| I not being influenced by the bad qualities of anime;no, I am watching anime because of the bad qualities |
Illyricus said: he meant relative as in "considered in relation or in proportion to something else", not as in "a person connected by blood or marriage"Incest as a bad thing is really relative, however. i was quite surprised when i found out that my country is one of the few that bans cousin marriages `-` i thought that was the norm (in europe at least) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#/media/File:CousinMarriageWorld.svg Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post. |
TenshoSep 23, 2016 6:28 AM
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Bulma777 said: Pretty sure it was in episode 9 of Hellsing UltimateI have not seen this before- was it in the OVA he had the fight with the nazi guy? |
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| Common sense dictates us not to follow those. |
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| I don't think people are actually that open about rape in real life tho, I mean who even opens up they're otaku? lul |
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| You got point TC, but i already see epic fail here, try again. 1. You're being too serious And... you use 2. Naruto as good example You try to remind us, however that "girl in front of you" example is out of topic, it's just MAL user here, nothing to do with anime. |
| Well, I'd day escapism is the whole point. You watch anime to imagine a world other than your own. The thing is, for every anime that depicts these issues in a trashy way, there is probably one that treats them with maturity to challenge your way of thinking (they are, admittedly, usually less talked about and don't sell as well and thus harder to find). In that way it's like any other entertainment medium. |
Minerva_WiseOwl said: So many against the OP Bulma777 said: but i am little shocked how people become that aggresive and abuse others for telling their opinion only becuase they disagree I thought this forum is here to discuss different meanings??? It depends on the way the forumites see the OP's intent. 1) OP raised a topic that is obviously provocative. 2) OP operates on an alien morality that derides escapism and incest. 3) OP's account looks like a secondary troll account, because of the general lack of content in it, in spite of being here for around a year. 4) OP isn't respectful enough of the touchy topic he/she wants to talk about. Especially in his/her claim that Btoom presents rape as something good or normal. Overall, it looks like provocation, not as an intent to seriously discuss something. teruu said: Getting mad & telling someone to die just because he believes anime has negative traits. Oh my! And I wonder what influenced you to say that, it's obviously not anime. As a general rule, anime-themed communities should be safe space from anime haters outside of them. Anybody who thinks escapism is a bad thing is an outsider who should be extra polite in a place like this. merryfistmas said: I like how everyone seems to think that anime can teach them positive things while refusing to acknowledge the opposite. Well, we are people with free will. We take things that suit us, and leave aside things we don't want. teruu said: Sexualisation, sure no one really cares.. till its hyper sexualised. — characterized tits. Not female characters with any personality to speak of, but supple, bouncy, comically large breasts. The women these breasts were attached to were not represented by their spectacular intelligence, or their bravery in battle so much as the fact that they were in possession of breasts (and in a few cases, an ass). Where the fuck do you see that in TV shows? Or games? Tomb Raider? Behold, this is Mai-sempai from Musaigen no Phantom World: https://myanimelist.net/character/132429/Mai_Kawakami She is the main character, she kicks ass and takes names. She is a good friend, a responsible mother, and lots of other things. She also has nice bouncy breasts. And many viewers, like you, fail to notice everything else, their attention glued to her breasts. ----------------Less serious answers below:----------------------- jal90 said: I like that for once the focus is put on these polemic, morally devastating and taboo subjects in society that are part of the reality of anime, such as escapism. Escapism is a modern rehash of drapetomania. It's about the time for revenge against people who vilify escapists. teruu said: How many people do you see acting weird in a gaming zone compared to people in an anime club? I sure know where lots of people are acting weird and violent. That's football matches. Police doesn't need to be present wherever anime fans gather. In anime clubs, people are perfectly normal. Where "normal" is whatever I think is normal for an anime fan, because moral relativism. teruu said: Lmfao what's even more hilarious is the ratio of males to females. Even though there are more girls who watch anime than play fucking Call of Duty, you'll see extremely few females at anime conventions. [evil]Have you tried going to conventions in proper countries, not Saudi Arabia?[/evil] teruu said: Also feel free to encourage incest because of all the free will bullshit but once again you have no idea about the downsides of it. If you ever have a child through incest which is basically incest in its psychical form, he will most likely be deformed and suffer from extreme cognitive damage. There's a reason it isn't encouraged at all, research it before you preach your acceptance toward it. 1) First-generation children of incest are unlikely to have serious problems. It's long-term incest that is troublesome. 2) Who cares? Genetic engineering will solve it all. teruu said: I'm not going to bother with your pedophilia para, it hurts to see one even try to jokingly defend such a thing. [evil]Pedophilia is a sexual orientation. Stop discriminating against pedophiles. Damn pedophobes.[/evil] |
| The fact that society appreciates the good things that anime teaches more than the offensive ones, I think bringing up topics like these is a bit miopic.I mean we appreciate anime not because it brings up things like escapism, rape and the like, right? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Bro, anything can teach you negative things these days. If that's a negative thing, then it's that person's fault for following it instead of NOT following it. |
| I miss my GIFs of old ass memes. |
| The question is, which medium doesn't??? |
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| Forgive me for not knowing how to use quotes. All quotes are from the OP. - - - - - "Tons of users here use words like 'rape' liberally, like when someone posts 'This anime girl is in front of you, what would you do?', they will often reply with rape. Rape is nothing to joke about and neither are the negative qualities anime spreads." The best way to overcome a tragedy or trauma in one's past is to learn to balance the serious aspect of it with the rest of life. Sure, saying 'rape' as an answer isn't classy, far from it. It usually is pretty derogatory. But this isn't remotely an anime-only thing. Nay, this affects every @$$hole from the age of 12 to 112, talking about fictional characters, celebrities, or even the co-workers just three cubicles over. Usually, it is used as a connotation stating that they would indeed like to mate, aggressively, with that person/character, but rape is typically not the actual intention. In a situation where the other party is putting up a fight, the effort to actually subdue and rape is not worth the 'reward', and the possible consequences make it even less appealing. So I'll agree that this term is tasteless, because it is being used in a connotation that the term actually isn't meant to imply, and is used too loosely. But again, this is not an anime-only issue. And now for the picture. I love this picture. This pic will be my new troll bait pic. 'Incest' Do you actually know anyone who actively admits they have an attraction to a close relative? Because I sincerely have not met anyone yet. Sure, there is the occasional shock news report, but there is never a connection shown between that and anime with incestuous themes. (Granted, I'm speaking with Western World mindset, not particularly Japanese mindset. Things might be way different over there) 'Escapism' Escapism is fine...in moderation. And while sure, anime might promote escapism at first, that obviously doesn't hold water with older audiences and audiences that have been exposed to the medium longer. Older audiences are already going to be engaged in work, job, possibly even families, and will not be in a place in their life where anime/manga, or any entertainment-based escapism, is able to overtake their life. For those who are involved in the community for several years, they will have to go and pursue jobs to support this escapism, and will have to subtract a little bit away from this escapism to support it as a whole. In addition, this will lead to said person engaging with more people, and henceforth gain a wider exposure to the world. Again, this counters the point of escapism. Pedophilia I'll concede here. Animated child pron is still child pr0n. 'Sexualization of Women' I think the term you might be looking for is 'Sexualization of Men and Women.' There are just as many examples of women being held up as a sexual beacon as men. And you know what, I'm fine with that. Western society is pretty outdated with it's current viewpoint of sexualization and sexual identity, and while I won't say that we should jump to the Japanese interpretation of it all, it might be a good place to start. 'Edginess' ...Is this a joke? Not only is this a term that is frequently misused in regards to its' definition, the term that it is used to substitute is non-existent, and so large/broad that it becomes impossible to identify. 'Rape' ...You do realize that Hentai is only a sub-genre of anime, right? And that outside of Hentai, whenever rape is used, it's typically played for drama. It is rarely, if ever, played for laughs, and almost never played as a positive thing. To assume that anime is the single causing factor would be simple minded. Might it be an ingredient, or a catalyst for some people? Absolutely. So should we take it away just to 'save' those people? No. Let society weed the more corrupted individuals out over time. Social Natural Selection is a *very* real thing, let it run its' course without trying to hinder it/make it harder. |
InsaneLeader13Sep 22, 2016 7:28 AM
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
| But this is really stupid Other mediums have all of these things as well Incest? Game Of Thrones is what you're looking for It's like saying you should ban anime because it's violent and sexual, even though things like video games are exactly the same. And why should anime influence people to do these things any more than other mediums that contain them should? Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post. |
TenshoSep 23, 2016 6:30 AM
BaconKingpin said: Yea. Post this on either 4chan on some feminist boards to get some actual "serious" answers... I can't believe you posted this on MAL lol. MAL is the worst place to look for a serious response. Inb4 just another case of plebs not being to differ fiction from reality... *sigh* |
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| lol! ( ‾ ʖ̫ ‾) everything have 2 sides, good and bad. even your mother teach you bad things sometimes. but yes! perverted stuff is very strong in anime :D violence is normal for entertainment though |
The world is cruel, ugly and pitiful. Let's watch anime and make it colorful |
| Of course...And Danganronpa brainwashes people irl into adoring the act of spreading mindless chaos and destruction in the name of DESPAIR... |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| Some of your points are certainly promoted. But... About escapism: literally any fiction work does it. Not so long ago, fiction books (novels) were seen as a way for the readers to escape their reality and society instead of confronting it and be useful. Novels a teacher would ask you to read in our time were seen as a useless travel in an imaginary world. There were even novels about people running away from the reality (see Lewic Carrol). About rape: until recently, the only anime I watched with such an event were Urotsukifoji and Ima soku ni iru boku. In one instance, it was purely for the mix of horror and sex the anime wanted to be (and the rape was of course supposed to be some torture). In Ima soku, it certainky wasn't here to teach me to rape but rather to illustrate the horror of certain themes. I doubt any animation will promote something like rape. About edginess: it isn't even a word to begin with. And edge is used to positively talk about something who tried further than what is usually done. (not sure if I wrote it right). |
Rei_IIISep 22, 2016 9:04 AM
| This post reminded me of an argument I heard recently and I figured it could be interesting to you OP, since it's connected to this post. So it's basically this, Bret Easton Ellis (writer, known for works like American Psycho, Less than Zero, Rules of Attraction etc.; maybe you heard of him) is criticizing the contemporary film medium and it's preference of ideology over aesthetics. Biggest sign of that were the latest Oscars and other big awards winners, but also the general state of movies, who to a big degree try to promote already accepted good morals, rather than to present subversive and unique ideas and ground breaking cinema. Whether you agree or not is one thing, but my point is a different one; This basically rises the question how much good moral-promotion is good in tv and film. This applies to anime as well. Personally I think it's a good thing for kid and teen audiences to have positive morals, but things, that are for older audiences don't really need to teach any such thing, because as adults we should be capable to reflect upon things ourselves. Anime is not just a medium for kids, so this thought is relevant. Then again alot of the things shown in anime are determined by consumerism, but that's a story for a different time. |
| to be utterly honest here the incest, escapism, pedophilia and sexualisation of women could have been all covered by ngnl. Rei366 said: About edginess: it isn't even a word to begin with. And edge is used to positively talk about something who tried further than what is usually done. (not sure if I wrote it right). edginess has essentially become a word, at least colloquially. it's not always positive either, it's mostly used to describe emos and anime that try too hard to be dark from what ive seen. it could be argued that many of these negative themes are common in other forms of media so it's not just anime |
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| Yes anime does teach some fucked up things... But it's whether you listen to them or not. There are plenty of anime out there that don't feature any of those things. There are alot of animes out there that are NOT HEALTHY. That's why I think anime fans should spend more time looking for content that doesn't contain these things, or hints towards these things. I think alot of anime fans goes through a moe sort of phase, but it's whether you wake up to how fucked up some of these themes are or continue down the path of watching... Uhhh... The things stated in OPs pic. I just find it sad that I can't be open about my love of anime due to the unscrupulous types of anime and fans out there. People will just assume I'm into really creepy shit when that's not the case. |
OpiumSamaSep 22, 2016 10:37 AM
| “Existence is.. well.. what does it matter? I exist on the best terms I can. The past is now part of my future. The present is well out of hand.” -Ian Curtis |
| Wow, that entire first post describes Game of Throne pretty well. |
| well, anime only shows negative things, not to give us a tutorial how to do it. :D |
teruu said: Tons of users here use words like 'rape' liberally, like when someone posts 'This anime girl is in front of you, what would you do?', they will often reply with rape. Rape is nothing to joke about and neither are the negative qualities anime spreads. Why not? Because you find it offensive? Because if that's the case, I'm just going to do it more =] Not female characters with any personality to speak of, but supple, bouncy, comically large breasts. The women these breasts were attached to were not represented by their spectacular intelligence, or their bravery in battle so much as the fact that they were in possession of breasts (and in a few cases, an ass) Most people who watch ecchi, while entertained by the nudity, are quite fond of each character's personality. Hence why you have waifu and best girl wars. People do take into consideration the personality of characters when they decide who is their favorite. Anime fans will always blame the actions of the affected otaku, that he is just a rare case who has his social interaction harmed by anime and never the source of the problem. Do you have an statistical evidence that shows this is not the case? |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| Hoo boy... Yes it does have negative things, but pretty much every entertainment media out there produces what some people would consider morally bad. Look at video games like COD or GTA, but its still popular. Why should anime be treated different? If you dont like "morally" bad things in entertainment, then i suggest sticking to E-10 stuff OP |
 The peasant is bound by the king. The king is bound by the peasants and their kingdom. But the Viking is bound to nothing but themselves. |
| OP's right. People are deluded enough to think that incest, escapism and sexualization of little girls are okay and that's why I hate most anime. Apart from being a disgusting pile of poor execution and cliched characters, it actually has the balls to give stupid and unhealthy lessons like those. Like, fuck. You people who say otherwise don't know what you're talking about. The thought that people actually go against OP disgusts me. This is the kind of shit that makes me hate the anime community. |
OduduwaSep 22, 2016 12:45 PM
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| Hey, watch what you want. No one's telling you what to watch. It's the same with books, too, of course. Every medium has its ups and downs. |
  WORK IN PROGRESS ~The frog leapt forth to my lilypad memory.~ I was indoctrinated by an inamorata rabbit, Adenomata affronted. It was the verecund, dismissed creatures That I jubilated in most. This rabbit I would nurture, At the aiguille of esse, The anneal of noblesse. ❤️ Birdie ❤️ |
| Sexualisation is a bad thing? Looks like we're so "progressive" that we're progressing beyond conventional passage of time and have ended up back in the 16th century. |
| You're right, anime is currently full of a lot of negative elements, but so is all media nowadays. As long as there will be fools to eat it up, it will never go away, sigh! I think escapism is slowly becoming a big issue for our modern day world, nobody wants to face reality anymore, everyone wants "safe spaces" and complete denial of their ongoing lives. I don't know where we are headed, but it's definitely not a pretty place. It's ok, OP, I understand what you are saying and agree with you. But telling mad men that they are mad will only drive them further into insanity and denial. LE: I need to mention, I took your post as the rational, critical thinking type and not as the preachy, feminist type. I hope I wasn't mistaken. |
MZXJSep 22, 2016 4:08 PM
"I came here to sniff Madoka panties and kick witch ass and I am all out 'doka panties" - Homora Akemi |
| One time on a school camping trip before departure. Boy A : First thing I'm gonna do at the camp. Boy B : Ya? Boy A : I'm gonna sneak into the hot springs and peek at the girls. Boy B : Dude, that only happens in anime. Me(in my head) : oh... Note : Btw just regular camping in America no hot springs on this trip btw. |
| i can tell the rape part comes from "hentai", cuz there is hardly any non-hentai anime in which a male sees a girl and he immediately wants to rape her. So if we solely focus on the normal animes, then there shouldn't be issue regarding the reaction of "what would you do when you see a cute girl in front of you" |
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| @flannan, we don't have free will, we're products of our environment just like animals. If somebody is conditioned think that torture is acceptable, they will think it is acceptable. media, propaganda, advertisements, and art all have a profound effect on us, and while I don't think it is art's responsibility to teach us right from wrong, what is created and what is popular is very telling of our values and priorities. Please note, I'm not targeting fetishes, I understand that an unbelievable amount of people (male and female, one of my best friend's wife has a rape fetish and apparently they play it out) have fetishes as extreme as rape (and everything else you you can think of) and that porn and other media cater to that, and that it is the parent/guardians responsibility to regulate what a minor consumes. I also understand tha most unsavory material is targeted towards those who are 20+ anyways. sjo said: pretty much this. People will defend escapism and just about anything else to te death. MAL is not the place to argue against media being harmful, people get too offended.You're right, anime is currently full of a lot of negative elements, but so is all media nowadays. As long as there will be fools to eat it up, it will never go away, sigh! I think escapism is slowly becoming a big issue for our modern day world, nobody wants to face reality anymore, everyone wants "safe spaces" and complete denial of their ongoing lives. I don't know where we are headed, but it's definitely not a pretty place. It's ok, OP, I understand what you are saying and agree with you. But telling mad men that they are mad will only drive them further into insanity and denial. LE: I need to mention, I took your post as the rational, critical thinking type and not as the preachy, feminist type. I hope I wasn't mistaken. |
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| As well? I didn't know anime taught anything positive, to begin with. |
| So? Cry me a river. Does anime have negative tones such as rape or incest? Sure. Do I care? Should you care? No. |
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| Anime teaches us misogyny as well OP, never forget! Anime is bad and we should feel sorry for fapping to cartoon......( - v - ) |
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| I can't take seriously someone believing that incest is an atrocity, i cannot take seriously someone who hasn't take it''s freedom of mind, unable to form an opinion out of his Ego, and is directly influenced by a book that directly enslave people's mind, and take all their freedom of thought. Consensual incest is not a bad thing, as much as homosexuality and love between chilhood friends. Plus you added edginess, which means you condemn individuation, and eccentricity. It's time to grow up and evolve, the prehistoric era has finished since a long long time ago. |
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merryfistmas said: @flannan, we don't have free will, we're products of our environment just like animals. If somebody is conditioned think that torture is acceptable, they will think it is acceptable. media, propaganda, advertisements, and art all have a profound effect on us, and while I don't think it is art's responsibility to teach us right from wrong, what is created and what is popular is very telling of our values and priorities. Please note, I'm not targeting fetishes, I understand that an unbelievable amount of people (male and female, one of my best friend's wife has a rape fetish and apparently they play it out) have fetishes as extreme as rape (and everything else you you can think of) and that porn and other media cater to that, and that it is the parent/guardians responsibility to regulate what a minor consumes. I also understand tha most unsavory material is targeted towards those who are 20+ anyways. Sure, we are affected by our environment and by our genes. Does it means that all of us imitate villains we see in media? Or the bad habits of our favorite characters? I don't think so. We can choose, even if that choice is guided by our previous experiences, ideology and instincts. robiu013 said: This post reminded me of an argument I heard recently and I figured it could be interesting to you OP, since it's connected to this post. So it's basically this, Bret Easton Ellis (writer, known for works like American Psycho, Less than Zero, Rules of Attraction etc.; maybe you heard of him) is criticizing the contemporary film medium and it's preference of ideology over aesthetics. Biggest sign of that were the latest Oscars and other big awards winners, but also the general state of movies, who to a big degree try to promote already accepted good morals, rather than to present subversive and unique ideas and ground breaking cinema. Whether you agree or not is one thing, but my point is a different one; This basically rises the question how much good moral-promotion is good in tv and film. This applies to anime as well. Personally I think it's a good thing for kid and teen audiences to have positive morals, but things, that are for older audiences don't really need to teach any such thing, because as adults we should be capable to reflect upon things ourselves. Anime is not just a medium for kids, so this thought is relevant. Then again alot of the things shown in anime are determined by consumerism, but that's a story for a different time. Thank you. I think it's the best answer in this thread. Unless people can tell what's good and what's evil, nothing good will come out of that. Morally ambiguous/complicated fiction is a good place for practice. sjo said: I think escapism is slowly becoming a big issue for our modern day world, nobody wants to face reality anymore, everyone wants "safe spaces" and complete denial of their ongoing lives. I don't know where we are headed, but it's definitely not a pretty place. Personally, I'm looking forward to the new shape of the world as our informational environment fractures. It will probably make a whole lot of new philosophical questions. Like "is communication with next-door neighbors possible? If yes, then to what extent?" Politics would be fun too. Vote for Flannan, your candidate from Anime Party! Rei366 said: About rape: until recently, the only anime I watched with such an event were Urotsukifoji and Ima soku ni iru boku. In one instance, it was purely for the mix of horror and sex the anime wanted to be (and the rape was of course supposed to be some torture). In Ima soku, it certainky wasn't here to teach me to rape but rather to illustrate the horror of certain themes. I doubt any animation will promote something like rape. Some of the mainstream anime that has rape in it: Berserk (because it's edgy as fuck, and rape is just a part of the way their cruel world is fucked up), Ookami-san to Shichinin no Nakama-tachi (it's a big problem in the titular character's past, and her friends help her overcome the trauma and get revenge on the perpetrator - I think it's a rare anime that treats the problem with all respect it deserves), Btoom (the anime in the OP's picture, I think it's just being edgy too - I haven't seen it), Sword Art Online (they always get stopped at some point, but the point is a lot later than usual, and it's played for drama), Triage X (I think it's meant to be fanservice, but fanservice doesn't work when the woman is beat up like that. Or maybe they just use it as a shortcut to "these people are damn evil, it's a good thing that the MCs kill them". Probably both.). "Sexual abuse" tag on anidb can provide you some other anime which might be relevant. I'm pretty sure most of them don't "promote" the stuff. Hentai, naturally, has a lot more rape in it, and the attitudes vary a lot. That "Garden" or something anime that promoted being the girl's first man, even if you have to rape her and she's too young, was particularly disturbing. Rapeman, mentioned in this thread, is an easy target - masked vigilante whose modus operandi is rape (I'm not sure if it's rape of "modern" women simply for the crime of being "modern", or it just happened that the first target was like that, as I never finished watching it). Seidou_Takizawa said: Animu is the source of all evil in the world, if you watch it you will most likely become Satan! Now if you excuse me i will go watch some good shows that give lots of good lessons, like Barney the pink dinosaur ^^ How much anime, exactly, do I have to watch to become Satan? I like this job offer, and would like to make proper plans. Or does the title goes to whomever watches the most anime? (that would make Satan a comic-relief character who watches a lot of anime to maintain his position) OpiumSama said: Yes anime does teach some fucked up things... But it's whether you listen to them or not. There are plenty of anime out there that don't feature any of those things. There are alot of animes out there that are NOT HEALTHY. That's why I think anime fans should spend more time looking for content that doesn't contain these things, or hints towards these things. I think alot of anime fans goes through a moe sort of phase, but it's whether you wake up to how fucked up some of these themes are or continue down the path of watching... Uhhh... The things stated in OPs pic. I don't think simply avoiding these things is an adult thing to do. Any good story has conflict, and this usually means that not everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows. Also, you can't avoid bad things happening in real life, and I think you should be morally prepared for them, by watching anime where bad things happen occasionally. I also find your attack on moe offensive and fucked up. But that's a question for another topic, and I answered it there plenty just recently. TheDeadApostle said: People are deluded enough to think that incest, escapism and sexualization of little girls are okay and that's why I hate most anime. Apart from being a disgusting pile of poor execution and cliched characters, it actually has the balls to give stupid and unhealthy lessons like those. Sexualization of little girls is the only part where you have any kind of solid moral ground. (But I like it anyway) Your opposition to incest and escapism is pure moralfaggotry (authoritarianism). Wensbane said: I thought this thread was going to be about mid-day snacking, unhealthy soda consumption or something wholesome like that. Instead, it's some hidden political agenda. We're pretty sure the OP is some kind of troll. Better start your own thread about the mundane, but more real, bad things one can learn from anime. |
SigOpram said: ProphecyOfDoom said: I can't take seriously someone believing that incest is an atrocity, i cannot take seriously someone who hasn't take it''s freedom of mind, unable to form an opinion out of his Ego, and is directly influenced by a book that directly enslave people's mind, and take all their freedom of thought. Consensual incest is not a bad thing, as much as homosexuality and love between chilhood friends. Plus you added edginess, which means you condemn individuation, and eccentricity. It's time to grow up and evolve, the prehistoric era has finished since a long long time ago. I find this scary with your name.... Then being brave must not be your thing.. :P |
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