Shocku_ said: CAN WE PLEASE STOP?! the thought of an upcoming controversy that might happen didnt even cross my mind until - OF COURSE - someone had to bring it up.... DONT LIKE IT DONT WATCH IT! it is really that easy... could we as a species pls focus on real problems? This is the best post that I’ve seen in a long time. |
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Reload said: If forums like this didn't exist, no one would even see this as controversial. I've watched several anime without exchanging opinions with others, and I'm better off for it. I don't watch anime to judge it or put a label on it. Same goes for movies, TV shows, and video games. It's always been a means of killing time, regardless of what the stories depict. Why choose watching with a "critical eye" over just being entertained? Watch the news or read a history book if you want to see real depictions of wrongdoing. Oh, wait. It's actually raising awareness. Artists get their inspiration from real life events. Artist don't pursue careers in the entertainment industry just to depict outdated ideologies. They're making their setting as realistic as possible; and of course, making an honest living out of story telling. None of that speaks "controversy" to me. As for how I'd describe slavery in the series, it's a system the MC was able to take advantage of due to the game mechanics he has. The mechanics are limited to the heroes alone. The kingdom offering party members was an alternative to these mechanics. Sadly, our MC lost his right to have party members; not that he had any to begin with. So, he had to resort to using a slave to gain EXP. Taking away freedom isn't being promoted in any way. How Not to Summon a Demon Lord did the same. The slaves are always treated humanely, as most MCs come from modern day society. Would've been worse if one of the heroes saw it as acceptable. The MC doesn't see it as acceptable himself. It's a means of avoiding betrayal. Calling this arbitrary on the author's part is presumptuous. It moves the story forward, given the MC's predicament. Concerning misogyny, it's not limited to females for the MC. You mustn't forget his prejudice developed from a trauma caused by betrayal. Technically, the whole kingdom betrayed the MC; including the other heroes. Relevant females in this series are all given "agency", as NthDegree put it. If you've forgotten, every able character is working towards the same goal. They must all defend their home against the waves. Gender and agency plays no role here. The status quo changes with every new character introduced with fighting capability. How their introduce hardly matters. No one falls into this misogynistic ideology critics are propagating except the villain of the story. The slaves under the MC aren't all female. Females having more pull than males isn't enough reason for the MC to hate females either. All the edginess depicted in the series comes from one thing: "one man against the world." Goblin Slayer was similar: "one man against goblin hordes." Both eventually accepted help, regardless of gender. Both are also stories of revenge. Not everyone is a fan of revenge stories since fantasies are usually about adventure... Oh, seems I have nothing else to complain about. I'll just answer the questions presented by @NthDegree: 1. "Do you agree that the MC benefits from slavery in the story?" YES and NO. "YES" because MC has a viable means of gaining EXP. The "NO" response is spoiler. What it boils down to is responsibility. Every ideology has pros and cons. Even slavery. Free food at the price of labor is the same as labor paying for said food. 2. "Do you agree that it was the author that set the story up, so that it was in the MC's best interest to participate in slavery?" YES. Take out slavery and what do you have: A lone hero without a means of effectively leveling up. Guess what's included in this story setup: THE SHIELD. If your going to question the setup of slavery, you may as well question the setup of a defensive weapon being useful. Guess I should ask the questions now: (two can play at this game) 1. Do you agree the MC wouldn't have participate in slavery if he had a viable means of gaining EXP? 2. Do you agree that it was the author that set the story up, so that the MC would only accomplish great feats when he relied on others? 1. the MC will eventually enslave shitton of wahmen , just wait xD 2. via enslaving shitton of wahmen in the process . well.. fair enough but , I think you (the author) should see a doctor . you have hella serious issues there , sir . The MC is so frkn Salty due to this false rape accusation mumbo jumbo to the point he chooses to blame all wahmen in the world by enslaving every last one of em on sight lol |
Lab_Rat_0978Jan 14, 2019 12:29 AM
Ysad_Ziwezhan said: Reload said: 1. "Do you agree that the MC benefits from slavery in the story?" YES and NO. "YES" because MC has a viable means of gaining EXP. The "NO" response is spoiler. What it boils down to is responsibility. Every ideology has pros and cons. Even slavery. Free food at the price of labor is the same as labor paying for said food. Woaaaaah ! That's so great to read something stupid like that. The amazing thing in this thread on a psychological level is one can notice that many people aren't concerned by slavery. Lucky us. That's why they/we don't bother. So few here ever thought about ... being the slave (even less one being sexually abused or tortured). They can't relate, it's way beyond their empathy level. So great ! Lucky us, we will never experience being a slave, so ... a hero (yeah, the guy we are supposed to relate to) being a beneficiary of slavery is no big deal, of course. 2. "Do you agree that it was the author that set the story up, so that it was in the MC's best interest to participate in slavery?" YES. Take out slavery and what do you have: A lone hero without a means of effectively leveling up. Guess what's included in this story setup: THE SHIELD. If your going to question the setup of slavery, you may as well question the setup of a defensive weapon being useful. The thing is, at one point, the slave could become just a party member, no problem, except the author doesn't want it and again he does make it "obligatory" to keep the slave status for the female. Again, I think it has more to do with the fetish of the devoted female than the author being pro-slavery, but it is nonetheless a lame plot-device. Sorry if this show is too much for your delicate snowflake brain to handle. This is a medieval society, you idiot, do you thing slavery only happened on white cultures and during the colonization of the americas period? Slavery still happens to this day, if you are soo disgusted by the idea of slavery, what are you doing to stop ACTUAL slavery? nothing, soo take your pathetic oppinion and go watch your yaoi or warever a freak like you watches. |
| Would people please stop moving the goalposts all the time? I have seen quite a few discussions about the slavery aspect that turned out like this: Person A: "The author promotes slavery! The fact that the protagonist is willingly making use of slavery is proof!" Person B: "No, the author doesn't and no, that's not proof." Person A: "How is not? He literally buys a slave!" Person B: "Yes, but it's shown as a neccessary evil. On top of being a somewhat mentally unstable person with trust issues at that moment (i.e. not considered a moral compass in the first place), Naofumi was also forced into a situation where he could only choose between buying a slave or dying after being summoned to the wave at a low level with no way to attack, i.e. a dilemma. Nowhere is slavery presented as an inherently 'good' thing." Person A: "Bu--- But that's only because the author wrote it that way! The author could have written the same thing but with different circumstances than slavery![...]" What Person A does here is moving the goalposts. It used to be about "promoting slavery" and was being argued based on the actual content of the series. But now that Person A got backed into a corner (metaphorically speaking, of course), Person A decided to move the goalposts from "promoting slavery" to something like "using slavery in a fictional work is untasteful!" by using meta arguments that involve baseless assumptions about the author's intentions and personal beliefs. At that point it's already safe to say that it was over and that Person B should not waste any further time arguing about the mental gymnastics that Person A is coming up with from that point forward. In short: If you want to critisize the moral aspects of a fictional work, then you must first accept the entire premise as is. The moment you consider cherry picking what parts of the premise "count" and which do not, you are essentially arguing about fanfiction rather than the actual work. And if you need to resort to meta-arguments, then you have likely already lost, because at that point you have already given up on proving your initial claim through in-universe proof. |
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Tougen said: Ysad_Ziwezhan said: Woaaaaah ! That's so great to read something stupid like that. The amazing thing in this thread on a psychological level is one can notice that many people aren't concerned by slavery. Lucky us. That's why they/we don't bother. So few here ever thought about ... being the slave (even less one being sexually abused or tortured). They can't relate, it's way beyond their empathy level. So great ! Lucky us, we will never experience being a slave, so ... a hero (yeah, the guy we are supposed to relate to) being a beneficiary of slavery is no big deal, of course. The thing is, at one point, the slave could become just a party member, no problem, except the author doesn't want it and again he does make it "obligatory" to keep the slave status for the female. Again, I think it has more to do with the fetish of the devoted female than the author being pro-slavery, but it is nonetheless a lame plot-device. Sorry if this show is too much for your delicate snowflake brain to handle. This is a medieval society, you idiot, do you thing slavery only happened on white cultures and during the colonization of the americas period? Slavery still happens to this day, if you are soo disgusted by the idea of slavery, what are you doing to stop ACTUAL slavery? nothing, soo take your pathetic oppinion and go watch your yaoi or warever a freak like you watches. I will quote myself :) Woaaaaah ! That's so great to read something stupid like that. I think your answer is not on point with what I wrote but it's ok. I understand that it was probably already "too much (text) to handle" ;) Don't give up though! |
Grey-Zone said: In short: If you want to critisize the moral aspects of a fictional work, then you must first accept the entire premise as is. The moment you consider cherry picking what parts of the premise "count" and which do not, you are essentially arguing about fanfiction rather than the actual work. And if you need to resort to meta-arguments, then you have likely already lost, because at that point you have already given up on proving your initial claim through in-universe proof. Is the presentation of slavery as a "necessary evil" for the hero (like back then in some parts of the real world) a good thing as premise for the " moral aspects of a fictional work" ? like : "Yes slavery is shit but ... but but but ... and if if if ... then it's still doable" kind of logic. and with the "do or die" simplistic logic you can go very very far indeed. |
Grey-Zone said: Would people please stop moving the goalposts all the time? I have seen quite a few discussions about the slavery aspect that turned out like this: Person A: "The author promotes slavery! The fact that the protagonist is willingly making use of slavery is proof!" Person B: "No, the author doesn't and no, that's not proof." Person A: "How is not? He literally buys a slave!" Person B: "Yes, but it's shown as a neccessary evil. On top of being a somewhat mentally unstable person with trust issues at that moment (i.e. not considered a moral compass in the first place), Naofumi was also forced into a situation where he could only choose between buying a slave or dying after being summoned to the wave at a low level with no way to attack, i.e. a dilemma. Nowhere is slavery presented as an inherently 'good' thing." Person A: "Bu--- But that's only because the author wrote it that way! The author could have written the same thing but with different circumstances than slavery![...]" What Person A does here is moving the goalposts. It used to be about "promoting slavery" and was being argued based on the actual content of the series. But now that Person A got backed into a corner (metaphorically speaking, of course), Person A decided to move the goalposts from "promoting slavery" to something like "using slavery in a fictional work is untasteful!" by using meta arguments that involve baseless assumptions about the author's intentions and personal beliefs. At that point it's already safe to say that it was over and that Person B should not waste any further time arguing about the mental gymnastics that Person A is coming up with from that point forward. In short: If you want to critisize the moral aspects of a fictional work, then you must first accept the entire premise as is. The moment you consider cherry picking what parts of the premise "count" and which do not, you are essentially arguing about fanfiction rather than the actual work. And if you need to resort to meta-arguments, then you have likely already lost, because at that point you have already given up on proving your initial claim through in-universe proof. This is demonstrably false. You absolutely consider the writing process when evaluating a writer's mindset or intentions. The counter-argument I see is: "The selection of slavery and false rape allegations in this story is arbitrary." To which I reply: "If it was arbitrary, then why did these particular ideas pop into your mind first when writing a story? Why didn't they get nixxed at the storyboarding phase?" -----The answer is because the author doesn't see these portrayals as a problem. Ergo, they are misogynistic and/or slavery apologists. Or, because they are stupid. Or, because they KNOW these are problematic topics and chose to include them anyway, which makes the author morally bankrupt in pursuit of controversy. Besides, you're straw-manning ---- there's a difference between "slavery promotion" (which this is not) and "slavery apologism" (which this is... in that it essentially describes slavery as a necessary evil in the context of this world). Which is just a what-the-fuck thing to argue if you a.) had self-awareness about what you're writing, and b.) didn't actually mean anything sinister by it. The universe of the show is that this is OK. It thus promotes a world-view that, under some circumstances, slavery is OK. This is a textbook form of apologism. |
tery999 said: So after reading the last page here: There is slavery in the anime, therefor it promotes it. Just like Naruto promotes people becoming ninjas. Action animes promote people beating each other up. Sekai animes promote people going into virtual worlds. Soccer animes promote people becoming David Beckam. Horror animes promote people killing each others. Mob Psycho promotes people pursuing their psychic powers. SJWs really are something. Such interesting creatures... Slavery is shown as "morally justifiable" in this world without any critical thought which is not just fucking stupid but actively harmful. "Horror animes promote people killing each others." ...No, murderers are usually the bad guys. I wonder why? There are shows where murderers are good guys, but -usually- the intent is to make you feel ambivalent about the nature of absolute morality. You know, a nuanced view. Such a thing is not even considered in this show and is just taken as a matter of fact which makes it harmful. And, again, "slavery" is such a weird thing to say that "it's okay sometimes!" that I have to wonder about your brain if you intend to argue this as an author of a work of fiction. |
DaBackpackJan 14, 2019 5:00 AM
Ysad_Ziwezhan said: Grey-Zone said: In short: If you want to critisize the moral aspects of a fictional work, then you must first accept the entire premise as is. The moment you consider cherry picking what parts of the premise "count" and which do not, you are essentially arguing about fanfiction rather than the actual work. And if you need to resort to meta-arguments, then you have likely already lost, because at that point you have already given up on proving your initial claim through in-universe proof. Is the presentation of slavery as a "necessary evil" for the hero (like back then in some parts of the real world) a good thing as premise for the " moral aspects of a fictional work" ? like : "Yes slavery is shit but ... but but but ... and if if if ... then it's still doable" kind of logic. and with the "do or die" simplistic logic you can go very very far indeed. You are operating under the wrong premise. It's not me who has to "defend the use of slavery" here. It's you who has to prove that the show is presenting slavery as a universally morally good thing. Many historians agree that slavery was "useful" in ancient times. Many of them probably even agree that without slavery the ancient great civilisations could not have been maintained. That in itself is not equal to a moral endorsement for slavery by these historians though, unless you can prove otherwise. DaBackpack said: "If it was arbitrary, then why did these particular ideas pop into your mind first when writing a story? Why didn't they get nixxed at the storyboarding phase?" This is exactly why I say this line of thought is invalid. You are "filling the blanks" of what we don't know about either the writing process or the author's mindset. You are replacing the unknowns with your personal imagination. Do I really need to explain the flaws of such reasoning? Let's just say that someone else could fill the missing parts with different imagination compared to you. For example that the slavery is used as a demonstration that the new world is an absolutely detestable world. What now? Will we pointlessly argue back and forth about our respective "arm-chair psycho-analysis" of the author's motives for including slavery in this story? Will we argue about whose magical mind reading ability is superior? No, because it's incredibly stupid to even entertain such a ridiculous line of reasoning. Rather than speculating about meta-things, when we don't even know the sex/gender of the author, how about actually relying on the work as presented? Of course, if you have any "word of god", i.e. interviews with the author to refer to, then that would change things, but until then keep focusing on the work itself instead of your imagination of the things surrounding it. DaBackpack said: Slavery is shown as "morally justifiable" in this world without any critical thought which is not just fucking stupid but actively harmful. You forgot about the part where you have to prove that anything in this "new world" is actually presented as any sort of valid moral compass for the audience, to make this line of reasoning work. I am pretty sure you didn't do that in any of your previous posts yet. Who in their right mind watches this show and thinks: "Oh look! This shitty country that just exposed why it can be considered absolutely detestable uses slavery! The protagonist who has been shown to be close to insanity in his current state also has been coaxed into making use of slavery out of desperation! Wow, what great role models! I will now consider slavery a good thing and practise it in real life!"? Sounds foolish? Because it is. But you are arguing in favor of just that kind of foolish reasoing. |
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DaBackpack said: tery999 said: So after reading the last page here: There is slavery in the anime, therefor it promotes it. Just like Naruto promotes people becoming ninjas. Action animes promote people beating each other up. Sekai animes promote people going into virtual worlds. Soccer animes promote people becoming David Beckam. Horror animes promote people killing each others. Mob Psycho promotes people pursuing their psychic powers. SJWs really are something. Such interesting creatures... Slavery is shown as "morally justifiable" in this world without any critical thought which is not just fucking stupid but actively harmful. "Horror animes promote people killing each others." ...No, murderers are usually the bad guys. I wonder why? There are shows where murderers are good guys, but -usually- the intent is to make you feel ambivalent about the nature of absolute morality. You know, a nuanced view. Such a thing is not even considered in this show and is just taken as a matter of fact which makes it harmful. And, again, "slavery" is such a weird thing to say that "it's okay sometimes!" that I have to wonder about your brain if you intend to argue this as an author of a work of fiction. Look at this clown LOL. You seem to like the Fate series, its a show about summoning people to fight each other to the death, yes, to the death. You also seem to enjoy GTO, a story about a teacher that beats his students up and promotes relations between male teachers and underaged school girls. Dont get me wrong, both of these shows are pretty good and i dont think the authors of these shows actualy promote such those things, after all, its just a work of fiction, but if this one promotes slavery to you, then those other two NEED to also promote murder, beating underaged kids and pedophilia. |
| Funny how the discussion begins with snowflakes being trigger'd by false rape accusations to snowflakes being trigger'd by the author promoting slavery. Seriously, these snowflakes blown the context way out of proportion and missed the point because thinking outside the box seems too hard for some reason. The long version tl:dr version |
| I really don't care if it does, it may even add to its popularity and it's always funny to laugh at oversensitive virtue signalling hypocrites. |
elphaba16 said: Not disagreeing but did you have to make an alt account to post this?Their argument is pretty much "violent games make people violent". And don't reply to Bernrika. They're your typical room temperature IQ SJW. - Who's the REAL snowflakes??? - LE CONSPIRACY - *Reports everyone who disagrees with me* - Everyone I don't like is an incel If you aren't one then apologies. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
Ysad_Ziwezhan said: The thing is ... the slave [eventually becomes more than just a] party member, no problem, except the author ... [makes] it "obligatory" to keep the slave status for the female [throughout the majority of the story]. Again, I think it has more to do with the fetish of the devoted female than the author being pro-slavery, but it is nonetheless a lame plot-device. Sorry to have to correct you. Firstly, do you still believe the author is male? (not that it matters, just avoid using he or she if you don't know) Only a few critics here believe the author is being pro-slavery. I'm only entertaining the argument. I can care less how well a plot-device is used. I also see it as more than just a "fetish of the devote female." If the MC wasn't so traumatized, he probably would have removed the slave seal without a second thought. It's use here progresses the story more than anything. The MC's reaction to having the seal removed without his consent is proof enough. He really believes anyone who's not forced to stay by his side will betray him. This "lame plot-device" is used by the MC to overcome his trauma and EXP predicament. I'd rather not have to explain how there's nothing lame about it, unless you believe the MC's actions where inexcusable. However, it really would be lame if its only purpose was to fulfill a fetish. nina444 said: 1. the MC will eventually enslave shitton of wahmen , just wait xD 2. via enslaving shitton of wahmen in the process . well.. fair enough but , I think you (the author) should see a doctor . you have hella serious issues there... The MC is so frkn Salty due to this false rape accusation mumbo jumbo to the point he chooses to blame all wahmen in the world by enslaving every last one of em on sight lol In response to your answers, I'm fully aware. Does no one acknowledge they aren't all female. The reason behind most of them being female in the first place is a result of what the slave seller has in stock. It's likely males are sold off quicker than females for manual labor. I believe the series explains this so I won't even bother. The author is completely sane for having the MC buy all the leftovers, unless you think the only use for slaves is pleasure and there should've been far more males in stock than females. I'd also argue that males are priced higher than the females if it's judged by physical ability alone. MC probably wants what's cheap since he can get more value out of it due to his hero skills. Now see here, word choice. Instead of specifying the exact cause of the MC's trauma, it should be generalized. He was betrayed. Not just by a woman, but the whole kingdom who revered him as a hero; including the other heroes themselves. On the contrary, the fact that most of the slaves under him are female shows he hates males more than females. The MC initially believed it was the Spear Hero's plot to have one of his party members betray him to steal his belongings. "Enslave", word choice again. The MC doesn't make slaves; he buys them. Your exaggeration was likely intentional, so I won't take it too seriously. All will be cleared up as the adaptation progresses. |
ReloadJan 14, 2019 11:57 AM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
Elviri said: Lloyd_ said: Does that mean Feminists is gonna jump on this anime then? If so, 2019 is gonna be a fun year for a lot of people. I really don't think feminists will make a problem of this? It's just a mean individual who makes false accusations, the story doesn't say that all women are like this or something. I mean, I call myself a feminist. I've also had my own 'me-too' moments. (For instance, when I was 12 (!) a bunch of guys came up to me and told me they wanted to r*pe me. I ran away, so nothing happened though. And when I was 14 a random guy in a swimming pool tore away my bikini top to touch my breasts. That might sound not that bad, but I'm a really shy person and have been afraid of swimming pools since then. I'm 21 now.) Despite all that, do I deny that false accusations exist? No. Of course not. Do I think all men are bad? Of course not, some of my best friends are guys. Do I hate this manga? No, it's always been one of my favourites. The only way this could cause a controversy is, if people take this particular example and go like 'See? All women are liars, their accusations are not even real'. I really think you people in this thread are making too big of a deal out of this particular aspect of the story. The viewers are just supposed to go like 'damn that woman is awful'. Nothing more than that. THANK YOU! That's what I also take from it. I don't see how that can be controversial or even made a big deal by feminists. |
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VeryLTTP said: Do I need to link more stuff? I ask because you know, right wings get triggered by "Happy Holidays", so It could be quite long... Yeah, link articles instead of generic memes. You're merely showing examples equivalent to the "outrage" against Doom's "mortally challenged" joke. There were definitely people who got triggered by the game's joke, but it was just a bunch of randos on Twitter. However, if there are journalists going out of their way to bash a piece of media on false pretenses, e.g. "Tate no Yuusha is a bad show because it and the author are misogynist", that's a whole another story. That's because articles have far more outreach than some thread in a forum or subReddit. The original argument was about right wing snowflakes, genius. I literally posted you examples (Like SSY episode 8 reactions WHICH YOU CAN FIND ON THIS VERY SITE) but you ignored them (Like the incels on /a/ raging at an anime aimed at FeMAles) and now you are moving the goalpost from how much snowflakes you right wings are to how people write articles that damage the anime identity. You literally moved the goalpost: I don't see the anti-SJW crowd getting so easily offended as they are not the ones who conflated fiction with reality. The SJW crowd did. That is why we see some very ridiculous accusations such as the author is misogynist or because the MC judged one woman as a thot, he must be sexist towards all women. The SJW's were the ones that made the series unnecessarily political. You original claim was 1) anti-SJW crown doesn't get offended. 2) They don't conflated fiction with reality. Which are both wrong since they are perpetual offended by anything progressive or anything that violates their beliefs: http://mantearsflowingfree.tumblr.com/ OMG! An anime aimed at women! You want to talk about articles? There are like a bazillion of right wing siteS arguing that marvel comics are encouraging WhiTE gENoCiDE or Videogame will cause the fall of society through CulRURal MArxiSM . I'm sure you know them since you are a reactionary. Sankaku complex, OAG, to name a few. Oh by the way, hiding behind " shoehorn or force identity politics" doesn't work, we can tell you are offended. elphaba16 said: Their argument is pretty much "violent games make people violent". And don't reply to Bernrika. They're your typical room temperature IQ SJW. - Who's the REAL snowflakes??? - LE CONSPIRACY - *Reports everyone who disagrees with me* - Everyone I don't like is an incel Also making an alt? Pathetic. And with a lack of self-awareness. >Everyone who disagrees with me is a SJW! >But I'm not an incel!!! Stop being wrong and start to grow. Maybe then you'll stop reading shit-tier isekai with edgy protagonists. |
BernrikaJan 14, 2019 3:20 PM
Bernrika said: The original argument was about right wing snowflakes, genius. I literally posted you examples (Like SSY episode 8 reactions WHICH YOU CAN FIND ON THIS VERY SITE) but you ignored them (Like the incels on /a/ raging at an anime aimed at FeMAles) and now you are moving the goalpost from how much snowflakes you right wings are to how people write articles that damage the anime identity. You literally moved the goalpost: I don't see the anti-SJW crowd getting so easily offended as they are not the ones who conflated fiction with reality. The SJW crowd did. That is why we see some very ridiculous accusations such as the author is misogynist or because the MC judged one woman as a thot, he must be sexist towards all women. The SJW's were the ones that made the series unnecessarily political. You failed to see the part where I was making a comparison between the anti-SJWs and SJWs. The SJWs are more easily offended than anti-SJWs because the claims I see from the SJW crowd are rather ridiculous and have the tendency to conflate fiction with reality. You original claim was 1) anti-SJW crown doesn't get offended. 2) They don't conflated fiction with reality. Which are both wrong since they are perpetual offended by anything progressive or anything that violates their beliefs: And you should've paid attention to the part where I said that in context of the SJW outrage over Shield Hero. I provided examples of outlandish claims about the adaptation and series. There are definitely some anti-SJWs that claim a certain piece of media is inciting discrimination against white people or what not, but again, I'm not seeing articles written with those claims. A bunch of random people on an isolated forum does not establish a set pattern... Really? Just one post from one random user from a forum? That's the best you can do? You, sir, really need to look up why a large sample size is important in statistics... What I proved with my citation is that there is a institutionally-led outrage against Shield Hero. ANN and Anime Feminist are such institutions pushing that outrage as they used their platforms to push false pretenses rather than reviewing a show apolitically. You want to talk about articles? There are like a bazillion of right wing siteS arguing that marvel comics are encouraging WhiTE gENoCiDE or Videogame will cause the fall of society through CulRURal MArxiSM . I'm sure you know them since you are a reactionary. Sankaku complex, OAG, to name a few. Oh great, even more assertions without providing evidence. It's like you don't even know how to back up a claim. "These things exist! Just trust me! Just don't question the part where I don't provide any evidence or provide extremely bad pieces of evidence!" The burden of proof falls on the person making the positive claim. You have not fulfilled your burden of proof. Why should I believe you, especially when you have continually resorted to underhanded, dishonest tactics? Oh by the way, hiding behind " shoehorn or force identity politics" doesn't work, we can tell you are offended. Who's "we"? ANTIFA? As far I as I know, only you speak for yourself. Oh and what you just did is what we call an ad infinitum fallacy. It's always the same tactics whether it's you or NthDegree. Repeat, repeat, repeat the same talking points as if it makes them any more reasonable. Shouting "Right wing! Right wing!" like a deranged lunatic also doesn't help your case. This is what we call an ad infinitum ad hominem. Let's face it. You can't argue your case and thus, you resorted to making repeated personal attacks to get me to lose my cool. I apologize that I'm not falling into your trap :( On the bright side, you're Streisand Effect-ing this adaptation rather well :) |
VeryLTTPJan 14, 2019 3:54 PM
That's not a post. It's a blog that collected a bunch of outrages from people who couldn't stand an anime aimed at women. It goes on for at least 10 pages. Only answer to me again when you learn to read. |
Bernrika said: That's not a post. It's a blog that collected a bunch of outrages from people who couldn't stand an anime aimed at women. It goes on for at least 10 pages. Only answer to me again when you learn to read. I just see a random blogger cherrypicking random posts. Oh, and it's not an institution such as Anime Feminist or ANN either. Therefore, your example is nowhere equivalent to those I provided. Only answer when you actually find something of equivalent outreach and power. |
| The difference between SJWs and anti-SJWs is that SJWs actually cause stuff to be censored, while anti-SJWs don't - and it doesn't matter whether it's because anti-SJWs themselves don't want to censor anything or if they do want to censor stuff from the opposite side, but lack the reach and influence to cause companies to give in to them, no matter the medium. For example: When was the last time you heard about fundamental Christians being the cause of any sort of censorship? And how often are they the cause in comparison with the amount of SJW-caused censorship? |
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Grey-Zone said: The difference between SJWs and anti-SJWs is that SJWs actually cause stuff to be censored, while anti-SJWs don't - and it doesn't matter whether it's because anti-SJWs themselves don't want to censor anything or if they do want to censor stuff from the opposite site, but lack the reach and influence to cause companies to give in to them, no matter the medium. To give an example: When was the last time you heard about fundamental Christians being the cause of any sort of censorship? And how much is that in comparison with the amount of SJW-caused censorship? And to add on top of that, when was the last time where a localization team went out of their way to write in an unprovoked shot at anti-GamerGate in an English dub? Or when did an anti-SJW went out of his way to threaten a publishing company to not publish a popular crowd-funded comic series? (Reference to Mark Waid, Antarctic Press, and Jawbreakers). |
VeryLTTPJan 14, 2019 4:07 PM
I see you keep moving the goal post. Look at all those offended manbabies! Also bzzzz, wrong answer again! If you look well enough there at least a couple of blog posts. Oh, and it's not an institution such as Anime Feminist or ANN either. Therefore, your example is nowhere equivalent to those I provided. Speaking of Streisand Effect, isn't AF just a random blog/site? I'm checking their twitter now and they have like 4k followers, imagine thinking they are some kind of institution.  |
Bernrika said: Also bzzzz, wrong answer again! If you look well enough there at least a couple of blog posts. Ah, I see that you can't back up your claims. According to Hitchen's Razor, I can consider your claim unfounded since you have failed to provide substantial supporting evidence. Speaking of Streisand Effect, isn't AF just a random blog/site? I'm checking their twitter now and they have like 4k followers, imagine thinking they are some kind of institution. They have a platform and they're using that platform to push false pretenses. Also, nice try at attempting to sweep ANN under the rug. You forgot to acknowledge that ANN has quite some reach. A lot of YouTubers picked up on this "controversy" and called out on the people claiming that Shield Hero is "pro-slavery" or "misogynistic". Chibi Reviews' video, for instance, hit 145K views which is substantially higher than the average view per video he usually gets. Foxen Anime's video about Shield Hero hit 37K views which is higher than most of his videos not about AOT. Or look at a smaller channel, Just Nerds. His video hit 46K views while most of his other videos' view counts are way below that (with few exceptions). How about appabend? His video hit 149K views and that is his only video that exceeded 100K views within the last 4 or so months. YellowFlash 2? His video reached 97K views. None of his other videos come close. ^^ See what I did there? I showed evidence to back up my claim that there is a Streisand Effect. You, on the other hand, haven't provided any counter-evidence. Even after being asked so many times, your claim looks less and less valid. *Translation: "I can't make a refutation, so I'll just post a random image because that's the best my mind can function" Not at all surprised that you can only resort to provocation tactics. But hey, keep contributing to the outcome that you don't like because you lack that much awareness... |
VeryLTTPJan 14, 2019 4:28 PM
VeryLTTP said: Bernrika said: Also bzzzz, wrong answer again! If you look well enough there at least a couple of blog posts. Ah, I see that you can't back up your claims. According to Hitchen's Razor, I can consider your claim unfounded since you have failed to provide substantial supporting evidence. First, I link you a blog, and you think it's a post. Then, I correct you, and point out it's not a post, but a collections of outrages from anti-SJW (Which was the original argument). Then, you comments that there are no blog posts. Then, I point out that there are at least a couple of random bloggers.(I think Sankakucomplex is still mad about it to this day by the way. The comments definitely are lol) Actually, even before that, I posted you a pic of plenty of people outraging at a the idea of an anime pandering at women, but you also ignored it.  Also, nice try at attempting to sweep ANN under the rug. It's a written post, iamverysmart, you can't "sweep" anything under the rug. I was laughing at your idea that that a random blogger with 4k followers is some kind of INSTITUTION, because let's be honest.  Does it make you mad you can't control what they say by the way? You know, freedom of speech and all. I know you champion it but I also know people like you have massive control issues. Why are they writing something I don't agree with reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
BernrikaJan 14, 2019 4:37 PM
Huex3 said: @Grey-Zone @DaBackpack Answer 3: I was most inspired by online games, specifically by a defense-specialized crusader character in "Ragnarok Online." It is a very powerful and dependable class, but it's virtually impossible to level one up without a party. I knew it. The author was inspired by Ragnarok Online. The moment I read the extra story in the manga I've noticed that. |
Reload said: Ysad_Ziwezhan said: The thing is ... the slave [eventually becomes more than just a] party member, no problem, except the author ... [makes] it "obligatory" to keep the slave status for the female [throughout the majority of the story]. Again, I think it has more to do with the fetish of the devoted female than the author being pro-slavery, but it is nonetheless a lame plot-device. Sorry to have to correct you. Firstly, do you still believe the author is male? (not that it matters, just avoid using he or she if you don't know) Only a few critics here believe the author is being pro-slavery. I'm only entertaining the argument. I can care less how well a plot-device is used. I also see it as more than just a "fetish of the devote female." If the MC wasn't so traumatized, he probably would have removed the slave seal without a second thought. It's use here progresses the story more than anything. The MC's reaction to having the seal removed without his consent is proof enough. He really believes anyone who's not forced to stay by his side will betray him. This "lame plot-device" is used by the MC to overcome his trauma and EXP predicament. I'd rather not have to explain how there's nothing lame about it, unless you believe the MC's actions where inexcusable. However, it really would be lame if its only purpose was to fulfill a fetish. nina444 said: 1. the MC will eventually enslave shitton of wahmen , just wait xD 2. via enslaving shitton of wahmen in the process . well.. fair enough but , I think you (the author) should see a doctor . you have hella serious issues there... The MC is so frkn Salty due to this false rape accusation mumbo jumbo to the point he chooses to blame all wahmen in the world by enslaving every last one of em on sight lol In response to your answers, I'm fully aware. Does no one acknowledge they aren't all female. The reason behind most of them being female in the first place is a result of what the slave seller has in stock. It's likely males are sold off quicker than females for manual labor. I believe the series explains this so I won't even bother. The author is completely sane for having the MC buy all the leftovers, unless you think the only use for slaves is pleasure and there should've been far more males in stock than females. I'd also argue that males are priced higher than the females if it's judged by physical ability alone. MC probably wants what's cheap since he can get more value out of it due to his hero skills. Now see here, word choice. Instead of specifying the exact cause of the MC's trauma, it should be generalized. He was betrayed. Not just by a woman, but the whole kingdom who revered him as a hero; including the other heroes themselves. On the contrary, the fact that most of the slaves under him are female shows he hates males more than females. The MC initially believed it was the Spear Hero's plot to have one of his party members betray him to steal his belongings. "Enslave", word choice again. The MC doesn't make slaves; he buys them. Your exaggeration was likely intentional, so I won't take it too seriously. All will be cleared up as the adaptation progresses. I'd argue , the real reason behind , "most of them being female in the first place is........... a result of the rising of the salty hero's author... allows it to happen . we gotta to remember , the whole story/world is FICTION , that's the keyword here . it means, every author can literally do whatever he/she wants in fiction . aand the author of the rising of the salty hero most likely has a thing for enslaving wahmen because how he depicted slavery in HiS story , he even went out of his way to justify his actions by bestowing a lot of consent wahmen slaves upon his salty mc . I don't really care about the author reasonings , he can deny as he likes but the fact still stands , the rising of the salty hero is a story about a salty dude (because of wahmen) doing his slavery thing . |
Lab_Rat_0978Jan 14, 2019 4:45 PM
Bernrika said: First, I link you a blog, and you think it's a post. Then, I correct you, and point out it's not a post, but a collection of outrages from anti-SJW (Which was the original argument). Then, you comments that there are no blog posts. Then, I point out that there are at least a couple of random bloggers. Aaaand great job at not directly addressing my refutation. Just so you know, blogs =/= articles from established sites. Actually, even before that, I posted you a pic of plenty of people outraging at a the idea of an anime pandering at women, but you also ignored it. There we go. Now the image is in the correct spot. It's a written post, iamverysmart, you can't "sweep" anything under the rug. I was laughing at your idea that that a random blogger with 4k followers is some kind of INSTITUTION, because let's be honest. Sorry, not an argument. Try again. *Translation: "I still can't make a counter-argument, so I'll just use the same tactic of posting a random GIF because using the same tactic and expecting a different result is a great idea!" Does it make you mad you can't control what they say by the way? You know, freedom of speech and. Why should I be mad? They made Shield Hero more popular because of their outrage :) The view numbers that I cited are sheer proof of that. Too bad you don't have any proof or any good arguments. You just like to make provocations. EDIT: Lmao, your edit came too late and it doesn't make sense since I already expressed that I am happy that the SJW's are outraged over Shield Hero's 1st episode. |
VeryLTTPJan 14, 2019 4:45 PM
VeryLTTP said: Bernrika said: First, I link you a blog, and you think it's a post. Then, I correct you, and point out it's not a post, but a collection of outrages from anti-SJW (Which was the original argument). Then, you comments that there are no blog posts. Then, I point out that there are at least a couple of random bloggers. Aaaand great job at not directly addressing my refutation. I did though: I don't see the anti-SJW crowd getting so easily offended as they are not the ones who conflated fiction with reality. It's pretty much impossible to continue the discussion. I could keep linking "anti-sjw" getting outraged by stuff and you would still refuse to acknowledge them. But you acknowledge a random blogger with 4K FOLLOWERS ON TWITTER (That didn't even write a review apparently?) over famous old sites like Sankaku Complex.  Admitting you are wrong is a sign of personal grow. Try it once. Otherwise you'll spend the rest of your life reading garbage LN and checking The Quartering or Sargon videos. Sad! |
Bernrika said: I did though: It's pretty much impossible to continue the discussion. I could keep linking "anti-sjw" getting outraged by stuff and you would still refuse to acknowledge them. But you acknowledge a random blogger with 4K FOLLOWERS ON TWITTER (That didn't even write a review apparently?) over famous old sites like Sankaku Complex. Because you don't link the anti-SJW stuff that is equivalent to the level of ANN. Anime Feminist was just an example where they have a website of their own where they can publish whatever articles they want. ANN, has 289K Twitter followers. Got anything that matches that? And if you take a look at, for example, this article from Sankaku Complex, the very first thing they cite is the article from ANN. ANN is not a random dude from the internet. It's a site that has hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers. That's leagues away from a random blogger collecting posts from random users from random forums. And you need to prove that Sankaku Complex is "right wing". You love to throw that label around, but you haven't proved it. It's just a measly attempt at character assassination. Admitting you are wrong is a sign of personal grow. Try it once. Throwing random buzz-phrases do not substitute for backing up your claims. Sounds more like you need to grow up. Otherwise you'll spend the rest of your life reading garbage LN and checking The Quartering or Sargon videos. Sad! I like how you assume I watch these two channels even though I never said I do. Face it, you only care about sticking labels and throw ad hominems at people who disagree with you. Keep replying, you just keep proving my point time and time again. Grey-Zone said: @VeryLTTP @Bernrika What are the two of you even arguing about at this point? You are now spamming images or gifs as if this was /a/ or something. It looks like the two of you are only trying to get the last word in now. I'm just letting him hang under his metaphorical rope. It's entertaining, to say the least. I should also point out that only he is spamming GIFs. At least every time I reply, I don't make the same comment under a different coat of paint. |
VeryLTTPJan 14, 2019 5:56 PM
nina444 said: I'd argue, "the [real] reason behind most of them being female in the first place is...", a result of the ... author... [allowing] it to happen. We gotta to remember, the whole story/world is FICTION. That's the keyword here. It means, every author can literally do whatever he/she wants in fiction, and the author ... most likely has a thing for enslaving wahmen because how he depicted slavery in [tHiS] story. He even went out of his way to justify his actions by bestowing a lot of consent wahmen slaves upon his ... MC. I don't really care about the author's reasoning. He can deny [all] he likes but the fact still stands: [this] is a story about a salty dude (because of wahmen) doing his slavery thing. I don't need a reminder that this is fiction m8. I'm wondering what point your trying to get at. Including slaves in literature doesn't automatically imply the writer is male, nor does it imply they have a fetish for what they write. I question what you read on a daily basis. You say you don't care about the author's reasoning, yet you too are making up reasons for the author's storytelling. Sounds like you care to me. The author isn't even defending themselves on the subject, nor do I need to defend the author. I only pointed out logic behind it. You don't have to believe me. I'm not the author here. Let me ask you a few questions, because your clearly misinterpreting something: 1. How is the author depicting slavery in the story and what do you find unacceptable with this depiction? 2. How is the author justifying the MC's actions when what the slaves are consenting to is more EXP? If you've read, you know they aren't all women. I'd also prefer you call them children at this point, because saying otherwise is like calling yourself a lolicon. Their species just ages differently. The MC doesn't see them as women, so why are you? Seems your just so caught up on sex that you fail to see other factors. I'll agree the MC is salty; hence, the reason he seeks out opportunities for revenge. This wouldn't be a revenge story if someone wasn't salty about something. Nothing wrong with being salty in the first place. MC has every right to be. Not saying I'd be salty in his shoes, but you have to admit, an MC accepting it with his head down wouldn't make for that great a story. Seriously, what's your point? Sex has nothing to do with his actions. Survival is the primary goal. Revenge is icing on the cake. Harem is the cherry on top. What do you want me to say? |
ReloadJan 14, 2019 7:05 PM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
| I'm just wondering where do all those petty people offended and triggered by stuff like that come from... Misogyny, slavery, rape, whatever the issue, if it's even real, it's still just a fictional fricking story. I get they want to open everyone's eyes to those atrocities (still a fiction) or they just enjoy picking holes in everything they can creating more "controversies", making a villain out of everyone and adding fuel to the fire... Write you didn't like it, put it aside and forget, stop bitching left and right and get tae fuck Honestly, one can find issues even where they're nonexistent when they look hard enough |
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Because it doesn't matter. The original argument was "Anti-SJW are equally if not even more snowflakes". You just keep moving the goal post and putting up thresholds one needs to pass for it to be considerate an outrage. New-flash, these thresholds don't matter. The bazillion of YouTube comments getting outraged by gay people or black people are still getting outraged by pixels. They are - by definition - the snowflakes you complain so much. Why can't they deal with the fact it's just fiction? Now please, tell me how the people who got outraged by SSY Ep 8 are not snowflakes. Oh wait, you won't because you can't read or they don't fit the imaginary definition of snowflakes/outrage you created. Heck, you may even agree with them. I'm done. |
Bernrika said: Because it doesn't matter. The original argument was "Anti-SJW are equally if not even more snowflakes". And I successfully refuted that claim by showing that your examples are merely random blog and forum posts. Meanwhile, the examples I've shown are articles from writers of sites with large outreach, i.e. ANN's 189K Twitter followers. You have not shown the equivalent of that for the "anti-SJW" side. You just keep moving the goal post and putting up thresholds one needs to pass for it to be considerate an outrage. New-flash, these thresholds don't matter. I mentioned nothing about thresholds, so great job trying to shoot down a strawman argument. My point is that the outreach of the outrage from both sides are not the same. Much of the outrage from the "anti-SJW" side mostly come from forum posts as your examples have pointed out. Meanwhile, the outrage from the SJW side that I provided are articles published from sites with their own platforms. Big difference. And how about the points Grey-Zone also made? SJWs are more successful in getting media censored. Meanwhile, anti-SJWs generally don't have the goal to censor media. I also added onto his point by pointing out to Mark Waid threatening Antarctic Press to drop Jawbreakers or the indirect nod to the unprovoked GamerGate comment from Prison School's dub. Also big difference right there. As a result, pointing out at these differences do matter because for something to be equal, the amount of outrage from both sides have to be the same. As a result, you are the one moving the goalposts. The bazillion of YouTube comments getting outraged by gay people or black people are still getting outraged by pixels. A bazillion YouTube comments do not stand equally with outrage articles from writers from large sites. Once again, you fail to see the distinction. They are - by definition - the snowflakes you complain so much. Why can't they deal with the fact it's just fiction? But you said that the original argument was "Anti-SJW are equally if not even more snowflakes". You only proved the existence. You did not prove that they act like snowflakes equally as SJWs. Now please, tell me how the people who got outraged by SSY Ep 8 are not snowflakes. See what I mean? You just keep proving my point. That is a link to a thread. That's not an article. A thread doesn't have as much outreach as an article from ANN. Oh wait, you won't because you can't read or they don't fit the imaginary definition of snowflakes/outrage you created. Because the outrage is not equal and therefore, does not adequately support the original claim that you pointed out. I'm sorry, but a bunch of random users in a forum is nowhere near equal in standing with a writer from ANN, let alone multiple writers as shown from ANN's Shield Hero Episode 1 review. And the thread of reactions to one episode of a show pales in comparison to calls for censorship, hijacking English dubs for the sake of making unprovoked political jabs, or threatening a publisher to not publish a comic. Heck, you may even agree with them. And why does that matter? That has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'm done. You were done a long while ago. As soon as you threw "Muh right wing snowflakes", it was over for you. You just make the same statements, but with different coats of paint, i.e. ad nauseaum. |
VeryLTTPJan 14, 2019 9:53 PM
Bernrika said: Because it doesn't matter. The original argument was "Anti-SJW are equally if not even more snowflakes". You just keep moving the goal post and putting up thresholds one needs to pass for it to be considerate an outrage. New-flash, these thresholds don't matter. The bazillion of YouTube comments getting outraged by gay people or black people are still getting outraged by pixels. They are - by definition - the snowflakes you complain so much. Why can't they deal with the fact it's just fiction? Now please, tell me how the people who got outraged by SSY Ep 8 are not snowflakes. Oh wait, you won't because you can't read or they don't fit the imaginary definition of snowflakes/outrage you created. Heck, you may even agree with them. I'm done. In that case it seems more like a case where the people in question failed to comprehend that it's a Utopian/Dystopian society story, something along the lines of Brave New World. Brave New World also had mass orgies. At no point did Brave New World or Shin Sekai Yori actually "promote" orgy parties or LGBTQ relationships or in any way presented them as either morally or culturally "correct". Rather they were just presented as is, being a radically different society from what we know or one might even argue that they have a purely negative connotation instead. There was no "hidden agenda" to promote anything by the authors. So all in all, the "snow-flakes" (from a 2012 thread) severely lacked watching/reading comprehension more than anything. People saying that this series is "promoting slavery" and such things are making the same mistake here. Nothing is being "promoted" here. Read the interview linked by Huex3 a few posts before. The slavery is supposed to reflect the concept of modern Japanese "corporate slaves" rather than the slavery done by ancient civilisations like Romans or Athenes. And the author also mentioned that morals are - to some extent - fragile or even an outright luxuary in certain situations. The Dilemma of having to choose between death or doing something immoral is not really a rare concept. The currently airing Reincarnated as a Slime anime does something similar with the Orcs as well. That's the reason why the author "chose to write it that way", not some imaginary reason made up by people on this thread. |
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Grey-Zone said: So all in all, the "snow-flakes" (from a 2012 thread) severely lacked watching/reading comprehension more than anything. Oh please. It's just a bunch of snowflakes getting triggered by two dudes kissing in an anime regarding of the connotation. What happened to "it's just fiction" or "Don't like don't watch it"? Somehow these people were clearly offended enough to throw a 13 pages tantrum that last to this day (Not counting the delete comments). But it's just an example. Just look at Overwatch's reaction to Tracer 2 years ago. Tlou 2 trailer. Haruchika's Ep. 1 reactions to this very forum (Orr really, any time sometimes panders to women). I have no idea how you can't see the forest for the trees, but you are very good at it. |
Bernrika said: Oh please. It's just a bunch of snowflakes getting triggered by two dudes kissing in an anime regarding of the connotation. What happened to "it's just fiction" or "Don't like don't watch it"? Somehow these people were clearly offended enough to throw a 13 pages tantrum that last to this day (Not counting the delete comments). But it's just an example. Just look at Overwatch's reaction to Tracer 2 years ago. Tlou 2 trailer. Haruchika's Ep. 1 reactions to this very forum (Orr really, any time sometimes panders to women). I have no idea how you can't see the forest for the trees, but you are very good at it. Overwatch - It was assumed that Tracer's old pose was censored because "Omg, her butt is visible!" It turned out that her pose was getting replaced with the pinup pose. The situation was mostly left alone after that. TLOU2 - There was little reason for the kiss. It was just... there. Who is that character that kissed Ellie? Why should I care about her? What kind of role does she play? The trailer did not answer those questions. In other words, that scene felt shoehorned. The one who's not seeing the forest of the trees is you as you do not understand the full context of some of the examples you've cited. |
dD_ShockTrooper said: It'll only get jumped if a radical fringe group like incels start waving this around like a flag as "OMG just like real life lolololol femoids r evil". Then we'll get people who start arguing the strawman they think it is because the incel group presents it like that, and they never bothered to actually watch the source, which by comparison is pretty weak and non-threatening. This is the only situation I really see arising |
Bernrika said: Grey-Zone said: So all in all, the "snow-flakes" (from a 2012 thread) severely lacked watching/reading comprehension more than anything. Oh please. It's just a bunch of snowflakes getting triggered by two dudes kissing in an anime regarding of the connotation. What happened to "it's just fiction" or "Don't like don't watch it"? Somehow these people were clearly offended enough to throw a 13 pages tantrum that last to this day (Not counting the delete comments). I don't even disagree with the fact that these people are "snowflakes" as well, but on top of that they also are sensitive about something that SSY itself was SUPPOSED TO make the audience feel surprised and confused about at the minimum, or at least that the scene is not an endorsement by the author for the actions of the characters in that episode. And the same thing applies to our current situation in this thread. People conveniently misinterpret the contents of the series so that it can conform to their pre-established beliefs, though to be fair it is indeed less obvious than the case of SSY. In regards to this show's Crunchyroll broadcast being affected by the SJWs or other groups, I'd simply take a look through the official Crunchyroll Twitter handle every now and then. If they'd do something drastic they'd definitly first stop the advertising of the show. As long as they are promoting Shield Hero (and they actually really gave a push for that series before it even aired), then it's pretty much impossible for any sudden "change of mind" to occur. |
Grey-ZoneJan 14, 2019 11:57 PM
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| NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAY. YOU CANT STOP ME FROM ENJOYING THIS SHOW!!!!!!!! STOP ME IF YOU CAN!... DO IT!... IM STILL WATCHING!COME ON!... DO IT!!!  |
AnitekuJan 15, 2019 2:42 AM
| I'd quote someone, but then I'd later realize they likely judge books by their cover and need only finish the story before jumping to conclusions. If anything, the story makes it clear that woman aren't all bad. Episode 1 might lead one to believe otherwise, but that's because they haven't digested the whole story yet. Why would anyone believe the MC views the princess to be a representation of all woman? If you were in his shoes, would you sum up one bad experience as stereotypical, and not the fault of the individual(s) themselves? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say NO. Sure, he generalizes at the beginning of the story, but that's as an otoku. As for RL, his anger was directed at those in direct relation. If you think the MC's reaction to betrayal was overblown, then I'd ask how so. Personally, I'm not the type who'd seek out revenge, but it seems no one has realized the MC isn't either. I've watched/read revenge stories, and characters put in a lot of effort into ruining the life(s) of those who wronged them. There's no effort put in here on the MC's part. Assuming we've all watched episode 1, the MC's last words to the kingdom were, "I'm really weak, you see. I don't have a second to waste." If anyone interpreted this properly, they'd see that even getting revenge on the princess would be a waste of his time. He's not one of those, "you'll rue this day", types; however, he is one of those, "serves you right", kind of guys. His life is far more important than revenge, but he will gloat when things go his way. This is in no way an overreaction. Him buying a slave isn't even related to his feelings. It's a part of his survival. I will admit his survival is a means of getting revenge since the kingdom would prefer he die in a ditch. As for the sex of said slave(s), it'd be a bonus for him if he actually took pleasure in making them fight, but he doesn't. Would've been worse if he bought her with the intent of letting her die after leveling up enough to survive on his own. As for the reasoning behind the betrayal, the story spells some of it out for us, so let's do the math: 1. MC gets more money then other heroes. Wouldn't the other heroes consider this unfair given they have more party members to cater to? 2. Princess' equipment costed more than half the money the MC received. This isn't something she could pull off with the other hero parties. 3. Country's people didn't believe in him from the very beginning. Would be spoiler to explain exactly why out the gate, as being the weakest says plenty on its own. 4. Was statemented that they didn't need to summon all 4 together. This implies they went against common practice, and had no qualms removing the weakest. (more money for the other heroes) 5. Other heroes still believe this is a game, so they followed the narrative the princess setup; disregarding the MCs pleas as if he were an NPC and they were the protagonists. This is all content from episode 1. Notice how complaints often mention source material out of context, make author out to be some villain, or judge the audience for continuing to watching it. If anything, the "controversy" here comes from blowing all these out of proportion. Yes, there's slaves and false allegations. Yes, the gender of the author was revealed. Yes, this caters to a specific audience. What does that have to do with rest of the story? Nothing. It would seem those who judge books by their cover choose to ignore the areas where the story is executed well. They'd probably enjoy the story more if it were even more generic than it already is. Not everyone sees issue with creativity. If this were historically accurate, would they still complain? If it wasn't, I'd complain too but this is fiction here. If the genders were swapped, would they call "misandry" when they see it? I don't judge authors based on the ratio of their characters to begin with, so I wouldn't join in on that front either. If there was some political agenda, I'd likely be oblivious to it. If I do notice something, I wouldn't be quick to point it out. I know some of us wish to warn others of something harmful but, more often than not, not everyone sees any harm in entertainment. Then again, maybe they're just disappointed non-fiction was depict in fiction, which they feel should be void of it. Most stories contain humans, so probably not the case. |
ReloadJan 15, 2019 5:28 PM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
| @Xederpl So what you are saying is that you agree TateYuu portrays slavery in a positive light but you would not call it promoting? @Reload 1. No, he could have simply chosen to try to win people over by hard work and showing his sincerity. Now he goes from wide eyed innocent protag to a slave owner in a few hours. My memory on the exact time in the LN is hazy but in the anime he gives up in maybe a day. Alternatively he could simply find a person who either doesn't believe or doesn't care about the accusation. It isn't realistic to say that there is not a single person like that in a capital-sized city. 2. Yes. It doesn't make the slavery any more excusable though. By the way, I'm probably going to comment on these threads less now that the second episode has aired. I don't typically watch series I hate, so I'll be increasingly out of the loop. |
NthDegree said: @Xederpl So what you are saying is that you agree TateYuu portrays slavery in a positive light but you would not call it promoting? To promote something means to endorse something. For someone to endorse a practice, he/she makes a conscious, clear-cut decision and message that he/she approves that practice. To portray something means to show, represent, or to depict. The meanings between promotion and portrayal are not withing the same vincinity, not even close. You even admit that the so-called normalization (in which it isn't) is unintentional: The difference here is mainly that I don't believe TateYuu does it intentionally, however, it is distasteful regardless. However, that contradicts your original claim that Shield Hero promotes slavery because one needs to have intent to promote something. 2. Yes. It doesn't make the slavery any more excusable though. Who's saying that slavery is excusable or that the series is claiming that slavery is excusable? The focus of your arguments are sorely lacking. |
NthDegree said: @Xederpl So what you are saying is that you agree TateYuu portrays slavery in a positive light but you would not call it promoting? @Reload 1. No, he could have simply chosen to try to win people over by hard work and showing his sincerity. Now he goes from wide eyed innocent protag to a slave owner in a few hours. My memory on the exact time in the LN is hazy but in the anime he gives up in maybe a day. Alternatively he could simply find a person who either doesn't believe or doesn't care about the accusation. It isn't realistic to say that there is not a single person like that in a capital-sized city. 2. Yes. It doesn't make the slavery any more excusable though. By the way, I'm probably going to comment on these threads less now that the second episode has aired. I don't typically watch series I hate, so I'll be increasingly out of the loop. The slave would have died but i guess that makes you happier right? |
| I personally think anyone who complains about something they dislike are just a bunch of babies tbh. It's sad this show isn't gonna have it's actual contents talked about for awhile given all the major talk surrounding the series currently has been about the author and his views on certain things. One of the things about entertainment is that it's supposed to be a form of escapism. Now it's not like it's wrong for people to talk about their opinions on certain subjects and relate it to real life, whether it's something personal or not, but honestly it shouldn't reflect the series in a negative light at all. |
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