| As we all know anime is a very wonderful thing to watch and discuss, which leads many of us to sites to rate such creations. Now we all have our tastes which change and differ based on genres, qualities, and personal preferences. However, I think there is one thing all MAL users should come together and agree on, and it is the fact that the length of the show should in fact matter. Let's look at a hypothetical example, if you watched 1 hour of good content, vs 100 hours of good content, it is safe to say that the 100 hours achieved more. Therefore we must sit and ask ourselves why some MAL users are so harsh on longers shows. I am not here to tell you what to rate and how to rate it, for me there are long shows I dont like hence I haven't completed them, however, for those of you who have completed very long shows and those shows have given you so much enjoyment, how can you give them mean scores ;( |
Mood_Booster said: that is quite a bananas reply there brother. The fact that life is on a clock is the reason why shows you've watched thousands of episodes woudl typically be people's favourties. Its the opposite. If a work can convey its messages and themes in 1 hour, its objectively better than a work that achieves the same in 10 hours. Unless you don't value your time (life). Life is on a clock. why is something better just because it finished faster? |
BestListMAL said: it's not automatically better but it's much less likely to be ruined by delaying the inevitable ending with lame plot twists and lazy writing. Why would you want to see something you love gradually waste away like a cancer patient?why is something better just because it finished faster? |
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| It's incredibly rare for long shows to be good, because most ideas simply don't need huge numbers of episodes in order to convey them. The sweet spot in general seems to be between 1 and 2 cours. |
logopolis said: yes most ideas don't, but if an idea is so good it keeps you watching for hundreds of episodes you have got to say that is a thing of beautyIt's incredibly rare for long shows to be good, because most ideas simply don't need huge numbers of episodes in order to convey them. The sweet spot in general seems to be between 1 and 2 cours. |
it's not automatically better but it's much less likely to be ruined by delaying the inevitable ending with lame plot twists and lazy writing. Why would you want to see something you love gradually waste away like a cancer patient? if it got as bad as you say, you wouldn't watch it, therefore it's length wouldn't be as long as its episode count, at least from your perspective. My rating system has all of this included, hence many users on this site consider me to have the best list (subjective to them of course). |
| Yeah I tend to enjoy long shows more, like most of my favorites are 40+ episodes. I like stuff where I get invested in the characters and long shows just have more time to do that. Though I wouldn't detract points from something for being short, a really good movie gets the same rating as a really good show in my book because they are both really good. Quantity isn't a determining factor in how good something is, (there are long shows that suck), but having more of something good is always nice. |
| no man, duration doesn't matter, one movie can be good for you and you can love it and one 100 episodes anime can feel like a chore, people want to finish them long shows because of personal reasons, we all love anime and why not continue something if you find at least something cool in it. I rated hunter x hunter a 3/10 because I disliked it but I was curious about the ending and wanted to see what the hell happens in the show. another thing, 1 hour of good content vs 100 hours of good content = same thing 87 episodes of attack on titan are the same as 90 minutes of megazone 23 for me, both achieved what they wanted in that specific amount of time needed |
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| The longer a show is the less likely it is to maintain a high quality. Your hypothetical of a 1 hour anime vs a 100 hour anime that are of equal average quality does favour the 100 hour anime as being a better anime because it was able to keep you engaged for that long and provide you with that much entertainment, however this does depend on what the show is and what it was hoping to achieve. I enjoyed Gegege no Kitarou (2018), and yet with its 97 episodes I only gave it 7/10, lower than a lot of shows much shorter than it. It was entertaining, but it didn't need to be that long. As a show that's meant to teach kids lessons it makes sense for it to air for 2 years to give kids adequate information, but it's not like every minute of it is necessary, in fact it could be as effective with 26 episodes if it managed its time better. A lot of the content is fairly repetitive and showcases minutia that the average viewer doesn't need to know. In contrast, Tsumiki no Ie is only 12 minutes long and I gave it an 8/10. It had a fairly simple goal in mind with a story to tell and it achieved everything it set out to. It would actually ruin the anime if it was much longer than it was. Even if more could have been fleshed out about the man or the world he lives in, it would get boring pretty quick if the anime dragged on for 90 minutes or a full 5 hour series, so it being short is a benefit. Another anime that comes to mind is Spice and Wolf, which has a fairly interesting setting with two good characters and a good enough plot that I found the first season really enjoyable, but when I got around to watching the second season I found it rather boring. I don't think the average quality deteriorated, it was functionally as good as the first without any inherent flaws, but it was more of the same. The novelty of the show was lost as more content was added to it. Some anime just have more available to show than others. There's great long anime like Aikatsu and FMAB that have a lot to tell and have the time to do it and there's short anime like The Embryo Develops Into A Fetus and Gokicha!! that never had much going for them and not only wouldn't benefit from extra time but don't even make good use of the time they have. There's plenty of the reverse as well, though, and I don't think there's any inherent correlation between length and quality, although the longer something is the better I have to expect it to be to even bother starting it. More content doesn't make something better if the show doesn't know what to do with it. You have shows like Naruto and Detective Conan that have a crazy amount of episodes just because they can and most of the content is irrelevant. It's harder to make a good long show than it is to make a good short show, which makes the good long show more impressive and a better experience overall, but it also means most long shows are bound to be of lower average quality just because there's more points of failure. |
zombie_pegasusJan 28, 2023 3:47 PM
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JKKH said: Major respect for liking long shows, thumbs up from meYeah I tend to enjoy long shows more, like most of my favorites are 40+ episodes. I like stuff where I get invested in the characters and long shows just have more time to do that. Though I wouldn't detract points from something for being short, a really good movie gets the same rating as a really good show in my book because they are both really good. Quantity isn't a determining factor in how good something is, (there are long shows that suck), but having more of something good is always nice. |
Catalano said: lets be real here, you love hxh, the fact u watched so many eps to see then end just proves it, im guessing ur friends hate it so u're pretending with them.no man, duration doesn't matter, one movie can be good for you and you can love it and one 100 episodes anime can feel like a chore, people want to finish them long shows because of personal reasons, we all love anime and why not continue something if you find at least something cool in it. I rated hunter x hunter a 3/10 because I disliked it but I was curious about the ending and wanted to see what the hell happens in the show. another thing, 1 hour of good content vs 100 hours of good content = same thing 87 episodes of attack on titan are the same as 90 minutes of megazone 23 for me, both achieved what they wanted in that specific amount of time needed |
BestListMAL said: yes most ideas don't, but if an idea is so good it keeps you watching for hundreds of episodes you have got to say that is a thing of beauty Well, the only thing I've watched hundreds of episodes of is Doctor Who, and that's because it changes the story every few weeks and the whole set-up every few years. "This month, it's feudal space vampires. Next month, it's a bunch of trapped banal slavers whose cargo used to be slavers themselves but anyway, it's about doing the right kind of nothing." |
| I wouldn't say that longer shows "achieve more", but it's true that keeping on entertaining for 100+ episodes is inherently harder than doing so for just 1 or 2 cours. I can still rate a long anime low because I enjoyed it less than anything I rated higher, if it were too painful to watch I would have dropped it without thinking twice. |
| Like others here, I value whether the whole anime can maintain that quality of storytelling. It's easier to do that with shorter things than longer things unless you have a good writer like Monster or Legend of the Galactic Heroes does. If I'd rate different parts of the anime differently (like when it has different story arc), than the rating I give it usually falls somewhere in between those two ratings. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| I like good shows, doesn't matter long or short. But Long shows have high chances of flaws but they also build up better characters and more emotional impact. Also no single cour anime made me feel like giving 10/10 as they cant build up that good characters and plot in that small time Bad long anime example : Fairy tail, Bleach Good long anime example : Gintama |
The_Bad_ShahJan 28, 2023 4:54 PM
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| There are 2 types of shows : The short is about 12 episodes. The long is about 24. |
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Felori said: Brilliant response, finally someone understands the importance of long animeszombie_pegasus said: More content doesn't make something better if the show doesn't know what to do with it. You have shows like Naruto and Detective Conan that have a crazy amount of episodes just because they can and most of the content is irrelevant. It's harder to make a good long show than it is to make a good short show, which makes the good long show more impressive and a better experience overall, but it also means most long shows are bound to be of lower average quality just because there's more points of failure. Comparing Naruto and Conan just shows that people don't understand episodic shows imo. Shows like Conan are meant to be watched in not-release-order, so you can just pick one episode (mostly) and go with it. I even think there is a lack of episodic shows in nowadays streaming platforms. I don't want to follow dozens of complex stories where I have to watch every episode of it. Ofc I do like some of these, but episodic shows outside of comedy / parody are rare now, especially in western media. The_Bad_Shah said: But Long shows have high chances of flaws but they also build up better characters and more emotional impact. Also no single cour anime made me feel like giving 10/10 as they cant build up that good characters and plot in that small time Yes, that's also the reason for me. I often get really attached to the characters in a long show, but most times I can't get attached on the same level to the characters of a show that only has 12 episodes. |
| You are right Legend of the Galactic Heroes and Monster are Objectively better than Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood |
| If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY |
| I disagree. 100 hours of content has way more room to do more than just good. it has all the time in the world to do great. it being longer leaves for way more top tier moments, the same way it leaves room for a lot more errors. so it's more than fair to judge an hour of good, and 100 hours of good the same. |
| Also available at: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA An AMV I that I spend way too much time on: A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
Faxtual_Ghoul said: actually I have seen FMAB twice which suggests there are more episodes to FMAB than the two shows that you mentioned. However Both FMAB and Monster are 10's and if I ever watch Galactic Heroes it would be a 10 as well.You are right Legend of the Galactic Heroes and Monster are Objectively better than Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood |
BestListMAL said: Therefore we must sit and ask ourselves why some MAL users are so harsh on longers shows. Because zoomers lack the attention span to watch anything that is longer than 12 episodes. Their brain is just melted from watching tiktok and youtube shorts all day. |
| honestly, you may be right, it's also awesome to see One Piece in your favourites. |
| I only hold the length of a show against it if it interferes with the story. Some shows are too short because it makes everything feel rushed, but some shows are too long because they drag things out and pad their runtime. Getting it just right goes a long way toward it being a 10/10. |
Felori said: zombie_pegasus said: More content doesn't make something better if the show doesn't know what to do with it. You have shows like Naruto and Detective Conan that have a crazy amount of episodes just because they can and most of the content is irrelevant. It's harder to make a good long show than it is to make a good short show, which makes the good long show more impressive and a better experience overall, but it also means most long shows are bound to be of lower average quality just because there's more points of failure. Comparing Naruto and Conan just shows that people don't understand episodic shows imo. Shows like Conan are meant to be watched in not-release-order, so you can just pick one episode (mostly) and go with it. I even think there is a lack of episodic shows in nowadays streaming platforms. I don't want to follow dozens of complex stories where I have to watch every episode of it. Ofc I do like some of these, but episodic shows outside of comedy / parody are rare now, especially in western media. The_Bad_Shah said: But Long shows have high chances of flaws but they also build up better characters and more emotional impact. Also no single cour anime made me feel like giving 10/10 as they cant build up that good characters and plot in that small time Yes, that's also the reason for me. I often get really attached to the characters in a long show, but most times I can't get attached on the same level to the characters of a show that only has 12 episodes. Just binge watch one at a time. Easy. |
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BestListMAL said: Mood_Booster said: that is quite a bananas reply there brother. The fact that life is on a clock is the reason why shows you've watched thousands of episodes woudl typically be people's favourties. Its the opposite. If a work can convey its messages and themes in 1 hour, its objectively better than a work that achieves the same in 10 hours. Unless you don't value your time (life). Life is on a clock. why is something better just because it finished faster? I kinda understand what they mean, not necessarily that the show needs to finish in an hour , but if it can convey those things in at least a couple episodes instead of screwing around for 12 episodes before getting to the point. |
"Get your tentacles off me or ill make calamari out of your manhood" -Mirai Nikki Dub |
| A lot of longer series I both like and dislike. I will use Naruto as an example, since this one has an entirely neutral score of 5/10 on my list. Naruto has the advantage in that it speaks of character development, while targeting an audience of children and tweens and not treating them like the idiots that a lot of Western production agencies think children are. A lot of anime can lay claim to that, but I will give credit where credit is due. The problem with Naruto is how bloated the runtime is for such a production, with a lot of filler, which could be better used for developing other elements, like the characters, who, outside of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and maybe Rock Lee, boil down to one or two words. In other words, my time was wasted, especially when compared to how Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist (specifically the 2003 version) handled this. Naruto also has the lack of being a sequel, which Dragon Ball Z had in order to develop some of the characters (though Z is inferior to the Original series in quite a few ways). Other series are worse than Naruto, like Naruto Shippuden (which makes worse use of ts runtime) and Bleach (which has more issues than I could concisely name). P.S: Watch Lan Mao, then get back to me whether it deserves a 10/10. |
| It's not easy to maintain audience engagement and interest the longer a show goes on. Sure, a few titles come to mind like Hunter x Hunter's 2011 reboot and Legend of the Galactic Heroes that show that skillful enough writing and creative direction can create an engaging series, even if it stretches for 100+ episodes. But in many instances I've seen titles stretch on for that long, the quality eventually takes a hit and many said titles in question are based on ongoing source material where filler arcs are often used to give time for the source material to push further ahead or slowing the story pacing way down to drag things out. Shounen battle titles like Bleach, Naruto, and Dragon Ball Z are rather notorious for this and has made me wary of dabbling into them nowadays. |
ggultra2764 said: filler arcs can be skipped, and even those who skipped them will still have spent almost 300 eps on Naruto Shippuuden and like 140 eps on NarutoIt's not easy to maintain audience engagement and interest the longer a show goes on. Sure, a few titles come to mind like Hunter x Hunter's 2011 reboot and Legend of the Galactic Heroes that show that skillful enough writing and creative direction can create an engaging series, even if it stretches for 100+ episodes. But in many instances I've seen titles stretch on for that long, the quality eventually takes a hit and many said titles in question are based on ongoing source material where filler arcs are often used to give time for the source material to push further ahead or slowing the story pacing way down to drag things out. Shounen battle titles like Bleach, Naruto, and Dragon Ball Z are rather notorious for this and has made me wary of dabbling into them nowadays. |
Pages_Pages said: I love all the Naruto characters.A lot of longer series I both like and dislike. I will use Naruto as an example, since this one has an entirely neutral score of 5/10 on my list. Naruto has the advantage in that it speaks of character development, while targeting an audience of children and tweens and not treating them like the idiots that a lot of Western production agencies think children are. A lot of anime can lay claim to that, but I will give credit where credit is due. The problem with Naruto is how bloated the runtime is for such a production, with a lot of filler, which could be better used for developing other elements, like the characters, who, outside of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and maybe Rock Lee, boil down to one or two words. In other words, my time was wasted, especially when compared to how Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist (specifically the 2003 version) handled this. Naruto also has the lack of being a sequel, which Dragon Ball Z had in order to develop some of the characters (though Z is inferior to the Original series in quite a few ways). Other series are worse than Naruto, like Naruto Shippuden (which makes worse use of ts runtime) and Bleach (which has more issues than I could concisely name). P.S: Watch Lan Mao, then get back to me whether it deserves a 10/10. and your arguement is silly, many have tried to make it telling me to watch a terrible show with thousands of episodes, but my rating system is based on how many I've seen. if a long show is bad and I end up dropping after 2 episodes, it would be bottom of my list. whereas if a short show gets rewatched enough times it could be top of my list. |
NoblesseEssentia said: Anime is made to entertain, so if someone is entertaining for 100 episodes, it's better than something that can only entertain for 5You're arguing about the most pointless thing on this website. It never is about 100 hours of good content vs 1 hr of good content. It is about having a fruitful experience. Cutting content worsens the experience and adding fillers does the same most of the time. Most of the long-running series are just a product of greed and money grubbing habits of studios. Giving them a low score makes sense to me. |
BestListMAL said: I see what you are saying, however, what if there is a massive drop in quality over time. Some people pointed this out with the time skip in One Piece. (I stopped watching after 4K!DS lost the rights, could never get into the actual "Japanese version" of the series).Pages_Pages said: I love all the Naruto characters.A lot of longer series I both like and dislike. I will use Naruto as an example, since this one has an entirely neutral score of 5/10 on my list. Naruto has the advantage in that it speaks of character development, while targeting an audience of children and tweens and not treating them like the idiots that a lot of Western production agencies think children are. A lot of anime can lay claim to that, but I will give credit where credit is due. The problem with Naruto is how bloated the runtime is for such a production, with a lot of filler, which could be better used for developing other elements, like the characters, who, outside of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and maybe Rock Lee, boil down to one or two words. In other words, my time was wasted, especially when compared to how Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist (specifically the 2003 version) handled this. Naruto also has the lack of being a sequel, which Dragon Ball Z had in order to develop some of the characters (though Z is inferior to the Original series in quite a few ways). Other series are worse than Naruto, like Naruto Shippuden (which makes worse use of ts runtime) and Bleach (which has more issues than I could concisely name). P.S: Watch Lan Mao, then get back to me whether it deserves a 10/10. and your arguement is silly, many have tried to make it telling me to watch a terrible show with thousands of episodes, but my rating system is based on how many I've seen. if a long show is bad and I end up dropping after 2 episodes, it would be bottom of my list. whereas if a short show gets rewatched enough times it could be top of my list. |
BestListMAL said: filler arcs can be skipped, and even those who skipped them will still have spent almost 300 eps on Naruto Shippuuden and like 140 eps on Naruto Thing is there are some of us that are completionists and want to usually complete a full series for bragging rights, myself included. Even disregarding that, the slow pacing found in the mentioned shounen battle anime is a personal pet peeve of mine since the series is deliberately dragging itself out and resulting in the advancement of the story dragging to a halt. It's one thing to have slow pacing in a series to have the audience take in events or explore more to its world and characters. It's another if this is only being done to drag the series length out. |
ggultra2764 said: if the pacing was so bad, you wouldn't have been watching, calling yourself a "completionist" just to hide the fact you're a huge One Piece fan from your elitist friends is just silly.BestListMAL said: filler arcs can be skipped, and even those who skipped them will still have spent almost 300 eps on Naruto Shippuuden and like 140 eps on Naruto Thing is there are some of us that are completionists and want to usually complete a full series for bragging rights, myself included. Even disregarding that, the slow pacing found in the mentioned shounen battle anime is a personal pet peeve of mine since the series is deliberately dragging itself out and resulting in the advancement of the story dragging to a halt. It's one thing to have slow pacing in a series to have the audience take in events or explore more to its world and characters. It's another if this is only being done to drag the series length out. |
BestListMAL said: if the pacing was so bad, you wouldn't have been watching, calling yourself a "completionist" just to hide the fact you're a huge One Piece fan from your elitist friends is just silly. First off, cut it with the assumptions. You don't know me personally. So don't act as if you know me personally or think you somehow know better than me. You don't see me jumping the gun on making assumptions about you when I hardly even know you from online? Second, I was younger with more spare time on my hands to dabble into titles that long years ago as I've been an anime fan since the 2000s. Nowadays, I don't have as much time and patience to dabble into anything as ludicrously long like One Piece or Detective Conan as it would take me months or even well over a year to get current on titles that long, and that's asking way too much of those who wouldn't have that level of time and patience for it. And third, realize that not everyone has your opinion on enjoying and dabbling into titles hundreds of episodes long as those mentioned titles. I don't care if it's something you like and more power to you if you have that level of patience and commitment for it. But quit attempting to push your views on others if they're opposite of what you believe in as far as enjoyment of long titles go. |
ateks said: BestListMAL said: Therefore we must sit and ask ourselves why some MAL users are so harsh on longers shows. Because zoomers lack the attention span to watch anything that is longer than 12 episodes. Their brain is just melted from watching tiktok and youtube shorts all day. Pretty much this. In fact I'd dare to go even further and say that before this decade ends, a 12-episode series will already be too much for them to bear, and 2-minutes long anime will have become the new golden standard. |
BestListMAL said: But how do you account for those 100 episodes being lumped together with 900 torture devices?NoblesseEssentia said: Anime is made to entertain, so if someone is entertaining for 100 episodes, it's better than something that can only entertain for 5You're arguing about the most pointless thing on this website. It never is about 100 hours of good content vs 1 hr of good content. It is about having a fruitful experience. Cutting content worsens the experience and adding fillers does the same most of the time. Most of the long-running series are just a product of greed and money grubbing habits of studios. Giving them a low score makes sense to me. |
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JaniSIr said: you wouldn't have watched that many bad episodes as u would have dropped itBut how do you account for those 100 episodes being lumped together with 900 torture devices? |
| Shows that are longer are normally better than shows that are shorter. Largerly due to richer cast, settings, lore, better twists and etc. It also tends to filter out the haters because realistically people are not going to spend a lot of time hate watching a show, and it is super obvious when someone is smearing something they don't even watch. Cyberpunk edgerunners, lycoris, vivy are definitely not up to par wiht Berserk Golden Age Arc. The Naruto, Bleach, Dragon Ball, SAO, DAL, Danmachi haters are more or less gone now since they likely moved on to other shows, and don't have the fuel to criticize a show anymore if they are not up to date. People need to realize a massive amount of people on anime forums are trolls, often npcs looking to shove a political agenda. Common stupid argument is watched season 1, episode 1, first 3 episodes hated it 1/10 |
icefirestone23Jan 29, 2023 4:27 PM
BestListMAL said: That's a nice theory, but why people watch a show isn't that simple. For example you can't really judge everything immediately, Monster was set up on a mystery, and while curiosity got me through the horrible pacing, and there were some actually good side plots in there, the core plot messed up the landing so hard, that it retroactively ruined previous arcs, because it has been revealed that they were building up to nothing. JaniSIr said: you wouldn't have watched that many bad episodes as u would have dropped itBut how do you account for those 100 episodes being lumped together with 900 torture devices? |
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JaniSIr said: You just summed up Higurashi. 1st season, the "mystery arc" reeled me in but the second season, the "answer arc" was an absolute travesty. Sometimes it's just not apparent a show is bad until the last few episodes.That's a nice theory, but why people watch a show isn't that simple. For example you can't really judge everything immediately, Monster was set up on a mystery, and while curiosity got me through the horrible pacing, and there were some actually good side plots in there, the core plot messed up the landing so hard, that it retroactively ruined previous arcs, because it has been revealed that they were building up to nothing. |
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epidemia78 said: I just dropped that show because after 8 episodes I realized I watched the same rather lame story twice, and I don't want to watch it a third time. JaniSIr said: You just summed up Higurashi. 1st season, the "mystery arc" reeled me in but the second season, the "answer arc" was an absolute travesty. Sometimes it's just not apparent a show is bad until the last few episodes.That's a nice theory, but why people watch a show isn't that simple. For example you can't really judge everything immediately, Monster was set up on a mystery, and while curiosity got me through the horrible pacing, and there were some actually good side plots in there, the core plot messed up the landing so hard, that it retroactively ruined previous arcs, because it has been revealed that they were building up to nothing. |
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El001 said: if you wanna play pretend and act like you hate the show you watched 100 eps of, be my guest, im just sitting here in reality, knowing you love them.Some people (including myself for the most part) force themselves to complete shows they dislike, & some people don't rate based on just enjoyment. |
BestListMAL said: El001 said: if you wanna play pretend and act like you hate the show you watched 100 eps of, be my guest, im just sitting here in reality, knowing you love them.Some people (including myself for the most part) force themselves to complete shows they dislike, & some people don't rate based on just enjoyment. Do you know what's worse than a n anime so bad, you can't even finish an episode of it? An anime that manages to trick you into wasting your time. Bonus point if it's popular, so all of the fans will attack you for not liking their thing. Basically not dropping Re:Zero after the first arc was a mistake, but I couldn't have known it doesn't have anything more to it than that. |
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Do you know what's worse than a n anime so bad, you can't even finish an episode of it? An anime that manages to trick you into wasting your time. Bonus point if it's popular, so all of the fans will attack you for not liking their thing. Basically not dropping Re:Zero after the first arc was a mistake, but I couldn't have known it doesn't have anything more to it than that. |
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