hikky said: Charliehsv said: anthem said: sitha said: anthem said: Lol they're retarded! xD (the people that's actually intrested in it). Why don't they just go to the site and read it there? Are they so bad in english? From my experience it's quite rare to find a Japanese person who is proficient in English, not knowing multiple languages is hardly retarded. Yes but english should be standard for modern countries like japan! They start study it in 7th grade (which is way too late!). To study and to actually learn something don't seem to be the same thing in japan. Imagine trying to learn japanese because you're forced to by the educational system with a teacher who isn't a japanese native in a surrounding where the immediate necessity of you knowing that language is absolutely nonexistant. I sure as hell wouldn't learn much given those circumstances either... But yes, of course they should start to learn English much earlier, but that's a fault of the educational system, not because the people are "retarded". Actually, they have 1 non-native and 1 native teacher in many English classrooms over there, I believe. There's no excuse for the failure of the Japanese to learn English (Given the money and classroom hours put into it, I'm not saying I care if they learn English), but no, it isn't because the students are retarded, it is because the curriculum is absolute shit and the students don't study on their own time. It's the same reason American students never tend to learn any useful level of Spanish or French even though they may take 4-6 years in middle and highschool. Learning earlier might help, but it's not the answer IMO. People would need to be willing to study on their own and there would need to be more actual exposure to the real, natural English language. "This is a pen." or "私達DREAMING行こうぜGO!” in some random song is not cutting it, you know? I guess that the educational systems vary too much depending on how much foreign languages are used and/or needed. For example, here in Europe everyone that's nopt over 50 knows English. Because EU is pretty much a "single country with states that have different cultures" (actually a quote from a program about the EU) we have to communicate, thus learning English and French as much as possible and applying it directly during classes (by correspondence, reading articles, etc.) In Japan they need as much English as Americans need French. There is not a direct need to use a different language, therefore they don't care too much (I suppose). Still, I think learning Chines or Arabic would be much more useful than learning English. |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
hikky said: Learning earlier might help, but it's not the answer IMO. People would need to be willing to study on their own and there would need to be more actual exposure to the real, natural English language. "This is a pen." or "私達DREAMING行こうぜGO!” in some random song is not cutting it, you know? I couldn't agree more. Back in those days when I was still a student, my fellow classmates were always complaining about the total uselessness of most of the things we were taught, hence making them bored and loose motivation. I mean, okay, vocabulary is indeed important but spending days and days working on ecomonic texts taken from the press is not really going to help us if we have to go to, for instance, the UK. In the end, most of my friends knew a lot of precise vocabulary about economics (fear the power of the vocabulary sheets to know by heart) but they would still be unable to ask for their way on the street, order something in a restaurant or just follow a simple conversation.(Which can become quite a problem once you're actually in an English-speaking country). Btw, I was talking about French wonderful educationnal system. French people are said to be bad at learning language and I guess I know where it comes from. I think I was saved from this because I liked English to begin with, thus learning it by myself. |
ladyxzeus said: hikky said: Charliehsv said: anthem said: sitha said: anthem said: Lol they're retarded! xD (the people that's actually intrested in it). Why don't they just go to the site and read it there? Are they so bad in english? From my experience it's quite rare to find a Japanese person who is proficient in English, not knowing multiple languages is hardly retarded. Yes but english should be standard for modern countries like japan! They start study it in 7th grade (which is way too late!). To study and to actually learn something don't seem to be the same thing in japan. Imagine trying to learn japanese because you're forced to by the educational system with a teacher who isn't a japanese native in a surrounding where the immediate necessity of you knowing that language is absolutely nonexistant. I sure as hell wouldn't learn much given those circumstances either... But yes, of course they should start to learn English much earlier, but that's a fault of the educational system, not because the people are "retarded". Actually, they have 1 non-native and 1 native teacher in many English classrooms over there, I believe. There's no excuse for the failure of the Japanese to learn English (Given the money and classroom hours put into it, I'm not saying I care if they learn English), but no, it isn't because the students are retarded, it is because the curriculum is absolute shit and the students don't study on their own time. It's the same reason American students never tend to learn any useful level of Spanish or French even though they may take 4-6 years in middle and highschool. Learning earlier might help, but it's not the answer IMO. People would need to be willing to study on their own and there would need to be more actual exposure to the real, natural English language. "This is a pen." or "私達DREAMING行こうぜGO!” in some random song is not cutting it, you know? I guess that the educational systems vary too much depending on how much foreign languages are used and/or needed. For example, here in Europe everyone that's nopt over 50 knows English. Because EU is pretty much a "single country with states that have different cultures" (actually a quote from a program about the EU) we have to communicate, thus learning English and French as much as possible and applying it directly during classes (by correspondence, reading articles, etc.) In Japan they need as much English as Americans need French. There is not a direct need to use a different language, therefore they don't care too much (I suppose). Still, I think learning Chines or Arabic would be much more useful than learning English. Exactly. Because it's like that only the students who have an actual interest in the language and have it as a hobby will actually be motivated to study more than what's needed to pass the exams. It's the same like in all the other large non Englishspeaking nations such as Italy, France or Spain. One thing though....I can't really agree with that "Everyone below the age of 50 can speak English in Europe". I think you'd be hardpressed to find many proficient English speakers in many of the eastern and southern European countries, especially in the more rural areas. That's just my personal expierience though (I've family in rural Italy, that's why :P) |
I know young people from every part of Europe due to Mr. Erasmus and to travel checks and my experience says... Every young person knows English and when they don't know they know "gestures and talking very loud" (always works) Who does not know English knows French (yiff yiff yiff). Certainly I'm not referred to really remote rural areas, where it can be hard to find people who know how to write. I'm too much of an urban person. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: I know young people from every part of Europe due to Mr. Erasmus and to travel checks and my experience says... Every young person knows English and when they don't know they know "gestures and talking very loud" (always works) Who does not know English knows French (yiff yiff yiff). Certainly I'm not referred to really remote rural areas, where it can be hard to find people who know how to write. I'm too much of an urban person. Yup, almost all young people most definately know English.(Even though it might be heavily accentuated XD) Haha, it's not like it's that rural either, but as a city kid I just label it as such :P. It's more like a....provincial capital or smoething. Still most people there don't know much English at all. |
ladyxzeus said: In Japan they need as much English as Americans need French. There is not a direct need to use a different language, therefore they don't care too much (I suppose). Still, I think learning Chines or Arabic would be much more useful than learning English. I'd have to disagree with this. A typical American will almost never come in contact with a French person who does not speak English, unless they go to France. A Japanese person is fairly likely to come in contact with English speakers, even in Japan, who may not speak Japanese. Not to mention that English is simply a useful language no matter where you live in the globe. If there was a worldwide universal language, it would be English. French, not so much. So while you could say English is an actual useful skill for a Japanese person to have, I agree that it's nothing they need to know. I could see Chinese (Although still definitely not more than English, actually I believe English will suffice in any Chinese business situation anyway, and on a basis of immigrants in their own country, Korean would be slightly more useful than Chinese), but why would Arabic be at all useful for a Japanese person? |
Charliehsv said: One thing though....I can't really agree with that "Everyone below the age of 50 can speak English in Europe". I think you'd be hardpressed to find many proficient English speakers in many of the eastern and southern European countries, especially in the more rural areas. That's just my personal expierience though (I've family in rural Italy, that's why :P) GERMANY *cough* Although in more touristic areas they do speak some. Anyway, to get to the chase, It's not surprising alot of people have difficulties with English in Japan. PS. Dubbing of english movies in Japan sounds funny |
hikky said: ladyxzeus said: In Japan they need as much English as Americans need French. There is not a direct need to use a different language, therefore they don't care too much (I suppose). Still, I think learning Chines or Arabic would be much more useful than learning English. I'd have to disagree with this. A typical American will almost never come in contact with a French person who does not speak English, unless they go to France. A Japanese person is fairly likely to come in contact with English speakers, even in Japan, who may not speak Japanese. Not to mention that English is simply a useful language no matter where you live in the globe. If there was a worldwide universal language, it would be English. French, not so much. So while you could say English is an actual useful skill for a Japanese person to have, I agree that it's nothing they need to know. I could see Chinese (Although still definitely not more than English, actually I believe English will suffice in any Chinese business situation anyway, and on a basis of immigrants in their own country, Korean would be slightly more useful than Chinese), but why would Arabic be at all useful for a Japanese person? I was not referring only to Japanese people learning other languages, but China as eventual super potence and arabic countries as oil donors should be talked to in their own languages. =p And English is not that universal. Around here, for example, it was only give importance 10 years ago or something... Before that it was only French. It really depends but I suppose that in Japan normal people don't really come across English as much as "we" would like to. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| :( this thread turned into srs bsns. I want to make love to Windy〜〜〜ッ！ イヤッホォォ アーッ！ ＞windy It is possble to play because the work it tomoprrou． ..loving in Japan when it comes.. イヤッホォォ アーッ！ haha i told them i had to leave because i had an essay to write. so sweet. @ E-mouse - I am enjoying this immensely. ^_^ |
| Windy will shatter their dreams... TT^TT |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
Japanese being bad at English Oi, oi. I know that Japan requires learning some English in high school (I think), but it tends to be easily forgotten since it's rarely useful in their everyday life. I assume Europe does the same, but tends to be much better at it - because it's the unofficial 'international' language of the region, and moreso than it is the rest of the world. Hell, the concentration of different languages in the region tends to encourage multilingualism in Europe a hell of a lot more than the rest of the world. Plus, there's a big difference online between Japanese and most other languages: the internet in Japan is thriving all on its own, but there's relatively little, say, specifically Polish internet content. For much of the world, there's a lot more motivation to practice and learn English online, since there's less choice of how much content you can find without it. In Japan, there's a HUGE network of existing sites exclusively for the language, so there's little motivation to go through the trouble. It's a pity, but it's very understandable. And yes, I know this is redundant. |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
| in Japan, English teacher boldly say "Prease shit down" when class start beacause English pronunciation is too complicated to Japanese people in comparison with Japanese launguage (by the way, most of teachers haven't gone abroad to study) vowel is only 5 (A-I-U-E-O), pronunciation of "R or L", "V or B" is same, and You only need to pronounce along by Hiragana or Katakana Instead, Japanese need to remember Kanji which is very abundant (at least, they need to read 2000). generally, Reading is over 2. （火 is hi & ka, 水 is sui & mizu...） and these respectively have acceptation. therefore, It's hard that Japanese study English, or Western people study Japanese for that matter, grammar is quite different too... |
Hana-kei said: in Japan, English teacher boldly say "Prease shit down" when class start beacause English pronunciation is too complicated to Japanese people in comparison with Japanese launguage (by the way, most of teachers haven't gone abroad to study) vowel is only 5 (A-I-U-E-O), pronunciation of "R or L", "V or B" is same, and You only need to pronounce along by Hiragana or Katakana Yeah.. my mom is Japanese and she's been living in the US for about 30 years. Even now, she still has trouble with pronunciation sometimes :P |
Vagabond said: ladyxzeus said: 20 cm is not too bad though (I already caught 13) Wtf? 20 centimeters is rockin' as long as you're not horribly lacking in the girth area. Thirteen, on the other hand, would fall in the lower end of the average. Though, maybe the dude makes of for it in girth that people would kill for. Global average is around 14-15 IIRC This arguement about "Well they learn some English in school" reminds me of the fact that Basic French is part of the curriculum here from Grade 4-8... I can hardly read, write, speak or understand French at all. It's not something I tried remember so I didn't remember it. Sad that in Canada, the two official languages are English and French but I know more Japanese then French >_>; |
 |
E-mouse said: Oi, oi. I know that Japan requires learning some English in high school (I think), but it tends to be easily forgotten since it's rarely useful in their everyday life. I assume Europe does the same, but tends to be much better at it - because it's the unofficial 'international' language of the region, and moreso than it is the rest of the world. Hell, the concentration of different languages in the region tends to encourage multilingualism in Europe a hell of a lot more than the rest of the world. Plus, there's a big difference online between Japanese and most other languages: the internet in Japan is thriving all on its own, but there's relatively little, say, specifically Polish internet content. For much of the world, there's a lot more motivation to practice and learn English online, since there's less choice of how much content you can find without it. In Japan, there's a HUGE network of existing sites exclusively for the language, so there's little motivation to go through the trouble. It's a pity, but it's very understandable. And yes, I know this is redundant. I agree. Japanese are lacking of chance to use English, fortunately or not. That's because many Japanese think, "We don't need to learn English". But I think internet can provide chances to use English, like this thread. Perposterone said: Dont' laugh when this Japanese man tries to speak English. LOL, I like gaki no tsukai XD |
| Sometimes there are people that knows more than you think... |
 心に宿る魂の声が聞こえる... |
Perposterone said: <youtube clip> I tried so hard... but I laughed when he said "Venvito"... and then "ten... tenten. tenten one tenten two..." But when he got to thirty, and then said "tententen"... damn, I would've lost so much. I managed to hold it in when he got to 100 though lol. I feel bad for that one guy that laughed everytime |
|
| I tried making a Japanese guide to using MAL: Guide to using the forum: http://lrn2japan.blog126.fc2.com/blog-entry-2.html Guide to registering an account: http://lrn2japan.blog126.fc2.com/blog-entry-1.html Still kind of incomplete..but I wonder if with even with a guide like this, Japanese people will actually start using MAL. |
| Well I can understand their reluctance... making a nicovideo account is a bother too. |
|
Youtube Oh, that poor guy. |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
| well, is there no Japanese in MAL? I don't know because I'm newbie... |
2chvipper said: well, is there no Japanese in MAL? I don't know because I'm newbie... maa, tamani There occasionaly is |
CanadaAotS said: Perposterone said: <youtube clip> I tried so hard... but I laughed when he said "Venvito"... and then "ten... tenten. tenten one tenten two..." But when he got to thirty, and then said "tententen"... damn, I would've lost so much. I managed to hold it in when he got to 100 though lol. I feel bad for that one guy that laughed everytime I lost in 45 seconds |
| yeah this video is great, I've watched it several months ago ... and I lost also at the "tenten"-part^^ |
FiurgeistFeb 12, 2009 2:24 AM
| Video's a classic, it's so fun. I'd have lost instantly....especially since it's just so hard to hold back in situations where you have to be quiet xD |
sniW said: No, it's english only. Often, sites like this only have one language for advertising purposes. Hana-kei said: maa, tamani There occasionaly is Oh, I meant Japanese people, not language... |
2chvipper said: sniW said: No, it's english only. Often, sites like this only have one language for advertising purposes. Hana-kei said: maa, tamani There occasionaly is Oh, I meant Japanese people, not language... There are a couple of Japanese people, but we hardly notice they are Japanese. And some of them can also be lying about the place where they live because they are sad and sick weeaboos. ºvº |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
ladyxzeus said: okay, thanks for the tip. ^_^2chvipper said: sniW said: No, it's english only. Often, sites like this only have one language for advertising purposes. Hana-kei said: maa, tamani There occasionaly is Oh, I meant Japanese people, not language... There are a couple of Japanese people, but we hardly notice they are Japanese. And some of them can also be lying about the place where they live because they are sad and sick weeaboos. ºvº |
2chvipperFeb 12, 2009 4:48 AM
To E-mouse, sniW and people on MAL thread. I‘m administrator"FA32" of this blog. The attempt concerning the exchange of this blog and MAL thread failed. Because a troll came to this blog. Maybe, I think that someone posted the address of this blog on 2ch. And the troll wrote a large amount of comments that you become unpleasant. I restricted IP of the troll on this blog. However, it is not possible to restrict it completely. We cannot have a chance to do justice to one's correspondencediscuss by vandalism. I won’t translate “The Japanese are Watching You” thread anymore. I erased “The Japanese are Watching You” translated thread (article and comments) in order not to give someone further trouble. I apologize if you became unpleasant because you saw this blog. (╬ ಠ益ಠ) !! |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
| I'd just like to say a big thank you to FA32. The past week or so has a been a lot of fun with us translating back and forth. It's unfortunate that trolls came in and ruined it, but I'm sure that a lot of us here are very grateful for your blog posts having brought otakus from around the world closer together :D |
| Aw, that's just sad. The whole translation "exchange" and so forth was so interesting! Thanks to all the translators and FA32 for taking it this far! :D |
E-mouse said: To E-mouse, sniW and people on MAL thread. I‘m administrator"FA32" of this blog. The attempt concerning the exchange of this blog and MAL thread failed. Because a troll came to this blog. Maybe, I think that someone posted the address of this blog on 2ch. And the troll wrote a large amount of comments that you become unpleasant. I restricted IP of the troll on this blog. However, it is not possible to restrict it completely. We cannot have a chance to do justice to one's correspondencediscuss by vandalism. I won’t translate “The Japanese are Watching You” thread anymore. I erased “The Japanese are Watching You” translated thread (article and comments) in order not to give someone further trouble. I apologize if you became unpleasant because you saw this blog. (╬ ಠ益ಠ) !! Chyeah that's the right expression xD Anyway, thanks to FA32 for giving us such a great load of mutual fun. I guess 2ch is not as civilized as I thought to =p Even with that, please keep contact (and eventually translating?) because it is being fun to have such a random "cultural interchange" |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| Ah well it was fun while it lasted. I'm quite sure most here can ignore the trolls though, unfortunately you get suprisingly used to them if you use the internet a lot :x I will still keep checking the page for other threads they translate and see the comments :D |
| I have a question! How do you say "troll" in Japanese? Tu~Ro~Ru? <-- Cuz that's cute. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| I thought 2chan had its own term for it? I was surprised they knew the western term for it. Well, or maybe Google just knew the exchange. |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
| NOOOO!!! How sad! I'm glad I got to take part in it while it lasted, though. <3 |
| This can't be happening T_T |
E-mouse said: To E-mouse, sniW and people on MAL thread. I‘m administrator"FA32" of this blog. The attempt concerning the exchange of this blog and MAL thread failed. Because a troll came to this blog. Maybe, I think that someone posted the address of this blog on 2ch. And the troll wrote a large amount of comments that you become unpleasant. I restricted IP of the troll on this blog. However, it is not possible to restrict it completely. We cannot have a chance to do justice to one's correspondencediscuss by vandalism. I won’t translate “The Japanese are Watching You” thread anymore. I erased “The Japanese are Watching You” translated thread (article and comments) in order not to give someone further trouble. I apologize if you became unpleasant because you saw this blog. (╬ ಠ益ಠ) !! Nothing pure and beautiful ever lasts. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I'm trying to give him a reply back at the yukkuri thread, but the comment system keeps giving me errors, and I'm not sure what to do about it. sniW, care to help me decipher this: "本文が英数字のみの場合は書き込めません。" I hope he hasn't banned foreign IPs... |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
E-mouse said: I'm trying to give him a reply back at the yukkuri thread, but the comment system keeps giving me errors, and I'm not sure what to do about it. sniW, care to help me decipher this: "本文が英数字のみの場合は書き込めません。" I hope he hasn't banned foreign IPs... Hmm, that's kind of a weird error. It says "If the text is only alphanumeric, you aren't allowed to post a comment." So in other words, maybe try replying with Japanese characters only? |
E-mouse said: To E-mouse, sniW and people on MAL thread. I‘m administrator"FA32" of this blog. The attempt concerning the exchange of this blog and MAL thread failed. Because a troll came to this blog. Maybe, I think that someone posted the address of this blog on 2ch. And the troll wrote a large amount of comments that you become unpleasant. I restricted IP of the troll on this blog. However, it is not possible to restrict it completely. We cannot have a chance to do justice to one's correspondencediscuss by vandalism. I won’t translate “The Japanese are Watching You” thread anymore. I erased “The Japanese are Watching You” translated thread (article and comments) in order not to give someone further trouble. I apologize if you became unpleasant because you saw this blog. (╬ ಠ益ಠ) !! NOOOOO! I ENJOYED BEING SOMEWHAT MORE KNOWN IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY! |
| sad |
| Hmph. Well, hopefully Google Translate won't mangle it too much. Any idea what the 2chan parallel for "fanboy" would be? As in, the windy fanboys. |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
| Google Cache FTFW! I guess I should say that I think it's all there. Don't really have a clue what's going on on the site. |
 |
E-mouse said: Any idea what the 2chan parallel for "fanboy" would be? As in, the windy fanboys. I give 3 examples because I don't know "fanboy" has bad meanings or not... 1)~~好き(liker/lover) 2)~~信者(worshipper) 3)~~厨(retard) |
2chvipper said: 2)~~信者(worshipper) 3)~~厨(retard) Mix these two and you got it. |
|
| Despite the moment of despair, it looks like FA32 is carrying on: http://mistranslationdialy.blog49.fc2.com/blog-entry-69.html http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=67734 I haven't seen that, so maybe I'll keep quiet. Though the comments make me think someone's confused about the phrase "Just fucking google it?" |
| FA32's postmonkey and lost Touhou fanboy. ROW ROW F(ry |
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