Is suicide selfish?

Rasco said:
I was hoping you would see that I'm pointing out the rare moments that can be selfless/unselfish. Rather than "attaining" it for all matters.

Immahnoob said:
I'm saying it's impossible for any matter. It's the same thing as being "objective" or "true", we're actually just less "subjective".

ThePinhead3333 said:
Just kill yourself and get it over with.

ThePinhead3333 said:
Just kill yourself and get it over with.

bolby said:
Maybe the selfish people are the ones stopping others from killing themselves.

Velkran said:

Agreed. It depends on the situation but most cases are overcomplicated because people simply don't want to let others go. Thinking about how they must feel should be first priority instead of what they are "leaving behind", unless something really important is involved (children etc.).

TheBrainintheJar said:


The same logic that fuels suicide prevention is the same logic that fuels sex-entitled people. "Don't do this thing with your body that's not aimed at me! I own your body! IT'S MINE!"

Spooks said:


No....Its because they don't want someone suffering from one thing or another to die when they might still go on to live a happy life with help. Thats why prevention circles and support groups aren't gang rapes.

LordoftheHorizon said:
Suicide is a complicated matter. Considerations have to be made for both sides of the spectrum, both positive and negative. Suicide is a person's decision for their own life, whether it is selfish or not is determined by the people affected by it. Running away from problems or people who desperately rely on your presence is indeed selfish. I would say it is only selfish when more people are harmed by your suicide than if your were to face the issue instigating your suicide.

Andomarn said:
Implying the people that actually commit suicide do it out of self interest.
Is the act selfish? Maybe so.
Are the people that commit suicide selfish? No.

TheBrainintheJar said:


Why must a person 'face their issues'? What's the difference between dumping your lover and ending your life, in terms of ethics?

TheBrainintheJar said:


The same logic that fuels suicide prevention is the same logic that fuels sex-entitled people. "Don't do this thing with your body that's not aimed at me! I own your body! IT'S MINE!"

ThrashMatto said:
Wrong. Whether you want to believe it or not, suicide, like sexual entitlement, is a selfish act and hurts everyone involved. Suicide is often an overreaction, and the prevention of it stops suffering for everyone. Suicide and sexual entitlement are both selfish in the way that you think that you are the only one that matters and you don't care who else gets hurt along the way.

Andomarn said:

Lmao yes.
Because obviously people that kill themselves want to kill themselves, rite?
You probably also think that obese people want to be obese because they love food.

bikers123 said:
While I do agree that it's selfish when there are people trying to help you and be there for you when needed, but there are a number of situations when even if people are there, they don't get what is happening even if you explain it to them and most times don't even care. I can understand the latter trying to end their lives when in all honesty nobody gives a shit but just pretends to do so to garner brownie points from you and your peers. In these situations people mostly just don't want to live because they don't feel loved and/or see no reason to exist. I get that.

Then there are situations where people are suffering from mental and physical incapacitates that make their life miserable. I can't even imagine to understand how hard it must be for people who suffer under these circumstances. In many of these situations there are people who care for them and want them to live because they love them. Most of the times, that pain is irreparable, so are the people who want these loved ones to live despite knowing their pain selfish? It's complicated.

LordoftheHorizon said:

There is actually quite a difference, in terms of ethics you are dealing damage to society, not contributing to society instead ending your life prematurely due to being influenced by one's current emotional state. Dumping your gf, doesn't matter. Ending your life, which btw you might not get another chance at, is the incorrect way of accomplishing a suicider's objective which is to escape their current reality/identity.

SnugglyWhuggly said:

Amazing way of missing the point, can't say I'm surprised though.

No one chooses not to be born either, I'm getting tired of reading your flawed logic in nearly every thread I see you post in.


Not exactly true, why do you think there are so many "failed" suicides? Because people chicken out, they don't cut deep enough, or they don't stay in an air tight room filled with carbon monoxide for long enough.
No one wants to die, there'll be reasons in their lives that might make them feel like dying is the best option at times, but if those reasons could be resolved, do you think they'd still want to off themselves?

Of course, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of that. Arguing with you is a bit like arguing with a parrot that thinks it just needs to simply keep repeating itself until the other person gets bored and leaves, and therefore the argument is "won".

I'm pretty sure no one aside from edgy, whiny teenagers reads sanctioned suicide or whatever fucking Reddit sub-boards there are for attention seeking emos obsessed with the idea of suicide.

SnugglyWhuggly said:

No one is saying people can't choose to die, there are people (including myself) saying it's a stupid choice in nearly all cases. There's a difference between having an opinion on something, and chaining someone up and preventing them from dying by force feeding them, since that seems to be the logic you're going on in regards to "forcing people to live".

Suicide more commonly fails because the person doesn't really want to die. I think I trust the anecdotes of myself and people that have actually attempted suicide, over a whiny-arse that overly romanticises suicide, but never actually attempts it because he has no intention of actually ending his life.

You're in no position to decide that either, you have no experience, and you always go off your own warped logic and view of the world to decide your opinions for you.

Because there's no reason for people to kill themselves for no reason. If you really think the only reason why people don't enjoy other people offing themselves is because "it'd make them feel bad", then I honestly pity the low opinion you have of humanity,

Ah, of course you'd be bringing in the ol' terms such as "ad hominem" and "strawman" that you love so dearly. How else can you be so intellectually superior and rational if you can't use argumentative terms that you don't know the definition of?

I'm not writing off every supposedly suicidal person as a "whiny edgy teenager", mostly I'm just referring to you and your angsty, narrow minded bullshit that you keep repeating on these forums over and over and over ad nauseum for the past 6-8 months or so.
People that seriously want their lives to end, do it. They don't whine and bitch about how "woe is me" on online forums for months on end, their life is so unbearable that they just go with the first method they can find.
There's a difference between suicidal thoughts, and actually being suicidal.

TheBrainintheJar said:
I do think the only reason people are against suicide is because suicide causes grief and terrible agony for those left behind

SnugglyWhuggly said:
If they're desperate enough, they do. How exactly do you "hide" a suicide? Even if you throw yourself off a cliff, there's a chance your body isn't going to just get washed away out to sea and eaten by wildlife. Someone is going to have to clean up after you, in almost all cases.

FontSize72LOL said:


By that logic, people that die of old age are selfish because people will most definitely have to deal with the body. People are going to clean up after you regardless of how you exit the world.

I can play Devils advocate here and say that, atleast with suicide, you can pick a method that will minimize your inconvience on the lives of others.

I'm not particularly for or against suicide.

SnugglyWhuggly said:

I don't think angsty teens and despondent young adults in their 20s generally have hopeless lives. If someone wants to end their life, that's their choice, I've never been against people wanting to kill themselves if they really want to, contrary to what you seem to think. As I've said a million times before, I just think these people are selfish morons.

Yeah, because people writing "goodbye" threads must obviously mean they're going to kill themselves, rather than just seeking attention or simply leaving the site.

Warped logic is what you possess, none of your "logic" makes logical sense, ironically enough.

Then you're an even bigger idiot than I originally suspected.
"Compassion is letting people go" - You're right, you should totally allow that moronic teen to kill themselves over their precious iPhone breaking on them. Darwinism and all that.

You're not even providing a decent argument in the first place, I can't be bothered to put too much effort into an argument against a brick wall.

Do you even know what narrow-minded means?
No, the situation really isn't that bad. I don't know you personally, but it seems to me you have access to the internet, and most likely a computer. You have a job, family, social life, enjoy entertainment and I assume you're able to feed and shelter yourself with little difficulty. If your situation is "bad" in that "I want to kill myself because I can't get laid", then I'm afraid that not many people are going to take you very seriously.

I could write an essay of why your pessimistic worldview is bullshit, but you're not worth the effort, and I've already explained several times before why it's flawed. I've said it before, I don't enjoy constantly repeating myself.

It's easy once you're at the brink, but you wouldn't know that, you've never been there, despite being such a suicide fetishist. Shame on you.

If they're desperate enough, they do. How exactly do you "hide" a suicide? Even if you throw yourself off a cliff, there's a chance your body isn't going to just get washed away out to sea and eaten by wildlife. Someone is going to have to clean up after you, in almost all cases.

ThrashMatto said:
Because it's an inherently selfish action

edit: also, please learn what Ad Hominem means if you're going to use it. I often find that people that resort to "your argument is invalid because x logical fallacy" don't actually understand the logical fallacy and use it to make themselves sound smarter while also ignoring the argument that is give. Try debunking something before throwing around logical fallacy claims.

TheBrainintheJar said:
Calling me 'narrow-minded' or such things is ad hominem since it's about me, not the argument

TheBrainintheJar said:
"I can but I won't!" not an argument

ThrashMatto said:
No, that's not an ad hominem

An ad hominem would be:
"You are narrow minded therefor your argument is bad" = what was not used
not
"You are narrow minded because of your argument" = what was used
That's just name calling

Learn the difference if you're going to use debate terminology to make yourself appear smarter and deflect the argument at hand.

She never said that, stop making strawmans when you're so concerned about calling other people out on their logical fallacies.

Side note: Suicide prevention does not equal rape, you sick fuck. Get over this "beautiful people" shit already.

SnugglyWhuggly said:
@TheBrainintheJar, you're basically the living broken record at this point. You've had things explained to you over and over by countless people, but still you stick to your biased viewpoints and relying solely on anecdotal evidence, and anything you "haven't seen for yourself simply can't be true!".
Arguing with you is a bit like arguing with someone that the sky is blue: "NO IT'S NOT!!! IT'S PURPLE 'CAUSE I SEE IT AS PURPLE AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG!!!"

TheBrainintheJar said:
Suicide prevention by force IS equal to rape since it's forcing your ideas upon a body that doesn't belong to you.

Spooks said:
I'll just say no he does not speak for us.

ThrashMatto said:


As somebody who has attempted suicide, I agree he doesn't.

Spooks said:
Guys arguing with him is pointless. Ive tried, other have tried.

You tell him an alternative view to his frankly fringe based ideology he'll point you to the two websites which directly support and gather people who think similar. Fuck I could do that with anything and declare everyone thinks the same. Give me 5 minutes and ill show you a website where all the women on it say men should be castrated and then tell you all women in the world think the same. Present alternative websites that aren't dedicated to being echo chambers to one ideology on it and it will be ignored.

If a person gives their view who has had history of mental illness and/or suicide attempts he will point them again back to the two forums dedicated to supporting his stance and then continue to ignore them. Tell him hes wrong without being a depressive or having suicide attempts under your belt and you'll be dismissed with "You've never talked to a suicidal person have you" or "You don't know" hence you can't win either way.

There are plenty I wish to say on it but can't, or shouldn't. I will say I consider one of the worst types of people to be ones who say practice what I say not what I do. going around telling potentially vulnerable people that killing themselves is the best, the greatest opinion that they should do it, that carry in on life and fighting is meaningless whilst constantly living their life that goes against the same ideology. Its like those cult leaders who tell their followers to drink the poison we're in this together we're the same! and then get arrested because they don't drink themselves because they don't buy their own bull and that type of two faced attitude on something like this disgusts me and im sure others to the core.

but this topic is way too close to home for me to get involved with. I couldn't guarantee continual objectivity. So I just avoid it now.

I'll just say no he does not speak for us.

ThrashMatto said:

1. Nobody said anything about "by force", you moron
2. I really couldn't give two fucks if you killed yourself


As somebody who has attempted suicide, I agree he doesn't.

Cucky said:
Nobody asked to be born into this world. You don't owe your life to anyone unless you have kids. There are selfish means of killing yourself such as jumping in front of a train or leaving a mess as a surprise for someone to stumble upon. More than anything though it's selfish to expect someone to hang around when they're going through a chronic illness be it physical or mental. A lot of people who judge someone for offing themselves probably wouldn't lift a finger to help them come out of their state of mind or situation unless they were close. Not everyone has a stable support system and sometimes even that isn't enough.

I don't mean to encourage suicide. I just think it's really shitty when people judge those who thought ending their lives was a better alternative to living.

ThrashMatto said:
@TheBrainintheJar
Look, you seem be confusing what I'm saying for being anti-right to die so I'll lay out my beliefs for you:
1. I believe in the right to die, and think it should be enshrined in law
2. I believe suicide should not be illegal, as it currently is in most countries
3. I believe doctor assisted suicide should only be available for those who are terminal or can not live a decent life without medical assistance
4. I believe suicide, unless in the 2 instances above, is inherently stupid and selfish
5. I believe that stupid and selfish actions should be openly discouraged, therefor:
6. I believe that suicide should be openly discouraged
7. I give zero fucks about anybody but the people I care about killing themselves
8. I am anti-suicide, not anti-right to die. Just as I'm anti-abortion, but am pro-choice. Learn the difference.

You can say whatever fringe ideological and borderline sociopathic shit you want but I refuse to let you misrepresent me, accuse me of "gaslighting" (which is bullshit anyway) and equate me to being a rapist because I disagree with suicide. As somebody who has attempted suicide I find somebody who hasn't attempted it telling that I don't understand suicide to be laughable. I believe you are not mentally well, I'll be blunt about that, but that doesn't mean I'll hold my opinions back and silence myself for fear of you calling me a "bully". You can use this "you're either with us or you're against us" mentality all you want, it's not convincing anyone. Grow up and stop playing the victim.

AltoRoark said:
There isn't such a thing as "living against your will". That's pure nonsense. All living beings have an instinct to survive. If someone wants to die, that means he would prefer to have lived differently. He is running away from his OWN life, not life itself.

Nobody really wants to die. What they want is to live a good life. Suicide is a method of giving up on the life they are currently living.

TheBrainintheJar said:


3. Then you do not believe in the right to die. There's no reason to withhold euthanasia from anyone. Just because someone is terminally ill doesn't give them extra rights. I didn't choose to be born, just like the terminally ill. Why can't I get euthanasia?

4. So what?

5. Go ahead and discourage people from doing what they want with their own bodies. You're only coming off as entitled.

I did not accuse you specifically of gaslighting. I said that suicide prevention can easily succumb into gaslighting - based on anecdotes I heard, this is how it goes. People act like the suicidal's vision is completely disconnected from reality. They don't take actions, but merely bully them into believing life is great.

I did not say you're like a rapist. I said people who use force to prevent suicide are.

I don't care about your personal anecdote. All it proves is that not all suicidal people are sure about this, and that assisted suicide should have a small waiting period. I'm for htis.

Call me mentally ill all you want, but if you expect me to return with personal insults and attacking your character then no. I'm not sinking that low.

ThrashMatto said:

No true scotsmaning it up I see. Just because I don't think that the healthcare system should waste valuable resources on ending depressed people's lives through doctor-assisted suicide doesn't mean I am not for the right to die. As I said, suicide should not be illegal, so if somebody wants to kill themselves, fine, go ahead, nobody should stop you. However don't expect a doctor to be the one to put you down, do it yourself. Like smoking, suicide should be discouraged because it is selfish, stupid and bad for your health.

Also yes, you lumped me into the gaslighting rapists the moment you said that people who are for the prevention of suicide, as I am, are gaslighting rapists. Way to have cognitive dissonance. Also yes, I can attack you personally and go after your character because they tie into your selfish belief system, and lol at "I'm not sinking that low" when you say "You're only coming off as entitled." You are mentally ill, that much should be apparent to anyone, to be honest is seems like you have narcissistic personality disorder and persecutory delusions, I'm sure there's more.

Look, you can be for the right to die & have controls over doctor assisted suicide, such as having it be used for terminally ill people, people in a coma, and people who's likes are heavily impaired to the point where they need constant or near constant medical assistance to some semblance of a life. This is what most right-to-die organizations are for, not your twisted sense that anyone who suddenly decides like is shit can go to a doctor and be put down. You are an extremist.