twoego said: ewc said: That's not "bad animation," just fluid animation; it's made like that on purpose to give it "life" or "expression." It's comical that people still can't differ fluid animation from bad animation... what a joke.its been a while since i watched but im pretty sure she did that for like 3 seconds. theres others that are a lot worse bro its literally a thing for higurashi.. i know the difference between them im not fucking dumb i havent watched 200 animes for nothing. if u think higurashi has fluid animation then idek what to say to u because many people have called out higurashi for having poor animation. i dont get why you're being an asshole to me about it lmao i |
H_Lightstone said: Everything was relevant. If you understand it carefully. Just to check that you understand what I am saying, the other information is irrelevant for the thread. I adressed a general argument you made about anime, in your specific argument that people are unintelligent for not liking your favorite show. |
| It matters to an extent, I have shows I rated a 9 strictly because of great production values like Heaven feels 2, however a great story can also save a show. For example I consider Welcome to the NHK to be one of the greatest animes ever made and it has fairly below average production values. Another example would be Shinsekai Yori where the aesthetics of the show are straight up oppressive and there are a decent amount of animation errors in the original run, but the story is so good most people can usually overlook it. |
ACasualViewerMar 15, 2020 10:09 AM
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ewc said: Found Higurashi's animation perfect for a show like that, as the extremity of "expressing" and distortion added to the already disturbing-everything—or at least to me. And I apologize for the "asshole to me," I really didn't mean to come off like that.twoego said: That's not "bad animation," just fluid animation; it's made like that on purpose to give it "life" or "expression." It's comical that people still can't differ fluid animation from bad animation... what a joke. bro its literally a thing for higurashi.. i know the difference between them im not fucking dumb i havent watched 200 animes for nothing. if u think higurashi has fluid animation then idek what to say to u because many people have called out higurashi for having poor animation. i dont get why you're being an asshole to me about it lmao i |
| animation and art are both important, but it's cinematography that ties it all together Animation for movement Art for background, objects and character designs Cinematography for how the visuals are presented |
| Well, yes, it does. Anime is an audiovisual medium using art, animation, sound and voice to tell its story, and ideally all these elements should complement each other to create something more than the sum of its parts. Animation - along with art, editing etc. - is visual storytelling: its how you show instead of telling and pack more meaning into a scene than you could with words alone. Some shows can tell you lot without using any words at all and I personally prefer that to unnecessary dialogue. Good animation can and will make a scene more impactful, while bad animation can very much take something away from it. Of course, what animation counts as good depends on the viewer and context. Not everyone likes the same kind of animation and not every show or scene require the same level of animation. Good art and clever editing can sometimes make up for poor quality or lack of animation, and sometimes a scene can make its point best with limited or no animation. And, of course, story and audio are important as well. Just like good animation can make a story have more impact, a good story can make the animation have more meaning, and a good sound design will obviously complement both and vice versa. To me, how good an anime is ultimately comes down to how well all the different elements work together, not any particular element itself. |
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| Yeah it does the visuals (Quality of the visuals): Character design Animation (movement) Fight choreography Background In my opinion the best in terms of all this is Wit studio. |
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Safeanew said: hahahahahahahahahahaha!! the last part is the funniest, "in your specific argument that people are unintelligent for not liking your favorite show."H_Lightstone said: Everything was relevant. If you understand it carefully. Just to check that you understand what I am saying, the other information is irrelevant for the thread. I adressed a general argument you made about anime, in your specific argument that people are unintelligent for not liking your favorite show. Kid. |
"The most amazing and interesting story in this world ever existed is the story of the world itself where all stories happened" -Hassaan Lightstone- |
zieek said: Wit Studio is great creating in action, Kyoto Animation is the best in creating beautiful animation, Madhouse is the best in creating Thriller and Mystery type animationsYeah it does the visuals (Quality of the visuals): Character design Animation (movement) Fight choreography Background In my opinion the best in terms of all this is Wit studio. |
"The most amazing and interesting story in this world ever existed is the story of the world itself where all stories happened" -Hassaan Lightstone- |
| It does but it depends on what you mean by "the animation is bad." For example, I will not watch an anime that is animated with CGI. That shit is awful and nasty. But people said the animations for One Punch Man 2 and Seven Deadly Sins 3 were awful but I didn't mind it. I still think Seven Deadly Sins 3 is a good anime all around |
guych said: It does but it depends on what you mean by "the animation is bad." For example, I will not watch an anime that is animated with CGI. That shit is awful and nasty. But people said the animations for One Punch Man 2 and Seven Deadly Sins 3 were awful but I didn't mind it. I still think Seven Deadly Sins 3 is a good anime all around Even if the CGI is good like beastars or houseki? What about disney films with CGI like infinity wars? |
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| You can make a show engaging through good cinematography and shot composition. Take Shaft for example. They can make a show engaging to watch because it always looks interesting. The small bursts of great animation is there to impress you, but otherwise their shows tend to be kind of static in nature. |
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ACasualViewer said: guych said: It does but it depends on what you mean by "the animation is bad." For example, I will not watch an anime that is animated with CGI. That shit is awful and nasty. But people said the animations for One Punch Man 2 and Seven Deadly Sins 3 were awful but I didn't mind it. I still think Seven Deadly Sins 3 is a good anime all around Even if the CGI is good like beastars or houseki? What about disney films with CGI like infinity wars? I haven't watched those two yet and I'm not really a big fan of disney. Like I've seen disney films and they were good but I'm a weeb so I prefer anime |
SamTHK said: Animation does matter even with top tier it still do, for example Weathering with you was no where near a masterpiece plot wise, or even violet evergarden could never take as much tear with its story but their animetion was too good. While people said that animation only need to be watchable and the art to be ok, but i say that many show could never be as high rated even with better plot. Good animation =/= Top tier though If the writing sucks then you're just watching something lifeless that was invested into to make a buck. Weathering With You and Violet Evergarden both had good animation, but Violet Evergarden's story was really predictable, and so was Violet's development. None of the characters were really interesting either. For Weathering With You, Hodoka's kind of a simp, but the movie delivers with what it has. |
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| Limited animation can be made up for with good direction. I don't watch tv anime expecting to see good animation. That doesn't mean lackluster animation is OK. "Action scenes" that are comprised of a still image and sound effects always stick out like a sore thumb. But good direction should avoid that. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
ACasualViewer said: guych said: It does but it depends on what you mean by "the animation is bad." For example, I will not watch an anime that is animated with CGI. That shit is awful and nasty. But people said the animations for One Punch Man 2 and Seven Deadly Sins 3 were awful but I didn't mind it. I still think Seven Deadly Sins 3 is a good anime all around Even if the CGI is good like beastars or houseki? What about disney films with CGI like infinity wars? Houseki no kuni looks almost as bad as other full 3D anime. Same wooden expressionsless laggy faces, same ugly, cheap environment. I really don't understand why it's hyped so much for visuals. Beastars looks a bit better, but I still couldn't watch it without cringing. |
rsc-plMar 17, 2020 2:38 PM
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
| I thought Bubuki Buranki had pretty good CGI. The rest of the series wasn't very good and barely anyone seems to remember it, but I actually didn't even notice the series was full CGI until ten minutes in. |
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| Animation certainly does matter. It's a component. Overall, I think I would change my score a point up or down depending on quality. |
"Whether you're sad, you're hurt, or empty, you have to keep playing."  |
| Does animation matter? Of course it does. Does animation matter more than everything else? Of course it doesn't. Just because shitty animation hampers your enjoyment doesn't mean a shitty plot or shitty characters won't do the same. |
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| Absolutely, and not just the quality but also creativity of it such as stuff you might see in shows like mob psycho and pop team epic, it really makes the show more memorable and fun to watch. I’ve been able to enjoy a show without perfect animation, but it does make the experience a lot more fun and usually increases my positive experience with it if it does. Animation is super cool medium you can do a lot with, so I hope to see more experimenting with it other than just to make the characters move. You gotta make em ALIVE man. |
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| It does. But most fans don't understand animation or actually care that much. Films tend to have stronger and more consistently showcased animation than TV series, but if you look at the top rated anime on MAL, most are TV series. Even the highly rated films are often a step below plenty of films rated much lower in terms of animation quality. That, and the minority who do care usually have pretty low animation literacy . Being an animation buff in the anime scene is like being a special effects buff in movie circles, the way you are experiencing the art is different from the norm. |
| Mate who tf says it doesn't. Or are you mistaking with "animation does not matter as much as other factors such as writing or directing"? Literally, I have never met anyone who says animation doesn't matter. And even if some do, proportionally it would be very insignificant. |
| . . . |
| Violet Evergarden had a great story. People need to stop saying that shit. You being unable to pay attention and only like an anime for action and animation doesn't make the story bad. Don't like decent anime read a book. The thing that's bad is people demanding utter sakuga (awesome animation at the upper limits of human effort and creativity) for series or times that don't deserve it. Like, the recent Boogiepop Phantom adaption had decent animation but the story was utterly terrible. OPMS2 is the opposite, they'd gotten people used to sakuga-level and then decided to drop the series (Madhouse, incomprehensibly) to a wasted existence of very low-tier animation. Some people go around now expecting Sakuga for everything. Like, "Why is this not Akira-level?" Because sakuga is expensive and a way of showing off. Sakuga should be rare for things that are amazing and worth it, or the studio wants to show off. Like yeah, Demon Slayer ep 19 sakuga, that was amazing, but also the centerpiece of a dazzling ufotable show. A show that's changed what I think of modern animation. People at the same time bitching about how godawful lazy the new BNHA season is, and they're right. But it's not because no sakuga, it's because it's damn lazy. It's misdirected, missing cues, skipping over fights, utilizing the most awful thing in the universe: flashbacks. And it's always terrible flashbacks. Like yes, animation does matter, but often if it's bad, that's endemic of so many other elements going wrong. BNHA S4 is a perfect example of a shit salad on every count, direction, pacing, narrative, etc. I really think it might come down to the human element. If the team isn't inspired, you ain't getting awesome animation (because it's a money train). I can't think of an example of a mid to high-tier show, versus god tier sakuga show-off show, where I complained about the animation. There's really good enough and there's not enough. |
DarkInsomnia57Mar 17, 2020 7:09 PM
| Well it depends for me. When people say "animation", for some reason they usually mean just how pretty something looks or just the art style. I usually doubt that people even really pay attention to the actual animation. I see people say, "Oh! The animation is so good!" but I look at it and the animation's actually really bad but they just found ways to make it look pretty. And sometimes people will say the animation of an anime is bad when it's actually really good. It just doesn't look pretty. But in the end, the animation itself is smooth, actually moves, and so on. So anyway, a lot of people don't know what they're actually talking about, but let's just pretend everyone's on the same page and what's good animation actually is good animation while the bad animation actually is bad animation as we say. The truth is, an anime just needs at least one really good aspect that draws someone to it. Maybe two. Some of my favorite anime hardly even have any animation and they don't look amazing either. I like the other aspects of it. As long as the other aspects make up for what's lacking then it's all good. |
SwiggyMar 17, 2020 8:53 PM
DarkInsomnia57 said: Violet Evergarden had a great story. People need to stop saying that shit. You being unable to pay attention and only like an anime for action and animation doesn't make the story bad. Don't like decent anime read a book. The thing that's bad is people demanding utter sakuga (awesome animation at the upper limits of human effort and creativity) for series or times that don't deserve it. Like, the recent Boogiepop Phantom adaption had decent animation but the story was utterly terrible. OPMS2 is the opposite, they'd gotten people used to sakuga-level and then decided to drop the series (Madhouse, incomprehensibly) to a wasted existence of very low-tier animation. Some people go around now expecting Sakuga for everything. Like, "Why is this not Akira-level?" Because sakuga is expensive and a way of showing off. Sakuga should be rare for things that are amazing and worth it, or the studio wants to show off. Like yeah, Demon Slayer ep 19 sakuga, that was amazing, but also the centerpiece of a dazzling ufotable show. A show that's changed what I think of modern animation. People at the same time bitching about how godawful lazy the new BNHA season is, and they're right. But it's not because no sakuga, it's because it's damn lazy. It's misdirected, missing cues, skipping over fights, utilizing the most awful thing in the universe: flashbacks. And it's always terrible flashbacks. Like yes, animation does matter, but often if it's bad, that's endemic of so many other elements going wrong. BNHA S4 is a perfect example of a shit salad on every count, direction, pacing, narrative, etc. I really think it might come down to the human element. If the team isn't inspired, you ain't getting awesome animation (because it's a money train). I can't think of an example of a mid to high-tier show, versus god tier sakuga show-off show, where I complained about the animation. There's really good enough and there's not enough. Perhaps there is a misconception of animation always having to be flashy, obviously impressive hype moments so to be good animation. But something like Dennou Coil seems to besomething to aspire to no matter what. Animation that is consistently expressive and full of well worked out movement that tells the story, but perhaps not as flashy as something like One Punch Man. Good animation only has to be so expensive as well, if you have a good animator who gets the fundamentals of timing and posing, then they can pump out amazing cuts even with a majorly limited drawing count and little time to do the work. I'm thinking of Miyazaki and Aoki's cuts on the original Lupin III series here, it is not that the animation got less choppy when they animated, and cel animation in the 70s was a grueling process that left little time for animators to finish their cuts before sending it off to all be traced, painted and photographed( and no easy way to catch mistakes unlike now), there were hard limits to just how many drawings you could even put into an episode due to having to deal with finite resources and budgetary constraints. But those cuts are still great because of a fundamental talent in conceiving interesting motion in the animators. Good animation need only be expensive insofar as talented animators ought to be getting fatter paychecks than untalented ones, but young unestablished animators can still do great work for cheap. |
| There's a good quote from David Byrne of the Talking Heads that I feel is related to this: "The better a singer's voice, the harder it is to believe what they're saying." I feel this rings true for animation as well. While animation can be impressive on a technical front, that doesn't mean that it should be placed on a higher pedestal than less technically impressive animation. Fundamentally, what matters is what is trying to communicate and whether it does so in an appropriate and effective manner. If that calls for something on the level of Disney in terms of animation quality, so be it. If that calls for simple panning shots over still images, so be it. Quite personally, I feel that the overall visual prowess on display in Violet Evergarden paradoxically harms my experience as the emotional weight of such imperfect characters the show is trying to communicate is held back by the perfection of its own visuals. Meanwhile, something like Ascendance of a Bookworm might not be as visually impressive on a technical level, but I feel that the overall more simplistic style of the show makes it feel much more personal and immediate - like it was a story that just needed to be told, regardless of what it looked liked. This of course isn't to say that visuals are not important, but what I feel is of greater importance than the technical qualities of the visuals is how the visuals in and of themselves impact the overall viewing experience. The technical aspects can be a factor, but they are certainly not the only thing that matters when it comes to visuals, let alone the quality of an anime as a whole. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| Watchable Animation + Sticking to Source Material = I'm a happy content man.. |
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| To me, anime which animation is slow-moving and generic is a big turn off for me. I personally prefer animations which are more unique in art styles and smooth in movement. |
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