One Piece Episode 642 Discussion

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Jan 2014

3077

Teufel said:
judals --

I don't think it'd be practical to use Geppo or any flight powers to try and get to Raftel. If you're a Devil Fruit user flying around what happens if you get caught in a wind storm and then tossed down into the sea?

That brings us to another plothole where Mr.3 was seen floating Oda. While it was a post-work save from Oda, he still established that a wood would suffice, so just in case, bring a piece of wood! Haha

Anyone, Doflamingo hopping about the oceans would require impossibly large stamina, but Zoans and Logias can still pull it off.

Speaking of which, how do logia even drown? Or suffocate? They can lower their densities and their intangibly form doesn't seem to have lungs and such.

And of course you need a Log Pose, sometimes you need days

I don't recall people being unable to carry stuff while flying.

, weeks, months, or a year to store the magnetic signature so you have to land and stay put frequently.

And the journey's so dangerous only one crew has made it before, so for among other reasons you need a crew watching your back when you store the log pose. So you need to bring them in a boat, making flight powers fine for flying from Dressrosa to Punk Hazard or Green Bit fine but impractical for long journeys.

Not seeing how there's a plot hole. One Piece's world is lots of ocean and there are no airplanes, so ships are still the dominant mode of transportation. Some people can fly, but not many, and that does not mean they can just fly straight to Raftel and claim One Piece.

They can take break between islands, but my point is about sailing, about being on the sea and the method for which.

I agree. Journey is dangerous, and Raftel isn't simply just about sailing GL but I still don't see why people don't just try the opposite route. Or hope over Fishman Island or generally every part of the continent (why don't they do that on foot anyway, I forgot?)
They could also easily go over calm belts.
Flight exists and as ineffective as the hype of how dangerous the sea is in my opinion, the knowledge that it can be bypassed makes it more irritating.

Generally, technology and traverse in one piece are often very iffy and inconsistent.

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Apr 28, 2014 7:58 AM

#54

VulgarLife

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Apr 2012

889

Good episode with okay pacing. Law up Fujitora and Doffy, that cannot end well, depends on what Fujitora does, he's likely key to how this is gonna go down, The Block C battle royale is going to take a long time to finish I reckon, a lot of padding.

Apr 29, 2014 7:36 PM

#55

Noobly

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Feb 2013

78

Anyone, Doflamingo hopping about the oceans would require impossibly large stamina, but Zoans and Logias can still pull it off.

Speaking of which, how do logia even drown? Or suffocate? They can lower their densities and their intangibly form doesn't seem to have lungs and such.

If they are underwater. All their powers are negated. Making them unable to do anything.

, weeks, months, or a year to store the magnetic signature so you have to land and stay put frequently.

And the journey's so dangerous only one crew has made it before, so for among other reasons you need a crew watching your back when you store the log pose. So you need to bring them in a boat, making flight powers fine for flying from Dressrosa to Punk Hazard or Green Bit fine but impractical for long journeys.

Not seeing how there's a plot hole. One Piece's world is lots of ocean and there are no airplanes, so ships are still the dominant mode of transportation. Some people can fly, but not many, and that does not mean they can just fly straight to Raftel and claim One Piece.

They can take break between islands, but my point is about sailing, about being on the sea and the method for which.

I agree. Journey is dangerous, and Raftel isn't simply just about sailing GL but I still don't see why people don't just try the opposite route. Or hope over Fishman Island or generally every part of the continent (why don't they do that on foot anyway, I forgot?)
They could also easily go over calm belts.
Flight exists and as ineffective as the hype of how dangerous the sea is in my opinion, the knowledge that it can be bypassed makes it more irritating.

Generally, technology and traverse in one piece are often very iffy and inconsistent.

Also, they cannot go over the calm belts by flying. Because there is no wind for "flying logia types" and no clouds for doffy to connect his strings to. its not as simple as you'd think.

Apr 29, 2014 8:15 PM

#56

FullmetalRaikou

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Sep 2011

3235

Icedout15 said:
good episode but i hate how they keep switching between luffy and law just stick with one per episode so we can see a whole fight not just small parts of it

Unfortunately this whole arc has a lot of back and forth even in the manga. I love this arc but I hate how often Oda transitions between characters. I guess that's the problem with having so much going on in 1 arc.

Apr 30, 2014 11:59 PM

#57

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Jan 2014

3077

Noobly said:

If they are underwater. All their powers are negated. Making them unable to do anything.

Ummm, no they aren't. It just becomes hard to move.
Their powers' effect aren't negated. So if they are already working, I don't see how it can happen.

Also, they cannot go over the calm belts by flying. Because there is no wind for "flying logia types" and no clouds for doffy to connect his strings to. its not as simple as you'd think.

Floating and flying logias had shown to move on their own accord and are able to propel themselves just fine. Some even can make hot-air ballons out of themselves, and I forgot who, but maybe Smoker or Ace transformed their legs to make them like jets.

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May 1, 2014 12:01 AM

#58

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Fullmetal89 said:

Icedout15 said:
good episode but i hate how they keep switching between luffy and law just stick with one per episode so we can see a whole fight not just small parts of it

Unfortunately this whole arc has a lot of back and forth even in the manga. I love this arc but I hate how often Oda transitions between characters. I guess that's the problem with having so much going on in 1 arc.

The format works a lot better when you read a bunch of chapters all at once but it is indeed frustrating at times when reading it weekly.

May 1, 2014 1:00 PM

#59

FullmetalRaikou

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Sep 2011

3235

jpem said:

Fullmetal89 said:

Icedout15 said:
good episode but i hate how they keep switching between luffy and law just stick with one per episode so we can see a whole fight not just small parts of it

Unfortunately this whole arc has a lot of back and forth even in the manga. I love this arc but I hate how often Oda transitions between characters. I guess that's the problem with having so much going on in 1 arc.

The format works a lot better when you read a bunch of chapters all at once but it is indeed frustrating at times when reading it weekly.

Yeah exactly! That's what I was trying to get at.

May 1, 2014 2:22 PM

#60

Solos

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Jun 2011

4455

@judals: I have a feeling they might actually explain that when they get closer to Raftel. Perhaps it isn't as simple just flying over the world with DF powers, or maybe there is a limit to how far you can "fly", and if there is a large gap between Raftel and any other island, then they'd fall into the sea and possibly die. Or maybe it has to do with the geography of the New World itself, maybe there are things that prevent people from going past a certain distance (possibly weather related).
I hope they do answer this because you do make a good point, but I wouldn't call it a plot-hole just yet as it can be "closed".

May 1, 2014 3:42 PM

#61

immortal

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Jun 2013

101

Wonder what Law is going to do. He can't take them on all by himself. Doflamingo is a sly slick devil.

May 2, 2014 3:13 PM

#62

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Jan 2014

3077

SolBlade said:
@judals: I have a feeling they might actually explain that when they get closer to Raftel. Perhaps it isn't as simple just flying over the world with DF powers, or maybe there is a limit to how far you can "fly", and if there is a large gap between Raftel and any other island, then they'd fall into the sea and possibly die. Or maybe it has to do with the geography of the New World itself, maybe there are things that prevent people from going past a certain distance (possibly weather related).
I hope they do answer this because you do make a good point, but I wouldn't call it a plot-hole just yet as it can be "closed".

My problem is not raftel specifically, but the convenient lack of usage of the show of that elemet where they could have in the past and might continue to do so.

Similar was the complete absense of Haki, apparently that turned out to be such a major element everyone knows about.

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May 2, 2014 7:00 PM

#63

RedRoseFring

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Jan 2014

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judals said:

SolBlade said:
@judals: I have a feeling they might actually explain that when they get closer to Raftel. Perhaps it isn't as simple just flying over the world with DF powers, or maybe there is a limit to how far you can "fly", and if there is a large gap between Raftel and any other island, then they'd fall into the sea and possibly die. Or maybe it has to do with the geography of the New World itself, maybe there are things that prevent people from going past a certain distance (possibly weather related).
I hope they do answer this because you do make a good point, but I wouldn't call it a plot-hole just yet as it can be "closed".

My problem is not raftel specifically, but the convenient lack of usage of the show of that elemet where they could have in the past and might continue to do so.

Similar was the complete absense of Haki, apparently that turned out to be such a major element everyone knows about.

That is only if you completely disregard that people are separated by location as well. East Blue is the weakest sea, so it should be no surprise that people who could fly weren't seen there. We saw someone who could float as early as Loguetown (Dragon, even though the ability wasn't shown), and then Pell in Alabaster.

Naturally the top tier people will mostly be contained to the New World. It's just like asking why you don't see nuclear weapons in the villages of the Amazon.

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May 7, 2014 3:25 PM

#64

rimedragona

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195

My guess is it takes a lot of energy to "fly" or use your DF powers for extended periods of time. We see for Caesar that just carrying them over to Green Bit (which has a bridge, so it can't be that far from Dressrosa) made him quite tired. I'm guessing if there were no wind (calm belts) and they had to generate their own momentum, it takes even more energy. So, any extended distance between islands is going to be a problem to cross... also, possibly slower than sailing.

We don't know how fast Caesar was moving, but hot air balloons can be about as fast or faster than a ship depending on wind speeds. Doffy could possibly be faster than a ship, but only if there are clouds. We've never seen Smoker go long distances, just around a city or a complex, I think. Possibly Marco can go long distances... but it's not only a power thing, his personality would lead him to want to stay with his crew.

I'm betting the use of ships is just a matter of cost effectiveness. If you need your crew with you when you get there, getting there faster than them doesn't do you any good. And if one of many unexpected things happens (you run into a ship that attacks you, etc) you probably don't want to have to risk getting shot out of the sky above the sea. So spending the extra time on the ship is a better risk/reward than trying to fly solo over the sea, and not as lonely. *shrug* It's all about the romance and adventure of sailing, remember, not just the end point.

ANYWAY.

Luffy kind of made me laugh in a "are you stupid?" kind of way today, with all those "gomu-gomu no"s. Did they do that in the manga? I don't remember it.

May 9, 2014 1:30 PM

#65

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Jan 2014

3077

rimedragona said:
My guess is it takes a lot of energy to "fly" or use your DF powers for extended periods of time. We see for Caesar that just carrying them over to Green Bit (which has a bridge, so it can't be that far from Dressrosa) made him quite tired. I'm guessing if there were no wind (calm belts) and they had to generate their own momentum, it takes even more energy. So, any extended distance between islands is going to be a problem to cross... also, possibly slower than sailing.

We don't know how fast Caesar was moving, but hot air balloons can be about as fast or faster than a ship depending on wind speeds. Doffy could possibly be faster than a ship, but only if there are clouds. We've never seen Smoker go long distances, just around a city or a complex, I think. Possibly Marco can go long distances... but it's not only a power thing, his personality would lead him to want to stay with his crew.

I'm betting the use of ships is just a matter of cost effectiveness. If you need your crew with you when you get there, getting there faster than them doesn't do you any good. And if one of many unexpected things happens (you run into a ship that attacks you, etc) you probably don't want to have to risk getting shot out of the sky above the sea. So spending the extra time on the ship is a better risk/reward than trying to fly solo over the sea, and not as lonely. *shrug* It's all about the romance and adventure of sailing, remember, not just the end point.

ANYWAY.

Luffy kind of made me laugh in a "are you stupid?" kind of way today, with all those "gomu-gomu no"s. Did they do that in the manga? I don't remember it.

Not asking to marathon the seas, but many important exploits can be bypassed still. Stamina is quite irrelevant since there are many logias who can float and keep form as well as show extreme displays of propelling force. Caesar only served to confirm that it can be done, and hence the inconsistency.

Speaking of which I still don't understand how people (non WG) can exit the GL? Kuma's slapping services? Or why cant they just walk across the redline and jump into NW? Power levels aside.

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May 9, 2014 8:11 PM

#66

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judals said:

rimedragona said:
My guess is it takes a lot of energy to "fly" or use your DF powers for extended periods of time. We see for Caesar that just carrying them over to Green Bit (which has a bridge, so it can't be that far from Dressrosa) made him quite tired. I'm guessing if there were no wind (calm belts) and they had to generate their own momentum, it takes even more energy. So, any extended distance between islands is going to be a problem to cross... also, possibly slower than sailing.

We don't know how fast Caesar was moving, but hot air balloons can be about as fast or faster than a ship depending on wind speeds. Doffy could possibly be faster than a ship, but only if there are clouds. We've never seen Smoker go long distances, just around a city or a complex, I think. Possibly Marco can go long distances... but it's not only a power thing, his personality would lead him to want to stay with his crew.

I'm betting the use of ships is just a matter of cost effectiveness. If you need your crew with you when you get there, getting there faster than them doesn't do you any good. And if one of many unexpected things happens (you run into a ship that attacks you, etc) you probably don't want to have to risk getting shot out of the sky above the sea. So spending the extra time on the ship is a better risk/reward than trying to fly solo over the sea, and not as lonely. *shrug* It's all about the romance and adventure of sailing, remember, not just the end point.

ANYWAY.

Luffy kind of made me laugh in a "are you stupid?" kind of way today, with all those "gomu-gomu no"s. Did they do that in the manga? I don't remember it.

Not asking to marathon the seas, but many important exploits can be bypassed still. Stamina is quite irrelevant since there are many logias who can float and keep form as well as show extreme displays of propelling force. Caesar only served to confirm that it can be done, and hence the inconsistency.

Speaking of which I still don't understand how people (non WG) can exit the GL? Kuma's slapping services? Or why cant they just walk across the redline and jump into NW? Power levels aside.

This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst, Submarines, lining the bottom of a ship with Seastone, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

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May 9, 2014 8:21 PM

#67

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Minagatachi said:
This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst and Submarines, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

1)It may turn out that Doflamingo and other character flying has nothing to do with their ability but of their knowledge of the new world.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13914/one-piece_ch595_by_mangarule/14
2)An issue with being towed, submarines, etc is the Sea Kings in the calm belt. And while it can be argued that at this level Sea Kings are probably no issue we don't really know that. They easily stopped Noah when Luffy Couldn't do much to it after all.
3)How far can Coup De Burst even go? It's possible I guess. Sunny is rather ridiculous.
4)I have to imagine there is a lot more to reaching Raftel than just getting to the end of the NW or flying there. Likely something that they will learn from the poneglyphs.

May 9, 2014 9:03 PM

#68

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Jul 2013

1563

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:
This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst and Submarines, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

1)It may turn out that Doflamingo and other character flying has nothing to do with their ability but of their knowledge of the new world.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13914/one-piece_ch595_by_mangarule/14
2)An issue with being towed, submarines, etc is the Sea Kings in the calm belt. And while it can be argued that at this level Sea Kings are probably no issue we don't really know that. They easily stopped Noah when Luffy Couldn't do much to it after all.
3)How far can Coup De Burst even go? It's possible I guess. Sunny is rather ridiculous.
4)I have to imagine there is a lot more to reaching Raftel than just getting to the end of the NW or flying there. Likely something that they will learn from the poneglyphs.

In regards to point 2, Amazon Lilly is in the middle of the Calm Belt, and the Kuja pirates have no problem whatsoever with Sea Kings.

As for 3, if it helps three barrels = 1 kilometer for a Coup de Burst. The Calm Belt is only about 4 times as wide as Amazon Lilly. I don't know how big Amazon Lilly is so I can only pretty much guess, but I think if they had enough Cola it would be possible.

MinagatachiMay 9, 2014 9:08 PM

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May 9, 2014 9:10 PM

#69

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Minagatachi said:

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:
This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst and Submarines, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

1)It may turn out that Doflamingo and other character flying has nothing to do with their ability but of their knowledge of the new world.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13914/one-piece_ch595_by_mangarule/14
2)An issue with being towed, submarines, etc is the Sea Kings in the calm belt. And while it can be argued that at this level Sea Kings are probably no issue we don't really know that. They easily stopped Noah when Luffy Couldn't do much to it after all.
3)How far can Coup De Burst even go? It's possible I guess. Sunny is rather ridiculous.
4)I have to imagine there is a lot more to reaching Raftel than just getting to the end of the NW or flying there. Likely something that they will learn from the poneglyphs.

In regards to point 2, Amazon Lilly is in the middle of the Calm Belt, and the Kuja pirates have no problem whatsoever with Sea Kings.

As for 3, if it helps three barrels = 1 kilometer for a Coup de Burst. The Calm Belt is only about 4 times as wide as Amazon Lilly. I don't know how big Amazon Lilly is so I can only pretty much guess, but I think if they had enough Cola it would be possible.

Fair enough. Looked it up but seems you are right, although it is something unique to the Kuja pirates.

Would probably be a lot of Cola but it does sound possible. I'm not sure we'll ever find out though, after the revelation with Shirahoshi. I imagine if they ever cross the calm belt in the story it will be on the back of her sea kings.

May 9, 2014 9:11 PM

#70

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Jul 2013

1563

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:
This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst and Submarines, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

1)It may turn out that Doflamingo and other character flying has nothing to do with their ability but of their knowledge of the new world.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13914/one-piece_ch595_by_mangarule/14
2)An issue with being towed, submarines, etc is the Sea Kings in the calm belt. And while it can be argued that at this level Sea Kings are probably no issue we don't really know that. They easily stopped Noah when Luffy Couldn't do much to it after all.
3)How far can Coup De Burst even go? It's possible I guess. Sunny is rather ridiculous.
4)I have to imagine there is a lot more to reaching Raftel than just getting to the end of the NW or flying there. Likely something that they will learn from the poneglyphs.

In regards to point 2, Amazon Lilly is in the middle of the Calm Belt, and the Kuja pirates have no problem whatsoever with Sea Kings.

As for 3, if it helps three barrels = 1 kilometer for a Coup de Burst. The Calm Belt is only about 4 times as wide as Amazon Lilly. I don't know how big Amazon Lilly is so I can only pretty much guess, but I think if they had enough Cola it would be possible.

Fair enough. Looked it up but seems you are right, although it is something unique to the Kuja pirates.

Would probably be a lot of Cola but it does sound possible. I'm not sure we'll ever find out though, after the revelation with Shirahoshi. I imagine if they ever cross the calm belt in the story it will be on the back of her sea kings.

Wow I completely forgot about Shirahoshi being able to control Sea Kings, that would be epic.

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May 9, 2014 9:13 PM

#71

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Minagatachi said:

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:
This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst and Submarines, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

1)It may turn out that Doflamingo and other character flying has nothing to do with their ability but of their knowledge of the new world.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13914/one-piece_ch595_by_mangarule/14
2)An issue with being towed, submarines, etc is the Sea Kings in the calm belt. And while it can be argued that at this level Sea Kings are probably no issue we don't really know that. They easily stopped Noah when Luffy Couldn't do much to it after all.
3)How far can Coup De Burst even go? It's possible I guess. Sunny is rather ridiculous.
4)I have to imagine there is a lot more to reaching Raftel than just getting to the end of the NW or flying there. Likely something that they will learn from the poneglyphs.

In regards to point 2, Amazon Lilly is in the middle of the Calm Belt, and the Kuja pirates have no problem whatsoever with Sea Kings.

As for 3, if it helps three barrels = 1 kilometer for a Coup de Burst. The Calm Belt is only about 4 times as wide as Amazon Lilly. I don't know how big Amazon Lilly is so I can only pretty much guess, but I think if they had enough Cola it would be possible.

Fair enough. Looked it up but seems you are right, although it is something unique to the Kuja pirates.

Would probably be a lot of Cola but it does sound possible. I'm not sure we'll ever find out though, after the revelation with Shirahoshi. I imagine if they ever cross the calm belt in the story it will be on the back of her sea kings.

Wow I completely forgot about Shirahoshi being able to control Sea Kings, that would be epic.

Agreed.

May 12, 2014 3:43 PM

#72

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Jan 2014

3077

Minagatachi said:
This has always stumped me. Raftel is just at the end of the New World, and the New World is right next to West Blue and South Blue. Only reason they can't go straight from those two oceans is because of the Calm Belt being in the way, which they can't proceed through because of there being no winds to be used for sailing. But now there has been many alternatives to sailing (e.g. the Kuja Pirates being towed by the massive Sea Serpents, Dofla and many other characters being able to fly, Coup De Burst, Submarines, lining the bottom of a ship with Seastone, etc) that can make it possible to go straight through the Calm Belt. I don't get why they don't just take a short cut straight to Raftel from the start.

Not just raftel... fishman island can be skipped, grandline can be done backward, the methods you mentioned about calm belt too.

Also, we spent like... 10 years worth of story just to get to Archipelago at the end of the GL... and now, they just breezed through it? Like, we know how Sanji got there, but what about the others? Getting to the new world can be as simple as hitch-hiking?
There's still the issue of people exiting the grandline... people like Norland and I think Krieg (did he actually get in or was about to? I forgot)
And then there's Kuma's DF, which can be used too.

The more I think about the redline and everything related to end/start points of certain places the more I find some of these issues.

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May 12, 2014 9:22 PM

#73

Seabury

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May 2010

1424

From what it sounds like, the manga readers don't see the same plot-holes that the anime watchers do. Someone a few pages back described Don Flamingo's "flying" ability in more detail inside a spoiler tag, which really answered the question about why he can't just go straight to Raftel. I'm wondering if these plot holes really are just due to the anime leaving out certain details?

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May 12, 2014 9:28 PM

#74

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Jul 2013

1563

Seabury said:
From what it sounds like, the manga readers don't see the same plot-holes that the anime watchers do. Someone a few pages back described Don Flamingo's "flying" ability in more detail inside a spoiler tag, which really answered the question about why he can't just go straight to Raftel. I'm wondering if these plot holes really are just due to the anime leaving out certain details?

The anime hasn't reached the point where Doflamingo's ability is explained, that happens later on. As much problems as I have with the anime adaption, it is still pretty good at staying true to the manga.

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May 12, 2014 9:47 PM

#75

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Why do people think Raftel is in the sky? I don't recall them ever saying so and there is nothing in the wiki suggesting that. I got the impression that no one has a clue how to find the island yet.

Starting in the New World may actually be possible if you're lucky enough to have a power that allows you to fly though, that's fair. I don't think it's anywhere near as common as Judals seems to think and I'm not even sold that Doflamingo can fly 100% by his own ability. That being said since no one knows how to reach Raftel it would likely be pointless and you'd probably just get your ass kicked pretty quick anyways.

removed-userMay 12, 2014 10:09 PM

May 12, 2014 10:31 PM

#76

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jpem said:
Why do people think Raftel is in the sky? I don't recall them ever saying so and there is nothing in the wiki suggesting that. I got the impression that no one has a clue how to find the island yet.

Starting in the New World may actually be possible if you're lucky enough to have a power that allows you to fly though, that's fair. I don't think it's anywhere near as common as Judals seems to think and I'm not even sold that Doflamingo can fly 100% by his own ability. That being said since no one knows how to reach Raftel it would likely be pointless and you'd probably just get your ass kicked pretty quick anyways.

No one said Raftel is in the sky.

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May 12, 2014 10:33 PM

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Minagatachi said:

jpem said:
Why do people think Raftel is in the sky? I don't recall them ever saying so and there is nothing in the wiki suggesting that. I got the impression that no one has a clue how to find the island yet.

Starting in the New World may actually be possible if you're lucky enough to have a power that allows you to fly though, that's fair. I don't think it's anywhere near as common as Judals seems to think and I'm not even sold that Doflamingo can fly 100% by his own ability. That being said since no one knows how to reach Raftel it would likely be pointless and you'd probably just get your ass kicked pretty quick anyways.

No one said Raftel is in the sky.

Then i'm confused, what relevance would flying have? If one could simply fly straight there, they could simply sail straight there as well right?

Edit:I guess you guys were still talking about flying over the calm belt? But that ties in with not knowing where it is anyways.

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May 12, 2014 10:36 PM

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jpem said:

Minagatachi said:

jpem said:
Why do people think Raftel is in the sky? I don't recall them ever saying so and there is nothing in the wiki suggesting that. I got the impression that no one has a clue how to find the island yet.

Starting in the New World may actually be possible if you're lucky enough to have a power that allows you to fly though, that's fair. I don't think it's anywhere near as common as Judals seems to think and I'm not even sold that Doflamingo can fly 100% by his own ability. That being said since no one knows how to reach Raftel it would likely be pointless and you'd probably just get your ass kicked pretty quick anyways.

No one said Raftel is in the sky.

Then i'm confused, what relevance would flying have? If one could simply fly straight there, they could simply sail straight there as well right?

Look up the One Piece map. The reason that was given to us was that people can't travel straight to the New World/Grand Line from East/South/West/North Blue was because the Calm Belt was in the way, and the problem that the Calm Belt created was that it had no breezes or currents for sailing, and that it was filled with Sea Kings. Then we are shown characters who could simply fly over the Calm Belt, a character that can just swim through it (Rayleigh), and many other ways of getting through it (Ships that have been coated with Seastone at the bottom). So why are characters that can get through the Calm Belt having such a huge problem getting to Raftel when they can go straight to the end of the New World (where Raftel supposedly is) through the Calm Belt? Judals is bringing up the fact that Doflamingo could simply fly over the Calm Belt or the Red Line to get to Raftel relatively quickly.

I have to go to work now, I'll check any replies when I get back.

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May 12, 2014 10:38 PM

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Minagatachi said:
So why are characters that can get through the Calm Belt having such a huge problem getting to Raftel when they can go straight to the end of the New World (where Raftel supposedly is) through the Calm Belt?

This all relies on the assumption that it is just at the end of the new world. Considering Roger offered to tell Whitebeard how to get there this is highly unlikely. There is obviously some bigger reason no one has found it other having to fight your way to the end of the NW.

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May 12, 2014 10:42 PM

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jpem said:

Minagatachi said:
So why are characters that can get through the Calm Belt having such a huge problem getting to Raftel when they can go straight to the end of the New World (where Raftel supposedly is) through the Calm Belt?

This all relies on the assumption that it is just at the end of the new world. Considering Roger offered to tell Whitebeard how to get there this is highly unlikely. There is obviously some bigger reason other having to fight your way to the end of the NW.

Which it is, according to the wiki. Well I'm off, I'll be back in a few hours.

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May 12, 2014 10:44 PM

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Minagatachi said:

jpem said:

Minagatachi said:
So why are characters that can get through the Calm Belt having such a huge problem getting to Raftel when they can go straight to the end of the New World (where Raftel supposedly is) through the Calm Belt?

This all relies on the assumption that it is just at the end of the new world. Considering Roger offered to tell Whitebeard how to get there this is highly unlikely. There is obviously some bigger reason other having to fight your way to the end of the NW.

Which it is, according to the wiki. Well I'm off, I'll be back in a few hours.

Also from the wiki "This also indicates that getting to the island is not as simple as sailing to the end of the Grand Line"

It may be at the end of the NW but that doesn't mean all it takes is sailing the full circle or taking a short cut to the end. If this wasn't the case someone would have done it already regardless of whether they could fly. That is what I meant by it not just being at the end of the grand line. There's no it's that simple but if it turns out that it is then yeah Oda fucked up massively.

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May 12, 2014 11:04 PM

#82

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The narrator himself stated it to be at the end of the world, so anything else would be a retcon/inconsistency in itself.
Besides, what would a 'complication' be? That it's in another dimension? Or up in space and its projection happens to be on the end of GL?

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May 12, 2014 11:18 PM

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judals said:
The narrator himself stated it to be at the end of the world, so anything else would be a retcon/inconsistency in itself.
Besides, what would a 'complication' be? That it's in another dimension? Or up in space and its projection happens to be on the end of GL?

Or it could just have something to do with the inconsistent weather of the grand line that make log poses required for sailing to normal islands, who knows. Regardless of what it is Roger had no reason to say what he did to Whitebeard if it is literally just sail straight on as normal. Acting like this isn't the case is just trying to find plot holes for the sake of it tbh.

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May 12, 2014 11:25 PM

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But it is still at the end of GL.

There's several ways to conquer said inconsistent seas as discussed before so that's not really an issue

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May 12, 2014 11:31 PM

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judals said:
But it is still at the end of GL.

There's several ways to conquer said inconsistent seas as discussed before so that's not really an issue

Last time I checked you still need a log pose. I'm not talking about your belief that everyone can fly. Also just because you or I don't know exactly how he'll do it doesn't mean it won't happen. Trying to say a series has a plot hole over an event a decade before the event actually happens is really grasping at straws.

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May 12, 2014 11:38 PM

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If you want to talk about potential plot holes rather than trying to act like it already is one then that is different. For example if Crocodile is suddenly a master of Haki in the NW I'll be one of the first to call bullshit but I don't think Haki is quite at that level yet. It's walking a very thin line however.

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May 12, 2014 11:42 PM

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jpem said:

judals said:
But it is still at the end of GL.

There's several ways to conquer said inconsistent seas as discussed before so that's not really an issue

Last time I checked you still need a log pose. I'm not talking about your belief that everyone can fly.

Which can be created by man. It points to the next location(s). Complexities of NW would be remedied by the modified version.
Worst case scenario, it has no field, and Roger reached it, meaning Log Poses may be somewhat uselsss.

True that this plot hole can be explained, but until it is, I still consider it to be one.
Decades or not, it contradicts with the universe's consistency.

Yeah, I know the Croc plothole but that's not relevant here.

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May 12, 2014 11:46 PM

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judals said:

Worst case scenario, it has no field, and Roger reached it, meaning Log Poses may be somewhat uselsss.

Which he likely was able to do because of something unique to him (and Luffy). Could be related to the "voice of all things", poneglyphs, the will of D, etc. Who knows maybe his navigator was just that good and Nami will have to step up.

judals said:
True that this plot hole can be explained, but until it is, I still consider it to be one.
Decades or not, it contradicts with the universe's consistency.

It doesn't contradict anything yet as it hasn't happened. It's all just speculation, for both of us. We literally know nothing other than a few hints here and there.

judals said:
Yeah, I know the Croc plothole but that's not relevant here.

I was just making a point that this is indeed a potential plot hole but not one yet. That's all.

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May 13, 2014 12:05 AM

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Will of D? Eh so it's all laid out to them by destiny or prophecy or something? That would be lame.

Speculation based on said illogical choices. A few pages back I wrote about the actual existence of many methods that can be used better. Minagachi also posted few.

Every plothole is 'potential' and can be fixed but as it stands, it is one.

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May 13, 2014 5:41 AM

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judals said:
Will of D? Eh so it's all laid out to them by destiny or prophecy or something? That would be lame.

Speculation based on said illogical choices. A few pages back I wrote about the actual existence of many methods that can be used better. Minagachi also posted few.

Every plothole is 'potential' and can be fixed but as it stands, it is one.

Well for now I suppose I'll just think of it as innocent until proven guilty. It's kind of like how everyone got angry about at Tobi's true identity because it supposedly had heaps of plotholes, before they even gave Kishi a chance to give a decent explanation. I believe there's not enough information yet, so I'll just go with it for now. But then again if I go by that logic then a plothole only exists in series that have concluded, who knows.

MinagatachiMay 13, 2014 5:50 AM

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May 14, 2014 1:41 PM

#91