| i have seen this phrase thrown out to some shows and manga . before googling i belived pretentious show is just shows that have philosophy and it is often liked by certin people. i tried googling the word in official dictionary and urban dictionary i almost got same results pretentious in urban dictionary: To use "big words" to make yourself sound smarter than you actually are. official: attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed. is the word have different meaning in anime community? if so , what is it? what are are some of the shows you watched and belive they are pretentious? and please state your reason, or else your reply will be meaningless. |
HussJan 4, 2018 9:23 AM
| I don't care what anybody says, Mushishi is pretentious as fuck. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| Dies Irae (the anime) was pretty pretentious. But in reality there was no comprehensible story. |
  Crying doesn't mean you're weak. Enduring doesn't mean you're strong. |
Fuchsia said: I don't care what anybody says, Mushishi is pretentious as fuck. Zoce_ said: what are are some of the shows you watched and belive they are pretentious? and please state your reason, or else your reply will be meaningless. can you please state your reasons? why do people refuse to read the post a lot? |
so it was pretentious because it had symbolism? how so? |
| Evangelion. The whole thing was a big pile of mess with tangled plot points which were never explained and an ending that had it's head stuck in it's own ass. |
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maluhia said: Dies Irae (the anime) was pretty pretentious. But in reality there was no comprehensible story. can you please state why do you think it was pretentious? |
| I don't believe it's shows that are pretentious, but the people who watch them instead. After all the shows are just entertainment. |
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| Psycho-Pass easily, almost entirely because of Makishima, whom they tried hard to make into an interesting villain with a motive (and that's what fans seem to think of him) whereas he's a total psycho whose logic doesn't really hold up at all. Oh, and to complete the picture they had to make him randomly quote shit at all times and be overly philosophical. |
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Zoce_ said: yup, that sounds a lot like mahouka i almost got same results pretentious in urban dictionary: To use "big words" to make yourself sound smarter than you actually are. i feel (the subs at least) tried to make everything sound as formal and precise as possible saber from fsn i also feel was subbed to sound as such is the word have different meaning in anime community? if so , what is it? im assume shows like utena, haibane renmei, eva that to be fair you need a high iq to understand |
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| A pretentious show is one that tries to exert knowledge it lacks, to some degree or another. A romance written by someone who has never felt love, coming off as a one-dimensional mess.. that would be pretentious. A show throwing around references to different philosophers but getting the point wrong would also be pretentious. Most of the time, though.. people pretentiously use the word pretentious. |
| Madoka magica is the only example that comes to my mind. I was expecting something dark and psychological but it turned out average magical girls with edge where Madoka is acting like 5 year old and crying about everything mixed with some quirky shaft artwork. |
| Ouran Koukou Host Club Shinsekai Yori |
| I only know one show that warrants the pretentious brand: Musaigen no Phantom World. |
Brb said: . thanks. time to check this show and maybe have some funI only know one show that warrants the pretentious brand: Musaigen no Phantom World. |
hmmm why is that? i saw both of those. |
mascarpone said: I don't believe it's shows that are pretentious, but the people who watch them instead. After all the shows are just entertainment. thats actually interesting thought. you might be right. |
| Ergo Proxy. A show severely lacking in the story department, being for the most part just an anime about three characters travelling through an empty wasteland on a fancy sci-fi boat, utilizing pretty much every cyberpunk cliche and trope there is (totalitarian government not caring about people represented by non-corporeal entities, androids who ponder what it's like to be human etc. etc.), presenting extremely simple messages using overly complex words and phrases, and using surrealistic, out-of-context scenes and random philosophy book quotes to appear deeper than it is. |
| I don't really like the word that much, since different people will get different things from each series, therefore a show that's pretentious in one person's eyes may end up having a lot of good to say in the eyes of another person. That said, if I'm to go by my experience alone, Classroom of the Elite would be off the charts in that regard. It titles every episode with a philosophical quote that only vaguely relates to the episode's actual events. The series itself begins by asking if all humans are truly equal in society, which pretty much anybody with common sense would be able to answer themselves with an immediate "no", yet the series still puts a ton of emphasis on the question as if it's making a bold statement. Then the rest of the story after that barely reflects said core question. The setting is supposed to be a school of elite students separated in classes by descending order of intelligence. The show tells us that this causes discrimination among the students, but it rarely shows that discrimination. Contrast that with Assassination Classroom, where the world view of the rest of the school, that the End Class is a bunch of useless idiots that they should avoid becoming, is very clearly and consistently shown in their actions. It makes a lot of attempts to spark psychological drama in the story, in spite of its total lack of understanding of how people actually act. As some examples, with each example coming from a different character: - 1. Sudou manages to pass the exam to get into a school for elite students, yet within a few episodes manages to fail an exam despite being handed a sheet containing all of the answers in advance. - 2. Horikita, in one episode, tries to prevent Sudou from getting expelled because she's worried about the kinds of penalties the school might put on the rest of the class, while in another episode, she doesn't care what happens to Sudou, forcing Ayanokouji to tell her the same conclusion she herself had come to just one episode ago. - 3. When Ayanokouji gets a peek under Kushida's cheery persona, she threatens to accuse him of trying to rape her if he tells anyone (despite the fact that he wouldn't benefit from that, nor does he have any personal grudge against her), and plants his fingerprints on her shirt as evidence. Briefly disregarding the fact that she'll have to wash her uniform eventually (removing the evidence in the process), within the next couple of episodes that threat becomes basically irrelevant to anything that happens in the story and Kushida starts falling for Ayanokouji. - 4. Speaking of Ayanokouji, when he's told an episode or two after that threat that Kushida has a spare key to his room, he is perfectly fine with this arrangement and doesn't even consider that she might forge incriminating evidence. - 5. Sakura, who is supposedly intelligent enough to get accepted into an elite school while perpetually focused on keeping up the facade of a quiet, shy girl, tries to escape her creepy stalker... by walking into the darkest abandoned alley she could find. So, by my experience alone, this show would be extremely pretentious. But once again, I don't really like that word, because I know my viewpoint of the series, or any series for that matter, isn't the only valid one, and somebody else may have got a lot more from it than I did. |
| Generally, to me it seems pointless to ask these kind of questions since what you will find pretentious solely depends on you and your outlook on the way creators handled the story. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't state your opinions or disappointments with certain shows, it just means that if I say that Code Geass is a pretentious show, you might not find that to be the case and that's just my opinion. So i think that this is completely unnecessary cause you'll just get different opinions without context which won't bring anything meaningful to the table except maybe for rudeness among the users. It is all relative. The truth is in eye of a beholder... |
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topazio said: Pretentious and overrated are often words people just throw around freely to describe shows they don't like. I don't even like to use them too much precisely because of how perverted their use has become. This is exactly why people use the term pretentious. It's not an invalid criticism because it tells exactly how someone feels toward the show. Someone who says that Mawaru Penguindrum is pretentious is correct in the way that the symbolism didn't impress the person and therefore the person didn't like this aspect of the anime. On the other hand, I don't think Mawaru Penguindrum is pretentious because it's exactly the use of symbolism that I liked the most in the show. So in the end, a show can be pretentious for some people. It's also the same for overrated. It's a term used to describe how someone feel about the show. |
sensei69 said: so any show can be pretentious simply because the person watch it view it like that? that make the word meaningless. thanks for your input.Generally, to me it seems pointless to ask these kind of questions since what you will find pretentious solely depends on you and your outlook on the way creators handled the story. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't state your opinions or disappointments with certain shows, it just means that if I say that Code Geass is a pretentious show, you might not find that to be the case and that's just my opinion. So i think that this is completely unnecessary cause you'll just get different opinions without context which won't bring anything meaningful to the table except maybe for rudeness among the users. It is all relative. The truth is in eye of a beholder... |
Zoce_ said: sensei69 said: so any show can be pretentious simply because the person watch it view it like that? that make the word meaningless. thanks for your input.Generally, to me it seems pointless to ask these kind of questions since what you will find pretentious solely depends on you and your outlook on the way creators handled the story. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't state your opinions or disappointments with certain shows, it just means that if I say that Code Geass is a pretentious show, you might not find that to be the case and that's just my opinion. So i think that this is completely unnecessary cause you'll just get different opinions without context which won't bring anything meaningful to the table except maybe for rudeness among the users. It is all relative. The truth is in eye of a beholder... Hmm, I don't think that in that case it makes word itself meaningless - it just implies that what will you personally classify as pretentious depends on your opinion. For instance, if you find some line of the dialog or an action of a character disconnected from the rest of a show or a show tries to make a heavy shift in tone of its story without previously making any logical preparations for it, then you might find that particular part to be pretentious. But then again, someone else won't interpret that the same way as you do. I hope that I made sense... :) And I just wanna say that you are a rare example of an OP who actually discusses with other users on his own thread. Good job mate. :) |
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sensei69 said: Zoce_ said: so any show can be pretentious simply because the person watch it view it like that? that make the word meaningless. thanks for your input. Hmm, I don't think that in that case it makes word itself meaningless - it just implies that what will you personally classify as pretentious depends on your opinion. For instance, if you find some line of the dialog or an action of a character disconnected from the rest of a show or a show tries to make a heavy shift in tone of its story without previously making any logical preparations for it, then you might find that particular part to be pretentious. But then again, someone else won't interpret that the same way as you do. I hope that I made sense... :) And I just wanna say that you are a rare example of an OP who actually discusses with other users on his own thread. Good job mate. :) hahah just few times. i mostly give one liners replies. hmm i think i understand the word better now. thank you for the information you gave in this thread :) |
Zoce_ said: I might possibly be. I feel like some anime fans take themselves too seriously at times.mascarpone said: I don't believe it's shows that are pretentious, but the people who watch them instead. After all the shows are just entertainment. thats actually interesting thought. you might be right. |
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| Every anime I dislike is pretentious because its fans who try to tell me how good it is are also pretentious. |
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| Aldnoah.Zero. It wants to be this intelligent mecha show where everyone is outwitting everyone, but all it amounts to is a deadpan main guy you have no reason to root for monologing technobabble until the other guy falls over and/or explodes. What's worse is that the soundtrack is by Hiroyuki Sawano and I'm really sad that some of my favourite songs from him are attached to this thing |
topazio said: Hrybami said: This is exactly why people use the term pretentious. It's not an invalid criticism because it tells exactly how someone feels toward the show. Someone who says that Mawaru Penguindrum is pretentious is correct in the way that the symbolism didn't impress the person and therefore the person didn't like this aspect of the anime. On the other hand, I don't think Mawaru Penguindrum is pretentious because it's exactly the use of symbolism that I liked the most in the show. So in the end, a show can be pretentious for some people. It's also the same for overrated. It's a term used to describe how someone feel about the show. No, these aren't words that can be used freely just because someone didn't like a show. Those are words with defined meanings and should be used as such. While I agree with your example, the problem is that usually happens is this: random wildly acclaimed movie/book that was influential as hell on sundry areas and is regarded as a masterpiece by literally everyone who understands its impact. Someone doesn't like it for whatever reason, be it that they found it boring or that they simply doesn't understand "how people can like it". Then it suddenly become "pretentious and overrated". I will use 2001 as an example, because it is as good as it gets. 2001 was one of the most influential movies in history and its influence is still felt today, and everything on it was, as a matter of fact, ahead of its time, and basically every movie director and cinema enthusiast agrees on this. Jodorowsky's Dune wasn't even a thing the time 2001 came out. Pretentiousness and overratedness refers to specific assets of a work: the first that the work wasn't able to do what it intended to do, that it claimed to possess depth it did not or that it simply didn't manage to do anything with what it had at hand, and the second that its fame and influence isn't justified because it simply isn't that good. How can such two words be used subjectively on a work which its mere existence denies them? wow i thought dune was pretty famous in the past.damn thats new information. so basicly pretentious can mean when a show fail to execute its supposedly deep theme. like if a show talk how society should be run by the people and put some philosophical ideas, then execute these ideas poorly. thanks for sharing your info. the other use of word is more subjective than the first use i feel. |
Aquamirror said: Every anime I dislike is pretentious because its fans who try to tell me how good it is are also pretentious. but thats just the people who call it good or smart, it is not the fault of the show itself. |
AisBarbs said: Madoka magica is the only example that comes to my mind. I was expecting something dark and psychological but it turned out average magical girls with edge where Madoka is acting like 5 year old and crying about everything mixed with some quirky shaft artwork. maybe you thought the show is pretentious because of your expectations and not because the show faild at what it trying to do? maybe you didn't understand what it is trying to do or its point? maybe you right , but i cant judge since i really didn't like that show and haven't rewatched it since it came out. it is not my place. |
topazio said: Hrybami said: This is exactly why people use the term pretentious. It's not an invalid criticism because it tells exactly how someone feels toward the show. Someone who says that Mawaru Penguindrum is pretentious is correct in the way that the symbolism didn't impress the person and therefore the person didn't like this aspect of the anime. On the other hand, I don't think Mawaru Penguindrum is pretentious because it's exactly the use of symbolism that I liked the most in the show. So in the end, a show can be pretentious for some people. It's also the same for overrated. It's a term used to describe how someone feel about the show. No, these aren't words that can be used freely just because someone didn't like a show. Those are words with defined meanings and should be used as such. While I agree with your example, the problem is that usually happens is this: random wildly acclaimed movie/book that was influential as hell on sundry areas and is regarded as a masterpiece by literally everyone who understands its impact. Someone doesn't like it for whatever reason, be it that they found it boring or that they simply doesn't understand "how people can like it". Then it suddenly become "pretentious and overrated". I will use 2001 as an example, because it is as good as it gets. 2001 was one of the most influential movies in history and its influence is still felt today, and everything on it was, as a matter of fact, ahead of its time, and basically every movie director and cinema enthusiast agrees on this. Jodorowsky's Dune wasn't even a thing the time 2001 came out. Pretentiousness and overratedness refers to specific assets of a work: the first that the work wasn't able to do what it intended to do, that it claimed to possess depth it did not or that it simply didn't manage to do anything with what it had at hand, and the second that its fame and influence isn't justified because it simply isn't that good. How can such two words be used subjectively on a work which its mere existence denies them? I agree that when it comes to influential works, the term should be used with care and only if you have solid argument to back it up. A person can still argue that a critically acclaimed show is overly praised if the person knows a reason why to think like that. To prove this point at this moment seem to be a really difficult task, but I don't think it's impossible. One can also say that the show is overrated or pretentious because someone else convinced him to. But that applies only if the show in critically acclaimed. In reality, not every show is influential and so they don't have this influence which defend them from quick and easy criticism such as pretentious. To be honest, I don't particularly like when a show is defended because of its influence. I prefer when people form their own opinion on the show. |
Zoce_ said: Aquamirror said: Every anime I dislike is pretentious because its fans who try to tell me how good it is are also pretentious. but thats just the people who call it good or smart, it is not the fault of the show itself. It is bad, what more does it matter? If you defend a bad anime, you are pretentious in trying to portray 'bad' as 'good'. |
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Aquamirror said: Zoce_ said: but thats just the people who call it good or smart, it is not the fault of the show itself. It is bad, what more does it matter? If you defend a bad anime, you are pretentious in trying to portray 'bad' as 'good'. being bad or not doesn't necessarily mean a show is pretentious. you know that right? |
Zoce_ said: Aquamirror said: It is bad, what more does it matter? If you defend a bad anime, you are pretentious in trying to portray 'bad' as 'good'. being bad or not doesn't necessarily mean a show is pretentious. you know that right? If it lures people to become pretentious trying to defend it and they are the only people who do that, then that show is pretentious as well because that's the only visible outlook watchers could get from it. |
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Aquamirror said: If it lures people to become pretentious trying to defend it and they are the only people who do that, then that show is pretentious as well because that's the only visible outlook watchers could get from it. what do you mean lure? thats very subjective and vague. |
Zoce_ said: Aquamirror said: If it lures people to become pretentious trying to defend it and they are the only people who do that, then that show is pretentious as well because that's the only visible outlook watchers could get from it. what do you mean lure? thats very subjective and vague. There's no subjectivity when there's only one kind of a group. I'm starting to think you are pretentious for trying to argue against my point. |
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| Most mystery anime. They try to be clever, but they aren't, and tend to use the cheapest plot devices. Ergo Proxy. They expected the audience to sit through 2 hours of dumb fucks sitting on a boat, as if it was worth something. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| It is definitely the most delicate and complicated criticism you can give. It's so absurdly easy to misjudge if a show is or isn't pretentious. As a personal example, let's talk about my experience with Angel's Egg. When I finished the movie, I did kinda like it, but thought it was extremely pretentious. It was a bunch of nothing with christian symbolism thrown around and unresolved themes. It would be pretty easy to just drop the gun and say it's pretentious. Instead, I decided to read and watch some reviews. And then, I realised a lot of the things I thought were pointless, actually made a lot of sense. The symbolism is on point and full of meaning. Was it my fault for not figuring that out? Nah. You can't expect everyone to actually know about christianity. But after reading what people that did know about it, and that rewatched the thing countless times, I realised it wasn't in fact pretentious. Sometimes you just don't have enough knowledge to figure it out. And when people don't, they usually just call it pretentious. When they don't understand a complex thing, they also call it pretentious. You need to be aware that if you use the word as criticism, you're always subject to being extremely wrong out of your own stupidity. No exceptions. There's always the chance that the work is so mindblowingly genious that no one realised there's more to it than meets the eye. That's why I don't like using it. |
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| Erased, it pretends to be a good show when it actually sucks since ep 1. |
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zal said: Erased, it pretends to be a good show when it actually sucks since ep 1. That's the best use of the term pretentious actually. |
MortalMelancholy said: Most mystery anime. They try to be clever, but they aren't, and tend to use the cheapest plot devices. Ergo Proxy. They expected the audience to sit through 2 hours of dumb fucks sitting on a boat, as if it was worth something. 'Dumb fucks' is what one can think seeing such a stupid post that explains nothing at all. |
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AmMar-Sama said: I get slightly annoyed whenever the Kara no Kyoukai fans pretend that Mikiya is anything but your average generic male main character. The movie series goes out of its way to tell you that him being boring is 'the point' and constantly shoves down your throat that he was written as an "overly dull person with nothing special" on purpose, but that changes nothing and sounds pretentious as fuck. Telling me that you did a shitty job intentionally isn't going to make the work any better. Oh, and Araya is a garbage villian. so true, so true, Shiki is too good for him and he basically forced his philosophy/ values onto Shiki saying that murder is wrong, if you don't let me change (and control) you then I won't love (forgive) you. You don't really see how Mikiya lets Shiki influence his decisions the way Shiki drags a movie out for two hours before deciding that people can justify murder to themselves (e.g. self defense, vengeance) |
NihilisticLoner said: An anime comes off as pretentious to me when characters start trying to talk, "philosophically" in situations where people should be talking normally. Ex: in Bakemonogatari, every time two characters talk, it's always about the nature of humans, or the nature of someone they know, or some random philosophy, or just nonsensical tangents. It always comes up almost randomly. It feels incredibly forced. People in real life are much more straightforward and less-elaborate, in their dialogue. That's why I believe Western tv has far better dialogue. From the ones I've seen, characters just talk like normal people. Fuchsia said: I don't care what anybody says, Mushishi is pretentious as fuck. I am very curious about this. Mushishi's dialogue is incredibly bare-minimum, so there's no room for characters to be trying to be, "philosophical". Do you find the overall musical score and look to try hard to be, "artsy", thus, "pretentious"? Because I love that kind of shit. @Azeew I disagree. I'm an extremely judgmental person. If I see someone acting weird, then I think they're weird. If an anime feels pretentious to me, then, from my perspective anyways, it's pretentious. Not talking "realistically" is not a flaw. I don't know what realistic dialogue sounds like. Sounds like an arbitrary flaw. |
| Proving such "Shiny works" by WOATanabe, Hideaki Anno, and Ikuhara makes less pretentious by far than being autistic |
-HippySnob-Jan 4, 2018 3:49 PM
 "Think about that glowing dust That destroys the night sky's dream of Just being nothing"--  -- |
NihilisticLoner said: PoeticJustice said: Not talking "realistically" is not a flaw. I don't know what realistic dialogue sounds like. Sounds like an arbitrary flaw. But it comes off as hammy. Anime like Bakemonogatari aren't the least bit subtle with any of their themes. They're constantly beaten into your head. It's possible to make interesting dialogue and have smart themes, while having the characters talk normally for the most part. Fate/Zero managed that. There's being a little up-your-own-ass and then there's constantly being up-your-own-ass. If you don't know what realistic dialogue sounds like, just think of how you and others talk to each other in real life, and compare that to anime dialogue. I vehemently disagree that the Monogatari series as a whole is pretentious, though i do think specific characters feel pretentious. Hanekawa, Gaen, & Ougi all can fit that description - especially in the sense that they look down on who they took to and have an implied air of superiority. |
 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
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