| Kinda looking forward to this. I was somewhat surprised this got an anime adaptation though.. |
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| I know that i should stop being bitter over things, but man, why do we always get LN adaptations with awesome premise but the standard LN conventions? The manga got me bored almost instantly because of that. A story about a group of witch hunters that, rather than focusing on the intricacies and technicalities of the world of witch-hunting, instead smeared over by endless panty-shots, titty-jiggling, gross running gags, and (seemingly) harem in building. It totally ruins everything despite the serious and rather dark tone that fits the premise. Sucks. |
| Well, let's see how this is goiing to be. The story is kinda meh for me though |
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| The picture of the LN cover where the chick practically has her vagina sticking out isn't really a good sign. That ecchi tag ¬_¬ Amiluhur said: Annddd I'll trust your judgement.I know that i should stop being bitter over things, but man, why do we always get LN adaptations with awesome premise but the standard LN conventions? The manga got me bored almost instantly because of that. A story about a group of witch hunters that, rather than focusing on the intricacies and technicalities of the world of witch-hunting, instead smeared over by endless panty-shots, titty-jiggling, gross running gags, and (seemingly) harem in building. It totally ruins everything despite the serious and rather dark tone that fits the premise. Sucks. I'll pass on this. |
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| No, don't take my judgement completely. Just go and read the manga. Maybe you'll end up having different take on it than mine |
| Long list light novel getting anime adaptation = will watch. I don't really know anything much about this one, though. I wonder if I should try to find out more or if I should just leave it to the anime to talk for itself... |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Amiluhur said: I know that i should stop being bitter over things, but man, why do we always get LN adaptations with awesome premise but the standard LN conventions? The manga got me bored almost instantly because of that. A story about a group of witch hunters that, rather than focusing on the intricacies and technicalities of the world of witch-hunting, instead smeared over by endless panty-shots, titty-jiggling, gross running gags, and (seemingly) harem in building. It totally ruins everything despite the serious and rather dark tone that fits the premise. Sucks. This. Too lazy to even write a post full of disgust right now... |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| Mite b kool |
[center] |
Amiluhur said: I know that i should stop being bitter over things, but man, why do we always get LN adaptations with awesome premise but the standard LN conventions? The manga got me bored almost instantly because of that. A story about a group of witch hunters that, rather than focusing on the intricacies and technicalities of the world of witch-hunting, instead smeared over by endless panty-shots, titty-jiggling, gross running gags, and (seemingly) harem in building. It totally ruins everything despite the serious and rather dark tone that fits the premise. Sucks. Maybe because thats what the LN audience wants? LNs are otaku writing novels for otaku. |
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RyanSaotome said: Maybe because thats what the LN audience wants? LNs are otaku writing novels for otaku. And what if in the longterm otakus get less likely to buy the same stuff over and over again? Non-otaku anime already have it hard enough if they aren't a Saturday Morning type of show. Think of the industry a bit. Let me quote someone from another forum: Luxor said: Sometimes I don't understand why the anime industry doesn't choose to do something about it, like Hollywood did after the Great Depression. Remember that they were pretty niche and stuff at the time too, but they improved their image with self-enforced guidelines like the Motion Picture Production Code that specifically limited the kinds of otaku stuff we see in anime right now. But whatever makes them money, I guess. I am against censorship, but I agree the industry should set higher standards for itself. |
NidhoeggrApr 15, 2014 12:08 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
And what if in the longterm otakus get less lieley to buy the same stuff over and over again? Non-otaku anime already have it hard enough if they aren't a Saturday Morning type of show. Think of the industry a bit. If in the long term otaku all start buying series focusing on the daily lives of bedridden 90 year olds in old people's homes, then the industry will start making that instead. There's nothing to worry about in that respect. Although you would probably complain about that as well. Because according to you anything you personally don't like shouldn't be made. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| Yay! Reading the manga ver and like it :D It may not be top quality, but enjoyable enough. |
RabbiacApr 15, 2014 12:30 AM
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Nidhoeggr said: RyanSaotome said: Maybe because thats what the LN audience wants? LNs are otaku writing novels for otaku. And what if in the longterm otakus get less likely to buy the same stuff over and over again? Non-otaku anime already have it hard enough if they aren't a Saturday Morning type of show. Think of the industry a bit. Thinking of the industry would be to make things that actually sell and sustain the industry instead of making stuff people who buy LNs don't care about. What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that they're not trying to market these things to you, someone who isn't a potential customer. They're marketing it to the people who DO buy these light novels, manga, anime etc. They could care less what some foreigner whos never bought one of their products thinks. Nidhoeggr said: Let me quote someone from another forum: Luxor said: Sometimes I don't understand why the anime industry doesn't choose to do something about it, like Hollywood did after the Great Depression. Remember that they were pretty niche and stuff at the time too, but they improved their image with self-enforced guidelines like the Motion Picture Production Code that specifically limited the kinds of otaku stuff we see in anime right now. But whatever makes them money, I guess. I am against censorship, but I agree the industry should set higher standards for itself. Censoring creativity is the absolute WORST thing you can do to any medium. If the government is telling people what they can or can't write stories about, then they are doing nothing but forcing their own ideas on what type of entertainment people may enjoy. That goes against freedom of speech. |
RyanSaotomeApr 15, 2014 12:49 AM
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| It's not about appealing to some foreigner who never buys their products (which I do, btw. I have several shelves full of manga). it is about pandering to a niche so small and populated by people with such strange fetishes that even 90% of the potential Japanese market is turned off. Seriously? If you make DVD/BD releases for imouto incest LN at hyper-inflationated prizes just because you want to squeeze some virgin otaku out of their money you don't need to wonder why many normal people view anime as both expensive and really weird and thus are more unlikely to get into the medium. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
Nidhoeggr said: It's not about appealing to some foreigner who never buys their products (which I do, btw. I have several shelves full of manga). it is about pandering to a niche so small and populated by people with such strange fetishes that even 90% of the potential Japanese market is turned off. Seriously? If you make DVD/BD releases for imouto incest LN at hyper-inflationated prizes just because you want to squeeze some virgin otaku out of their money you don't need to wonder why many normal people view anime as both expensive and really weird and thus are more unlikely to get into the medium. |
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Nidhoeggr said: It's not about appealing to some foreigner who never buys their products (which I do, btw. I have several shelves full of manga). it is about pandering to a niche so small and populated by people with such strange fetishes that even 90% of the potential Japanese market is turned off. Seriously? If you make DVD/BD releases for imouto incest LN at hyper-inflationated prizes just because you want to squeeze some virgin otaku out of their money you don't need to wonder why many normal people view anime as both expensive and really weird and thus are more unlikely to get into the medium. Anime IS a niche medium that has no real reason to expand outwards. Why should "Normal" people get into a medium aimed at nerds in the first place? Not everything has to become all watered down and mainstream friendly. The industry is doing better than it ever has since 2006. Theres no reason to mess with success. |
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RyanSaotome said: Nidhoeggr said: Let me quote someone from another forum: Luxor said: Sometimes I don't understand why the anime industry doesn't choose to do something about it, like Hollywood did after the Great Depression. Remember that they were pretty niche and stuff at the time too, but they improved their image with self-enforced guidelines like the Motion Picture Production Code that specifically limited the kinds of otaku stuff we see in anime right now. But whatever makes them money, I guess. I am against censorship, but I agree the industry should set higher standards for itself. Censoring creativity is the absolute WORST thing you can do to any medium. If the government is telling people what they can or can't write stories about, then they are doing nothing but forcing their own ideas on what type of entertainment people may enjoy. That goes against freedom of speech. This is not about censorship, this is about a voluntary code adapted by the industry because THEY were concerned about THEIR image. RyanSaotome said: Anime IS a niche medium that has no real reason to expand outwards. Why should "Normal" people get into a medium aimed at nerds in the first place? Not everything has to become all watered down and mainstream friendly. The industry is doing better than it ever has since 2006. Theres no reason to mess with success. So because it is niche it can't have quality and everybody should participate in a downward spiral of even more specific fetish series? Look at Western fantasy and SciFi, too much inbreeding is not healthy... then again, people who like imouto incest LN probably ignore this little fact abut the entire deal :D |
NidhoeggrApr 15, 2014 1:01 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| Action/Military with ecchi looks good to me |
Nidhoeggr said: So because it is niche it can't have quality and everybody should participate in a downward spiral of even more specific fetish series? Look at Western fantasy and SciFi, too much inbreeding is not healthy... then again, people who like imouto incest LN probably ignore this little fact abut the entire deal :D Its your opinion that its not "Quality". Personally I couldn't care less about most of the artsy/mature kinda series that the people who hate on otaku stuff like. I find the otaku stuff is of better quality and far more enjoyable to watch. Crazy that people have different opinions huh? |
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RyanSaotome said: Crazy that people have different opinions huh? Indeed... And that people seem to forget or not accept that is even more mind-boggling. |
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RyanSaotome said: Nidhoeggr said: So because it is niche it can't have quality and everybody should participate in a downward spiral of even more specific fetish series? Look at Western fantasy and SciFi, too much inbreeding is not healthy... then again, people who like imouto incest LN probably ignore this little fact abut the entire deal :D Its your opinion that its not "Quality". Personally I couldn't care less about most of the artsy/mature kinda series that the people who hate on otaku stuff like. I find the otaku stuff is of better quality and far more enjoyable to watch. Crazy that people have different opinions huh? You can enjoy it all the way you want. But enjoyment =/= quality. Is that so hard to understand? I like Daimidaler but it is by no means a good show just because I like it. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) |
|
Nidhoeggr said: RyanSaotome said: Nidhoeggr said: So because it is niche it can't have quality and everybody should participate in a downward spiral of even more specific fetish series? Look at Western fantasy and SciFi, too much inbreeding is not healthy... then again, people who like imouto incest LN probably ignore this little fact abut the entire deal :D Its your opinion that its not "Quality". Personally I couldn't care less about most of the artsy/mature kinda series that the people who hate on otaku stuff like. I find the otaku stuff is of better quality and far more enjoyable to watch. Crazy that people have different opinions huh? You can enjoy it all the way you want. But enjoyment =/= quality. Is that so hard to understand? I like Daimidaler but it is by no means a good show just because I like it. You can't factually say something is more quality than another. It comes down to opinion. http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html For example, you can say "Monster is thriller animated by Madhouse". That is a fact. You can prove it and nobody can disagree with it. But if you say "Monster is a high quality anime", that is an opinion. You can't prove it, and others may disagree. |
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| I can prove it by analyzing the structure, writing style, framing, characterization, etc. using contemporary methods accepted in literary criticism. We can debate about this, but the weight of such an opinion backed by these facts and theories weights far more in a critical discourse than a simple "I enjoy it and this is my opinion!!11". And sadly, I never saw any analysis about these LN that were very favourable under these terms... But who knows, maybe your analysis of Ore no Imouto shows how it is a work of fine literature that can be compared to Nabokov's Lolita :D |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
Nidhoeggr said: I can prove it by analyzing the structure, writing style, framing, characterization, etc. using contemporary methods accepting in literary criticism. We can debate about this, but the weight of such an opinion backed by these facts weights far more in a critical discourse than a simple "I enjoy it and this is my opinion!!11". And sadly, I never saw any analysis about these LN that were very favourable under these terms... You really don't need anything more than "I enjoy it", since thats why people watch entertainment in the first place. It doesn't matter if other people like something, which is what "High quality" shows really come down to. Its an opinion of what the right way to write a story is that is shared by a group of people. But other people may prefer a different way of story telling or writing style. That doesn't make them wrong or that they prefer "lesser quality" shows. It means they have a different opinion on what they find enjoyable out of a show then you do. |
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Liph said: The two have never been mutually exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought that is becoming prevalent. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one perceives it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) |
metamorphiusApr 15, 2014 1:29 AM
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| I've never before seen a manga where google pictures shows that many different panty shots ... :3 well as long as it's funny or has nice action :) |
| Domo domo! Kami desu :D |
metamorphius said: Liph said: The two have never been mutualy exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one percieves it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) Of course they are not exclusive, but to me quality is a reason why I enjoy series. I like seeing well-thought out plots and being able to witness a masterfully crafted framework. This is part of the joy I get from reading a lot of classics as well. This act of discovering, of learning is far more satisfiying than the blind hedonism people like RyanSaotome seem to thrive for in their quest for plain, simple, yet always repeating entertainment. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
metamorphius said: Liph said: The two have never been mutually exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought that is becoming prevalent. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one perceives it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) Not really, my favorite anime is Strike Witches and I enjoyed watching it a lot, yet I can meantion a bunch of other anime I think have much better quality. |
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Liph said: Not really, my favorite anime is Strike Witches and I enjoyed watching it a lot, yet I can meantion a bunch of other anime I think have much better quality. See, that's absolutely fine. But if someone says "I enjoy it, so you can't say it is of bad quality because I enjoy it" then we have a problem. Daimidaler, Symphogear, etc. are all anime I greatly enjoyed and who will probably never get a score higher than 4/10 from me. Likewise I hated Shingeki, but gave it a 6 or 7 out of 10 because I recognize it is well-crafted. It's just that the sole justification of anything because of pure enjoyment is pretty narrowminded imho and sadly, a lot of people make discussions unbearable because of this attitude. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
metamorphius said: Liph said: The two have never been mutually exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought that is becoming prevalent. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one perceives it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) Pretty much. For example, I find The Idolm@ster to be a very high quality anime. The animation is superb, the character designs are great, the music and dance scenes are incredibly well done. I've watched it a few times and I still can't get enough of it. But the elitists who think all the otaku stuff is "junk" would say its not quality since it doesn't follow their strict definitions of what makes a good tv show. |
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metamorphius said: Liph said: The two have never been mutually exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought that is becoming prevalent. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one perceives it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) it is likely but there are some exceptions ;) arakawa under the bridge was high quality but the protagonist sucked as hell so I didn't really enjoy it. I wouldn't be as crazy as to call date a live a series with high quality but I really enjoyed it. There are so many low quality Ecchi series but most of them are for some reason extremely enjoyable :) so basically low quality can be somehow high quality and high quality can be low quality - just everything in their own way! |
| Domo domo! Kami desu :D |
Nidhoeggr said: Liph said: Not really, my favorite anime is Strike Witches and I enjoyed watching it a lot, yet I can meantion a bunch of other anime I think have much better quality. See, that's absolutely fine. But if someone says "I enjoy it, so you can't say it is of bad quality because I enjoy it" then we have a problem. No the problem appear when people start bitching about what other people like. Just don't watch it then so what is the problem? |
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| So basically we shouldn't discuss because we hurt some poor people's feelings? Look at the Mahouka forums. Every single criticism is mowed down by a few fans after the first episode aired because I ENJOY IT AND YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!!1111 You are free to like anything, but people are also free to dislike anything. And yes, as long as that is related to the topic we can discuss and "bitch" all we want. Btw, this has gotten WAY off-topic. We should return to the topic at hand. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
Nidhoeggr said: So basically we shouldn't discuss because we hurt some poor people's feelings? Look at the Mahouka forukms. Every single criticism is mowed down by a few fans after the first episode aired because I ENJOY IT AND YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!!1111 No, you shouldn't act like your opinion is fact and that other people are wrong if they like something you think isn't good. |
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Nidhoeggr said: So basically we shouldn't discuss because we hurt some poor people's feelings? Look at the Mahouka forukms. Every single criticism is mowed down by a few fans after the first episode aired because I ENJOY IT AND YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!!1111 i think you have to differ between the fans of a series and the series itself ;) |
| Domo domo! Kami desu :D |
Xenoplas said: Nidhoeggr said: So basically we shouldn't discuss because we hurt some poor people's feelings? Look at the Mahouka forukms. Every single criticism is mowed down by a few fans after the first episode aired because I ENJOY IT AND YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!!1111 i think you have to differ between the fans of a series and the series itself ;) Of course I differenciate. But my point was about discussion culture and fans' enjoyment and this is just a recent example. Please see my edited posts (bad habit of mine). And now we should really return to the topic... |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
RyanSaotome said: Nidhoeggr said: So basically we shouldn't discuss because we hurt some poor people's feelings? Look at the Mahouka forukms. Every single criticism is mowed down by a few fans after the first episode aired because I ENJOY IT AND YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!!1111 No, you shouldn't act like your opinion is fact and that other people are wrong if they like something you think isn't good. Yup and we're getting out "shit LN adaption" anyway so why bitch about it? |
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Nidhoeggr said: You are free to like anything, but people are also free to dislike anything. And yes, as long as that is related to the topic we can discuss and "bitch" all we want. Read more at http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1147085&show=20#geMD9Q82SWWxLTOw.99 Of course I differenciate. But my point was about discussion culture and fans' enjoyment and this is just a recent example. Please see my edited posts (bad habit of mine). And now we should really return to the topic... of course! it's just stupid to think everybody has to have the same opinion as you :) so as you said back to the topic! |
| Domo domo! Kami desu :D |
RyanSaotome said: metamorphius said: Liph said: The two have never been mutually exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought that is becoming prevalent. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one perceives it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) Pretty much. For example, I find The Idolm@ster to be a very high quality anime. The animation is superb, the character designs are great, the music and dance scenes are incredibly well done. I've watched it a few times and I still can't get enough of it. But the elitists who think all the otaku stuff is "junk" would say its not quality since it doesn't follow their strict definitions of what makes a good tv show. The first half of your comment is pretty much what I am talking about. You see Idolmaster as possessing qualities and it is because of those qualities that you find it highly enjoyable. (Nevermind other people's opinions on the said anime here. It is a quality anime to you, which is why I used "perceive" in my initial comment.) Ergo, that is why I dislike the notion of separating enjoyment and quality as more often than not they are interconnected and strongly interdependent. Xenoplas said: metamorphius said: Liph said: The two have never been mutually exclusive, and I honestly do not understand this train of thought that is becoming prevalent. Is it not likely that one would enjoy an anime if one perceives it as being of good quality?So you rather have quality over enjoyment? That's some strange logic you got there... But to each his own ;) it is likely but there are some exceptions ;) Of course, there always are. I perfectly understand what you're saying. I have a similar case with Azumanga Daioh which I dropped because I just couldn't get into its characters and humour since it is really not my thing, but I can see its strengths. In any case, I wasn't implying one cannot enjoy an anime one sees as highly flawed or lowbrow. It's just that I have noticed on MAL and in the anime community in general that a number of people is starting to see quality and enjoyment as completely separated, and that is something that, frankly, baffles me a bit. Don't mind me truncating your post, I didn't want to make too long quotes. |
metamorphiusApr 15, 2014 1:54 AM
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metamorphius said: It's just that I have noticed on MAL and in the anime community in general that a number of people is starting to see quality and enjoyment are starting as completely separated, and that is something that, frankly, baffles me a bit. I frankly think people are tired of hear their taste being called shit and that we ruins the hobby... I am. This is most likely the result of trying to escape the elitism :/ |
RabbiacApr 15, 2014 2:00 AM
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Liph said: metamorphius said: It's just that I have noticed on MAL and in the anime community in general that a number of people is starting to see quality and enjoyment are starting as completely separated, and that is something that, frankly, baffles me a bit. I frankly think people are tired of hear their taste being called shit and that we ruins the hobby... I am. So in disgruntlement you decided to label yourself anime you like as not being quality and thus separate enjoyment and quality completely, as if the two exist in two bubbles that are never to interconnect? That is the only thing I gather from your comment. |
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metamorphius said: Of course, there always are. I perfectly understand what you're saying. I have a similar case with Azumanga Daioh which I dropped because I just couldn't get into its characters and humour since it is really not my thing, but I can see its strengths. In any case, I wasn't implying one cannot enjoy an anime one sees as highly flawed or lowbrow. It's just that I have noticed on MAL and in the anime community in general that a number of people is starting to see quality and enjoyment as completely separated, and that is something that, frankly, baffles me a bit. Don't mind me truncating your post, I didn't want to make too long quotes. I don't mind - I usually do the same with long posts ;) You're right! A completely enjoyable series must have some quality :) otherwise it wouldn't be enjoyable! it's just that quality isn't just in the plot or the writing style but in the whole thing. Some people just look at the plot and say things like 'the plot is stupid - it's definitely a stupid series'. Have you ever heard of Yahari ore no seishun? At least in my opinion the plot isn't really special but the humor is so excellent that I consider it one of my favourite shows! people should just stop thinking plot or characters are the only quality sign for a good series! |
| Domo domo! Kami desu :D |
| I think you misunderstood meta a bit. Enjoying a highly flawed anime and ranking a highly flawed anime are a bit different for me, though. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
metamorphius said: So in disgruntlement you decided to label yourself anime you like as not being quality and thus separate enjoyment and quality completely, as if the two exist in two bubbles that are never to interconnect? That is the only thing I gather from your comment. Not really, I still have my own standard of quality which go in hand with enjoyment. However using the enjoyment argument is more of a defence thingy after too often hearing your opinions or your standards being called shit. As I said above, some of us have simply grown tired. |
RabbiacApr 15, 2014 2:11 AM
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Liph said: metamorphius said: So in disgruntlement you decided to label yourself anime you like as not being quality and thus separate enjoyment and quality completely, as if the two exist in two bubbles that are never to interconnect? That is the only thing I gather from your comment. Not really, I still have my own standard of quality. However using the enjoyment argument is more of a defence against after hearing to often call your opinions or your standards is shit. As I said above, we simply has grown tired. That makes it kind of a copout, though. In any case, discussing with fans how a series like OreImo or so could be better sounds way more interesting to me than riding on the "enjoyment discussion" train in every thread for hours. I would prefer a more critical discussion because this way everyone profits, but sadly this... ignorance (?) is leaving a negative impact and I am afraid the same happens in Japan as well which is partially one of the reasons why certain genres have such a bad reputation. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
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