| So Tsukasa was at first not against science in general, he is more like a person that despises old people and don't want to resurrect them. He only turned on science after senku declared he was going to revive everyone which would also include old people and after realizing science was the only thing that could stop him from preventing such a thing from senku he turned on science and founded his stone age kingdom. But here is the thing: Tsukasa is completly in the right not to revive old people. The infrastructere just don't support them. If you look at our world today, most elderly people need support from a very advanced heatlh care system with millions of nurses and physicians just that they can life their last few years. Those people would die almost immediatly in the stone world. One could say "well you could build such an infrastructure first" but the time that would take would mean until we have that, we have our "own" old people, the old people that build such an infrastructure, and you just can't double the amound of old people on the planet from one day to another. Just imagine that something drops of 1 billion people above the age of 65 on our planet with all their average health problems (5-30% would have dementia etc.) - our world would be in ruins. So I think Senku is actually in the wrong when he wants to revive EVERYONE, because you need healthy young working people, 40 years at max with a few exeptions for top tier "secret knowledge", otherwise your society would have too much of a burden. |
| With age comes experience, in an ideal world. I won't say that is true in our real world, current climate, but if we were to generalize, I believe that reviving old people is just as important. Their wealth of knowledge and experience would go a long way. There are two problems Tsukasa's ideology. He believes that it only takes a small handful of adults to take over a society, and he will inevitably become what he is trying to fight against. Hell, his lack of self-awareness made it so I could not take this series seriously. He is afraid of adults taking over, yet he is trying to rule over his own kingdom with an iron fist. He is the same dictator he is trying to fight against. Now, I know that my first flaw listed seems contradictory considering what I just said, but the only reason he is in charge is because of physical strength, not because of his age. Senku's ideology is not necessarily wrong. You are making an assumption he would revive the next person he sees. Considering what we've seen of him, he is smart enough to do it in such an order that the people who benefit advancement will be revived first. People who are reliant on care will only be revived after said care is available. |
| Senku is using science and technology to automate things as much as possible though and in the real world automation is progressing fast too that it can make a lot of jobs obsolete and robotics and exosuits and even old age health improvement drugs are hot advancement right now so as a man of science Senku will choose that instead of this survival of the fittest mentality that only the strong or young people should survive plus in the show/story once they understood the science behind the petrification then they can easily improve the health of even the old people anyway |
deg said: Senku is using science and technology to automate things as much as possible though and in the real world automation is progressing fast too that it can make a lot of jobs obsolete and robotics and exosuits and even old age health improvement drugs are hot advancement right now so as a man of science Senku will choose that instead of this survival of the fittest mentality that only the strong or young people should survive plus in the show/story once they understood the science behind the petrification then they can easily improve the health of even the old people anyway No they can't because they don't have the infrastructure. Do you even realize what it means to just have to support 1 BILLION people of humans that can't survive on their own? Even if they would advance even further then our society by some miracel and get high tech in 10 years, they still have to build everything. You couldn't build a world like ours right now in under 50 years and even 50 years still wouldn't cover it. And by then, you have your own old people that you have to support, so why add any extras (like I said, our world would be in a crisis if 100 million to one billion old people just entered this world and demanded priviliges like pensions). Their wealth of knowledge and experience would go a long way. thats why i said to 40 years olds with some exeptions for noble price winners or something like that (should be easy to identify them as a statue). But like i said, you can't support everyone without the infrastructure, and experience won't help with that. Hell i guess the adults that would take over this stone world would be the first to point that issue out and call a stop on "reviving people beyond working age (expect for my relatives ofcourse because egoistic reasons)" |
Arcos said: deg said: Senku is using science and technology to automate things as much as possible though and in the real world automation is progressing fast too that it can make a lot of jobs obsolete and robotics and exosuits and even old age health improvement drugs are hot advancement right now so as a man of science Senku will choose that instead of this survival of the fittest mentality that only the strong or young people should survive plus in the show/story once they understood the science behind the petrification then they can easily improve the health of even the old people anyway No they can't because they don't have the infrastructure. Do you even realize what it means to just have to support 1 BILLION people of humans that can't survive on their own? Even if they would advance even further then our society by some miracel and get high tech in 10 years, they still have to build everything. You couldn't build a world like ours right now in under 50 years and even 50 years still wouldn't cover it. And by then, you have your own old people that you have to support, so why add any extras (like I said, our world would be in a crisis if 100 million to one billion old people just entered this world and demanded priviliges like pensions). welp you are applying real world scenario to a soft science fiction show like Dr Stone though lol and that might even be tackled in the manga later on too so that will be interesting on how they will solve that in the real world we got 3D printing technology developing fast too that it can even do 3D printing of infrastructures |
Lel0uchZer0 said: Dude . People will age anyways him included so it is uselss He is delussional as hell and a pretty poor villain Can't wait for the arc to be over. The show is better without his shit Exactly, they age anyways so someday they will become old and need the infrastructure they build until them for themself, not for old people that are additionaly revived. Nobody of you guys get my point sadly. |
| oops I thought the post was going to be some anarcho primitivist propoganda |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Lel0uchZer0 said: Arcos said: Exactly, they age anyways so someday they will become old and need the infrastructure they build until them for themself, not for old people that are additionaly revived. Nobody of you guys get my point sadly. Old people like senku's craftsman? Was he revived? No. Old people like him need the benefits from their community that they put their work into. If you just revive everyone you would see those old guys dying like flys because you can't support them. And it would also cripple progress, since then the most younger people would try their best to suppor the older revived ones instead of build a new world that would actually be able to support everyone. One could argue that this world could be able to revive old people 500 years after senkus revival, if they don't kill themself in wars until then. No Tsukasas motives for his actions are clearly moronic. He should embrace science because nobody would want to live as a caveman for their entire life, i think his allys will realize that sooner or later - he just hopes that senku is dead by then because then it will be to late to embrace the scientific world. |
ArcosDec 14, 2019 10:53 AM
Arcos said: thats why i said to 40 years olds with some exeptions for noble price winners or something like that (should be easy to identify them as a statue). But like i said, you can't support everyone without the infrastructure, and experience won't help with that. Hell i guess the adults that would take over this stone world would be the first to point that issue out and call a stop on "reviving people beyond working age (expect for my relatives of course because egoistic reasons)" I guess you meant Nobel prize, right? Well, this stupid prize (I can give you a full list of people who deserved it and did not get it easily) does not exist for everything (mathematics for example is excluded), and one should better revive everyone to get back all scientific knowledge from the past. Ok, Senku knows essentially all physics and chemistry (although this is just impossible), but his knowledge of biology, medicine (including surgery), mathematics, engineering, etc cannot be so advanced. At least he does not have the practical expertise. History could also be saved easily (for example, to prevent the construction of the bomb before it is created). Therefore, we should really revive all possible experts regardless of age ; we do not actually need so many just to get to mid 20th century scientific knowledge, but for the past 20 years, this might be more tricky (if Tao survived, we save more or less all mathematics). Tsukasa is naive to think that he can prevent the society to evolve as previously be his primitive means. Furthermore, we should also revive old people to retrieve other parts of human culture which can still be saved, and I think that outside of science (which does not really need physical support), it should be possible to save music thanks of all professional musicians and musical instruments professional makers. Philosophy should be easy to save too thanks of researchers. The rest of art will be lost anyway (painters may however make copies of famous paintings), unless some crazy people remembered "Ulysses" and "À la recherche du temps perdu" by heart^^. However, I guess that poetry would have good chances to be transmitted. |
| I think you're wrong, and your whole argument is wrong. He doesn't want to revive old people because their health restricts them lmaoo. He doesn't want them because they're "tainted" and not pure of heart. It has nothing to do with their physical limitations. |
| Senku plans to revive everyone at some point and Tsukasa plans to stop that because he wants to build his own nation with ppl he likes. I think why Senku didn't like where Tsukasa is going with his head, is that he murders ppl, and from Tsukasa's pov, that is morally wrong. Tsukasa I think believes that technological advancement is not good, and Senku thinks it's good. Have you even seen Tsukasa's base? They're literally not even trying to progress. I think it's due to Tsukasa's like trauma about the advance world that made him think that the world they live today is pure as it can get. Whereas Senku believes that advancing towards the future will lead to a better life. This idea is basically how shounen in general attempts to plot it's overall narrative. You have someone on the far opposite of the spectrum and the MC whose clearly the opposite end. I honestly don't care whose right and wrong, one side is stagnant and want to preserve the overall purity that the world currently has and someone just wants to have internet and prolly fap to hentai. The general git of the direction leads towards, that Senku, is generally morally just in his perspective. Though I just want to see how Tsukasa will fight and how Senku will fight, and what's the "in-between" bullshit that the author plans to "woah" the audience. My interpretation of it might be just on the surface lvl, but that's all I can think. |
Meusnier said: I guess you meant Nobel prize, right? Well, this stupid prize (I can give you a full list of people who deserved it and did not get it easily) does not exist for everything (mathematics for example is excluded), and one should better revive everyone to get back all scientific knowledge from the past. Ok, Senku knows essentially all physics and chemistry (although this is just impossible), but his knowledge of biology, medicine (including surgery), mathematics, engineering, etc cannot be so advanced. At least he does not have the practical expertise. History could also be saved easily (for example, to prevent the construction of the bomb before it is created). Therefore, we should really revive all possible experts regardless of age ; we do not actually need so many just to get to mid 20th century scientific knowledge, but for the past 20 years, this might be more tricky (if Tao survived, we save more or less all mathematics). Tsukasa is naive to think that he can prevent the society to evolve as previously be his primitive means. Obviously it's not the only prize that is recognised, i just went with the most famous prize so you guys could get the idea. And I also stated that other experts should be revived as well no matter the age. But do you really think that EVERYBODY above the age of 65 oder 70 is an "expert" in something that a 40 year old is not? Look at our world, because that what they get. Not few older people are living in eldery homes (and above the age of 80 20% will have dementia), which just doesn't exist in this stone world enviroment. Before you got the infrastructure you need to support those people senku probably died of old age as well, and other then adults will just say "we can't afford bringing more people back because we have to care for "our own people" as well. I guess if you see it as a long time effort it could be okay. If they revive up to 50% now and bringing back 1-10 million a year after that wouldn't be that much of a burden, and so it would only take 300-3000 more years for reviving everybody... _Ako_ said: Tsukasa I think believes that technological advancement is not good, and Senku thinks it's good. But Tsukasa was pro science when he was still allied with senku, he only turned on science after Senku proclaimed to revive everyone. His main agenda is to prevent old people from coming back. Whats-up said: I think you're wrong, and your whole argument is wrong. He doesn't want to revive old people because their health restricts them lmaoo. He doesn't want them because they're "tainted" and not pure of heart. It has nothing to do with their physical limitations. How does that make my argument wrong? Tsukasa is just doing the "right" thing for the wrong reasons. Obviously his reasons are stupid, but as a coincidence it is also the right thing to do for now. I stated that multiple times. |
ArcosDec 14, 2019 6:12 PM
Arcos said: _Ako_ said: Tsukasa I think believes that technological advancement is not good, and Senku thinks it's good. But Tsukasa was pro science when he was still allied with senku, he only turned on science after Senku proclaimed to revive everyone. His main agenda is to prevent old people from coming back. Tsukasa only wanted to know their stance on the world. Granted, Senku also wants to confirm Tsukasa's stance. That's literally the most shounen you could find. Also they allied because of a mutual pack between the two, doesn't really matter if Tsukasa is pro or against science bs. Senku's proclamation of "I will revive everyone aha ha Tsukasa" that just means he wants to make the world to the world before, technologically advance and so forth and bs and bs... Tsukasa doesn't want that because he believes that wrong ppl will rot the current world, but Senku doesn't care. Those old ppl you speak of are I think in the anime was the rich and so on and so forth and more bs about old ppl beating the shit out of Tsukasa and more bs and more bs. I don't think it's their problem is more specific on the "old people" but rather their stance on how it will affect the world, and no I don't care if you think Tsukasa is right. I only care about the gimmicks and more bs the author will unfold to make the anime "entertaining" I think your mistaken, or I am mistaken on what's Tsukasa's agenda, but I think Tsukasa just doesn't want the tainted ppl to be alive. This is the reason why he only revives selective few or like the young ones. Not because of the "oh we can't take care of them cause they're old and they're sick" bs as you proposed. I think that it was hinted that Tsukasa dislikes old ppl cause they're literal scum in his pov. But Senku doesn't care. He just wants to watch anime and go fap to hentai. If I'm wrong then please just admit your right, idk either way. The anime was not so bad but at the same time it's meh. |
| i agree with OP. Why revive old people who need medication and such to live when.. none of that exists? |
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Arcos said: Meusnier said: I guess you meant Nobel prize, right? Well, this stupid prize (I can give you a full list of people who deserved it and did not get it easily) does not exist for everything (mathematics for example is excluded), and one should better revive everyone to get back all scientific knowledge from the past. Ok, Senku knows essentially all physics and chemistry (although this is just impossible), but his knowledge of biology, medicine (including surgery), mathematics, engineering, etc cannot be so advanced. At least he does not have the practical expertise. History could also be saved easily (for example, to prevent the construction of the bomb before it is created). Therefore, we should really revive all possible experts regardless of age ; we do not actually need so many just to get to mid 20th century scientific knowledge, but for the past 20 years, this might be more tricky (if Tao survived, we save more or less all mathematics). Tsukasa is naive to think that he can prevent the society to evolve as previously be his primitive means. Obviously it's not the only prize that is recognised, i just went with the most famous prize so you guys could get the idea. And I also stated that other experts should be revived as well no matter the age. But do you really think that EVERYBODY above the age of 65 oder 70 is an "expert" in something that a 40 year old is not? Look at our world, because that what they get. Not few older people are living in eldery homes (and above the age of 80 20% will have dementia), which just doesn't exist in this stone world enviroment. Before you got the infrastructure you need to support those people senku probably died of old age as well, and other then adults will just say "we can't afford bringing more people back because we have to care for "our own people" as well. I guess if you see it as a long time effort it could be okay. If they revive up to 50% now and bringing back 1-10 million a year after that wouldn't be that much of a burden, and so it would only take 300-3000 more years for reviving everybody... Sorry, I was not careful enough to see that you also said the everyone should be revived eventually. Sure, I did not imply that everyone was an expert in something. I guess that politicians can remain in stone form forever and be exposed into museums as relics of the past... I just wanted to argue that we should try to revive everyone to make sure to recover as much as possible the knowledge and culture from the past, but I did not wanted to say that we should revive billions of people in a short period of time. And unfortunately, the memory of really old people is not so reliable, so we could revive them after everyone, taking in account the progress of science. The smartest thing to do would be to revive people between 15 and 40 years olds (no kids because of deceases and harsh environment, and yes some people about 30 to find some physicians!) In the end, the most stupid thing to do is to destroy the stone statues like Tsubasa with the risk of losing the last person on earth who knows perfectly the Symphony No. 2 of Brahms. I do not read the manga, but it seems that even with all the current knowledge at hands, it should take at least one century (most likely two or three) to rebuild everything from scratch, mostly because of lack of infrastructures and establishment of an organized society. |
WillieWonka333 said: What the f am i reading? another Thanos wannabe? lol ye its worse than a "Ok Boomer" mentality |
| Another point which was not mentioned on this topic: do we have an estimation of the number of stone statues which made it in one piece during 3000 years despite all the climatic and natural hazards (e.g. struck by lightning or crushed by an elephant) and collapse of civilization? For example, most people in buildings (and so about 1/3 of humanity who is sleeping) would normally perish after the building collapses. I guess that at least 99% of statues would be partially destroyed after 3000 years, so it becomes really crucial to revive the few intact ones regardless of age. |
| Read the manga and you would know this is not a problem. |
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| Tsukasa is just very jaded guy who thinks you can smash everything. He doesn't realize science has a role in making his great society. Wait until someone gets the flu and they can't cure it. |
| I haven't updated in years but now I have changed that. I'll be free soon. |
| Tsukasa is right about societal wrongs but wrong about how to change it and his vision for what it should be is partially wrong in the primitivist mindset. I mean plenty of youth have the same stupid mindset he wants to eliminate and there are some older people that want change and are intellectually capable of making it happen. |
| So it is perfectly okay for Tsukasa to kill the statue of a middle aged man who has his family right next to him in statues? Nothing excuses his behavior. He's just a murderer. |
| The big picture is that Senku is the protagonist and Tsukasa was given the role of antagonist. If the roles were reversed than Tsukasa would be justified. I like Tsukasa-mama more to be honest, but Senku apparently has the moral high ground, so just root for the one you wish had the protagonist role. If Tsukasa had as much screen time and as I mentioned if the roles were reversed it would justify him and us as fans who want to root for him. |
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lKinol said: Just think logically, the 2nd person Senku revived already trying to start a war. Imagine reviving 7biliion+ppl in a "Stone Age" world, how much chaos do you think will happen. Senku is just one person, he can't lead everyone, not everyone is as kind as Senku as much as he likes to deny it. Idk how Senku can't see that, maybe cuz he's a "Shounen protagonist" Guess he is that science guy clichee that everybody thinks of smart people. "Uh yeah you are smart but that automatically means you are not good with people!" But in that case it seems to be true. He probably has no clue how humans are, especially when faced with very limited resources. |
| He is a bit right, but his way of going about it is COMPLETELY wrong. Gradually reviving people seems to be the way to go, but this guy instead decides that only the young are allowed to live... who the hell is he to decide that? The older generation has so much information on how to run things, make essentials such as houses, medicine, food... However he just decides to kill them all... Him killing the parents of those children in the beginning sealed my view of him. He is wrong. His methods and his view of how the world should be. |
Takuto_Shindou said: Tsukasa gets so much hate lmao, I still think he's better than Kira, at least he has genuine good emotions and isn't a sadistic edgelord Tsukasa's an idiot. "I couldn't get seashells for my sister so I'm gonna murder people I don't know and revive people I also don't know". He then proceeds to create an army and establish a society with his own territory. The very same thing he's murdering people to prevent. His response to capitalism through money is capitalism through power. This show really doesn't need him or even Byakuya. It's better at simply being about a scientist slowly developing technology in a primitive world. Any time it tries to be more it hits a lot of cliches and abandons the logic and science it worships. A bunch of astronauts get stranded on an island and start having kids instead of using their brilliant minds to make boats with the resources they had. |
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MoonStar9 said: A bunch of astronauts get stranded on an island and start having kids instead of using their brilliant minds to make boats with the resources they had. Ugh don't remind me, i have to force myself to ignore this entire astronaut bullshit plot. They could have landed near a big city and have all the resources they have ever wanted, maybe even create the cure after a few years (shouldn't have taken them to long to figure out the cure elixier sometime) and everything would have been back to normal, but instead they decided to land in the middle of fucking nowehre for no fucking reason at all ("hurr durr it was far farest point from the petrification beam hurr durr, better land there instead of a city that can support our every need"). That's the thing that bothers me the most in this anime, but I gave it a pass because it's an anime and they had to explain the village somehow (would have been better if it was just a decended village from some people that woke up 200 year prior to Senku but whatever...) |
| like i said 3D printing will solve this infrastructure problem since there are large 3D printers for making roads and buildings/houses now a days and guess what the last chapter of the side story manga of Dr Stone introduces 3D printing so no problem at all |
| Isn't he more so worried that the rich billionaires (who are currently in power and oppressing the middle and lower class people by hoarding wealth and making us fight over the scraps) will try and seize the power again where we're working our asses off to provide for the 100%? That's the way I interpret his motives and I agree with him partly on that. But I don't think it's necessarily right to go and destroy the statues and only revive some people though. You could revive everyone and just try to be very adamant that there isn't gunna be a hierarchy system with a ruling class taking advantage of the poor. |
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