Nirinbo said: Even if I had listed 5 perfect examples (and I would have to read/watch dozens of average shoujo romance to do that), there's always a way to nitpick my choices (e.g. saying that the main couple in Kimi ni Todoke is evenly matched in terms of looks, ignoring that she is a loner and he is the most popular boy in her class). Are you mixing me up with someone else? I didn't criticize the KnT example whatsoever x) Nirinbo said: I got it, you love shoujo and that's perfectly ok. I'm actually more partial to shounen myself, mainly because I like adventure and fantasy the most, and don't watch/read romance all that much. It's just that when I DO go for romance, shoujo, josei and seinen all usually do a much better job at it than shounen does, where it's often a badly handled side-plot or, if it's romance-focused, the protagonist is bland as all hell and the love interest(s) are vapid dreams with exactly one personality trait aside from their sexy bits most of the time. I know I'm ultimately not the target demographic, neither age-wise nor regarding gender, so my opinion on shounen romance doesn't really matter, but the original question was why shounen romance sucks, and that's basically my answer - because a good chunk of the target demographic doesn't CARE for better romance. |
| I think black clover does a pretty good job, u should watch that. |
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SleepySera said: I'm actually more partial to shounen myself, mainly because I like adventure and fantasy the most, and don't watch/read romance all that much. It's just that when I DO go for romance, shoujo, josei and seinen all usually do a much better job at it than shounen does, where it's often a badly handled side-plot or, if it's romance-focused, the protagonist is bland as all hell and the love interest(s) are vapid dreams with exactly one personality trait aside from their sexy bits most of the time. I know I'm ultimately not the target demographic, neither age-wise nor regarding gender, so my opinion on shounen romance doesn't really matter, but the original question was why shounen romance sucks, and that's basically my answer - because a good chunk of the target demographic doesn't CARE for better romance. I 100% agree. Even though I like some shounen romance anime, the romance itself is never particularly well written. Shoujo and seinen can do much better in this regard (not always, of course); not counting josei anime because they are so few and the only one I liked is Paradise Kiss, but I'm sure there are a lot of good josei romance manga. The discussion kinda went off track, but actually my main point was just that "self inserting and wish fulfillment tropes can sometimes be found in shoujo too and not just in shounen". |
| Whatever the f shounen does with romance is still better than the stupid romance in shoujo animes. |
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SaMMy17BST said: Ummm is anyone gonna mention Inuyasha? It blends action, romance, and comedy all masterfully, and the romance is usually at the forefront with the love triangle. Even Sango and Meroku have a great relationship that naturally develops over the entire series. I was about to say that, Inuyasha knows what's up. |
| "he has it big as a cactus but he won't let go of my head and I puke on his cock bitch" - Boy by Fishball |
| There are good and bad romances made for every demographic. You're just not watching the right ones. https://myanimelist.net/anime/1087/Kimagure_OrangeโRoad https://myanimelist.net/anime/35860/Karakai_Jouzu_no_Takagi-san |
| ใใฎ็ฎใ ใใฎ็ฎ๏ผ |
| bc they kids and don't have experience |
| Try Rave Master then, it actually has a really well-done romance. |
  "Truth is always a cruel thing." |
| I'd assume because they usually aren't heavily focused on romance, so any relationships aren't that fleshed out. I'm pretty sure that typically isn't why people watch those shows in the first place. Imagine watching something like Yu-Gi-Oh, having Yugi form romantic feelings for Dark Magician Girl, and then his feelings bring her to life and the whole series turns into some kinda romantic comedy. |
| Varies among different Shonen Anime but I think it's usually because if they go ahead and pour too much time into the romance aspect of the anime, It would bore the audience of people who came to see action in the anime. |
  “๐๐ฏ ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ธ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ญ๐ฅ, ๐ต๐ณ๐ถ๐ต๐ฉ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ข๐ญ๐ช๐ต๐บ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ’๐ต ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ข๐ฎ๐ฆ. ๐๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ๐ด ๐ซ๐ถ๐ด๐ต ๐ค๐ข๐ญ๐ญ ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ช๐ณ ๐ฅ๐ฆ๐ด๐ช๐ณ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฎ๐ฃ๐ช๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด ๐ข๐ด “๐ต๐ณ๐ถ๐ต๐ฉ”. ๐๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ฆ๐ท๐ฆ๐ฏ ๐ฌ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ๐ด ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ๐บ ๐ฉ๐ข๐ท๐ฆ “๐ต๐ณ๐ถ๐ต๐ฉ” ๐ข๐ด ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐น๐ค๐ถ๐ด๐ฆ.” – ๐๐ข๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ต๐ฐ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช ๐๐ข๐ต๐ข๐ด๐ฆ  สแดsแดสแด - าสสแด
แดส แดสษชษดแดแดแดแดกษด |
We just need more romances with adult characters, or at least more mature, older teenagers (16, 17+), who have more interesting dynamics than "He said hi!! Does he like me!? So shy. UwU" Yes please. Taking the mature approach and just talking to each other would resolve so many series in their entirety... Jamison2210 said: But then why even have it? Is it mandatory or the anime won't be released or what? Well, if you're watching a battle shounen and are expecting romance you came to the wrong place... Not that I much care for battle shounen or anything... |
| Isnt only Shounen, 99% of the romances in Anime are laughable. |
_Maneki-Neko_ said: Except of course for that they're not bland and you already admitted that they look pretty and generally have personality traits that make them better than the competition.Not all shounen romance anime are harems tho I think they are pretty much comparable. Shounen romances often use a very insecure, bland boy while a popular and / or interesting girl wants him. One or more. Shoujo romances often use a very insecure, bland girl while a popular and / or interesting boy wants her. In harem shoujos more than one. As I said we really need more adults or at least more mature and interesting teenagers. โค |
 Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
MileyCyrusFan997 said: As someone who watch a lot of Romance anime, I approved.Because more often than not it's simple self-insert wish fulfillment. Most of it has no actual planned plot or concept as much as that extensive detail is given to the character design of the love interests, and there is also no actual development since it isn't consumed for the plot, so it can be dragged on ad infinitum, which is what is very often done.  Shoujo = Seinen > Josei > Shounen |
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Dauphine said: Don't know about shounen romance anime since i usually don't watch them as i'm not the target audience and know i probably won't enjoy them, but i can tell you that there's actually plenty of bad shoujo romance anime too, romance in general is either a hit or miss for me entirely. Find me one whose plot comes down to this tried and tested formula: >protagonist looks and is absolutely average >80% of the characters in the title with lines are in love with him >these characters of course make the boldest advances possible >the protagonist somehow is dense enough to not realize these advances Find me even one. — This is not in any case a rarity; this is the norm. Certainly there are are bad ones, but few that quite reach this level of obscene wish fulfillment sans plot. |
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
Aramiz45 said: MileyCyrusFan997 said: As someone who watch a lot of Romance anime, I approved.Because more often than not it's simple self-insert wish fulfillment. Most of it has no actual planned plot or concept as much as that extensive detail is given to the character design of the love interests, and there is also no actual development since it isn't consumed for the plot, so it can be dragged on ad infinitum, which is what is very often done. Shoujo = Seinen > Josei > Shounen I don't think i can agree with these generalizations, not all shounen romance is the same as not all shoujo romance is the same either. As for going over specific points, as i have very little experience with shounen romance, i will only go to the shoujo one: 1. Protagonist is cute and pretty enough to be in a shounen harem: Not all of them are, some of them are very plain looking (Brown hair and brown eyes anyone?) and it was probably done so intentionally for easier relating/self insertion just like in shounen romances) An example i can cite of the top of my head is Shizuku from Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun. 2. Protagonist has distinct character traits and motives: Is that so? Then why do most people i see complain that most shoujo heroines have a thinner personality then wet paper?! Then there's the shoujo protagonists who really are just 1 dimensional, like Misaki Ayuzawa from Kaichou wa Maid-sama! who's only real defining character trait is that she's a men hating bitch. 3. Protagonist has complex, realistic feelings about being sexually assaulted and the guilt about liking it: You call that realistic?!? That's absolute bullshit!!! Believe me, it's not realistic for a woman to like/enjoy being raped at all!!!! No matter how "good looking/handsome" the guy(s) is/are perceived to be, it's just a fantasy, a trash one at that and stories who use that or even attempted rape, where they end up together with their rapist, like in (Hana Yori Dango) are automatically trash as well!!! 4. Shameless and unapologetic stockholm syndrome ending: Maybe in trash like Diabolik Lovers, but i can tell you right now that most of the shoujo i watched are nothing like that!!! 5. Love interest has a complex, morally grey personality, combining great vices and great virtues: Yes, that's unfortunately the truth, the love interest is almost always this jerk/asshole, wish there were more shoujo love interests like in Kimi ni Todoke instead! :( 6. Minimal to no Fanservice: That's mostly true, though i'd think some reverse harem and/or otome game adaptations have a different kind of fanservice for the target audience. 7. Balanced male-female cast with side characters that have their own love issues: Definitely not if it's a reverse harem or otome game adaptation lol. 8. Complex internal monologues describing conflicting feelings and itrospection: You mean all of those stupid missunderstandings and wishy washy attitude of getting togther only to separated later again and in the end you won't even know if they are actually together or not? Yeah, shoujo could really do away with that shit. 9. Rape scenes are a form of art: Really now? Rape is a form of art, oh boy, what's next?! Clearly only psycho's would think like that. 10. Poor art with no backgrounds and Yaoi hands, very soulfull: Ok, so you say that the rape scenes are a form of art but then how come you bash the actual art of shoujo, something does not add up here!!! And shoujo is actually known for having beautiful and detailed art and is often much more beautiful and pleasing to the eye than many shounen ever could!!! Also, yaoi hands are usually only in yaoi/shounen-ai/BL, that's where the name even originated from, so if you see yaoi hands i don't think it's a normal shoujo but a BL instead lol. |
MileyCyrusFan997 said: I honestly do not feel that romance targeted at older males is typically much better. When both HigeHiro and KoiKimo aired at the same time, many comparisons were drawn and yet again in the former, the protagonist had a three-man strong harem by the second episode already, which did not really serve any function for the plot apart from simply establishing a harem. KoiKimo was very different and heavily focused on the emotional situations and turmoils of the characters and the secondary characters all felt as protagonists of their own story. Romance and human psychology is simply less often a male interest, and males that do consume romance more often seem to not do so for the plot and the psychology, but the wish fulfillment aspect, and most of it clearly targeted to lonely people. Is there a substantial amount of romance wish fulfillment for a female audience? yes, but it often feels as though romance that specifically targets a male audience only has wish fulfillment and little more. Wait. HigeHiro is tagged romance?! I would not have guessed that after watching it... Sure it technically does have people with romantic feelings, but it's pushed to the side super hard. KoiKimo was good, they basically resolved all conflicts just by talking. More shows should do that. |
Dauphine said: This is one example I disagree with, but it's only one example.1. Protagonist is cute and pretty enough to be in a shounen harem: Not all of them are, some of them are very plain looking (Brown hair and brown eyes anyone?) and it was probably done so intentionally for easier relating/self insertion just like in shounen romances) An example i can cite of the top of my head is Shizuku from Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun. 2. Protagonist has distinct character traits and motives: Is that so? Then why do most people i see complain that most shoujo heroines have a thinner personality then wet paper?! Then there's the shoujo protagonists who really are just 1 dimensional, like Misaki Ayuzawa from Kaichou wa Maid-sama! who's only real defining character trait is that she's a men hating bitch. What? Misaki is an exceptional character whose defining traits are superhuman athletic ability, abnormal willpower, excellent grades. The point of Misaki's character is that he's exceptional at about everything, except humorously “feminine” abilities, but that no matter how good he is, Usui is still somewhat better which annoys him. — The other part is that despite hating males so much and idolizing females, Misaki is actually very “masculine” in personality and abilities and is guilty of most things he criticizes males on.3. Protagonist has complex, realistic feelings about being sexually assaulted and the guilt about liking it: You call that realistic?!? That's absolute bullshit!!! Believe me, it's not realistic for a woman to like/enjoy being raped at all!!!! No matter how "good looking/handsome" the guy(s) is/are perceived to be, it's just a fantasy, a trash one at that and stories who use that or even attempted rape, where they end up together with their rapist, like in (Hana Yori Dango) are automatically trash as well!!! Ah, so you simply don't want it to be true. — You should read up some of the psychology of actual cases rather than how black and white you wish the world to be and find out that very often the victims express a dislike of themselves for on some level having come to enjoyed it. This is certainly the case with the kind of sexual harassment that these titles portray where the victims often simultaneously express a dislike for it, as well as saying that on some level they also enjoy it and find it exciting.4. Shameless and unapologetic stockholm syndrome ending: Maybe in trash like Diabolik Lovers, but i can tell you right now that most of the shoujo i watched are nothing like that!!! In pretty much all of the sexual harassment stories they end up together at the end.5. Love interest has a complex, morally grey personality, combining great vices and great virtues: Yes, that's unfortunately the truth, the love interest is almost always this jerk/asshole, wish there were more shoujo love interests like in Kimi ni Todoke instead! :( Now am I confused with point 4. You admit that they are usually jerks. Would you then say that they do not usually end up together with the love interest? Surely we can agree that actually falling in love with the jerk is what Stockholm syndrome is?8. Complex internal monologues describing conflicting feelings and itrospection: You mean all of those stupid missunderstandings and wishy washy attitude of getting togther only to separated later again and in the end you won't even know if they are actually together or not? Yeah, shoujo could really do away with that shit. That has little to do with internal monologs.I would assume it refers to the typical lines akin to. “He's so mean and forceful; he's always sexually harassing me; but... every time he touches me my body turns so hot...”, which are very common. 9. Rape scenes are a form of art: Really now? Rape is a form of art, oh boy, what's next?! Clearly only psycho's would think like that. Because the rape scenes are typically magnificence and delicious.10. Poor art with no backgrounds and Yaoi hands, very soulfull: Ok, so you say that the rape scenes are a form of art but then how come you bash the actual art of shoujo, something does not add up here!!! And shoujo is actually known for having beautiful and detailed art and is often much more beautiful and pleasing to the eye than many shounen ever could!!! Also, yaoi hands are usually only in yaoi/shounen-ai/BL, that's where the name even originated from, so if you see yaoi hands i don't think it's a normal shoujo but a BL instead lol. I don't agree with this part either. There was a time when it was known for bad art, but that was a decade ago.But no, in most titles the hands are larger than most humans.  Would you take a look at how large Misaki's hands are here? Those are not normal proportions. @JaniSIr |
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| idk, wouldn't consider him a real self insert character, he has his life too well together for one. |
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