Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Episode 15 Discussion

Awesomeness_1307 said:


So it's wrong to kill off the Eldians, but it's perfectly fine for everyone else to die except the Eldians? Why is Marley the demon nation here? Udo clearly says in episode 4 that Eldians are treated way worse around the world, compared to Liberio. Marley is just feared around the world because of the Power of the Titans, but that is changing very soon, with the development of advanced planes and bombs and guns in the world of AoT. Is Marley evil because it wants the founding titan? Marley just wants that because of how focussed it was on the Titans, the world caught up to them in terms of technology, and will soon surpass them. The Founder will just make the world fear them and make their enemies stay away from them, which is the exact situation with Paradis right now.


We don't really know if Marley is a dictatorship or a democracy, but Paradis is definitely a monarchy. So, why is there a good nation or a bad nation? Every nation just wants to survive.

Mercury-Fred said:

It was stated that Marley using titans for the sake of imperialistic purposes, to conquer nations. It wad stated by Yelena and Nicolo, there's literally a reason why Marley eventhough theyre strong politically their relationship with other countries are hostile. Atleast without Tybur.

Raisa9202 said:
So, i dont get tge fact that, why did zeke attacked eldians at the first place, if he wanted to protect eldians... I dont get that🙂 could somebody explain

Raisa9202 said:
So, i dont get the fact that, why did zeke attacked eldians at the first place, if he wanted to protect eldians... I dont get that🙂 could somebody explain

Catalano said:
this is the flashback I din't want and I din't care about, this changes nothing. Zeke is just a coward, like I said in earlier episode threads, the eldians living in interment camps lost their pride as humans, if you have enemies who want to kill you, kill them yourself. Grischa was a true hero and Zeke was supposed to be the eldians' savior, a normal eldian kid would have hated the marleyans, would want to get revenge and his father taught him about the true history but Zeke wants to live a comfy life and wants to die. Then he's projecting his insecurities on other people, "everyone should die because I want to die!" what an idiot, he even betrayed his parents in order to survive and I thought it was because of some master plan to free the eldians.

The euthanasia plan makes no sense, if the Founder can alter the bodies to make them not have children, it can also modify it to be strong and kill their enemies. If I had the Founder I would make all eldians kill anything that is not eldian. Zeke says he will save the world and the unborn eldians but it's false, it's a tough world, you don't have to say sorry to anyone for your sins in the past, it's kill or be killed and today it's Marley which is the demon nation that destroys the world, it's Marley the enemy we must eliminate. I say the Rumbling makes perfect sense, have Historia cooperate with Eren, transform eldians into titans and destroy the world, keep 1000 or so eldians in Paradis, then populate the world with eldians.

I am sure Eren doesn't want to kill all eldians, he just said that to convince Zeke. Also, if Zeke says he's the savior of the world, why didn't he try to get in touch with Eren in Shiganshina? or eat Eren to get the Founder, why does he cooperate with Yelena, who cares about other nations if he will die when the euthanasia plan succeeds, sorry but Zeke is an absolute idiot. Oh and Xaver is an imbecile too, how could he have a family like that and why wasn't he sent to Paradis after they found out he lied about being an eldian.

I am very disappointed in all this, the attack on Marley was a 10/10, now all this shit is just annoying, too many incompetents in Paradis and too many goody-two-shoes acting like they have it all sorted out. Zeke's ideology is a mistake.

Awesomeness_1307 said:
I need help understanding Grisha's actions and some of Zeke's words. If any of the answers to my questions are manga spoilers, please do not spoil and let me know that it is answered later. I will delete my comment if it is.

He got ratted out by Zeke about his involvement with the Eldian restorationists, then received the Attack Titan from the Owl. After that, he somehow made his way to Wall Maria, where he was greeted by Keith Shadis.

Upon meeting Keith, it seems like Grisha has lost all of his memories, including the fact that he comes from Liberio, and possesses the Attack Titan, and does not realise that he's living with the so called 'Eldian island devils'. He also marries Carla Yeager. But at some point, he definitely recovers his memories, because he writes 3 books about his past, the Titans, and the world beyond, and stores them in the basement. At what point does he recover his memories?

Also, on the day of the fall of Wall Maria, he apparently made his way to the Reiss chapel, and killed off everyone there except Rod Reiss, and stole the Founding Titan from Freida. Why did he wait so long to do that? What was his motivation inside the walls? It does not seem like he treated Eren as harshly as he treated Zeke.

At some point, when Grisha gets back his memories, why does he not immediately go to retrieve the Founder? That seems to be a vital requirement for the Eldian restorationists. Why does he wait till the day Wall Maria falls? After stealing the Founder, he gives both the Attack and the Founder to his son, Eren. Why? Was he nearing the end of his 13 years?

Also, why does Zeke say to Eren that he's been brainwashed by his father? I presume that according to Zeke, Eren does not know the truth of the world because he hasn't reached the basement yet. In which case, how has Eren been brainwashed? All he knew about his dad at that point is that he murdered the Reiss family and stole the Founder. But even if Zeke thinks that Eren knows the truth of the world, and if Zeke thinks that his father somehow made Eren into an Eldian restorationist as well, how is that brainwashing?

Reiner_undieable said:
Yup aot is not for everyone, god I hate the amount of people that misunderstood his character,actions and plan, I love how each character has its own ideology depending on its environment, even if you don't agree with zeke's plan (I don't agree with it too) but you should admit it is a brilliant solution and really fit zeke character, and there is people saying his plan is stupid like what? They probably didn't understand it like this method is used in the real world how would you say it is stupid, this is top5 aot ep and zeke might just be my favorite character.

cAbaddon said:


Zeke is having the whole world in consideration for this plan, not just the eldians, so for him is about resolving the situation with the less overall suffering, so enabling the full rumbling doesn't make sense. At the end is the plan of an extremely damaged individual.

As you say, Zeke doesn't know for sure yet if Eren is ok with his plan, and Eren is the one who will decide what to do, and before that they have to take control of Paradis, do the partial rumbling, and have Historia ready for inheriting the beast titan.

At the end it all depends on Eren, and we will know when his point of view is revealed.

Reiner_undieable said:
this guy missed the whole point of the show he looks like a brainwashed eldian lol,
This show being a mainstream is a problem

YMN_KAT said:
Totally natural for people to have different opinions about different characters. What I don't get is those who claim the writing is terrible, unlike anything they've seen before. I mean if it was me, I would just not watch it anymore; let alone go into the discussions to argue with people who are passionate about it.

cAbaddon said:

are you referring to me or the user I quoted?
the user I quoted I suppose? lol

Catalano said:
Grischa was a true hero and Zeke was supposed to be the eldians' savior, a normal eldian kid would have hated the marleyans, would want to get revenge and his father taught him about the true history but Zeke wants to live a comfy life and wants to die.

Awesomeness_1307 said:

Upon meeting Keith, it seems like Grisha has lost all of his memories, including the fact that he comes from Liberio, and possesses the Attack Titan, and does not realise that he's living with the so called 'Eldian island devils'. He also marries Carla Yeager. But at some point, he definitely recovers his memories, because he writes 3 books about his past, the Titans, and the world beyond, and stores them in the basement. At what point does he recover his memories?

Thyriad-oPPailov said:
So the next episode is the last of everything? There won't be final season number two? If so then this is going to be weak short and stupid ending, but at least everyone will die and that is happy ending for me.

tutsui said:
We got to see zekes backstory in his point of view and not gonna lie if I was in his position I would’ve done the exact same thing it was either his parents, grandparents and him got taken by Marley or if he snitched it’ll be just his parents I don’t know about you but i would choose to save my grandparents and me instead of letting us all get taken by Marley BUT the euthanasia plan of Zeke and Eren is straight up BS in my opinion, I don’t think they should kill of they’re whole race to stop they’re suffering if anything I would rather kill of the rest of the world then my own people to be honest. Anyways tho it just seems like I can’t pick a side cant wait to see what part 2 brings for us if one happens

Catalano said:

An eldian (like Zeke) killing off all eldians is wrong but another nation killing off the eldians is "survival of the fittest" like I said above. Marley destroyed Eldia because it was stronger but the eldians don't deserve to die off, you have to fight to survive.

PrimeX said:
Holy fuck how? How is this ending in the next episode? Will there be a conclusion? Man that ending's going to suck ass I just know it. There's no way they're going to wrap everything up in the next episode. Btw, great episode.

NextUniverse said:
Great episode, so sad Zeke had probably top 10 worst childhood's I have seen. The dude just wanted a normal childhood. F.

That ending explosion got Levi pretty good damn, he do be strong tho, I believe in my man.

Patosaurus72 said:
I watched ep 14 and 15 for the first time back to back here.
I'm all for zeke and erens plan, obviously I'm against what is essentially genocide but I think it shakes things up and makes sense for the characters. Especially for eren, he never cared about freedom for eldians, he cared about freedom for the whole world from titans.

Harem_lover94 said:


I think the whole episode was a complete waste. Here we are waiting for something to happen, and we got a big fat nothing. Yes EVERYBODY had a shit past in AOT, we GET IT. Now can we do something about the story?

puppetmazter said:
Manga readers, so clarifications please:

1. If Eren and Zeke were face to face in that hospital, why didnt they use their plan right then? Do they have to be in Paradis for the mass sterilization?

2. And why didnt Zeke share his plans with Marley? I assume bc they wouldnt go along with that plan? Maybe bc they want to keep their Titans for war purposes and they need Eldians to do their bidding?
I dont really get why Zeke faked is death and ran off.

3. Since Zeke is royalty, does that mean hes related to the queen of Paradis? (forgot her name, the blonde girl).

4. Why are the Ackermanns so strong? Was that revealed yet? Could they've been enhanced by the founding titan? Can they become titans themselves?

Thanks in advance