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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- I liked the part where Goku says that if Moro was a good guy and have done some training, he would have liked fighting against him. Even though Moro got Merus power, he never did any training, and the power of angels is way too big so... Goku's way of giving everyone an opportunity is getting back at him. What is he gonna do next? |
DorayakisamaOct 20, 2020 9:28 AM
| This was by far one of the most frustrating chapters I’ve ever read in my life. Goku has him on the verge of defeat not once , but twice and fails to finish him off. Just so fucking stupid man come on now, Goku. Now Vegeta will come save the day |
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| lol at Goku making a mistake again he is too forgiving on evil people now Moro is now merge with the planet Earth so the if he kills Moro then Earth is destroyed too huh but the drawings of the fight are awesome though wow Ultra Instinct is the epitome of rule of cool i also like that info that you need training in order for your body to use Ultra Instinct so you cannot simply copy that technique because you will implode |
| Made me think of the figh between Cell and Gohan. |
| YT: Gaming (gw2,...), cons and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/Vercammen312 Monster girls club card: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=27137 See profile for exemples. |
| Same expression as Gohan back then xD And well, Toriyama again, rehashing many, many aspects of older fights. It's still entertaining, but a bit tough on a monthly basis. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| As soon as I saw Krillin with the bag of Senzu Beans I knew exactly how this was gonna play out. Moro is now also pulling the Cell Nuke card. Now all we need is for Vegeta to use Instant Transmission to teleport Moro to King Kai's planet. |
| Man goku is raw af. |
| well i wasn't expecting that he could merge with the planet... and ive no idea how can he be defeated now (unless Whis joins the fight with his reality warping powers) |
 |
| some fans are saying Vegeta can split Moro and Earth via his Spirit Fission technique so ye that can work |
| U.N.B.E.L.I.E.V.A.B.L.E Goku I mean I felt like pulling my hair out throughout this chapter. Does this man ever learn from his past?! Can't wait to see how Moro gets taken care off here. |
| "You can't spell slaughter without laughter". |
| I remember a lot of people complaining about Goku in this chapter due to spoilers leaking on twitter. I didn't check what the spoilers were but I figured that it had to do with Goku sparing Moro and that backfiring, which is something that I wouldn't have an issue with but having read the chapter, I have zero issue with this. Few things to note . . . I. Goku's willingness to spare his enemies has been a character habit for ages, and the arc went out of it's way to set-up for this by having him explore this mentality earlier with Merus. I'm not going to criticize an arc for paying off stuff they've established, nor am I going to criticize the story for having Goku act in character. II. Goku giving Merus a Senzu Bean is something I might've taken issue with but it was made clear very quickly that even fully healed, Goku was far above Moro and he knew it. There was no threat in healing Moro because Moro was nothing to him. The second time was a bit more suspect but again, he already proved that he was far above him so there was no threat, and not even Beerus realized he had copied Merus' ability and the arm was still around, so Goku not knowing about it makes sense. And again, Goku was clearly stronger. III. When Whis told Goku to finish him off, Goku moved into action basically immediately. Moro became the planet before Goku could finish him off. Arguably he got distracted by Moro's obvious scheming, but that's fair enough, and hell if Goku killed him he may have finished off the planet. All of this combines to make it clear that Goku wasn't really being stupid here. Selfish and kind of reckless but he had a full grasp on the situation, and reacted in character and accordingly. I like it. But most importantly . . . IV. The alternative to this is Goku saving the day unceremoniously without any kind of dramatic conflict. The Moro arc has been easily my favourite arc of Super thus far but if it really ended with Goku just killing Moro here after just decimating him, it probably would've dropped down a peg or two. For one big reason, that they built up Vegeta's own character arc a great deal before this and him not playing a role in the ending would've been a gigantic waste. Now, Vegeta has the perfect opportunity to save the day here because his ability should be able to separate Moro from the planet. It's been stated by Vegeta and Piccolo that his new ability allows him to undo fusions, so it's only fitting that his ability could separate Moro from the planet. |
| finish him off vegeta, also someone hold goku down so he doesnt try to give moro another senzu bean |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
Terrestrious said: I remember a lot of people complaining about Goku in this chapter due to spoilers leaking on twitter. I didn't check what the spoilers were but I figured that it had to do with Goku sparing Moro and that backfiring, which is something that I wouldn't have an issue with but having read the chapter, I have zero issue with this. Few things to note . . . I. Goku's willingness to spare his enemies has been a character habit for ages, and the arc went out of it's way to set-up for this by having him explore this mentality earlier with Merus. I'm not going to criticize an arc for paying off stuff they've established, nor am I going to criticize the story for having Goku act in character. II. Goku giving Merus a Senzu Bean is something I might've taken issue with but it was made clear very quickly that even fully healed, Goku was far above Moro and he knew it. There was no threat in healing Moro because Moro was nothing to him. The second time was a bit more suspect but again, he already proved that he was far above him so there was no threat, and not even Beerus realized he had copied Merus' ability and the arm was still around, so Goku not knowing about it makes sense. And again, Goku was clearly stronger. III. When Whis told Goku to finish him off, Goku moved into action basically immediately. Moro became the planet before Goku could finish him off. Arguably he got distracted by Moro's obvious scheming, but that's fair enough, and hell if Goku killed him he may have finished off the planet. All of this combines to make it clear that Goku wasn't really being stupid here. Selfish and kind of reckless but he had a full grasp on the situation, and reacted in character and accordingly. I like it. But most importantly . . . IV. The alternative to this is Goku saving the day unceremoniously without any kind of dramatic conflict. The Moro arc has been easily my favourite arc of Super thus far but if it really ended with Goku just killing Moro here after just decimating him, it probably would've dropped down a peg or two. For one big reason, that they built up Vegeta's own character arc a great deal before this and him not playing a role in the ending would've been a gigantic waste. Now, Vegeta has the perfect opportunity to save the day here because his ability should be able to separate Moro from the planet. It's been stated by Vegeta and Piccolo that his new ability allows him to undo fusions, so it's only fitting that his ability could separate Moro from the planet. Finally someone with a brain |
SD_CV said: Made me think of the figh between Cell and Gohan. As it should. They're very much purposely playing the nostalgia card, hoping we don't get angry at them for how the story is currently going. And it's definitely not. A lot of people are than just a little frustrated, and everyone is hoping that the next arc (possibly starting in December), shows that Goku receives consequences for his actions this arc and that Merus doesn't just reappear or his sacrifice is belittled in any way. |
| I reject your reality, and substitute my own. |
| What a joke. This arc started really good, but now it's more like a bad joke. Old themes like the one back from Cell vs. Gohan; Goku's stupidity surpassing even his ability to use MUI; Vegeta still being a puppet whose only role in the end is to lie somewhere beaten up badly. The best solution for defeating Moro would've been just performing a fusion dance to bring back Gogeta and finish it, but okay, I understand that Goku with Mastered Ultra Instinct is a thing so he had to land a finishing blow for another time. So why he did not? The fight was prolonged in one of the most dumb ways in the entire series. Bah, and to think there are still people complaining about how Dragon Ball GT had too much Goku and weird fights. |
| this is why Gogeta is the best. He actually gets the job done |
| Goku trying to turn a bad guy to the good side it's a cliche, something we've seen too many times, we already knew it was going to happen but I, at least, was hoping wouldn't happen. Same for the cornered evil guy that does an extreme/very dangerous move like auto-destruction with the planet etc. Freaking boring, predictable and useless for the quality of the manga. ANYWAY I liked the action scenes and the drawings overall I can't say I disliked the chapter. 3/5, ok. |
| ffs this is just the cell saga but the villain has a different name |
| Muscular girls connoisseur. |
| dear Goku, what the fuck |
Tempus36 said: Nope.The fact that Moro was clearly weaker than Goku DOES NOT make this any less stupid decision on Goku's part. Let's see who else was clearly stronger than the villain, was screwing around and it bit him in the ass. 1. Gohan vs Cell-> was Gohan SSJ2 stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell? Oh yeah. Did this matter when the Cell threw a fit and decided to blow himself up? Nope. 2. Frieza vs Goku (Super) -> Goku tries to spare Frieza AGAIN and gets shot in the back for the trouble, if not for Vegeta he would be dead. 3. Frieza vs Vegeta (Super) -> Vegeta takes his sweet time finishing Frieza off and the latter decided to screw them over and blow up the planet. If not for the Whis and his time rewind ability the Earth would be gone. There is absolutely nothing stopping Moro from pulling Frieza-like stunt again and just destroying planet...which is basically what happened in this chapter in the sense that either he wins or planet is destroyed. Hence why I claimed Goku was still acting recklessly because of course Moro could've done something, though I hardly doubt anyone saw him fusing with the planet. And while I know Goku was present for all those instances and that your only point is to explain the history of this backfiring which Goku should be aware of, it's worth noting that he's only culpable in one of those instances you mentioned. And in said incident, Goku was taken down due to a third party. I can't actually remember if Goku was aware of Sorbet being there at all or not but he knows Moro is the only antagonist there. Even if he wasn't, with how Ultra Instinct functions it shouldn't matter, as his body would just naturally react in time to dodge the surprise laser. But the main point here, is a repeat of the Sorbet incident wouldn't be possible, since they explicitly knew Moro was the only one villain to contend with. Context and circumstance matter. As for the third situation, if anything that's in favour of Goku since Whis is still there and could possibly rewind time again if Moro did go to blow up the planet route as he already did it once over. And in regards to the first example, Goku did urge Gohan to finish up Cell beforehand, so what's the difference. It could simply be because he wasn't in the driver's seat, since in Cell he was aware he was weaker thus unable to indulge in his selfish desires whereas now he's likely surpassed Beerus in power (at least, Beerus wasn't able to achieve Ultra Instinct). It could be that Goku also understood Cell's capabilities more so than he did with Moro, like Cell's zenkai and regenerative abilities whereas there's no way the possibility of Moro fusing with the planet was something he could've reasonably predicted, so I'm not going to criticize Goku for not seeing this specific outcome. Not at all saying that Goku is blameless here but I also want to know that Moro destroying the planet would've been in conflict with his goal of being a world eater though backed into a corner anything could've happened. Still, I don't think it's fair to say Goku didn't size up the character because it seemed pretty clear to me that Goku fully expected Moro to attack him after eating the Senzu Bean. There's no visible change or reaction on his face, it was likely an attempt on his part to maybe convince Moro to agree to the whole recapture thing but fully asserting just how much of a gap there was. Whereas the hand thing surprised him but again, that didn't cause him any really worry because Goku was able to size up quickly that Moro wasn't going to be capable of utilizing the power. I can see the argument that that should've tipped off Goku that Moro had more cards up his sleeve as being fair, but he still displayed a keen battle sense. and I'm not going to disregard. And like I said, he acted accordingly when Whis told him to finish it off. Which on the note of Goku's battle sense, and this is totally pedantic since I get it's not the point you're making but Moro clearly being weaker does make it less stupid. Like, when Goku gave Moro a senzu bean if Moro's punch was just able to kill Goku, then Goku giving him a Senzu Bean would've been a far worse decision. I can see the argument for it still being stupid, but not being less stupid. The one where Goku does it, fully knowing how weak Moro is and knowing that Moro will just try and cheap shot him afterward at least displays that Goku has a good grasp on both their battle levels and on Moro's character, same for him knowing that Moro hasn't trained. I will also say, a theme with a lot of people is that Goku's not learning his lessons, you specifically pointed out several instances that should've tipped off Goku to just immediately finish Moro off but again, I don't think this is super fair. For one thing, I do want to note that he was not willing to let Moro go free, like he was with Frieza, it was only you'll be spared if you return to prison. Which arguably isn't much but it is a distinction I want to point out, since he was just going to let Frieza go in F. But furthermore, I think it's disingenuous to act like there isn't already a history of this working out to their benefit. I understand those examples have been less frequent as the series grows on, all the examples you listed come after many of the positive examples but the series would've ended at Raditz if Goku didn't heal Piccolo and let him off scot free. If he didn't make Krillin spare Vegeta things would've been way worse off. And when he spared Frieza at the end of Namek that didn't really backfire on him. The last blast he sent after Frieza tried to kill him didn't finish Frieza off anyway, so it's likely he would've came to Earth anyway like the cockroach he is until Trunks takes over. So that's just further elaboration to why I'm not calling this a stupid decision, just a selfish and reckless one. Maybe there's no difference between a stupid decision and a reckless one for most people but there certainly is for me. |
| Yeah this was dumb, really, really dumb. I hate the trope of the hero sparing the villain only for it to backfire, and this was no exception, Goku made so many mistakes and had several opportunities to fix em, but nope, brings this arc down from an 8/10 to a 7, unfortunate |
| It's so funny looking at these threads and seeing people hate on story beats that are making Dragon Ball the very thing it is. Goku is being Goku, the storyline is going through it's typical dramatic beats. Sure, this isn't 'amazing writing', but it's the thing we should be here for. How lame of an ending would it be if Goku just blasted the guy at that point? |
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