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| As mainstream as it may be, this anime is pretty well done and enjoyable. I didn't really expect it to grow on me, but here we are~ |
VKDOOM said: 1. About being sold, have you heard of outsourcing? And yes they had the choice to leave. But everyone has a choice. About being an alt right troll, maybe you should read some real history before attacking peoplenightcrawlercyp said: You say comparing a 9 to 5 job to slavery is incorrect, but you base this just on not seeing physical chains. But it is virtually the same thing. Wage slavery is a thing. Also please understand that in slavery one can sell himself as a slave for a time to pay off some debt or gain some material gains . So considering this one can understand why 9 to 5 jobs are slavery. You sell most of your time for money that are just above the money you need to survive. In ancient slavery the slave owner would assure for you food, clothing, shelter and even some spending money in some cases but never enough to exit the state of slave. In modern wage slavery you get paid just enough to go on not enough to exit the situation. In the end in both you sell time of your life. And if you believe you can just leave , well you can but then what? Choose a diferent slave owner and hope for the best? starve? go to jail? About having the choice to get the job, the slaves had the choice also to leave in most cases. yes there were consequences and as there are consequences if you just leave your job. The miners that were scrip slaves had the choice to leave . So yes you can choose to leave and die, can choose to change your owner or choose to stay. Unfortunately the option to be free and be paid for the result of your work rather than your time is not available so much in this day. To compare them is still absolutely stupid considering an employee is not bound to work for that company and can choose to do whatever he/she wants with his/her time. A slave is sold to somebody else and is forced to do their bidding. To compare the two is some kind of shit only an alt right troll would think of. |
| Hold up... NANI KORE?! Raphtalia transformed from a loli to a more grown up racoon girl with a tsundere attitude! It's probably been weeks at most, so how? Level ups caused this? Well, that's cool. I can really feel that painful hatred Naofumi had when he met with the other heroes in the hourglass building. Hopefully, one day, they'll see... I love it when Raphtalia become mad when Naofumi said that the knights don't care if they're within the attack range. Besides that, the animation when she fights alongside Naofumi was fantastic! Well despite the fact that Naofumi himself doesn't slay any significant monster in this wave, he did something which none of the other 3 heroes did. Naofumi, the shield hero saved an entire town from being completely slaughtered! Andddd now I have to wait for the next ep to be released... |
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ACornelis said: Wow, this episode was so garbage. It was on the same level as Sword art Online when it comes to incompetent writing and directing. If you enjoyed this episode i really need you to watch it again and pay attention to what's going on because you clearly missed how poor and dumb it was. If there's one thing I don't need to read again to understand how poor and dumb it is it's definitely this comment lol |
vhagar8 said: ACornelis said: Wow, this episode was so garbage. It was on the same level as Sword art Online when it comes to incompetent writing and directing. If you enjoyed this episode i really need you to watch it again and pay attention to what's going on because you clearly missed how poor and dumb it was. If there's one thing I don't need to read again to understand how poor and dumb it is it's definitely this comment lol Was it dumb because you love the show? Care to elaborate? Seems like i caught a Reki Kawahara fanboy. |
ACornelisJan 26, 2019 3:28 PM
| REVIVE MECHA |
ShadowZ_AnimeZ said: Hold up... NANI KORE?! Raphtalia transformed from a loli to a more grown up racoon girl with a tsundere attitude! It's probably been weeks at most, so how? Level ups caused this? Well, that's cool.[/color] Literally 5 seconds into the show Naofumi says that the fight in the coal pit, aka the fight with the two headed dog monster, was a week ago. |
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VKDOOM said: Reload said: @VKDOOM: All your complaining about is the MC's title: Master. With that logic, every series where the villain is killed by the protag, gives them the title: Murderer. If I were to compare this to RL, your implying military veterans are bad even though what they did was in service to their nation. Your basically comparing fiction to nonfiction. When watching/reading fiction in general, you should separate the two. Our concept of morality only applies if the setting establishes it. One example would be superhero comics. Most heroes make an effort to cherish all life, villains included. The protags usually live in a society where murder is unlawful and incarceration is the alternative. As for the alternative to slavery, it'd be contract jobs. One must complete a specific job within a specified time frame. MC and the other heroes in this series are no different. They were forcefully summoned from their respective worlds, and forced to fight for complete strangers till the waves stop. Hardly anyone brings attention to the fact that they themselves are slaves. You only decide to complain about it when the MC does it himself because he's actually tangible, as opposed to the ritual that summoned them. Talk about late. Does the fact that the other 3 heroes seeing it as a game and not incurring punishment justify them being forced to fight? They're teleported to the danger zone and can't return home until their job is done, so excessive force isn't even needed. Point I'm try to make is that the world the heroes were sent to does not see slavery as immoral; therefore, no attention is brought to it. The series doesn't depict it as good or bad. It's simply accepted in the world they were sent to. The reason Raphtalia was chosen to begin with was because she was already on death's door, and MC needed some justification for doing something he himself knew to be immoral. His justification was saving her life to prolong his own. If you believe the MC should release her afterward, then it becomes a question of when. I hope you don't believe the MC plans to remain a slave owner throughout the whole story. I also hope you didn't think the MC became a slave owner because he wanted to. If anything, he himself doesn't want to force anyone to do anything. This is the biggest difference between fiction and nonfiction. IRL, slave owners, good or bad, treated their slave(s) as property. Though Raphtalia calls herself the MC's sword, he doesn't once agree with her. There is no master-slave relationship between the two, so why bring attention to it? I'd complain as well if that's how they were depicted, but they aren't. Masters don't fight alongside slaves for a common goal, and slaves don't defend their masters of their own freewill. Can you really call it a master-servant relationship looking at their actions, and not their titles? In any case, the adaptation isn't finished yet. For all we know, attention may get brought to slavery later in the story. I've never watch GOT, but I'm pretty sure attention isn't brought to it every single episode. Your complaints are too early to judge the series as a whole. It isn't just his title. It is what he does, considering he acts like a slave owner as well. A "nice" one sure, but he clearly shows he owns her and he even hurts her to do things she doesn't want to do. Again, I am not saying you can't tell a story about someone who commands slaves, but this show is going about it in a very irresponsible way where we see this initial form of abuse and then it decides to just take a time skip from her young levels to where she looks like a grown up and the show now just pretends they are "equals", entirely just skipping what their relation really is. My issue is with how this relationship has been presented and all the problematic aspects of it are just skipped over. It actually feels kinda fucked up considering her trope of essentially worshiping this guy when he has a clear authority over her. You'll have to give examples of when he acts like a slave owner, and compare it with how a parent disciplines their child. I don't believe masters pet their slaves out of sympathy or when they do a good job. I wouldn't call his behavior "nice" in the slightest either. The MC is "indifferent" at best. If your not caught up on titles, then it's the few scenes that show the MC exercising dominance. I hope you weren't expecting him to continue exercising it during the time skip, when he clearly doesn't wish to. Notice how the MC doesn't do this in public. He's lucky he doesn't have to use a leash. Because it's a curse mark, I don't see how this is showing "he owns her and ... hurts her to do things..." If I were to compare this with Death March, he's taming/teaching her and doesn't have to lift a finger to do so. Remember how MC said slaves aren't people? If his actions don't reflect a parent-child relationship, then its a pet-owner relationship. If this was a depiction of a master-slave relationship, the slave would be shackled and the MC would be inflicting pain himself. This isn't irresponsible because he doesn't abuse his dominance. He even hides the fact he's a slave owner from the other heroes. The show isn't pretending they're "equals" when he does this. MC still doesn't see Raphtalia as an adult, and she doesn't go beyond calling herself his sword. If they were equals, it would show them having friendly conversations together. I wouldn't describe any of the conversions they've had as friendly. It seems the main problem here is that your misinterpreting everything. The time skip didn't skip over anything, except Raphtalia's growth and MC leveling up with her. Some may argue it also skipped them bonding, but we all know the MC ain't got time for that. Would've been nice to see her grow out of her clothing, and see how the MC reacts to it. Back to the subject, I can see how a slave admiring their master is so horrible, especially if they're a child. However, you're aware Raphtalia was told by her parents that the Shield Hero favors her kind and how previous masters treated her poorly, right? Of course, she'd be grateful she lived long enough to find a purpose in life besides being orphaned and tortured after her wish to meet said hero came true. The show isn't skipping anything important here. If this wasn't enough explanation, then wait for the show to explain itself. Your not wrong to say the problematic aspects of slavery should be shown, but hold your horses. The show isn't over yet. The show has a whole 20+ more episodes to shed some light on slavery. I'll repeat this one more time: MC's relationship with his slave, from the moment he bought her, isn't a master-slave relationship. Shedding light on the problematic aspects of slavery is not their role in the story. It's clear you wouldn't want them to fill this role by the looks of it either. Plz wait for a real master-slave relationship to appear before jumping to conclusions. |
ReloadJan 26, 2019 8:22 PM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
ACornelis said: vhagar8 said: If there's one thing I don't need to read again to understand how poor and dumb it is it's definitely this comment lol Was it dumb because you love the show? Care to elaborate? Seems like i caught a Reki Kawahara fanboy. Welp your reasons were indeed dumb .Since her growing up physically and mentally in a span of a week will be explained (timeskip = 1 week was already mentioned) .the animation quality has nothing to do with bad writing and it wasn't as bad as you are making it out to be .they(the 3 heroes) went for the boss first since killing the boss would award them the most and there was already a troup that was sent to the village And all of those are obvious but well it looks like you are the one who is like reki :/ People just wanna come up with anything to hate |
| Most underated anime on mal: https://myanimelist.net/anime/4651/Yume_no_Crayon_Oukoku?q=Yume%20ni%20crayon |
ACornelis said: vhagar8 said: If there's one thing I don't need to read again to understand how poor and dumb it is it's definitely this comment lol Was it dumb because you love the show? Care to elaborate? Seems like i caught a Reki Kawahara fanboy. Ur kidding right? Are u seriously telling me "Care to elaborate?" after u just throw random insults without providing any argument? Shouldn't I be the one saying "Care to elaborate"? Incopent writing u say, fucking where? A comment by a 8 year old kid who thinks he's so smart he doesn't need to provide evidence to support what he says because he rather spend that time shittalking on others for no real reason is dumb indeed |
Akerakai said: ACornelis said: Was it dumb because you love the show? Care to elaborate? Seems like i caught a Reki Kawahara fanboy. Welp your reasons were indeed dumb .Since her growing up physically and mentally in a span of a week will be explained (timeskip = 1 week was already mentioned) .the animation quality has nothing to do with bad writing and it wasn't as bad as you are making it out to be .they(the 3 heroes) went for the boss first since killing the boss would award them the most and there was already a troup that was sent to the village And all of those are obvious but well it looks like you are the one who is like reki :/ People just wanna come up with anything to hate This was the dumbest comment i've ever read, period. I would care to explain why you're wrong but of all the isekai lovers that have been attacking me you're probably the most boring and uninteresting one. |
| REVIVE MECHA |
ACornelis said: that's cause you can't lmao and sorry for not being able to entertain you even tho i am not supposed to :(Akerakai said: Welp your reasons were indeed dumb .Since her growing up physically and mentally in a span of a week will be explained (timeskip = 1 week was already mentioned) .the animation quality has nothing to do with bad writing and it wasn't as bad as you are making it out to be .they(the 3 heroes) went for the boss first since killing the boss would award them the most and there was already a troup that was sent to the village And all of those are obvious but well it looks like you are the one who is like reki :/ People just wanna come up with anything to hate This was the dumbest comment i've ever read, period. I would care to explain why you're wrong but of all the isekai lovers that have been attacking me you're probably the most boring and uninteresting one. |
| Most underated anime on mal: https://myanimelist.net/anime/4651/Yume_no_Crayon_Oukoku?q=Yume%20ni%20crayon |
Demyx_IX said: ShadowZ_AnimeZ said: Hold up... NANI KORE?! Raphtalia transformed from a loli to a more grown up racoon girl with a tsundere attitude! It's probably been weeks at most, so how? Level ups caused this? Well, that's cool.[/color] Literally 5 seconds into the show Naofumi says that the fight in the coal pit, aka the fight with the two headed dog monster, was a week ago. K I missed that... |
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clarazora said: it's not even close to being that badThis episode was garbage. Is this like SAO where people won't realize it's bad until way later on? What's up with the character writing in this show? It's so bad but somehow gets a pass. Must be fanboys huh |
| Most underated anime on mal: https://myanimelist.net/anime/4651/Yume_no_Crayon_Oukoku?q=Yume%20ni%20crayon |
VKDOOM said: Reload said: You'll have to give examples of when he acts like a slave owner, and compare it with how a parent disciplines their child. I don't believe masters pet their slaves out of sympathy or when they do a good job. I wouldn't call his behavior "nice" in the slightest either. The MC is "indifferent" at best. If your not caught up on titles, then it's the few scenes that show the MC exercising dominance. I hope you weren't expecting him to continue exercising it during the time skip, when he clearly doesn't wish to. Notice how the MC doesn't do this in public. He's lucky he doesn't have to use a leash. Because it's a curse mark, I don't see how this is showing "he owns her and ... hurts her to do things..." If I were to compare this with Death March, he's taming/teaching her and doesn't have to lift a finger to do so. Remember how MC said slaves aren't people? If his actions don't reflect a parent-child relationship, then its a pet-owner relationship. If this was a depiction of a master-slave relationship, the slave would be shackled and the MC would be inflicting pain himself. This isn't irresponsible because he doesn't abuse his dominance. He even hides the fact he's a slave owner from the other heroes. The show isn't pretending they're "equals" when he does this. MC still doesn't see Raphtalia as an adult, and she doesn't go beyond calling herself his sword. If they were equals, it would show them having friendly conversations together. I wouldn't describe any of the conversions they've had as friendly. It seems the main problem here is that your misinterpreting everything. The time skip didn't skip over anything, except Raphtalia's growth and MC leveling up with her. Some may argue it also skipped them bonding, but we all know the MC ain't got time for that. Would've been nice to see her grow out of her clothing, and see how the MC reacts to it. Back to the subject, I can see how a slave admiring their master is so horrible, especially if they're a child. However, you're aware Raphtalia was told by her parents that the Shield Hero favors her kind and how previous masters treated her poorly, right? Of course, she'd be grateful she lived long enough to find a purpose in life besides being orphaned and tortured after her wish to meet said hero came true. The show isn't skipping anything important here. If this wasn't enough explanation, then wait for the show to explain itself. Your not wrong to say the problematic aspects of slavery should be shown, but hold your horses. The show isn't over yet. The show has a whole 20+ more episodes to shed some light on slavery. I'll repeat this one more time: MC's relationship with his slave, from the moment he bought her, isn't a master-slave relationship. Shedding light on the problematic aspects of slavery is not their role in the story. It's clear you wouldn't want them to fill this role by the looks of it either. Plz wait for a real master-slave relationship to appear before jumping to conclusions. The time skip skips over Raphtalia growing up but also showing how she is now more capable of talking back to her master. It likely does this to skip over how the MC has been forcing her to do things she doesn’t want to do. And this is not a father-daughter relationship, this is a slavemaster-slave relationship. Whatever this show does to try to convince you is the former is a result of disgusting writing. I will keep watching to see if it is explained, but I have a feeling this show won’t address anything about slavery considering how much it has skipped the problematic aspects of this relationship to create some “cute” trope-y anime relationship between the two. He stopped using it after the dog scene. Raphtalia decided to fight for his sake and the children so they don't have to go through what she did. It was only a one week time skip anyways. The reality is Naofumi would never use it on Raphtalia for talking back. It had one purpose, to make her fight. He wants Raphtalia to be assertive, he wants her to be self-sufficient. He actually wants Raphtalia to tell him which aspects he needs to work on. He values her opinion. |
VKDOOM said: The time skip skips over Raphtalia growing up but also showing how she is now more capable of talking back to her master. It likely does this to skip over how the MC has been forcing her to do things she doesn’t want to do. And this is not a father-daughter relationship, this is a slavemaster-slave relationship. Whatever this show does to try to convince you is the former is a result of disgusting writing. I will keep watching to see if it is explained, but I have a feeling this show won’t address anything about slavery considering how much it has skipped the problematic aspects of this relationship to create some “cute” trope-y anime relationship between the two. You're going to need to prove the time skip was done for that specific purpose. Otherwise, it's nothing more than conjecture that serves to artificially boost your assertion. Heck, you contradicted yourself when you claimed that their relationship is not of the father-daughter type while mentioning Raphtalia assertiveness before that. In actual slave-master relationships, usually the master's input is absolute. It's the master's way or the highway, so to speak. I also notice that you have the propensity to just throw out buzzwords. The writing is problematic. The writing is irresponsible. This relationship is disgusting. You say these things, but you do very little to back your claims up. Your latest comment is a slight improvement over your previous ones, but it still suffers from the same fundamental problem: you make a claim without elaborating. |
| @VKDOOM Seems others have already corrected your misinterpretation, so I'll just summarize: MC does not "force her to do things she doesn’t want to do" from episode 2 onward. Sure, she didn't at first, but like most children being told to do things they don't want to do, the parent fails to explain why they must do it. After Raphtalia is made aware of the reason behind why she is being told to fight, episode 2 should make it clear she wishes to do it of her own volition from then on. MC even gave her an ultimatum, fight or he'll find someone else to do the job. She was free to decline if she so chose. He had cured her illness to some extent, so he probably would have released her and just bought someone else if it came down to it. There is nothing problematic with this writing. Raphtalia decided to fight for him on her own. Nothing is forced. MC isn't brainwashing her either if that's what you think. I'll give up on changing your opinion of what a slave-master relationship is since you believe anyone who's told to do something they don't want to do implies it's a slave-master relationship. This includes parents, guardians, teachers, trainers, officers, debt collectors, etc... Those are some unreasonable standards my friend. |
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
ttcchen said: But i don't like how they didn't mention Raphtalia's appearance grows with her level instead of her age, how her actual age is still 10 Is that why?? I had to go back and double check when he said it'd been a week since the last episode. This way of "aging" suddenly makes more sense. |
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hawk222 said: ttcchen said: But i don't like how they didn't mention Raphtalia's appearance grows with her level instead of her age, how her actual age is still 10 Is that why?? I had to go back and double check when he said it'd been a week since the last episode. This way of "aging" suddenly makes more sense. That's how it is. The next episode explains it. Though technically her appearance also changes with age. It's just that when they're younger they grow older as they level. They stop aging through leveling once they reach their physical peak. So early to mid 20's. |
| @malMaxi I question why anyone would think this series depicts slavery as "OK" before it even finishes airing. The series hasn't even given it's opinion on the matter yet. If your referring to no one calling out the fact that the MC has a slave, it just means he has hidden it well enough to not draw attention. Otherwise, it really is something the kingdom allows. If we were watching something historically accurate, we can't really criticize the creator(s) for depicting something that was common place. Documentaries that depict slavery aren't saying it was OK. They're just reenacting history as accurately as possible. Anime is no different besides the fact it's a work of fiction. If a fantasy world has slavery in it, who are we to say showing it implies it's OK. No one watching believes it's OK, and we all know the MC has been educated that it isn't as well. He doesn't take it lightly either, as he doesn't go around treating her like a slave, both in public and in private. I've said this to many already, but I'll say it again: watch the entire series before jumping to conclusions. If you still believe the series depicts slavery as OK, then your probably not paying attention to the main focus of the story. It's not that it's taking slavery lightly. It just hasn't focused on it the first 3 episodes. We have 20+ more to go. If they do avoid the subject to the very end, I'd rather go out on a limb and say it's a form of censorship. Both the LN and manga have dedicated chapters on the subject. The anime adaptation would have to cut those chapters out completely to get around the subject. The series isn't running away from the subject in the slightest. Just viewers jumping to conclusions. There's mystery surrounding both the kingdom and the world the heroes were summoned to. You can bet the other 3 heroes aren't even aware there's slaves in a fantasy world they believe to be a game. I don't even know many games that actually implement slavery myself besides Pokemon. You have to admit, it's ridiculous to say that the creator had slavery in mind when making the game. Shield Hero is no different. There's another purpose for implementing slavery in a fantasy world besides pairing the MC with Raphtalia. You wouldn't know that till you finished watching. For starters, it makes it painfully clear to the MC that the fantasy world he was summoned to isn't a game. |
ReloadJan 27, 2019 11:55 PM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
| How come the show depicts slavery as ok if the show itself portrays Noafumi in a bad light for buying a slave in the first place? The author is free to do whatever he wants with his story~ |
hystar said: I don't know, I just think that coming in waves with 1 month interval is just a dead plot. I'm also confused about the logistics of the wave... they showed what looks like thousands of bugs and whatnot descending from the sky, but then shield dude saves one town and it's over. Either the wave was much smaller than it looked, or else all the other heroes did most of the work. Which would confirm their suspicion that the shield hero is dead weight. |
hystar said: Also towards the end Raph reported to the shield hero: "i took care of the rest of the monsters in town"... so like a demi human fighting slimes can now stand alone without the shield hero against monsters, actual monsters that are part of the 'world ending wave', and it's the 2nd wave, the very same demi-human who was a useless sick kid less than a month ago. Can you see the potential in these demi-humans? And there are a lot of them compared to just 4 heroes. This disappointed me the most. I has looking forward to the two of them working together in creative ways to defeat enemies significantly more powerful than any they'd seen before... but instead the skeletons just stood around while the villagers waved pitchforks at them. Hell, if enslaving demi-humans is okay in this "matriarchy", then why not conscript massive slave armies to fend off the waves? Seems like the perfect solution given the morality of this society, or lack thereof. |
| These discussions forums are very funny This is not an exchange of opinions, it's just people wanting to convince the others that they are right. No one wants to be wrong and no one wants to actually learn what others think This is very funny |
| May our sweet and Merciful Madoka be with you |
AwesomeAlfie27 said: These discussions forums are very funny This is not an exchange of opinions, it's just people wanting to convince the others that they are right. No one wants to be wrong and no one wants to actually learn what others think This is very funny Welcome to the internet, you must be new here. Seriously though, do you really have an issue with people defending their ideas? Especially on topics they obviously feel strongly about? I've never seen a discussion forum where people don't bother to actually engage with each other. In fact I'd probably see that as more of a failure of a forum. |
hystar said: malMaxi said: You make it sound like "ending the world" does not consist of systematic elimination of all dwellings of sentient species. Attacking villages would be the primary goal of such incursions. The fight scenes were pretty good. Especially the way Naofumi and Raftalia were in sync were pretty awesome. I don't know, I just think that coming in waves with 1 month interval is just a dead plot. At the start they are talking like there's no time to level up for the shield hero, it made sense at first, but then after all the useless crap like the 'rape victim', the 3 heroes see him as a rapist, the whole world going against him, together with the fact that he can't attack/wield a sword, have to slowly teach/force a demi-human with disease and PTSD, and still managed the first wave with ease. It's actually a joke because he managed to save all(or most) of the villagers, even though the knights were fucking him over. As for a platoon helping them out, they are useless because in this world without heroes they could barely handle the easier 1st wave, and ep3 is 2nd wave, but apparently even those knights can handle it with ease... which makes no sense and kills any sort of urgency because the 'danger' doesn't exist. The fight scenes are terrible, he's picked up so many new skills and he's only used a few that's already shown beforehand during the wave, and it's the same thing - Raphtalia go kill something. I was expecting that he needs to combine 2 or 3 skills to make a new move, or have a new AoE move that binds/knocks/etc. Also if you watch the monsters' attacks, they are like retarded. If a few surprised villagers can defend themselves to an extend it just shows - once again - how useless these waves are and because of that it kills any sort of urgency. The fact that the village was destroyed because of the shitty knights instead of the monsters makes it even more of a joke. Sacrificing the village or a few lives will give the character/world more of an urgency, monsters being more deadly than 'we can't hit anything anyway' will create more of an urgency. So far it's like watching them fighting target dummies. I understand it's due to the low budget but man, I didn't expect they'd give zero efforts on a wave, after they completely butchered the 2 headed dog fight in the cave - the part where he got bit on the shoulder and all they show was his legs and cups of blood pouring down. |
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| @malMaxi Was hard to tell if you were a reader or not. Try not to criticize the adaptation based off the source material, even if everything turns out the same. To answer your question, yes. Slavery can be treated as nothing more than plot device in entertainment. It matters not whether slavery is a throwaway topic or not. Death is glossed over as is in much of entertainment already. Same can be said of many other immoral acts equivalent to murder. How I see it, the MC's relationship with his slave(s) isn't a depiction of slavery in the first place. If you wanted to see a story where it is depicted, go no further than documentaries. Fiction isn't the place we seek accuracy to begin with. It's usually a means of escapism; though, much of fiction gets its inspiration from RL. TateYusha isn't saying "slavery is OK if your master is alright." If I were to put it in my own words, it's saying "it's not slavery if the slaves are free to leave." The same can be said for other things like parenting. It's not parenting if the parent(s) abuse their child(ren). The only thing that makes the MC's relationship with his slave(s) "alright" is the fact that he will release if asked. The MC is by no means an accurate depiction of slavery. No one buys slaves because of trust issues. No one becomes a slave to become stronger. As you know, an accurate depiction of slavery will be revealed much later in the story. I'll say this again, it's not the MC's role in the series to depict slavery as acceptable. That's the kingdom's role for allowing it. If you've read, you should know why. |
ReloadJan 29, 2019 9:11 PM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
Maurice_5 said: Welcome to the internet, you must be new here. Seriously though, do you really have an issue with people defending their ideas? Especially on topics they obviously feel strongly about? I've never seen a discussion forum where people don't bother to actually engage with each other. In fact I'd probably see that as more of a failure of a forum. Thank you I Never said that, defending an idea is the beginning of an argument or debate I Never said that, but a debate shouldn't be about who's right or who's wrong, but about why Personally i don't care what you like, i care why you like it |
| May our sweet and Merciful Madoka be with you |
| I came in to this thread oblivious of all the flaws that it has, but even after realizing that it does have alot of flaws its still a very refreshing anime and for an isekai anime its pretty solid. Depending on how they go on with the story this will either be an amazing show to start off 2019 or a major let down... I hope its the first one. 8/10 |
malMaxi said: @Reload I agree with your interpretation that slavery is simply not the focus of the novels. I disagree that slavery is a topic that can be handled lightly or as a convenience, but that's a holywar topic that can be had forever without any real end in sight. My position is simple - have enough good works that treat slavery as something mundane and you'll have a world where slavery is mundane. However, i do realize that this is a slippery slope fallacy based on personal experience, so we can just leave it at that. I guess the thing we can agree on is that TateYusha is pretty good. Nobody cares about how crap works treat slavery :D Which is why I brought up the topic of death and murder in entertainment. Controversial subjects can be handled lightly or for convenience whether you like it or not. The horror genre speaks for itself. Glad you realize your argument is flawed. News reports enough atrocities to be mundane already, and the entertainment industry has far less pull on the world than the news. The only way we'd have multiple "works that treat slavery as something mundane" is if slavery was mundane in RL. Truth be told, it already is. We are perfectly fine with keeping pets because they're a less intelligent species. What makes it "alright" in our eyes is the fact we've domesticated them. The reason entertainment is able to handle slavery lightly or out of convenience at all is because it's the produced of creativity. TateYusha has a kingdom with prejudice against demi-humans. If not slavery, we'd see hunting, executing, sacrificing, and/or segregation. Ring any bells? Inspiration comes from RL. Everyone has standards, but we're better off not applying them to entertainment. It's pushing the envelope that makes stories like these unique. TateYusha is just one of them that had the guts to do it. Your right though. Only reason a series would get this much attention is if it's pretty good. Some viewers are just disappointed false accusations and slavery came with the package. |
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
Reload said: The only way we'd have multiple "works that treat slavery as something mundane" is if slavery was mundane in RL. Truth be told, it already is. We are perfectly fine with keeping pets because they're a less intelligent species. What makes it "alright" in our eyes is the fact we've domesticated them. Did... did you just compare slavery to keeping pets? Wow. Maybe take a couple of steps back and think about those implications for a while, huh? |
| @Maurice_5 I'm actually someone who doesn't believe in keeping pets. I'm not a dog or a cat person. The fact that there are dog and cat people already shows how much we've normalized it. I haven't looked into the history of pets, but I'm pretty sure humans didn't always have them. However, your right: we don't force pets to obey us; though, there are areas where we do. The main similarity is that they're considered legal property, same as slaves. The only differences being they aren't people and are kept for companionship or pleasure. After compare definitions, they both sound the same to me with the exception of the word "person." I bring it up because the MC of the series isn't forcing his slave(s) to obey him either. I'll counter my argument by stating that he doesn't keep said slave(s) for companionship or pleasure though. However, he does treat said slave(s) as person(s). Hence, "it's not slavery if the slave is treated as a person." It's not a question of whether slavery is alright or not based on how nice the master is. It's a matter of whether the master perceives their property as a person or not. The excuse slave owners had in the past for keeping them was that they didn't perceive their slaves as people. The MC of this series clearly sees his slave as a person, and decides to treat her as such. The point I make is perception is the biggest factor in all this. If we called pet owners, "slave owners" instead, would we still consider it acceptable? It's one of the reason it's ridiculous to say Pokemon depicts slavery even though masters are called "trainers." Pokemon are tamed creatures kept for companionship or pleasure in much the same way as pets. Anyhow, I see I've hit a landmine here. Not like I feel strongly enough about my opinion to outlaw pet ownership. You have to admit we've normalized pet ownership a great deal throughout history. I'm sure this has been done already in entertainment, but an alien with the appearance of a dog or cat with the same intelligence as a human would see our actions as slavery. What they don't know is that we go further by treating pets as our own family. Though the MC of Shield Hero is a slave owner, he does just as much the same thing in treating his slave(s) as his own child(ren). There'd obviously be less complaints if he had bough a monster instead of a demi-human. He probably would have if Raphtalia wasn't at death's door in need of saving. I'll say no more. My explanation should suffice on the matter. |
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
| Of course humans didn't always have pets, that was something that developed during human history. The earliest historically confirmed signs of domestication of wolves are from 40000 years ago at the maximum. How the wolf got domesticated, is not conclusively proven. One theory is, that wolves followed human hunters to feed on the food residue, that they would leave behind and over time a close(r) relationship/partnership would develop. The domestication of cats only began, when humans became sedentary, findings of human and cat remains at one place date back 9000 years. They were initially drawn to human settlements as waste exterminators. At least the domestication of the wolf was long before institutionalized slavery. Then there's the fact that cats were sacred in ancient Egypt and in other parts of the world they were treasured as pest control. In medieval Wales, the killing of a cat was punishable by law. The perpetrator had to give as much corn as was necessary to completely cover the dead cat as compensation to the owner. While it was always used as a justification for conquest and slavery to say "they are savages" or even worse "they are animals", comparisons between slavery and keeping domesticated animals are flimsy at best. Additionally, in Germany in the past, animals were sometimes tried and convicted the same as humans. If someone would commit sodomy, the animal would also be executed same as the human. In one documented case from the 1800s, a female donkey was only spared because the town's mayor and pastor had attested her an irreproachable moral conduct. In some cases, animals were even tried for murder. |
TheBigGuyJan 30, 2019 9:57 AM
| You're a louse, Roger Smith. - R. Dorothy Wayneright This is my fight! No Senpai, this is our fight! - Kojou Akatsuki & Yukina Himeragi  |
| Naofumi and Raphtalia's bonds are growing stronger as the time of their party's existence passes. It's nice to see how they trust each other and rely on themselves. Battle with the Wave and Naofumi's defense of the village (aided by sword-wielding Raphtalia) was simply epic. |
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