Psychku said: Before One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach, battle shonen works used to be mature and tackling deeper themes Could you share a few good examples of mature and deep battle shonen? I would be happy to check them. |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
| Nah, Dragon Ball dumbed down battle shounen, so there wasn't any more the big 3 could have dumbed down. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| Battle shonen were always dumb. Literally the first adaptation of what could be called a "battle shonen" was Hokuto no Ken. You mean to say characters yelling out attacks wasn't already dumb enough? Shonen in general very rarely serve a purpose, this has always been the case even before the big 3. It's just brainless entertainment, it's not supposed to be deep or mature. |
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| Nope the genre was always meant for 13 year olds. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Reply to removed-user
@LoveYourSmile Ofc, there are some excellent works in my favorites on my profile.
@Psychku  Yeah I fail to see your point, though. Is Yu Yu Hakusho your idea of a mature battle shonen? Chainsaw Man debuted in a shonen magazine just a few years ago. Attack on Titan or Jujutsu Kaisen may also be seen as mature by some. |
IKKIsamaJul 2, 4:46 AM
Reply to IKKIsama
@Psychku
Yeah I fail to see your point, though. Is Yu Yu Hakusho your idea of a mature battle shonen?
Chainsaw Man debuted in a shonen magazine just a few years ago. Attack on Titan or Jujutsu Kaisen may also be seen as mature by some.
Yeah I fail to see your point, though. Is Yu Yu Hakusho your idea of a mature battle shonen?
Chainsaw Man debuted in a shonen magazine just a few years ago. Attack on Titan or Jujutsu Kaisen may also be seen as mature by some.
@IKKIsama  Yeah, that does not surprise me. Yes, YuYu is excellent. SimplyBrazen said: It's just brainless entertainment, it's not supposed to be deep or mature. Then explain why Hunter x Hunter exists? |
removed-userJul 2, 4:44 AM
Psychku said: Then explain why Hunter x Hunter exists? Hunter x Hunter does introduce several decent new concepts that the genre practically hadn't touched before, but it was mostly too surface level to be considered mature nor deep. Meruem going "humans suck I wanna create my own system" is such a pathetic attempt at expanding upon a psychological subject that it's not even funny. |
SimplyBrazenJul 2, 5:24 AM
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Reply to removed-user
@IKKIsama
Yeah, that does not surprise me.
Yes, YuYu is excellent.
Then explain why Hunter x Hunter exists?
Yeah, that does not surprise me.
Yes, YuYu is excellent.
SimplyBrazen said:
It's just brainless entertainment, it's not supposed to be deep or mature.
It's just brainless entertainment, it's not supposed to be deep or mature.
Then explain why Hunter x Hunter exists?
| @Psychku I'm not judging your favorites btw. I'm just saying I don't find Yu Yu Hakusho or Hunter x Hunter more mature than some modern battle shonens like Chainsaw Man, Attack on Titan, Jujutsu Kaisen. |
IKKIsamaJul 2, 5:55 AM
| the only dumb battle shounen is dbz. all other are pretty good. |
 The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
| I would actually say things like Jujutsu Kaisen, Demon Slayer, or Black Clover are far more dumbed down than the big 3. If you want something more mature just watch more seinen. |
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| The thing that actually contributes to the dumbing down of battle shonen is the fact that shonen jump will axe any manga before it gets a chance to set anything substantive up so mangakas are forced to cut a shitload of corners writing the story. "maturity" has absolutely nothing to do with it and is usually just a buzzword people misuse when talking about anime that they specifically don't vibe with |
| Sometimes you just want to hear anime girls squeak and squeal |
| If I had to guess, a lot of editors probably forced manga to follow more story tropes to get published in order to replicate the success of the big 3 anime. Experimentation is likely not as permitted anymore which is unsurprising from a business standpoint. |
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| Dragon Ball had dumbed it down already before them. |
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Reply to Nemo_Niemand
Dragon Ball had dumbed it down already before them.
| @Nemo_Niemand exactly what i was gonna say and its the most popular battle shonen too |
| Since Fist Of The North Star and Dragon Ball which are the forefather of the genre, aren't less dumber, looks like it's one of the main features. |
| Another desperate cry for attention with a bait thread created by an alt. |
| The big three, especially naruto is already very mature and deep. Nobody thinks that though because they can’t get passed the fact it’s a battle shounen. Hunter x hunter is also pretty psychological and “deep.” Yall just haters |
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Reply to SimplyBrazen
Battle shonen were always dumb. Literally the first adaptation of what could be called a "battle shonen" was Hokuto no Ken. You mean to say characters yelling out attacks wasn't already dumb enough? Shonen in general very rarely serve a purpose, this has always been the case even before the big 3. It's just brainless entertainment, it's not supposed to be deep or mature.
| @SimplyBrazen Bruh it’s not brainless. Where are people getting this from? Just because the mc is loud and the premise isn’t that complicated? There’s a lot of deep themes and messages introduced in shonen, it’s not always just battles and screaming 🤦♀️. Tired of people simple minded way at looking at sometbjng aimed for teens and tweens |
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Reply to removed-user
@JoeChip you seem to be projecting there, buddy.
Literally peak.
Kenzolo-folk said:
Hunter x hunter is also pretty psychological and “deep.” Yall just haters
Hunter x hunter is also pretty psychological and “deep.” Yall just haters
Literally peak.
| @Psychku I am not the one who made this thread, and other bait threads you made before, so try harder with your bait, my boy. |
| @jhzs0029 If you had actually had a smart thing to say you'd have checked the OP's profile and his previous posts before posting this. |
Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@SimplyBrazen
Bruh it’s not brainless. Where are people getting this from? Just because the mc is loud and the premise isn’t that complicated? There’s a lot of deep themes and messages introduced in shonen, it’s not always just battles and screaming 🤦♀️. Tired of people simple minded way at looking at sometbjng aimed for teens and tweens
Bruh it’s not brainless. Where are people getting this from? Just because the mc is loud and the premise isn’t that complicated? There’s a lot of deep themes and messages introduced in shonen, it’s not always just battles and screaming 🤦♀️. Tired of people simple minded way at looking at sometbjng aimed for teens and tweens
| @Kenzolo-folk As I mentioned in the other reply, most psychological aspects of shonen in general are way too surface level. It usually expands on topics that are easily understood or relatable for the masses. There are exceptions obviously as in any other genre, but we're speaking generally here. |
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Reply to SimplyBrazen
@Kenzolo-folk As I mentioned in the other reply, most psychological aspects of shonen in general are way too surface level. It usually expands on topics that are easily understood or relatable for the masses. There are exceptions obviously as in any other genre, but we're speaking generally here.
| @SimplyBrazen That doesn’t make it brainless or dumb tho. It’s really not that much different at all from themes in Vinland saga, devil man, and slam dunk. I’d argue Vinland has literally identical themes to shounen |
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Reply to SimplyBrazen
@Kenzolo-folk As I mentioned in the other reply, most psychological aspects of shonen in general are way too surface level. It usually expands on topics that are easily understood or relatable for the masses. There are exceptions obviously as in any other genre, but we're speaking generally here.
| @SimplyBrazen Shounen is a demographic, not a genre to begin with. |
Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@SimplyBrazen
That doesn’t make it brainless or dumb tho. It’s really not that much different at all from themes in Vinland saga, devil man, and slam dunk. I’d argue Vinland has literally identical themes to shounen
That doesn’t make it brainless or dumb tho. It’s really not that much different at all from themes in Vinland saga, devil man, and slam dunk. I’d argue Vinland has literally identical themes to shounen
| @Kenzolo-folk Vinland Saga started publishing in a shounen magazine, it later switched tıo a seinen one. |
Reply to JoeChip
| @JoeChip Shounen can count as a genre. That’s why the term “battle shounen” exists. It’s a genre, they don’t mean battle teenagers |
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Reply to JoeChip
@Kenzolo-folk
Vinland Saga started publishing in a shounen magazine, it later switched tıo a seinen one.
Vinland Saga started publishing in a shounen magazine, it later switched tıo a seinen one.
| @JoeChip Yeah and I’m caught up with Vinland and my point still stands |
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Reply to JoeChip
| @JoeChip Everyone treats it as a genre and it pretty much is if you consider how similar 99% of shonen are. |
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Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@SimplyBrazen
That doesn’t make it brainless or dumb tho. It’s really not that much different at all from themes in Vinland saga, devil man, and slam dunk. I’d argue Vinland has literally identical themes to shounen
That doesn’t make it brainless or dumb tho. It’s really not that much different at all from themes in Vinland saga, devil man, and slam dunk. I’d argue Vinland has literally identical themes to shounen
| @Kenzolo-folk I've never come across a shonen I'd put above any of the anime you mentioned in terms of maturity and deep psychological aspects. Although that is entirely subjective so I'll agree to disagree here. |
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Reply to SimplyBrazen
@JoeChip Everyone treats it as a genre and it pretty much is if you consider how similar 99% of shonen are.
| @SimplyBrazen You are overgeneralizing and you are objectively wrong. |
Reply to JoeChip
| @JoeChip When you debate on sth with others you make compromises, this ain't a hard concept to grasp. I already know it's a demographic. |
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| @jhzs0029 I caN't wait for you to tell me those 10 different posts where I replied the same. |
Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@JoeChip
Shounen can count as a genre. That’s why the term “battle shounen” exists. It’s a genre, they don’t mean battle teenagers
Shounen can count as a genre. That’s why the term “battle shounen” exists. It’s a genre, they don’t mean battle teenagers
| @Kenzolo-folk Way to make baseless facts as you please to prove yourself right. And battle shounen is not even a real genre, it's a made up term created by the Western anime fans to define a certain type of shounen. |
Reply to JoeChip
@Kenzolo-folk
Way to make baseless facts as you please to prove yourself right. And battle shounen is not even a real genre, it's a made up term created by the Western anime fans to define a certain type of shounen.
Way to make baseless facts as you please to prove yourself right. And battle shounen is not even a real genre, it's a made up term created by the Western anime fans to define a certain type of shounen.
| @JoeChip Genre definition: a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter. Shounen is very similar in this way. Still counts as a genre, look it up or something. “A made up term” idk how to tell you this, but all terms are made up 🤦♀️. Idk why it’s any less valid just because it’s western. And I’ve seen you use the term battle shounen before so don’t front Lmfao you literally said “a certain type of shounen” you’re using the word like it’s a genre. This has to be satire |
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| No dragon ball was still dumb. Btw it's 'shounen'. Which means teenage boys. These aren't meant to be mature anyways. |
| It's just the nature of battle shounens. There is no dumbing down, it's already like that. |
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| Well, I see we have another person willing to stick around for peoples responses....To answer this question from this person who will never respond, I ask this. Have you seen nothing from Granddaddy Dragon Ball and it's continuations? Because that's already pretty dumb, and it was more or less the blueprint for the next set of popular action shounen. And yes, I'm sticking with that, because the action genre already implies "battle". "Battle shounen" is redundant. |
We all mention Dragon Ball, but are we seriously forgetting Kinnikuman, which debuted at the end of the 70s? This predates the debut of the original Dragon Ball manga and Fist of the North Star manga. |
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| I swear I roll my eyes every time I hear arguments about maturity in shonen discussions. |
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| I disagree with the OP. The battle shonen genre has always been dumbed down. So there is no way to dumb it down even more than it already is. |
Hmmm, a topic by an OP who deleted their account? I wonder what type of- Their profile 1 day before they made this post Ah, got it. That tells me everything I need to know. |
Opinions are opinions, and differing opinions can co-exist. 🙂 But I don't do debate, life's too short to spend time debating people.  |
Reply to Daviljoe193
Hmmm, a topic by an OP who deleted their account? I wonder what type of-
Their profile 1 day before they made this post
Ah, got it. That tells me everything I need to know.
Their profile 1 day before they made this post
Ah, got it. That tells me everything I need to know.
| @Daviljoe193 Damn, they really got butthurt, lol. |
Reply to IKKIsama
@Daviljoe193 Damn, they really got butthurt, lol.
| @IKKIsama I just like the idea that they padded out the account favorites with random shit specifically for this thread, and not because they actually liked them. The favorites on their account is completely vacant prior to them making this post, minus a single character. 🤣 |
Opinions are opinions, and differing opinions can co-exist. 🙂 But I don't do debate, life's too short to spend time debating people. |
Reply to IKKIsama
@Psychku
Yeah I fail to see your point, though. Is Yu Yu Hakusho your idea of a mature battle shonen?
Chainsaw Man debuted in a shonen magazine just a few years ago. Attack on Titan or Jujutsu Kaisen may also be seen as mature by some.
Yeah I fail to see your point, though. Is Yu Yu Hakusho your idea of a mature battle shonen?
Chainsaw Man debuted in a shonen magazine just a few years ago. Attack on Titan or Jujutsu Kaisen may also be seen as mature by some.
| @IKKIsama Thank you for saving a pic of his profile while it still existed. |
| その目だれの目？ |
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