Deathko said: 2ego said: Sorry, but that's a stupid question. Go watch a 25 year old anime and then something like Violet Evergarden, you don't need to be a genius to differentiate which has better visuals... No need to get aggressive, cutie, you're the one who made a claim, I'm just asking to understand. Give me an argument, you wouldn't make baseless claims, right? Here:  31yo  19yo  18yo What makes EVERY modern anime OBVIOUSLY better looking than these, no debating? Mythologically said: Anime art has objectively gotten better since, say, the 1980s. Just like with paintings, as new methods of creating anime develop, the quality of anime increases. Another "it's objective, lol you dummy" user. Great. Cool, then give me clear arguments, not some "technology has improved". No, paintings didn't get worse. But did they get better because of technology? Is any webcomic objectively better than a Da Vinci? Any house track better than what classic composers created? Enlighten me. Great, you chose to ignore my *arguments* and repeat the same process... Look, great, you like old anime, good for you, but this is a discussion, no need to be biased. First, you didn't provide ANY arguments yourself, all you did was ASK for people to provide *arguments* while providing a few gifs of well done animations, obviously old anime/animation isn't garbage, we know, but don't make it seem like the animation went downgrade instead, it didn't, it became better than ever. |
| @Rei366 May be, her normal hair style is pretty unique tho. Here a better one I guess.   |
2ego said: Great, you chose to ignore my *arguments* and repeat the same process... Look, great, you like old anime, good for you, but this is a discussion, no need to be biased. First, you didn't provide ANY arguments yourself, all you did was ASK for people to provide *arguments* while providing a few gifs of well done animations, obviously old anime/animation isn't garbage, we know, but don't make it seem like the animation went downgrade instead, it didn't, it became better than ever. ? I'm asking for your argument because you made the claim that modern anime was better. I can't ignore something you have not shown to me. I also never implied old anime is better. Actually, I did say something about movies and OVAs being better looking on average (because higher budget) and the market for those being bigger in the 80's, but that's about it. See how I actually had an argument to back up my stance, and said movies and OVAs looked better, not old anime? *scratches her head* I'm still waiting for the moment where we can start to have a discussion because that's the point of a forum. You started by denying it with "there's no debating" and now you pretend I ignore arguments you never gave... O-okay? Is it possible to have a weirder and more clumsy discussion? |
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Nanaya-kun said: What if you watch the new BD release that many old anime seem to get today? + 80/90's hair was so fluffy, how can you hate it lmao. Modern ones look very basic and boring most of the time.  Lol, well in that particular pic from Bubblegum Crisis, she's wearing a wig. :p I'm not particularly impressed with old anime in high definition, but it definitely beats the way it looked on my VHS copies I guess. Blu-Rays save me shelf space though... |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| @2ego are you implying that I'm dumb? Because you have no argument? It's funny how some people lack self awareness (^% |
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| @Mythologically So painting reached its technological peak with new brushes and perspective 5 centuries ago, and computers changed nothing to it; but animation on the other hand was improved drastically by said computers? Where animators before computers ignorant of perspective? I'm sorry to talk as if you were retarded, but that's how you speak too me. Funny how someone "obsessed with old anime" never said old anime was objectively better, or isn't insulting towards others. Makes you think, no? @2ego Maybe you're secretely masochist? (^: Mythologically said: You also seem to somehow be linking something as irrelevant as FPS to art quality, which is ridiculous. "Something as ridiculous and irrelevant as an argument vs my opinion and inflated ego." Look at all those ballonheads with zero arguments and too much confidence in their intellectual superiority. |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 1:19 PM
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| [quote=tragedydesu message=56906829] Skana said: The quality of graphics affects one's enjoyment for a show a lot. Another +1 to this. An anime can be Old and look great but if there are no HQ versions of it online most of that beauty is lost. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
So many debates here lmao. The situation is going out of control. @Johan C'mon Man, don't let others beat you. |
ItsYaBoiSkanaFeb 9, 2019 1:23 PM
2ego said: Deathko said: ... No you didn't. I ask "why is it looking better?" and you answer "Because of the quality". Does it sounds like a good argument to you? You could as well say "Because", but that wouldn't be an argument anymore, would it? What makes modern anime "better" visually according to you? Sorry, but that's a stupid question. Go watch a 25 year old anime and then something like Violet Evergarden, you don't need to be a genius to differentiate which has better visuals... Your first mistake is talking to these people as if they have even the most base level of common sense. LMAO. This is the same person who believes Akira & Redline are aesthetically and stylistically in the same stratosphere as Kimi no na Wa. |
 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
| Well this is the same case with how the story is told or how the characters are portrayed, too. Far different from what we have here nowadays. Me myself not really liking retros as much wasn’t so much the older animation style, but due to the aforementioned reasons. |
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| @Rei366 Nope, I just made that example up. At first, I wanted to use NGE, but went with Macross instead, because it's older. However it was somewhat inspired by a post in a German anime Facebook page, where people discussed Eva coming to Netflix. A lot people were really sceptical if the show was really that good and someone said something like: "oh, NGE was probably pretty good back in the 90s, but for today's standard it's not good anymore". Which makes no sense. What show that came out between 95 and now made NGE look like trash in comparison? I don't think there is one. @2ego I guess it depends on what you see as quality. From what I've seen Violet Evergarden mostly relies on digital effects (not unlike Your Name), which wasn't really a thing in the pre 2000s, but I'm sure there a lot of anime with more consistent animation. @Mythologically Sadly that's something that a lot of people do: they claim that every single digital anime looks better (or has better animation or whatever) than every non-digital. A little while ago someone tried to convice others on MAL that the anime K looks better than Princess Mononoke, because K is newer. That's like saying a 2010s Twingo is better than a 30 years old Ferrari. It just shows that people are just close minded towards old anime. |
| Watching anime is usually to find material to bond over with someone else. Recent, especially ongoing, anime series aren't 'stale' in hype. Old anime appeals more to those who wanna dive into the culture/influence behind animation. So, it's not necessarily about animation style. |
 |
AshitaNoJonas said: @Mythologically Sadly that's something that a lot of people do: they claim that every single digital anime looks better (or has better animation or whatever) than every non-digital. A little while ago someone tried to convice others on MAL that the anime K looks better than Princess Mononoke, because K is newer. That's like saying a 2010s Twingo is better than a 30 years old Ferrari. It just shows that people are just close minded towards old anime. They were trying to convince ME, hahaha. I run into these nuts all the time (^% |
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cevat24 said: @Deathko What you're saying is same as saying ''Star Wars has better special effects than Avengers'' Akira was the best looking anime in the 80s. But compared to something like kimi no na wa or violet evergarden akira doesn't stand a chance. *sighs* Do you people have actual arguments or? Because I have some, and nobody gave any in favor of fucking Kimi no na Wa. Kimi no na Wa animates a bunch of highschoolers, wich is as standard as it gets, and it isn't the most fluid either. All it has is very pretty photorealistic backgrounds, and lots of color filters. Is the whole thing particularly creative? With highschoolers and photorealistic backgrounds? I don't think so. C'mon, give me arguments, it's tiring, all these entitled people who can't speak two words to defend their anime. Do you even know why you think it's prettier, or are you all just parroting? @Mythologically So you can't give a decent argument to back up your stance, but you read others' minds? Yeah, whatever. |
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Johan said: Your first mistake is talking to these people as if they have even the most base level of common sense. LMAO. This is the same person who believes Akira & Redline are aesthetically and stylistically in the same stratosphere as Kimi no na Wa. Speaking of animation, KNNW is definitely not in the same level as Akira and Redline, it's not even debatable. And this coming from a guy who enjoyed waaaay more KNNW than those two titles. |
| People using smooth action sequences to showcase the quality of older or modern anime is going to become my new all time pet peeve (sorry @Deathko, it just happens every time and it triggers my SoL fan side xD) but other than that I think the OP has a point. While not necessarily the MAIN reason why older anime is avoided, there is certainly this misconception that newer = better when a lot of times it's just different. I feel a little sad though that this discussion ends up about either elevating or dismissing Shinkai when it's just an author that excels at a style, a certain use of resources and a visual language that is different from others. Comparing Kimi no na wa to Cowboy Bebop, Akira or Redline is absurd because it is just better at some things and worse at others, as corresponds to having a differentiable style with different preferences. You don't see bombastic animation in Shinkai's movies and the characters are not very expressive visually, but you see outstanding framing where backgrounds surround the characters and create a mood. Both are valid and it comes down to preference if one is better than the other, but it doesn't quite sit right to compare stuff in fields they are not close to have the same artistic vision on, just because they are both anime. |
| I feel like a big part of it has to do with how, for lack of a better term, "flat" a lot of older anime looks on the surface. Digital lighting and shading in animation have come a long way and can make shots look more multidimensional than in a number of older shows. |
Take care of yourself |
cevat24 said: @Deathko What you're saying is same as saying ''Star Wars has better special effects than Avengers'' Akira was the best looking anime in the 80s. But compared to something like kimi no na wa or violet evergarden akira doesn't stand a chance. IDek why you people keep even trying to use logic, common sense and reason with deathko. Let them enjoy their 1970 black and white cartoons and bitch on MAL forums about how cool, smart, and different they are because they appreciate the "true artistic value" or whatever other sophist propaganda they're spouting. Deathko said: cevat24 said: @Deathko What you're saying is same as saying ''Star Wars has better special effects than Avengers'' Akira was the best looking anime in the 80s. But compared to something like kimi no na wa or violet evergarden akira doesn't stand a chance. *sighs* Do you people have actual arguments or? Because I have some, and nobody gave any in favor of fucking Kimi no na Wa. Kimi no na Wa animates a bunch of highschoolers, wich is as standard as it gets, and it isn't the most fluid either. All it has is very pretty photorealistic backgrounds, and lots of color filters. Is the whole thing particularly creative? With highschoolers and photorealistic backgrounds? I don't think so. C'mon, give me arguments, it's tiring, all these entitled people who can't speak two words to defend their anime. Do you even know why you think it's prettier, or are you all just parroting? @Mythologically So you can't give a decent argument to back up your stance, but you read others' minds? Yeah, whatever. This is cute. The parrot parroting Digibro, or AnimeEveryday or Zephsilver or whatever other pretentious elitist filled their mind with this garbage rhetoric calling others parrots. Yes we get it the rest of the anime watching world is uncultured buffoons because we all can't be as cool, smart, different and edgy as you. Now go (re)watch Haibane Renmei so you can put it on your favourites like a good girl <3 |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
| @Arkab I'd say you're trying to reason with the wrong person here, but it looks like I have a handful of them on my back too. (^: |
|
jal90 said: People using smooth action sequences to showcase the quality of older or modern anime is going to become my new all time pet peeve but other than that I think the OP has a point. I feel a little sad though that this discussion ends up about either elevating or dismissing Shinkai when it's just an author that excels at a style, a certain use of resources and a visual language that is different from others. Comparing Kimi no na wa to Cowboy Bebop, Akira or Redline is absurd because it is just better at some things and worse at others, as corresponds to having a differentiable style with different preferences. You don't see bombastic animation in Shinkai's movies and the characters are not very expressive visually, but you see outstanding framing where backgrounds surround the characters and create a mood. Both are valid and it comes down to preference if one is better than the other, but it doesn't quite sit right to compare stuff in fields they are not close to have the same artistic vision on, just because they are both anime. It's not as if Akira had shit framing or no work on the light ambience... ^_-. I can put some Kawajiri gifs too, if you want. It's just that it was easier to mention Akira because it's full 24 FPS. You want the gif with the whole gang walking and talking instead? It's not as if I was bringing up Kimi no na Wa myself, they do, all the time, with no arguments. I have some arguments. I just want a normal discussion, not to throw gifs topeople who think "it's good because it's good" is an argument". Additionally... It's not as if computers changed the way framing works, so it's not as if Kimi no na Wa ages had anything to do with technical progress. Wich is the point others are trying to make here. |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 2:08 PM
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Deathko said: jal90 said: People using smooth action sequences to showcase the quality of older or modern anime is going to become my new all time pet peeve but other than that I think the OP has a point. I feel a little sad though that this discussion ends up about either elevating or dismissing Shinkai when it's just an author that excels at a style, a certain use of resources and a visual language that is different from others. Comparing Kimi no na wa to Cowboy Bebop, Akira or Redline is absurd because it is just better at some things and worse at others, as corresponds to having a differentiable style with different preferences. You don't see bombastic animation in Shinkai's movies and the characters are not very expressive visually, but you see outstanding framing where backgrounds surround the characters and create a mood. Both are valid and it comes down to preference if one is better than the other, but it doesn't quite sit right to compare stuff in fields they are not close to have the same artistic vision on, just because they are both anime. It's not as if Akira had shit framing or no work on the light ambience... ^_-. I can put some Kawajiri gifs too, if you want. It's just that it was easier to mention Akira because it's full 24 FPS. You want the gif with the whole gang walking and talking instead? It does, and it looks great. But it does not have that focus. Shinkai communicates a lot through backgrounds and through the way he places his characters in the frame. For Akira this is a more functional approach, not so much of a key aspect to the narrative. And yeah, I know you were not the one bringing this comparison and making dumb statements to start with. I just think all of these examples have value and that this value is different for each of them. |
jal90Feb 9, 2019 1:34 PM
Johan said: Vonice said: Kisejiuu, SSY and Penguindrum are good, maybe fate zero and madoka too. If you think Anohana, Kuroko, Shigatsu and Erased are good.....come on If you don't maybe it's time to find a new hobby tbh. This one ain't it chief @Vonice Nvm i see you got the holy quadrant of elitism in your favourites. Serial Experiments Lain, Monster, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse. Stop infesting the forums, and watch Haibane Renmei or some Yuasa junk so you can add it to your "favourites" so you can show all of MAL how cool and different you are and how "Great" your "taste" is in anime. The real elitist is you sir. He was simply voicing his opinion and you straight up attack him and insult him for his taste. Elitism has to do with attitude, not with taste in anime. |
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Mythologically said: I love how you want a technical explanation for why something looks better. Does every person that ever thought "Man, the Mona Lisa sure is better than this random scribble drawn by a child!" know exactly why the Mona Lisa is better? Huge surprise: no. It's just better. I can't tell you exactly why Evergarden is better than Bebop or Akira. All I can tell you is that both I and nearly every other human on Earth think that it is better. Seriously we should frame that. It went from "obviously, objectively" to "I have no argument but that's my opinion and 5 people in my friend list on MAL agree with me." Yeah great, sorry I lost my time for that. |
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DepravedMagi said: Johan said: If you don't maybe it's time to find a new hobby tbh. This one ain't it chief @Vonice Nvm i see you got the holy quadrant of elitism in your favourites. Serial Experiments Lain, Monster, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse. Stop infesting the forums, and watch Haibane Renmei or some Yuasa junk so you can add it to your "favourites" so you can show all of MAL how cool and different you are and how "Great" your "taste" is in anime. The real elitist is you sir. He was simply voicing his opinion and you straight up attack him and insult him for his taste. Elitism has to do with attitude, not with taste in anime. This might be the biggest fallacy of all time. And I've debunked that so many times. Attitude is a cover elitists like to use to denounce their elitism and deflect the argument. Newsflash if you love Fairy Tail, SAO, Naruto and Pokemon you can literally be the most most abrasive, mean, biggest jerk of all time you're still not a fucking elitist. Stop obfuscating. An elitist and jerk are mutually exclusive terms. Deathko said: Mythologically said: I love how you want a technical explanation for why something looks better. Does every person that ever thought "Man, the Mona Lisa sure is better than this random scribble drawn by a child!" know exactly why the Mona Lisa is better? Huge surprise: no. It's just better. I can't tell you exactly why Evergarden is better than Bebop or Akira. All I can tell you is that both I and nearly every other human on Earth think that it is better. Seriously we should frame that. It went from "obviously, objectively" to "I have no argument but that's my opinion and 5 people in my friend list on MAL agree with me." Yeah great, sorry I lost my time for that. I'm sorry you've just been getting owned this entire thread. |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
Johan said: cevat24 said: @Deathko What you're saying is same as saying ''Star Wars has better special effects than Avengers'' Akira was the best looking anime in the 80s. But compared to something like kimi no na wa or violet evergarden akira doesn't stand a chance. IDek why you people keep even trying to use logic, common sense and reason with deathko. Let them enjoy their 1970 black and white cartoons and bitch on MAL forums about how cool, smart, and different they are because they appreciate the "true artistic value" or whatever other sophist propaganda they're spouting. Deathko said: *sighs* Do you people have actual arguments or? Because I have some, and nobody gave any in favor of fucking Kimi no na Wa. Kimi no na Wa animates a bunch of highschoolers, wich is as standard as it gets, and it isn't the most fluid either. All it has is very pretty photorealistic backgrounds, and lots of color filters. Is the whole thing particularly creative? With highschoolers and photorealistic backgrounds? I don't think so. C'mon, give me arguments, it's tiring, all these entitled people who can't speak two words to defend their anime. Do you even know why you think it's prettier, or are you all just parroting? @Mythologically So you can't give a decent argument to back up your stance, but you read others' minds? Yeah, whatever. This is cute. The parrot parroting Digibro, or AnimeEveryday or Zephsilver or whatever other pretentious elitist filled their mind with this garbage rhetoric calling others parrots. Yes we get it the rest of the anime watching world is uncultured buffoons because we all can't be as cool, smart, different and edgy as you. Now go (re)watch Haibane Renmei so you can put it on your favourites like a good girl <3 I legit never watch anime youtuber and I've been more than salty with ZephSilver both for personal reasons and because I found his reviews... bad. Never missed an occasion to say it publicly We ended having a long discussion about it, but since he isn't an deaf and arrogant prick like you, we managed to talk like adults. Sadly, this is impossible to achieve with you. |
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Maneki-Mew said: Johan said: What on earth are you talking about? Man I'm legitimately trying to keep calm but name me ONE ova/movie/etc from the 2000s, 90s, 80s, 70s w/e that can aesthetically even be compared to Kimi no na Wa (Your Name), any of Shinkai's movies, Shaft's flair and aesthetics, Kyo-Ani's meticulous attention to detail - you ever see Sound Euphonium? Man do you people literally just make shit up to be contrarian, Im honestly fucking confused. I absolutely love his backgrounds, but I don't like his character designs. Their faces look... flat? I saw this in other recent anime too like Irodoku. They look too shiny on the one hand, but on the other hand, there isn't much depth that comes from the face features, shadows etc. I don't know, if I' just weird, but I really thought this. And also their designs look very similar too. And now please don't call me an elitist or similar. I overall love new anime (more than old ones, but there are good old anime) and I really like Shinkai. I still like his visuals and a bunch of new styles in general. Although it's the same for Violet Evergarden for example. Here, the faces look good and the scenery is per se beautiful, but it still looks like there are too many instragram filter all over the place lol. When have i ever called or implied you were an elitist? |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
Chrawnus said: Lmao at everyone in this thread throwing around the word "objective" about something like judging what art style is better which by it's very nature is a highly subjective endeavor. If you prefer the art style of older anime it isn't because it's objectively better, it's simply your subjective opinion that it's better. And on the other hand, if you prefer the art of newer anime it's not because it's objectively better, but because it fits your own subjective and personal tastes better. This whole discussion is pointless. Yep, you can't throw around "objectively" then tell people they're ridiculous when they bring up framerate and that despite any argument, X or Y is obviously better because almost everybody agrees. *sighs* Oh well, patience is the key. |
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| Honestly, in my opinion, if a person argues "Anime X is better than Anime Y and that means your taste is Shit Mr/Mrs. Z" that automatically makes that person a huge moron in my eyes. that also counts for lines like Chrawnus said: Lmao at everyone in this thread throwing around the word "objective" about something like judging what art style is better which by it's very nature is a highly subjective endeavor. If you prefer the art style of older anime it isn't because it's objectively better, it's simply your subjective opinion that it's better. And on the other hand, if you prefer the art of newer anime it's not because it's objectively better, but because it fits your own subjective and personal tastes better. This whole discussion is pointless. This person gets it. DepravedMagi said: Johan said: If you don't maybe it's time to find a new hobby tbh. This one ain't it chief @Vonice Nvm i see you got the holy quadrant of elitism in your favourites. Serial Experiments Lain, Monster, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse. Stop infesting the forums, and watch Haibane Renmei or some Yuasa junk so you can add it to your "favourites" so you can show all of MAL how cool and different you are and how "Great" your "taste" is in anime. The real elitist is you sir. He was simply voicing his opinion and you straight up attack him and insult him for his taste. Elitism has to do with attitude, not with taste in anime. This is a good example, u said it yourself, but u said it to the wrong person sadly because u seem incapable of reading in between lines. "If you think Anohana, Kuroko, Shigatsu and Erased are good.....come on" this line is clearly elitism according to your own definition, not sure why you protect the guy when he goes against what you say and instead bash the other guy. |
| Enjoying the shitstorm above me. Also i agree with OP on this. |
AshitaNoJonas said: Why watch Yu Yu Hakusho, when you could watch Black Clover instead? You lost me here. You just compared a diamond to a pile of trash that's been lit on fire, pissed on by hobos, and then lit on fire again. These diamonds are exactly why younger fans should check out older anime. The only modern-day shonen I can think of that lives up to YYH's legacy is HxH. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
CatSoul said: AshitaNoJonas said: Why watch Yu Yu Hakusho, when you could watch Black Clover instead? You lost me here. You just compared a diamond to a pile of trash that's been lit on fire, pissed on by hobos, and then lit on fire again. These diamonds are exactly why younger fans should check out older anime. I know YYH is better, that's why I used this as an example. It was suposed to be a statement that a modern anime fan would likely say. |
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