New
Mar 18, 2015 9:26 PM
#201
chat77 said: I didn't get to finish editing it yet :(DoctorCaim said: There's casual, enthusiast, and elitist Casuals watch anime purely for enjoyment and treat anime like a genre instead of a medium because they're not really adept with the medium of anime itself. Elitists have a high understanding anime, watch anime not just for enjoyment but for its artistic merit, and are fully adept in knowledge towards anime. However, they think on a hivemind level and look down on others of different tastes, especially casuals. Enthusiasts are more or less casuals with a wider array of interests in the medium or basically "elitists" without the pretense and sense of self-importance. They understand that entertainment in general is subjective and won't ride your nuts to watch some nuance shit like Kemonozume or Perfect Blue or something. I sort of agree but also disagree at the same point.Enthusiasts are more concerned with the enjoyment that they get,I believe.Elitists more often than not don't stop before they have critically analysed every minute detail,despite enjoying the particular show. Shitposta said: Like thisEnthusiasts are more or less casuals with a wider array of interests in the medium or basically "elitists" without the pretense and sense of self-importance. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:26 PM
#202
7starkiller99 said: I don't think we need to strictly adhere to the logic of formal debate here though. The relative standards on the issue is relevant, because there's obviously a cultural and value dissonance to the whole matter - why does Japan continue to struggle with the issue? Why does the world decry it so one-sidedly in comparison? It's certainly relevant to note that these events have remained in mainstream thought where other similar atrocities are forgotten or ignored.Takuan, you do understand that the previous argument you just gave is a fallacy :/ Tu quoque. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:26 PM
#203
Shitposta said: Takuan_Soho said: Zergneedsfood said: Obviously, it's perfectly fine to say that you love the subculture; almost everyone here enjoys it including myself, but I think it still might be a stretch to cross apply one's experience with anime and paint the rest of Japanese culture in broad strokes. No disagreement, however my association with Japan is a tad stronger. I lived there for several years, my wife is from there, I visit there every year, and not to brag too much, but I have found that short of a PhD in Japanese history, my level of knowledge is superior to most Japanese. People have and perhaps should disagree with my opinions, but I have never been accused of being ignorant of them. I paint in broad strokes mainly because that is the level most people operate at (which is not an insult, broad is generally good enough unless you have a particular interest in something), but if you want to get in the weeds, then I am the guy for you. Mention the topic, and lets go weeding! Oh look at you. Bragging about your achievements and feeling that MAL is a great place for you to flaunt yourself even if it means upsetting them with little to no remorse for both "casual" anime fans and people who "appreciate Japan" but also understand that Japanese history has far too many egregious things such as what you decided to take nearly a whole page on. People like you sicken me. I don't get angry on MAL much, but you make me sick. Nico, you've been getting upset recently o.O! |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:27 PM
#204
DoctorCaim said: 7starkiller99 said: You've committed a fallacy as well. Ckan said: Takuan_Soho said: But is there wholesale accusation of the American forces forcing these women into 'sexual slavery'? Isn't that the issue of contention between the wider world and the disputers in Japan?As for the concept of "comfort women". How about all the Japanese prostitutes the US army authorized while occupying Japan (and which continues pretty much to today)? How about the Filipino prostitutes? What is it somehow okay when OUR government authorizes the exploitation of OUR servicemen? This of course is not meant to absolve Japan, but people in glass houses should think twice before casting stones. Takuan, you do understand that the previous argument you just gave is a fallacy :/ Tu quoque. AD HOC CESIUM SHIZZLE OBLIVION Lol wha, sir that's quite an interesting point you have there. xD |
7starkiller99Mar 18, 2015 9:31 PM
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:30 PM
#205
7starkiller99 said: Shitposta said: Takuan_Soho said: Zergneedsfood said: Obviously, it's perfectly fine to say that you love the subculture; almost everyone here enjoys it including myself, but I think it still might be a stretch to cross apply one's experience with anime and paint the rest of Japanese culture in broad strokes. No disagreement, however my association with Japan is a tad stronger. I lived there for several years, my wife is from there, I visit there every year, and not to brag too much, but I have found that short of a PhD in Japanese history, my level of knowledge is superior to most Japanese. People have and perhaps should disagree with my opinions, but I have never been accused of being ignorant of them. I paint in broad strokes mainly because that is the level most people operate at (which is not an insult, broad is generally good enough unless you have a particular interest in something), but if you want to get in the weeds, then I am the guy for you. Mention the topic, and lets go weeding! Oh look at you. Bragging about your achievements and feeling that MAL is a great place for you to flaunt yourself even if it means upsetting them with little to no remorse for both "casual" anime fans and people who "appreciate Japan" but also understand that Japanese history has far too many egregious things such as what you decided to take nearly a whole page on. People like you sicken me. I don't get angry on MAL much, but you make me sick. Nico, you've been getting upset recently o.O! I don't take anyone who tries to lead me on to something I don't want to talk about and suddenly brags about his accomplishments (which I even doubt they're real) like he's the most accomplished individual out there kindly. They're opportunists. You think you'd like to be exploited like this? Because I know I don't. And I won't take shit from phony scholars like Mr. Soho. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:32 PM
#206
Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? |
Mar 18, 2015 9:32 PM
#207
Shitposta said: Wow. Nice going, Takuan... Really making this conversation unappealing for me to see in particular. I'll give you an added bonus. I've actually seen posts from weeaboos actually saying dropping the atomic bomb was wrong. Bottom line is, that was the right move to make Japan change as a nation for the complete better. Because of this, I have no sympathy for weeaboos, although that's just one reason why they truly piss me off to no avail and it makes me realize that being KA is far better than what weeaboos dream they'll ever be. But let's not talk about comfort women, please. It really hits close to home since my great great aunt was. Ah, though I may seem a Japanese homer, I will always support Truman's decision to drop both atomic bombs, even though the first nearly killed my future father in law. While I believe I understand WHY Japan did what it did, this doesn't mean I don't understand that there was something pretty sick in Japanese culture that needed to be cut out. However, despite my feelings either way, I do insist on being historically accurate to the greatest extent possible. This returns us to the elitist argument. While being impartial is perhaps impossible (just as being always aesthetically correct is impossible), for me being "right" or "wrong" is not nearly as important as being able to at last argue one's position. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:33 PM
#208
DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been cooked and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Bakemonogatari for its unique art style. |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:34 PM
#209
Mar 18, 2015 9:34 PM
#210
DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Yuru Yuri S3? :( |
Mar 18, 2015 9:34 PM
#211
7starkiller99 said: That is so 2010 thoughBakemonogatari for its unique art style. chat77 said: NoAkame ga Kill anyone? Kagami_Hiiragi said: plzDoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Yuru Yuri S3? :( |
Mar 18, 2015 9:34 PM
#212
chat77 said: DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Akame ga Kill anyone? Nope, it didn't stay with the manga so the elitists already shut it down. Just ask Darklight to explain everything wrong with it. |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:36 PM
#213
Shitposta said: Oh look at you. Bragging about your achievements and feeling that MAL is a great place for you to flaunt yourself even if it means upsetting them with little to no remorse for both "casual" anime fans and people who "appreciate Japan" but also understand that Japanese history has far too many egregious things such as what you decided to take nearly a whole page on. People like you sicken me. I don't get angry on MAL much, but you make me sick. Bragging? Hardly, merely stating a truth. Though before "getting into it with you", I think my last post will be more accepting to your thinking. If you still want to argue with me afterwords, lets trot out the facts and slug it out like humans, rather than sheep. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:36 PM
#214
DoctorCaim said: Ping Pong.Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? |
Mar 18, 2015 9:36 PM
#215
Takuan_Soho said: Shitposta said: Oh look at you. Bragging about your achievements and feeling that MAL is a great place for you to flaunt yourself even if it means upsetting them with little to no remorse for both "casual" anime fans and people who "appreciate Japan" but also understand that Japanese history has far too many egregious things such as what you decided to take nearly a whole page on. People like you sicken me. I don't get angry on MAL much, but you make me sick. Bragging? Hardly, merely stating a truth. Though before "getting into it with you", I think my last post will be more accepting to your thinking. If you still want to argue with me afterwords, lets trot out the facts and slug it out like humans, rather than sheep. Sheep butt heads to fight each other! |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:40 PM
#216
Zergneedsfood said: Shitposta said: :(Really making this conversation unappealing for me to see in particular. I'll give you an added bonus. I've actually seen posts from weeaboos actually saying dropping the atomic bomb was wrong. Bottom line is, that was the right move to make Japan change as a nation for the complete better. It's unfortunate that weaboos have ruined this argument for you, because I think, while the dropping of the bombs was obviously a controversial issue that is still hotly debated today, there are actually a plethora of relevant historical details that made the bombings look completely unnecessary both from a political/military standpoint as well as a moral one. I am by no means saying that dropping the bombs was wrong (though from what I've read there definitely seem to be various signs pointing to how they might not have been completely warranted), but the argument is certainly shared by more than just fanatically historically ignorant weaboos. I'm sure that lots of people would argue against using an atomic bomb. Other types of bombs would've worked just as well, some argue. |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:40 PM
#217
Zergneedsfood said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: The dream.DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Yuru Yuri S3? :( See, everyone will disagree becuz of elitist eyes but Yuru Yuri > LOGH cause of Toshino. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:41 PM
#218
Feaor said: DoctorCaim said: Ping Pong.Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Nah It has to be boring like LOGH to be elitist kek |
Mar 18, 2015 9:41 PM
#219
Takuan_Soho said: Shitposta said: Wow. Nice going, Takuan... Really making this conversation unappealing for me to see in particular. I'll give you an added bonus. I've actually seen posts from weeaboos actually saying dropping the atomic bomb was wrong. Bottom line is, that was the right move to make Japan change as a nation for the complete better. Because of this, I have no sympathy for weeaboos, although that's just one reason why they truly piss me off to no avail and it makes me realize that being KA is far better than what weeaboos dream they'll ever be. But let's not talk about comfort women, please. It really hits close to home since my great great aunt was. Ah, though I may seem a Japanese homer, I will always support Truman's decision to drop both atomic bombs, even though the first nearly killed my future father in law. While I believe I understand WHY Japan did what it did, this doesn't mean I don't understand that there was something pretty sick in Japanese culture that needed to be cut out. However, despite my feelings either way, I do insist on being historically accurate to the greatest extent possible. This returns us to the elitist argument. While being impartial is perhaps impossible (just as being always aesthetically correct is impossible), for me being "right" or "wrong" is not nearly as important as being able to at last argue one's position. You're missing the point. You tried to lure me into a conversation about Japanese history, something that I understandably, as a Korean American cannot really embrace, but it also wasn't the main topic of the thread, and it further lead to some equally upsetting comments about imagining what my great great aunt went through. She was a human being too, I can't tolerate any age old Japanese war policies and that sir, is why, while I'm willing to forgive the Japanese for what they did, since it's age old and who gives a fuck really, it's 2015, bringing it up and having it being conversed in a thread about anime elitists vs anime casuals isn't going to make me happy. Understand that I have boundaries that can be pushed. Usually I don't get upset on the Internet, but bringing up stuff like this, especially to me, that won't be rubbed the right way by myself unfortunately. I for one, appreciate Japanese culture and while it's not as highly enriched as yourself, I'm all for learning more. I'm also learning the language and while it's not perfect like yours may be, I'm all for learning more. I have several friends who I go to college with who are International Students from Japan, they're probably among the nicest people in my group of college friends. One of my friends offered me to stay at her place if I ever came since I've known her long enough. We don't even talk about anime, we're just really good friends who have known each other long enough it's been like 2-3 years now. Please, don't try to change things on me. I will learn things myself, and perceive things myself. Sorry if I called you out earlier, I take back everytning I said. It's just that I don't really take kindly to braggarts. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:42 PM
#220
PROUD TO BE AN ELITIST |
Mar 18, 2015 9:42 PM
#221
7starkiller99 said: chat77 said: DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Akame ga Kill anyone? Nope, it didn't stay with the manga so the elitists already shut it down. Just ask Darklight to explain everything wrong with it. It's quite difficult to portray sarcasm online....:P |
Mar 18, 2015 9:44 PM
#222
chat77 said: 7starkiller99 said: chat77 said: DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Akame ga Kill anyone? *said with a sarcastic laugh* Nope, it didn't stay with the manga so the elitists already shut it down. Just ask Darklight to explain everything wrong with it. (/sarcasm) It's quite difficult to portray sarcasm online....:P Same right? |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:44 PM
#223
7starkiller99 said: Shitposta said: Takuan_Soho said: Shitposta said: Wow. Nice going, Takuan... Really making this conversation unappealing for me to see in particular. I'll give you an added bonus. I've actually seen posts from weeaboos actually saying dropping the atomic bomb was wrong. Bottom line is, that was the right move to make Japan change as a nation for the complete better. Because of this, I have no sympathy for weeaboos, although that's just one reason why they truly piss me off to no avail and it makes me realize that being KA is far better than what weeaboos dream they'll ever be. But let's not talk about comfort women, please. It really hits close to home since my great great aunt was. Ah, though I may seem a Japanese homer, I will always support Truman's decision to drop both atomic bombs, even though the first nearly killed my future father in law. While I believe I understand WHY Japan did what it did, this doesn't mean I don't understand that there was something pretty sick in Japanese culture that needed to be cut out. However, despite my feelings either way, I do insist on being historically accurate to the greatest extent possible. This returns us to the elitist argument. While being impartial is perhaps impossible (just as being always aesthetically correct is impossible), for me being "right" or "wrong" is not nearly as important as being able to at last argue one's position. You're missing the point. You tried to lure me into a conversation about Japanese history, something that I understandably, as a Korean American cannot really embrace, but it also wasn't the main topic of the thread, and it further lead to some equally upsetting comments about imagining what my great great aunt went through. She was a human being too, I can't tolerate any age old Japanese war policies and that sir, is why, while I'm willing to forgive the Japanese for what they did, since it's age old and who gives a fuck really, it's 2015, bringing it up and having it being conversed in a thread about anime elitists vs anime casuals isn't going to make me happy. Understand that I have boundaries that can be pushed. Usually I don't get upset on the Internet, but bringing up stuff like this, especially to me, that won't be rubbed the right way by myself unfortunately. I for one, appreciate Japanese culture and while it's not as highly enriched as yourself, I'm all for learning more. I'm also learning the language and while it's not perfect like yours may be, I'm all for learning more. I have several friends who I go to college with who are International Students from Japan, they're probably among the nicest people in my group of college friends. One of my friends offered me to stay at her place if I ever came since I've known her long enough. We don't even talk about anime, we're just really good friends who have known each other long enough it's been like 2-3 years now. Please, don't try to change things on me. I will learn things myself, and perceive things myself. Sorry if I called you out earlier, I take back everytning I said. It's just that I don't really take kindly to braggarts. Actually, both of you are kind of being sidelined from the original question: Are you a casual or an elitist? :/ Answers please? How about we let them handle it mr? ;) |
Mar 18, 2015 9:45 PM
#224
Kagami_Hiiragi said: 7starkiller99 said: Shitposta said: Takuan_Soho said: Shitposta said: Wow. Nice going, Takuan... Really making this conversation unappealing for me to see in particular. I'll give you an added bonus. I've actually seen posts from weeaboos actually saying dropping the atomic bomb was wrong. Bottom line is, that was the right move to make Japan change as a nation for the complete better. Because of this, I have no sympathy for weeaboos, although that's just one reason why they truly piss me off to no avail and it makes me realize that being KA is far better than what weeaboos dream they'll ever be. But let's not talk about comfort women, please. It really hits close to home since my great great aunt was. Ah, though I may seem a Japanese homer, I will always support Truman's decision to drop both atomic bombs, even though the first nearly killed my future father in law. While I believe I understand WHY Japan did what it did, this doesn't mean I don't understand that there was something pretty sick in Japanese culture that needed to be cut out. However, despite my feelings either way, I do insist on being historically accurate to the greatest extent possible. This returns us to the elitist argument. While being impartial is perhaps impossible (just as being always aesthetically correct is impossible), for me being "right" or "wrong" is not nearly as important as being able to at last argue one's position. You're missing the point. You tried to lure me into a conversation about Japanese history, something that I understandably, as a Korean American cannot really embrace, but it also wasn't the main topic of the thread, and it further lead to some equally upsetting comments about imagining what my great great aunt went through. She was a human being too, I can't tolerate any age old Japanese war policies and that sir, is why, while I'm willing to forgive the Japanese for what they did, since it's age old and who gives a fuck really, it's 2015, bringing it up and having it being conversed in a thread about anime elitists vs anime casuals isn't going to make me happy. Understand that I have boundaries that can be pushed. Usually I don't get upset on the Internet, but bringing up stuff like this, especially to me, that won't be rubbed the right way by myself unfortunately. I for one, appreciate Japanese culture and while it's not as highly enriched as yourself, I'm all for learning more. I'm also learning the language and while it's not perfect like yours may be, I'm all for learning more. I have several friends who I go to college with who are International Students from Japan, they're probably among the nicest people in my group of college friends. One of my friends offered me to stay at her place if I ever came since I've known her long enough. We don't even talk about anime, we're just really good friends who have known each other long enough it's been like 2-3 years now. Please, don't try to change things on me. I will learn things myself, and perceive things myself. Sorry if I called you out earlier, I take back everytning I said. It's just that I don't really take kindly to braggarts. Actually, both of you are kind of being sidelined from the original question: Are you a casual or an elitist? :/ Answers please? How about we let them handle it mr? ;) Let's. |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 9:47 PM
#225
EliteTaste said: PROUD TO BE AN ELITIST Elitist spotted. The yang avatar with Reinhard as a profile pic. He also has Texhnolyze in his favorites. Definitely fits the criteria of what makes an elitist anime: [*]Boring as balls [*]Ugly ass artstyle [*]Politics [*]Some sci-fi shit |
Mar 18, 2015 9:56 PM
#227
I'm actually one of the four primetime horsemen kings. |
Mar 18, 2015 9:56 PM
#228
YorozuyaGinSan said: I'm actually one of the four primetime horsemen kings. We know |
Mar 18, 2015 9:56 PM
#229
DoctorCaim said: EliteTaste said: PROUD TO BE AN ELITIST Elitist spotted. The yang avatar with Reinhard as a profile pic. He also has Texhnolyze in his favorites. Definitely fits the criteria of what makes an elitist anime: [*]Boring as balls [*]Ugly ass artstyle [*]Politics [*]Some sci-fi shit I want to disagree with this one's logic, but he has Pyramid Head in his sig, so...this guy is officially THE SHIT... :) |
Mar 18, 2015 9:58 PM
#230
KingYoshi said: Pyramid Head be a manifestation of your +1 bruhDoctorCaim said: EliteTaste said: PROUD TO BE AN ELITIST Elitist spotted. The yang avatar with Reinhard as a profile pic. He also has Texhnolyze in his favorites. Definitely fits the criteria of what makes an elitist anime: [*]Boring as balls [*]Ugly ass artstyle [*]Politics [*]Some sci-fi shit I want to disagree with this one's logic, but he has Pyramid Head in his sig, so...this guy is officially THE SHIT... :) |
Mar 18, 2015 9:58 PM
#231
[quote=DoctorCaim]I'm referring mainly to the shit they did to China. The Rape of Nanking for example, is barely mentioned in history books in Japan[/'quote] This is simply not true, the vast majority of Japanese history books do mention it. I think this article is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry-enough/ The simple, and sad, truth is that the truth behind Nanjing cannot be known because no on really WANTS to know the truth. The Japanese don't, the Chinese certainly don't, the West could care less (outside of it allowing them to ignore their own crimes). On Nanjing as an isolated occurrence, I withhold judgement because I have a feeling the truth is that the Nationalist mercenaries started the assault when the leadership fled, and the Japanese should be faulted for participating in it after the fact. For me, I think the clearer sign of Japanese guilt comes with the biological warfare they used in northern China (though, even there, there is that unfortunate incident with Joseph Needham that clouds the issue, the Chinese government invented a US biological attack on China for propaganda reasons, and I challenge anyone to argue that if they were willing to lie once, they would be willing to lie twice is not a valid argument). This should not be taken as any absolution for Japan. I completely believe that Japan could have done both, I am merely stating that the facts are more complicated and this fact should be recognized as a fact. DoctorCaim said: unless you go barebones deep into the subject. And payments don't mean shit really. Financial reparations may seem like a reasonable apology on a piece of paper but it will never, ever repay for human loss. Especially genocide. Also, the US authorized prostitution, they didn't force women into prostitution like the Japanese did to the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the Chinese Humm, if payments don't mean shit, then shouldn't "economic" payments to prostitutes also "not mean shit"? There are plenty of ways of "forcing" people to do things, starvation as an alternative is a pretty compelling way. Does it really reflect positively on a government that tacitly condones exploitation while perhaps not "forcing" it. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:07 PM
#232
DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? from what ive seen i guess its HxH 2011 |
Mar 18, 2015 10:11 PM
#233
DoctorCaim said: KingYoshi said: Pyramid Head be a manifestation of your +1 bruhDoctorCaim said: EliteTaste said: PROUD TO BE AN ELITIST Elitist spotted. The yang avatar with Reinhard as a profile pic. He also has Texhnolyze in his favorites. Definitely fits the criteria of what makes an elitist anime: [*]Boring as balls [*]Ugly ass artstyle [*]Politics [*]Some sci-fi shit I want to disagree with this one's logic, but he has Pyramid Head in his sig, so...this guy is officially THE SHIT... :) I mean, your post showed such brilliance, I had to bring it back to light. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:15 PM
#234
Takuan_Soho said: I disagree, I feel like China wants to remember. The Chinese are still angry with Japan and will bring it up whenever a conflict comes around (especially with the current island conflict going on). Politically and economically, China will also want to bring this subject up to leech more reparations as well as gain an edge in other land rivalriesDoctorCaim said: I'm referring mainly to the shit they did to China. The Rape of Nanking for example, is barely mentioned in history books in Japan This is simply not true, the vast majority of Japanese history books do mention it. I think this article is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. http://nation.time.com/2012/12/11/why-japan-is-still-not-sorry-enough/ The simple, and sad, truth is that the truth behind Nanjing cannot be known because no on really WANTS to know the truth. The Japanese don't, the Chinese certainly don't, the West could care less (outside of it allowing them to ignore their own crimes). On Nanjing as an isolated occurrence, I withhold judgement because I have a feeling the truth is that the Nationalist mercenaries started the assault when the leadership fled, and the Japanese should be faulted for participating in it after the fact. For me, I think the clearer sign of Japanese guilt comes with the biological warfare they used in northern China (though, even there, there is that unfortunate incident with Joseph Needham that clouds the issue, the Chinese government invented a US biological attack on China for propaganda reasons, and I challenge anyone to argue that if they were willing to lie once, they would be willing to lie twice is not a valid argument). This should not be taken as any absolution for Japan. I completely believe that Japan could have done both, I am merely stating that the facts are more complicated and this fact should be recognized as a fact. Takuan_Soho said: Well that depends on whether you see prostitution in a negative light or not. I personally don't see any negatives with prostitution at all, it's a service that requires money. It's consensual as well, woman offers her body for money, customer pays money for body. DoctorCaim said: unless you go barebones deep into the subject. And payments don't mean shit really. Financial reparations may seem like a reasonable apology on a piece of paper but it will never, ever repay for human loss. Especially genocide. Also, the US authorized prostitution, they didn't force women into prostitution like the Japanese did to the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the Chinese Humm, if payments don't mean shit, then shouldn't "economic" payments to prostitutes also "not mean shit"? There are plenty of ways of "forcing" people to do things, starvation as an alternative is a pretty compelling way. Does it really reflect positively on a government that tacitly condones exploitation while perhaps not "forcing" it. Comfort women are different though. They were forced into their role. Comfort women are victims of sexual slavery. Prostitutes are in the role of consensual business. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:15 PM
#235
EliteTaste said: PROUD TO BE AN ELITIST Go back to Hummingbird. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:16 PM
#236
Shitposta said: Sorry if I called you out earlier, I take back everytning I said. It's just that I don't really take kindly to braggarts. No offense was either taken nor meant. Everyone has their own personal experiences and in having them it means that they have different viewpoints and of course these viewpoints were lead to different interpretations, all of which are perfectly valid. To return to the thread topic for an example. Earlier I said that it wasn't the matter of the actually viewpoint that was important, but rather the ability to at least argue the viewpoint that was important. People can, and indeed should be able to disagree based upon their personal experiences. Being an "elitist" doesn't mean that one's opinion is necessarily right, but rather that they should be able to 1) defend their position, and 2) understand, if not actually accept, opposing arguments. To return to the WWII topic. Japan was a colonial power, as such people who actually suffered from it cannot of course be dismissed. My argument is more directed at people from say the US or Europe who likewise engaged in colonial exploitation, but somehow forget this fact when addressing Japan (or for that matter China, who exploits Tibet while complaining about receiving the same treatment from the Japanese). As I said before, I am all for a proper accounting, but proper means acknowledging all the facts, not just some of them. To move off of any subject we have discussed, I would direct you to my comments on the Virgin Witch Maria thread. I believe I am pretty consistent on my desire to demand historical truth regardless of my personal beliefs. Again while achieving "truth" may be impossible, I firmly believe that there are degrees of truthfulness that can be achieved, and we should fiercely defend them. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:18 PM
#237
"Elitist" is usually used as an insult, only an autismo would specifically call himself/herself an elitist. |
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream!" - George W. Bush |
Mar 18, 2015 10:26 PM
#239
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Zergneedsfood said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Yuru Yuri S3? :( See, everyone will disagree becuz of elitist eyes but Yuru Yuri > LOGH cause of Ayano.. or Himawari & Sakurako.. or Rise You may be on to something here. |
WrongPriestMar 18, 2015 10:29 PM
Mar 18, 2015 10:32 PM
#240
Neither really. I have no problem watching mainstream/popular anime or more obscure ones, I just like what I like, simple as that. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:36 PM
#241
DoctorCaim said: I disagree, I feel like China wants to remember. The Chinese are still angry with Japan and will bring it up whenever a conflict comes around (especially with the current island conflict going on). Politically and economically, China will also want to bring this subject up to leech more reparations as well as gain an edge in other land rivalries But that is not remembering. That is exploiting. Personally I do not find it a coincidence that China only seemed to "remember" Nanjing after they butchered their own civilians in Tienanmen Square. Directing internal rage at an external opponent is far older than Orwell's 1984, and this is what China is doing. An inconvenient truth is that when Japan normalized relations with China in the 1970's they offered reparations to the Chinese government, Mao refused them. In that the current Chinese government still claims their mantle of power from Mao (to their pity), they should at least live up to his prior ruling. But of course that would be inconvenient (as is the fact that what China is doing in Tibet is just as bad). DoctorCaim said: Well that depends on whether you see prostitution in a negative light or not. I personally don't see any negatives with prostitution at all, it's a service that requires money. It's consensual as well, woman offers her body for money, customer pays money for body. If the country has developed economically enough where a women has alternatives to prostitution, then I agree a free woman has every right to engage in it; however where there are no real alternatives for a woman outside of prostitution, then I would have to say that while I don't blame the women, I certainly do blame the system. To use an obvious example. The TV and movie MASH had the heroes go off to Japan to enjoy the pleasures of the Geisha. A simple fact is that all Geisha were sold (due to economic conditions) to the brothels by their parents, there was no "choice" in the matter. How is this really different? Is it different merely because the agents were 1 step removed? Piss poor morality if that were the case. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:36 PM
#242
WrongPriest said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: Zergneedsfood said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: The dream.DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Yuru Yuri S3? :( See, everyone will disagree becuz of elitist eyes but Yuru Yuri > LOGH cause of Ayano.. or Himawari & Sakurako.. or Rise You may be on to something here. Sakurako is actually best girl simply because she's Sakurako. Sakurako > LOGH |
Mar 18, 2015 10:46 PM
#243
Kagami_Hiiragi said: WrongPriest said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: Zergneedsfood said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: The dream.DoctorCaim said: Speaking of which, what's the newest elitist anime to ponder over now that LOGH has been flipped and fried like a 5 star frog in Paris? Yuru Yuri S3? :( See, everyone will disagree becuz of elitist eyes but Yuru Yuri > LOGH cause of Ayano.. or Himawari & Sakurako.. or Rise You may be on to something here. Sakurako is actually best girl simply because she's Sakurako. Sakurako > LOGH ^ But Himawari slightly > Sakurako but hell those two make the show. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:49 PM
#244
This thread is a thrill to read |
Mar 18, 2015 10:50 PM
#245
KurobaHime said: This thread is a thrill to read I digress. People of MAL, please do not read all preview 264 comments. You will be bored :( |
A great protagonist once said, "It's only overpowered if you can't return the favor!" |
Mar 18, 2015 10:51 PM
#246
7starkiller99 said: KurobaHime said: This thread is a thrill to read I digress. People of MAL, please do not read all preview 264 comments. You will be bored :( You aren't hardcore enough for this stupidity |
Mar 18, 2015 10:52 PM
#247
KurobaHime said: 7starkiller99 said: KurobaHime said: This thread is a thrill to read I digress. People of MAL, please do not read all preview 264 comments. You will be bored :( You aren't hardcore enough for this stupidity You damn elitist. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:54 PM
#248
KurobaHime said: 7starkiller99 said: KurobaHime said: This thread is a thrill to read I digress. People of MAL, please do not read all preview 264 comments. You will be bored :( You aren't hardcore enough for this stupidity >stupidity Stupidity is people kidding themselves over a cartoon medium that isn't meant to be taken seriously. |
Mar 18, 2015 10:58 PM
#249
C'mon guys lets keep this on topic. Shitposta said: ^ But Himawari slightly > Sakurako but hell those two make the show. |
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