Communism Not a form of government. |
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Dreamtheater2112 said: democratic...fuck that shit...elites that know what they're doing are the only ones that should rule... Historical precedent is laughing at you |
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ukonkivi said: Communism Not a form of government. It's a pity for that economic system; for it must use totalitiarianism in order to implement it. Democratically, people will opt against it in favor of their own gains. Selfishness... And, can we trust a market to regulate itself? No, see 2008 Financial Crisis. |
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aggra-aggra said: Dreamtheater2112 said: democratic...fuck that shit...elites that know what they're doing are the only ones that should rule... Historical precedent is laughing at you I'm aware...I was poking fun at some of the responses in this thread, for the exact reason you mentioned |
| Solution to the Australian problem: Move to America. XD |
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| All Governments is bullshits with their lies, charms, promises and figure of speech. I don't like em one bit. Even a good government can go corrupted and baf government will cause war. |
| I don't care. I don't pay attention to politics, therefore I have no interest in any form of government. |
 ~ ♥♦♣♠ |
KyuuA4 said: I was not aware that wanting more freedom made you selfish.It's a pity for that economic system; for it must use totalitiarianism in order to implement it. Democratically, people will opt against it in favor of their own gains. Selfishness... |
Defiance said: Well, if you consider that the whole point to a society is sacrificing some freedom in order to get security, wanting even more freedom does come off as rather selfish.I was not aware that wanting more freedom made you selfish. But it's not as if we can blame people for that, we're all supposed to be selfish after all. |
Baman said: In my opinion, one of the most selfish acts of all is to covet another person's belongings(in this case, wealth).Defiance said: Well, if you consider that the whole point to a society is sacrificing some freedom in order to get security, wanting even more freedom does come off as rather selfish.I was not aware that wanting more freedom made you selfish. But it's not as if we can blame people for that, we're all supposed to be selfish after all. |
ChaaSha said: I don't care. I don't pay attention to politics, therefore I have no interest in any form of government. it's cool if you don't care about politics but i think you really should be more observant about governments... it's important to know. |
the_seventh_l said: ChaaSha said: I don't care. I don't pay attention to politics, therefore I have no interest in any form of government. Ah, youth. Over time, I've gradually come to terms with this phenomenon as one of the better features of representative democracy -- that is, a significant portion of people who have little interest in the public discourse or even outcomes willingly remove themselves from the process. It's almost like a stealth meritocracy in a way -- a meritocracy of concern. Of course, this is largely thwarted by the fact that plenty of people with little to no idea of what is going on with their government still show up at the polls to throw the lever for whatever party they (or the herd they're following) fancy that day. I honestly wouldn't be completely averse to the idea of requiring a license or permit to vote based on a simple understanding of basic civics knowledge and public issues. If some people can't be bothered to put down their bag of Cheetos, turn off the tube, and stand a few minutes in a line to vote, then requiring an almost trivial display of governmental concern in addition will really thin out those who probably shouldn't be voting in the first place. This is also why those places which require mandatory voting like Argentina perplex me. You need permits to drive and own a gun, and this activity is at least as dangerous as those, in the big picture. Of course, someone like Edward Gibbon would argue that passively removing people from the process, while producing short-term benefits for the voting class, would eventually lead to the decay of the society due to long-term disappearance of civic virtue, in which he would probably be correct. |
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Iri said: It bothers me to think that online voting is being introduced here these days.I honestly wouldn't be completely averse to the idea of requiring a license or permit to vote based on a simple understanding of basic civics knowledge and public issues. If some people can't be bothered to put down their bag of Cheetos, turn off the tube, and stand a few minutes in a line to vote, then requiring an almost trivial display of governmental concern in addition will really thin out those who probably shouldn't be voting in the first place. Still, I suppose those that are not even remotely interested in politics wouldn't even know the address and which ID numbers to log in with anyways. But requiring a test of some sort to be an eligible voter and maybe having to write why you voted as you did would probably be a good idea imo. |
KyuuA4 said: ukonkivi said: Communism Not a form of government. It's a pity for that economic system; for it must use totalitiarianism in order to implement it. Democratically, people will opt against it in favor of their own gains. Selfishness... And, can we trust a market to regulate itself? No, see 2008 Financial Crisis. I think what he meant was that communism is supposed to be a stateless/classless society that arises when the state in transitionary socialism (e.g., dictatorship of the proletariat) "withers away" (coined by Engels). |
| "When he will, the weary world Of the senses closely curled Like a serpent round his heart Shakes herself and stands apart." - A.C., Equinox I/I |
Defiance said: Baman said: In my opinion, one of the most selfish acts of all is to covet another person's belongings(in this case, wealth).Defiance said: Well, if you consider that the whole point to a society is sacrificing some freedom in order to get security, wanting even more freedom does come off as rather selfish.I was not aware that wanting more freedom made you selfish. But it's not as if we can blame people for that, we're all supposed to be selfish after all. Most Marxists would agree with you there. They would, however, disagree with you over what exactly constitute's "personal belongings". It is my understanding that they believe one is entitled to all of the fruits of one's labour, and that one's wealth should be entirely derived from how hard, long, and smart they work. In other words, people shouldn't be able to make money by delegating their own work to other people (i.e., burgeoise, who earn more money than can be derived from the value of their management-labour). The idea of "wage slavery" is essentially that there is a de-facto law that everyone must work in situations where they are not compensated fully for the value of their labour (that is, they work the equvilent of their pay in the first few hours and then work for free afterwards, which is a requirement for people in the business to gain profit, that is, money not related to their own labour), and thus exist in a state of de-facto "waged" slavery. |
| "When he will, the weary world Of the senses closely curled Like a serpent round his heart Shakes herself and stands apart." - A.C., Equinox I/I |
Baman said: Defiance said: Well, if you consider that the whole point to a society is sacrificing some freedom in order to get security, wanting even more freedom does come off as rather selfish.I was not aware that wanting more freedom made you selfish. But it's not as if we can blame people for that, we're all supposed to be selfish after all. Yup... as noble as the Bill of Rights are... Americans tend to forget the things that they're responsible for... To demand more rights without accepting responsibility... that's not cool. |
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ladyxzeus said: Any form of government. This. |
ChaaSha said: I don't care. I don't pay attention to politics, therefore I have no interest in any form of government. When you're old -- you'll be bitching about Health Care... |
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| Anything with humans. Also anything with hierarchy. Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. |
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Kaisereddie said: Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Well, given the scenario -- we'd be more than willing to fight against something like that: |
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Kaisereddie said: Anything with humans. Also anything with hierarchy. Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. you had me up until the word anarchy |
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NEVER-BEND-HER said: Kaisereddie said: Anything with humans. Also anything with hierarchy. Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. you had me up until the word anarchy in b4 debate over whether a state can exist without hierarchy or whether a horizontal government can properly constitute a state. |
| "When he will, the weary world Of the senses closely curled Like a serpent round his heart Shakes herself and stands apart." - A.C., Equinox I/I |
NEVER-BEND-HER said: Kaisereddie said: Anything with humans. Also anything with hierarchy. Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. you had me up until the word anarchy You can't skip hierarchy and then not get anarchy, though. So...? KyuuA4 said: Kaisereddie said: Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Well, given the scenario -- we'd be more than willing to fight against something like that: The bugs weren't posthuman anarchists, they were more like a class-based monocracy. And certainly not posthuman. Their most advanced technologies were either creating pseudo-zombies or brainwashing choice admirals into being crazy awesome. But yeah, it's exactly because humans are stupid enough to run off into such stupid wars we aren't very well suited to governing much anything. |
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rTz said: NEVER-BEND-HER said: Kaisereddie said: Anything with humans. Also anything with hierarchy. Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. you had me up until the word anarchy in b4 debate over whether a state can exist without hierarchy or whether a horizontal government can properly constitute a state. i dont think i can be bothered to debate with kaiser about this tbh he is a pedant after all. i just think that for me being left alone to do what i wish. as long as it doesnt harm anyone and not have to worry about money for anything like food and education home. is fine for me. having my freedom reduced to nothing more than a box made my constant stuggle for money and food and if tomorow might get a bit upset and hurt me is just lame. i had a dream i had rianbows in and stuff it was so cool....oh look a pile of shit that is my life. what was that dream aagin somthing about rain..... putting that into practice making it reality is a lot hard than just typing it out as a thought. |
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| ... and NEVER-BEND-HER never-got-into-tertiary-education because he never could form coherent sentences. Now he works a 7-11 night shift, and doesn't want to worry about the complex matter that is money... |
Dreamtheater2112 said: I'm aware...I was poking fun at some of the responses in this thread, for the exact reason you mentioned Oh, that's good. There's just no telling here. |
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Kaisereddie said: Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Oh wait... more like History Channel's special: Life After People http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people Now, this was an interesting watch. Basically, hypothesizing what would happen to the remains of civilization -- after people die off. |
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| Dont know much bout politics... |
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| The Polish Donald Duck one. |
| Not really a big fan of Socialism, Communism, and Federal Republics. Although they are potentially and theoretically great ideas... it never really quite works out. I also never really liked Polyarchys, a.k.a. representative democracy and more. |
| What isn't red? What isn't blue? |
Medeasenpai said: The Polish Donald Duck one. Donald Duck is a Nazi: |
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KyuuA4 said: Kaisereddie said: Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Oh wait... more like History Channel's special: Life After People http://www.history.com/content/life_after_people Now, this was an interesting watch. Basically, hypothesizing what would happen to the remains of civilization -- after people die off. Nope. Posthumanism is a sort-of ethical daydreaming hope for humankind to transcend itself by way of technology, becoming cyborgs, mind-uploaded, eternal and vastly intelligent beings. It's based entirely on the hope of the technological singularity coming soon, which while it by trends in history is likely to, is also a bit of over-wishful thinking as far as positive results go (because we're not posthuman after implementing it, and that means we sill screw everything up until then). Killing mankind is the other solution, of course, a tad bit more hard to convince people it's a good idea, though. I don't try that card too often. It's as if people have a pathological fear of dying. |
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Kaisereddie said: Posthumanism is a sort-of ethical daydreaming hope for humankind to transcend itself by way of technology, becoming cyborgs I would hate a plastic dick. |
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Esley said: Kaisereddie said: Posthumanism is a sort-of ethical daydreaming hope for humankind to transcend itself by way of technology, becoming cyborgs I would hate a plastic dick. Oh you can skip the dick entirely. RavenTheDark said: I'm not a fan of any type of Govt. Here's a list of reasons why I don't like any type of governments: 1) Governments are not Legitimate entities. They are fictional just like country's and citizens. 2) Here in the US citizens can't Legally own anything. 3) Citizens here in the US are property of the Government since the 1930's. 4) I hate governments in general, because none could ever possibly work as long as a human exists. In able for a government to work properly it would need to be uncorruptable which is humanly impossible IMO. 5) Governments NEVER care about the "people" and they rarely ever care about the "citizens." I also have a pet peeve. I hate when other countries call US "citizens" stupid or don't know anything at all. Yes I agree there are some stupid people in this country, but the rest of the world is pretty stupid for taking US currency and NOT realizing it isn't legit. I mean how is it that not even one country hasn't noticed this generally speaking? I mean I'm only 20 and know this BS it's not hard to research at all......... Sorry for the rant I just had to say something I'm just sick of stupid countries -_- I could go on but i'll stop for now... Nope. 1) Legitimacy is dependant on the government; it is not illegitimate for being a government, it is by not wholly legitimizing its authority in whatever it has authority. 2) Yeah, yeah they can. Large parts of the law is exactly about defining ownership and who has it and whatnot. 3) Where did you get this from? While it exercises illegitimate authority, "own" is entirely too hard. Slavery is not very much like what the federal government does on your side of the pacific. 4) Okay, but no IMO works here, that's a verifiable and falsifiable claim, thus scientific, thus not about opinion at all. 5) This is a wide, vague claim. I am rather sure that "they" do care - they consist of people too, after all. Now, the degree to which they care is entirely variable. And yeah, that fallacy where they call all US citizens stupid? That is exactly what you just did to governments. Rigour mah boi. |
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Kaisereddie said: Well, I suppose putting Posthuman in front makes it sound more viable.Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Anarchy would never work without the Post part, that would just be degenerating back to the natural state, and after all, wanting to avoid the chaos and uncertainty of it was the very reason people created governments and societies in the first place, so jumping back to it would be pretty silly. I'm partial to leaving the governing to a superior sentient AI myself. RavenTheDark said: That's ridiculous. All functioning governments are more or less legitimate. If they weren't, the people would rebel and overthrow them. Legitimacy for a government is based on whatever laws they are bound by, which is defined by the people, and reliant on the acknowledgment of the masses.1) Governments are not Legitimate entities. They are fictional just like country's and citizens. |
Baman said: Kaisereddie said: Well, I suppose putting Posthuman in front makes it sound more viable.Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Anarchy would never work without the Post part, that would just be degenerating back to the natural state, and after all, wanting to avoid the chaos and uncertainty of it was the very reason people created governments and societies in the first place, so jumping back to it would be pretty silly. I'm partial to leaving the governing to a superior sentient AI myself. I don't know about the "won't work" part; the Paris Commune worked well, as did Barcelona/Catalonia. The problem is not internal; it is external forces that want to subjugate you for various reasons. Anarchy works excellently for many kinds of production, though evidently it isn't good at all in war. ...Especially not against an outnumbering enemy. And as for letting an AI do the work, why? After all, by the posthuman state, there would be no difference except ontogeny. Humans would all be as smart as AIs, partly being such themselves. |
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Indirect_Purple said: ... and NEVER-BEND-HER never-got-into-tertiary-education because he never could form coherent sentences. Now he works a 7-11 night shift, and doesn't want to worry about the complex matter that is money... im too busy to worry about money. these shelves wont stack themelves. this is why im on kaisereddies side because in a posthuman w/emagig robots will do the hard task like staking shelves. with the new pin systems paying at the till wil be as easy as waving your hand over a strip. basically when all that sorted out then people can realy get on and do whatever they want which is mainly having sex wacthing anime masturbating ans wot not. but shit if we all become like matrix wombs living in total closure and then the only few select people go out and get to do porn or w/e and then basically kaisers next idea od having combind transhumanism AI a stream of that net intergated in us like GITS then we become totally mobile as well. the world becomes the net and we become part of the data stream able to move and do whatver we want. and in GITS new crim like cyber hacking of brain functions and cyber crime of informations and such. and for somone like me who could give two shits about if hitler was 5'6 or had daffy duck tatooed on his butt. its really not important. basically if i became a vocaloid like hiyatsune miku i would be happy. so bring on total cyberisation. post human kaiser eddier world etc. ALL HEIL KAISER!!! |
SandraudigaSep 26, 2009 5:14 PM
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RavenTheDark said: I do understand where you're coming from but I never intended to debate this lol Even if I went into detail especially about Number 3 you probably still wouldn't understand what I'm getting at. I should note however that I didn't mean to imply slavery... Slavery would be something more forceful IMO, when the majority of the US unwittingly gave up their freedom. It's complicated <_< I just wanted to state some things I thought that's it, because nobody will believe me otherwise lol Bro, I read, understand and mostly agree with Noam Chomsky and Bertrand Russell. I think I can try to understand your reasoning too. You write clear enough. |
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Kaisereddie said: RavenTheDark said: I do understand where you're coming from but I never intended to debate this lol Even if I went into detail especially about Number 3 you probably still wouldn't understand what I'm getting at. I should note however that I didn't mean to imply slavery... Slavery would be something more forceful IMO, when the majority of the US unwittingly gave up their freedom. It's complicated <_< I just wanted to state some things I thought that's it, because nobody will believe me otherwise lol Bro, I read, understand and mostly agree with Noam Chomsky and Bertrand Russell. I think I can try to understand your reasoning too. You write clear enough. i think this could be a good starter right here. I think you'll find kaiser and his loyal followers more capable of understanding you esoteric ideas better than you think. but. dont expect me to get into deepness to often i rarley managed to pull my head out of my pokemans these days |
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RavenTheDark said: Baman said: Kaisereddie said: Well, I suppose putting Posthuman in front makes it sound more viable.Now, posthuman anarchy, that's more like it. Anarchy would never work without the Post part, that would just be degenerating back to the natural state, and after all, wanting to avoid the chaos and uncertainty of it was the very reason people created governments and societies in the first place, so jumping back to it would be pretty silly. I'm partial to leaving the governing to a superior sentient AI myself. RavenTheDark said: That's ridiculous. All functioning governments are more or less legitimate. If they weren't, the people would rebel and overthrow them. Legitimacy for a government is based on whatever laws they are bound by, which is defined by the people, and reliant on the acknowledgment of the masses.1) Governments are not Legitimate entities. They are fictional just like country's and citizens. Lol I did expect that response, because it's typical. However it's not accurate. What would make you think the "Citizens" would rebel even if they knew? because he is baman and baman noes best. |
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| Well, I wasn't particularly impressed by the manner in which my hometown handled its affairs (note: my hometown is not my current listed residence). I worked for the city for a number of years, and during some of those years I was paid less than minimum wage (I eventually earned enough raises to move beyond that point). And, if I ever logged in more than eighty hours during the two-week pay period I was asked to subtract the amount of time I worked overtime and put it on my next time card so the city could avoid paying me overtime. On the bright side, because they stiffed me and dozens of other kids our rightful wages (because, let's be honest, they couldn't pull that shit with most adults), they were able to reduce property taxes! |
| Whatever Zimbawe pretends to have. |
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Baman said: I'm partial to leaving the governing to a superior sentient AI myself. Screw that. People should watch I-Robot before suggesting that. |
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KyuuA4 said: Baman said: I'm partial to leaving the governing to a superior sentient AI myself. Screw that. People should watch I-Robot before suggesting that. thats basically a load of shit that film |
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