What do gay people think about BL/Yaoi anime and manga and the portrayal of gay people and homosexual relationships in them?

Jul 18, 2019 1:56 PM

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Mar 2019

2479

Oni_Zokuchou said:
At least ecchi shows/manga are mostly just lewd-by-accident or the girls actively being lewd. BL and Yaoi tho? Ugh, no thanks.

So basically your problem is they commit the crime of portraying males as lewd opposed to just females?

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell

Jul 18, 2019 2:12 PM

#52

Lugaruga

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Jul 2019

1

I'm a girl who likes girls, but, same difference but- the idea that anyone thinks Gl/BL is a display of realism is ridiculous.
It's to get rocks off, or tell an interesting romance (Doukyusei comes to mind)
Nobody reads romance novels to get reletionship advice which are arguably more realistic,, lol why would people apply that to sexy fictional anime people

And all the whiny people who say 'its rapeyyy" or "the sex is unrealistic" It's a kink. If you can't figure that out, you're not old enough to read Bl/GL

Unless someone walks up to me and my non existent GF and says "have sex right now" I think they're good

Jul 19, 2019 11:39 AM

#53

Oni_Zokuchou

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Jan 2017

186

Sphinxter said:

Oni_Zokuchou said:
At least ecchi shows/manga are mostly just lewd-by-accident or the girls actively being lewd. BL and Yaoi tho? Ugh, no thanks.

So basically your problem is they commit the crime of portraying males as lewd opposed to just females?

Missed the point entirely Chief. My problem is if I’m watching a show for ecchi stuff, I’ll watch an ecch show. If I’m watching a romance for y’know. Emotional investment and not constant horny energy, I’ll watch a non-ecchi romance show.

In BL/Yaoi however, you don’t get a choice most of the time. It’s almost always lewd, barely wholesome, and often rapey. It’s not that they portray them as lewd, it’s that they almost always portray them as lewd, and in creepy and cliche dynamics. Because the writers and target audience like that. I don’t.

Jul 19, 2019 11:42 AM

#54

Sphinxter

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Mar 2019

2479

Oni_Zokuchou said:

Sphinxter said:

So basically your problem is they commit the crime of portraying males as lewd opposed to just females?

Missed the point entirely Chief. My problem is if I’m watching a show for ecchi stuff, I’ll watch an ecch show. If I’m watching a romance for y’know. Emotional investment and not constant horny energy, I’ll watch a non-ecchi romance show.

In BL/Yaoi however, you don’t get a choice most of the time. It’s almost always lewd, barely wholesome, and often rapey. It’s not that they portray them as lewd, it’s that they almost always portray them as lewd, and in creepy and cliche dynamics. Because the writers and target audience like that. I don’t.

Maybe so but your initial sentence very much implied that it's not bad be a female actively lewd, only when a male is. So do you revise that position or intended you not to communicate that?

Like do or do you not hold the position that it's not bad to watch if it be a female opposed to a male who is actively lewd?

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell

Jul 20, 2019 8:00 PM

#55

PrudenceRay

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Jul 2019

23

Oni_Zokuchou said:

Sphinxter said:

So basically your problem is they commit the crime of portraying males as lewd opposed to just females?

Missed the point entirely Chief. My problem is if I’m watching a show for ecchi stuff, I’ll watch an ecch show. If I’m watching a romance for y’know. Emotional investment and not constant horny energy, I’ll watch a non-ecchi romance show.

In BL/Yaoi however, you don’t get a choice most of the time. It’s almost always lewd, barely wholesome, and often rapey. It’s not that they portray them as lewd, it’s that they almost always portray them as lewd, and in creepy and cliche dynamics. Because the writers and target audience like that. I don’t.

I guess I count as the target audience and trust me I don't like that either. I don't know what the fuck is going on.

Jul 20, 2019 10:02 PM

#56

PrudenceRay

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Jul 2019

23

Lugaruga said:
I'm a girl who likes girls, but, same difference but- the idea that anyone thinks Gl/BL is a display of realism is ridiculous.
It's to get rocks off, or tell an interesting romance (Doukyusei comes to mind)
Nobody reads romance novels to get reletionship advice which are arguably more realistic,, lol why would people apply that to sexy fictional anime people

And all the whiny people who say 'its rapeyyy" or "the sex is unrealistic" It's a kink. If you can't figure that out, you're not old enough to read Bl/GL

Unless someone walks up to me and my non existent GF and says "have sex right now" I think they're good

I am 28. And first watched and read this stuff when I was well past 18.

Jul 20, 2019 10:08 PM

#57

AnotherGuy

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Jun 2015

353

Pobably the same thing straight people think of straight relationships in anime. "Oh God, what the fuck is this? This is NOT NORMAL. What is wrong with Japanese people? FOR FUCK'S SAKE, SHE IS YOUR SISTER!!!".

Jul 20, 2019 10:47 PM

#58

Sphinxter

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Mar 2019

2479

AnotherGuy said:
Pobably the same thing straight people think of straight relationships in anime. "Oh God, what the fuck is this? This is NOT NORMAL. What is wrong with Japanese people? FOR FUCK'S SAKE, SHE IS YOUR SISTER!!!".

Whoever thinks that instead of "ohhh, cute imouto"?

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell

Jul 20, 2019 10:53 PM

#59

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564534

GoatJesus, an anituber who's openly gay and who is also one of the greatest anitubers made a great video showing his perspective on homosexuality portrayal in anime:

Jul 20, 2019 11:43 PM

#60

OfDeathandLove

osmamthus wine

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May 2014

989

Straight female fujoshi here (who doesn't like rapey stuff), but...

I think most of us can agree that most of shounen ai/yaoi is crap. Often rapey, yes, but also without actual character development or... really noteable any personality at all.

That's one of the reasons why we fujoshi raid sports shows (or other shows with a majority male cast): Because some of those character dynamics is actually interesting, developed, and not super creepy.

Once we get consistent, quality, not-rapey shows, us fujoshi will (maybe) go back to the hole we crawled from.

Unless you're a fujoshi who actually likes this stuff

Jul 21, 2019 2:16 AM

#61

Energetic-Nova

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Jun 2011

5537

Bisexual female fujoshi: My husband honestly reads, an on purpose, and likes, less PC BL than I do. XD

Take a gander at hentai, live action porn, or any other porn made for men... it is always so much worse. So much less story (and contain way more underage/barely legal people :x). I will take my tropey sex stories over that any day.

Energetic-NovaJul 21, 2019 2:35 AM

The anime community in a nutshell.

Jul 21, 2019 11:31 AM

#62

_Ridley_

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Jul 2019

292

Queer woman here. Objecting to fetishization isn't a call for realism. All fiction is idealized and stylized to some extent.

The problem with fetishization is that it's a form of exploitation by a group with institutional power over the fetishized group. In the case of yaoi, it's by and large written by cis het women for consumption by an audience of cis het women. As a consequence, much of it contains stereotypes and assumptions that mirror and reinforce harmful stigmas queer people struggle against IRL. Reading that as a queer person is some combination of boring, exhausting, and/or painful. It sucks to see the people who hurt you use your trauma to amuse themselves. It's alienating.

tl;dr slash shit is boring at best and actively queerphobic at worst.

Jul 21, 2019 12:31 PM

#63

Sphinxter

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Mar 2019

2479

_Ridley_ said:
The problem with fetishization is that it's a form of exploitation by a group with institutional power over the fetishized group.

No "fetishization" is just normalfag language for "anything that deviates from the norm". "fetish" is naught but a fancy word for "unconventional sexual taste."; would someone consider a female in a cute dress cute that's just fine and dandy but be a male held to the same standard that's "fetishizing" and thus wrong — it's nothing more than condemning the abnormal.

In the case of yaoi, it's by and large written by cis het women for consumption by an audience of cis het women.

Did you even bother to confirm these persons are "cis" and "het"? You'll find that most human beings don't have nearly as much investment in their own so-called "gender identity" than you do.

As a consequence, much of it contains stereotypes and assumptions that mirror and reinforce harmful stigmas queer people struggle against IRL.

Are you shitting me? The entire point of yaoi in particular is that these characters aren't "gay"; "gay" is a faggy western cultural invention that appropriate homoeroetica and keeps acting like one need be part of their bullshit social clique ere one can practice homoerica. The characters in Yaoi are not "gay" and don't conform to any of these bullshit "gay" stereotypes that a bunch of western socialfags invented that desperately need to feel like they belong to some group.

Reading that as a queer person is some combination of boring, exhausting, and/or painful. It sucks to see the people who hurt you use your trauma to amuse themselves. It's alienating.

Then don't read it; it's not about you and stop appropriating homoertica like you own it. It existed long before this western "queer" fad that acts like it has a monopoly on it was invented and will exist long after this fad dies out and men stop caring to the same degree about these idiotic labels.

tl;dr slash shit is boring at best and actively queerphobic at worst.

tl;dr: it's not about what you call "queer" and concerns you not; the only reason you think it is is because you think "queer" has a monopoly on homoerotica because it acts like it owns something that was practised since the history of mankind long before this hole "sexual orientation" cultural meme was invented; long before men cared about adopting faggy labels and subcultures based on it.

Yaoi is by and large about love regardless of or despite gender; it has nothing to do with this "queer" bullshit which constantly seeks to measure love to gender. Yaoi does the opposite.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell

Jul 21, 2019 1:34 PM

#64

_Ridley_

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Jul 2019

292

Sphinxter said:
it's not about what you call "queer" and concerns you not

The thread title is "What do gay people think about BL/Yaoi anime and manga and the portrayal of gay people and homosexual relationships in them?" I said what I think about it as a queer person. You're welcome to have your own feelings about it, but they don't negate my own.

I hope you find peace.

Jul 21, 2019 1:36 PM

#65

Sphinxter

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Mar 2019

2479

_Ridley_ said:

Sphinxter said:
it's not about what you call "queer" and concerns you not

The thread title is "What do gay people think about BL/Yaoi anime and manga and the portrayal of gay people and homosexual relationships in them?" I said what I think about it as a queer person. You're welcome to have your own feelings about it, but they don't negate my own.

I hope you find peace.

And I said that yaoi does not portray "gay people"; it indeed portrays "homosexual relationships" but the only reason why OP assumes they're "gay" is at best bi-erasure and at worst sticking sexual orientation labels onto everything.

Yaoi by and large takes place in universes where sexual orientations don't seem to exist and love is felt regardless of gender.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell

Jul 22, 2019 5:29 PM

#66

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564534

_Ridley_ said:
Queer woman here. Objecting to fetishization isn't a call for realism. All fiction is idealized and stylized to some extent.

The problem with fetishization is that it's a form of exploitation by a group with institutional power over the fetishized group. In the case of yaoi, it's by and large written by cis het women for consumption by an audience of cis het women. As a consequence, much of it contains stereotypes and assumptions that mirror and reinforce harmful stigmas queer people struggle against IRL. Reading that as a queer person is some combination of boring, exhausting, and/or painful. It sucks to see the people who hurt you use your trauma to amuse themselves. It's alienating.

tl;dr slash shit is boring at best and actively queerphobic at worst.

Tho, I think many of them wanted their stories to be like that and didn't actually believed that they are writing something realistic. Most of these female mangaka are writing porn fantasies and romance fantasies and they know that... I hope.
Some might know this fact and their audience is too young or simply doesn't know that it's wrong. Most are are girls that don't know different kinds of queer people and grew up with that bunch of stereotypes. If they are also naive, these young girls, and actual confused gay teenagers, might be affected the most by some shady yaoi manga. Although, it's not the job from a piece of fiction to "educate" young people, more humanized characters still could help a lot.

And I never understood, why it seemed to be so difficult for some women to write guys. Maybe you have to keep as a side note how they had been socialized differently, but the effects are different on people and all in all: how hard could it to be for a (heterosexual) female authors to get that (gay/bi) guys are people too lol.
On the other side, I also have seen and met a few of queer people that can't bring themselves to like heterosexual couples.
Just getting out of their own shoes could actually help a lot of people.

Jul 22, 2019 9:10 PM

#67

oyabuntaro

Offline

Jul 2015

461

Sphinxter said:
b.l. rarely portrays "gay people".

"sexual orientations" are a western subcultural invention based on psychiatric pseudoscience rooted in Abrahamic sexual morality. Oriental entertainment and art was portraying homoerotic content long before this hole "sexual orientation" and "gay" stuff popped up and so was a lot of western art by the way look one at say the renaissance.

"gay" is a western-born subculture that as of late often claims some kind of monopoly on homoeroetic acts insisting that everyone that commits homoeroetic acts must be "one of them" or that they gatekeep it; fuck that shit.

Fuck gay people; fuck straight people; fuck all subcultures and the tribalfag. Thankfully most b.l. leaves that crap alone and realizes that love and erotica needn't have this "sexual orientation" crap to succeed.

i can't tell if you're an elaborate troll or not but that seems like too much effort for the amount of psuedo intelluctual self indulgant posts i see you make

these are the ramblings of a genuine insane person

oyabuntaroJul 22, 2019 9:14 PM

Jul 22, 2019 9:27 PM

#68

Nurguburu

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Aug 2017

10896

For me, I like the whole rapey stuff but it depends more in the drawing. If it's bad, I won't like it. I found some yaoi manga, especially hard yaoi, more manly than bara but it's a bit difficult. Bara can be rapey as yaoi so pay attention.

Anyway most of my husbandos are straight or bi guys so I don't care so much.

NurguburuJul 24, 2019 1:43 AM

All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath.

Jul 23, 2019 12:58 AM

#69

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564534

Bunsuke said:

Sphinxter said:
b.l. rarely portrays "gay people".

"sexual orientations" are a western subcultural invention based on psychiatric pseudoscience rooted in Abrahamic sexual morality. Oriental entertainment and art was portraying homoerotic content long before this hole "sexual orientation" and "gay" stuff popped up and so was a lot of western art by the way look one at say the renaissance.

"gay" is a western-born subculture that as of late often claims some kind of monopoly on homoeroetic acts insisting that everyone that commits homoeroetic acts must be "one of them" or that they gatekeep it; fuck that shit.

Fuck gay people; fuck straight people; fuck all subcultures and the tribalfag. Thankfully most b.l. leaves that crap alone and realizes that love and erotica needn't have this "sexual orientation" crap to succeed.

i can't tell if you're an elaborate troll or not but that seems like too much effort for the amount of psuedo intelluctual self indulgant posts i see you make

these are the ramblings of a genuine insane person

There is a serious obsession with these terms and pseudo intellectual themes going on and he won't fucking stop to spam every related thread with "mimimi [dumbterm]-faaag". Favorites are socialfag and genderfag.
You will feel enlightened after. He knows more about you than you do. Thought you have a certain sexual orientation? You are wrong! You don't!

Jul 23, 2019 9:06 AM

#70

DeadlyRaven

Offline

May 2009

5763

Thread locked for breaking rule #5 of AD.

Anime Discussion Rules 5: Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc.

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What do gay people think about BL/Yaoi anime and manga and the portrayal of gay people and homosexual relationships in them?

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