One Piece Chapter 842 Discussion

MoonStar9 said:


What's contrived is that she received the Vivre Card 2 years ago and coincidentally had it on her person at the very moment it was needed.

Do you honestly think anybody reading OP doesn't know that Sanji treasures Zeff or was that just a snide remark?

That's absolutely false. Most people develop their internal biases during their childhoods. This would also be magnified if that child had a traumatic experience. In Sanji's case all the people who represented cruelty were males and the ones who represented kindness and gentleness were females. It's completely within reason for him to associate those traits instinctively by gender rather than by person on a subsconcious level before truly interacting with those people to find out who they really are.

ashfrliebert said:

Lola gave Nami the Vivre Card so it could be used for assistance in the new world ( Volume 50, 489 for your convenience, at the tail end of thriller bark), which they've only been in for a few days. That makes an easy excuse for it to have never been noticeably on her person in Paradise (which is noticeably not the new world). Big Mom was a obvious destination point, as learned from Fishman Island. It's been foreshadowed rather blatantly I feel.


I mean, he *did* say he acts that way because he was raised to. Chapter 403

One Piece has a tendency to be very idealistic manga. Sanji's (and Zeff's) treatment of women is parallel to Niji's treatment of women (Cosette), clearly. It's not real.

MoonStar9 said:


Yes, I've been reading the manga as well... Everybody considered Lola to be Big Mom's daughter. The fact that Nami used the Vivre Card was not only expected but is also too obvious to even make a point of. That's not the issue. The issue is that Nami had no idea the Vivre Card belonged to Big Mom and therefore had no need of it yet we are to believe she had it in her cleavage at the very moment it was needed to leave the forrest?!

Not only that, the Vivre Card also enabled her to gain control over all the Homies? Are you serious? How is that not contrived??? Any other manga this happened in would have been called out but because it is OP it must be explained away.

I'm not clueless. revoilt made a response steeped in realism which I in turn logically argued against for what it was worth. I don't expect Oda to write with that level of realism in mind after reading 842 chapters of OP. It was for arguments' sake. All the same, not being real is a poor excuse for unrealistic writing. Otherwise we may as well say the very same thing in defense of Fairy Tail and everything that breaks our suspension of disbelief too much.

ashfrliebert said:

Well this didn't address everything I said...even if she had it, she would never *need* to use it in any other situation. She used it because their against *Big Mom's* executives.


I don't need to explain that, because One Piece already did 4/5 chapters ago, and they explained that using something we learned 13 chapters ago as reference.




Why does Luffy always run into danger? You make no sense ODA! Humans have a natural instinct to live!

You are criticizing something that *didn't* happen. Unrealistic writing is not the problem, unrealistic writing means unrealistic relative to the fictional series consistencies. One Piece has already set a precedent for this kind of thing. With Shanks and Luffy in volume 1, chapter 1. That is assuming you think somebody having the values they gained from the person who saved their lives and not from doing the opposite of the person who disowned them is somehow unrealistic.

MoonStar9 said:



Look, I'm going to state this firmly because you clearly think otherwise. I know everything in the chapters has been explained without plotholes. All of it. That's not the issue. I took issue with the explanations used not that there was none.

It's explained the Vivre Card has Big Mom's soul in it therefore the Homies are afraid of it. I get that, okay? Are we on the same page still? My issue is that not only does Nami happen to have that card on her person at this very moment after 2 years,

but also that it DOES give her the ability to control the Homies. Yes, it was explained why it does but the fact that it does is nonetheless an asspull from a seemingly inescapable scenario.

You're saying she's had it on her at all times since the moment she left Thriller Bark but just didn't need to take it out, and I'm saying that's B.S. There's no way she'd have a mundane Vivre Card given to her two years ago on her at all times.

"I don't expect Oda to write with that level of realism in mind after reading 842 chapters of OP". What do you think this means...? What am I criticising that didn't happen? The only things I criticised were things that did happen.

ashfrliebert said:

It's a memento to specifically be used at a specific part of the world, which she only recently arrived in (all of this was explained 30 volumes before now, just btw, volume 50 to be specific) why would she discard it?


So despite the fact that the Vivre Card was not only shown and foreshadowed before hand (really blatantly) 30 volumes ago(Lola, voulme 50 for convenience), not only already important beforehand in a big way and explained 70 volumes ago (Ace, volume 18, for convenience, the vivre's card use), not only introduced precedence to with Big Mom's soul fruit..6 months ago...and then *explained* with prior context about 5 chapters ago..it's still an asspull.


She was on the new world for two arcs. Which it was *specifically* stated to be of use of by Lola. Thriller Bark was the last arc before Kuma split them, so the only other hostile situation she was in was against Jola, whom she was incapacitated by because of her Devil Fruit.

It was given to her by a very prominent and important character to her, or at least, their Zombie was prominent. It was hardly mundane, or it would otherwise be an entirely pointless item to exist in the series and entirely wasted panel space.

It'd be like Ace giving Luffy the vivre card and it having no purpose whatsoever for the entire duration of the series.

"Anyone remember that one thing that was specifically said to be important in the New World and given to one of the main characters, with clear emphasis. Yeah it's never going to be shown again". - Oda


The criticism that Sanji's chivalry didn't come from his mother but instead the person who raised him.

Edit: But I'll admit I'm slightly wrong, see where you're coming from here. Do kinda agree with you that it would've added more depth for Sanji's ever-annoying gag, I just think it still makes sense as it is and still fits fine with Judge and Zeff's parallel's. He doesn't hire women because he "can't kick them in the face", I don't think it works that perfectly, flawed logic. But I think it still makes sense (from a narrative perspective), Zeff treats (some) people well and Judge locked up his son. Sanji gravitated extremely to the ladder.

I still think Sanji's chivalry, in itself, is stupid sometimes and this, or last chapter, doesn't really justify..say, not defending yourself against a secretary that's trying to kill you or your crewmates. And it especially doesn't defend a *nosebleed* as a plot point. But that's nothing here or there.

ColdJester said:
I love how creative Luffy's attacks are.

Kuma said:
that was feel anticlimatic, but love how comical it was... sanji got my respect... can't wat next chapter...
isn't 4yh gear supposed to be dangerous? how is it used soo oftenly?

MajinAkuma said:
Luffy only won because of Nami. But it was smart of him to use the hardness of the biscuit soldiers against Cracker.

ashfrliebert said:

nami couldn't do it on her own!