Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? Episode 23 Discussion

Inugirlz said:


There's no need for me to argue with you. I'm confident and comfortable in my opinion that Shun & Co. are annoying, unlikeable, far too ignorant and yes, I said it CRINGE. But you're entitled to your opinion.

I won't deny that Sophia's attitude was unbecoming as well tho. But I know who is worse.

groudonvert said:


You're right, Shun is everything you said, but he was created like that.

TuMaiEn4 said:
Horrible episode. Made very little sense, a drag to watch because u already know how everything will play out mixed with the fact that the human cacs still suck and 0 spider kun. Jesus christ im so close of saying screw it and go read the LN to see if this clusterfudge makes sense.

Inugirlz said:


Created like that in-universe or you mean written like that by the author? Because for sure the latter is true. Don't know how we're meant to like such a generic (in a poorly done way) "hero" character.

groudonvert said:


Written to be an unlikable character. He's a generic Hero (in the sense of Hero of course), but he wants to act as a Hero when he doesn't understand what it means to be a Hero in this particular world in the first place. Every time he thinks about important things, he sees them with the eyes of our world. With Oka (in a less degree) he's the only character that thinks like that everything has to be like it was in his own world. In LN he even told to Katia that he hoped that she didn't change from their past lives.

If you excuse me, it's not that generic as you say it is. Do you know important characters like that in other Isekai ?

Inugirlz said:


No you're right most stories don't have the same type of hero character he is. I mean moreso that it feels like he's suppose to be some kind of hero archetype with his wanting to help/save everyone mind frame and fair play style.

Abredon said:


I've seen a LOT of isekai with a main character like that (smartphone being a recent one) - always saving everyone near him, no bad consequences for making otherwise stupid decisions, etc.

Shun is acting as if he was a Gary Stu, but he's in a world where acting like that would normally get him killed. The ONLY reason he's still alive is that Kumoko's side doesn't want to kill the reincarnations, and has been working REALLY hard at pulling punches.

groudonvert said:


Well if Sophia didn't play with him like that she could finish the fight way earlier too. Wrath instantly knock the two adventurers like if they were nothing to deal with.

And in the meantime, even if they don't want to kill him the demon side is responsible of everything bad that happened to him.

Abredon said:


Not true - Hugo's first attack was entirely Hugo.

The rest was indeed a result of the demons and Church uniting against the Elves. They enlisted Hugo as a way to bring the Empire's army into the fight on their side.

They specifically acted to provide Shun with ways to escape death.
And Shun refused to learn from the lessons they taught.
He still believes that a pure heart MAKES your side right, and that that plus determination will always win the day - the Standard bad Isekai and bad Cowboy Movie trope that the Hero is automatically on the good side and always wins.

But he is in a world where just being the Hero doesn't mean you are right, and the good guys don't always win.
The person responsible for the worst of Shun's problems is...Shun himself.

MunaXs said:
And that is the true face of the "hero" and his friends. If they have the advantage they attack 1vs1, otherwise they attack 6vs1. They are garbage

Red_Ranger_Wien said:
I am so glad this show ends next week. The story being told incredibly poorly I could forgive but the god awful animation never improved and in some cases it actually got worse, alternating between whatever outdated version of Unreal Engine they're using for the CG cutscenes and literal slideshows for the rare moment of actual 2D art.

Fact is, Aoi Yuuki carried this show with a stellar performance and every other aspect sucked.

Red_Ranger_Wien said:
groudonvert if this was a good adaptation of the story then the story thus far just isn't very good. It's an incredibly long, drawn out grinding session followed by an incredibly banal, shallow pastiche of JRPG tropes with Shun and friends.

KuHaKu36 said:
The human side of this fight, is just completely uninteresting. Also, that CGI makes me want to gouge my eyeballs out of my head.

groudonvert said:


That incredibly banal JRPG stuff you're talking about is actually the worldbuilding, introduction of new characters (specially the elves and the Demon Lord groups) that the Kumoko grinding session lacks. The prolepsis actually show you that the story is not just an empty page of a grinding spider.

And if you ask a manga only, he would answer you there's no story in Kumo Desu Ga Nani Ka, since the manga doesn't adapt the actual story and skip every thing that is not Kumoko POV.

Red_Ranger_Wien said:


You can do worldbuilding and character introduction well. There isn't some binary choice to be made here. Just because it has world building doesn't mean it isn't heavily flawed.

groudonvert said:


And how can you do that when you start your story with a grinding spider in a labyrinth ? If there's no side character, you can't tell the story you want. Especially if you work on your world as Okina Baba did.

Red_Ranger_Wien said:


You can do worldbuilding and character introduction well. There isn't some binary choice to be made here. Just because it has world building doesn't mean it isn't heavily flawed.

Red_Ranger_Wien said:

You could start by making the secondary protagonist and his supporting characters enjoyable to watch.

Shimura27 said:
Well it has bad animation lately, so it ruins most parts of being good adaptation.


But about the story i doubt that. This is kinda unique compared to other Isekai anime i have watched for along time.

groudonvert said:


Well it's the problem of the anime, the LN made them way better to follow. For being able to put 5 volumes in 1 season, the anime had to cut the entire volume 1 and most of volume 3 of Shun's contents.

Besides that, even if the characters are not that great to follow, most of the important characters are introduced in his timeline (the only one that I think about who's not introduced first in Shun's timeline is Dustin, but I can be wrong). Most notably : Ariel, Sophia and Potimas.

Maruseru93 said:
thats it the anime gets from me a 6/10 more does it not deserve i mean robots in a fantasy world? thats so stupid

SkyLETV said:
Whaaaaaaaaat... Why the fuck do elves have a modern command center... and mechas?!!!!!!

especially sophia who was back outside and inside ugly ass hell is still ugly inside

TheCeeJayz said:
Ah yes, it would only make sense that the Elves' secret weapon in a fantasy world would be ARMED MECHAS.

But seriously though, why the sudden genre change?

ArdRaeiss said:
Well, now it looks as if they really are trying to finish the story in the one season. By dropping most of the story, huh. Especially the "what happened to Sophia, where Rage came from, how White appeared and where is Kumoko, how the 3-sided-battle Maou-Kumo-Julius went, what are these machines and why elves have them" parts...
Too bad. It deserved a better adaptation.

JosephDrybrough said:
yeah but i also find shuns justice and we got to keep fighting even though we cant win bullshit really fucking annoying

Inugirlz said:


There's no need for me to argue with you. I'm confident and comfortable in my opinion that Shun & Co. are annoying, unlikeable, far too ignorant and yes, I said it CRINGE. But you're entitled to your opinion.

I won't deny that Sophia's attitude was unbecoming as well tho. But I know who is worse.

groudonvert said:


You're right, Shun is everything you said, but he was created like that.

svet said:
p.s. no extensive rant about stereotypical-isekai-hero(LOL) male character this time since it would just be a repeat of the same things from my previous comments (cos he hasn't changed at all)