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Super_Boom said: Honestly, in regards to the locket, I agree that the most likely scenario is that Onodera will be the promised girl...though I've never really felt that plotline was the most crucial part of the story. The title of the series, the premise of the one-shot, and the entire set up for the manga really revolves around the Shuei-Gumi/Beehive conflict, and reverse Romeo/Juliet story that involves the main pair. I do think the locket will be resolved, but I've always held that the conflict between the two gangs will take center stage during the climax of the series. I suppose we'll find out soon though. I also think that was the original plan but as time went those motives faded away and I certainly doubt this conflict will ever take place. I mean, look at an example in this last arc - Chitoge's disappearance could possibly fire some hostilities between both gangs (I was hoping for it), yet its members were just running around in despair. That's why I think at this point they are there only as part of the comedy and I would say this theme had wasted its potential in this series. Super_Boom said: Also...I can't help but be a bit surprised that you felt it was really so different in the first 50 chapters. I mean, I do love the series...but I've always felt the ending was rather obvious. Probably as far back as when the blonde tsundere with a piece of toast in her mouth landed on top of the MC in the first chapter. Or maybe even further back..if you read the one-shot, in which Chitoge was the only female character to even appear. Ok, it seems I rather have to explain it a little bit further. For me, Chitoge actually WAS proper heroine in those 50 chapters, even though I always liked Onodera too. But she was secondary character and I knew it. There was only one promised girl and things were pretty clear and well-developed along the lines of classic love story. The main problem occured when Komi added another layer of backstory with his tale about four keys - at that point he literally created FOUR main heroines. And that's where all problems have started. Not to mention introducing Haru, Paula and another first years certainly didn't help this either. Super_Boom said: Anyways, I'll sum up with this. Nisekoi isn't a perfect manga...it has more than its share of problems, and Komi definitely deserves flack for a lot of his red herring and pacing issues. However, the main couple the story is written around is not one of these issues. It's one thing if the story sets out to accomplish something, and completely subverts this theme along the way....that type of fault lies with the author. However, if the story sets out to do something, and the reader expects something else, only for the author to continue with his original plan? I'm sorry...but that type of misunderstanding likes entirely...100% with the audience. Yes, but then it author's responsibility to not put those false expectations on readers. I think we can all agree Komi did the opposite all the time. You know, as a reader I understand that only one heroine can win, no problem here. But what I want then is satisying conclusion and meaning for every other heroine. So far, I only got one for Ruri and she's not even in the main cast. All other arcs just left me frustrated with how things developed - Yui was just unnecessary for this series, Marika's (way too) lengthy arc was a joke and Tsugumi's denial/acceptance felt flat for me. Well, maybe Haru's conclusion wasn't half-bad as it ended on positive note but I've simply never liked when heroines are giving up of their love in favour of someone else (the same applies to Tsugumi and mentioned Minori or Kawashima in Toradora). And regarding Onodera - i think it's really bad for her if you are teasing her confession for 200+ chapters and then you let her say it while MC is unconscious. And this is even worse as Raku had already realized she loves him a long time ago (by the time she faltered in the hot springs). So there should be nothing that prevents their developement in this matter. Super_Boom said: Really in the end though...you're not forced to like the themes Komi has set out to establish. No manga should have to please everybody. Everytime I hear someone complain about Nisekoi, I always tell them to drop it, even if it is one of my top 3 weekly manga. It's a really a love or hate it series. However...treating it as something inherently flawed because it doesn't achieve the themes you enjoy? That's absolutely a selfish way of thinking. The thing is I love those characters because if anything Komi knows how to make them likeable. That's why I'm still following this manga on and on. And I bet that's the case for all other people that are criticizing it. It's just that I don't like some developements in overall story. Also, with some 200+ read chapters no way I'm gonna drop this when the end is probably near, let's just say I'm rather curious how this will wrap up to let it go. Still, I was hoping for a lot better developements along the way. I think the main problem with this series is that it got way too popular. And in the process it changed into something else than what was planned for it in the beginning. I wrote my thoughts on this on reddit too, so you may read my post there: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nisekoi/comments/4f8slm/is_komi_in_a_rush_to_end_this_series/d28t336 |
Mich666Apr 20, 2016 3:54 AM
Jake_Dd said: toradora is great, until last 3 episode when suddenly everything feel all over place and abrupt... i don't said the story is exactly same but the plot is basicly same.. closer to the mc is the one that rejected and they will being the shipper... and nope, i pick toradora because it's most popular one for this trope...Kuma said: it's toradora all over again, LMAO... Toradora was awesome really moved me and taught me something. So us this comment bad or good? Also are you implying it'll end the sane way? Although taiga ends up going away to grow on her own, then comes back. Another thing why are minori and yuigahama the same? Has yuigahama been done away with in the Light novels? Cause at the end of season 2 she's still going strong as a love interest. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Mich666 said: I also think that was the original plan but as time went those motives faded away and I certainly doubt this conflict will ever take place. I mean, look at an example in this last arc - Chitoge's disappearance could possibly fire some hostilities between both gangs (I was hoping for it), yet its members were just running around in despair. That's why I think at this point they are there only as part of the comedy and I would say this theme had wasted its potential in this series. That's fair...that's why I'd like to wait and see. I'll be a bit dissapointed if that potential is wasted, but I'll accept that there are other ways to handle the ending. I still believe Raku and Claude's fight will need to conclude, since shonen law dictates an interrupted fight can't stay that way (even if this isn't a typical shonen obviously). Ok, it seems I rather have to explain it a little bit further. For me, Chitoge actually WAS proper heroine in those 50 chapters, even though I always liked Onodera too. But she was secondary character and I knew it. There was only one promised girl and things were pretty clear and well-developed along the lines of classic love story. The main problem occured when Komi added another layer of backstory with his tale about four keys - at that point he literally created FOUR main heroines. And that's where all problems have started. Not to mention introducing Haru, Paula and another first years certainly didn't help this either. I think I agree that's a negative part of the story, though it's not something I was ever as critical of, because the Reverse Romeo/Juliet plot was what truly drew me into it in the first place. Although Komi has been adding red herrings left and right throughout the story, I never felt like it detracted from the main theme, which was Raku and Chitoge's gradual development into a real couple. So yes...red herrings aren't something I can defend...but I think it's something that matters more depending on who you are or why you're reading. It's why I acknowledge Nisekoi is far from a perfect manga, even if it is one of my absolute favorites. Yes, but then it author's responsibility to not put those false expectations on readers. I think we can all agree Komi did the opposite all the time. You know, as a reader I understand that only one heroine can win, no problem here. But what I want then is satisying conclusion and meaning for every other heroine. So far, I only got one for Ruri and she's not even in the main cast. All other arcs just left me frustrated with how things developed - Yui was just unnecessary for this series, Marika's (way too) lengthy arc was a joke and Tsugumi's denial/acceptance felt flat for me. Well, maybe Haru's conclusion wasn't half-bad as it ended on positive note but I've simply never liked when heroines are giving up of their love in favour of someone else (the same applies to Tsugumi and mentioned Minori or Kawashima in Toradora). And regarding Onodera - i think it's really bad for her if you are teasing her confession for 200+ chapters and then you let her say it while MC is unconscious. And this is even worse as Raku had already realized she loves him a long time ago (by the time she faltered in the hot springs). So there should be nothing that prevents their developement in this matter. So here's my thought on this, and it kinda ties into what I said earlier. I honestly don't think false expectations were placed, as the main theme has always stood out for me, regardless of whatever has been teased along the way. To me...and I suppose different people may see this differently, the quality of writing drastically changes depending on who the arc is being written around. For example, Onodera's character arcs might be cute and fluffy, but overall, I've never had a real sense of attachment to them, and something has always felt...contrived about them in general. Meanwhile, switch to something like Raku and Chitoge's fight during the first Fall Festival, the Hana arc, or the recent Majikoi arc, and suddenly it feels like I'm reading an entirely different manga. Particularly the first...honestly only a few scenes have topped their first "serious" fight in terms of raw emotion. Like it or hate it...I think it's clear that Komi definitely puts more work into the arcs surrounding his heroine than anything else in the story. Some might look at this as a negative...but it's honestly why I simply care more about those arcs in the first place. I think the main problem with this series is that it got way too popular. And in the process it changed into something else than what was planned for it in the beginning. I wrote my thoughts on this on reddit too, so you may read my post there: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nisekoi/comments/4f8slm/is_komi_in_a_rush_to_end_this_series/d28t336 I think I can agree with that. Personally, looking at the one-shot, I think it's clear that Komi never really intended to write a harem, the original plot was always a (mostly) vanilla love story between Raku and Chitoge. In a way, I do feel like the story would have benefited with less heroines, but I also feel like the overall comedy benefited from having a larger cast as well. I suppose it's a bit of a trade off from the author's perspective. He doesn't have as much experience writing harems, which is why a lot of your complaints exist....but if he stayed the course entirely with only one love interest, he likely would have had another Double Arts on his hand...and we as readers we would never have been able to read this in the first place. It's why I accept the harem as a necesity...even if I feel the main romance between the male and female lead is the real draw of the series. Anyways, I didn't realize you were a commenter on the Reddit. I actually posted in that same thread...though maybe you already realized that. I'll keep an eye out for your posts from now on. ;) |
| A bit over the top to america because a high school love.... Still that face at the end, priceless. |
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SilverBlossom said: How can you say Chitoge's and Raku's relationship is really 'true' though? Of course Raku would feel a certain familiarity and pleasantness with Chitoge and know her on a personal level; no girl has had nearly as much time and opportunities with Raku as Chitoge has had. If Onodera went on that many dates with Raku, I'm pretty sure they'd be really close by now. Imo, Chitoge's relationship with Raku is based on circumstance and not really love, so it's kind of unfair to say Chitoge goes best with Raku when she has literally been favoured the most throughout the whole series. How can you say it ISN'T true? Raku and Chitoge drive each other crazy a lot but they still want to be together....if THAT'S not love, I don't know what is.... Saying it's based on "circumstance" and not "love" doesn't make any sense. In their case, that love blossomed from those circumstances. If Raku went through the same type of events with other girls, there's no guarantee he'd fall in love with those other girls; hell, we've already been shown that, haven't we? Onodera and Raku have spent plenty of time alone together and not A DAMN THING happened because they don't have the right chemistry.....because they can't even talk to each other. It's a relationship that just plain doesn't work. And if Onodera hasn't done much to make Raku like her, you could say the same for Chitoge. She's pretty much the one needing to be saved all the time, What are you talking about? Chitoge saves and helps Raku just as much as he saves and helps her. She's the one who found the locket the first time, she's the one who fixed his amnesia, she's the one who is always pushing him forward when he has a hard time making decisions (unless she for some reason, isn't there). She is there for him a hell of a lot more than Onodera who was too much of a limp noodle to even visit him in the hospital. Opportunities for Raku to save Chitoge had to be created in the beginning so she would begin to see him as a real man...because she didn't at first. Unless it's a situation where she's really scared, Chitoge's quite capable of handling herself. |
ChiibiApr 21, 2016 10:01 AM
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| Okay I'm like reading that manga since 2014 and if Chitoge and Raku don't end up together I will go back in my weeb period and cry all over it___ I mean, I think that there is chance that Onodera is a promise girl but yet Chitoge can be that girl too as well..? IDK IT'S TOO COMPLICATED And even If Raku said that that thing would not have much effect on his decission, I think it will__ a lot___ |
SilverBlossom said: Yes, if you spent that much time with another person, naturally, you would be closer to one another. Not if you can't really communicate. Raku and Onodera don't communicate. They stand side by side, blushing and saying nothing....most of the time. That may or may not be love, that wasn’t really the point I was trying to make. I’m just saying, you can’t assume Onodera’s and Raku’s love was ‘fake’ simply due to the fact that they were not as comfortable around each other. I'm not saying it's fake because they're not comfortable around each other. I'm saying it's fake because they barely know each other. And also, they’ve liked each other since middle school; if you have liked someone for that long, and your feelings STILL haven’t changed, I’m pretty sure that’s love too Nah. Their feelings didn't change because plot. And they can talk to each other, it just takes time; take the chapter where Raku was stuck in Onodera’s room during the storm- they eventually warmed up to each other. For the AMOUNT of time it takes them, the world could end before either one made a step forward. XD Um… I don’t know what you’ve been reading, but Chitoge has been helped by Raku way more times than she has helped him; I don't know what YOU'VE been reading, but I don't think so. the romeo and Juliet arc What? Chitoge was the one helping RAKU out with that. She didn't need saving of any kind. She had to be Onodera's understudy, remember? Fyi, Onodera does visit Raku in the hospital; please reread the chapter before making claims like that. That one time Ruri set it up so she could be alone with Raku and she pussied out as ALWAYS. But Chitoge certainly isn't afraid to be alone with him at least. |
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| Is it true that Nisekoi will end in 3 chapters?? If that is true, I know the reason why Nisekoi have to end in a rush way. If you completed Bakuman, you know the reason, right?? Probably Nisekoi popularity went downhill and Jump Editor in chief decided to end it sooner to replace it with new serialization. I never thought Chitoge is in America O_O 3.4/5 |
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Chiibi said: For the AMOUNT of time it takes them, the world could end before either one made a step forward. XD You can't honestly mean this, right? It was Onodera's boldness when she asked Raku for a kiss during beach trip night that made Chitoge realize there is something like love in the first place. And there were other failed attempts. It's really not fault of her character that Komi doesn't have balls to let her be heard by Raku. And another thing to consider is perception of arranged marriages in Japan this series tries to criticize. It has been big political topic over last few decades. Many young people there claims its leftover of the past era and marriages out of obligation become less and less popular there. And if Raku is to end with Chitoge it would only mean that this series is indirectly telling it's okay. Which is certainly not an ending many young Japanese would be happy with. |
Barely. Anyway, it's too late. Is that really a requirement for love though? Of course it is. tsugumi and haru barely knew Raku too yet they still fell in love with him. I don't really think of their feelings as actual love, more like crushes. And I think the only reason they crushed on him was because he was the first boy in their lives they even interacted with. lol Yeah but I don't get why onodera gets so much flak for this but chitoge doesn't Why? Because Onodoodoo is claimed to have this ridiculous crush on Raku for years and she hasn't done crap about it. Chitoge didn't even understand that she was in love for a while; didn't fall immediately or anything, but once she understood that she did, she at least communicates with him and goes out of her way for him. No, I'm talking about beforehand, when chitoge was the cause of all the trouble, treated raku like crap, yet still required him to apologise first before she could stop wallowing in her own depression and be in the play. That wasn't "helping". Raku REALLY really hurt her feelings back then so yes, he owed her that apology. By 'pussied out' I'm assuming you mean that she didn't do anything romantic? That's true, but I don't see chitoge doing anything special in her alone time with raku either. You don't necessarily have to "do something romantic" to get closer to someone. All you have to do is support them and talk to them and maybe comfort them or try to make them happy. Chitoge does all of that. Onodera is always running away or staying quiet. You can't honestly mean this, right? With 100% sincerity. It's really not fault of her character that Komi doesn't have balls to let her be heard by Raku. It IS her fault that she is so boring, Raku fell asleep talking to her. Because so would I. XD And if Raku is to end with Chitoge it would only mean that this series is indirectly telling it's okay. Lol what? How? What's okay? To criticize arranged marriages or to not? Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with Raku or Chitoge. If you think this series is trying to "indirectly tell" you anything, you're likely reading way too much into it. |
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SilverBlossom said: uhh what? why is it too late? it's still character development no matter how late it is It's too late for her and Raku to get involved now. She waited too damn long. wow I'm pretty sure they knew themselves well enough to understand what they were feeling. They didn't. Tsugumi had to interrogate everyone she knew. And Haru lived in denial. um, first of all, using ridiculous names for the characters does not help your argument one bit. Who said it "helped"? XD I do it cause I hate her. Besides, it's a perfect name for her. Second of all, at least onodera has TRIED to confess. Several times in fact. It's not her fault Komi keeps shutting her down every time. Chitoge hasn't even attempted it. Not even once. And you call onodera out for 'not doing crap about anything?' Yes, Chitoge HAS attempted it. Yes, Onodera doesn't do crap about anything. She is such a wuss. are you serious??? so chitoge physically abuses him, insults him, and says she hates him like a billion times, and he isn't allowed to say he doesn't want to be in a relationship with her? When she says she hates him, she doesn't really mean it. It's tsunderese. And then, she even had the audacity to slap raku simply because he reiterated what she had been saying all along? sorry but chitoge was just being a immature and selfish brat who couldn't even take a dose of her own medicine. Have you ever been told by the person you like that they hate you and would never want to be with you? It f*cking hurts. Hurts way more than a little slap to the face. ok Onodera definitely does not just 'stay quiet'. She does most of the time. |
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To confess, dur. yes but the fact is, haru lived in denial AND still reached the same conclusion. tsugumi interrogated everyone AND still reached the same conclusion. Even though they didn't want to, they had to accept it because they realised that was the only word for it. That's pretty much because the Japanese don't differentiate between actual love and what amounts to schoolgirl crushes. They use "koi" and "suki" for both. The really serious kind of love like "I want to lay my life down for you" type is referred to as "ai". I've only seen it used in shoujo manga though. lol, do you have the maturity of a two year old? No, and funny, I don't see you attacking everyone who uses "Shitoge". I wonder why that is.....? If you're going to make statements with no backing whatsoever, then there's no point taking this further. I can't.....the manga is waaaaaaaay too friggin long so it'd take forever to find examples. But I'm certainly NOT the only person who thinks she's a goddamn DOORMAT. uhh ok. So should we just excuse everything chitoge does because its 'tsunderese' as well? I don't like it when she beats Raku up or punches him. There, happy? lol But she made it clear SO MANY times that she doesn't like raku. how on earth is raku to know that she suddenly likes him now? he's not a damn mind reader. why are you even blaming raku for this? chitoge should've just faced the consequences from her own actions without blaming anyone else. They were both in the wrong. But Raku IS dense. He should have read the atmosphere better. |
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Chitogexraku said: To continue, other fans of nisekoi:false love may establish the thought of chitoge and raku's relationship as "forced" but in reality it's been about raku and chitoges relationship from the beginning. All evidence points to chitoge. If we travel back to chapter 199 of the manga, he clearly states that he has never felt that way (hard heartbeat or the pleasantness) when with the other promised girls. He was just having a boner. |
| I am better than you. |
Malighos said: Chitogexraku said: To continue, other fans of nisekoi:false love may establish the thought of chitoge and raku's relationship as "forced" but in reality it's been about raku and chitoges relationship from the beginning. All evidence points to chitoge. If we travel back to chapter 199 of the manga, he clearly states that he has never felt that way (hard heartbeat or the pleasantness) when with the other promised girls. He was just having a boner. God Bless you lol. |
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