Minagatachi said: On a different note, I like how Putin comes in and conveniently puts the blame on, wait for it, Russia's enemy. Bias, what bias? Ukraine is not an enemy of Russia. Period. Perhaps Ukraine considers Russia an enemy, but we sure don't consider them an enemy. Also, Putin is right to some extent. Even if the plane was in fact downed by the rebels, if Poroshenko didn't break the ceasefire agreement a couple days ago it wouldn't have happened because the rebels wouldn't have any reason to shoot at anything in the first place. In the last few days every plane coming into rebel-controlled zone were military and the rebels don't have the equipment which is able to identify between the military and civilian crafts. And once again, the plane wouldn't have to fly there if it wasn't directed there by the Ukrainian air traffic managers first at Kiev and then at Dnepropetrovsk. Planes aren't flying by random, they're flying by set routes and if a certain route is thought to be unsafe it's a duty of the air traffic manager to direct them to a different route if they didn't do that themselves. As maps posted by other users above show, nobody flies over the Eastern Ukraine. Even the same Malaysian plane (which makes regular flights between Amsterdam and Kuala-Lumpur) took different route in the recent days so they were at least aware of the dangers. But this time it was like they were deliberately sent there. |
seishi-samaJul 18, 2014 12:30 AM
| It is really sad to see something like this happen. No surprise really that everyone involved in this armed conflict is accusing the others about what happened. We will have to wait for concrete proof to see what happened, if experts are let to work on the site, if they recover the black box and also have satellite images then we should probably find out why this tragedy took place. seishi-sama said: As maps posted by other users above show, nobody flies over the Eastern Ukraine. Those were released after the plane crash, all planes were supposed to avoid Ukraine's airspace after this terrible event happened, as stated by those who also put these maps here and as it was told on tv and news sites. Were many commercial planes crossing Ukraine's airspace and more importantly Eastern Ukraine's before this? I have no idea, they did not mention this, they did mention that this was not considered a full blown war zone like Irak was and such, that it was mostly dangerous on ground. seishi-sama said: Ukraine is not an enemy of Russia. Period. Perhaps Ukraine considers Russia an enemy, but we sure don't consider them an enemy. Well, I imagine Ukraine considers Russia their enemy, Russia did have a military intervention in Ukraine just recently. Also, it is really no secret that Russia has been helping the rebels with weapons, if it proves that such a weapon was the cause of this crash this will be turning into something even more serious, especially for Russia. But from what I heard, Russia has been distancing itself lately from the rebels. |
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Sourire said: Wasabi said: they better not.. shit will go down if they do.ProRussian separatists in possession of black box. They intend to hand if off to Russia... You should probably stop with your biased assumptions. Russia won't be taking any black boxes, as Russian FM Lavrov just said. It's against international law. OSCE people will be picking them up today or early tomorrow and the investigation will be held by international committee. On the other hand, Ukraine refuses to give them away and claims the investigation should be conducted only by Ukrainian experts. Go figure. |
Zero said: Well, I imagine Ukraine considers Russia their enemy, Russia did have a military intervention in Ukraine just recently. Also, it is really no secret that Russia has been helping the rebels with weapons, if it proves that such a weapon was the cause of this crash this will be turning into something even more serious, especially for Russia. But from what I heard, Russia has been distancing itself lately from the rebels. If that were the case, they wouldn't be having a civil war and campaign of near ethnic cleansing, now would they? There is no proof Russia has been supplying any weaponary, thats a make believe tale, as Kiev and Washington doesn't want to admit all the forces in the East threw down its arms and joined the rebels. Also they have no long range SAM systems, such information is easy to confirm given the signles these things generate is easy to pick up. Though I'm sure if its proven Keiv did it "oops our bad, freedum, murica wez sorry". And that will be that. As to the intervention, out of the last 500 years Only 30 (of those only 15 of which matter) of those was Crimea not part of Russia, 90% of the population was Russian, called themselves Russian, flew Russian flags. As to the Eastern half. That area has always not seen eye to eye. And seperatist sentiments were brewing from 91. They were waiting for word and cause. The Modern Ukrainian State was a marraiged forced at gun point by Stalin, with land in the west taken from other states (namely Poland and Romania, who in turn gained german land), and made worse with Vodka by Krushev. Its no different than the Former Chezchslovikia, or Yugoslavia. And the rebels have already made plans to hand over its boxes, unlike the federalist forces. Who's ranks might I add are bolstered with Neo-nazi drug addicts that as of late have been handeling all heavy weapons as the Ukrainian Army's (unpaid army) Loyality is in doubt. Please feel free to draw your own conclussions on that last statement. |
RedArmyShogunJul 18, 2014 9:08 AM
| Most of the comments on the news websites all say that Britain and Obama planned this out so they could attack Russia. I hate comments on news websites. |
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seishi-sama said: Otlichnii Angliskii! My father used to live in Vladivostok and he taught me some Russian, but I have not used it much while in the states. How is Sankt Petersburg weather right now? I visited my grandmother's apartment near the Nevsky Prospekt a couple months ago, the temp was on average 15 degrees...I like it that way, California is too hot. Anyways, the Ukraine Nationalists iterate that separatists got their hands on "Buk" anti-air defense systems, which was left behind by Ukrainian army, I am aware that if you only have the "Buk" defense system and not the targeter/identifier vehicles the Buk system is useless. Damn, if only I could fight...I can only do what I can. |
I stand with Freedom, no matter the cost, no matter the price. |
| >At least 1 American was on that plane confirmed RIP USA, financially ruined forever by a war we have no business fighting |
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| R.I.P. The people that lost their lives in this horrific crash. I can't wait to see how bad the news people will make this. Like anything thing else they will make it like its the end of the world. Edit: No wait I was wrong they already made this seem like the end of the world. |
"Lelouch, do you know why snow is white? Snow is white, because it's forgotten what color it's supposed to be."  |
Coolspot said: Most of the comments on the news websites all say that Britain and Obama planned this out so they could attack Russia. I hate comments on news websites. You have to admit all this is rather fishy. |
| This was no accident, somebody chose to shoot down that plane, and considering the height it was flying it would have to be taken out by a missile launcher with a targeting system, there's no excuse. Faulty targeting system is also no excuse, its the owners responsibility to maintain the condition of the weapon. Its most likely the rebels who are the cause, especially when on twitter they bragged about shooting down a military plane, pretty much the same time the airline went down. RIP to the people who lost their lives. |
| Malaysian Airlines sure don't have any luck this year do they... I'm never quite sure how to react when I see stuff like this, it's like too terrible to really grasp |
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ElPysCongroo said: This was no accident, somebody chose to shoot down that plane, and considering the height it was flying it would have to be taken out by a missile launcher with a targeting system, there's no excuse. Faulty targeting system is also no excuse, its the owners responsibility to maintain the condition of the weapon. Its most likely the rebels who are the cause, especially when on twitter they bragged about shooting down a military plane, pretty much the same time the airline went down. RIP to the people who lost their lives. Quite the hardliner and close-minded individual, aren't you? I wonder what West Ukrainian news said about the incident to their own citizens: "The plane that was show down was an AN-26, Ukrainian cargo plane just labeled Malaysian Airlines." The UN says it was a Boeing 777. Not an AN-26, is it? The Separatists might be guilty, yes. But few would have the experience and the know-how to operate advanced missile defense systems. Yes, even targeting devices can be faulty. We know this because the US shot down (during Iraq War) two friendly aircraft--a US Navy F/18-A and a British Royal Airforce GR4. 1983, US Patriot Missile Systems abord the USS Vincennes shot down a Iranian Airline Flight #655 (IAF655) 1988, Soviets show down KAL007, Korean Airliner Flight that traveled away from the original flight plan over the Kiril islands (at that time under dispute with Japan on whose islands they really were) and traveled instead over Kamatchka. More likely than not, the same military hardware is present in Russia. And since each airplane has an Identify, Friend or Foe system (IFF) if they wear the wrong tags (or were hacked and thus their tags were replaced with hostile tags, but other people) targeting systems on the missile systems might recognize as hostile and open fire. |
| I stand with Freedom, no matter the cost, no matter the price. |
Jayex said: The Separatists might be guilty, yes. But few would have the experience and the know-how to operate advanced missile defense systems. Then they shouldn't be using one. It would be the same as if I got into a car and drove down the street and killed someone, because I don't know how to drive a car. Someone is responsible whether that be rebels or the army. |
| I like how everyone I know in RL are pointing the blame at Russia and the Rebels simply because the news is reporting that the alleged missile used was that of the Warsaw Pact. Contrary to cheeseburger belief, Western powers also have supplies of such weapons. Yes, someone shot that plane down. The question is, who would benefit from it? and more importantly, who are the best at telling lies and deflecting? |
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Duri1n said: xenofire said: I like how everyone I know in RL are pointing the blame at Russia and the Rebels simply because the news is reporting that the alleged missile used was that of the Warsaw Pact. Contrary to cheeseburger belief, Western powers also have supplies of such weapons. Yes, someone shot that plane down. The question is, who would benefit from it? and more importantly, who are the best at telling lies and deflecting? I'm actually of the belief that it was an accident by the Seperatists. While it hasn't been officially confirmed, it seems unlikely that anyone but the Separatists could've done such a thing. However, I don't think it was a terrorist attack. I think they were targetting Ukrainian planes, and it makes sense for them to be doing so, unfortunately, this time, they made a huge blunder... Of course, this is only my theory, but it's what I deem the most plausible. The real question to me is why the route was still left open. I genuinely feel Malaysian Airlines cannot be blamed for flying on a route that was cleared as safe by aviation authorities. In fact, MH17 was not the only airplane above Ukrainian airspace at the time. Both Singapore Airlines and Indian airlines had planes a mere 25 km from the area where MH17 was shot down accordin to flight radar 24. Also, will it be possible for a proper investigation to take place? I think there's too much nonsense going around about who's to blame and who has access to what. It's already tragic enough that so many have died. At least allow the investigators from the internationally recognised and neutral organisations like the OCSE into the site to examine and collect the bodies, never mind the black boxes and other wreckages. The fact that countries like the US and Ukraine are so strongly implying that all blame should go to Russia isn't helping things, imo... not that I'm saying Russia isn't responsible in any way, there's a strong possibility of them being involved, at least in supplying the weapons, but saying they should take full responsibility for the tragedy? That's a bit too much. Even if they did supply those weapons, blaming Russia would be like blamin the gun seller for the crimes his customer committed with the gun... Then again, we don't even know if the missile was shot by pro-Russian rebels. For all we know, it could've been Ukrainian forces... this seems to be a popular conspiracy theory atm. I'm not takin it seriously (yet) but it is a bit hard to believe rebels have far more sophisticated and better trained soldiers than the Ukrainian government. Also, the recording released on the news by Ukrainian intelligence of the supposed leaders finding out they shot down a civilian plane sounds a bit too covenient and a tad fishy... still, it's a CONSPIRACY THEORY... so I'm not gonna dwell on it... just like how others shouldnt be making assumptions so early Sure as hell doesn't help the separatist's cause when they're actively blocking the OCSE from accessing the crash site, and firing off warning shots for whatever reason. |
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Duri1n said: xenofire said: The real question to me is why the route was still left open. I genuinely feel Malaysian Airlines cannot be blamed for flying on a route that was cleared as safe by aviation authorities. In fact, MH17 was not the only airplane above Ukrainian airspace at the time. Both Singapore Airlines and Indian airlines had planes a mere 25 km from the area where MH17 was shot down accordin to flight radar 24.I like how everyone I know in RL are pointing the blame at Russia and the Rebels simply because the news is reporting that the alleged missile used was that of the Warsaw Pact. Contrary to cheeseburger belief, Western powers also have supplies of such weapons. Yes, someone shot that plane down. The question is, who would benefit from it? and more importantly, who are the best at telling lies and deflecting? You're right about not blaming MH about the crash. MH17’s flight plan was approved by Eurocontrol. It's a normal route for Airlines flying from Europe to Asia. It was considered 'Safe'. |
| "Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that" |
ElPysCongroo said: Jayex said: The Separatists might be guilty, yes. But few would have the experience and the know-how to operate advanced missile defense systems. Then they shouldn't be using one. It would be the same as if I got into a car and drove down the street and killed someone, because I don't know how to drive a car. Someone is responsible whether that be rebels or the army. Doesn't seem to stop Kiev shelling civilians does it. |
NewhopesJul 18, 2014 2:43 PM
Newhopes said: Doesn't seem to stop Kiev shelling civilians does it. I ain't defend either side, for starters its a full on civil war so really its an internal problem for the Ukraine. The thing is the Army has no reason to shoot down planes, as I'm pretty sure the rebels don't have an air-force, with the only planes helping the rebels is Russia there's no way would they shoot down a Russian plane, which would give Russia a good cause to go to war. The rebels though have actually already shot down military planes of the government, and were seen bragging on twitter that they had shot another military plane around the same time this plane went down, it wasn't intentional but there still responsible. The consequences of some of the people who died on that plane, with one of them being a lead researcher on AIDS, could lead to setbacks on the progress of developing a cure by months/years and every day that is setback that's another death, all because of some trigger happy rebel. |
| what the hell do you expect when you fly an airplane in hostile territory while this is bad you cant do anything about it now |
| RRRRRRRRRR |
| My fellow Filipino citizens there died. :( |
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| Western propaganda at work, the West has been itching at the bit to get into a conflict with Russia. Don't believe everything you see/read, folks, the mainstream media has a track record of lying to its viewers to serve the agenda of the powers that be. |
| Well, here's what we know so far: 1) There is little dispute that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. 2) Both sides identified the weapon used as a Buk-M1 (NATO: SA-11 Gadfly, or SA-17 Grizzly for M1-2 and later variants). This is a large, medium-range missile fired from a mobile armored vehicle. Now, despite what some reports have stated, one of the primary changes of the Buk system from the previus Kub (the SA-6 that gave Israel so much trouble in 1973) was the addition of a fire control system in the launcher. Thus, the Buk-M1 launcher can operate on its own. While normally paired with longer-range search and tracking radars, this is not necessary. This could be important. 3) The Ukraine, as with most former Soviet republics, has Buk missile systems in its inventory, as does Russia. Prior to the downing of the plane, there had been reports that the rebels had captured one and possibly received more, with training and other assistance, from Russia. These had not at the time been confirmed. 4) The training time, according to Russian manuals, needed to gain proficiency with the system is at least 2 years. Obviously, even if they got it from Russia, the Rebels have not had the system anywhere near that long. They would only have the basic course and not the 2 years of operational training. 5) Ukraine has provided pictures of a Buk launcher with two missile missing that they said was crossing the border into Russia. However, it is not yet possible to independently verify either the timing or location of the photo. 6) Shortly after the 777 was downed, a supposed rebel source indicated shooting down a military transport plane with advanced missiles, ostensibly the Buk. I've heard conflicting reports as to whether this actually happened, might have been in response to an earlier incident, etc. Regardless, the boast was removed when news of the 777 got out. 7) Reports indicate that Putin told Obama of the incident before the press had reported it. Him knowing first, however, would not be surprising if he's actively engaged in Ukraine's civil war, which an open secret. 8) Information on the ground is conflicting, but it is highly unlikely that the crash scene has been preserved and evidence not actively tampered with. 9) Most Russian reports of Ukrainian atrocities against civilians have either been failed to be independently verified or outright proven to be false. It's not quite the cruel and barbaric regime Russians paint it as. That's mostly propaganda to gin up support for the rebels at home. 10) Ukraine, unless this is a cynical ploy to get western support, has no reason to be shooting down any planes. The rebels don't have any, and shooting a Russian one would guarantee a military incursion. Therefore, only a plot straight out of a Hollywood movie would give rise to such an event from the Ukrainian side. If you ask me, suggesting that is giving the Ukrainian regime too much credit. They've already shown they're not that savvy. 11) Russia likewise has no reason to shoot down a plane, as they would be the obvious point of blame if Ukraine didn't do it. They would likewise not be looking toward that Hollywood-style plot, as it's more likely to destroy their carefully crafted image of their role in the conflict than help them. 12) The rebels have no reason to intentionally shoot down a civilian airliner either, especially one from another nation just flying over the area. Putting it together, if the rebels had Buk systems and if those were manned by trained rebels instead of Russian advisors (for deniability purposes), that would certainly go a long way to explaining this kind of error, which has happened before even in better trained and experienced militaries. This would be my vote for what happened. In this case, Russia would indeed bear the ultimate blame as it supplied the weapons and training, but left them in the control of personnel not fully versed in using them. Oh, and one other thing: 13) The Ukrainian regime is absolutely not US-backed. The US has no real designs for the region and aside from the basic human and civil rights issues and rule of law, never cared that much from the beginning. As such, it has not offered much beyond rhetoric at any point. There's been no real military assistance, and even the economic aid sent has been limited. If anyone's really backing the Ukrainian regime, it's a collection of western European nations. |
ErwinJA said: 13) The Ukrainian regime is absolutely not US-backed. The US has no real designs for the region and aside from the basic human and civil rights issues and rule of law, never cared that much from the beginning. As such, it has not offered much beyond rhetoric at any point. There's been no real military assistance, and even the economic aid sent has been limited. If anyone's really backing the Ukrainian regime, it's a collection of western European nations. The Maidan movement has been financially supported by George Soros, a Jewish-American billionnaire of Hungarian descent, who makes no secret out of his aspirations to induce regime changes in eastern europe. Coincidentally both the new president as well as the prime minister of the Ukraine are also Jews. So are the new mayor of Kiev Vladimir Klitschko (not jewish according to law, but reportedly a believer of Judaism) and multiple oligarchs who have been given administrative government positions in eastern Ukraine. Pretty funny, considering Jews make up a whopping 0.2% of the Ukrainian population. But I'm sure that this is really all just coincidence and not some deliberate plot to install a Jewish government in the Ukraine that opens the Ukrainian market to western companies, so people like George Soros can get even richer. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| Wow, all these conspiracy theories. Honestly, there is no need to explain something with malice that can be explained with stupidity. This incident only happened because the rebels were stupid in a tragic scale, that's it. I hope though, that there will be some intervention from the EU now. |
| your waifu is shit |
| Sorry but you guys should read this this guy has been researching and analyzing everything on this no coincidence this might be some kind of Faked ... well just take a look http://www.tatoott1009.com/2014/07/18/smoking-gun-intercepted-calls-point-finger-at-russian-separatists-in-jet-downing/ |
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Shiratori99 said: ErwinJA said: 13) The Ukrainian regime is absolutely not US-backed. The US has no real designs for the region and aside from the basic human and civil rights issues and rule of law, never cared that much from the beginning. As such, it has not offered much beyond rhetoric at any point. There's been no real military assistance, and even the economic aid sent has been limited. If anyone's really backing the Ukrainian regime, it's a collection of western European nations. The Maidan movement has been financially supported by George Soros, a Jewish-American billionnaire of Hungarian descent, who makes no secret out of his aspirations to induce regime changes in eastern europe. Coincidentally both the new president as well as the prime minister of the Ukraine are also Jews. So are the new mayor of Kiev Vladimir Klitschko (not jewish according to law, but reportedly a believer of Judaism) and multiple oligarchs who have been given administrative government positions in eastern Ukraine. Pretty funny, considering Jews make up a whopping 0.2% of the Ukrainian population. But I'm sure that this is really all just coincidence and not some deliberate plot to install a Jewish government in the Ukraine that opens the Ukrainian market to western companies, so people like George Soros can get even richer. Protip: George Soros is not the United States. Private citizens do not represent their countries, even ones with outsized political influence (and Soros's influence tends to be significantly overstated). All the (Glen Beck style) connecting in the world cannot tie private citizens to the stance of the United States government, which is clearly noncommittal. Also, your argument died with the excessive use of the word "Jew" and its other forms. You should have used "rich," as empirical evidence shows no correlation between Jewishness and conspiracies. And most conspiracies purported to be Jewish in nature turned out to be completely false. Truth is, most Jews that don't have money involved either don't care, or if of Ukrainian descent, get out the popcorn to watch their old oppressors knock themselves silly. There's a reason Jews are now only 0.2% of the population. rafi160 said: It wasn't an episode, but a feature length special that came out 8 years after the last TV series ended. It's also the only one never released in the US.Has Anyone see the late 80's, 90's anime City Hunter? The episode were Ryo is being framed by some high tech CGI computer? well that tech is real And for that matter, they used similar stuff in Schwarzenegger's "The Running Man," though with slightly different intent. The imaginative possibilities have always been far and beyond the practicality of doing it, as it's very hard to put something together that doesn't fall apart to scrutiny - even photoshopped and staged pictures usually get found out. A video would be far harder to fake. |
ErwinJA said: Protip: George Soros is not the United States. Private citizens do not represent their countries, even ones with outsized political influence (and Soros's influence tends to be significantly overstated). All the (Glen Beck style) connecting in the world cannot tie private citizens to the stance of the United States government, which is clearly noncommittal. Also, your argument died with the excessive use of the word "Jew" and its other forms. You should have used "rich," as empirical evidence shows no correlation between Jewishness and conspiracies. And most conspiracies purported to be Jewish in nature turned out to be completely false. Truth is, most Jews that don't have money involved either don't care, or if of Ukrainian descent, get out the popcorn to watch their old oppressors knock themselves silly. There's a reason Jews are now only 0.2% of the population. Jews, the eternal victims. Oy vey! But yeah, please explain this vast overrepresentation of Jews in the new Ukrainian government to me without resorting to "conspiracy theories". |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| I heard the plane was shot down because it was mistaken for another similar looking military plane. |
| So the "terrorists" (USA) that shot down an Iranian civilian plane in 1988 killing 290 passengers on board, and the "terrorists" (Ukraine) that shot down a Russian civilian plane in 2001 killing 78 passengers on board, are now accusing the rebels in being "terrorists" due to shooting down a Malaysian civilian plane... in a warzone... Is it just me, or this situation is plain ridicilous? |
| ... |
Duri1n said: Pro-Russian separatists Honestly, it so f@#king pisses me off that people keep calling the Ukrainian rebels "pro-Russian separatists". They're neither separatists nor they are pro-Russian. They seek neither a split from Ukraine nor they want to be a part of Russia. All they want is to make Ukraine a federation (like Russia and USA, for instance) instead of unitary state it currently is, that's all. |
| Really weird |
JonyJC said: Really weird Not weird at all. All airlines are avoiding Ukraine airspace ever since MH-17 went down. |
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| So is there going to be an investigation or not? I am pro-Donetsk, but this has to be solved asap. Might be a turning point in favor of Ukraine as horrible as it sounds. Condolences to the families of course. |
| S H O U T _ O L D _ B U T _ G O L D |
Shiratori99 said: ErwinJA said: Protip: George Soros is not the United States. Private citizens do not represent their countries, even ones with outsized political influence (and Soros's influence tends to be significantly overstated). All the (Glen Beck style) connecting in the world cannot tie private citizens to the stance of the United States government, which is clearly noncommittal. Also, your argument died with the excessive use of the word "Jew" and its other forms. You should have used "rich," as empirical evidence shows no correlation between Jewishness and conspiracies. And most conspiracies purported to be Jewish in nature turned out to be completely false. Truth is, most Jews that don't have money involved either don't care, or if of Ukrainian descent, get out the popcorn to watch their old oppressors knock themselves silly. There's a reason Jews are now only 0.2% of the population. Jews, the eternal victims. Oy vey! But yeah, please explain this vast overrepresentation of Jews in the new Ukrainian government to me without resorting to "conspiracy theories". Well, it helps if it's, well, true. The President of the Ukraine is confirmed Eastern Orthodox. That's Christian, not Jewish. The Prime Minister has been suggested to be of Jewish descent in some reports, but none of those appear to be properly sourced and it might just be a political smear seeing as, just like I've indicated, Jews are quite hated in his political circles. The most credible evidence suggests that he isn't Jewish. Even if he is, his attitudes and personal history are well removed from the Jewish community, and are more in line with a good former Soviet citizen. A search for the Mayor of Kiev provides only heavily biased, mostly pro-Russian sources suggesting him being Jewish. That looks more like propaganda than properly sourced reporting. Judging from his personal history, he would appear nothing of the sort. Even if he turns out to be Jewish by descent, his history, like the PM, is far more strongly Soviet. In short, the reason you're seeing an overrepresentation of Jews is because you're being fed propaganda. The truth is far less suspicious. I told you before: most Jewish "conspiracies" turn out to be patently false upon closer observation. |
ErwinJAJul 20, 2014 4:56 AM
| HAPPENING |
ErwinJA said: Well, it helps if it's, well, true. The President of the Ukraine is confirmed Eastern Orthodox. That's Christian, not Jewish. The Prime Minister has been suggested to be of Jewish descent in some reports, but none of those appear to be properly sourced and it might just be a political smear seeing as, just like I've indicated, Jews are quite hated in his political circles. The most credible evidence suggests that he isn't Jewish. Even if he is, his attitudes and personal history are well removed from the Jewish community, and are more in line with a good former Soviet citizen. A search for the Mayor of Kiev provides only heavily biased, mostly pro-Russian sources suggesting him being Jewish. That looks more like propaganda than properly sourced reporting. Judging from his personal history, he would appear nothing of the sort. Even if he turns out to be Jewish by descent, his history, like the PM, is far more strongly Soviet. In short, the reason you're seeing an overrepresentation of Jews is because you're being fed propaganda. The truth is far less suspicious. I told you before: most Jewish "conspiracies" turn out to be patently false upon closer observation. Do you know what "Orthodoxy" is? In one statement, in one sentence, most members of the Orthodoxy would agree with me if I defined Orthodoxy as "The Love of the Enemy." Poroshenko is anything but. He declares vengeance and yells fire and maelstrom against the Ukrainians in the East. He says, "for every soldier we lose we will kill ten, no, hundreds of theirs" His government leaders and his staunchest supporters are worse. They label the Eastern Ukrainians as "pigs, terrorists, and rebel scum." Meanwhile, even the Eastern Ukrainians who have lost so much do not curse the Western Ukrainians, of whom had joined their government leaders in labeling their Eastern brethren rather unfairly. Instead, the Eastern Ukrainians blame the government, not the people. It is the Eastern Ukrainian's greatest desire to be free. Maybe, if not Russia will take Eastern Ukraine, at least be free of the fascist Ukrainian grip. You see, in the end it is all about money. Eastern Ukraine holds 30% of the Ukrainian GDP, and yet amounts to a smaller amount of population than Western Ukraine. Western Ukraine has shown itself to be willing to step over, kill, murder, rape, steal, and take over by force the Eastern Ukrainians assets. And for what cost? The lives of many innocents. Doubt my words? Look around you. Do research--you will see what I mean. Ah, but if you cannot read Chinese, French, German, Ukrainian, or Russian, you might not be able to cross-compare other nationality news, of whom some are less biased than others. So the ignorant will continue to listen to the propaganda their nation blasts at them, across multiple networks--connected by the great weaver, the AP, or Associated Propaganda--and strive to do no further to educate themselves and be wary of the great and true aggressor against freedom. I wonder how so many people can miss the point. People are selfish and greedy, we will do what is best for us. As for the Eastern Ukrainians, freedom...that is the best for them. Outside of Russian and Ukrainian influence--just freedom. And that is what they fight for. Let the Americans, Russians, Ukrainians, French, Chinese, whatever nation out there that is biased and unknowing, let them twist words to suit their causes whatsoever. We fight for freedom. And it is freedom we will die for. |
| I stand with Freedom, no matter the cost, no matter the price. |
ErwinJA said: Shiratori99 said: Jews, the eternal victims. Oy vey! But yeah, please explain this vast overrepresentation of Jews in the new Ukrainian government to me without resorting to "conspiracy theories". Well, it helps if it's, well, true. The President of the Ukraine is confirmed Eastern Orthodox. That's Christian, not Jewish. The Prime Minister has been suggested to be of Jewish descent in some reports, but none of those appear to be properly sourced and it might just be a political smear seeing as, just like I've indicated, Jews are quite hated in his political circles. The most credible evidence suggests that he isn't Jewish. Even if he is, his attitudes and personal history are well removed from the Jewish community, and are more in line with a good former Soviet citizen. A search for the Mayor of Kiev provides only heavily biased, mostly pro-Russian sources suggesting him being Jewish. That looks more like propaganda than properly sourced reporting. Judging from his personal history, he would appear nothing of the sort. Even if he turns out to be Jewish by descent, his history, like the PM, is far more strongly Soviet. In short, the reason you're seeing an overrepresentation of Jews is because you're being fed propaganda. The truth is far less suspicious. I told you before: most Jewish "conspiracies" turn out to be patently false upon closer observation. Jews are a people, not just a religion. That's why there are jewish atheists, jewish christians and even jewish muslims. Jews generally help out one another, regardless of their religious beliefs. The prime minister is a crypto-jew and hides his Jewish identity for political purposes, but has been confirmed to be Jewish by Jewish magazines themselves. Klitschko has Jewish grandparents and is reportedly a believer of Judaism. That is enough to count as Jewish for the purpose of immigrating to Israel. Jews have formed strong ethnic networks whereever they settled, the former SU is no exception. That American Jews help out Ukrainian Jews to ascend to political power is thus a normal occurrence. That you are not aware of these networks, even though they are so prominent especially in America, shows that it's rather you who has fallen victim to politically correct propaganda. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
| I'm starting to get the feeling that all of this crap with the plane won't end in favour of Kiev. Considering that both Russia and USA have military satellites, both Obama and Putin should be aware of what truly happened since the moment that plane hit the ground. Way too many convenient coincidences led to the tragedy, and as soon as word gets out why the plane really ended up diverting from its path and being requested to drop altitude (please, no bad weather excuses again!), the world media will suddenly decide its about time to refocus attention towards the terrible things happening in Gaza or elsewhere random in the world :'D |
| ... |
| Kiev is really fishy to be honest, one example is the audio they claim was Rebels talking about the plane it was upload the day before the crash.... |
| Finally some actual sense in here, instead of conspiracy theory bullshit. |
Russia’s Ministry of Defence holds a press-conference on the Malaysian plane tragedy and presents evidence. |
| ... |
| http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28413467 The black boxes have been turned over to the Malaysian experts by the rebels Link also contains an image of the crash site, taken by satellite. |
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