SINI5TER said: jennicide said: If people support taxation then they do consent to the seizing of their property and thus couldn't be considered thievery. you stole my heart tho son of a bitch. Is that so? I think I'll keep it ;) I have no regrets. |
lupadim said: oregairulover said: I don't want any of these services to be public. The private sector can perform all these with much more efficiency. I mean, sure, we can have a debate about how the justice system would work in a private sector, it's not an easy debate, but everything else, including the police, would be much more efficient in the private sector without a shred of doubt and you probably know this.if you have used the services like education which you have i think being able to read and write , safety by police and army , infrastructure ,judges who can convict someone for thievery and other crimes fairly and independently, all the rights given to you by the constitution of your county , etc given to you by your government and you don't pay taxes isn't that prtty much the worst kinda of thievery you could commit cuz you're stealing not from one person of organisation but from your society oregairulopver said: Only I can choose what I do with my property. My parents can't possibly throw me in a contract that will leech me for my lifetime.and you can say that you didn't make this choice but your parents did and their choice is now made for you your perents could not have registered you and if you're now like but i don't want it well you used services in your life when you were a child and at the time you didn't pay taxes yeah your parents paid some taxes in your name but that amount was nothing compared to the services you probably used how would we the people influence the private sector if you got many companies so for example one per ministery you'd get disorganisation among them which woudn't be the best for a state if you take one for everything you get a state that doesn't have any accountabillity to the people a.k.a a dictatorship and if you don't need these services to be public think about others most people would want this to be public so in the transision from government to your everything private setor idea people would probaby make it public because this like education and police would have to be public for poor people who otherwise can't find work in the age of information we're in. police would have to be public because they also keep up save on the street you can't be like ok he got your handbag ok i'll go after him for 20€ (yeah i oversimplefided it) and who would regulate the buissnsses or you think they can do whatever they want because i don't want a unregulated arny and police and many more unregulated things wouldn't be good and i don't think you want that either and how would we the people regulate them we can really hold an election against private companies another question if you think the private sector should do everything the goverment does now (and i guess you want this because a government without taxes would mean no government) who would make sure poor people still get the things because now the poorest people cost the government more than they give our society (ofc this isn't a critisism against poor peope many reasons exist to be poor and nobody wants to be poor i don't criticize them hell i'm below the poverty line here in the netherlands ) and i like all the things and i can't find a way i'd be able to pay for them who would make sure your rights are still uphold in a private secctor government because they don't care about most of them who would do diplomacy and handling outside threats? the politicans now who do this wouldn't be able to be paid without taxes and we do need them and how would the private sector make money from things like infrastructure (without far too high toll that would be bad for buissiness and the other private government pieces ) the army , police protecting rights they would probably have to be paid by all people on an annual basis kinda like taxes and that you don't want all these things doesn't mean nobody wants them however i think you like the internet infastructure the protection of your rights the army the police and there can't be a independent private judicinal service |
oregairulover said: Well, would you care to develop on why?lupadim said: I don't want any of these services to be public. The private sector can perform all these with much more efficiency. I mean, sure, we can have a debate about how the justice system would work in a private sector, it's not an easy debate, but everything else, including the police, would be much more efficient in the private sector without a shred of doubt and you probably know this. Only I can choose what I do with my property. My parents can't possibly throw me in a contract that will leech me for my lifetime. how would we the people influence the private sector if you got many companies so for example one per ministery you'd get disorganisation among them which woudn't be the best for a state if you take one for everything you get a state that doesn't have any accountabillity to the people a.k.a a dictatorship and if you don't need these services to be public think about others most people would want this to be public so in the transision from government to your everything private setor idea people would probaby make it public because this like education and police would have to be public for poor people who otherwise can't find work in the age of information we're in. police would have to be public because they also keep up save on the street you can't be like ok he got your handbag ok i'll go after him for 20€ (yeah i oversimplefided it) and who would regulate the buissnsses or you think they can do whatever they want because i don't want a unregulated arny and police and many more unregulated things wouldn't be good and i don't think you want that either and how would we the people regulate them we can really hold an election against private companies another question if you think the private sector should do everything the goverment does now (and i guess you want this because a government without taxes would mean no government) who would make sure poor people still get the things because now the poorest people cost the government more than they give our society (ofc this isn't a critisism against poor peope many reasons exist to be poor and nobody wants to be poor i don't criticize them hell i'm below the poverty line here in the netherlands ) and i like all the things and i can't find a way i'd be able to pay for them who would make sure your rights are still uphold in a private secctor government because they don't care about most of them who would do diplomacy and handling outside threats? the politicans now who do this wouldn't be able to be paid without taxes and we do need them and how would the private sector make money from things like infrastructure (without far too high toll that would be bad for buissiness and the other private government pieces ) the army , police protecting rights they would probably have to be paid by all people on an annual basis kinda like taxes and that you don't want all these things doesn't mean nobody wants them however i think you like the internet infastructure the protection of your rights the army the police and there can't be a independent private judicinal service |
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| If we pay taxes, that wouldn't really make us a thief since we're not receiving any of that taxation back and if we do on tax return, it's less tax then what we put in. I also know many, many people do not like taxes. Supporting Robin Hood doesn't make you a thief nor does paying taxes lupadim. What about you refusing to pay taxes? That's theft, you have to pay taxes to be a member of society what makes you think you can steal that priviledge for yourself? lupadim, I can make paying taxes look like theft and I can make not paying for taxes look like theft. If I don't pay tax, I am taking money and land that belongs to the government, the state, so I am a thief. I'm also stealing my right to be apart of the society. If I pay tax I am supporting the government in thieving money from people's pockets to put in their own. I am also stealing land off the original owners of the land that long has been forgotten so I am a land thief. I also could work for the government which gets paid in stolen money. The thread's statement is subjective af, I could go on more and more, but it would be like discussing why X anime is better than Y anime. |
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| The MODs have modified my thread's title. This is a classical example of government intervention. |
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Turnip said: That's true but there is a significant portion of people that receive much more than they pay for, especially in some countries and cities. And this includes the US. There are cities where the 1% pay 80% of that city's taxes, that's absurd and clearly the people there are benefiting of this plunder.If we pay taxes, that wouldn't really make us a thief since we're not receiving any of that taxation back and if we do on tax return, it's less tax then what we put in. I also know many, many people do not like taxes. Supporting Robin Hood doesn't make you a thief nor does paying taxes lupadim. Turnip said: First of all, "society" consists of a group of individuals, just like a "pack" is a group of wolves. There is literally nothing else to it. That's it, a term used to describe a high number of individuals occupying the same space. There is absolutely no reason why you would imply that I somehow need to pay money to be at the same space. As long as I am not violating anyone's property, I am fine.What about you refusing to pay taxes? That's theft, you have to pay taxes to be a member of society what makes you think you can steal that priviledge for yourself? Turnip said: Not really, no, you can'tlupadim, I can make paying taxes look like theft and I can make not paying for taxes look like theft. Turnip said: The government does not have any money. Every single penny was stolen from someone else. Furthermore, the government does not have any land, all of its land can be traced back to a specific individual, like public hospitals or schools. If I don't pay tax, I am taking money and land that belongs to the government, the state, so I am a thief. I'm also stealing my right to be apart of the society. Turnip said: That's a simplification but yes that's the logic.If I pay tax I am supporting the government in thieving money from people's pockets to put in their own. I am also stealing land off the original owners of the land that long has been forgotten so I am a land thief. I also could work for the government which gets paid in stolen money. Turnip said: These are all objective concepts. Beauty is objective. It's easy to prove why One Piece is the best anime, for example.The thread's statement is subjective af, I could go on more and more, but it would be like discussing why X anime is better than Y anime. |
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| I'd like to discuss what happened when the MODs modified the title of my thread. As you may know, MAL is a private website. Using this website is not a right -- unless we made a deal with the owner and negotiated using this, which we did not -- and the owner is free to do whatever they want, including censoring posts here, since it's their private property and they choose what stays. Now, a MOD saw a thread that I had created. This thread is clearly not my property, considering how this is a private website and such, but it is expected that I have at least some control over the content of my first post and the thread's title, right? Unfortunately the MODs hold the idea that they know better. "Oh, legislators! Miserable creatures! You who think you are so great! You, who think humanity is so little! You, willing to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would suffice." This perfectly fits here. Now, the MODs here are free to do this, seeing how it is a private website and such. Even though it is extremely stupid to do this since they are inhibiting the creativity of users and the development of this board's culture. But the government also does this on a much greater scale, and it does this while intervening on other people's private property, which is completely illegitimate. It seems we could learn a lot from the intervention that the MODs took in this thread. |
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| Your threads are always the greatest, OP |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| Well... Is that the best you all can do to defend the government's criminal practices? |
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| Go live in that unclaimed portion of Antarctica. http://www.antarctica.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0004/35833/varieties/antarctic.png |
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Ellert0 said: That'd be illegal as per the international norms. Else, we libertarians would be at it already.Go live in that unclaimed portion of Antarctica. http://www.antarctica.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0004/35833/varieties/antarctic.png |
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| Even if you support taxation in principle, I don't know how anyone who isn't a bum or a masochist can support current tax rates. The top federal income tax rate in the US is 47.3%*. Add in state income taxes and you're paying more than 50% of your money in income tax alone. Add in property taxes, sales taxes, and whatever else the socialists can dream up, and it's probably into the 60s or 70s. And still, people think taxes are too low, just because they're even higher in worse countries (look up Danish tax rates). What we need is a dramatic cut in spending and a corresponding cut in taxes, along with a repudiation of the national debt (the government might legitimately owe that money, but its subjects don't). In the mean time, there's no reason to work. Just go on welfare and devote your life to something other than making money. It isn't worth the tribute you have to pay to be middle class or rich when you can be comfortably poor for free. *people will say it's 39.6%, but that's a lie. When you add in Medicare and social security, it's 47.3%. These are taxes on income, so they should be called income taxes. |
| "My only agenda is to eviscerate any who might try to rule over and control me"- Sousuke Aizen "Maybe, just maybe, there is no purpose in life... but if you linger a while longer in this world, you might discover something of value in it"- Orochimaru "All men are not created equal... both in birth and in upbringing, in sheer scope of ability, every human is inherently different"- Charles zi Britannia We are the Contra Mundi. We serve the great inimical Goddess who in her own time will destroy the world. Tremble, reprobates, in fear of her pitiless gaze. |
| You should change your name to Lupus because we cant get rid of you Well Mr Lolbert, you know how annoying toll roads are? Without taxes all roads are toll roads. Good luck if you want to go anywhere it will take you several hours longer and if you forget change you cant get back |
traed said: Yes, paying for things can be unpleasant. Better than being coerced into paying for things you may not even use, like education and healthcare. And again, the rates are insanely high. Why should anyone, let alone a middle class person, have to pay more than half of their money in tribute?You should change your name to Lupus because we cant get rid of you Well Mr Lolbert, you know how annoying toll roads are? Without taxes all roads are toll roads. Good luck if you want to go anywhere it will take you several hours longer and if you forget change you cant get back |
| "My only agenda is to eviscerate any who might try to rule over and control me"- Sousuke Aizen "Maybe, just maybe, there is no purpose in life... but if you linger a while longer in this world, you might discover something of value in it"- Orochimaru "All men are not created equal... both in birth and in upbringing, in sheer scope of ability, every human is inherently different"- Charles zi Britannia We are the Contra Mundi. We serve the great inimical Goddess who in her own time will destroy the world. Tremble, reprobates, in fear of her pitiless gaze. |
byakugami said: traed said: Yes, paying for things can be unpleasant. Better than being coerced into paying for things you may not even use, like education and healthcare. And again, the rates are insanely high. Why should anyone, let alone a middle class person, have to pay more than half of their money in tribute?You should change your name to Lupus because we cant get rid of you Well Mr Lolbert, you know how annoying toll roads are? Without taxes all roads are toll roads. Good luck if you want to go anywhere it will take you several hours longer and if you forget change you cant get back I'm not surprised you never used education. |
lupadim said: Of course there's people like that lupadim no need to state obvious things, you didn't think I would know people exploit the system?Turnip said: That's true but there is a significant portion of people that receive much more than they pay for, especially in some countries and cities. And this includes the US. There are cities where the 1% pay 80% of that city's taxes, that's absurd and clearly the people there are benefiting of this plunder.If we pay taxes, that wouldn't really make us a thief since we're not receiving any of that taxation back and if we do on tax return, it's less tax then what we put in. I also know many, many people do not like taxes. Supporting Robin Hood doesn't make you a thief nor does paying taxes lupadim. lupadim said: There is absolutely no reason why you would imply that I somehow need to pay money to be at the same space. Maybe you don't understand that it's not your space. If you want to be somewhere in society you're already walking around on government owned land. You don't own any land in your country not even the house your deed says you own. If you want to be apart of that society, you need to pay your way in. If I have a magic show and I make people pay to see my act, am I a thief? I didn't earn that money, I just took it from people that wanted to be in "my space". Or does that sound stupid? I personally think it sounds unbelievably stupid but hey, if I want to spin the story that way, I easily can. lupadim said: The government owns that land, if you don't know the government owns the land your house is on then you obviously need to learn more about the world before speaking to me again.Turnip said: The government does not have any money. Every single penny was stolen from someone else. Furthermore, the government does not have any land, all of its land can be traced back to a specific individual, like public hospitals or schools. If I don't pay tax, I am taking money and land that belongs to the government, the state, so I am a thief. I'm also stealing my right to be apart of the society. lupadim said: Yes, and that's one side of the coin too. I can flip it over and make the other one look just as bad. Turnip said: That's a simplification but yes that's the logic.If I pay tax I am supporting the government in thieving money from people's pockets to put in their own. I am also stealing land off the original owners of the land that long has been forgotten so I am a land thief. I also could work for the government which gets paid in stolen money. lupadim said: You can't prove why one piece is the best anime, don't kid yourself lupadim. Maybe you can't tell your own opinion from fact, I'd recommend touching up on that dude.Turnip said: These are all objective concepts. Beauty is objective. It's easy to prove why One Piece is the best anime, for example.The thread's statement is subjective af, I could go on more and more, but it would be like discussing why X anime is better than Y anime. |
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Turnip said: Seems like it's not so obvious for you. That's not "exploiting the system", the system was built for that: making the rich pay for the poor. Most people are "exploiting the system" if that's what getting more and paying less mean.Of course there's people like that lupadim no need to state obvious things, you didn't think I would know people exploit the system? Turnip said: Maybe you don't understand that it's not your space. If you want to be somewhere in society you're already walking around on government owned land. You don't own any land in your country not even the house your deed says you own. If you want to be apart of that society, you need to pay your way in. What a delicious paragraph, you are completely disregarding property rights and pretending the government owns everything. Here's what happened: The State created an imaginary line and said "everything inside this is mine because I said so". And here you are claiming that my property is actually "government owned". But wrong you are, for through Locke's writings on property you will find that I have the birthright of acquiring property -- including land -- by infusing my work and my essence into it. The government never did that, but I did. Turnip said: It is not the same thing. I assume you are doing a magic show in an enclosed space that is your property. If that is the case you can make people pay up for any reason you want because your property means your rules. What you're missing here is that the State does not legitimately own anything, so the government can't claim anything.If I have a magic show and I make people pay to see my act, am I a thief? I didn't earn that money, I just took it from people that wanted to be in "my space". Or does that sound stupid? I personally think it sounds unbelievably stupid but hey, if I want to spin the story that way, I easily can. Turnip said: Such arrogance and imprudence coming from a fool that probably hasn't read a single book about the subject. Even the government itself would tell you that you are wrong here depending on which government we are talking about. The American one certainly would since they like to pretend people have actual property rights there. What matters is that you couldn't possibly be more wrong, yet you have the nerve to boast and show some arrogance.The government owns that land, if you don't know the government owns the land your house is on then you obviously need to learn more about the world before speaking to me again. Turnip said: Saying that the best anime is not an objective concept is like saying we can't tell which piece of art is the best because beauty is subjective, your relativism fogs your judgment and strives you away from the truth.You can't prove why one piece is the best anime, don't kid yourself lupadim. Maybe you can't tell your own opinion from fact, I'd recommend touching up on that dude. |
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traed said: How foolish. Aren't you paying for it anyway? Regardless of whether it is in the form of taxes or tolls. Thing is, with tolls you'll only pay for the specific roads you're using, while with taxes you will be paying for literally every single road. And you will also be paying the part of people that are not paying for it, the freeloaders.You should change your name to Lupus because we cant get rid of you Well Mr Lolbert, you know how annoying toll roads are? Without taxes all roads are toll roads. Good luck if you want to go anywhere it will take you several hours longer and if you forget change you cant get back And that assuming every road would actually be a toll road. That'd be highly inefficient for everyone involved, the owners of said roads included since they too need to use other roads, so it'd be within everyone's best interests to adopt a better system. |
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| Lol "government owned land". Everything the government "owns" it got by stealing. This just proves that liberals really are all communists. Maybe not by politics, but by morals. Seriously. Just don't work. Western countries are ignoring one key aspect of socialism: forced labor. Socialist societies think that they own the individuals unfortunate enough to inhabit them, so they've always traditionally forced them to labor. The US and many other Western countries don't do that. That's the way to resist (along with tax evasion, which is a great moral good, but unfortunately dangerous). Just don't work. Give them nothing. In a welfare state where labor is punished, rational people become tax eaters. Stop giving back. It's time to take back from society. |
| "My only agenda is to eviscerate any who might try to rule over and control me"- Sousuke Aizen "Maybe, just maybe, there is no purpose in life... but if you linger a while longer in this world, you might discover something of value in it"- Orochimaru "All men are not created equal... both in birth and in upbringing, in sheer scope of ability, every human is inherently different"- Charles zi Britannia We are the Contra Mundi. We serve the great inimical Goddess who in her own time will destroy the world. Tremble, reprobates, in fear of her pitiless gaze. |
lupadim said: Yes I have met a dole/wellfare bludger in my life, I have seen multi-billion dollar companies dodge tax, I also know the higher taxes the richer you are. What are you trying to achieve by telling me obvious if I already know it?Turnip said: Seems like it's not so obvious for you. That's not "exploiting the system", the system was built for that: making the rich pay for the poor. Most people are "exploiting the system" if that's what getting more and paying less mean.Of course there's people like that lupadim no need to state obvious things, you didn't think I would know people exploit the system? lupadim said: If you're new to how the government works I can see why you seem so spiteful, but honestly dude the government owns it, you can say all you want about it being your land but the state will own the land if you don't agree you can buy a boat and head out to international waters where you can try and claim some unowned land and call it your own. Otherwise too late bro, that land's already been gobbled up by another person to took that land whether by force or peace. It's theirs you want it you gotta take it by force or buy it off the government. I've seen people buy their land before, hell even in my country we already have a large amount of people creating micro-nations.Turnip said: Maybe you don't understand that it's not your space. If you want to be somewhere in society you're already walking around on government owned land. You don't own any land in your country not even the house your deed says you own. If you want to be apart of that society, you need to pay your way in. What a delicious paragraph, you are completely disregarding property rights and pretending the government owns everything. Here's what happened: The State created an imaginary line and said "everything inside this is mine because I said so". And here you are claiming that my property is actually "government owned". But wrong you are, for through Locke's writings on property you will find that I have the birthright of acquiring property -- including land -- by infusing my work and my essence into it. The government never did that, but I did. lupadim said: Look lupadim, you can tell it to me once, you can tell it to me twice but it will never be correct not in anybody else's head other than your delusional conclusion.What you're missing here is that the State does not legitimately own anything, so the government can't claim anything. lupadim said: Okay that hypocritical paragraph made me laugh. :)Such arrogance and imprudence coming from a fool that probably hasn't read a single book about the subject. Even the government itself would tell you that you are wrong here depending on which government we are talking about. The American one certainly would since they like to pretend people have actual property rights there. What matters is that you couldn't possibly be more wrong, yet you have the nerve to boast and show some arrogance. lupadim said: Beauty is subjective, I can tell you miss universe isn't the most beautiful girl in my eyes but she sure is stunning. Beauty is highly subjective but you can take an objective take on it (aka bringing in experienced judges), I'm not saying you can't have an objective outlook on things but I'm saying at the end of the day it's gonna boil down to opinions when it comes to what's best.Saying that the best anime is not an objective concept is like saying we can't tell which piece of art is the best because beauty is subjective, your relativism fogs your judgment and strives you away from the truth. |
TurnipJul 29, 2017 10:36 PM
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Turnip said: You really have no reading comprehension and I won't explain the same point for a third time.Yes I have met a dole/wellfare bludger in my life, I have seen multi-billion dollar companies dodge tax, I also know the higher taxes the richer you are. What are you trying to achieve by telling me obvious if I already know it? Turnip said: Explain why the State owns everything then.If you're new to how the government works I can see why you seem so spiteful, but honestly dude the government owns it, you can say all you want about it being your land but the state will own the land if you don't agree you can buy a boat and head out to international waters where you can try and claim some unowned land and call it your own. Otherwise too late bro, that land's already been gobbled up by another person to took that land whether by force or peace. It's theirs you want it you gotta take it by force or buy it off the government. I've seen people buy their land before, hell even in my country we already have a large amount of people creating micro-nations. Turnip said: Probably because it's your defense mechanism.Okay that hypocritical paragraph made me laugh. :) Turnip said: Take your post-modern relativism away from my board, moral cannibal. Beauty is subjective |
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| Why support being forced to comply by point of government gun? That's really all taxes and laws are. The amount of times the government can send a SWAT team to your house in the middle of the night to point a gun at your head and blow your brains out if you resist. If you can't count the number of times the government can do this on one hand, then it's probably too big. |
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lupadim said: Why would you need to explain the same point 3 times for something I already knew...?Turnip said: You really have no reading comprehension and I won't explain the same point for a third time.Yes I have met a dole/wellfare bludger in my life, I have seen multi-billion dollar companies dodge tax, I also know the higher taxes the richer you are. What are you trying to achieve by telling me obvious if I already know it? lupadim said: I don't need to explain anything dude that's the thing, go outside and find out for yourself. It doesn't matter how many silly conclusions you cook up in your head, you're still not gonna own your land unless you purchase it off the government. That's fact, that's how the world works even if you don't like and you think you can present a onesided argument and say it's fact.Turnip said: Explain why the State owns everything then.If you're new to how the government works I can see why you seem so spiteful, but honestly dude the government owns it, you can say all you want about it being your land but the state will own the land if you don't agree you can buy a boat and head out to international waters where you can try and claim some unowned land and call it your own. Otherwise too late bro, that land's already been gobbled up by another person to took that land whether by force or peace. It's theirs you want it you gotta take it by force or buy it off the government. I've seen people buy their land before, hell even in my country we already have a large amount of people creating micro-nations. lupadim said: No I was just generally enjoying that hypocritical paragraph, gave me a good chuckle.Turnip said: Probably because it's your defense mechanism.Okay that hypocritical paragraph made me laugh. :) |
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lupadim said: traed said: How foolish. Aren't you paying for it anyway? Regardless of whether it is in the form of taxes or tolls. Thing is, with tolls you'll only pay for the specific roads you're using, while with taxes you will be paying for literally every single road. And you will also be paying the part of people that are not paying for it, the freeloaders.You should change your name to Lupus because we cant get rid of you Well Mr Lolbert, you know how annoying toll roads are? Without taxes all roads are toll roads. Good luck if you want to go anywhere it will take you several hours longer and if you forget change you cant get back And that assuming every road would actually be a toll road. That'd be highly inefficient for everyone involved, the owners of said roads included since they too need to use other roads, so it'd be within everyone's best interests to adopt a better system. Tolls interfere with your travel times. If certain roads don't turn enough profit they would simply close them down so you could lose all roads that go to places you need to go from your house. Have fun walking a few hundred miles regularly then have your house burn down while you're away because you couldnt pay the fire department due to losing your job for being late because you had to walk. |
lupadim said: oregairulover said: Well, would you care to develop on why?how would we the people influence the private sector if you got many companies so for example one per ministery you'd get disorganisation among them which woudn't be the best for a state if you take one for everything you get a state that doesn't have any accountabillity to the people a.k.a a dictatorship and if you don't need these services to be public think about others most people would want this to be public so in the transision from government to your everything private setor idea people would probaby make it public because this like education and police would have to be public for poor people who otherwise can't find work in the age of information we're in. police would have to be public because they also keep up save on the street you can't be like ok he got your handbag ok i'll go after him for 20€ (yeah i oversimplefided it) and who would regulate the buissnsses or you think they can do whatever they want because i don't want a unregulated arny and police and many more unregulated things wouldn't be good and i don't think you want that either and how would we the people regulate them we can really hold an election against private companies another question if you think the private sector should do everything the goverment does now (and i guess you want this because a government without taxes would mean no government) who would make sure poor people still get the things because now the poorest people cost the government more than they give our society (ofc this isn't a critisism against poor peope many reasons exist to be poor and nobody wants to be poor i don't criticize them hell i'm below the poverty line here in the netherlands ) and i like all the things and i can't find a way i'd be able to pay for them who would make sure your rights are still uphold in a private secctor government because they don't care about most of them who would do diplomacy and handling outside threats? the politicans now who do this wouldn't be able to be paid without taxes and we do need them and how would the private sector make money from things like infrastructure (without far too high toll that would be bad for buissiness and the other private government pieces ) the army , police protecting rights they would probably have to be paid by all people on an annual basis kinda like taxes and that you don't want all these things doesn't mean nobody wants them however i think you like the internet infastructure the protection of your rights the army the police and there can't be a independent private judicinal service wait you read that thing and was like that last point yeah he gotta explain that. all those question he asked about a society without government (yeah they're all questions) i can skip all of those so yeah please answer them. pretty please. and please with a sence of realism so with the same kinds of idiots we have right now. and please do that before making points on my answer below you can surely do that but please do it after but for your question ' sorry i forgot the amarican system with jury but even there judges still have influence they van make a guilty verdict into a not guilty verdict. but where i live we only got judges so i was thinking in a only judges system. however i think the same problem would apply on a jury system it depends if you do it in one company (what would be the most probable because with many of them you'd get a mess of different organasation structures and different guidelines making it almost impossible to regulate making it possible to do whatever they want) the judges would be paid by a company who boss would have to make money. without a government judges can't be protected because instead of a person just making budgets like a secratary would you got a actual boss a guy oly caring about money and because the judicinal system is the one who would make sure that jusges aren't bribed that's the problem instead of wanting to make sure your laws are reinforced in a honest way so people will be happy making it more of a chance you'll get reelected like a secretary. you care about money something a single person can bring you quite a lot of. so as a secretary a not independent judicinal system would be a problem you'd want to solve because it makes public outcry which could you fired or lowering your chance of reelection. but as boss why would you nobody would stop you because there wouldn't be a governmet who regulates you without taxes which was your point. btw who would pay if you make the one who is on trial pay it would be dishonest it would make being on trial a punishment without being convicted if you make the convicted pay the judges would be very he's guilty if budget was tight if you make the victim pay you'd make it very unlikely for ppor people to ever report a crime making poor people's life a purge at all times so everyone would have to pay on an annual basis kinda like taxes for a jury system btw who would make sure independent juries would be chosen by the company |
Turnip said: It's not that you don't "need" to explain, it's more that you "can't". An organization claimed to own everything and you believed them because you are probably too learning impaired to open a book and find for yourself that maybe they don't have the legitimacy to "own everything" as you say. And that is something I can't fix, nor do I want to.I don't need to explain anything dude that's the thing. oregairulover said: Order always emanates from anarchy. There is anarchy everywhere in today's society, even in the government, as much of a paradox as this may sound like. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" thesis was the basis for new theories that would postulate the market brings order by itself, even when individuals are acting for their own selfish needs.how would we the people influence the private sector if you got many companies so for example one per ministery you'd get disorganisation among them which woudn't be the best for a state if you take one for everything you get a state that doesn't have any accountabillity to the people a.k.a a dictatorship oregairulover said: One man's hunger does not justify another man's plunder. These poor people should find help from honest means, like charity or voluntarism. No one owes anyone anything other than non-aggression.and if you don't need these services to be public think about others oregairulover said: The individuals of a given community would probably need to communicate and cooperate in order to solve many challenges, such as the justice system, road tolls and poor people. I can guarantee one thing: Charity is exponentially more efficient than government "free stuff". If you took just a fraction of what the government has to spend and gave it to the charity sector you'd do as much as good as the government does with 100% of the money since the private sector is really infinitely more efficient. I'm sure they would figure out something.another question if you think the private sector should do everything the goverment does now (and i guess you want this because a government without taxes would mean no government) who would make sure poor people still get the things But I will say this again: The existence of poor people does not justify theft or plunder. If we help them that's just a bonus, it's not needed by any means. oregairulover said: The only rights you have are property rights, you can defend these yourself or hire someone to do it for you. I'm sure there'd be private companies focused on that since there'd be demand, and where there's demand there is offer.who would make sure your rights are still uphold in a private secctor government because they don't care about most of them oregairulover said: Your community could find someone willing to do that and pay them accordingly.who would do diplomacy and handling outside threats? the politicans now who do this wouldn't be able to be paid without taxes and we do need them oregairulover said: There's a very classic formula for this kind of thing:and how would the private sector make money from things like infrastructure (without far too high toll that would be bad for buissiness and the other private government pieces ) the army , police protecting rights they would probably have to be paid by all people on an annual basis kinda like taxes Is the service you are talking about important? If it is, would you pay for it if you weren't forced to? If so, then it would exist privately. If it is not important, then the government shouldn't be taking care of it anyway. And if you wouldn't pay for it if you weren't forced to, then it is not actually important. [/quote] |
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lupadim said: See how this is all your opinion? Well dude, go outside and see how the world really works. I've told you this once, I've told you this twice but seriously dude, it's how the world works.Turnip said: It's not that you don't "need" to explain, it's more that you "can't". An organization claimed to own everything and you believed them because you are probably too learning impaired to open a book and find for yourself that maybe they don't have the legitimacy to "own everything" as you say. And that is something I can't fix, nor do I want to.I don't need to explain anything dude that's the thing. The government owns everything, if you don't want to follow the government, form your own micro-nation, otherwise you're stuck under the government's power because the government controls your "space", that's part n parcel of how countries work. I don't know how you haven't realized this before, you're almost a grown man lol. You can use your opinion all you want lupadim, but your opinion doesn't mean shit against the truth. Read all the fictional books you want, the government's probably going to own that library too. |
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