HanamiDango said: Roevhaal said: Yes, more monster girl representation. Hell an entire cast full of lesbian monster girls would be amazing. I completely agree with your statement!  Yes, it's very unfortunate that there's such a huge bias for human characters and when they aren't the non-human features are rather subtle, hell sometimes they even have human ears along with their animal ears, as if it's just some cosplay. Very sad. |
| I don't need for the rest of the world to be accurately depicted in anime. But I would appreciate it, if it is depicted in some way. Forceful isn't how I'd like it to be represented, because it might ruin my overall enjoyment. But I would appreciate it if it's done in a natural way. If that's possible. And with it being the 2020s, I think it can be done. |
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| Hahahaha. What I care most from an anime it's to have a strong link with thematic. It is action? Give me action with good animation. It is romance? Gimme more strong feelings for the story. It is comedy? Gimme good scenes. It contains story from another country? Gimme their tradition in relationships with thematic. |
kuwaptNov 8, 2022 3:11 AM
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| Honestly, no. I just enjoy an anime if it's good. I don't really get into the nitty-gritty or go in-depth into a review. It's just how it is for me. It's just a piece of entertainment |
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Do you want to see more forced representation in anime? Gee, I wonder which side of the argument OP is on. lol |
| Who are you and why do you show your hostility towards a complete stranger whom you've not once spoken with before. Are you seriously asking to get blocked? Well, if that's what your intent is; to tempt me into throwing hands with someone as lowly and insignificant as you, then i may grant your wish provided you articulate yourself a bit better when trying to spite a person of my wavelength. |
| I only want the japanese protagonist in japanese stuff and white man in white stuff, but im rethinking japanese male after all the isekais, unless they put big man tyrone in there as love rival and do what must be done. |
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DigiCat said: Orange_is_White said: how Disney was going to use Star Wars to "push an agenda." This complaint actually only came up big time with ep. VIII, with the director even admiting and promoting the movie as pushing an agenda Orange_is_White said: Death Note's caught flak after it's trailer release because L was black, plain and simple Yes, because L was race swapped, race swapping is considered a cheap copout to gain representation without putting the work in to create a new character Personally i don't really care if an actor is playing a character that's a different race frm their own, so long as they do a good job in that role, good recent example is Aldis Hodge (black) as Hawkman (white) in Black Adam, he was awesome in that role and looked great in the Hawkman suit Most people are fine if the actor doesn't look exactly like the character, but they want the actors to get cast for their talent, not for their skin color What's happening with some modern movie productions is they need to fill a quota of x amount women, x amount black people, ecc., that's basically telling black people "we're reserving roles for you becuse your talent can't compete with white people", that is offensive AF L's raceswappwing got the trailer flooded with bigotry and comments had to be cleaned because of the hate speech and racism. Most of the other characters switched races, too but I didn't see "cracka" popping up in 1/2 the comments. I'm sure someone said that it was white washing, but they white actors didn't get nearly the same hate as L. Regardless, if people are supposedly upset at bad writing, then why was the hate seemingly based on the based on the race of the cast for the yet-to-be-released film? The actor for L wasnt some nobody either. A simple glance at Wikipedia shows that he had plenty of experience and had received a nomination for an award based on one of his roles before Death Note. Why do you say that he was picked for being black? Why couldn't the selection have been made because he showed himself to be skilled based on past performances? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaKeith_Stanfield Raptors0verlord said: in short: people were complaining about the way these stuff where advirtized which didn't paint the writting in posotive light That's my point. People say they are open to diversity if the writing is good, but then they hate on pretty much anything that isn't white male-centric because of an ad, rather than the after playing the game or watching the show. It seems like to me that those folks feel like the writing can be good only when all the major characters are white. Looking at TLOU2, for example, there was a huge hubbub about a woman with muscles causing people to think she might be trans, and the thought she could be trans made everyone super de duper angry. As the leaked script later showed, said character wasn't trans. So why do people now say they don't like the game because of its writing, when the outrage occurred before anyone knew the quality of the writing and had nothing to do with the writing itself? eidoleon said: If we frame "diverse" as a bad thing that can only be "forced" do you really want homogeneous casts of characters? Well, I guess some people do. That's the feeling I get with a lot of these diversity discussions. Peeps be swearing they arent bigots - they just don't want diversity shoved down throat. Except they consider every single non-white or non-cis character to be forced in. I remember when the new Wolfenstein game came out some folks were annoyed that you were fighting alongside such a diverse group of characters, but like, yeah, of course you are. The Nazis wanted to kill every non-white person, so duh you're fighting alongside minorities. If a black person fighting Nazis is still "woke" or "forced diversity", then in what scenario could a non-white person appear in media without it being forced? |
KittenCuddlerNov 8, 2022 7:44 AM
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Orange_is_White said: A diverse cast I don't like = Forced!That's the feeling I get with a lot of these diversity discussions. Peeps be swearing they aren't bigots - they just don't want diversity shoved down throats. An ideology I don't like in media = Agenda! I guess it's a good way to convince yourself you aren't a hateful human being. |
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-Shizuna- said: What I constantly hear about Japanese animation and video-games from English-speaking part of the internet is that it needs more "representation", but I don't really get why. Is it all boils down to overbearing American politics and so-called colonial mentality when more powerful country expects smaller one to indulge the first ones sensibilities? I'm a slav and I never expected Japanese creators to include characters of my ethnicity/culture in their entertainment. Actually, it would be super weird to do so in the first place, considering Japan is 99% Asian, so most of their content stems from their everyday lives and author's/fans personal interests. I also don't buy this "relatability" argument. Again, I'm a slav male, but it never stopped me from playing asian-looking girls in MMORPGs and games like Skyrim, or self-incert myself into Japanese VN protagonists. I don't need, neither do I expect, characters from a foreign culture to represent "me"... That being said, I have nothing against cultural and racial diversity if it makes sense lore-wise, but to expect every work to have it, let alone force it on creators, is a dystopian shit I'm not a fan of. But anyway, what do you think? Do you want your skin tone/culture/whatever else be represented in anime in a forceful manner? Anime is Japanese made cartoons made primarily for a Japanese audience.Not audiences outside of Japan. So the idea that anime needs to cater to an audience outside of Japan is absurd. |
Orange_is_White said: Why do you say that he was picked for being black? I'm not saying that he specifically got picked just for his race, nor am i doubting his acting ability, but it does happen that even talanted black actors get cast just for the sake of having a black character, and in those cases the characters are usually badly written, and casting someone talented in a badly written role is not to their advantage A good example of having a very talented actress in a badly written role is Moses Ingram as Reva in Kenobi She's a brilliant actress as seen in other projects such as The Queen's Gambit, but her character in Kenobi was written so badly it did her absolutely no favors in showcasing her abilities, i'm sure she did her best with the script and plot she was given, but the bad writing only made her performance seem subpare compare to her other roles And by the way Kenobi was marketed, it makes it look very like she was only picked to show diversity Also you mentioned about TLOU2 ads riling people up, well yes, marketing is a very inportant step at making your product successful, it wasn't Abbey being a woman that annoyed fans, it was that the whole marketing of the game revolved around Abbey being a woman, i mean if the sole reason for not liking a videogame is it has a strong female lead, then why is Tomb Raider (strong female lead videogame) one of the most popular games of all time? Now Abbey being muscular liking a character design is subjective, and i agree making fun of her for potentially being trans is a dick move, but that was not what the majority of complaints were about |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
| I couldn't agree more with what you said. I'm Mexican, do I expect to see my race in a medium made in a country whose population is made up of 99% Asian people-- some of whom have never even seen my race in person? Have I ever cared? Fuck no! I'm here for the stories, settings, characters and these writers' creativity, not for soulless shit that tries to push its political agenda on to viewers. I fuckin' hate what the west is doing, trying to push this all on to their viewers and trading creative freedom along with genuinely good storytelling for this "representation" nonsense in their entertainment; and I also hate what some retards are trying to do to anime and entertainment outside of western media-- trying to impose their worldviews on them. Also, the character comes first, think about their race and whatnot AFTER you're done making your character! Being gay or black doesn't make something a character. As someone who has plans on becoming a writer, I believe this is the best approach if you are aiming for including representation in your stories. I have nothing against the inclusion of diversity, but remember, it isn't a substitute for good writing or characters. Focus on your foundation first, the decorations come after. Also one more thing, I feel like this whole "representation" thing is SUPER dehumanizing. Companies and the like only do it to gain publicity and to try to make themselves look good in the eyes of the masses, they essentially see these minority groups as nothing but bags of money to take advantage of and use as stepping stones, they see them as "its" if you will. |
TheAngryNerdNov 8, 2022 10:52 AM
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Orange_is_White said: Some of those people might just be bigots, but criticizing woke ideology in media isn't bigotry, it's just common sense.That's the feeling I get with a lot of these diversity discussions. Peeps be swearing they arent bigots - they just don't want diversity shoved down throat. Except they consider every single non-white or non-cis character to be forced in. I remember when the new Wolfenstein game came out some folks were annoyed that you were fighting alongside such a diverse group of characters, but like, yeah, of course you are. The Nazis wanted to kill every non-white person, so duh you're fighting alongside minorities. If a black person fighting Nazis is still "woke" or "forced diversity", then in what scenario could a non-white person appear in media without it being forced? |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| The only representation that my culture got is from "monster" and since my country is so unknown i was shocked that we were represented lol, I don't really care since there's nothing crazy or special about our culture |
| I'd rather not get represented by anime or hollywood |
| خ |
| i don't really care about "representation" but different character designs (as long as they aren't forced and make sense for the story) can be really interesting and fun. I think newer anime does this already by creating characters with different body types or are unique looking, unlike some older anime where most characters look similar. it does not matter that much to me anyways as long as i can enjoy the anime. |
my candies:       bonus!:  |
LostSpectre said: Some of those people might just be bigots, but criticizing woke ideology in media isn't bigotry, it's just common sense. So then, why is the presence of any sort of diversity enough to get something declared "woke"? which then causes lots of people, who would also probably say they aren't bigoted, to needlessly dogpile on something because of its "forced diversity". Is it really common sense to do this? how are you supposed to determine genuine creative expression from "forced diversity"? Who exactly is forcing diversity? If a creator wasnt originally going to include a gay character or something, but then after hearing stories of how much seeing themselves represented ment to them, decides to include a gay character, is that forced? If they speak about their thought process in interveiws are they just trying to appeal to a "woke mob"? If they work with an editor who sujests that changing a character's gender might make the story more unique and interesting, and they realize, 'huh yeah, it probably would' and decide to go with it, is that forced? Cause it kinda just sounds like part of the creative process. This is all to say nothing of the fact that its far more common for creators (at least in america, idk how it is in japan, though ive heard anecdotes that imply its not unheard of) to be told to cut queer elements or change characters genders because its "not appealing to the general population". Or to have a harder time getting stuff with more racial diversity to be widely marketed because studios don't believe in it. There are even plenty of examples of americans changing (censoring) gay shit in anime and manga, to ensure that it will sell more. Tokenisim isnt really something i appriciate either, and its obviously a sliding scale if a character can be considered a "token" or "good" repersentation. Even in ""woke"" circles theres a lot of debate about this. Debate that i think is ultimatly kinda pointless in most cases. Ultimatly every character is someones meaningful favorite. Also i think its funny when people claim that tokenisim is why they hate "woke" shit, but also complain that the diversity is being "forced down their throats" when it does play a signifigent roll in the character, you know, the thing that would make the character not be a token is also the thing that makes them "forced". The ultimate point to me is that we have more to gain from not freaking the fuck out every time theres a black person in a pokemon game or a trans character in an isekai or what ever. Wheather the diversity actually has an impact on the story and characters or is just aesthetic, more variation in stories and characters will just provide more avenues for creative freedom. If one works with a large studio they are always going to have to give up some creative freedom. Its litterally how working with other people works. But if people still want to make casts mostly homogeneous (in the "woke catagories") thats fine, litterally no one is actually stopping people from doing that. No one is actually able to stop people from doing that. But some people might choose to spend their time watching stuff that has more diversity over that stuff, and will probably be vocal about why if its something that matters to them. And for some people it does. And people will build off the experiences they had consuming media when they create media. Which is gonna lead to more diversity. |
| The ff community soyjaks are going ape shit since the devs said there will only be white skinned people in 6. Was fucking hilarious. Even yoshi p they were attacking. |
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Kayle_x_Morgana said: The ff community soyjaks are going ape shit since the devs said there will only be white skinned people in 6. Was fucking hilarious. Even yoshi p they were attacking. Lmao, just saw that, absolutely amazing. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
eidoleon said: I didn't say criticizing diversity, which is common in many forms of media, I said criticizing woke ideology, which is not something difficult to spot. LostSpectre said: Some of those people might just be bigots, but criticizing woke ideology in media isn't bigotry, it's just common sense. So then, why is the presence of any sort of diversity enough to get something declared "woke"? which then causes lots of people, who would also probably say they aren't bigoted, to needlessly dogpile on something because of its "forced diversity". Is it really common sense to do this? how are you supposed to determine genuine creative expression from "forced diversity"? Who exactly is forcing diversity? If a creator wasnt originally going to include a gay character or something, but then after hearing stories of how much seeing themselves represented ment to them, decides to include a gay character, is that forced? If they speak about their thought process in interveiws are they just trying to appeal to a "woke mob"? If they work with an editor who sujests that changing a character's gender might make the story more unique and interesting, and they realize, 'huh yeah, it probably would' and decide to go with it, is that forced? Cause it kinda just sounds like part of the creative process. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| I can clearly see that OP has an agenda, but in all honesty, I think that anime could benefit from more representation of more people and cultures beyond Japan so long as their character doesn't feel unnatural or feels like they are there to hit some sort of quota. My Hero Academia includes a transgender character who honestly adds nothing to the arc that she appears in and that character does nothing but die. That isn't meaningful representation, that's just pandering to hit a checkmark. If anime had more characters like Dutch (African American) from Black Lagoon or Scar (based off of Arab cultures) from Fullmetal Alchemist, I think that the medium would really benefit because tasteful depictions of characters from different backgrounds does add more to the world that characters exist in, especially if the characters actually matter to the plot. I know that Japan is a racially homogenous country for the most part and most characters will obviously be based off of Asian people, but there is nothing wrong with having more racial representation of Black, White, Hispanic (technically not a race), or non-Japanese Asian characters in the medium. Do people in this thread seriously think that there are zero foreigners in Japan? It won't taint your cartoons. Though in the case of White characters, there are more depictions of White characters compared to other racial minority groups in Japan, and if they aren't American, then they are Western European/influenced by Western Europeans. Now earlier, I mentioned a transgender character in MHA. I'm not trans, in fact I can be described as a "cis white male", but even I can see that at the moment, the transgender representation in anime could use some work. I think a token character in a manga like MHA, even if it isn't meaningful representation, is still a good start. There also have been plenty of gender neutral characters who have been depicted tastefully across multiple genres as well as a fair amount of positive depictions of homosexual relationships in anime (usually yuri, lets be honest yaoi is not as popular). Just like the case with foreigners, there are definitely transgender people in Japan and they will do something to get their government to recognize them and treat them with dignity. In fact, there are even transgender indie vtubers from Japan. Why deny Japanese transgender people their representation? I don't really see an issue with giving people from minority groups representation just because their identity is different from what is the norm. If anything, giving people representation through placation will prevent them from demanding it with violence and going way further than most of this thread would accept politically. Anime fans are generally just too conservative. |
Dulonkk said: I can clearly see that OP has an agenda, but in all honesty, I think that anime could benefit from more representation of more people and cultures beyond Japan so long as their character doesn't feel unnatural or feels like they are there to hit some sort of quota. My Hero Academia includes a transgender character who honestly adds nothing to the arc that she appears in and that character does nothing but die. That isn't meaningful representation, that's just pandering to hit a checkmark. If anime had more characters like Dutch (African American) from Black Lagoon or Scar (based off of Arab cultures) from Fullmetal Alchemist, I think that the medium would really benefit because tasteful depictions of characters from different backgrounds does add more to the world that characters exist in, especially if the characters actually matter to the plot. I know that Japan is a racially homogenous country for the most part and most characters will obviously be based off of Asian people, but there is nothing wrong with having more racial representation of Black, White, Hispanic (technically not a race), or non-Japanese Asian characters in the medium. Do people in this thread seriously think that there are zero foreigners in Japan? It won't taint your cartoons. Though in the case of White characters, there are more depictions of White characters compared to other racial minority groups in Japan, and if they aren't American, then they are Western European/influenced by Western Europeans. Now earlier, I mentioned a transgender character in MHA. I'm not trans, in fact I can be described as a "cis white male", but even I can see that at the moment, the transgender representation in anime could use some work. I think a token character in a manga like MHA, even if it isn't meaningful representation, is still a good start. There also have been plenty of gender neutral characters who have been depicted tastefully across multiple genres as well as a fair amount of positive depictions of homosexual relationships in anime (usually yuri, lets be honest yaoi is not as popular). Just like the case with foreigners, there are definitely transgender people in Japan and they will do something to get their government to recognize them and treat them with dignity. In fact, there are even transgender indie vtubers from Japan. Why deny Japanese transgender people their representation? I don't really see an issue with giving people from minority groups representation just because their identity is different from what is the norm. If anything, giving people representation through placation will prevent them from demanding it with violence and going way further than most of this thread would accept politically. Anime fans are generally just too conservative. Do you by chance have white guilt? Last I checked Japan was 97% Japanese, 2% other asian and 1%other(the people you care about) I think it is obvious why yuri(and the other shit you are talking about) is more accepted in the neck beard weeb community is they are hot? If you look at western characters and Japanese characters. they are always good looking while western ones are always ugly.... No one wants to watch a ellen page or bruce jennar... |
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| Yeah I want more Canadian representation in anime. I won't rest until our maple syrup-covered hands are all over the medium! In seriousness though, if the mangakas or the staff working on anime want to put in people of different backgrounds it doesn't bother me. It would only be an issue if publishers mandated certain racial or sexual minorities just to have a diverse cast, but I've yet to see that happen so I don't think that's worth worrying about. |
| And at his feet they'll cast their golden crowns When the man comes around. |
LostSpectre said: I didn't say criticizing diversity, which is common in many forms of media, I said criticizing woke ideology, which is not something difficult to spot. "Woke ideology" is a pretty useless term. Every person who uses it has a different deffinition and plenty of people use it to mean "any diversity at all". And people who don't mean that are kinda just giving people who do a smokescreen. The majority people who spend a signifigant ammount of time complaining about "woke ideology" can't give an actual deffinition beyond "diversity I dont like". So like, what do you actually mean by it? How do you determine genuine creative expression from "forced wokeness"? And is it something thats worth spending a signifigant ammount of time on "calling out"? Its pretty easy to call out shallow "tokenizing" representation if you're coming at it from a place of personal understanding. Though even then, not everyone will have the same feelings. There are lots of characters that are very dear to me personally because i love them and see aspects of myself in them that I dont get to see in other characters. But there are also people who would find these characters problematic for various, sometimes valid reasons. And they can have those criticisms and i can still enjoy thise characters. |
eidoleon said: It's not a useless term, it should be evident that my usage of "woke" is mocking the leftist mindset when it comes to social justice. Now, at least personally, it's not the mere idea itself of race/gender swapping a character that's so egregious, it's the ideology behind that. You're right about not jumping to conclusions about a gay character or a gender swap, but at the same time these creators usually aren't shy about stating their intentions and shaming any critics. My issue with their ideology is that it's an overcorrection towards marginalized groups, and I have seen it used many times to enable sexism/racism against "non-marginalized" groups. So, I absolutely think it's worth calling out "woke" ideology in all forms, but yeah, don't trash a show if there isn't a clear agenda behind it. LostSpectre said: I didn't say criticizing diversity, which is common in many forms of media, I said criticizing woke ideology, which is not something difficult to spot. "Woke ideology" is a pretty useless term. Every person who uses it has a different deffinition and plenty of people use it to mean "any diversity at all". And people who don't mean that are kinda just giving people who do a smokescreen. The majority people who spend a signifigant ammount of time complaining about "woke ideology" can't give an actual deffinition beyond "diversity I dont like". So like, what do you actually mean by it? How do you determine genuine creative expression from "forced wokeness"? And is it something thats worth spending a signifigant ammount of time on "calling out"? Its pretty easy to call out shallow "tokenizing" representation if you're coming at it from a place of personal understanding. Though even then, not everyone will have the same feelings. There are lots of characters that are very dear to me personally because i love them and see aspects of myself in them that I dont get to see in other characters. But there are also people who would find these characters problematic for various, sometimes valid reasons. And they can have those criticisms and i can still enjoy thise characters. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| I just want more casual representation of queer characters. I like when characters offhandedly mention their girlfriend or boyfriend and it doesn't take over the plot or anything |
   please recommend me anime with hot girls |
Roevhaal said: Yes, it's very unfortunate that there's such a huge bias for human characters and when they aren't the non-human features are rather subtle, hell sometimes they even have human ears along with their animal ears, as if it's just some cosplay. Very sad. Very sad indeed. There seems to be a lot of yuri fans and a lot of monster girl enthusiasts so why not combine it? Win-win! |
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Yuu_Kanzaki said: Growing up, I thought the whole point of storytelling was to learn about varying perspectives and to try to find common ground with people different from you. It was actually because of that I became infatuated with shoujo. It helped me understand my strong affinity to femininity even as a man. One of my favorite & most relatable characters is an 11 year old girl (Amu Hinamori from Shugo Chara). The best representation is a character you can organically connect to without having to confine them to the role of a sociopolitical tool. That's how you develop empathy & understanding of others while deepening your own self-understanding.As an asian myself I don't understand what's the deal with representation. This is just an example and it's a gross generalization, but why do black people or white people feel the need to be represented in anime or other types of medium? I agree with you, since when does relatability limited by race? There's more to it that that. If someone can relate to a character or a show solely because of its race, then said character or show is shallow imo. Of course, I don't reject expanding the creative potential of anime as a medium. I'm willing to bet a Vinland Saga style anime set in Ancient Africa would be a big hit because it would just be a quality storytelling experience. What doesn't work is taking Vinland Saga, replacing the main characters with token Africans, then saying it's now "more diverse" and better as a result. |
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| All I care about is whether or not something is entertaining. If you ask me people who refuse to watch something because there isn't enough diversity are just being close minded, even though they'd never admit it. Diversity is fine, and I'm not against it, but not everything needs to include every race, sexuality etc to be enjoyed. It's just not necessary. Not to mention it seems very counter to those who claim to "not see race". |
FanofActionNov 9, 2022 12:00 AM
eidoleon said: So then, why is the presence of any sort of diversity enough to get something declared "woke"? Simple, it does not eidoleon said: how are you supposed to determine genuine creative expression from "forced diversity"? By the quality eidoleon said: its far more common for creators (at least in america, idk how it is in japan, though ive heard anecdotes that imply its not unheard of) to be told to cut queer elements or change characters genders because its "not appealing to the general population" To censor their works to sell in china eidoleon said: There are even plenty of examples of americans changing (censoring) gay shit in anime and manga, to ensure that it will sell more. In the 1980s eidoleon said: The majority people who spend a signifigant ammount of time complaining about "woke ideology" can't give an actual deffinition beyond "diversity I dont like". Hmm... then why is it that the majority of people who complain, some even quite signifignantly, about woke ideology loved Black Panther? eidoleon said: There are lots of characters that are very dear to me personally because i love them and see aspects of myself in them that I dont get to see in other characters. But there are also people who would find these characters problematic for various, sometimes valid reasons. And they can have those criticisms and i can still enjoy thise characters Great, now you have a valid argument, so why don't you say who these characters are and what makes them so dear to you? |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
-Shizuna- said: Anime is Japanese made cartoons made primarily for a Japanese audience.Not audiences outside of Japan. So the idea that anime needs to cater to an audience outside of Japan is absurd. So are stuff like the FLCL Progressive and Alternative or the currently airing Housing Complex C not anime? Because those all aired in the US before they aired in Japan. In general, anime is becoming more globalized with projects like Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Star Wars Visions, and Japan Sinks 2020 (which is very pointed about this fact). billybub said: Japan's population is 98% ethnic Japanese, so seems to me people are represented just fine The fact that people still report this statistic as fact is a testament to how successful the conservative Japanese propaganda machine is. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Mienus said: -Shizuna- said: Anime is Japanese made cartoons made primarily for a Japanese audience.Not audiences outside of Japan. So the idea that anime needs to cater to an audience outside of Japan is absurd. So are stuff like the FLCL Progressive and Alternative or the currently airing Housing Complex C not anime? Because those all aired in the US before they aired in Japan. In general, anime is becoming more globalized with projects like Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Star Wars Visions, and Japan Sinks 2020 (which is very pointed about this fact). billybub said: Japan's population is 98% ethnic Japanese, so seems to me people are represented just fine The fact that people still report this statistic as fact is a testament to how successful the conservative Japanese propaganda machine is. Right because actual FACTS are propaganda https://www.indexmundi.com/japan/demographics_profile.html#:~:text=124%2C687%2C293%20(July%202021%20est.)&text=Japanese%2097.9%25%2C%20Chinese%200.6%25,Brazilian)%20(2017%20est.)&text=The%20World%20Factbook%2C%20the%20indispensable%20source%20for%20basic%20information. |
billybub said: Right because actual FACTS are propaganda https://www.indexmundi.com/japan/demographics_profile.html#:~:text=124%2C687%2C293%20(July%202021%20est.)&text=Japanese%2097.9%25%2C%20Chinese%200.6%25,Brazilian)%20(2017%20est.)&text=The%20World%20Factbook%2C%20the%20indispensable%20source%20for%20basic%20information. I would suggest you look into the ethnic groups like the Ainu (you've seen Golden Kamuy), Ryukyuans, and Burakumin. The source you provided specifically refers to nationality, not ethnicity. There are plenty of people in Japan who are Japanese in terms of nationality or citizenship, but are not ethnically Yamato Japanese. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Mienus said: billybub said: Right because actual FACTS are propaganda https://www.indexmundi.com/japan/demographics_profile.html#:~:text=124%2C687%2C293%20(July%202021%20est.)&text=Japanese%2097.9%25%2C%20Chinese%200.6%25,Brazilian)%20(2017%20est.)&text=The%20World%20Factbook%2C%20the%20indispensable%20source%20for%20basic%20information. I would suggest you look into the ethnic groups like the Ainu (you've seen Golden Kamuy), Ryukyuans, and Burakumin. The source you provided specifically refers to nationality, not ethnicity. There are plenty of people in Japan who are Japanese in terms of nationality or citizenship, but are not ethnically Yamato Japanese. Such as this? https://minorityrights.org/country/japan/ An additional 3 million people woukd still leave the "Yamato" Japanese population at close to 95%. Facts are Facts |
billybub said: Mienus said: I would suggest you look into the ethnic groups like the Ainu (you've seen Golden Kamuy), Ryukyuans, and Burakumin. The source you provided specifically refers to nationality, not ethnicity. There are plenty of people in Japan who are Japanese in terms of nationality or citizenship, but are not ethnically Yamato Japanese. Such as this? https://minorityrights.org/country/japan/ An additional 3 million people woukd still leave the "Yamato" Japanese population at close to 95%. Facts are Facts I'm not really sure why you put "Yamato" in scare quotes, that's what they are. There are also issues with reporting as well, either from the fact that this data is collected via self-reporting which leads to people misreporting (intentionally or not) that they are Japanese, which would cause the number of non-Yamato Japanese people to be an underestimation. There is also the issue of how the government itself handles these statistics given that the Japanese government has in the past and continues to engage in the erasure of minority groups for the purpose of promoting an image of a homogenous Japan. I'm not saying that Japan is some sort of hyper-multicultural, multi-ethnic nation like India for instance, however these numbers, like all statistics, should not be taken at face value and the methodology in their collection and criteria should always be scrutinized. However, the promotion of this idea that Japan is an ethnically homogenous nation-state only serves to perpetuate the erasure of numerous minority groups and the discrimination they continue to face. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Zekkenshin said: Yuu_Kanzaki said: Growing up, I thought the whole point of storytelling was to learn about varying perspectives and to try to find common ground with people different from you. It was actually because of that I became infatuated with shoujo. It helped me understand my strong affinity to femininity even as a man. One of my favorite & most relatable characters is an 11 year old girl (Amu Hinamori from Shugo Chara). The best representation is a character you can organically connect to without having to confine them to the role of a sociopolitical tool. That's how you develop empathy & understanding of others while deepening your own self-understanding.As an asian myself I don't understand what's the deal with representation. This is just an example and it's a gross generalization, but why do black people or white people feel the need to be represented in anime or other types of medium? I agree with you, since when does relatability limited by race? There's more to it that that. If someone can relate to a character or a show solely because of its race, then said character or show is shallow imo. Of course, I don't reject expanding the creative potential of anime as a medium. I'm willing to bet a Vinland Saga style anime set in Ancient Africa would be a big hit because it would just be a quality storytelling experience. What doesn't work is taking Vinland Saga, replacing the main characters with token Africans, then saying it's now "more diverse" and better as a result. Goes both ways. I'm pretty sure black people don't wonder why they don't have more token black characters in Vinland Saga or Vikings, they wonder why there's dozens of shows about vikings in the last decade, and probably zero about cool african tribemen waging war. I agree with your bit about relating to characters for other reasons than them having the same skin color than you do. But that's probably easier to say when 99% characters around are your skin color. I'm not black. I don't know what it feels like to have ads, models, tv hosts, society as a whole showing me 24/7 that I'm not the current beauty standard, not the average joe, not from here. |
DeathkoNov 9, 2022 6:22 AM
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Mienus said: billybub said: Such as this? https://minorityrights.org/country/japan/ An additional 3 million people woukd still leave the "Yamato" Japanese population at close to 95%. Facts are Facts I'm not really sure why you put "Yamato" in scare quotes, that's what they are. There are also issues with reporting as well, either from the fact that this data is collected via self-reporting which leads to people misreporting (intentionally or not) that they are Japanese, which would cause the number of non-Yamato Japanese people to be an underestimation. There is also the issue of how the government itself handles these statistics given that the Japanese government has in the past and continues to engage in the erasure of minority groups for the purpose of promoting an image of a homogenous Japan. I'm not saying that Japan is some sort of hyper-multicultural, multi-ethnic nation like India for instance, however these numbers, like all statistics, should not be taken at face value and the methodology in their collection and criteria should always be scrutinized. However, the promotion of this idea that Japan is an ethnically homogenous nation-state only serves to perpetuate the erasure of numerous minority groups and the discrimination they continue to face. Typical, these facts don't match what I want to believe therefore they must've been collected wrong, etc. Naturally you don't have any actual proof of this, just that it's "Conservative" Japanese propaganda. |
DigiCat said: Simple it doesn't ????? Are we living in the same internet? Can i live in yours where this doesn't happen. I am so fucking sick of it. DigiCat said: By the quality Quality is subjective. And no I'm not going to argue about that. Its an argument i am extreamly sick of having. "Quality" is again just a way of saying "diversity i dont like". And people often seem to take diversity as something that degrades a works quality. (Complaints about it being unrealistic when it not, complaints about their being more "minorities" when its very mesureable that on screen representation doesnt align with reality. Complaints about "forced" diversity in shit thats so middle of the road people would probably have no complaints normally) Also if "quality" is a determining factor, I can certainly think of works I have read where the representation is ernest, yet as close to "objectively" bad as one could imagine. DigiCat said: To censor their works to sell in china I was actually mostly thinking of stories of american/canadian animators being told to cut content in their shows. The excuse in the past being its "inappropriate" for kids. Which is stupid. In more recent times its a more nebulous "wont sell, parents will complain, forigen markets grumble grumble just do what we tell you." But yeah, it does happen to live action stuff, probably because of China. DigiCat said: Hmm... then why is it that the majority of people who complain, some even quite signifignantly, about woke ideology loved Black Panther? Seriously can we trade internets? I have no interest in defending marvel or live action disney movies, because I find them wildly boring. But they are kinda a good example of what i mean? People did complain about marvel being "too woke", and had far harsher takes on the movie, when it was pretty much the same quality as all other Marvel movies. Happened with Captain Marvel too. Happened with Star Wars. People have been complaining about Black Panther being "too political" since he was created. DigiCat said: why don't you say who these characters are and what makes them so dear to you? Hmm, yeah, I'll give the most obviously clear cut answer. So, soul eater was really big when I was in high school. And the character Chrona was the first character I had ever seen that was really "ambiguous". I remember official translations at the time defaulted to male pronouns, but it was widely known at the time that the original did not ever specify Chrona's pronouns or gender. I didnt really know the reasons but i really connected to them. Its a character thing for sure, I also cant deal with that right now some times. At the time, I didnt really understand being non-binary or trans, but seeing Chrona, I thought, "I wish I could be like that. I wish that people didn't, or couldn't see me as one or the other." In a lot of ways the fact that the way Chrona's gender is pretty "ambiguous" rather than them just coming out and saying "I am non-binary, i use nutral gendered speech." Is a better, more natural writing desicion over all. And the sort that I personally prefer. But i cant also ignor the fact that its caused people to argue for years about it. Same thing with characters like Alluka from hunterxhunter. And Grell from kuroshitsuji. I appriciate subtlety as an adult, and in the few shows Ive seen that do have a character pretty much just state "i am trans/nonbinary" it does always feel a bit unnatural and clunky. (Which also is not unrepresentitive of things that happen in real life but w/e) However, the shows that do this are mostly for children and I can't really say that seeing something like that wouldn't have been incredibly meaningful to me as a kid. Though when ever this does happen I also see lots of people complaining about it because ""they"" are pushing an ""agenda"" or are being ""forced by the woke mob"". So i dont know with I'd rather have. Probably a wider varaity of representation so that the needs of kids and people who need it spelled out can be met, and the wants of me an adult who likes things to be as vague as possible. (Also yes, i am writing my own stories, lots of people are working to make media that represents them, every time i see someone say "why dont theses people make stuff of their own instead of complaining" it takes 10 years off my life.) I'll give another example, one that i would (especially with hindsight) call "diversity for attention, while not really actually doing anything". Dumbledore in harry potter was declared to be gay after the books were finished. There arent really any concrete hits to him being gay in the books. Thus it even being called "representation" is highly questionable. But at the time, it did mean something to me. That a really popular character, one who is a teacher, and pretty happy and sucsessful, a pillar of his society, could be gay. It was deffinatly a different time, but I did think it was incredibly meaningful. And also peope still got mad and acused jkr of pushing an agenda so ??? its a difficult thing to explain if someone has no trouble "seeing themself" in media. And its not as though i dont relate to cis straight characters. Obviously. But seeing a part of yourself, that maybe you dont even have the words to acknowlage, can be i dunno. Life changing? Affirming. Also, I've mostly been talking about queer rep because thats whats personal to me so I actually feel qualified to speak about it. But its really nog hard to find similar stories of people feeling "seen" and thus very very happy when seeing characters of a different race in general media, and anime. Not to mention the obvious benifit of exposing people to different type of people when media might be the only way for that to really happen. I think its kinda telling that people see like... one black character in a star wars or what ever and start pissing and shitting themselves over how "woke" it is now and how its ruined forever, as though it wasnt already "ruined forever" six times over already by the prequels or the christmas special or being bought by disney. |
eidoleonNov 9, 2022 9:36 AM
Dulonkk said: Why anyone outside of Japan even has the right to demand anything from Japan in regards to representation in the first place?.. Not to mention, representation the way it's presented by those who demand it are racist in itself since it's fixated on skin color alone. Take a black American, a white American, an Ethiopian and a Russian. A white American will have MORE in common with a black American than with a Russian and a black American will have more in common with a white American than with an Ethiopian. Yet it's always about skin. I don't really see an issue with giving people from minority groups representation just because their identity is different from what is the norm. If anything, giving people representation through placation will prevent them from demanding it with violence and going way further than most of this thread would accept politically. Anime fans are generally just too conservative. |
eidoleon said: Are we living in the same internet? Can i live in yours where this doesn't happen. I am so fucking sick of it I mean, sure, come over eidoleon said: Quality is subjective Ehh, taste is subjective, quality not so much Off the top of my head, Suicide Squad 2016 is not a good quality movie, it's pace is extreamly slow for an action movie, the direction is all over the place, and the supposidely big emotional scenes lack impact, but i liked the story it was trying to tell, still i have no problem admitting it could've been much better executed eidoleon said: People did complain about marvel being "too woke" This is actually something that's only really come up with their most recent projects, and a lot of it has to do with how Kevin Feigi's been marketing them And though i do think most of Marvel's "wokeness" comes in the form of marketing, there have been instances when they did try to push certain narratives to the detriment of the story Example, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, the amount of times you here in that show "because Falcon is black", everything is because Falcon is Black, Falcon didn't get Cap's shield because he's black, when it's so obvious from a plot point of view, Falcon didn't get the shield 'cause he's smart, think about it, who would the government rather give the shield too, smart Falcon who has a mind of his own, or dumb-dumb Cap lookalike who'll follow all their orders blindly? eidoleon said: Happened with Captain Marvel too. Happened with Star Wars I already said about Captain Marvvel, it had nothing to do with her being a woman, but everything to do with the woman playing her By that logic Wonder Woman should've had the same amount of backlash, but it didn't Also Star Wars, the complaints came after the disaster that was The Last Jedi, there were various reasons why some didn't like Force Awakens, such as it not following the extended universe, just like there was devide when the prequels came out, but most fans can egnoledge that even with it's flaws the prequels were made with effort and passion to try and make a good story that fits in that universe, same with Mandalorian which came out after the sequels, but it got a very different reaction from fans, even though not everyone liked it or thought it was great eidoleon said: soul eater was really big when I was in high school. And the character Chrona was the first character I had ever seen that was really "ambiguous". I remember official translations at the time defaulted to male pronouns, but it was widely known at the time that the original did not ever specify Chrona's pronouns or gender. I didnt really know the reasons but i really connected to them Chrona's a really good example, and a character i can really relate to too, we have very different personalities, but i can definitely relate to Chrona having a toxic mom eidoleon said: one that i would (especially with hindsight) call "diversity for attention, while not really actually doing anything". Dumbledore in harry potter was declared to be gay after the books were finished. I mean yes given the times, but i think most of all it wouldn't really add anything to the story to know who the teachers are dating JKR created these characters and it's up to her if they're straight or gay ecc., but i can see how people might see it as a cheap way to look inclusive A good example i can think of a gay character who's not in a show just for the sake of being gay is Captain Holt in Brooklyn 99, he's a very well developed character with his streangths and his flaws, and he fits in the story eidoleon said: its a difficult thing to explain if someone has no trouble "seeing themself" in media I can see what you mean The same thing happened when Captain Marvel and Star Wars VII came out, with a lot of the marketing revolving around the MCs being female (i think that's probably why some complaints came with ep VII even though the majority only started complaining at ep. VIII) The way they were marketing them as "now we finally have a superhero/jedi women and girls can relate too", i'm listening to these claims like what?? I'm female, and the superhero i relate to most is Thor The only things i can realte to Captain marvel is we're both slow AF at typing on a computer and we both like cats Also what about the other female superheroes, what about Black Widow, what about Gamora (female superhero i can relate to most), do they count for nothing just 'cause they didn't get stand alone movies? eidoleon said: ve seen that do have a character pretty much just state "i am trans/nonbinary" it does always feel a bit unnatural and clunky. (Which also is not unrepresentitive of things that happen in real life but w/e) However, the shows that do this are mostly for children and I can't really say that seeing something like that wouldn't have been incredibly meaningful to me as a kid. Though when ever this does happen I also see lots of people complaining about it because ""they"" are pushing an ""agenda"" or are being ""forced by the woke mob"". Personally i think anything that has to do with kids should be treated with a lot of caution It's a good thing to teach kids to have respect for others regardless of gender, race, sexuality, ecc., but it has to be done in a kid friendly manner Like yes teach them gay people exist and deserve the same amount of respect as anyone else, but they don't need to lear gay sex-ed, or any sex-ed for that matter, when they're in primary school, that's the type of stuff parents complain about |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
| I do care about representation in anime, though my interest lies in queer characters rather than race. The scene is getting better each day in terms of manga; a lot of interesting rep. Anime is a lot further behind in this regard, but I'm sure it will eventually get there. My perv brain is still holding out for a Mentaiko Itto adaption. |
 |
| It shouldn't matter in anything, literally who cares who's "represented" in a story |
billybub said: Typical, these facts don't match what I want to believe therefore they must've been collected wrong, etc. Naturally you don't have any actual proof of this, just that it's "Conservative" Japanese propaganda. I usually don't like just dumping a bunch of sources (especially when the information is easily searchable) because it usually just devolves into both parties playing articles and publications against one another like they're YuGiOh cards. Historical discrimination towards minority groups is pretty well documented with groups like Ryukyuans and Burakumin not being recognized by the Japanese government and the Ainu were only recognized as an official indigenous group in 2019. You also have comments from former PM now LDP VP Taro Aso on the transhistorical identity of Japan: "No other country but this one has lasted for as long as 2,000 years with one language, one ethnic group and one dynasty" https://indianexpress.com/article/world/deputy-pm-taro-aso-calls-japan-a-nation-with-single-race-6216229/ Now anyone with even the remotest familiarity with Japanese history would know this is false. Of course while this comment was walked back, it's not the first time Taro Aso has said anything like this https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-says-japan-is-nation-of-one-race/ What's more, when Hiromu Nonoka was poised to become Japan's next PM in 2001, Aso stated: "We are not going to let someone from the buraku become the prime minister, are we?" https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/world/asia/16outcasts.html These, of course, are just statements from one very powerful member of the Japanese political establishment. I could provide comments and affiliations from other individuals that underscore a similar sentiment, but I think Taro Aso's are the most mask-off. Now to tie this back around to your original comment about anime. Many anime are typically set in Tokyo, and most anime tend to follow young people who are either in high school or college. Now consider the fact that 1 in 8 people who turned 20 in Tokyo in 2018 were foreign born. And that's not even factoring in people who were born in Japan but are not ethnically Yamato. So in terms of representation in anime, the whole 98% figure doesn't really apply. https://japantoday.com/category/national/roughly-one-in-eight-of-tokyo%E2%80%99s-new-adults-is-foreign-born-study-shows |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
DigiCat said: And though i do think most of Marvel's "wokeness" comes in the form of marketing, there have been instances when they did try to push certain narratives to the detriment of the story I do know that diversity does get used for marketing purposes, and I also feel compelled to point out that most "sjws" also kinda hate this practice. Though in my case I also think pretty much all marketeting is stupid and i mostly do my best to ignore it, or at least not let it effect how I actually feel about the work. Especially for big studio productions the people in charge of the marketing are completely different from anyone on the creative side. So if one cares about and is trying to determine the "sincerity" of representation, looking at marketing is pretty misleading. Im personally of the opinion that I would rather have to put up with some cringe marketing for now and get to have more diverse stories than the other way around. Since to me the benifits out weigh the cost. I would wipe the concept of advertising from existance if i could though. DigiCat said: I already said about Captain Marvvel, it had nothing to do with her being a woman, but everything to do with the woman playing her By that logic Wonder Woman should've had the same amount of backlash, but it didn't Right, but people percived the actress as like someone who was gonna kill them personally for liking movies with dudes in them? Because she said some kinda cringe shit? I kinda dont remember the details. But i really thought it weird just how much people flipped their shit over her? And became willing to read into every single thing she did as some kinda slight against them personally? It was absolutly an overreaction to just like... a lady saying something a bit weird in a marketing setting. I did see some pretty freako takes about wonder woman, but they tended to be from the more hardcore "i am openly a bigot and proud of it" crowd. I do kinda think dc not being that popular could have been a factor in that, and wonder woman being The Classic lady superhero probably helped. But yeah, people were not as weird about wonder woman, which was nice for a change. Was a pretty good movie too. DigiCat said: Also Star Wars, the complaints came after the disaster that was The Last Jedi, there were various reasons why some didn't like Force Awakens, such as it not following the extended universe, just like there was devide when the prequels came out, but most fans can egnoledge that even with it's flaws the prequels were made with effort and passion to try and make a good story that fits in that universe, same with Mandalorian which came out after the sequels, but it got a very different reaction from fans, even though not everyone liked it or thought it was great I was actually specifically thinking about how people reacted to the force awakens. (I stopped paying attention mostly after that) Which was uhh, pretty fucking weird. People were specifically very very weird about Rey, it was a whole range of "shes a mary sue" (even though she was about between luke and Anikin in termes of power and 'importance', to "why are they forcing diversity" even though like what the fuck is actually the problem with having not an entierly white dude cast in star wars, to some truely fucked "women are only good for babies" shit, though not many were willing to be as open about that... but where provided a pretty convenient cover by the people "just mad shes a mary sue". And people were equally, if not even weirder about Finn... Also yeah it was kinda fucked what they did with the eu stuff, i guess getting a clean break is a good idea. But a better idea is probably to go into your multibillion dollar franchise with an actual plan for the story arc and character arcs of the movies. DigiCat said: I mean yes given the times, but i think most of all it wouldn't really add anything to the story to know who the teachers are dating I mean the main thing it would add is more depth to dumbledor. And like, why add anything to a story? Cause its cool and people might like it mostly. Dumbledor had some level of backstory explored in the original books, though there probably wouldn't have been a very natural way to show him being gay, aside from him just like having a boyfriend or what ever. So back then i was willing to defend her because it was kinda a cool thing to think about when reading the books, for me at least. Them not going for it when they had a whole bunch of prequels was the real kicker. Yeah yeah china foreign market this and that. But really jkr has shown that she loves attention and doesnt give much of a shit about queer people so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ DigiCat said: "now we finally have a superhero/jedi women and girls can relate too", i'm listening to these claims like what?? I'm female, and the superhero i relate to most is Thor Yeah, i mean, I think different people want different things from their representation, both on an individual basis and on a societal group baisis. And i think is very easy for marketers who dont have much personal skin in the game to conflate that and assume that people calling for female representation want like, idfk strong role models they can relate to because girl. When its really more of a societal thing of like, "we should stop presenting 'man' as the default, and have more female characters that get to do different things so that people can see and understand women are capable of doing different things." Because there are observably people who still dont understand that. Where as with queer rep I think people do tend to crave more of that sort of personal connection, and an oportunity to show people that like... gay people exist and are normal, or at least as normal as everyone else. Im annoyed that people tend to conflate all diversity with this "marketing version" and assume that diversity is forced, just by the nature of it being there, or the marketing. DigiCat said: Also what about the other female superheroes, what about Black Widow, what about Gamora (female superhero i can relate to most), do they count for nothing just 'cause they didn't get stand alone movies? Marvel not just making a fucking Black Widow movie earlier was honestly a pretty big factor in me not giving a shit about the mcu... she deserved a movie sooner than she got one, and all the gaurdians of the galaxy deserved more. Also it was pretty embarasing how long it took them to make a Wonder Woman movie considering shes one of the most well known superheros of all time. I have also seen people complain about Black Widow, because shes "a small lady how am i supposed to believe she can beat up big dudes and fight aliens, they're just having her do that to push an agenda that women are strong" when its like... i dunno man there are aliens and norse gods in the movie, is that really where your suspension of belief calls it in? When there are irl women who can beat the shit out of people, dudes included, because they've trained for it? (Not saying that you specifically are saying this but it was deffinatly something i saw back when the avengers came out, most female characters in popular action movies get at least this kind of reception from some people. How far the takes spreads is a matter of other factors) DigiCat said: Like yes teach them gay people exist and deserve the same amount of respect as anyone else, but they don't need to lear gay sex-ed, or any sex-ed for that matter, when they're in primary school, that's the type of stuff parents complain about The parents complaining are far more the types who think that any kind of gay or gender stuff, representation education, what ever, is inherently sexual, or they are honest and say they think its sinful. Primary schoolers are not being taught how to have sex when they learn about sexuality and gender identities. They are not being taught a sex ed ciriculum that is beyond what psycologists and educators reccomend for the age group. Its in fact far more common for primary-highschoolers to have a damaging lack of sex-ed. Anyone who tries to conflate kids being informed of sexuality and gender with them being shown porn or some shit, is lying and likely actually trying to push a conservative agenda. Im not like, acusing you of doing that or what ever, but there are people who are lying about that sort of thing, and trying to shape being gay, trans, or even just gender nonconforming, as inherently sexual acts. and its extreamly damaging for people who have to live with the consequenses of that. |
Salty-GB said: I do care about representation in anime, though my interest lies in queer characters rather than race. The scene is getting better each day in terms of manga; a lot of interesting rep. Anime is a lot further behind in this regard, but I'm sure it will eventually get there. My perv brain is still holding out for a Mentaiko Itto adaption. Yeahh, i also care most about manga, cause its usually a lot more personal to the author. And I think theres way more freedom with what people can publish in manga than what people will put in anime. And also a lot more of it gets published. At least it seems that way from an outsider perspective. Its suprising there hasnt been one... given how popular the guy's works are... |
eidoleon said: I do know that diversity does get used for marketing purposes, and I also feel compelled to point out that most "sjws" also kinda hate this practice. Though in my case I also think pretty much all marketeting is stupid and i mostly do my best to ignore it, or at least not let it effect how I actually feel about the work. This i 100% agree I also make it a point to always watch for myself the movies/shows i'm interested in and make my own mind up on them regardless of marketing Unfortunately marketing is very influential to most people eidoleon said: People were specifically very very weird about Rey, it was a whole range of "shes a mary sue" I mean yeah some people did say this about her already from ep. VII, but most people also just saw it as "we'll get answers in the next movie", but when the next movie didn't deliver on that people started doubling down on the "she's a mary-sue" wondering why there's no explanation or history as to why she seems so overpowered, it's the same logic as the ovepowered isekai MC eidoleon said: Its in fact far more common for primary-highschoolers to have a damaging lack of sex-ed. I mean primary school is definitely to early for that, middle school i think is a good place to start sex-ed since that's when kids are becoming teens and starting puberty I can only speak for my highschool experience, but this was 10 years ago, and i kid you not, this was like a scene straight out of Shimoneta, 2 flies flying around the classroom, every student distracted AF looking at the flies, and the flies just start humping in mid air! All the students in courus going "OOooooooooooo!!", and the teacher's response "well that's sex-ed out of the way" eidoleon said: Anyone who tries to conflate kids being informed of sexuality and gender with them being shown porn or some shit, is lying and likely actually trying to push a conservative agenda I'm sure there are some who do overexagerate because they don't like it, it goes against their religious belifes and whatever, but there have been instances where it was not an exageration, and in those instances there is video evidence of the teachers not being very appropriate in a school setting |
| What debating with DigiCat is like according to APolygons2 That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow lose to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol |
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