Spotlight Anime: Monogatari Series: Second Season MAL Anime Information Page: Monogatari Series: Second Season MAL Score - 8.84 (53776 users) Ranked - #18 Popularity - #245 Please approach this thread as a critical review of the work in question. Avoid fallacious arguments to the best of your ability while taking these criteria into account. Story: Characters: Art / Animation: Sound / Music design: Other production elements. If you are having trouble writing up a review or coming up with specific pro's and cons, please don't worry. Just do the best you can with it and if you can only write two or three sentences about any of the 4 elements then that's OK. Not everyone here is currently at a level which will allow them to articulate their thoughts and opinions completely. After your initial post is made you can feel free to civilly discuss issues of contention. Everyone has the right to their opinion, please try to be respectful to each others views and formulate constructive arguments in response to the work being spotlighted. Resurrection You Decide results: Monogatari Series: Second Season (Anime) (17/2/19) - Yes: 19 - No: 14 - Haven't Watched: 16 ~ Abstained: 2 - 58% |
TruePeinApr 21, 2019 1:04 PM
Current FAL Ranking + Previous best::  [ |
| A harem in a smart disguise. Smart enough to fool countless people to play their wee-wee, while claiming that it's some great piece of work. I don't think that watching the protag molesting a 10 year old loli ghost girl between some pseudo-philosophical monologues sequences that throw off text screens periodically to make it look even smarter (or maybe so that you don't notice the loli being molested) is that far from rape porn. At least the second one doesn't pretend to be anything more than it is. (lol) This is indeed the best way to describe this whole series is: pretentious. This mild porn series does its thing right though as an erection stimulation, as you can notice all those camera angles flashing under some girl's panties from time to time for a second or two. You only have to catch the moment ;) |
| I agree with Valik93 for the most part. First and foremost, I haven't read any of the LNs, or anything like that so perhaps I'm just missing some larger picture, but sadly I doubt it. I've watched Bakemonogatari, Second Season and Nisemonogatari and actually thinking back now, I probably do regret watching it. It's not like I just hate Isin's work, in fact, I loved Katanagatari. But the Monogatari series is disappointing from my perspective. It's a series that tries to be more than it is - a harem - and it's certainly pretentious, which on it's own I have no issues with, but it fails at coming across as anything other than a harem with some supernatural elements and excessive fanservice. The actual telling and progression of the narrative is actually pretty well done, the arcs generally flow pretty consistently but that's about as far as my praise goes. The arcs themselves are different but it's still highly repetitive and they just act as a tool to progress their characters. For a series that is considered very character driven, I'm dumbfounded. Whilst they all have their own different and unique back stories, the characters themselves are very generic and uninteresting. Atypical harem characters that all swoon over their beloved MC. The series tends to focus on the conversations that these characters engage in, which are often attempts to bring a comedic aspect or a philosophical aspect to the series. Both of which are done poorly. The comedy is childish and repetitive, just like it is with a great deal of anime and I just can't appreciate it. Furthermore, a lot of the time the jokes are based on wordplay, which might be funny for fluent Japanese people (I understand this is marketed and produced towards Japanese people) but it's not something I find interesting or funny, adding to the long list of why I didn't enjoy the series. Then there's the pseudo-philosophical monologues (as Valik put it). I have nothing against philosophical anime, in fact, quite a few of my favorites are heavily influenced by it. The difference is it's actually done well in those series. The art isn't spectacular or horrible. The characters look fine, the backgrounds look fine and it's animated fine. There really isn't much to say about it's art. The characters are so weak for something to be considered character driven, and the story even more so. Perhaps I'm trying to look too far into the series, perhaps it's just surface level entertainment. A harem with atypical comedy and characters. Or maybe the bigger picture lies in the LNs and when the entire series has been adapted but I don't think I can bring myself to watch anymore. |
RqtMar 3, 2015 8:25 PM
| I actually had some hope because I liked Nisemono, but nah. Here's my (translated) review: http://naomeapeteceestudar.blogspot.pt/2015/03/monogatari-series-second-season.html After [the first three seasons] it was time to watch the last instance of the monogataris, a set of six arcs with distinct names that turn around the same issue: a hipersexuated girl and her harem lead. (...) I did not dislike Nisemonogatari, which is the one immediatly before chronologically. However, this "Second Season" appears as little inspired and quite repetitive. For starters, there is no variation in what concerns story and character development. These characters, all these girls, suffer an attempt of exploration through the arcs, in which each is dedicated to one of the girls, but this falls in a redundant way in front ot the lack of contect of their own conception. This is, when there is not a strong personality behind the character, is it possible to have a truly constant development of that kind of character? Here, it did not happen. This could have been surpassed if, as in Nisemonogatari, there was an exagerattion in the erotic charge (not only ecchi), resourcing to figurative and artistic elements. But that kind of element was taken back to the cliche of "lifting the child's skirt and put the hand on her chest" or even "we'll have to sleep on the same bed". This makes everything quite boring and denotes a flagrant lack of inspiration. To compensate we have, in some way, the stylistic option in general. One more time we keep the solitary and surrealist backgrounds, with a perspective variation. Even though this is quite pretentious (I mean, the anime makes itself difficult to a story without any kind of value), it's a visual experience honestly curious. In fact, many times, I felt the urge to turn off the sound and only watch these weird and colourful backgrounds. Maybe the best would have been that all the girls had been eliminated and that the anime was only a succession of scenical images. Concerning music, we keep the soundtrack of early seasons, with constant variations in OPs and EDs that, being appropriate (and having very interesting animation graphics) are - in themselves - very common songs inside the japanese pop-rock. But there was one that I liked enough to download. I consider that this "Second Season" is not worth to be watched for those who did not appreciate deeply the past seasons. By itself, it has little value. In conjugation with the rest, it does not complete much. But to those who like and love the style, it's another gratifying experience I swear that this sounds much better in portuguese than in english. As you can see, it will be a no. |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| First off, I would like to point out that as of writing, Valik93 has not seen Monogatari Series: Second Season, and despite pretentiously acting as if this is not the case, he is basing his argument solely on Bakemonogatari. As such, this is what Valik can do with his opinion. ANYWAY. I'd like to speak for the Monogatari series overall, before I talk about SSS specifically. I was never on the hype train for any previous title in the Monogatari canon. I enjoyed the series, certainly - Nise being one of my foremost guilty pleasures - but all it really accomplished was visually inventive and having engaging dialogue. And you know what, that's fine. It takes a special kind of pretentious to think an anime needs clever character writing, unique or well-constructed plots, or deep philosophy to be good. Nine times out of ten, the execution is more important than anything else. You can use the same building blocks as something else and still construct something different. And the Monogatari series used them well. True, I was never invested in the series or its characters. There was plenty of room for improvement. But for what it was, it was consistently entertaining. Now, for Second Season itself. Despite its title being infuriating (Monogatari Second Season is actually the fourth Monogatari anime), the clue as to Monogatari SSS's greatest strength is right there in the title - it's a sequel. 2013 was goddamned full of sequels, and though I was getting sick of them, Monogatari SSS was the exception, as it stood head and shoulders above its predecessors. The collective first season was built around introducing new characters, but while it does add a couple of minor background characters, the story arcs revolve around the same characters that were already introduced in First Season. Instead of just rehashing the same stories, they expanded on their formerly flat characters, whilst subtly planting the seeds of an overarching story. I think one of the things that really allowed Second Season to expand on its characters so well was that, in multiple arcs, it changed the protagonist of the story to one of the supporting characters. The character interaction was always one of Monogatari's best elements, so shedding Araragi to make room for the other characters to bounce off of was a great idea (in particular, separating Senjougohara from Araragi so she can go behind his back for Kaiki Deishuu's help stands out as a great example). I strongly disagree with what ladyxzeus said about the character development. I don't believe a character has to start off with a unique base to be developed into something interesting. The best example of this is definitely Sengoku Nadeko - ironically, Second Season weaponizes her one-dimensional personality and her obligatory crush on Araragi. |
Lindle said: I strongly disagree with what ladyxzeus said about the character development. I don't believe a character has to start off with a unique base to be developed into something interesting. The best example of this is definitely Sengoku Nadeko - ironically, Second Season weaponizes her one-dimensional personality and her obligatory crush on Araragi. :) I put a question mark there because I actually find the issue very debatable. In fact, I've seen a lot of characters through my life into various media. I've seen horrible characters and good characters. However, I've only seen development if the character has more into it than a general trait and a design (aka "cardboard cut"). Now, the one-dimensionality can be used in the context of the story to move it forward and it's ok, sometimes it's quite good. We don't really need a good character for a good story (or a good story for a good character) In the specific case of Monogatari (all seasons, not just this one) there is not really much concerning characters. That would be ok if there was something more for us to pick up. The style works, indeed, it's very interesting, but should we vote yes for a matter of style? I've always felt I'd only vote yes for works that are "complete" in all aspects. But yes, let's admit, the style, the art, in Monogatari that works great. It's just missing everything else, because concerning content there is really not much going on. I refered the case of Nisemonogatari. On that case, there was something going on. It was not the story or the characters, it was the erotic content. I don't even consider it fanservice or ecchi, because it was done wonderfully and it was alluring and apalling at the same time: it was fascinating. But in this later Monogatari we don't have that (maybe fans criticized the early "fanservice" and they decided not to invest on it anymore? Dunno, but it's a pity) I'm not saying this is a bad, horrible, evil series (valik). It's a good series in some aspects. I guess it's just lacking a stronger context for it to fully work, or maybe a completely different take on characters (or having none? Dunno :3) On any case, if we go over the "pretentiousness" of the narrative (attention quote marks, a lot of quote marks) and look at it with an open mind, it's quite an interesting experience. But I only noticed that after, well, looking at it with no preconceptions. I hated bakemono. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| I finished writing and just remembered something. If there is a stale character with no defining traits that just looks at life happening, can that be a story? A story with, essentially, no character. I think I've read nice stories like this. Food for thought |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: The thing is, there really is more going on in that sense as well. The two arcs in which Mayoi is a major character are strongly related, as the first sets the stage for her choosing to move on in the second. Nadeko turning into a god was built up exceptionally, paved the way for a second arc, and also introduced Ougi as a threat (a storyline which is still ongoing, and showed up again in Tsukimonogatari). New revelations are had as to what the past relationship between Senjougohara and Kaiki Deishuu might actually have been.The style works, indeed, it's very interesting, but should we vote yes for a matter of style? I've always felt I'd only vote yes for works that are "complete" in all aspects. But yes, let's admit, the style, the art, in Monogatari that works great. It's just missing everything else, because concerning content there is really not much going on. The stories aren't just standalone any more. It's stopped being inconsequential fluff, and there's finally something of more substance in the background. The various stories are linking together and forming something bigger than the sum of its parts. This is why I think Second Season has pushed Monogatari into newer, better territory, and this is why I'm voting yes. |
Lindle said: The stories aren't just standalone any more. It's stopped being inconsequential fluff, and there's finally something of more substance in the background. The various stories are linking together and forming something bigger than the sum of its parts. Personally, I think you're right in the sense that it's not inconsequential fluff. These arcs aren't just randomly thrown together off Isin's whim and that everything is only a small piece in an overall puzzle, however at the same time I think they're some pretty frail lines. These frail lines are tiptoed on by these weak characters that seem to progress poorly. Despite these characters having a role in these arcs, to me, not much is accomplished at the end of it. Not only that but the narrative lends itself to a monotonous formula. While these stories develop a sense of substance as you say, ultimately the characters fall short and it becomes a tiring process. To me, not much has happened over the three series I've watched. Don't get me wrong I appreciate some of the things this series does, but in the grand scheme I see a lot of things it does wrong too, ultimately leading me to label it an average 5/10 series. |
Rqt said: I can see where you're coming from, in that some of these elements don't stand up as well when viewed on their own. There's nothing particularly unique about the story, and the characters, while further fleshed out, can still be pigeonholed into archetypes. As I see it, though, there's nothing inherently wrong with either of those things (rather, they are simply the absence of a specific "right" thing), and other aspects of SSS hold each part of the writing up to a higher standard. The good writing and dialogue makes the character interactions more engaging, which makes us more invested in the characters, which increases the dramatic weight of their respective arcs, which makes the overarching story that builds up more interesting.Lindle said: The stories aren't just standalone any more. It's stopped being inconsequential fluff, and there's finally something of more substance in the background. The various stories are linking together and forming something bigger than the sum of its parts. Personally, I think you're right in the sense that it's not inconsequential fluff. These arcs aren't just randomly thrown together off Isin's whim and that everything is only a small piece in an overall puzzle, however at the same time I think they're some pretty frail lines. These frail lines are tiptoed on by these weak characters that seem to progress poorly. Despite these characters having a role in these arcs, to me, not much is accomplished at the end of it. Not only that but the narrative lends itself to a monotonous formula. While these stories develop a sense of substance as you say, ultimately the characters fall short and it becomes a tiring process. To me, not much has happened over the three series I've watched. Don't get me wrong I appreciate some of the things this series does, but in the grand scheme I see a lot of things it does wrong too, ultimately leading me to label it an average 5/10 series. None of the smaller elements being lackluster is a dealbreaker for me, and I hold that this is an anime that is greater than the sum of its parts. |
Lindle said: I can see where you're coming from, in that some of these elements don't stand up as well when viewed on their own. There's nothing particularly unique about the story, and the characters, while further fleshed out, can still be pigeonholed into archetypes. As I see it, though, there's nothing inherently wrong with either of those things (rather, they are simply the absence of a specific "right" thing), and other aspects of SSS hold each part of the writing up to a higher standard. The good writing and dialogue makes the character interactions more engaging, which makes us more invested in the characters, which increases the dramatic weight of their respective arcs, which makes the overarching story that builds up more interesting. None of the smaller elements being lackluster is a dealbreaker for me, and I hold that this is an anime that is greater than the sum of its parts. The story and characters aren't unique you're right, but don't get me wrong I'm not saying uniqueness is a prerequisite for quality. What I'm trying to say is despite all these factors being cogs in a greater machine, despite whether you look at them individually or as a whole, the series falls short and the machine won't work if half the pieces are broken. At this point I guess it's more about subjectivity and relativity if these pieces work for each viewer or not. What we've talked about is only a fraction of what makes this series up, but for the most part there are a lot of things that I just can't appreciate, yet I understand that others can appreciate the things I can't. Lame, I know, but I don't really have any thing else to say at this point. |
| Lindle, I did watch several episodes of Monogatari SS. It's funny how you tell me to shave my opinion up my ass, but you're not even counting the possibility of me actually not updating my MAL list with that anime. ;) |
| Alright, Hey guys I just joined the club so nice to meet everyone :) "Our goal is to come up a list of highly recommended quality shows that are exemplary either within genre or universally. " I believe it is a question about if we should include the "ecchi & harem" genre within our club related list. As a person coming from ecchi-anime background, I believe there is yet to be a production within the genre that is better than Monogatari series. Regarding characters, Monogatari does not fully explore anybody's character development. However, it successfully fleshes out character's way of think, background and the reasons they are acting the way they are. At the very least we can tell that the characters feel very human, unlike the vast majority of other animes that portrays the characters like sex objects with zero intellectual capability. With a rather cliche premise, it is able to present a complete story that is not "making them up as they go". The dialogues are interesting (well, everybody has his/her own definition of "interesting") and well thought-out. The jokes are wordplays are not lame if you have even a little bit of Kanji or Japanese background. I understand that western audience may appreciate them less, but it doesn't mean the story is boring and uninteresting as what it is. The animation is unique, and I believe there isn't a better way of presenting the story. Not saying how amazing and fluid they graphic is, but it certainly focus on the details and manages to not let people fall asleep when listening to the characters ranting about stuff. And the fan service. arguably the must detailed and well-made fan service ever. Not saying it is a good thing to have fan service, but at least when they do, they do it right. Music is generic at best. It is refreshing to hear those simple piano notes playing in simple melodies. other than that, nothing worth mentioning. At the end of the day, this series certainly is a no-match with any of our club recommended anime. But it is absolutely amazing when you compare this to other ecchi, harem shows. Personally, although I love this series, I really don't think we should make this a "Yes" simply because it just isn't good enough. |
| Some arcs are really well writen with great character development and story progression (these arcs have little to no ecchi at all) and are great. But there are some arcs that they focus more on the ecchi and it really ruins the presentation of the show, you cant really take it serious enough to be memorable experience because of these arcs. Sometimes i think there are some really really really good ideas in the show that are ruined because of the harem and ecchi stuff. Its kinda sad. This is the best harem and as good as a harem can be. But i dont really think that is saying much. |
| Remember guys, I AM NOT A PARAGON OF TASTE. I HAVE SHIT TASTE LIKE THE REST OF YOU. |
Valik93 said: Lindle, I did watch several episodes of Monogatari SS. It's funny how you tell me to shave my opinion up my ass, but you're not even counting the possibility of me actually not updating my MAL list with that anime. ;) Considering that, not only was it not on your list, but that you had dropped this little comment into the club comments shortly beforehand: Valik93 said: The actual order of how you should watch them is: Bakemonogatari > Nisemonogatari > realize that this whole stuff sucks and you just wasted quite a bit of time for no purpose whatsoever, drop it and never remember about it. ...What else was I supposed to assume? You had all but flat-out stated you'd dropped it. |
| Yeah, I never said I watched all of it. But my experience was enough to get a general impression off it. That's why I didn't get into details at all when I left my comment on it. So, I think my anus is ok without my opinion getting in there. You might not like me, but keep smart remarks to yourself. If you think Monogatari SS is worthy of being called a masterpiece, fine, that's your problem. I am thinking about giving it a run just to have a real argument and point down every negative aspect of the show just to keep my ass clear. You shouldn't try to be a smartASS, man. I remember you already posted something similar about my opinion going to trash once and it ended up with "I didn't sign up on a real debate" on your side. |
| I'd definitely give a "yes" for Bakemonogatari. I've read and understood the complaints, and I still feel that way. However, I'd rather not write an essay on the subject explaining why, because it's pretty irrelevant to this particular discussion... Instead, I simply have to question the wisdom of including a sequel but not the original series, when the sequel is neither standalone nor particularly distinguished from the original series. It may improve on the narrative, it may have refined the art style, but at the end of the day it's not something you'd recommend to watch without first watching the original. |
| “Money can't buy dere” |
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