One Piece Chapter 850 Discussion

TheCook

Offline

Jan 2013

333

MoonStar9 said:
Target audience doesn't mean the series has to be cartoonishly simplistic, that's a poor excuse. Furthermore, the majority of One Piece readers in Japan are over 20 year old. This was revealed in a survey a few years ago.

It actually does. One Piece main target audience were always 15 year old boys. Oda even stated this himself and it does not matter how old most readers are now. What your problem seems to be is that you demand that the autor adjusts his writing to your evolved tastes now that you have grown out of the target audience of his manga. One Piece never had complex writing, it was always simple fun suited for an audience that does not overanalyze everything like adults do.

MoonStar9 said:
The Vinsmokes will leave once Reiju informs them.

What makes you think that Reiju has the chance to inform them? Right now she is captured.

MoonStar9 said:
Instead of giving any complexity to the situation Oda solves the problem by making everyone evil. If it's a double twist I'll gladly eat my words but that would be merely an assumption until it does. And asking for statistics on semantics? Are you serious?

What problems are solved now exactly? It seems you are the one who makes nothing but assumptions right now.

De_BaerDec 22, 2016 7:46 AM

Dec 22, 2016 7:42 AM

#55

Shradow115

Offline

Aug 2013

244

Dammit, Oda, you got me. Admittedly I'm not good at seeing twists coming but this time I really wanted to believe she wasn't evil. There was always the possibility but I hoped it wouldn't happen. Poor Sanji, though. :(

At least now he can go out and kick some ass and save his friends.

Dec 22, 2016 7:45 AM

#56

Kuma

Offline

Mar 2015

47028

Isterio said:

zal said:
The twist was nice but too black and white.

One time we agree on something.

It´s too exxagerated of a twist because Big Mom has married her daughters for lesser alliances like Capone and Jinbei´s crew.

Her daughter in that particular case is willing to betray her mother which gave this twist a 50/50 chance therefore either conclusion would have been unsatisfying.

think again, why she revealed in front of sanji sister now? why is sanji sister there in the first place? and last chapter, she hurt badly...

"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."

Dec 22, 2016 7:45 AM

#57

Chibi-Alice

Offline

Jun 2008

24605

Is this Pudding's true nature though? Her third eye is showing.
Maybe her eye is making her evil?

Dec 22, 2016 7:53 AM

#58

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

De_Baer said:

Isterio said:

It´s too exxagerated of a twist because Big Mom has married her daughters for lesser alliances like Capone and Jinbei´s crew.

No. Pudding said she is Big Moms favourite and I remember Big Mom saying that she is her precious doll or something. Also the fact that Big Mom keeps Pudding close to her in her own throne room shows that she is much more special to her compared to her other daughters.

That´s like the most retarded excuse possible, similar to the one that "THE VINSMOKES ARE TOO DANGEROUS". What? The vinsmokes a threat to a Yonkou?
How? Why? Their subordinates are strong enough to justify bounties around 1 billion. How would a clone army of disposable soldiers that are fodder level and 5 guys below Luffy´s strength pose a threat to them?
Furthemore The Yonkou are all depicteed as arrogant pricks except shanks and whitebeard, though Whitebeard was arrogant too and that was his downfall.
Why would an arrogant person see a threat in someone he doesn´t acknowledge.

Why should Pudding be the special Snowflake she´s not willing to sacrifice. There was not foreshadowing that made this development clear.
It was a 50/50 chance from start to finish Oda left consistenly both options open.

How is keeping her during a single panel in her throneroom any evidence. Pudding is precious to her because she´s listening to her. Oda clearly has painted that picture of a horrible biologocial parent with her that only values the ones useful "TO HER". In contrast to whitebeard who loved all of this "non biological sons" more than he loved himself.

Dec 22, 2016 7:55 AM

#59

blfan

Offline

Sep 2012

1566

You think Sanji will still go through with the wedding. I don't know if he cares anymore if he dies, and there is a trade off, yes they are going to kill him, but they are also going to kill his a-hole family so a good deal?

Dec 22, 2016 8:01 AM

#60

TheCook

Offline

Jan 2013

333

Isterio said:

How is keeping her during a single panel in her throneroom any evidence.

You have read One Piece for a long time and think this is not the foreshadowing you miss for this relationship between BM and Pudding? Okay. How is this evidence? Well it really isn't because it just is one single panel that does not confirm anything. But tell me why does BM keep Pudding this close to her and not her other daughters? And even in this chapter you hear Pudding say that she is one of BMs favourites and the she has been pampering her to the point of Pudding being annoyed by it. No evidence but the hints are there.

Dec 22, 2016 8:03 AM

#61

FireFistYK

Offline

Jan 2016

1929

"HORY SHIET" (hory intented) ODA DOES IT AGAIN!

The diffrence between regualr mangas and one piece can be seen pretty clearly in this chapter, this plotwist was something that was kinda predictable but the way Oda built it up is amazing. From not even wanting to marry her to falling for her to be devesated by her!

Alot of mangas tend to do this quickly but Oda waited until everyone finally thought that Pudding is a good girl, but then revealed how sinister she is!

10/10 chapter, the year of sanji contiunes!

Dec 22, 2016 8:06 AM

#62

Offline

Oct 2015

1348

De_Baer said:

MoonStar9 said:
Target audience doesn't mean the series has to be cartoonishly simplistic, that's a poor excuse. Furthermore, the majority of One Piece readers in Japan are over 20 year old. This was revealed in a survey a few years ago.

It actually does. One Piece main target audience were always 15 year old boys. Oda even stated this himself and it does not matter how old most readers are now. What your problem seems to be is that you demand that the autor adjusts his writing to your evolved tastes now that you have grown out of the target audience of his manga. One Piece never had complex writing, it was always simple fun suited for an audience that does not overanalyze everything like adults do.

I don't believe that. When has Oda said his writing will never adjust to his mature audience and will always stagnate to 15-year-olds. Did you just make that up? Perhaps I am expecting too much from these shounen, but Oda has proven himself to be a capable writer so I don't think it's too much to ask him not to make everyone evil just to get out of a complex scenario he himself made.

De_Baer said:

MoonStar9 said:
The Vinsmokes will leave once Reiju informs them.

What makes you think that Reiju has the chance to inform them? Right now she is captured.

No she isn't. The events of this chapter precedes the battered Reiju we saw last week. She's already elsewhere right now. Furthermore, you don't think the Vinsmokes will get suspicious if she doesn't return? They already don't trust Big Mom.

De_Baer said:

MoonStar9 said:
Instead of giving any complexity to the situation Oda solves the problem by making everyone evil. If it's a double twist I'll gladly eat my words but that would be merely an assumption until it does. And asking for statistics on semantics? Are you serious?

What problems are solved now exactly? It seems you are the one who makes nothing but assumptions right now.

The problem of Sanji's conflict between staying with Pudding, thus guaranteeing the safety of Zeff and the SHs, and choosing his freedom and friends's wishes is solved. He now hears there will be a massacre of the Vinsmokes, himself included, meaning Big Mom won't let the SHs go either. He has no obligation to stay a docile captive. Everybody is evil and will kill everyone he loves either way so he'll have to fight for it. Problem solved. I'm making informed assumptions. Better than simply defending it without critical thinking.

BobaFouette said:

MoonStar9 said:
Why is everyone saying this twist was masterful? It was so obvious that it can't even be called a twist. The majority of people considered this at one point or another. I was honestly hoping Oda wouldn't go this route but he did. Instead of making it a conflict where Sanji would have to choose between Pudding, the SHs and Zeff's lives, and his freedom and friends' wishes he simply made Pudding evil to null all of it. I'm sorry, I love One Piece but that was simplistic writing. Fairy Tail level writing.

But Sanji had made up his mind chapters ago. He was still devastated that he had to leave the crew but he thought he would find comfort in Pudding's arms. This twist isn't well done because it was unexpected, but because if it turned out to be true, Sanji would be at the absolute bottom of the barrel, and Oda like the absolute madman he is actually went through with it. It's not that we didn't see it coming, it's that we didn't want it to happen for Sanji's sake. It also shows how much Oda can play at will with the rules he himself set up for his manga ; both of the major arcs post-timeskip had a damsel in distress and Pudding was presented as a third logical continuation of this trope, so there was absolutely no real way to be absolutely sure if she was lying or not.

Now the dices are rolled once again and literally ANYTHING can happen. I do think we're on our way to a possible reluctant SH-Germa alliance. Either way, it's obvious that this whole situation can't be solved the usual way, AKA fighting.

Sanji is actually the damsel in distress in this arc, not Pudding, so the formula hasn't really changed.

Dec 22, 2016 8:08 AM

#63

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

zal said:
Maybe we agree but for different reasons. Do you remember that great moment with black beard at the prison when luffy asks what his plan is and he says there's no reason to reveal it?
Well, here Oda fells in the cliché at contrary of that moment. She reveals her intentions to Luffy for no reason. Perhaps there's a reason why she is revealing her true nature to Sanji's sister but it is a bit too convenient that Sanji sees it...

Also the too black and white was referred particularly at how she was depicted to be loved by the readers and now is portrayed in a way to be hated as the most evil person in the universe.

Well like I said.

1. It´s exxagerated, meaning that she´s so comicly bad that she comes off as a cartoon villain of a Saturday morning show. That´s what I assume you are refering too as Black and White, which I called exxagerated.

2. Last chapter she was crying after telling Nami and Luffy the truth.
Were those tears of Joy? Why does she make a sad face then?
It´s cheap copout, there was not a single indication last chapter that could have hinted at her being actually a betrayer.

3. (my already explained point) While the story was set up and hinted at a betrayal there was never a confirmation that either side was right untill chapter 849. The audience could not have predicted this outcome with certainty.

4. This chapter retcons the development of the last one. She could just turn next chapter around and say she´s a good person and this was all a charade and it wouldn´t be much worse than last chapter.

5. And I hope Oda won´t deliver this bs excuse of "she wanted to kill Sanji but she fell in love with him because of his kind personality ". Hell no.

OOHH SHE ONLY HURT REIJUU BECAUSE THE VINSMOKES TORTURED SANJI and SHE REALLY WANTED TO RUN OFF WITH, HIM. BUT KILL HIS FAMILY, THA´S WHY SHE CRIED LAST CHAPTER. IT STARTED AS A BETRAYAL BUT IT BECAME LOVE.

Please Oda don´t make this plottwist happen or I´m gonna puke. I don´t want her to be a good person at all at this point just stick with it.

IsterioDec 22, 2016 8:18 AM

Dec 22, 2016 8:09 AM

#64

MantaBaby

Offline

Nov 2014

1349

MoonStar9 said:

MantaBaby said:

He does have to choose. Go with the wedding and save strawhats or go save luffy in the land of BIG Mom and risk everything or just fuck everything and merk everyone and shed blood. It is still conflict just made easier with Pudding being actually bad.

In the end he will save his family (yes, that includes dad and fucktard brothers) since BM wants the army alone and not the "family ties" and SH and friends.

Pudding just said the wedding will be a massacre of the Vinsmokes. What complex choice is there? The Vinsmokes will leave once Reiju informs them. Dumb of her to do so btw.

The question is.. could she leave? She was tied down pretty well. The Vinsmokes won't leave since they 'expect' a wedding and family ties but Big Mom only wants the 'Clone Army' and no ties what so ever. The wedding will be an ambush. This is why its interesting and not the 'fairy tail 'obvious whats going to happen next' type of writing. You never know what happens.

Dec 22, 2016 8:12 AM

#65

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

De_Baer said:

Isterio said:

How is keeping her during a single panel in her throneroom any evidence.

You have read One Piece for a long time and think this is not the foreshadowing you miss for this relationship between BM and Pudding? Okay. How is this evidence? Well it really isn't because it just is one single panel that does not confirm anything. But tell me why does BM keep Pudding this close to her and not her other daughters? And even in this chapter you hear Pudding say that she is one of BMs favourites and the she has been pampering her to the point of Pudding being annoyed by it. No evidence but the hints are there.

Isterio said:
Pudding is precious to her because she´s listening to her. Oda clearly has painted that picture of a horrible biologocial parent with her that only values the ones useful "TO HER". In contrast to whitebeard who loved all of this "non biological sons" more than he loved himself.

Already answered that gotta quote myself!

IsterioDec 22, 2016 8:15 AM

Dec 22, 2016 8:12 AM

#66

TheCook

Offline

Jan 2013

333

MoonStar9 said:

I don't believe that. When has Oda said his writing will never adjust to his mature audience and will always stagnate to 15-year-olds. Did you just make that up? Perhaps I am expecting too much from these shounen, but Oda has proven himself to be a capable writer so I don't think it's too much to ask him not to make everyone evil just to get out of a complex scenario he himself made.

He mentioned it in some interview: http://opforum.net/threads/eiichiro-odas-interviews.8241/

Oh and "informed" assumptions are still nothing but assumptions.

Dec 22, 2016 8:15 AM

#67

stefcici3

Offline

Dec 2016

1

Just a second.
First less important thing Zepo ? Bepo's relative ? Interesting
Chooper and Carrot nice nice.
What about Broook ?I assume he is gonna be alive coz he is skeleton .
And as for main twist. Well I guess this is it .
But But But. Why is Pudding telling this to Reiju? Why did she even bother to tell Luffy and Nami ? It can be really tru and she might end up evil.But
Remember at Ennies Loby Nico Robin also shot Iceburg first times . And than revelved that she is doing that to save crew. Al beggining it looked like she was vilian . Also back at Arlong Park didnt Nami do same ?Told Luffy and Zoro and Ussop and Sanji that shes with Arlong to protect them ?It could be that Pudding was one who injured Reiju but why did she let her go ? To tell Vinsmokes ? I dont think so . Maybe i am wrong but Pudding might be doing this on purpose . Maybe she wanted Sanji to see that talk with Reiju ? Maybe she want to tell Luffy and Nami to so they can somehow speed up their escape . And also maybe she wanted to make a fuss coz she realy loves Sanji and she is afterall Lola sister. Just imagine what if Pudding mess this all situation ip to actuallz save Sanji ?Not sure but maybe . Remember Jinbei is there too with Winsmokes and Strawhats that could be formirable alliance . Also Pedro . AND THAT box from fishman island .hmm Capone is there to if he sees Big Mom fall he will for sure betray her . Cracker is down to . So that leaves 2 sweet comanders and some more strong ones .But if Pudding truly acts like this . just act. she can somehow inderectly form an Army that can maybe maybe take down Big Mom. Remember Dressrosa ? Strawhats plus Law plus Gladiators plus Riku aemy plus small people plus Sabo and Navy ... Man i hope Pidding is not evil .

Dec 22, 2016 8:19 AM

#68

TheCook

Offline

Jan 2013

333

Isterio said:
Pudding is precious to her because she´s listening to her. Oda clearly has painted that picture of a horrible biologocial parent with her that only values the ones useful "TO HER". In contrast to whitebeard who loved all of this "non biological sons" more than he loved himself.

I think Pudding is a rare creature because she has 3 eyes. This is why BM does not want to let her go under any circumstances.

Dec 22, 2016 8:21 AM

#69

cheeshine

Offline

Jan 2015

94

I kinda have a mixed feelings when it was revealed that Pudding is actually evil. I was actually glad about it since she's already being suspicious af. But on the other hand I wish that it was revealed sooner (probably in the altar) because I felt that it would've been more impactful. Since most people are already suspicious of her currently so it would've been better to show her "nice" side longer

I hope Sanji pulls a "Mr. Prince" thing again and manipulate the whole wedding since he knows Pudding's plan now and save the Vinsmokes and others so that he could return to the Strawhats

Dec 22, 2016 8:23 AM

#70

Offline

Jan 2015

2947

MoonStar9 said:
One Piece fans tend to be impressed with anything Oda puts out. I'm not exaggerating anything. Have a look throughout the last 20 chapter discussions on this forum and find me 5 bad comments, go on.

...and what's the correlation of oda's flock with ur "critic" in this chapter? When it doesn't work on you, doesn't mean it not twist. keyser soze is still a twist even if I know that earlier. No matter how I realized m night shaymalan movie trick, it still trope called twist. When U're sound like someone that just tend to be different with the rest of community and exaggerating ur line it to look impress.

Target audience doesn't mean the series has to be cartoonishly simplistic, that's a poor excuse.

wait wait, what, did you mean it's that low, cartoonic simplistic? Like stuff that even elemantary school not gonna watch it or something? Lol smh

Furthermore, the majority of One Piece readers in Japan are over 20 year old. This was revealed in a survey a few years ago.

it's useless argument if you want to come with that fact. As grown up, old fan should realized it was still targeted for ±15 aka shonen and neither oda or jump gonna change that demographic. I'm not said oda didn't realized of the existent of adult readers. He just don't see the need of his story cohere with us adult mindset at all. That's when grown up read kid or teenage stuff right now.

la critique de l'intention pure

Dec 22, 2016 8:24 AM

#71

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

De_Baer said:

I think Pudding is a rare creature because she has 3 eyes. This is why BM does not want to let her go under any circumstances.

What the hell are you talking about? You jump from one excuse to another and now you´re grasping at straws.

GIVEN BIG MOMS PERSONALITY PUDDING SHOULD BE IN THE BOOK IF THIS WAS THE CASE. REMEMBER, MEMBER STAR WARS? I MEMBER. BIG MOM IS SEFLISHNESS INCARNATE. She marries whoever she pleases, she forces her kids into marriage and she kills husbands and children without a second thought.

Your excuses become thinner with each iteration. Why would she treat her well if she´s nothing more than a precious "OBJECT" to her.

OH CHILD WE CAN´T MARRY YOU! IDC ABOUT ANY OF MY CHILDREN AND I TREAT MY EXOTIC CREATURES AS "OBJECTS ". BUT NOT YOU PUDDING.
PUDDING YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION OUT OF 84 CHILDREN AND COUNTLESS EXOTIC ANIMALS. YOU ARE BOTH SO I LOVE ONLY YOU!

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

This is the train of thought you have to go on to justify your excuse for an excuse.

IsterioDec 22, 2016 8:28 AM

Dec 22, 2016 8:29 AM

#72

Crocospect22

Offline

Jul 2014

635

what a twist, damn i hope Sanji broke his rule to punch her face so bad so she only can feel shit, i hope there will be help come soon, like Zoro cs and Law or maybe Jinbei, i feel so frustated to see they can't do anything right now especially Sanji, got trolled so much....

Dec 22, 2016 8:29 AM

#73

TheCook

Offline

Jan 2013

333

Isterio said:

De_Baer said:

I think Pudding is a rare creature because she has 3 eyes. This is why BM does not want to let her go under any circumstances.

What the hell are you talking about? You jump from one excuse to another and now you´re grasping at straws.

GIVEN BIG MOMS PERSONALITY PUDDING SHOULD BE IN THE BOOK IF THIS WAS THE CASE. REMEMBER, MEMBER STAR WARS? I MEMBER. BIG MOM IS SEFLISHNESS INCARNATE. She marries whoever she pleases, she forces her kids into marriage and she kills husbands and children without a second thought.

Your excuses become thinner with each iteration. Why would she treat her well if she´s nothing more than a precious "OBJECT" to her.

OH CHILD WE CAN´T MARRY YOU! IDC ABOUT ANY OF MY CHILDREN AND I TREAT MY EXOTIC CREATURES AS "OBJECTS ". BUT NOT YOU PUDDING.
PUDDING YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION OUT OF 84 CHILDREN AND COUNTLESS EXOTIC ANIMALS. YOU ARE BOTH SO I LOVE ONLY YOU!

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Ok, can we resume this discussion after you have taken your chill pill? No need to act like a little brat with anger issues.

Dec 22, 2016 8:32 AM

#74

Hirugiku

Offline

Jan 2015

1495

So her third eye is completely closed when she is hiding her true face and whenever she shows her true nature her eyes opens. Nice detail Oda

Dec 22, 2016 8:35 AM

#75

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

De_Baer said:

Ok, can we resume this discussion after you have taken your chill pill? No need to act like a little brat with anger issues.

Being angry has nothing to do with age, but with constitution and I can only take so much horseshit before I break.

I thoroughly rationally explained to you. Why not none of what you propose make sense and you constantly keep avoiding it by throwing even worse horseshit theories at me.

What am I supposes to do with that?
You clearly indicate that you don´t want to discuss, you give me to understand that all you care for is the story to turn out the way you want it to turn out even when clearly anything speaks against it.

Tell me what are your rational arguments, against my in angerly spoken, yet rational arguments!

Next you´re going to tell me that "The Martha momment" from Batman v Superman made sense and was good storytelling.

Don´t agree with me, hear out a reviewer who clearly LOVES One Piece to death why this chapter was bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alHOd-ZSBfU

Dec 22, 2016 8:36 AM

#76

Offline

Oct 2015

1348

De_Baer said:

MoonStar9 said:

I don't believe that. When has Oda said his writing will never adjust to his mature audience and will always stagnate to 15-year-olds. Did you just make that up? Perhaps I am expecting too much from these shounen, but Oda has proven himself to be a capable writer so I don't think it's too much to ask him not to make everyone evil just to get out of a complex scenario he himself made.

He mentioned it in some interview: http://opforum.net/threads/eiichiro-odas-interviews.8241/

Oh and "informed" assumptions are still nothing but assumptions.

I didn't find anything. If you can find the exact quote I'll believe you. You've sent me to a massive databank I could spend hours looking through. You said it, so you prove it. Also, no, an informed assumption is based on acquired knowledge. It has weight to it. There is other forms of assumptions, such baseless assumptions that have no merit which is basically what you amounted my arguments to in an attempt to deflect any points I've made.

Dec 22, 2016 8:43 AM

#77

BobaFouette

Offline

Sep 2016

30

Well, this chapter aside, I really hope we'll have a verbal confrontation between Usopp and Pudding where she's put in a situation where she has to bullshit her way through. Usopp being able to tell she's lying and expose her would be nothing short of glorious.

Dec 22, 2016 8:44 AM

#78

Offline

Oct 2015

1348

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
One Piece fans tend to be impressed with anything Oda puts out. I'm not exaggerating anything. Have a look throughout the last 20 chapter discussions on this forum and find me 5 bad comments, go on.

...and what's the correlation of oda's flock with ur "critic" in this chapter? When it doesn't work on you, doesn't mean it not twist. keyser soze is still a twist even if I know that earlier. No matter how I realized m night shaymalan movie trick, it still trope called twist. When U're sound like someone that just tend to be different with the rest of community and exaggerating ur line it to look impress.

When it's obvious it's not much of a twist. It's something many people predicted. I didn't exaggerate anything, nor am I trying to impress anyone on a damn forum, I'm here to express my thoughts on the manga. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
Target audience doesn't mean the series has to be cartoonishly simplistic, that's a poor excuse.

wait wait, what, did you mean it's that low, cartoonic simplistic? Like stuff that even elemantary school not gonna watch it or something? Lol smh

Like Nickelodeon stuff. This "twist" was more cartoonish than anything in Avatar the Last Airbender.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
Furthermore, the majority of One Piece readers in Japan are over 20 year old. This was revealed in a survey a few years ago.

it's useless argument if you want to come with that fact. As grown up, old fan should realized it was still targeted for ±15 aka shonen and neither oda or jump gonna change that demographic. I'm not said oda didn't realized of the existent of adult readers. He just don't see the need of his story cohere with us adult mindset at all. That's when grown up read kid or teenage stuff right now.

So you're saying Oda has no obligation to match the maturity of his readership? Is that what you were thinking when Law's flashback was shown where innocent women and children were murdered? How about when Law hid amongst the corpses of his people to be smugled out of the Flevance? Or what about on Zou when the Minks were being tortured? Is this simplistic material for 15 year olds, or does that only apply when you can't defend shoddy writing?

MantaBaby said:

MoonStar9 said:

Pudding just said the wedding will be a massacre of the Vinsmokes. What complex choice is there? The Vinsmokes will leave once Reiju informs them. Dumb of her to do so btw.

The question is.. could she leave? She was tied down pretty well. The Vinsmokes won't leave since they 'expect' a wedding and family ties but Big Mom only wants the 'Clone Army' and no ties what so ever. The wedding will be an ambush. This is why its interesting and not the 'fairy tail 'obvious whats going to happen next' type of writing. You never know what happens.

Dude, Reiju was seen walking a corridor last chapter. The events of this chapter occur to show why that was. She's already left the room. Furthermore, Sanji heard it himself! It's not an ambush if people expect it.

MoonStar9Dec 22, 2016 8:47 AM

Dec 22, 2016 8:49 AM

#79

Offline

Oct 2015

1348

Turtles_Leader said:

MoonStar9 said:
I didn't find anything. If you can find the exact quote I'll believe you. You've sent me to a massive databank I could spend hours looking through. You said it, so you prove it. Also, no, an informed assumption is based on acquired knowledge. It has weight to it. There is other forms of assumptions, such baseless assumptions that have no merit which is basically what you amounted my arguments to in an attempt to deflect any points I've made.

the big interview hidden by a spoiler tag.
"Oda: To this day, I've never truly felt pressure about becoming successful. I always try to stay focused on making manga for just a single audience, because in most circumstances, you read manga by yourself. So whenever I draw manga, I have only one reader in my mind myself as a 15-year-old. I have no idea how other people would feel, so I turn back to the 15-year-old me to make a judgment on what is awesome or not. I always try to stay true to myself, and somehow it resonates with the kids who read my manga."

Also the 19th quote "- The main target reader of ONE PIECE is 15-year-old male. SWITCH (November 2009)" (5th after the second spoiler image)

Fair enough. I concede. One Piece is written for 15 year olds. Thanks.

Dec 22, 2016 8:51 AM

#80

TheCook

Offline

Jan 2013

333

Isterio said:

Don´t agree with me, hear out a reviewer who clearly LOVES One Piece to death why this chapter was bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alHOd-ZSBfU

He gives the chapter a 5/5. What are you talking about? lol

Oh, and what "horseshit theories" do you even mean? That Pudding is somehow more precious to her than other daughters and the hints I mentioned? Seriously, it does not matter how many times you are trying to predict the behaviour of a character based on what we have been shown so far, there is no reason at all to assume because of that everything will happen just like you assume. I simply think that Pudding is more valuable to Big Mom than all her other daughters for reasons that are unknown at this point in time. Maybe it is because she has 3 eyes, maybe because she has some special powers or maybe she actually is the daughter of someone BM actually loved? The possibilities are there and who says we already know everything about Big Mom and what really goes on inside of her?

De_BaerDec 22, 2016 9:00 AM

Dec 22, 2016 8:55 AM

#81

ZoroZoldyck

Offline

May 2014

955

KISHKISHKISHKISHKISHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSH

Dec 22, 2016 9:01 AM

#82

ZoroZoldyck

Offline

May 2014

955

Why are people lashing out when we just saw this side of Pudding in a few panels? Give it a bit of time will ya

Dec 22, 2016 9:12 AM

#83

Offline

Jan 2015

2947

MoonStar9 said:
when it's obvious it's not much of a twist. It's something many people predicted.

In storytelling
technique it still a twist, no matter work or not worked.

I didn't exaggerate anything, nor am I trying to impress anyone on a damn forum, I'm here to express my thoughts on the manga. If you don't like it, that's your problem..

well, ofc no one gonna admit who is right or wrong there, it's internet

MoonStar9 said:
Like Nickelodeon stuff. This "twist" was more cartoonish than anything in Avatar the Last Airbender.

but in the first place u said it wasn't even a twist smh. Also since when avatar became a legit bad meme o.O

So you're saying Oda has no obligation to match the maturity of his readership?

no, u're pull wrong conclusion there. dude, go read some of his interview scattered all around internet, it came for oda's mouth himself. It was his ideal and principal as well.

bla bla bla some violence contents implemented

Still it shown in context and appropriate for 15 years old there

when you can't defend shoddy writing?

are you a writer? An expertise on literature? can you even elaborate what is shoddy writing is, what poor writing is, what will we gonna defend in the first place? Except the truth didn't meet some reader self-expectation.

karambiaDec 22, 2016 9:30 AM

la critique de l'intention pure

Dec 22, 2016 9:19 AM

#84

Ralonzo

Offline

Oct 2007

361

Epic chapter is epic.

You had me 95% convinced Pudding was sincere, Oda. That doesn't happen often.

<slow clap>

Dec 22, 2016 9:21 AM

#85

Offline

Oct 2013

4275

MoonStar9 said:

One Piece fans tend to be impressed with anything Oda puts out. I'm not exaggerating anything. Have a look throughout the last 20 chapter discussions on this forum and find me 5 bad comments, go on.

Target audience doesn't mean the series has to be cartoonishly simplistic, that's a poor excuse. Furthermore, the majority of One Piece readers in Japan are over 20 year old. This was revealed in a survey a few years ago.

That´s why One Piece has the worst fandom among the Big 3 and Dragon Ball. It´s like they turn their brain off when reading this series.
People who can perfectly recognize and evaluete flaws in other works of fiction go apesshit when the same horseshit writing gets delivered in One Piece because It´s first in Japan! Therefore it can´t be flawed.

Dec 22, 2016 9:22 AM

#86

Offline

Oct 2015

1348

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
Like Nickelodeon stuff. This "twist" was more cartoonish than anything in Avatar the Last Airbender.

but in the first place u said it wasn't even a twist smh. Also since when avatar became a legit bad meme o.O

I said it wasn't a twist because it was obvious yes. And I didn't use Avatar as a bad example, I used it as the Nickeodeon plot-tied animated series it is.

jeanseberg said:

bla bla bla some violence contents implemented

Still it shown in context and appropriate for 15 years old there

So cartoonishly evil and simplistic villains and mass murder are both targets for the same age groups? Either it's meant for kids or it's not. Pick one.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
when you can't defend shoddy writing?

are you a writer? An expertise on literature? can you even elaborate what is shoddy writing is, what poor writing is, what will we gonna defend in the first place? Except the truth didn't meet some reader self-expectation.

An argument that pops up whenever I criticize anything about One Piece... "Are you a chef? An expert in culinary arts? Can you even elaborate on what bad taste is?"

Just because I'm not a writer doesn't mean I can't identify weak writing. Otherwise Hiro Mashima would be a great author just by default.

Dec 22, 2016 9:49 AM

#87

Offline

Jan 2015

2947

MoonStar9 said:
I said it wasn't a twist because it was obvious yes.

no matter work or not, it implanted twist there. It's a twist.

And I didn't use Avatar as a bad example, I used it as the Nickeodeon plot-tied animated series it is.

so cartoonish "twist" didn't bad at all, ain't it?

So cartoonishly evil and simplistic villains and mass murder are both targets for the same age groups? Either it's meant for kids or it's not. Pick one.

the content is still "shown in context and still being appropriated for ±15 years old boy" . It's not they blatanly show NSFW content or graphic imagery.

MoonStar9 said:
An argument that pops up whenever I criticize anything about One Piece... "Are you a chef? An expert in culinary arts? Can you even elaborate on what bad taste is?"

an escape comment. it's no different when you can't elaborated thing that you don't understand with a layman try to do self justification.

Just because I'm not a writer doesn't mean I can't identify weak writing. Otherwise Hiro Mashima would be a great author just by default.

hiro mashima already been bad meme as well. One doesn't even need to read him to know that.

Isterio said:
That´s why One Piece has the worst fandom among the Big 3 and Dragon Ball. It´s like they turn their brain off when reading this series.
People who can perfectly recognize and evaluete flaws in other works of fiction go apesshit when the same horseshit writing gets delivered in One Piece because It´s first in Japan! Therefore it can´t be flawed.

Every of us fan is cancer, more popular and controversial, the more malignant it was, the fanboy-ness and fangirl-ness.
But to be clear there are lot criticized and divide opinion from one piece fan themselves all this time, been especially post time skip, at peak at dressrossa. I'm in question why you ppl haven't looked to realize that and generalized thing. well it's like where have you been all this time?
Seems doesn't even know that there different between being legitimate critic with posing around among half baked opinions.

karambiaDec 22, 2016 10:12 AM

la critique de l'intention pure

Dec 22, 2016 10:02 AM

#88

The10tailedwolf

Offline

Mar 2014

156

Well you manage fool me for the first time Oda, I thought for sure Pudding would turn out to be good, but I guess not. My badd to anyone I doubted, calling this bitch "evil" from the start.

It was obvious that she was the '3-eyed girl' though, that's not a surprise.

Dec 22, 2016 10:11 AM

#89

Offline

Oct 2015

1348

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
I said it wasn't a twist because it was obvious yes.

no matter work or not, it implanted twist there. It's a twist.

Yes, it's a twist, that wasn't the point of my comment. The point I was making is that it was so obvious it might as well not be. Stop arguing semantics. It's a waste of time.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
And I didn't use Avatar as a bad example, I used it as the Nickeodeon plot-tied animated series it is.

so cartoonish "twist" didn't bad at all, ain't it?

Yes, it's still bad. Avatar was written competently. I just said it's not a bad example, I was merely comparing what the show accomplished on Nickelodeon to what One Piece did this chapter. Pay attention.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
So cartoonishly evil and simplistic villains and mass murder are both targets for the same age groups? Either it's meant for kids or it's not. Pick one.

the content is still "shown in context and still being appropriated for ±15 years old boy" . It's not they blatanly show NSFW content or graphic imagery.

The dead bodies of the children were right there. It was graphic. Not, brutal graphic, but graphic nonetheless. Something that would never be shown on TV without some level of censorship. Which is exactly what happened.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
An argument that pops up whenever I criticize anything about One Piece... "Are you a chef? An expert in culinary arts? Can you even elaborate on what bad taste is?"

an escape comment. it's no different when you can't elaborated thing that you don't understand with a layman try to do self justification.

Escape comment? Providing a legit comparison to your ridiculous comment that I need to be a manga writer to criticise Oda is an escape comment. Don't make me laugh. I've justified every point I made on this forum. You have tried to deflect them by claiming One Piece is written for kids, therefore it's allowed to be simplistic and cartoonish, only to now claim I have no merit to say what is good and bad writing because I'm not a mangaka. Absolutely ridiculous, but I guess it's to be expected. Some fans just can't accept something they love isn't without flaws.

jeanseberg said:

MoonStar9 said:
Just because I'm not a writer doesn't mean I can't identify weak writing. Otherwise Hiro Mashima would be a great author just by default.

hiro mashima already been bad meme as well. One doesn't even need to read him to know that.

A meme is not sufficient constructive criticism. What are you even talking about? Memes don't automatically make Mashima a bad writer. Critiquing his work to find lazy writing and plot contrivances does.

MoonStar9Dec 22, 2016 10:14 AM

Dec 22, 2016 10:39 AM

#90

Offline

Jan 2015

2947

MoonStar9 said:
Yes, it's a twist, that wasn't the point of my comment. The point I was making is that it was so obvious it might as well not be. Stop arguing semantics. It's a waste of time.

u're the one complicating it

Yes, it's still bad. Avatar was written competently. I just said it's not a bad example, I was merely comparing what the show accomplished on Nickelodeon to what One Piece did this chapter. Pay attention.

that's sound twisting there

The dead bodies of the children were right there. It was graphic. Not, brutal graphic, but graphic nonetheless. Something that would never be shown on TV without some level of censorship. Which is exactly what happened.

tv aired in japan at 10 AM sunday, actually kid slot.

Escape comment? Providing a legit comparison to your ridiculous comment that I need to be a manga writer to criticise Oda is an escape comment.

yeah you don't need to be manga writer, but still you can't elaborated what shody writing is so probably u're need to consider that option.

Don't make me laugh.

wait, aren't u triggered yet?

I've justified every point I made on this forum. You have tried to deflect them by claiming One Piece is written for kids

± 15 year old boys is not simply as "kid" dude. Never wrote that o.O

therefore it's allowed to be simplistic and cartoonish, only to now claim I have no merit to say what is good and bad writing because I'm not a mangaka. Absolutely ridiculous, but I guess it's to be expected.

when you still can't elaborated your point what is shody writing is. layman-ness so strong here.

Some fans just can't accept something they love isn't without flaws.

Are you new in what to be called "community" . Is that concept just you found out? As lot of criticism already made for oda and one piece.

A meme is not sufficient constructive criticism. What are you even talking about? Memes don't automatically make Mashima a bad writer. Critiquing his work to find lazy writing and plot contrivances does.

no, it's not. U're take that too literally. lot of ppl fell and eat that meme so how does I suppose say that in sarcastic way?
What even this lazy writing is?

la critique de l'intention pure

Dec 22, 2016 10:40 AM

#91

RileyReid

Offline

Jan 2016

1343

"year of sanji"
yep, year of sanji getting rekt whenever he can

Dec 22, 2016 10:43 AM

#92

Yakano

Offline

Dec 2016

35

Hahaha Where are those guys who were telling me on the other forums saying that Pudding wasn't evil and that I should give her a chance?!
I knew it from the very moment I seen her that she was evil and I never let up on saying so, now I was proven right.

Dec 22, 2016 11:11 AM

#93

metsujin

Offline

Jun 2013

1727

You know it would be funny if Oda did another "twist", where Pudding its not actually "evil". I'd laugh my ass of at that, but it would be a retarded twist, on a FT kinda level. There's more to this than it seems.

Dec 22, 2016 11:20 AM

#94