katsucats said: LoneWolf said: "Would you prefer a pet name or love name next time?" is incredibly patronizing, unprofessional, and yes, even sexist. This isn't your average Joe saying it. It's a company in the service industry.https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/01/army-generals-promotion-pulled-after-calling-congressional-staffer-sweetheart/?utm_source=dvf&utm_campaign=alt&utm_medium=facebook http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5228379/Anger-Virgin-Trains-sexist-response-complaint.html Why am I not surprised. I keep saying the laws are getting worse. The goal posts are being moved. They will never be happy until its illegal to even look at a woman the wrong way, let alone talk to her. This #Metoo shit has made the situation even worse for men as it is now trickling down into the workplace. Honestly the hypocrisy is disgusting here. I have no idea how many female co-workers or random waitresses or female cashiers have called me honey, sweetheart or darling. These bitches are just hateful thots and looking for even the most minor of excuses to bring down men. Of course this is only men they don't like or they feel are beneath them. If fucking Chris Hemsworth called them honey or sweetheart they would have no problem, but because its a regular joe not worthy of m'lady they get fucked. Sometimes women do take it out of hand, but it's people like you that twist news to your agenda that's fucking disgusting and a black sheep to our cause. People like you justify radical feminism. So you might as well just get a room with them and leave the rest of us out of it. I think you are taking that a bit far. Nothing justifies the radicalization of ideas. Extremism is inherently a terrible way of bringing about positive impactful change. Any idea taken to a logical extreme ends up having major faults and terrible consequences. So no, nothing OP said justifies radical feminism. Honestly I dislike this short format as it's too general and rather unfalsifiable due to the lack of clear rationale and points but i'm too tired for this shit and my point isn't nuanced enough for me to be bothered to explained in a falsifiable way. |
AbhorrentJan 7, 2018 1:28 AM
  come, you sweet hour of death |
Nothing- said: I am not taking it far at all. I'm not going to argue with you about the semantics of "justification" but the fact is that sexism exists, and people who reject that like OP is equally extremist as people who see everything as sexism. They are two sides to the same coin -- one cannot exist without the other. Radical feminism is the overreaction to people who refuse to see sexism, and socialism is the overreaction to people who refuse to see social class, and vice versa. OP's overreaction to feminism is exactly the same problem.katsucats said: I think you are taking that a bit far. Nothing justifies the radicalization of ideas. Extremism is inherently a terrible way of bringing about positive impactful change. Any idea taken to a logical extreme ends up having major faults and terrible consequences. So no, nothing OP said justifies radical feminism. Honestly I dislike this short format as it's too general and rather unfalsifiable due to the lack of clear rationale and points but i'm too tired for this shit and my point isn't nuanced enough for me to be bothered to explained in a falsifiable way."Would you prefer a pet name or love name next time?" is incredibly patronizing, unprofessional, and yes, even sexist. This isn't your average Joe saying it. It's a company in the service industry. Sometimes women do take it out of hand, but it's people like you that twist news to your agenda that's fucking disgusting and a black sheep to our cause. People like you justify radical feminism. So you might as well just get a room with them and leave the rest of us out of it. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I call my gf "baby" is this also harassment??? |
| Yeah okay, honey. You do you booboo. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: Nothing- said: I am not taking it far at all. I'm not going to argue with you about the semantics of "justification" but the fact is that sexism exists, and people who reject that like OP is equally extremist as people who see everything as sexism. They are two sides to the same coin -- one cannot exist without the other. Radical feminism is the overreaction to people who refuse to see sexism, and socialism is the overreaction to people who refuse to see social class, and vice versa. OP's overreaction to feminism is exactly the same problem.I think you are taking that a bit far. Nothing justifies the radicalization of ideas. Extremism is inherently a terrible way of bringing about positive impactful change. Any idea taken to a logical extreme ends up having major faults and terrible consequences. So no, nothing OP said justifies radical feminism. Honestly I dislike this short format as it's too general and rather unfalsifiable due to the lack of clear rationale and points but i'm too tired for this shit and my point isn't nuanced enough for me to be bothered to explained in a falsifiable way. So what, you want to continue this vicious cycle of positive feedback? You really think that is the solution? And when you use the word justify then yeah we are gonna get into the fucking semantics of the word as I can't perceive it they way you do. I can't tell in what way you mean justify so I just go with the most literal definition of it. You could have more accurately said OP's response causes radical feminism and I wouldn't be here like an asshole trying to point out extremism is some dumb shit. But for the most part your observations aren't wrong. |
come, you sweet hour of death |
DejWhoa said: Nothing- said: So what, you want to continue this vicious cycle of positive feedback? You really think that is the solution? And when you use the word justify then yeah we are gonna get into the fucking semantics of the word as I can't perceive it they way you do. I can't tell in what way you mean justify so I just go with the most literal definition of it. You could have more accurately said OP's response causes radical feminism and I wouldn't be here like an asshole trying to point out extremism is some dumb shit. But for the most part your observations aren't wrong. I don't think it's about radicalization of anything, but becoming self-aware that the way you act might be improper. I don't see how it's okay to call random girls sweet words in work environment. I'd say it's just creepy. We moved way past that. And yes, pet names in a work setting isn't okay if the other party is clearly bothered by it. I am rather indifferent as this doesn't effect where I live and it isn't particular massive really. |
come, you sweet hour of death |
Nothing- said: No, I want OP to stop his vicious cycle. I think you're lacking some critical thinking.katsucats said: So what, you want to continue this vicious cycle of positive feedback? You really think that is the solution? And when you use the word justify then yeah we are gonna get into the fucking semantics of the word as I can't perceive it they way you do. I can't tell in what way you mean justify so I just go with the most literal definition of it. You could have more accurately said OP's response causes radical feminism and I wouldn't be here like an asshole trying to point out extremism is some dumb shit. But for the most part your observations aren't wrong.I am not taking it far at all. I'm not going to argue with you about the semantics of "justification" but the fact is that sexism exists, and people who reject that like OP is equally extremist as people who see everything as sexism. They are two sides to the same coin -- one cannot exist without the other. Radical feminism is the overreaction to people who refuse to see sexism, and socialism is the overreaction to people who refuse to see social class, and vice versa. OP's overreaction to feminism is exactly the same problem. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| The first thing that came to my mind was this scene. If HIMYM aired this year they'd probably have to censor half of it, especially Barney. Regarding the topic; the SJWs are crazy, everything is going to hell, let it all burn yada yada. Pretty much the same thing you hear in the news every week. |
katsucats said: Nothing- said: No, I want OP to stop his vicious cycle. I think you're lacking some critical thinking.So what, you want to continue this vicious cycle of positive feedback? You really think that is the solution? And when you use the word justify then yeah we are gonna get into the fucking semantics of the word as I can't perceive it they way you do. I can't tell in what way you mean justify so I just go with the most literal definition of it. You could have more accurately said OP's response causes radical feminism and I wouldn't be here like an asshole trying to point out extremism is some dumb shit. But for the most part your observations aren't wrong. No, not quite. You just pointed out OP is feeding into the problem. Then go onto to say get a room and leave the rest of us out of it. Which is a sentiment I don't necessarily disagree with but in no way indicates you wanting him to end his cycle. In your second post you proceed to more articulately explain how OP's violent rejection feeds into the cycle and thus is part of the problem. While the case can be made it is implied, I am not one for assuming intent. Personally, even if op realizes this is infact just a cycle, it makes no difference. The problem is fundamentally ingrained into people. Irrational hatred is just gonna always gonna be a thing |
come, you sweet hour of death |
I tell my gf she has spicy tits lmfao is that also harassment?????? No it's a fucking strawman. It's not about what you and your SO do in private, its about how employers and how in general men address women (women they don't know) with terms of endearment. You don't have to agree with it being harassment, I mean I don't either; but don't fucking strawman an argument just to make yourself look like a fucking victim. |
| Things are going this way because people can't recognize different tones of voice used when said for example "sweetheart" etc. It goes way beyond any #Metoo campaign and affects every kind of face to face conversation these days. It's like because people can't hear the tone on the Internet (meaning they can't read between the lines or don't have any sense of sarcasm and irony) they are not able to do so in a real life conversation either. And if someone hears a woman go with the flow when someone calls her a sweetheart, darling or other she's a flirty bitch who wants to break everyone's relationships lol. |
Eight-Man said: Remember, be an artist, not an autist. "If anything simply cannot go wrong it will anyway." ~ Murphy's 5th law |
| A certain user here called me "dear" once. As a non-binary I find it absolutely disgusting. I don't even know how to describe this moment guys. I've never understood how people would feel in moments like that where you are scared for so many reasons. My first thought was to "break free" by giving him a respectful response that I didn't want to talk to him anymore but he just didn't let go. What came after was even worse. He literally dropped the "H-bomb" (for those who are unaware of its meaning - basically he called me "honey") It happened very quickly, I didn't know what to do.. Do I run? Do I scream? Do I cry? Do I hide? Is he in front of my door or outside my window? Who's that guy and what does he want from me... Anyway, that's a pretty exaggerated story of what really happened. I feel like these words are a bit old and have lost their original meaning. Using them to address a stranger in 2018 is kinda creepy/cringey and gives people the wrong impression besides I don't see a point in talking like you are in some 70s movie. I'll tell you the same thing I told to that guy back then. I have no problem with people expressing themselves as long as it doesn't involve sexual harassment (or some other offense). And how can I take this "regular Joe" thing seriously? Yea sure, Chris Hemsworth is probably more popular with the girls but instead of blaming looks/money you should try to improve your personality a little bit. Because right now this is no different than the threads we used to see in r/incels. |
149597871Jan 7, 2018 4:33 AM
| Those terms are meant for people you are intimate with. When you call this to a stranger you are basically forcing intimacy between the two of you. There might be some socially understood exceptions, such as with the elderly, but it should be plainly obvious (even more so in a professional setting) that it is not okay to address a client as such (especially when upset), or a congressional staffer (albeit the consequences seem out of proportion). |
| cmon my fellow MAL autists this one ain't too hard at least unless you're: a) like 30-40 years older than her b) good buddies c) in a romantic relationship you're being creepy that's all there is to that |
 "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." |
| sigh. i don't think it's hard to understand that you shouldn't give a woman a pet name unless you know she's comfortable with it and it's not in a professional place, like work. it's inappropriate behaviour for the workplace especially, you should address them by their first or last name. i agree that there shouldn't be a double standard on this, so if you don't feel comfortable with a coworker or female addressing you by a pet name then tell them, and come forward with your story. instead of calling women "bitches" and "thots" and getting mad that you can't call them a name that makes THEM uncomfortable, why don't you help contribute for men and women's respect equally? if you feel men should get equal sexual harassment representation, then help out with that. create a safe zone for men to come forward. don't shut down women and undermine them because you don't like it. honestly, just respect and understand how people feel in general. who are you to tell someone else that they can't feel a certain way because that's not how you feel? why is respect such foreign logic to people, lmao anyways, if you're a man and have been sexually assaulted/raped, feel free to call this number here: 800.656.HOPE (4673) you're not alone and you can still come forward with your story. i believe you. |
 |
| Rightfully so. We don't live in the 1950s anymore. The correct terms are "bae" and "daddy". |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
Hias said: I don't see the issue. It's condescending and creepy. You're making a big deal out of nothing. Saucy said: Whoa whoa whoa. Calm down. This is just an extension of anti sexual harassment movements. None of this is new. People are just bringing more attention to other forms of harassment that women experience in the workplace. That doesn't mean that being called "sweetheart" in a normal flow of conversation means that it's harassment. If you notice, these incidents are accompanied by other condescending and disrespectful behaviors. There are clearly instances where someone is being rude, unprofessional, and disrespectful. I doubt that any reasonable woman would be offended if someone casually or endearingly calls her "sweetheart" or "darling" when they're being pleasant to her. In UK, it's pretty common to tag "love" when talking to women. The problem, in most Western countries, is when people do it condescendingly or disrespectfully. It's not much different from if you're male, a woman calling you "boy" as she condescends you. I hardly think most men would find that "endearing." Context is the big player here. You cannot just say that women can't call you "hun" no matter what if they want to complain about being called "sweetheart." If the tone is endearing or casual, it's fine. In a public setting between strangers, it's bound to be misinterpreted by some, in which case you should maybe reserve it for people you know well or if they ask you to stop, actually stop. I'm sure there are overly sensitive people out there who will get outraged at being called "sweetheart" in any context by anyone, but it's important to be reasonable. If the person isn't being disrespectful, maybe lay off the outrage. This is a real problem that many women face in the workplace and it spans months if not years. I don't see why it's a problem to call attention to it, especially when people actually ARE being disrespectful and condescending in these cases. This. I don't know how you don't see this as a problem. I guess you think policing words is fine? |
 |
| I prefer the term 'dear one' myself. But well, this doesn't sound like a dystopian future where only a select elite of males are only allowed to talk or look at women. The first one sounds like buddy got pinged for bein a tool, and the second one sounds like literally not shit. I'm sure you can keep calling women honey. You know, if that's like, your thing. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| I think it may sound creepy depending on the context but not harrasment. Especially the links OP gave. |
 |
| Just saying, as a female, I don't mind being called things like 'sweetheart' at all. Having said that, I do think those words come across as someone trying to talk to you as though you're still a little girl, which is hella weird. However, it's all context dependent. For example, last night a friend and I went to a pub, and some creepy 50 y/o immediately zeroed in on us with 'Hello there, my darlings. You're two of the most attractive women I've even seen. Why don't you come and sit with me?" Naturally, we declined and went and sat in a different room of the pub because we didn't wanna be near this guy, but he followed wherever we went. He wasn't /saying/ anything nasty, just kept commenting how attractive he thought we were and shit like 'there's something about you I really like', and the way he looked at us was really unsettling. He even asked if we'd like to book a hotel and 'go and have 10 glasses of vodka and get smashed with him'. Like, nah fam. Anyway, think because things like 'darling' and etc are 'nice' words, it makes women feel more like they have to stay in an unwanted conversation, because the guy is just being nice, right? Obvs if someone called you a bitch/something more aggressive you'd just nope out of there straight away (or in that situation last night, I'd have reported him to the bar staff- but as he wasn't saying anything 'offensive', we didn't feel like we could). Like idk, because it all sounds nice and polite when someone calls me those things I feel like I have to be polite back, when in reality I don't owe anyone anything. But yeah, I largely agree that it's gone too far. Mostly, words like these are innocuous, BUT some people do use them to harass women and that's not okay. Also, if someone doesn't wanna be called 'honey', so what? Just accept it. It's not hard to cut that single word from your vocab when addressing someone if it makes them uncomfortable. If a guy (or female friend or whatever) told me to stop calling them 'hun' or w/e I would do it because I'm not an asshole. |
ladamesansmerciJan 7, 2018 9:52 AM
| 'I love you because you're you. I'm happy that you're whole. I don't care if there are sides of you that I don't know, or don't like. If that's who you are, that's fine. As long as you're whole, that's enough for me.'-Kouko Kaga |
DejWhoa said: Gan_water said: I prefer the term 'dear one' myself. But well, this doesn't sound like a dystopian future where only a select elite of males are only allowed to talk or look at women. The first one sounds like buddy got pinged for bein a tool, and the second one sounds like literally not shit. I'm sure you can keep calling women honey. You know, if that's like, your thing. Doesn't "dear one" sounds cheesy as fuck if you actually say it like that? Rather than cheesy it sounds very serious. People say it though. You can be my dear heart ;) |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| @katsucats Its kind of laughable in itself that you want to use your personal vendetta against me to justify "extremist feminism", but honestly that's not even what I'm against. I don't really care about the FEMEN crazies running around shirtless at political and religious events screaming their heads off. What I'm really against is institutionalized feminism. I want it out of universities, I want to get rid of the multi-million dollar feminist organizations. Most importantly I want to get rid of the feminist bias in the criminal justice system. The feminist judges, lawyers, politicians and prosecutors that have made the criminal justice system a place where men get screwed. I mean have you looked at the rates of prosecution for men and women and the difference between who is spending how much time in jail for what crimes? Do the research and look objectively at how men are being treated in comparison to women. Now as far as my actions, I'm not gonna set up some revolution or even preach joining social movements or philosophies like the MRA or MGTOW that actively fight against this stuff; all I want to do is spread some knowledge and make people aware. Making a post on a forum is honestly the "extent" of my activism. I just want people to see what I'm seeing. They are just looking for excuses to get men in trouble and move the goalposts. It all starts with a few cases of women complaining and then suddenly its a law and then suddenly men are facing fines or jail time. Let me make this clear. They want to criminalize you for being a man and they are looking for any little thing to do so. @149597871 The point was to say that the person who said it matters almost as much as what was said. No one would care if it was an older women and no one would care if it was a famous celebrity or a significant other or loved one. The only reason these cases are being brought up is because they happen to be older men. The fact that you went right to shaming tactics shows that you didn't understand my point at all. |
LoneWolfJan 7, 2018 2:23 PM
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Kittens-kun said: I don't know how you don't see this as a problem. I guess you think policing words is fine? If it's inappropriate language towards customers then yes. Employers and businesses should watch what they say. Virgin Train should have handled the situation better than being rude and dismissive, it's very easy to come off as condescending and sexist if you're using something like 'honey' in a clearly rude way. |
 |
Hias said: Kittens-kun said: I don't know how you don't see this as a problem. I guess you think policing words is fine? If it's inappropriate language towards customers then yes. Employers and businesses should watch what they say. Virgin Train should have handled the situation better than being rude and dismissive, it's very easy to come off as condescending and sexist if you're using something like 'honey' in a clearly rude way. But don't you think calling it harassment is a bit much? |
|
| Typically where I live honey is used by older men (60+) to refer to their wives. Sweetheart is typically used by grandmothers to refer to their grandchildren. |
 |
Not really, it was rude and passive aggressive. The employees on that train were abrasive and passive aggressive because a woman complained about their fuck up. And when she took to social media to describe the event, Virgin Trains replied in the same way; dismissive, rude and passive aggressive. |
|
Hias said: Not really, it was rude and passive aggressive. The employees on that train were abrasive and passive aggressive because a woman complained about their fuck up. And when she took to social media to describe the event, Virgin Trains replied in the same way; dismissive, rude and passive aggressive. That's still not harassment. It's just being assholes. |
|
| Don't even know how to react. I mean, I loathe it when people call me those things, but I just cringe internally and smile. If it's not done with bad intentions, then why make a big deal out of it? |
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises" — Edmond Manning  |
And? The article I was talking about didn't even mention the words harassment in it, neither did the first one actually, Lonewolf just added it because it's his kneejerk reaction to anything when it comes to articles about women being supposedly manipulative and evil, and only them. Both stories had people with patronizing and sexist attitudes towards women. People don't like that, women don't appreciate that kind of behavior, neither should anyone because it's just being a dick. Especially when it comes to the Military or a business; have some conduct and decency and treat people well. |
|
Hias said: And? The article I was talking about didn't even mention the words harassment in it, neither did the first one actually, Lonewolf just added it because it's his kneejerk reaction to anything when it comes to articles about women being supposedly manipulative and evil, and only them. Both stories had people with patronizing and sexist attitudes towards women. People don't like that, women don't appreciate that kind of behavior, neither should anyone because it's just being a dick. Especially when it comes to the Military or a business; have some conduct and decency and treat people well. I don't get the outrage at all, but ok. |
|
Hias said: And? The article I was talking about didn't even mention the words harassment in it, neither did the first one actually, Lonewolf just added it because it's his kneejerk reaction to anything when it comes to articles about women being supposedly manipulative and evil, and only them. Both stories had people with patronizing and sexist attitudes towards women. People don't like that, women don't appreciate that kind of behavior, neither should anyone because it's just being a dick. Especially when it comes to the Military or a business; have some conduct and decency and treat people well. The fact that they think no one should be a dick to them shows how entitled little spoiled bitches they are. And how weak they are on top of that. |
| op sweetheart focus on something else |
| Why would you call a woman 'honey' or 'sweetheart' unless they're your wife/gf. It's creepy otherwise, unless it's some elderly person saying it. |
 |
Heddie said: I rather like being called both of those things tyvmWhy would you call a woman 'honey' or 'sweetheart' unless they're your wife/gf. It's creepy otherwise, unless it's some elderly person saying it. |
| I don't think it necessarily qualifies as harassment (it depends on the tone and the context) but it still comes off as creepy. Honey/sweetheart is something that should be reserved for your partner (sweetheart could also work for your daughter), not that_random_secretary.jpg that started working at your company 3 days ago |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
code said: I rather conclude that is most not possible as you are as a matter of fact, a boi.Heddie said: I rather like being called both of those things tyvmWhy would you call a woman 'honey' or 'sweetheart' unless they're your wife/gf. It's creepy otherwise, unless it's some elderly person saying it. |
|
Heddie said: 1) don't assume genderscode said: I rather conclude that is most not possible as you are as a matter of fact, a boi.I rather like being called both of those things tyvm 2( boys can be called those things |
code said: Don't tell me what to do, you liberal.Heddie said: 1) don't assume gendersI rather conclude that is most not possible as you are as a matter of fact, a boi. 2( boys can be called those things |
|
| I've been called both honey and sweetheart by older men and women. I don't think they mean any harm by it. And honestly, it's weirder when people call me ma'am. |
 |
| Though the military article was about a two star General deriding someone for their political affiliations. It was, I guess harassment, but not sexual harassment. If I know the General and I think I do. He wouldn't touch that woman with a ten foot pole if she was the last woman on Earth lol. Although It seems most people wouldn't be able to spend one day outside in the Southern US without being triggered 24/7. Sweetie, darling, sugar, honey, hun and a multitude of others is commonly used for total strangers. Probably have a psychological breakdown if a handshake was offered or a guy held the door open for another guy. |
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| it really does depend on the context. i've been called "honey" and "sweetheart" before in an incredibly leering manner that made me feel really uncomfortable on several occasions and it really does creep me out. i don't mind at all if someone just calls me a "sweetheart" if i've done something nice for them though. so while i don't agree that it should be considered harassment - it's not entirely out of the question. |
| People are just too sensitive in all the wrong areas, people say peace can't last because of things like over-sensitivity, I tend to agree. |
| Why is OP baiting everyone so hard lol.. |
  Crying doesn't mean you're weak. Enduring doesn't mean you're strong. |
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