Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina (light novel)
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| Okay, hadn’t realized how up in arms everyone here is lol I don’t know why the prevailing takes are either Elaina’s just a traveller — “it’s not her place to get involved” — or Elaina’s a psychopath — “how can she just leave things like that, does she have no empathy?”. Things are rarely (if ever) that black and white, especially outside of comic book villains. First story was pretty clearcut to me. There was no evidence she knew anything about anyone other than the one guard, and the only reason I can see for her to go back was to try and do something for the sister in the first place. Then she realized the sister was gone and the brother was also probably beyond the point of saving (dude was half-plant already, might as well just let him die in his delusions), so I can understand not trying. Maybe she should’ve immediately put 2 and 2 together and gone looking for the sister immediately after learning about the flowers, but that’s the type of thing I can probably accept from someone who isn’t looking at this with the lens of ‘this is a story so... Chekhov’s gun’. Perhaps a little cheap but... believable doubt or whatever. Definitely not her fault burning them screwed over the village; I would’ve assumed they knew what they were doing and had handled these things before, or at least knew more than she did. (Then again, maybe they have done this before...) Maybe she should’ve done something about the field, but I’m not sure what she could’ve. Miles of flower fields with some monster buried below seems far beyond her abilities to destroy, and she has no need to warn the villagers because they already know. Best I can think of is to try walling off the place, but I don’t know how a traveling girl is supposed to do that. Okay, the second one however has a lot of meat to talk about. I think it’s clear she made a wrong/selfish decision, but I don’t think that choice is necessarily either inhuman or incomprehensible for her to make. There’s probably a laundry list of philosophy and psychology things to throw at this (off the top of my head ‘banality of evil’ and ‘bystander effect’ come to mind). I’m also absolutely fine with a protagonist not being a paragon of morality unless the show is trying to paint those choices as correct — which I’m pretty sure isn’t the case here. She’s grown up fairly sheltered, with her life experience being a bunch of stories. She’s been told to stay out of trouble — to run away from danger. Beyond that, she’s young and presumably inexperienced with the horrors of the world — hence the whole purpose of the journey from a narrative perspective. I have no idea what this world thinks of slavery, or human rights, or really anything of the sort, so I can’t really speak on what she’s been taught. I assume she thinks what the chief is doing is wrong, and that assaulting the chief would be wrong (since she seemingly considers it after he assaults the slave and then doesn’t). I assume also that she thinks the boy is going to be there for the slave and take care of her, so she’s initially fine with leaving the situation as is. ‘Surely he’d step in if something was that awful here?’ I also have no idea what extent she grasps the situation — the fact that many of us missed the subtext/implications of Nino straightening her clothes leads me to believe she also could’ve, and even if she did I could believe lines of thought like ‘no, I’m overthinking this’. (I assume the boy was also unaware, for that matter.) So yeah, I can rationalize not immediately doing something, especially depending on what the world is like. I have no idea what consequences she might face, or how possible it is for Nino to start a new life, or how the boy might react. I can certainly believe that if someone living there seemingly didn’t think it was that bad (he’d try to run away with Nino or something if he did, I’d think), Elaina could also talk herself into understating things. People in these situations see things that should be red flags and don’t put everything together until after the fact all the time — I can give you a long list of anecdotes I’ve seen this year alone. Hindsight is 20/20. She eventually realizes the entire magnitude of the situation some time after having left. The timing isn’t exactly clear so it’s hard to say if it would’ve taken minutes to go back or hours. It seems like she jumps to the conclusion that Nino has probably committed suicide, which... yeah, very possible. Should she go back and try to do something? Absolutely. That being said, I can’t imagine being clearheaded in that situation. She just realized she’s partially responsible for that sadness and likely death — she encouraged the boy to show Nino something heartbreaking. She could’ve simply remembered this story, or realized just how frayed Nino’s mental state must’ve been, or even just spoken up about how cruel the chief was being, instead of being a bystander. She doesn’t know what to do about this situation, and she’s terrified of going back — of facing the truth — and of getting into trouble. All she knows is to run from it, and who knows, maybe things aren’t actually that bad, maybe she’s still overthinking it. If she never goes back, then she never has to know. She can just pretend the world isn’t that terrible of a place, and for all she’ll know, she’s right. So yeah, selfish decision. Incorrect decision. One I hope the show plays off of, because this is something she should deeply regret — that next time she has the power to help people, she remembers this and takes it. But absolutely one I can see someone this childish and naive making. Elaina is far from perfect in this situation, but that didn’t stop me from enjoying the depressing episode that hit all the dark notes it was trying for. I don’t know if they’re going to develop her off of this/the rest of her adventure (I think/hope they are) — maybe she will just be be tinged by these haughty, selfish feelings this whole time. I don’t think that would necessarily be awful either — it’d be a unique direction at least. EDIT: Also I just want throw out that everyone getting upset with Elaina’s decisions here might’ve been the whole point of the episode lol. I’m disappointed with her too, but I don’t think that’s bad writing — I wanted to feel more from this show, and this episode really succeeded there. |
MistralsOct 17, 2020 6:05 PM
| About the scene where Nino drops the jar Light Novel "To be honest, I couldn't watch it. It was extremely unpleasant. It was disagreeable. I pulled the chair, squatted down next to the glass fragments, and took out my staff" She is empathetic, but tries not to get too involved in other people's lives |
AncapCrazyBROct 17, 2020 6:25 PM
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EpicPBear said: Its like an anime of The Witcher. This episode was interesting because it dealt with how much we can be expected to do in the face of evil. That is to say, carnivorous flowers are not evil, because its nature, but allowing a young man to be consumed by them is. Slavery is an evil, especially if the slave is abused and will likely be raped. Therefore Elaina is a morally bankrupt person, or an absolute coward to allow the situation to continue despite her power. I'm not saying that the show is bad, I just want everyone to know that if you stan Elaina, you're wrong. Yes slavery is evil in eyes of modern people and not eyes of that country. What should she have done? Kill slaver and free the slave? She would be enemy of state after that. And what then? Help other slaves? How many slaves she have to free? What to do with slaves? Imagine your ending in Roman Empire. How many slaves would you free? Would you raise up against the Empire like some Spartacus? We all know how that ended. People like to watch these hero movies/series where heroes saves people because that makes people feel good and righteous but in reality rarely anyone does anything. How many homeless people do you got in your house? When you travel to other countries do you save many people there? What about going to China and helping those Uighurs? No? Why not? Nah.. We rather just watch some hero movies from TV because that is all we really do in the end. That is how we justify our "righteous minds" because we don't do shit about anything. Then we get angry when something like this happens in our entertainment. Something realistic and grey. Not black and white. |
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| @Mistrals_ my problem with it and why i think it's bad writing is that she doesn't seem to learn anything from it. she doesn't get worse or better or even change in the slightest as more mature, but just wallows around as mediocre and shallow. you could make a mute bird flying around the protagonist and get the same story. there are plenty of gray characters i enjoy Kino(kino no tabi), Ginko(mushishi), Leleuch(code guess.), enma ai (hell girl.) aleister crowley (toaru,) Karin Ishida (shangri la) Rhineford, Guin Sard (Turn A gundam.) Promethstien (visual novel monster girl quest.) the serial killer Kelkan ( visual novel inganock) Fumika (Shigofumi) revi (black lagoon.)hell my current avatar reimu hakurei from touhou is considered a gray zone character (especially after Forbidden scrollery.) and shes one of my all time favorite anime characters. compared to all the ones i listed this one fells flat. |
GrimAtramentOct 17, 2020 11:56 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
hazarddex said: @Mistrals_ my problem with it and why i think it's bad writing is that she doesn't seem to learn anything from it. she doesn't get worse or better or even change in the slightest as more mature, but just wallows around as mediocre and shallow. you could make a mute bird flying around the protagonist and get the same story. there are plenty of gray characters i enjoy Kino(kino no tabi), Ginko(mushishi), Leleuch(code guess.), enma ai (hell girl.) aleister crowley (toaru,) Karin Ishida (shangri la) Rhineford, Guin Sard (Turn A gundam.) Promethstien (visual novel monster girl quest.) the serial killer Kelkan ( visual novel inganock) Fumika (Shigofumi) hell my current avatar reimu hakurei from touhou is considered a gray zone character (especially after Forbidden scrollery.) and shes one of my all time favorite anime characters. compared to all the ones i listed this one fells flat. Well, I haven’t read the novels, so if that’s the case and they’re also still trying to play off the relatability factor, that’s a little disappointing because it seems like a good way to set up growth for future episodes. The concept of this show seems like it would play off the growth of Elaina well, much like similar shows develop their MCs. |
Mistrals_ said: hazarddex said: @Mistrals_ my problem with it and why i think it's bad writing is that she doesn't seem to learn anything from it. she doesn't get worse or better or even change in the slightest as more mature, but just wallows around as mediocre and shallow. you could make a mute bird flying around the protagonist and get the same story. there are plenty of gray characters i enjoy Kino(kino no tabi), Ginko(mushishi), Leleuch(code guess.), enma ai (hell girl.) aleister crowley (toaru,) Karin Ishida (shangri la) Rhineford, Guin Sard (Turn A gundam.) Promethstien (visual novel monster girl quest.) the serial killer Kelkan ( visual novel inganock) Fumika (Shigofumi) hell my current avatar reimu hakurei from touhou is considered a gray zone character (especially after Forbidden scrollery.) and shes one of my all time favorite anime characters. compared to all the ones i listed this one fells flat. Well, I haven’t read the novels, so if that’s the case and they’re also still trying to play off the relatability factor, that’s a little disappointing because it seems like a good way to set up growth for future episodes. The concept of this show seems like it would play off the growth of Elaina well, much like similar shows develop their MCs. there are not a lot of translations for the novels out so maybe the anime will reach those and prove me wrong, but from the currently translated ones shes feels lackluster and very 1 dimensional. a series with darker content then this but more complex gray characters i would recommend is franken fran (which will probably never get an anime because how gory the manga gets.) the main character does a ton of fucked up stuff, but her reasons behind them sound and seem realistic. (for example she turns a group of mercenary her assassin sister butchered. into a human centipede. to "save them." ) because in her mindset as a doctor death is the most "evil" thing in the world. a lot of people tend to forget the appeal of a gray moral character is there complex mindset. but Elaina lacks this quality shes not complex shes simple and disturbingly simple. |
GrimAtramentOct 17, 2020 7:18 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
apep23 said: HistoricalMaize said: Do you guys even understand the utter bullshit of the phrase " Just because you are doing something for someone else doesn't make it right" in this context? you guys are saying that destroying the flower field and stop a lot of future deaths is not correct, did I get that right? and you are also implying that stopping the sexual abuse of a minor is not correct, what? You can argue that it is complicated to solve but saying that it is not correct is just concerning and before you argue that that makes Elaina s character more "human" that is just wrong because a human in those situations would be actually powerless to do anything, in Elainas case she can solve both issues wavering her wand with the second situations being harder to solve of course but still, now if you want to say that Elaina is mentally uncapable of seeing what I just said fine but you guys should be able to. Not that i don't understand any of the raged guys. But know this for instance, she's a witch and witch do thing alone from their own core, not just your daily magician that put the premise that her wand should be used to justify something in case of that morality of majority talks. And see what the boy do there? Showing something that in his mind that'll make her happy by showing things that she can't enjoy and make her more and more in despair. She knows that too, and after she helps her to escape the mansion itself, and leaves her somewhere in country that the maid doesn't have any ideas how to live and then continue her journey? Is it responsible? And if she wants to settle down, what is the meaning of having diary that record her journey? People these day got fed by your usual isekai theme that magic and sword should be used to save lots of things, see shield hero and saw reality in there for once. When the bow guy saves a country that they told him have some bad governor then after the war they suffers from famine and that bow guy just want some fame out of it and irresponsible about the aftermath. If you tell me that when you can't do anything and do something rash that could endanger myself mentally or physically, should I do that? What if another action like she commit suicide and after elaina helps her, then the blame put on her shoulder too the problem with Eaina for me isn't that she didn't help them, but that she flat as fk in terms of characters development and this flatness hasn't improved. also it's funny you use shield hero because even if the MC knows he can't help everyone he still tries (untill he turns into edgy uncooperative Misantrope later in the manga after he gets his revenge.) shield hero had a good first arc, but the manga gets shitty because after he gets his revenge he turns into a whinny edge lord of "let the world burn i don't like these people anyways." person. (hello earth to dingus you currently live in that world too.) seems like a case of the author doesn't know what to do with the story afterwards. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| That was a fantastic episode for me, I did not expect this show to become this dark and this episode was so so dark. But, it did and it delivered though the first story was kind of short. I understand where everyone is coming from but, this is a fantasy world with who knows what kind of creatures and laws that they have in here. And as many said Elaina is not a hero, she just wants to travel the world. And if you didn't notice Elaina is not heartless, she contemplated if she was going to use magic on the fat dude. But, she didn't as not to cause trouble since that would be against the law I suppose. Yeah she could have done something but, if this were real life and we were her I am sure like 90% of people would do the same as Elaina. She didn't do anything but, she didn't do anything wrong either she is just a bystander. And that makes her an interesting character. |
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Very minor editing mistake: at roughly 4:14, when a man with a horse-drawn carriage is entering the castle, his foot and shadow briefly clip beneath the overlay for the castle entrance |
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| More episodes like this please, I love depressing shit like this. |
私のホバークラフトはウナギでいっぱいです。 |
| wait what?? why every case have some unsettling ending. I feel kinda uneasy about it. yoo Elaiana you doing good? In the first case did everyone turned into zombie 'cause elaina bring that boqquete and ended up getting it burned? yeaa I can't fully blame her maybe she doesnt have any idea either. and the next.. she just remembered that the story of the husband and the wife ended up f**ked. does that mean Nino would do the some?? like Elaina, I don't know what happen, no I don't even want to know. Great show btw can't wait for the next |
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| The dark theme remind me of Kino no Tabi episodes. It felt really similar now :( |
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hazarddex said: the problem with Eaina for me isn't that she didn't help them, but that she flat as fk in terms of characters development and this flatness hasn't improved. Questions: 1. What counts as a "simple" character versus "complex" character? Does hearing internal monologue about how a character views their reality = "complex" character, and no monoloque = "simple" character? 2. Why do you insist that a character needs to undergo some change, a.k.a. "character development"? Does "Oh I learned to better myself and do this instead of that" = good anime? ------------------------- Mod Note: Removed response to deleted post |
dipItFooOct 18, 2020 8:42 PM
Opticflash said: hazarddex said: the problem with Eaina for me isn't that she didn't help them, but that she flat as fk in terms of characters development and this flatness hasn't improved. Questions: 1. What counts as a "simple" character versus "complex" character? Does hearing internal monologue about how a character views their reality = "complex" character, and no monoloque = "simple" character? 2. Why do you insist that a character needs to undergo some change, a.k.a. "character development"? Does "Oh I learned to better myself and do this instead of that" = good anime? if you have a character that doesn't do anything doesn't contribute anything and is just "there." what point do they serve? if you could replace there character with anything they are not a character they are a prop. hence they are a simple incomplete character they don't really have any philosophies they just move to one place to another. hence you don't need them you could just as easily make a series of different events that take place in this world without them. you can call isekai's like reincarnated as a slime lame but at least the main character has weight he feels like he has a presence and emotions objectives goals ideals and philosophies. Elaina doesn't really serve a vital role you could make just about any random characters take her place and they would work. Kino no tabi keeps kino interesting by having situations that challenge how she views the world and how she reacts to it and when shes not needed in a certain story it switches to the other protagonist which is the prince. Mushishi stories are interesting because the main character himself is interesting and how he views the world and engages with it is interesting. does Elaina serve a narrative purpose other then being "the view point."? from what i can see no she doesn't other then to remind the audience how "cute." she is. she is a weightless character. but hey at least 1 volume (volume 5.) will be one not translated so lets see if she actually becomes more then a prop in that one. Opticflash said: Not only is this egregiously inaccurate but the mental hoops one has to jump through to justify Elaina being at fault for the boy giving his love a bottle is astounding. if you said "wouldn't it be nice to give them a present." about a bottle of poison and then that person took your advice and gave said bottle of poison of some one you would at best end up with Reckless endangerment charges at worst an associate in murder/manslaughter. i'm afraid legal systems are not very forgiving when it comes to things like that, but thats reality. |
GrimAtramentOct 17, 2020 11:53 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: if you have a character that doesn't do anything doesn't contribute anything and is just "there." what point do they serve? if you could replace there character with anything they are not a character they are a prop. hence they are a simple incomplete character they don't really have any philosophies they just move to one place to another. hence you don't need them you could just as easily make a series of different events that take place in this world without them. You're correct. Characters are props and they have always been props, nothing more and nothing less. Here's another thing you should know also. Any character in any series could be replaced with another character and it would make minimal difference. It's evident that you are not viewing anime from a holistic perspective. Let me explain what I mean by this. You insist a main character necessarily needs to have a complex background or upbringing, or else internal dialogue showing their frame of mind in order for fiction to be good fiction. You are neglecting: 1. Time spent on certain scenes and imagery to portray an idea as a substitute for "internal monologue". What is the aim of the episode? Does the scene or imagery portray an idea more effectively than internal monologue? If so, why should one prefer internal monologue over depiction of such scenes from outside the character's perspective? There is limited time per episode to impart a message. 2. The overarching plot premise or purpose. Does the author want to show how peoples minds are swayed by their surroundings as a reflection of real life? Then internal monologue is appropriate. However what if the author aimed for more action packed writing? Is internal monologue or detailed upbringing appropriate for the story and the genre? For example characters in comedy are often goofy and erratic and rarely have internal monologues. In fact, their "simplicity" or "weightlessness" is what makes a comedy a comedy and works in the genre's favor. Having some detailed upbringing of such characters goes against the objective of such stories in general. Your insistence that there needs to be some internal monologue to Elaina or some detailed upbringing in order for the work to be good completely disregards the author's intentions and whether such aspects are appropriate or most effective for what the author wants to convey. You try to pass judgement based on a rigid set of criteria but not thinking about whether such criteria is appropriate for what you're trying to judge. A more holistic perspective takes into account what a piece of fiction tries to present and how they present it. hazarddex said: question: i noticed all your comments got deleted by the mods are you sure you want to keep at this? Yep. If the mods have a problem with what I'm writing, they should speak to me and explain why. hazarddex said: if you said "wouldn't it be nice to give them a present." about a bottle of poison and then that person took your advice and gave said bottle of poison of some one you would at best end up with Reckless endangerment charges at worst an associate in murder/manslaughter. i'm afraid legal systems are not very forgiving when it comes to things like that, but thats reality. 1. I'm pretty sure the boy was going to give the bottle to his love of his own accord and only told Elaina what he was going to do. 2. I'm pretty sure I won't get charged if I gave someone a physically harmless object and a week later they decided to commit suicide, e.g. I give someone old family photos online and they commit suicide a week later because they couldn't accept that their family is no longer with them. There you go with the mental jumps again of equating actual poison with a harmless object or artefact. |
OpticflashOct 18, 2020 12:20 AM
Opticflash said: hazarddex said: if you have a character that doesn't do anything doesn't contribute anything and is just "there." what point do they serve? if you could replace there character with anything they are not a character they are a prop. hence they are a simple incomplete character they don't really have any philosophies they just move to one place to another. hence you don't need them you could just as easily make a series of different events that take place in this world without them. You're correct. Characters are props and they have always been props, nothing more and nothing less. Here's another thing you should know also. Any character in any series could be replaced with another character and it would make minimal difference. It's evident that you are not viewing anime from a holistic perspective. Let me explain what I mean by this. You insist a main character necessarily needs to have a complex background or upbringing, or else internal dialogue showing their frame of mind in order for fiction to be good fiction. You are neglecting: 1. Time spent on certain scenes and imagery to portray an idea as a substitute for "internal monologue". What is the aim of the episode? Does the scene or imagery portray an idea more effectively than internal monologue? If so, why should one prefer internal monologue over depiction of such scenes from outside the character's perspective? There is limited time per episode to impart a message. 2. The overarching plot premise or purpose. Does the author want to show how peoples minds are swayed by their surroundings as a reflection of real life? Then internal monologue is appropriate. However what if the author aimed for more action packed writing? Is internal monologue or detailed upbringing appropriate for the story and the genre? For example characters in comedy are often goofy and erratic and rarely have internal monologues. In fact, their "simplicity" or "weightlessness" is what makes a comedy a comedy and works in the genre's favor. Having some detailed upbringing of such characters goes against the objective of such stories in general. Your insistence that there needs to be some internal monologue to Elaina or some detailed upbringing in order for the work to be good completely disregards the author's intentions and whether such aspects are appropriate or most effective for what the author wants to convey. You try to pass judgement based on a rigid set of criteria but not thinking about whether such criteria is appropriate for what you're trying to judge. A more holistic perspective takes into account what a piece of fiction tries to present and how they present it. hazarddex said: question: i noticed all your comments got deleted by the mods are you sure you want to keep at this? Yep. If the mods have a problem with what I'm writing, they should speak to me and explain why. i am and i am say the author is doing a shit job and that i just name numerous series do what this series "attempting." to do better. a character that just moves form place to place, but has no weight on the places and things they see is not a very good character the most apathetic character i know from a travel based episodic series mushishi still has a LOT of weight and character compared to this series protagonist of the 4 translated novels. also this isn't a comedy and is not meant to be viewed as one so such a simplistic character like hers doesn't fit the narrative. if you put tom and jerry in to berserk would they seem like they belonged there? but again i've not read volume 5 as it's not translated so maybe when we get to that point i will be proven wrong. i enjoy being proven wrong, but sadly when it comes to fictional narratives i usually am not. that object wasn't a "Harmless object." it was a bottle that sucked the happiness out of a person. so yes it's very much the magical equivalent to POISON. i don't know how you equate bottle that sucks all the happiness you ever had or will have out of you to "Not." harmful. but i'm pretty sure most clinically depressed people would disagree with you about severe depression being "harmless." |
GrimAtramentOct 18, 2020 12:32 AM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: i am and i am say the author is doing a shit job and that i just name numerous series do what this series "attempting." to do better. a character that just moves form place to place, but has no weight on the places and things they see is not a very good character the most apathetic character i know from a travel based episodic series mushishi still has a LOT of weight and character compared to this series protagonist of the 4 translated novels. also this isn't a comedy and is not meant to be viewed as one so such a simplistic character like hers doesn't fit the narrative. if you put tom and jerry in to berserk would they seem like they belonged there? It seems like you've failed to grasp my point. Your insistence that we need to hear Elaina's internal thoughts completely disregards the plot points or messages the author tries to convey and how. Take episode 3 for example: The author tried to convey the idea that doing good works for someone may not necessarily result in a happy ending. In order to do this, the author tried to establish Elaina's surroundings as a medium for conveying this message; by looking at characters' interactions and how their actions may result in misfortune. Of course there are many ways to depict this; Elaina trying to save someone which ends up as a catastrophic failure with Elaina feeling guilty is one example that the author did not employ. Given this theme, does Elaina's internal monologue detailing how she thinks as a character reflect on what the author wants to convey? No it does not, it's inappropriate for the plot save for the fact that Elaina's voice is used when she reminisces about the stories she's read on tragic endings. 1. What is the author's message? That doing good works may not always result in happy endings. 2. Did the characters' actions portray this idea well? Were their actions reasonable? 3. What was the tone of the animation? Are there any color contrasts that aid in the author's message? 4. Does the soundtrack at certain moments emphasize the message? 5. What is appropriate for the message, and inappropriate/unrelated to the message that should be left out? Is internal monologue of a character appropriate in this context? A comedy is certainly an example of when simplistic characters work well. No this isn't a comedy, but that does not mean "complex" characters are appropriate or even effective for what the author wants to convey or write about. hazarddex said: that object wasn't a "Harmless object." it was a bottle that sucked the happiness out of a person. so yes it's very much the magical equivalent to POISON. And where was this in the anime again? BTW this is the anime, not the light novel. |
OpticflashOct 18, 2020 12:46 AM
Opticflash said: hazarddex said: i am and i am say the author is doing a shit job and that i just name numerous series do what this series "attempting." to do better. a character that just moves form place to place, but has no weight on the places and things they see is not a very good character the most apathetic character i know from a travel based episodic series mushishi still has a LOT of weight and character compared to this series protagonist of the 4 translated novels. also this isn't a comedy and is not meant to be viewed as one so such a simplistic character like hers doesn't fit the narrative. if you put tom and jerry in to berserk would they seem like they belonged there? It seems like you've failed to grasp my point. Your insistence that we need to hear Elaina's internal thoughts completely disregards the plot points or messages the author tries to convey and how. Take episode 3 for example: The author tried to convey the idea that doing good works for someone may not necessarily result in a happy ending. In order to do this, the author tried to establish Elaina's surroundings as a medium for conveying this message; by looking at characters' interactions and how their actions may result in misfortune. Of course there are many ways to depict this; Elaina trying to save someone which ends up as a catastrophic failure with Elaina feeling guilty is one example that the author did not employ. Given this theme, does Elaina's internal monologue detailing how she thinks as a character reflect on what the author wants to convey? No it does not, it's inappropriate for the plot save for the fact that Elaina's voice is used when she reminisces about the stories she's read on tragic endings. 1. What is the author's message? That doing good works may not always result in happy endings. 2. Did the characters' actions portray this idea well? Were their actions reasonable? 3. What was the tone of the animation? Are there any color contrasts that aid in the author's message? 4. Does the soundtrack at certain moments emphasize the message? 5. What is appropriate for the message, and inappropriate/unrelated to the message that should be left out? Is internal monologue of a character appropriate in this context? A comedy is certainly an example of when simplistic characters work well. No this isn't a comedy, but that does not mean "complex" characters are appropriate or even effective for what the author wants to convey or write about. hazarddex said: that object wasn't a "Harmless object." it was a bottle that sucked the happiness out of a person. so yes it's very much the magical equivalent to POISON. And where was this in the anime again? BTW this is the anime, not the light novel. the devil is in the details even without the LN context you they give you the details in the anime it's rather easy to peace together as well. the bottle was never "harmless." 1. What is the author's message? That doing good works may not always result in happy endings. there are other series that give that message better. for example and it's only 1:57 long and still does a better job. 2. Did the characters' actions portray this idea well? Were their actions reasonable? no and a lot of there actions were unreasonable. 3. What was the tone of the animation? Are there any color contrasts that aid in the author's message? using a lot of bright and happy colors didn't really help send the message. like using the rainbow effect for the bottle opening. (i would have gone for more dark and ominous color tones for that so people like you clearly did don't mistaken what the bottle actually does.) 4. Does the soundtrack at certain moments emphasize the message? not really no 5. What is appropriate for the message, and inappropriate/unrelated to the message that should be left out? Is internal monologue of a character appropriate in this context? a deeper and more in depth monologue that gave us a better understanding of her psyche would have been better in both anime and LN. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| I actually liked how this episode was handled. I felt kinda sad for Nino, who's most likely the little sister of Saya. I hope she will find true happiness one day. Although a lot of people might not agree with me, I personally find Elaina's arrogant and narcissistic personality appealing. Maybe because I'm a narcissist myself. |
IrrelevantGuy said: I hope she will find true happiness one day not sure if you missed it, but shes dead. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: IrrelevantGuy said: I hope she will find true happiness one day not sure if you missed it, but shes dead. Wait, what? I thought what happened to her afterwards wasn't shown. |
| A bit disappointed in the adaptation of the flower field chapter, I didn't read the novel but in the manga there was far more meat to it than what we saw here. We didn't even get the backstory on the couple and what their deal is which was basically the punchline of the story. Second story was fine. That tiny little detail where Nino leaves the village chief's room tying up her dress left a really sour taste in my mouth and it's the type of thing you can easily miss. Animation as usual is great, not on the levels of Violet Evergarden or anything but it's definitely pleasant to look at. |
did you not see how she went "oh right at the end of the story." and zooms in on the knife. the LN goes into more details, but it's basically said without being said that Nina killed herself. anyways i believe @SolidusDiabolos and a few others already gave solid criticism on the issues with Elaina falt character. if the anime fixes it these up before the end i probably will watch the rest, but right now the current 3 episodes of the animes reminding me why i lost interests with the novel to begin with. |
GrimAtramentOct 18, 2020 1:49 AM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: did you not see how she went "oh right at the end of the story." and zooms in on the knife. the LN goes into more details, but it's basically said without being said that Nina killed herself. That doesn't necessarily mean she's dead, though. Unless it is actually clarified in the light novel, that scene can be interpreted however the viewers want to. |
IrrelevantGuy said: hazarddex said: did you not see how she went "oh right at the end of the story." and zooms in on the knife. the LN goes into more details, but it's basically said without being said that Nina killed herself. That doesn't necessarily mean she's dead, though. Unless it is actually clarified in the light novel, that scene can be interpreted however the viewers want to. the LN doesn't leave much to be interpreted other that she either A: killed the boy and the family she was elsaved by (unlikely.) or B: killed herself (more likely.) |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| At first her behaviour left me puzzled, but after some thinking I realised it might be interesting to see something different from the selfless hero. However, I'm also curious to see if she will ever change. |
| The slave part is one thing, but the flower part she totally could have destroyed the field. From what i understood, SHE was the cause of the guard going there so people saying that she was just a bystander are wrong and dumb. She directly caused the guy to go there so it was her fault. The flower part was garbage. The story was short as hell and ended in a stupid way...it was pointless to even show it. |
I despise woke people. |
| This episode was kind of depressing. I feel really sad for Nino. Sadly Elaina couldn't do anything. Hope the next episode will be more cheerful. |
 |
Ilya1321 said: Ryoketsu said: I believe that this discussion is only going so far because the story is not well written. The protagonist's non-interference could make total sense and not seem as out of place as it seems, but the anime failed to properly establish the reasons for this. Interesting ideas, bad episode in general. No everything from the LN is here. Again, a reminder to watch again episode one, her promises to her mother. as to why Elaina is not interfering. She's a traveler not a hero It may not be an error in the text itself, but the episode's presentation was flawed and really made it look out of place, right after she helped someone in the previous episode. In addition, the three promises are as follows: 1) Run away if she was about to face danger. 2) Do not think that she is special, as she is a person like others. 3) Return home one day. I don't know what kind of interpretation you made of them, but to me there doesn't seem to be a point that says "don't interfere with the injustices of the world, don't play heroin". Elaina didn't choose to just be an observer to keep a promise, she didn't act because she didn't want to act. I can accept that choice, but the anime needed to show her reasons. It didn't. |
| "If someone says it's wrong to hope, I'll tell them they're wrong every single time." |
apep23 said: HistoricalMaize said: Do you guys even understand the utter bullshit of the phrase " Just because you are doing something for someone else doesn't make it right" in this context? you guys are saying that destroying the flower field and stop a lot of future deaths is not correct, did I get that right? and you are also implying that stopping the sexual abuse of a minor is not correct, what? You can argue that it is complicated to solve but saying that it is not correct is just concerning and before you argue that that makes Elaina s character more "human" that is just wrong because a human in those situations would be actually powerless to do anything, in Elainas case she can solve both issues wavering her wand with the second situations being harder to solve of course but still, now if you want to say that Elaina is mentally uncapable of seeing what I just said fine but you guys should be able to. Not that i don't understand any of the raged guys. But know this for instance, she's a witch and witch do thing alone from their own core, not just your daily magician that put the premise that her wand should be used to justify something in case of that morality of majority talks. And see what the boy do there? Showing something that in his mind that'll make her happy by showing things that she can't enjoy and make her more and more in despair. She knows that too, and after she helps her to escape the mansion itself, and leaves her somewhere in country that the maid doesn't have any ideas how to live and then continue her journey? Is it responsible? And if she wants to settle down, what is the meaning of having diary that record her journey? People these day got fed by your usual isekai theme that magic and sword should be used to save lots of things, see shield hero and saw reality in there for once. When the bow guy saves a country that they told him have some bad governor then after the war they suffers from famine and that bow guy just want some fame out of it and irresponsible about the aftermath. If you tell me that when you can't do anything and do something rash that could endanger myself mentally or physically, should I do that? What if another action like she commit suicide and after elaina helps her, then the blame put on her shoulder too I was refering to the dude that was saying that "Just because you are doing something for someone else doesn't make it right" is a good advice when it is really flawed because even in the example you gave about the bow hero in rising of the shield hero the bow hero did nothing wrong as far as I remember like he helped that country and then he went on his way its not his fault that the people there just decided to repeat everything all over again and even if I agreed with the example you just gave whats the excuse for her not to destroy the flower field? like sure burning it would do more harm than good but with magic you have a lot more ways to destroy that field and save a lot of lives and again it would be way easier for me to accept Elainas actions if she was a common mortal with no power in that situation I would see her as actually powerless to do anything but the truth is witchs are almost gods in that world they can do pretty much anything besides resurecting people and I have seen people saying that despite all of this somehow this makes her character more human and I am here thinking if a human in our world could solve so many problems by waving a wand and he did not he would be considered a sociopath. |
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| ep 3 already and i never expected this to be a bit dark... 4/5. |
 |
First half was meh but 2nd one was great, I did not expect it to go that dark. This episode also served as a good normie and SJW filter. |
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