| Hey Play2X, I read through this thread and you seem to defend that in One Piece every fight is the same thing, so I wonder, what is the big similarity among these? Luffy vs Lucci Usopp vs Perona Straw Hats vs Oars and Moria Luffy vs Enel Nami vs Doublefinger Sanji vs Gin Zoro vs Kaku Chopper vs Kumadori Luffy vs Boa sisters Straw Hats vs Pacifista Chopper vs Gedatsu Ace vs Teach (what we saw) Zoro and Tashigi vs Monet Not interested in discussing the comparison with Naruto because I have not followed the show and don't care whether one is better than the other or not |
rodacSep 19, 2014 9:19 PM
jal90 said: Sanji vs Gin Just a few days ago I thought Sanji vs Gin is underrated. I never saw people mention it as one of their favourite fights in One Piece. |
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| Mod Note: Derails have been cleaned. Please stay on topic and avoid baiting or insulting other users. |
Please don't feed the trolls! In my next life I want to collide at the corner with the cute transfer student carrying a piece of toast in her mouth...rodac |
Play2X said: I told you before, you should actually listen to what I say. I NEEEVER said that every fight in naruto is the same. hell, that would be fuckin boring. I said that the choreography in every fight is good. And that is still as true as in the beginning of this discussion. Every fight has its purpose, and if that purpose gets accomplished, its fine. Saying the choreography in the fight I just posted of Sasuke vs Itachi is just as good as Kakashi vs Obito is also hogwash, and using your own words: "you'd have to be braindead to think that." That'll just make you look silly. You've lost that point.....unless you still want to argue about it. Ever seen the german dub? No? Then shut up. By the way, dubs suck in 99% of all cases. The only time I liked the dub more than the sub was Cowboy Bebop, but thats another story. "And now question time: could it possibly be that the fight between Luffy and Smoker had the same reasoning? Showing that after what he had been through, Luffy still couldn't touch him? Perish the thought!" I'm not exactly sure if I even get what you are trying to say, so this is just a speculation... But why would you draw a rematch between two characters, if not to show their development? This is a simple matter of script writing. Lol. "dubs suck in 99% of all cases" Thank God you've watched them all to give that enlightened response. What on earth was I thinking? And you just answered my question but at the same time showed the point went over your head. This is going to be long, drawn out and fruitless, isn't it? I somehow get the feeling, that you don't know much of the basics in Naruto, right? Chidori is a high speed attack, and also using raiton in that form is rather complex. Well, don't want to keep long on that one, if you appreciate the world of Naruto, you would know why this technique in its own world is complex. Doing jet moves is not 'gripping', instead it tends to be rather unrealistical and boring. Just to get my point across: Smoke is thinner than air and can't be used for accelaration, thus this whole fight is a load of bull. Chidori is complex alright. The 10 hand signs, acrobatics and hoops you have to jump through are definitely visually impressive. Also forgot that chidori tends to be "realistic" and "exciting". So basically, Luffy is braindead enough to not feel anything after being defeated even though he did all the training? I just finished the Enies Lobby Arc. in that one he were like 'I have to become stronger, to protect my nakama! If I'm not stronger, I'll eventually loose them all!' And in the next arc he looses. And you seriously want to tell me that it would be out of character, that he'd be frustrated, or afraid? Oh yes, I forgot the 10 minutes Luffy had to perform a soliloquy at his disappointment of being unable to defeat Smoker. Also, he's saying "that damn jutte" definitely doesn't show frustration. You have to be weeping your eyes out and wailing like a siren to do that. Mod Edit: Removed baiting. |
VudisSep 20, 2014 6:14 AM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Dahaka_ said: I don't have time to to check every battle in both of them and make a fair comparison. He picked his example, I picked mine to prove that OP can have much better choreography than Naruto. Depends on the fight. That's pointless, it doesn't prove anything, which is my point. You didn't get me. When you crate a work that focuses only on one genre, then you must make sure it's really good in it. If your detective story is predictable then it fails as a detective story. When Naruto fails at delivering good plot and good fights (and it does, imo) then it fails as a manga. The humour and the world, even if there, are not enough to make this manga interesting. You're left with characters wandaring around caves and woods and few not-so interesting villages. Which is basically nothing. But Naruto is not build around one genre, which you didn't even mention (plot is not a genre). The only difference it has between One Piece, in what it supposedly offer is the adventure. Well so far, you are saying it fails as this, and that with backing it up, so I will just say no I don't agree with you. And when you deliver a great plot and characters, then the worldbuilding is not needed, worldbuliding is never an important aspect imo, even if Naruto has some of it, it's never the focus, and I'm glad it isn't. Point being, even if OP would have worse plot, characters and fights than Naruto, it' would not mean it's a worse show, because unlike naruto it's not only about story, characters and fights. Yes it would. Plot and characters like I said are the most important aspect of fiction in general, it can depend on personal preferences, but that's how it's usually seen by the majority. Lmao. You make it, like is there some huge difference there. Humor and World? are you serious, I can't put accurately in words, how much I'm glad that those two things don't get more focus, than the plot and characters. And death of those two definietely had an impact, in every possible way, that's why they died. And there surely will be more, but only when it's needed for the story, not for cheap feels. Pell didn't die, becasue, well, Oda doesn't like to kill characters. It was bullshit, I agree, but the problem lies not in him not dying, but in the fact that Oda make a scenario where he should have died, but didn't. By agreeing to Pell, you just contradicted your initial statement. By having only 2 major characters die in such a long series, takes the sense of danger, since you know that it's unlikely for the characters die. We both know it's not just one character We both know that's bullshit reasoning. Here let me try. 'God, One Piece sucks so much after the timeskip and in turn sucks as a whole series, cuz, the female characters are just walking balloons.' |
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| Needs higher rank |
IntroverTurtle said: tsudecimo said: Wait what? There has to be death in a series to create impact on the world, characters, and the readers? That's bullshit.Death in flashbacks don't really count, and it's like the bottom of the barrel. There is only two important that died in the span of 600+ chapters, death doesn't automatically improves the story, but there have to be some, in order to create impact on the world and characters, and the readers. You say that, but there was no reason for Bell to survive, so no he doesn't kill characters when they should. It's not an objective fault, but it can destroy the suspension of disbelief. You mean not at this point is there an apparent reason. The future is long and it's not uncommon for characters from past arcs to be relevant later. And bottom of the barrel like Kushina and Minato's? No, I meant, in order to deliver a specific kind of impact on those you listed, death is sometimes a necessaity, bad phrasing on my part I suppose. Oda in an interview, said he didn't want to end that arc on a sad note, that's reason, until he makes some use of him, that is not just a cameo. I meant that when asked about death in a series, and then you firstly mention the death in the flashback, then that's scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I have no problem with death in flashback in itself. |
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short_review said: I'd say the biggest strength of OnePiece is the ability Oda has to introduce characters or concepts or places very very early ... just to use them 400 chapters after. It always gives the feeling Oda knows completely what he is doing. I've not seen that level of anticipation in Naruto or Bleach. There are even characters in One Piece that have been introduced very early and that we still haven't seen ... after 750 chapters ! Plus I think the whole "travel the world to become the kind of pirates one day" looks more appealing to most people than "ninjas fighting in the forest" or "deathgods fighting in the streets" because it means "dream", "travel the world", "adventures" and "complete freedom". Bleach and Naruto don't have that. Sadly I think the whole opposite. + from what I heard OP is very repetitive ( island, vilain, beats up vilain, next island ) and Naruto story always proggresses, which makes it superior in my opinion. It's funny when peeple say to me that ''you only watched 50 episodes, the best parts get at 400th episode or smth''. Well excuse me, but a show has to be interesting and good from the start and shouldn't need 500 episodes to get interesting or better. 50 episodes is a very big amount in my opinion. Naruto was interesting from the very start, or at least from the point after Zabuza arc, cause Chunin exam arc is one of the most hooking and interesting pieces of anime I have seen. The same cannot be said about OP, cause only after 50 episodes I felt like I was watching a good filler but not an interesting story. |
goodshitgoOdshitSep 20, 2014 1:26 AM
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robis798 said: short_review said: I'd say the biggest strength of OnePiece is the ability Oda has to introduce characters or concepts or places very very early ... just to use them 400 chapters after. It always gives the feeling Oda knows completely what he is doing. I've not seen that level of anticipation in Naruto or Bleach. There are even characters in One Piece that have been introduced very early and that we still haven't seen ... after 750 chapters ! Plus I think the whole "travel the world to become the kind of pirates one day" looks more appealing to most people than "ninjas fighting in the forest" or "deathgods fighting in the streets" because it means "dream", "travel the world", "adventures" and "complete freedom". Bleach and Naruto don't have that. Sadly I think the whole opposite. + from what I heard OP is very repetitive ( island, vilain, beats up vilain, next island ) and Naruto story always proggresses, which makes it superior in my opinion. Sadly this is an understatement. You can throw the basic scheme and ignore its many variations, the fact every island has its share of history and idiosyncrasy, etc. Basically everything that makes a context. If you watched 50 episodes you should be able to spot at this point the fundamental differences between the situation at Baratie (resisting an enemy invasion) and Arlong Park (invading a pirate territory) for instance. You should as well be able to notice how differently the residents behave, how different the motivations and psychological profiles of the villains are... ...and no, sorry but you haven't watched enough to make generalizations. In 50 episodes you've gone through, like, five introductory arcs, all tied to the same purpose (finding crewmates to set sail into the Grand Line). You haven't even got into the defining part of the journey, you could very perfectly believe at this point that the series is going to be about the Straw Hats trying to find the Grand Line when this is achieved as soon as episode 61. There are arcs in there that double the number of episodes you've watched at this point alone. There are various instances of arcs that are tightly connected among different islands, subverting your trope of "one island, one villain to beat". There are major arcs that completely subvert your basic scheme thrown there. There are side stories. Want me to go on? I don't buy the bullshit about "the best part starts at..." some fans seem to desperately throw in to convert the haters, but that doesn't make your case more reasonable. You have watched 50 out of 661 episodes at this point. You have watched less than 10% of its current run. You have absolutely no idea about the world of One Piece, its connections and its overall story. And it doesn't matter if you assume this. Heck, I have watched 15 episodes of Naruto, do you see me talking about its overall scheme? No, if anything I will talk about the scheme of the stuff I've watched, not baseless inferences and "people told me". jaxjaxk said: i don't think its rank fits it very well. the story is good but the speed it god awful! seriously, its predicted to last over 1000 episodes. i could make it to one piece quicker than this anime lasts! few people put this as the best or even close to the best. the problem is people who have only seen 3 anime think this is as good as it gets so they call it a 10. i would give it a 10/10 if it only took up less than 300 episodes total. ... Your turn, IntroverTurtle. |
jal90Sep 20, 2014 3:07 AM
tsudecimo said: IntroverTurtle said: Wait what? There has to be death in a series to create impact on the world, characters, and the readers? That's bullshit. You mean not at this point is there an apparent reason. The future is long and it's not uncommon for characters from past arcs to be relevant later. And bottom of the barrel like Kushina and Minato's? No, I meant, in order to deliver a specific kind of impact on those you listed, death is sometimes a necessaity, bad phrasing on my part I suppose. Oda in an interview, said he didn't want to end that arc on a sad note, that's reason, until he makes some use of him, that is not just a cameo. I meant that when asked about death in a series, and then you firstly mention the death in the flashback, then that's scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I have no problem with death in flashback in itself. So what about death that is just reversed a la edo tensei? Wouldn't one think that that is even worse because death has no finality? Play2X said: @RedRoseFring: I won't answer you anymore, until you get arguments out. All you're saying is 'Gya you're a kid, and I hate you for not liking One Piece!' Good. Saves me a lot of trouble dealing with silly arguments. Interesting to see you couldn't refute a single thing I said, but whatever. It's not like I was expecting you to anyway....they never do smh. Edit: on second thought, I will in fact spend a little more time ridiculing you. I guess I'll have to read the 14th chapter of 20th Century Boys another time. Your arguments hardly go beyond: 1. I haven't seen much of it, but someone told me it's bad, therefore it is, or: 2. That character didn't do what that other character would have done, therefore bad. And who can forget: 3. I didn't get it, therefore bad. Or on the funny side: 4. No one died, therefore bad. I could go on, but I'll let ya stew on that for a while ;) Double edit: Complaining about fillers in OP? Lol! Naruto must have driven you mad then, and the story must be thinned out worse than pee in the local pool. But that's 'quality', right? |
RedRoseFringSep 20, 2014 3:14 AM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
jal90 said: robis798 said: Sadly I think the whole opposite. + from what I heard OP is very repetitive ( island, vilain, beats up vilain, next island ) and Naruto story always proggresses, which makes it superior in my opinion. Sadly this is an understatement. You can throw the basic scheme and ignore its many variations, the fact every island has its share of history and idiosyncrasy, etc. Basically everything that makes a context. If you watched 50 episodes you should be able to spot at this point the fundamental differences between the situation at Baratie (resisting an enemy invasion) and Arlong Park (invading a pirate territory) for instance. You should as well be able to notice how differently the residents behave, how different the motivations and psychological profiles of the villains are... ...and no, sorry but you haven't watched enough to make generalizations. In 50 episodes you've gone through, like, five introductory arcs, all tied to the same purpose (finding crewmates to set sail into the Grand Line). You haven't even got into the defining part of the journey, you could very perfectly believe at this point that the series is going to be about the Straw Hats trying to find the Grand Line when this is achieved as soon as episode 61. There are arcs in there that double the number of episodes you've watched at this point alone. There are various instances of arcs that are tightly connected among different islands, subverting your trope of "one island, one villain to beat". There are major arcs that completely subvert your basic scheme thrown there. There are side stories. Want me to go on? I don't buy the bullshit about "the best part starts at..." some fans seem to desperately throw in to convert the haters, but that doesn't make your case more reasonable. You have watched 50 out of 661 episodes at this point. You have watched less than 10% of its current run. You have absolutely no idea about the world of One Piece, its connections and its overall story. And it doesn't matter if you assume this. Heck, I have watched 15 episodes of Naruto, do you see me talking about its overall scheme? No, if anything I will talk about the scheme of the stuff I've watched, not baseless inferences and "people told me". . I believe you didn't read my paragraph below. Basicly what you are telling me is that it gets better as it goes on. Well, Naruto got good from the very start and nothing major changed through out it's run, it was equally good all the time. And as I see you failed to read my paragraph below, that 50 episodes is incredibly big number to me and I invested a lot of time in it only to be disapponted. Show should already show it's good side. And if 50 episodes is not a good amount to make any generalizations, well than it is not that good of a show. |
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robis798 said: I believe you didn't read my paragraph below. Basicly what you are telling me is that it gets better as it goes on. Not quite. I told you that what you say is an understatement because this basic scheme is either subverted at various points of the show or is too generalistic to start with. Defending that a show has more variety and/or complexity beyond or even inside a simplistic label =/= defending its quality. The Arlong arc is still among my top5 favorite arcs and on the other hand the most blatant subversion of the trope you quoted in One Piece is one of the arcs I'm less fond of. This is not a discussion on quality but on the content. I'm not telling you that the series gets better as it goes on, basically because I don't have the same mindset as you in terms of what makes a series better or worse. I could very perfectly enjoy a One Piece that was all about strictly conclusive arcs following the same formula and this discussion wouldn't have taken place because how much you or me liked what we've watched so far is not part of the question. And no, making generalizations is not bad by itself, but generalizing through assumption and inference is not justified in a serious argument. It requires knowing the stuff you are discussing. It is rather perfectly fine -though you didn't answer me about the differences in Baratie and Arlong- to claim this on the stuff you have watched and experienced, but you can't go further and expect me to treat your assumption on the rest of the series -the part I quoted- as a solid argument. Play2X said: You exactly pointed out one of the mainreasons, why I downgraded Naruto, thanks. But in Naruto these arcs weren't in the middle of supposedly important fights. Uhm, aside from the infamous flashback recaps in Enies Lobby (not in the middle of the fight though) and the New Year specials in that same arc, any other example? |
jal90Sep 20, 2014 4:41 AM
tsudecimo said: That's pointless, it doesn't prove anything, which is my point. It proves exactly what I said it proves, which is my point. But Naruto is not build around one genre, which you didn't even mention (plot is not a genre). The only difference it has between One Piece, in what it supposedly offer is the adventure. Well so far, you are saying it fails as this, and that with backing it up, so I will just say no I don't agree with you. And when you deliver a great plot and characters, then the worldbuilding is not needed, worldbuliding is never an important aspect imo, even if Naruto has some of it, it's never the focus, and I'm glad it isn't. Tell that to LoTR fans. The world is what made it legendary. Stop making excuses to cover inferior aspects of Naruto(that is not only in relation to this quote) Adventure part of OP doesn't fail, I never said that. I said I would like there to be more of it. Just becasue I would like to have more fights in HxH it doesn't mean it sucks at them. Yes it would. Plot and characters like I said are the most important aspect of fiction in general, it can depend on personal preferences, but that's how it's usually seen by the majority. No, it wouldn't. Of course, when the diffrence is colossal then it's more likely for show with good plot and characters to win, but when you get excellent plot and characters in one show it doesn't mean it's better than show with only good plot and character, because the later has other qualities to make up for it. Lmao. You make it, like is there some huge difference there. Humor and World? are you serious, I can't put accurately in words, how much I'm glad that those two things don't get more focus, than the plot and characters. Yes, it is a huge diffrence, at least for all the people who prefer OP over Naruto. Seriously, right now you sound like this: - "Naruto is better with this and that" - "One Piece is better with this and that" - "No, this is irrelevant and doesn't count" Just lol. And just to be clear. Lack of comedy in Naruto is not a bad thing in itself, but it's definetely a huge asset of One Piece. By agreeing to Pell, you just contradicted your initial statement. By having only 2 major characters die in such a long series, takes the sense of danger, since you know that it's unlikely for the characters die.. Touchee. Well, two more characters are presumed dead until proven otherwise, especially one with a stabbed heart, but I can't really make that an argument, becasue knowing Oda, he's gonna bring them back. Though there is a chance they're really dead and post-skip Oda finally started to kill characters. And sense of danger is always there, death is not the only bad thing that can happen to character. We both know that's bullshit reasoning. I really don't want to go there, because I'm tired of those discussions. I've seen them a houndred of times already and they always look the same. But tell me this - do you REALLY believe that Kishimoto has done good job with Lee, Neji, TenTen, Kiba, bug-guy, Hinata? Post-skip. |
Dahaka_Sep 20, 2014 5:10 AM
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| Uhm, flashbacks can be a little invasive as well, I give you that. It happened with Lucci's and happened as well with Noland. These, however, are not filler. They are part of the story and while it is debatable whether Oda should introduce them at some point or not, are part of the intended narrative. For instance I think it worked well in the case of Noland (it tied really finely with Luffy's will to ring the bell), but rather badly -and not only due to the position but the actual interest of the flashback- in the case of Lucci. I don't get the part about post-Enies Lobby, though. The war is ended, and Luffy meets Coby again through Garp during their stay at Water 7 before they depart. It is completely normal that this part is filled with recap because it deals with the memories of the characters, and it does not invade another storyline or kills any trace of existant tension. About this... Play2X said: So you should know whether thats true or not: In one of the newer arcs someone wanted to announce who the bad guy is (thats at the end of an episode) as a cliffhanger. The complete next episode is Nami going through all of their enemies, who the announced one might be. And well, thats basically the second episode. In the third episode, that guy announces, who said enemy is, but without sound. So basically they had you wating two weeks for.... nothing. This isn't a flashback perse, and like I said, this is just from what I heard (its 300+ in the future for me) so I can't really say much about it for now. I guess you mean the situation at the Punk Hazard arc. If that's the case, it is not exactly what you mean. The Straw Hat were split at this point; that is, Nami and Usopp if I remember correctly were fighting against an enemy that appeared in front of them, while Luffy and a few others were in a different scenario. It was Luffy's group the one who was exposed to this mystery/cliffhanger. The reason is while they were fighting an enemy in that arc, there was a mastermind Luffy and the crew did not know about. Similarly to the case of Little Garden in the scheme of Alabasta. So, this cliffhanger was kept for two-three weeks, I don't recall, but that doesn't mean that the story didn't advance. Simply, the narration focused on the various subplots that were happening at that time (I can count at least two happening simultaneously; the one involving Nami and Usopp, and the one involving Zoro, Sanji and Brook). So, if anything, the issue of this part is the irregular pacing induced by the narration jumping among various parallel plots, not the fact they kept a cliffhanger from being revealed for a while, which I think is what defines a cliffhanger. |
Dahaka_ said: It proves exactly what I said it proves, which is my point. But cheery picking one example doesn't prove that the choreography doesn't suck in one piece. Tell that to LoTR fans. The world is what made it legendary. Stop making excuses to cover inferior aspects of Naruto(that is not only in relation to this quote) Adventure part of OP doesn't fail, I never said that. I said I would like there to be more of it. Just becasue I would like to have more fights in HxH it doesn't mean it sucks at them. It always depend on the type of series, not every series, goes for worldbuilding, but having good characters and plot is the standard for quality writing, that's basically where I stand in this. And from a personal point of view, worldbuilding is very low on the list of things I judge any fiction by, it can impressive, but it can't save something for me. I was referring to how you said Naruto fails in it's plot and characters, not the adventure of one piece. Yes, it is a huge diffrence, at least for all the people who prefer OP over Naruto. Seriously, right now you sound like this: - "Naruto is better with this and that" - "One Piece is better with this and that" - "No, this is irrelevant and doesn't count" Just lol. And just to be clear. Lack of comedy in Naruto is not a bad thing in itself, but it's definetely a huge asset of One Piece. I've never stated that One Piece is better at anything. I merely said that it has more focus on worldbuilding and adventure, and comedy, I didn't necessarily mean that it does it well, or better than any Shounen series. I didn't say it doesn't count, I'm saying they are not as important as plot and characters, which I'm having a hard time believing that some people will think the world and the humor are more important. In my opinion, it really isn't. The comedy in one piece does more harm than good. For every funny scene, there is tons of unfunny and repetitive ones, that make the characters look one dimensional. There is also the fact that it can kill the tension on fights. I really don't want to go there, because I'm tired of those discussions. I've seen them a houndred of times already and they always look the same. But tell me this - do you REALLY believe that Kishimoto has done good job with Lee, Neji, TenTen, Kiba, bug-guy, Hinata? Post-skip. He neglected Neji and Lee for no reason, that is something I'm well aware of, and one of the very few things that I felt the author did a bad job at, or rather didn't do anything about, despite their great potential and their previous developments and focus. Hinata got more focus, development, screen time, and more relevant after the time skip, so I don't know why you have her there, he did a good job with her, both character wise, and story wise. Lol TenTen. The other characters you mentioned are minor characters, that I couldn't care less about them, since they were never important, and were two dimensional at best. Heck, if anything, giving them more screen time after the timeskip would have been really bad. |
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| Thread cleaned. The amount of insulting and baiting in here is despicable. I don't see how it's necessary to keep bringing up the OP vs Naruto discussions. There's almost more discussion on Naruto than on OP here. Any further derailing or offtopic might result in the locking of this thread. |
I've never stated that One Piece is better at anything. I merely said that it has more focus on worldbuilding and adventure, and comedy, I didn't necessarily mean that it does it well, or better than any Shounen series. I didn't say it doesn't count, I'm saying they are not as important as plot and characters, which I'm having a hard time believing that some people will think the world and the humor are more important. That was a dialog. You say Naruto is good at this, I say OP is good at that, you say it doesn't matter if it is, because things naruto is good at are more important, therefore convinientely avoiding admiting that OP might be better at something. But whatever, we're not going anywhere with this anyway. But cheery picking one example doesn't prove that the choreography doesn't suck in one piece. Convinientely phrased to use "suck" and "one piece" within one sentence. Why are we assuming that One Piece fight choreography suck and it's on me to prove otherwise? |
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| One Piece is an amazing journey. Sure the pacing has been godawful recently but that doesn't tarnish all the past amazing experiences. I've never felt so invested in characters as I have with One Piece. Deserves to at least be in the top 30 in my opinion, but please love hating it because it's in the category of the "Big Three". If there is a show's popularity you should question its Fairy Tail.... robis798 said: short_review said: I'd say the biggest strength of OnePiece is the ability Oda has to introduce characters or concepts or places very very early ... just to use them 400 chapters after. It always gives the feeling Oda knows completely what he is doing. I've not seen that level of anticipation in Naruto or Bleach. There are even characters in One Piece that have been introduced very early and that we still haven't seen ... after 750 chapters ! Plus I think the whole "travel the world to become the kind of pirates one day" looks more appealing to most people than "ninjas fighting in the forest" or "deathgods fighting in the streets" because it means "dream", "travel the world", "adventures" and "complete freedom". Bleach and Naruto don't have that. Sadly I think the whole opposite. + from what I heard OP is very repetitive ( island, vilain, beats up vilain, next island ) and Naruto story always proggresses, which makes it superior in my opinion. It's funny when peeple say to me that ''you only watched 50 episodes, the best parts get at 400th episode or smth''. Well excuse me, but a show has to be interesting and good from the start and shouldn't need 500 episodes to get interesting or better. 50 episodes is a very big amount in my opinion. Naruto was interesting from the very start, or at least from the point after Zabuza arc, cause Chunin exam arc is one of the most hooking and interesting pieces of anime I have seen. The same cannot be said about OP, cause only after 50 episodes I felt like I was watching a good filler but not an interesting story. Do not ever try to judge an entire series after watching less than a tenth of it, I don't care how many episodes it was. |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
| Found it funny how some people said that One Piece isn't progressing and say "it's just going to some random island and beat up the villain" and close they're eyes to the fact that actually Luffy ship is moving forward and I say that's progressing, first their at East Blue and now they're at the New World. and the World Building is not important to the plot? oh yeah of course it's not important only if the world is full of jungle without anything else. and One Piece world building is not just about the design but more to how the world in One Piece work, the world where one man action could've impact a whole world (Blackbeard and Sengoku) and a fucking Newspaper could lead an entire crew to the brink of annihilation(talking about the latest chapter) but maybe the best thing about One Piece is Luffy always being a Luffy and it's great. |
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robis798 said: short_review said: I'd say the biggest strength of OnePiece is the ability Oda has to introduce characters or concepts or places very very early ... just to use them 400 chapters after. It always gives the feeling Oda knows completely what he is doing. I've not seen that level of anticipation in Naruto or Bleach. There are even characters in One Piece that have been introduced very early and that we still haven't seen ... after 750 chapters ! Plus I think the whole "travel the world to become the kind of pirates one day" looks more appealing to most people than "ninjas fighting in the forest" or "deathgods fighting in the streets" because it means "dream", "travel the world", "adventures" and "complete freedom". Bleach and Naruto don't have that. Sadly I think the whole opposite. + from what I heard... No. Just no. You have no idea of what you are talking about. Before you talk about one of the big three, read it or watch it. Mod Edit: Removed reaction image. |
VudisSep 21, 2014 3:11 AM
short_review said: robis798 said: Sadly I think the whole opposite. + from what I heard...  No. Just no. You have no idea of what you are talking about. Before you talk about one of the big three, read it or watch it. I watched 50 episodes of OP and yeah 50 episodes are absolute nothing. It is impossible to get a slightest idea about what the show is. PLEASE. And I do a lot of research on the shows I am about to drop to see if they get any better. And I heard A LOT about One Piece. I think I have perfectly enough knowledge to make my opinion about those two shows' world building. Get off your high horse. |
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| Sure. For an anime with over 650 episodes, the quality of the writing is surprisingly consistent. The animation could be better, but it's definitely serviceable by long-running anime standards. My only real complaint is with the pacing, which is the only thing keeping me from raising my score of 8 to a 9. I still think it deserves its current rank on MAL, though. |
robis798 said: I think I have perfectly enough knowledge to make my opinion No. You have enough knowledge to say "I dislike it" because you disliked the fights, or the first arcs. But you don't have enough knowledge to judge Oda as a storyteller. Read it first and then we'll talk. |
short_reviewSep 20, 2014 11:19 AM
| One piece is currently an 8/10 for me. Comparing some of my scores to mal’s, each show generally has an increment of about 0.5-1.0. I think One piece should have a mal score of 8.5 so it’s slightly overrated. This is mainly due to the poor animation and pacing. If they were decent, then One piece would’ve been top 50 material but as they are now I think it should be in the 50-100 range. Concerning the Op vs Naruto discussion: Early naruto fights are better than early one piece fights in almost every way imaginable imo. The main problems were that those fights had badly timed jokes that ruined the immersion, poor choregraphy and almost nonexistent strategy or extremely basic if present. One piece’s fights eventually picked up and we have some of the best fights in shonen like Luffy vs Luccy. However, Naruto still wins in quantity. When it comes to world building, One piece absolutely stomps Naruto. Of course, if you’ve only seen 50 episodes of each you may think Naruto’s better due to the different villages and clans but that becomes completely overshadowed later by the several islands of One piece with different types of inhabitants, customs, geographical features, politics, a detailed map ,… basically like in the real world but much more exotic. |
| but really people keep saying Naruto fight choreography is better than One Piece is thanks to fucking ROCK LEE SAMA!! everything else? it's just average... |
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Agafin said: One piece is currently an 8/10 for me. Comparing some of my scores to mal’s, each show generally has an increment of about 0.5-1.0. I think One piece should have a mal score of 8.5 so it’s slightly overrated. This is mainly due to the poor animation and pacing. If they were decent, then One piece would’ve been top 50 material but as they are now I think it should be in the 50-100 range. Concerning the Op vs Naruto discussion: Early naruto fights are better than early one piece fights in almost every way imaginable imo. The main problems were that those fights had badly timed jokes that ruined the immersion, poor choregraphy and almost nonexistent strategy or extremely basic if present. One piece’s fights eventually picked up and we have some of the best fights in shonen like Luffy vs Luccy. However, Naruto still wins in quantity. When it comes to world building, One piece absolutely stomps Naruto. Of course, if you’ve only seen 50 episodes of each you may think Naruto’s better due to the different villages and clans but that becomes completely overshadowed later by the several islands of One piece with different types of inhabitants, customs, geographical features, politics, a detailed map ,… basically like in the real world but much more exotic. Maybe. But it should get doing that great stuff earlier than in 200s of something. Besides it's an opinion's matter. I prefer Naruto's world over OP. The goal ''to find One Piece'' is pretty vague, not to mention that they didn't even found it yet. OP is good in it's own way: it is more relaxing, upbeat and fun, but personally I like more engaging and hooking stories with proggresing story, hence my liking to Naruto. |
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tr1ckst3r said: but really people keep saying Naruto fight choreography is better than One Piece is thanks to fucking ROCK LEE SAMA!! everything else? it's just average... It's like choreography is the most important thing in fights. I would say that strategy is better than sheer power, but I didn't see anything, as people imply, so maybe OP has strategic fights also... |
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robis798 said: tr1ckst3r said: but really people keep saying Naruto fight choreography is better than One Piece is thanks to fucking ROCK LEE SAMA!! everything else? it's just average... It's like choreography is the most important thing in fights. I would say that strategy is better than sheer power, but I didn't see anything, as people imply, so maybe OP has strategic fights also... No, It's just because they're talking about Choreography in fighting that I brought this up. |
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robis798 said: short_review said: No. Just no. You have no idea of what you are talking about. Before you talk about one of the big three, read it or watch it. I watched 50 episodes of OP and yeah 50 episodes are absolute nothing. It is impossible to get a slightest idea about what the show is. PLEASE. And I do a lot of research on the shows I am about to drop to see if they get any better. And I heard A LOT about One Piece. I think I have perfectly enough knowledge to make my opinion about those two shows' world building. Get off your high horse. You have watched less than tenth of the anime and the rest is just what a couple people might have said. You absolutely do not have enough knowledge to make a opinion with any value. |
VudisSep 21, 2014 3:43 AM
| Previously: BlueXRam |
Way to go with 1km long quote. Again - PLEASE. It can have 5000 episodes, it can have 20000 episodes, I don't care !!! I watched 50 episodes and it a very big amount to me and if 50 episodes is not good enough amount to make ''opinion of any value'' that it is A BAD SHOW. And these ''couple people'' are actually tons of reviews, forum searches, etc. Believe me I know about OP more than you think. I am only saying that I think Naruto has better world than OP ( imo ) and better fights, BUT I agree that after more than 10 years it's fights have improved. I am not going into plot or anything. Stop being so aggresive, it's not like I saw 1 episode. |
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| @ robis798 Unlike hyped seasonal shows like Snk which have things like titans eating humans to hook people, long running battle shonen generally start off slow ( be it OP, naruto, hxh,etc) so it's not because One piece's is slightly longer that you have to think the show is bad. They are introductory arcs afterall. Anyway, it seems like your opinion about it can't be changed and since you've reached Arlong Park and still don't like it then it's definitely not for you. |
Agafin said: @ robis798 Unlike hyped seasonal shows like Snk which have things like titans eating humans to hook people, long running battle shonen generally start off slow ( be it OP, naruto, hxh,etc) so it's not because One piece's is slightly longer that you have to think the show is bad. They are introductory arcs afterall. Anyway, it seems like your opinion about it can't be changed and since you've reached Arlong Park and still don't like it then it's definitely not for you. I never said OP is bad. It is actually pretty good and Arlong Park arc was definitely best of the introductory arcs, but after learning the fact that nothing majorly changes through out entire 700 episodes I was just really thrown off. I might pick it someday but for now it is just not interesting. So what I wanted to say is that Naruto is better than OP, imo, but it seems that the things why I like Naruto, are the things why people hate Naruto. What can you do. |
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robis798 said: Agafin said: @ robis798 Unlike hyped seasonal shows like Snk which have things like titans eating humans to hook people, long running battle shonen generally start off slow ( be it OP, naruto, hxh,etc) so it's not because One piece's is slightly longer that you have to think the show is bad. They are introductory arcs afterall. Anyway, it seems like your opinion about it can't be changed and since you've reached Arlong Park and still don't like it then it's definitely not for you. I never said OP is bad. It is actually pretty good and Arlong Park arc was definitely best of the introductory arcs, but after learning the fact that nothing majorly changes through out entire 700 episodes I was just really thrown off. I might pick it someday but for now it is just not interesting. So what I wanted to say is that Naruto is better than OP, imo, but it seems that the things why I like Naruto, are the things why people hate Naruto. What can you do. "I watched 50 episodes and it a very big amount to me and if 50 episodes is not good enough amount to make ''opinion of any value'' that it is A BAD SHOW." Amazing job going back on your word. The whole point of One Piece is the journey the crew goes on it's not a 24 episode anime where plot has to completely progress every episode. I don't see how that's hard to understand. |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
BlueXRam said: robis798 said: I never said OP is bad. It is actually pretty good and Arlong Park arc was definitely best of the introductory arcs, but after learning the fact that nothing majorly changes through out entire 700 episodes I was just really thrown off. I might pick it someday but for now it is just not interesting. So what I wanted to say is that Naruto is better than OP, imo, but it seems that the things why I like Naruto, are the things why people hate Naruto. What can you do. "I watched 50 episodes and it a very big amount to me and if 50 episodes is not good enough amount to make ''opinion of any value'' that it is A BAD SHOW." Amazing job going back on your word. The whole point of One Piece is the journey the crew goes on it's not a 24 episode anime where plot has to completely progress every episode. I don't see how that's hard to understand. We all have our preferences. I like proggresion. Is it so hard not to like a show whose story does not progress? Is that so hard to understand? I am not even bashing on OP. Don't see why everyone is so aggresive. |
goodshitgoOdshitSep 20, 2014 2:20 PM
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| But truth is ... if not for the story and the characters, I would rank this anime 3/10 at most. Toei is really butchering Oda's work. I really really wish they would do one episode every 2 weeks and concentrate on quality over quantity. |
| I don't really care about rank but if it's something important, then One Piece should be ranked higher. And it earns the Big Three title (along with Naruto and Bleach) just because of the manga sales (there was a time when Naruto and Bleach somehow managed to get the second and third best selling in JUMP, meanwhile One Piece has always been number one). The fanbase is prominent everywhere, not only in MAL. 1. Characters are unique, interesting, and refreshing. Villains in One Piece are underrated. Even the villains, they are not the generic villains who want to destroy the earth for no reason, and also not the good-guy-becomes-bad-after-traumatic-event-in-the-past (usually with sob backstory in a long flashback). Each villains is special and somehow it fits the arc. For example (Syrup Village arc spoiler) 2. Worldbuilding. I've yet to find a series who can beat One Piece in terms of world building. Setting in One Piece isn't limited to one island. The setting covers the earth (and fyi its earth has multiple moons). Every place has its own design, culture, transportation, and all. If you have time, google interactive One Piece map and be amazed. 3. Story. The best thing about One Piece is: the story is something everyone can enjoy no matter how old s/he is. Of course the older you are, the more you can understand. I can see why some people think it's anime for kids. My 10 yo brother can enjoy the series no problem, he doesn't really understand difficult things like, ancient weapon, void century, etc. But kids don't need to understand those; meanwhile adults are intrigued by those mysteries, create a bunch of theories, think deeper and deeper to predict the outcome. And I think Oda is amazing because of this. 4. Emotional involvement. While it's common to see people cry over a death scene in an anime, have you ever heard people cry over a fictional inanimate object? Nuff said. 5. Creativity. This is why I don't get the fuss over choreography in a supernatural series like One Piece. I mean, the fights are creative enough not to rely on the choreography. I mean, not all people fight in hand to hand combat. And it's even funnier to see someone said that One Piece fights were all the same, that there were only devil fruit and haki in One Piece. Excuse me, even within the main crew we have sniper who fights with slingshot, swordsman who fights with swords in the mouth, navigator who fights with controlling the weather, etc. I'd like to mention more but it's TL;DR enough. Conclusion: One Piece is great, far better than Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, and Bleach (and in case someone finds this offensive, I just mention these anime for comparison just because OP mentioned them). |
wanderingplayboy said: I don't really care about rank but if it's something important, then One Piece should be ranked higher. And it earns the Big Three title (along with Naruto and Bleach) just because of the manga sales (there was a time when Naruto and Bleach somehow managed to get the second and third best selling in JUMP, meanwhile One Piece has always been number one). The fanbase is prominent everywhere, not only in MAL. 1. Characters are unique, interesting, and refreshing. Villains in One Piece are underrated. Even the villains, they are not the generic villains who want to destroy the earth for no reason, and also not the good-guy-becomes-bad-after-traumatic-event-in-the-past (usually with sob backstory in a long flashback). Each villains is special and somehow it fits the arc. For example (Syrup Village arc spoiler) 2. Worldbuilding. I've yet to find a series who can beat One Piece in terms of world building. Setting in One Piece isn't limited to one island. The setting covers the earth (and fyi its earth has multiple moons). Every place has its own design, culture, transportation, and all. If you have time, google interactive One Piece map and be amazed. 3. Story. The best thing about One Piece is: the story is something everyone can enjoy no matter how old s/he is. Of course the older you are, the more you can understand. I can see why some people think it's anime for kids. My 10 yo brother can enjoy the series no problem, he doesn't really understand difficult things like, ancient weapon, void century, etc. But kids don't need to understand those; meanwhile adults are intrigued by those mysteries, create a bunch of theories, think deeper and deeper to predict the outcome. And I think Oda is amazing because of this. 4. Emotional involvement. While it's common to see people cry over a death scene in an anime, have you ever heard people cry over a fictional inanimate object? Nuff said. 5. Creativity. This is why I don't get the fuss over choreography in a supernatural series like One Piece. I mean, the fights are creative enough not to rely on the choreography. I mean, not all people fight in hand to hand combat. And it's even funnier to see someone said that One Piece fights were all the same, that there were only devil fruit and haki in One Piece. Excuse me, even within the main crew we have sniper who fights with slingshot, swordsman who fights with swords in the mouth, navigator who fights with controlling the weather, etc. I'd like to mention more but it's TL;DR enough. Conclusion: One Piece is great, far better than Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, and Bleach (and in case someone finds this offensive, I just mention these anime for comparison just because OP mentioned them). I agree with most of it, but I don't see why '' good-guy-becomes-bad-after-traumatic-event-in-the-past'' is bad in any way. Those are the best villains, because it shows that none of them are evil from the birth. |
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| For me,One Piece is the best shonen of all time. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| I also think it should be ranked higher. It's ranked kinda low because manga readers are giving it a low score for being a "shitty adaptation" |
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PrimeX said: I also think it should be ranked higher. It's ranked kinda low because manga readers are giving it a low score for being a "shitty adaptation" It's not really a shitty adaption,it because the anime is too close to the manga that's why the anime is too slow and dragging. Not really the anime staff fault really. I watch the anime first before the manga and I thought the anime is awesome. |
ZapredonSep 21, 2014 1:55 AM
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
robis798 said: Eh, no, I don't mean that it's bad ^^ Nowadays villains with tragic backstory are everywhere that sometimes it becomes a easy way (for the authors) to justify the actions and an excuse to turn them into good guys again. But still, like everything else, it's good when it's executed right. I agree with most of it, but I don't see why '' good-guy-becomes-bad-after-traumatic-event-in-the-past'' is bad in any way. Those are the best villains, because it shows that none of them are evil from the birth. Maybe it's just my personal preference but I don't like to feel sorry towards the villains (which is bound to happen as a result after a sob backstory) I'd like to respect their ideologies and beliefs. I'd like to understand their reasons for doing bad things but not 'I do this because I suffer', but 'I do this because I believe that blabla'. Villains shouldn't feel they are in the wrong side. True that they weren't evil from the beginning, but it's not like they are so simple that they'd changed easily. They are villains, not rebellious teens who channel their grief and repent their actions after a while. |
Qans said: No I don't. I believe One Piece deserves a 7.5, maybe close to 8 MAX. Not a bad anime, but not a legendary one either as people like to see it. And I say the same for fairy tail. Naruto at least has a serious and interesting story line to make up for the horrible fillers, and Bleach although ended horribly was pretty good for the most part. I mainly watch One Piece for the laughs and to pass the time but never really a serious watch. I'm not a shitter on One Piece it can be enjoyable at times but it's definitely overrated, imo You've watched 4.5 percent of the series, that's enough to dismiss the whole series as just a big show of laughs. |
wanderingplayboy said: I don't really care about rank but if it's something important, then One Piece should be ranked higher. And it earns the Big Three title (along with Naruto and Bleach) just because of the manga sales (there was a time when Naruto and Bleach somehow managed to get the second and third best selling in JUMP, meanwhile One Piece has always been number one). The fanbase is prominent everywhere, not only in MAL. I don't know why you included this part in your post, seems random. But Naruto was the 2nd best selling manga in Japan for several years, not just in Jump, so I don't know what you mean by ''somehow''. And it's just still the 2nd highest selling in terms of volume sales in Jump, and 3rd overall because of SnK. Technically One Piece hasn't always been number one, and in the first half of 2005, Naruto sold more volumes. |
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