| recently for the past few years, I've seen an influx of Shounen and fan service filled anime. I don't read manga. I aware of much better manga that isn't getting adapted should we switch gears? As to why I don't read manga simple reading is lame. UPDATE I don't have the luxury to watch and read anime so I choose watching anime. |
FierrzaSep 8, 2020 2:18 PM
Fierrza said: As to why I don't read manga simple reading is lame. This guy gets it. On topic: if not for shounen anime wouldn't be popular in the west. Most weebs grew up watching DBZ and other shounen shit when they were kids. |
Fierrza said: recently you mean in the past 35 years and no I don't think they ruin anything but that's a matter of taste. Even though they are probably the minority there are still tons of non shonen anime without any erotic fan service for people who aren't into those things. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| How do you know the unadapted manga is better if you don't read manga :thinking: |
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| Not really . Bad anime is bad . Good anime is good . Bad anime does not ruin good anime. Besides shonen isnt even bad by default. It aims for a younger demographic but that is hardly ruining anything else. It's also a big contributor to animes popularity. A lot of people start out watching anime with shonen As for fanservice it's much of the same. Bad anime with bad fanservice are bad but don't ruin other anime. Besides sexual things can often be used as great jokes. "Fanservice" isn't actually always fanservice |
| No way. Fan service is what keeping anime alive. There's this thing " When a manga loses popularity or about to be axed, female characters gets sexier". |
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| You're 16 stop pretending you have taste |
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Mirai said: How do you know the unadapted manga is better if you don't read manga :thinking: Its simple I read the back cover but don't read it. is it that hard to comprehend I don't have all the time in the world to read manga and watch anime is one or the other |
Kaasfondue said: You're 16 stop pretending you have taste Not sure why people think age is a factor, Its what you have watched and what you have learned, if your next insult is I haven't watched enough well I haven't added them all, and some were so bad I won't even acknowledge I watched them. you gave My Hero a 9 that puts u under me I won't respond to you anymore sorry. |
CuteAssTiger said: Not really . Bad anime is bad . Good anime is good . Bad anime does not ruin good anime. Besides shonen isnt even bad by default. It aims for a younger demographic but that is hardly ruining anything else. It's also a big contributor to animes popularity. A lot of people start out watching anime with shonen As for fanservice it's much of the same. Bad anime with bad fanservice are bad but don't ruin other anime. Besides sexual things can often be used as great jokes. "Fanservice" isn't actually always fanservice we have grown men and women watching shonen hell you can blame a kid for watching it but when we have grown men and women watching that's saying something. |
| I don't think Shounen shows themselves are ruining anime but I think the Shounen fanbase is with its very toxic behavior some communities are great for example "Claymore" I've been enjoying my interactions with the fanbase while reading as for fan service anime......... tits... |
| I see dead people |
AbsoluteShiro said: Always remember, anime is still a business. Even if you did a great story it's still possible for it to be sweeped under the rug, meaning no profit is made out of it; which only leads studios to think it isn't worth to take the risk, so the common thing you see is something the vast majority likes (even if they don't watch anime regularly): Shounen. Fan Service is a whole other thing, it can come from a simple panty shot that doesn't break the seriousness of a situation, or a simple suggestive dialogue so you can't really say Fan Service is ruining anime. I know the only way to stop this is by demanding change but unfortunately, people just sit back and accept it. |
| I would say that Shounens make anime fameous and its should be good thing, without Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece, AOT, HxH, FMAB and we can name them endlessly it wouldn't be the same. I don't mind fanservice, but forced fanservice its just cringe for me and about 80% of fanservice in anime is forced so answer yourself. Also for me Shounen dosen't mean a poor storyline like these best shounens apart of action and fights have one of the greatest stories around in anime. |
ReegrezSNKSep 8, 2020 2:11 PM
| Shounen and fan service have always been around and pretty prominent, it's just that anime is a lot more accessible and we can see everything being put out as opposed to just like the two things that get english releases on VHS. Fierrza said: we have grown men and women watching shonen hell you can blame a kid for watching it but when we have grown men and women watching that's saying something. What happened to age not being a factor? |
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Chro0oIsAWeeb said: I don't think Shounen shows themselves are ruining anime but I think the Shounen fanbase is with its very toxic behavior some communities are great for example "Claymore" I've been enjoying my interactions with the fanbase while reading as for fan service anime......... tits... I never thought of that I can't blame the entire shounen genre for the anime we have. huh never thought that I think that's the real problem |
Fierrza said: You can't be posting garbage and then say age isn't a factorKaasfondue said: You're 16 stop pretending you have taste Not sure why people think age is a factor, Its what you have watched and what you have learned, if your next insult is I haven't watched enough well I haven't added them all, and some were so bad I won't even acknowledge I watched them. you gave My Hero a 9 that puts u under me I won't respond to you anymore sorry. |
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beargolfer said: Shounen and fan service have always been around and pretty prominent, it's just that anime is a lot more accessible and we can see everything being put out as opposed to just like the two things that get english releases on VHS. Fierrza said: we have grown men and women watching shonen hell you can blame a kid for watching it but when we have grown men and women watching that's saying something. What happened to age not being a factor? beargolfer said: Shounen and fan service have always been around and pretty prominent, it's just that anime is a lot more accessible and we can see everything being put out as opposed to just like the two things that get english releases on VHS. Fierrza said: we have grown men and women watching shonen hell you can blame a kid for watching it but when we have grown men and women watching that's saying something. What happened to age not being a factor? the amount of knowledge does matter you could be 8 and Have a IQ of 144. but if you're a grown person watching... And I quote google "primarily intended for boys." not grown men and women. |
| >recently First word in and already lost all credibility Sorry, my bad, there's the title, so there was no credibility to begin with |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
ReegrezSNK said: I would say that Shounens make anime fameous and its should be good thing, without Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece, AOT, HxH, FMAB and we can name them endlessly it wouldn't be the same. I don't mind fanservice, but forced fanservice its just cringe for me and about 80% of fanservice in anime is forced so answer yourself. Also for me Shounen dosen't mean a poor storyline like these best shounens apart of action and fights have one of the greatest stories around in anime. you can't ignore a good plot with pointless fighting. and sadly that's what a lot of Shounen do just look at black clover. Everyone just wants to see his demon form and fighting period. |
Mirai said: How do you know the unadapted manga is better if you don't read manga :thinking: strickly talking anime. Idgf about the manga what happens in the anime version is where I am talking about |
Fierrza said: the amount of knowledge does matter you could be 8 and Have a IQ of 144. but if you're a grown person watching... And I quote google "primarily intended for boys." not grown men and women. Not every shounen is aimed for kids, I allowed myself to check your list and I have to tell you that shows like SNK, Death note or FMAB aiming older audience than something like Guality Crown |
ReegrezSNKSep 8, 2020 2:23 PM
ReegrezSNK said: the amount of knowledge does matter you could be 8 and Have a IQ of 144. but if you're a grown person watching... And I quote google "primarily intended for boys." not grown men and women. Not every shounen is aimed for kids, I allowed myself to check your list and I have to tell you that shows like SNK, Death note or FMAB aiming older audience than something like Guality Crown eh, Guilty crown hits different I did an amazing review on it not explaining It would be like the hundredth time. sometimes there are Shounen disguised as Seinen don't be fooled!!! |
| "is Shounen and Fan service anime ruining anime?" Nope, those are making money, thus they are saving anime. Blame public consensus not aligning with your tastes. |
| I don't think fan service is inherently bad. It's more about context/overall representation anime, which I think is what this thread is trying to get at: isn't there something strange about the fact that Shonen dominates popular anime (and manga) and that the creators feel the need to include copious fanservice to make sure the shows are popular? I think it is pretty weird. What type of content is popular in anime says something about anime viewers. Popular taste is catered to young males, and since that's how it is, anime is less accessible to other types of viewers. Because of that, Shonen with fanservice keeps getting made to keep pleasing that same audience and to assure revenue. How do we know if Shonen and Fanservice are the reason Anime is still alive if we don't ever make a concerted attempt to do something different? Just look at the top rated anime on this site... There isn't really much josei/shojo or even too much seinen (and even seinen tries to still appeal to young teens at times). But it's not like the site is made up of all 10-15 year old boys... Also, as has been sort of alluded to in other posts here: Shonen includes content for adults all of the time (it's often made by up and coming anime creators who are trying to push the envelope while making something popular), which complicates the fact that there is fanservice involving underage characters. |
| Enough of the shonen hate boys it's probably the success of shonen anime like DBZ and the big 3 that anime even reached a wider audience. If shonen didn't popularize anime to the point where it is now, most of the people on MAL wouldn't even be watching any anime. |
| This anime shit is addictive |
| shounen anime r great and we also need fan service at least while watching shounen u get to watch great scenes like attack on titan SoL anime dont have the punch that shounen have |
spectrojan said: Enough of the shonen hate boys it's probably the success of shonen anime like DBZ and the big 3 that anime even reached a wider audience. If shonen didn't popularize anime to the point where it is now, most of the people on MAL wouldn't even be watching any anime. Wider audience? Shounen is itself over again |
shrapn3l said: I don't think fan service is inherently bad. It's more about context/overall representation anime, which I think is what this thread is trying to get at: isn't there something strange about the fact that Shonen dominates popular anime (and manga) and that the creators feel the need to include copious fanservice to make sure the shows are popular? I think it is pretty weird. What type of content is popular in anime says something about anime viewers. Popular taste is catered to young males, and since that's how it is, anime is less accessible to other types of viewers. Because of that, Shonen with fanservice keeps getting made to keep pleasing that same audience and to assure revenue. How do we know if Shonen and Fanservice are the reason Anime is still alive if we don't ever make a concerted attempt to do something different? Just look at the top rated anime on this site... There isn't really much josei/shojo or even too much seinen (and even seinen tries to still appeal to young teens at times). But it's not like the site is made up of all 10-15 year old boys... Also, as has been sort of alluded to in other posts here: Shonen includes content for adults all of the time (it's often made by up and coming anime creators who are trying to push the envelope while making something popular), which complicates the fact that there is fanservice involving underage characters. you got a point but I am wondering where do you stand? |
| Big round voluptuous anime tiddies |
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Fierrza said: spectrojan said: Enough of the shonen hate boys it's probably the success of shonen anime like DBZ and the big 3 that anime even reached a wider audience. If shonen didn't popularize anime to the point where it is now, most of the people on MAL wouldn't even be watching any anime. Wider audience? Shounen is itself over again I'm not saying a wider audience embraced or enjoyed shonen anime, I'm saying more people were introduced to the existence of the medium due to the rise in popularity of shonen shows |
| This anime shit is addictive |
Even if I go out of my way, it's difficult for me to enjoy too many popular shonen anime, at least to the degree that many fans on this site seem to. I would definitely like more variety. Even in shonen I sort of like, I find the fanservice to be obtrusive at times, and actually get in the way of storytelling. Sorry to say it, but I prefer manga a bit ^_^;; Though manga isn't perfect either. "In manga, we have many, many different genres, from children's comics to material drawn exclusively for adults - there's an infinite variety of subjects and genres. But it seemed to me that anime was almost nothing but science-fiction robots and beautiful little girls, and it just gets boring after a while. Sometimes you hear creators complaining that they didn't have the budget to do what they wanted, or that their best ideas were canceled, but ultimately, I think that most of these people do what they do because that's all they like. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it is a little sad. Just as we have an extremely broad manga culture, with an infinite variety of subjects and genres, the same should be true of animation." - Satoshi Kon |
| not for a pervert like me but ye the not so recent drama with Fire Force makes me think battle shonen will have less ecchi in the future too i wonder how Edens Zero will be criticize since its like Fairy Tail too |
Fierrza said: CuteAssTiger said: Not really . Bad anime is bad . Good anime is good . Bad anime does not ruin good anime. Besides shonen isnt even bad by default. It aims for a younger demographic but that is hardly ruining anything else. It's also a big contributor to animes popularity. A lot of people start out watching anime with shonen As for fanservice it's much of the same. Bad anime with bad fanservice are bad but don't ruin other anime. Besides sexual things can often be used as great jokes. "Fanservice" isn't actually always fanservice we have grown men and women watching shonen hell you can blame a kid for watching it but when we have grown men and women watching that's saying something. I mean that is totally fine but it doesn't change that the target audience is litterally children by definition. I would argue that making content for children enjoyable for adults is more a sign of quality then anything else.When we think of really good movies for children they usually are movies that are enjoyable to everyone. Just because something is for children doesn't mean it has to be litterally brain dead. I feel like many western cartoons really underestimate what children can understand and handle |
| Yes, the anime industry is dead and you're never wrong. What's new? |
| Btw what do you mean with not having to luxury of reading manga ? Any good phone can just download the tachiyomi app and read any manga , anywhere,anytime |
| The only thing that's ruining anime is it's toxic fanbase. Shonen is the leader when it comes to toxicity, but others are catching up. But the second spot is taken by the manga / LN readers, who'll stick their nose even when uncalled for. You'll only find one to one manga / LN adaptations at top. Then there are those who claim the pacing is too fast / slow. It's best to avoid those who make claims about pacing. Either they are too bored, or disinterested, and their opinions change with episode. There are those who'll rate an anime 1, so if an anime has too many of them, remember they are all trolls. |
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DisconnectedUser said: Yes, the anime industry is dead and you're never wrong. What's new? Amen brother and yes I can be proven wrong and I’ll admit fault if I said somthing unfactual. |
petran79 said: white_ink said: This guy gets it. On topic: if not for shounen anime wouldn't be popular in the west. Most weebs grew up watching DBZ and other shounen shit when they were kids. Even before Dbz, anime was popular with Mecha, space opera and action series too. People shit on mech anime now but the older mech stuff was pretty good I am not complaining |
CuteAssTiger said: Btw what do you mean with not having to luxury of reading manga ? Any good phone can just download the tachiyomi app and read any manga , anywhere,anytime I don’t have time ;-; and especially now that I don’t watch anime much it’s less potent then ever. I think if we’re being fair I spend more time on this site than watching anime. You see where I am going |
| Yikes its you again. Anyways shounen doesn't really ruin anime, in fact it's one of the main reasons why anime is getting popular in countries out of Japan whether people like it or not. The "bad" shounen from these days dont really affect anime in general, even the seinen and shoujo demographic have alot of shitty anime, shounen just stands out more bc most anime are shounen so normally the bad part of it would be exposed more. Good Shounen anime definitely exists out there, the top 100 on MAL is the biggest example bc Shounen dominates most of the list. I dont want any smartass to tell me that the top 100 or rates dont matter bc these rates come from most people who enjoyed these anime. You hating on shounen bc you dont like it doesn't make you have the rights to bash it just bc it doesn't suit you, you act as if these anime shouldn't even exist while at the same time the majority of the people like these bad shounen anime. Not bc you hate something means that they shouldn't exist and people shouldn't like them, idk what kind of attention you're trying to fetch but you should calm down a bit lol. As for fanservice I do think it sometimes can ruin an anime, for example Tamaki's "accidents" made me dislike Fire Force more than before she existed |
animeizboringSep 8, 2020 4:36 PM
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| Isekai LNs are what's ruining anime, heck they outlived the trend of mobile adaptations (they are dying out due to all of the decent games already getting adaptations, Priconne, Tokyo 7th Sisters, and Lapis Re:Lights are the few remaining titles of at least decent quality and all have adaptations completed, near completed, or coming soon) |
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ReegrezSNK said: Shounen is by definition aimed at kids (or teenagers, rather), or at least it is according to the publishers. Obviously some publishers may lie about their targeted audience, like a sports manga being labeled as "for teenage boys" when they really want young women to read it, or gory action being labeled as seinen because it wouldn't be publishable if they were honest about who they expect to read it, but for the most part the targeted demographic is the targeted demographic.Fierrza said: the amount of knowledge does matter you could be 8 and Have a IQ of 144. but if you're a grown person watching... And I quote google "primarily intended for boys." not grown men and women. Not every shounen is aimed for kids, I allowed myself to check your list and I have to tell you that shows like SNK, Death note or FMAB aiming older audience than something like Guality Crown |
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| Why would the best kinds of anime be ruining it? For raising the bar too high? |
| It's insane that so many people are just saying the same things over and over again i.e. "Shonen isn't bad, shonen is literally why anime is popular." Do you understand how markets work? Something doesn't become popular just because it's good or beneficial to the consumer. It's not like a battle royal where the best product always wins. It's about marketing and understanding consumers. Content creators will literally latch onto the same formulas and visual ideas for as long as they are marketable. They want to make something they know they can convince people to buy/watch, not something that's actually meaningful. Making something unique and interesting is a tremendous risk for an anime studio. And ultimately we're left to compare shonen vs shonen vs slice of life vs shonen all with too much fanservice in them, most of the fanservice targeting males btw. There isn't much true variety. |
| I think there are poorly done shounen and fan service but I also think there is well done shounen and fan service. Some of the ones I think are good are ones others think are bad, and vice versa. I think a lot of it comes down to taste. There are definitely going to be ones a majority think are bad and probably ones a majority think are good. I know people who think 99% of anime sucks and there are a handful of good ones. I can watch most anime and enjoy it to some extent, there are of course ones I really enjoy a lot more but I think for me I enjoy the media or format that is anime enough that even mediocre is still fine for me the first time I watch it. Maybe one day that will stop and I wont enjoy nearly as wide of an array but for now its just how it is. For people who already dont enjoy a majority of those genres Im not sure there is more or less as a % than there was before or not so Im not sure if its really an issue other than there is just a lot of anime out there so there is more of everything. |
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