NthDegree said: To be honest, we wouldn't need rule #7 if we just had more active mods. I like discussing controversial topics.... Sadly they are too lazy to moderate the fourms. A simple solution is to get WAY more fourm mods but yet they are too lazy to do that too. They just want all the power to themselves. |
Zachhh said: NthDegree said: To be honest, we wouldn't need rule #7 if we just had more active mods. I like discussing controversial topics.... Sadly they are too lazy to moderate the fourms. A simple solution is to get WAY more fourm mods but yet they are too lazy to do that too. They just want all the power to themselves. Well, I don't think there is need to be quite that black-and-white about it. My opinion on the issue is that they do need more mods, like more than just one or two, but the problem is that you can't just give the rights to anyone. Nobody likes having unfair/too emotional mods after all. I think the solution for this could be having at least one temporary mod that could help out. Most of temporary mods would not become actual mods, but it would be a nice way of both getting an extra set of eyes and going through potential candidates for permanent mod status. tl;dr: Yeah, we need more mods. |
| it basically just lets mods be as lazy as they want. i come to forums to have a good time, not be pressed 24/7 by people who don't even fucking contribute anything on what threads can and can't be made. just look at how many mods they've removed, there has been regularly NO ONE online for extended periods of time. the problem is never the users because you can just ban people, its the piss poor moderating that has expedited the forums' slow descent into a wasteland. anyone that's been here before 2016 remembers what they did to CD too, it's the same stupid thing. people have bitched and whined repeatedly, yet nothing is done, even after this place has become about as interesting as my sex life recently. though this place was already losing a lot of its userbase and fun before the new rules, they certainly haven't helped anything.when oh when will kineta or someone swoon down and put their lap dogs in their place. |
YomiyukiOct 16, 2018 4:22 PM
 Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places But we're trash, you and me We're the litter on the breeze We're the lovers on the streets Just trash, me and you It's in everything we do It's in everything we do |
| I think forums are a thing of the past. They can no longer exist and be fun because of how much moderation there is everywhere now. |
| abortion and gun control were hard topics to shitpost on anyway |
 |
| another thing too before this is locked, we used to have threads like this and they wouldn't be locked or fucked with, but i think it's gotten to the point now where these people are just really filled with some fucking weird contempt for the users here that they'll just lock it with the same dumbass reason they use on other threads. "this thread doesn't encourage discussion, so it's been locked"  |
YomiyukiOct 16, 2018 4:17 PM
Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places But we're trash, you and me We're the litter on the breeze We're the lovers on the streets Just trash, me and you It's in everything we do It's in everything we do |
| It's akin to performing brain surgery with a chainsaw. It's reflects the same sentiment as precrime and group punishment. There is a thread that showed up day 1 of it's implementation and not only the rule remained it underwent not a single change despite various mentions of how to make it not so wide sweeping as to shut down any discussion worth discussing https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1724675 Afloo said: Maybe its something to Separate CD (Casual Discussion;more Chill talk about things other than anime) from CE (Current Events; Political stuff mostly). They want people to know that there is a time and a Place for everything. They know that people tand to post Stuff that belongs to CE in CD so they made a rule prohiting that kind of thing in that part of the forums. They also want to Preserve their public Image. Nope because some topics can't be posted in CE at all so it actually eliminates entire topics. nicethings said: It's mostly to get rid of the extremists who've been spreading trash and misinformation, using the site as what's basically a recruiting ground for the alt right because there are a lot of antisocial young anime fans who'd fall for their lies if they're desperate enough (that's the sad part). Thus far it's mostly prevailed, sans a few users, a lot of the fashies were deterred by the rule and stopped coming back. I say mostly, but mostly is still progress over none at all. Some of the rules are a little dumb, like "fag" being considered an offense, but much of the context of rule 7 does exist for a damn good reason. People were fucking tired of seeing racists carry over from CE into casual discussion And so did a lot of everyone else leave. There are hardly any users left. It's way more wide sweeping than you're making it out to be. |
traedOct 16, 2018 4:52 PM
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| It's one of the worst rules I've seen on a website Even topics associated with animals are blocked. It is quite dishonest to impose such an absurd rule and at the same time keep sections like CE and CD open. It makes sense that in a political forum prohibits talking about topics centered on sport when there are no sections that induce to talk about it. It makes sense that in a religious forum prohibits talking about topics centered on politics when there are no sections that induce to talk about it. It makes sense that a science forum prohibits talking about topics centered on videogames when there are no sections that induce to talk about it. However, what sense have that MAL prohibit talking about controversial topics - be they religious, theological, philosophical, political, cultural, social, etc ... - when we have sections like CE and CD? It would be more honest to close both sections, so we accelerate the migration of users that we really contribute in these forums. Make no mistake, without users that provide quality - that is, the users that have no problem with the controversy handled in a civilized way - these forums rot, because the rest of the users contribute little or nothing. How many users who hate civilized controversy have made significant contributions to the forums? Forget it! normally those people have nothing interesting to say because they have no ideals to defend. In fact, I could bet that the best Japanese animation debates are making by people with the ability to speak a variety of topics. What makes the "virtual world" special is that it allows us to taste things that are harder to taste in the "real world". Many things feel more real on the internet because many of us tend to take off the masks that we use in "reality". Without that, we only have yawns. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NthDegree said: To be honest, we wouldn't need rule #7 if we just had more active mods. I like discussing controversial topics.... Same here! I could bet that many of your philosophical and political views would be essentially different from mine, however I recognize that it can be very entertaining and funny to debate with people like you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @Tenma I think CD Rule #7 is actually pretty useful. This is, after all, primarily a site about anime and manga, rather than politics or other highly contentious topics. In my view, the rule help keeps the community from fragmenting over things totally unrelated to our hobby. Really? Please, let me see your "great" anime debate contributions. I am very interested in seeing your contributions to this website. !Rayos! There is a big difference between moderate a forum and impede debate that demands sincerity or intellect. Even CD is a shadow of what it used to be because most of its best users have left. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @Lost_Viking It's absurd, they should just ban certain problem users instead. (especially the sensationalist --ALEX-- and the race-baiter Nyu). Why? just because both say what they really think? ---------- ɐʇɐʇsodɐ un ʎos |
_Nemrod_Oct 17, 2018 3:12 AM
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Vulze said: Noboru said: And all of that would be manageable if there weren't the need for so many extra activities and reports. Smaller boards can easily handle with 1-2 mods and so much activity isn't on this whole page, either. Point is, much of the stuff is rather harmless and doesn't even need to be viewed as a rule breaking or being worthy of reporting. People have a self-interest in following rules to get a normal climate of conversing with others. Which leads to my statement: some people have become too sensitive that they would rather kill possible discussions than to have other people state things they don't like to read. Maybe so, I don't know exactly their logistics but I doubt that would work. On my previous post, there was no moderator online. As I'm typing this, there is again no moderator online. And yet you expect to have 1-2 mods just for smaller boards alone? I suspect that's already asking too much. Users have their own interests, some of which are in line with the rules, some of which are at odds with the rules. It's in their best interest to avoid a ban. You could say many want a nice atmosphere, but then some seek precisely the opposite. The rule can be understood through a logistical approach. There is no moral high ground in censoring this broad range of topics. Personally, I would prefer to have the rule removed. But then I neither have to spend time and energy dealing with stuff in the forum nor am I responsible and expected to keep the forum clean. Yomiyuki said: another thing too before this is locked, we used to have threads like this and they wouldn't be locked or fucked with, but i think it's gotten to the point now where these people are just really filled with some fucking weird contempt for the users here that they'll just lock it with the same dumbass reason they use on other threads. "this thread doesn't encourage discussion, so it's been locked" [img]https://i.imgur.com/EpzpMU6.gif[img] In case this thread gets locked, you might think to yourself, "hah, knew it!" But the way in which you choose to address the mods is notably disrespectful and ineffective. Let's say other users follow your example, it would only be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Well if the mods don't have the time to actually moderate the fourms. They should not be mods at all then. |
Vulze said: lmfao "ineffective?" read traed's post. we've already had this discussion with them thousands of times in thousands of ways. nothing gets through to these people, yet they still have the nerve to ask for proof that users don't like the new rules, after the countless threads we've had.Noboru said: And all of that would be manageable if there weren't the need for so many extra activities and reports. Smaller boards can easily handle with 1-2 mods and so much activity isn't on this whole page, either. Point is, much of the stuff is rather harmless and doesn't even need to be viewed as a rule breaking or being worthy of reporting. People have a self-interest in following rules to get a normal climate of conversing with others. Which leads to my statement: some people have become too sensitive that they would rather kill possible discussions than to have other people state things they don't like to read. Maybe so, I don't know exactly their logistics but I doubt that would work. On my previous post, there was no moderator online. As I'm typing this, there is again no moderator online. And yet you expect to have 1-2 mods just for smaller boards alone? I suspect that's already asking too much. Users have their own interests, some of which are in line with the rules, some of which are at odds with the rules. It's in their best interest to avoid a ban. You could say many want a nice atmosphere, but then some seek precisely the opposite. The rule can be understood through a logistical approach. There is no moral high ground in censoring this broad range of topics. Personally, I would prefer to have the rule removed. But then I neither have to spend time and energy dealing with stuff in the forum nor am I responsible and expected to keep the forum clean. Yomiyuki said: another thing too before this is locked, we used to have threads like this and they wouldn't be locked or fucked with, but i think it's gotten to the point now where these people are just really filled with some fucking weird contempt for the users here that they'll just lock it with the same dumbass reason they use on other threads. "this thread doesn't encourage discussion, so it's been locked" [img]https://i.imgur.com/EpzpMU6.gif[img] In case this thread gets locked, you might think to yourself, "hah, knew it!" But the way in which you choose to address the mods is notably disrespectful and ineffective. Let's say other users follow your example, it would only be a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places But we're trash, you and me We're the litter on the breeze We're the lovers on the streets Just trash, me and you It's in everything we do It's in everything we do |
| It's over-moderation pure and simple. Talk about anything, only stepping in when necessary. |
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shotz said: basically it's so generalized it lets mods lock literally any thread at their discretion. i get the intent and can get behind that but all it is is banning discussion instead of moderating. what he said, I agree completely. The rule allows mods to be lazy |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
BrightFlashLight said: Controversial topics never stay civil ever. It is a matter of when someone will start something to ensure chaos prevail, trolling, abusing, extreme views, misinformation, you name it, they all have been done before. It is impossible to have a legitimate discussion with certain users because everything will be twisted and they will bring that mentality outside of their threads too. It is a matter of social cohesiveness and community fragmentation when it comes to opinions. You can have different opinions but they usually aren't accepted when the divide becomes too big. You could also say Anime discussions never stay civil because everyone has a fav and hated character, anime, VA etc...therefor MAL shouldn't even have an anime forum and all anime discussion should be banned. What you say isn't even true. I myself in the past even made a religion thread and an abortion thread that no one became uncivil in. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
traed said: BrightFlashLight said: Controversial topics never stay civil ever. It is a matter of when someone will start something to ensure chaos prevail, trolling, abusing, extreme views, misinformation, you name it, they all have been done before. It is impossible to have a legitimate discussion with certain users because everything will be twisted and they will bring that mentality outside of their threads too. It is a matter of social cohesiveness and community fragmentation when it comes to opinions. You can have different opinions but they usually aren't accepted when the divide becomes too big. You could also say Anime discussions never stay civil because everyone has a fav and hated character, anime, VA etc...therefor MAL shouldn't even have an anime forum and all anime discussion should be banned. What you say isn't even true. I myself in the past even made a religion thread and an abortion thread that no one became uncivil in. Also mods should realize that they can easily ban the trolls and bad apples by having a larger moderation staff and assigned them to 1-2 boards. |
| Merged zach's thread into this one nicethings said: It's mostly to get rid of the extremists who've been spreading trash and misinformation, using the site as what's basically a recruiting ground for the alt right because there are a lot of antisocial young anime fans who'd fall for their lies if they're desperate enough (that's the sad part). Thus far it's mostly prevailed, sans a few users, a lot of the fashies were deterred by the rule and stopped coming back. I say mostly, but mostly is still progress over none at all. Some of the rules are a little dumb, like "fag" being considered an offense, but much of the context of rule 7 does exist for a damn good reason. People were fucking tired of seeing racists carry over from CE into casual discussion Pretty much this. I love people bitching about it, but they only see their point. "Mods should just spend 40 hours a week for free to moderate a politics board even though this is an anime forum. They're lazy!" "Muh freedom of speech!" >Stop it. MAL is privately owned. "Just hire more mods!" Right, cause they grow on trees. It's really hard to find suitable people. "Just ban the trolls!" With what reason? They weren't breaking any rules. People have learned to troll while being at most: borderline trolling. Hard to deal with and if we'd ban them then instead of complaints about rule 7 we'd have complaints about harsh bans. "Not every controversial topics gets out of control!" Most of them do though. It might not seem it, but there's almost always some jackass who turns even the most innocent looking thread into an anti immigration or anti jew thread. We also often remove posts, so it may look clean, but that's only because we just cleaned it. I really don't understand why people are so desperate to talk about politics over here. But I guess it's mainly the vocal minority, because I've heard plenty of people who are very much in favor of these rules. I mostly see the shitposting crowd complaining. I probably won't respond to any quotes on this post unless it seems response worthy to me. I've discussed this topic to death already. MAL is an anime forum. Not /r/politics. Go there if you want to discuss these things. BrightFlashLight said: I think you are going a little too far about anime discussions topics. Yes, people are entitled to their own opinions and their differences. What I'm talking about is when people start not accepting such differences and become bitter in their words regarding another person's opinions. I did mention it's a matter of when. So there's a possibility it won't happen until very long later. As far as I have seen, it does happen eventually. As for your religion and abortion threads, we may well have a topic that seems controversial related or is tagged by the moderators as controversial or not allowed but isn't really inducing the divide controverisial topics usually invite. We may have to debble into what constitutes a controversial topic but I'm not going there. You can enlighten me on that part since I don't really have the knowledge to define them or debate about what make what controversial. I am also speaking from experiences from threads I see and I see you are too. So it might have been different for you. One might also argue why not just ban the users who start the shit to begin. But it gets tougher than that when I can think of users who might be writing extreme views but truly believed in what they said. It is hard for anyone to gauge the contents of posts that seems legitimate but at the same time invite problems. The fairer position to take in this case might just be not to ban a user but not allowed it entirely across the board for all users. To be honest, it does suck for people who have interesting or intelligent things to say with regards to those controversial topics. But in some cases, we either have this or that. And we have to pick a difficult choices. It's probaly why the rule covers such broad definitions but I have no idea how strict that rule are applied. The decision can vary sometimes and seems inconsistent because a hard decision may be involved. Really like this post too. Summarizes it very nicely. We spent months thinking of what to do and working on the rules trying to get rid of the nazi etc type threads while still allowing for the important controversial threads to be talked about. |
ArdanazOct 17, 2018 1:11 AM
Ardanaz said: "Just ban the trolls!" With what reason? They weren't breaking any rules. People have learned to troll while being at most: borderline trolling. Hard to deal with and if we'd ban them then instead of complaints about rule 7 we'd have complaints about harsh bans. I wish to find said people and learn from them. Learn their ways. |
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| This thread didn't need to be 6 pages long. Yeah OP we get it, your pissed. But look around you. This forum system looks 10 years out of date. They don't give a shit about us. Just move on. |
| “Loddfafnir, listen to my counsel: You will fare well if you follow it, It will help you much if you heed it. If aware that another is wicked, say so: Make no truce or treaty with foes.” - Havamal 127 |
Sawilagar said: This thread didn't need to be 6 pages long. Yeah OP we get it, your pissed. But look around you. This forum system looks 10 years out of date. They don't give a shit about us. Just move on. It isn't. I merged two threads together. The forum wasn't made by us and the ones who did make it didn't make the rules. |
Ardanaz said: Yet the ones who manage the site itself (you know, the ones with the real power to change things) obviously don't care enough to keep up with the times, much less care what the community thinks. Sawilagar said: This thread didn't need to be 6 pages long. Yeah OP we get it, your pissed. But look around you. This forum system looks 10 years out of date. They don't give a shit about us. Just move on. The forum wasn't made by us and the ones who did make it didn't make the rules. |
| “Loddfafnir, listen to my counsel: You will fare well if you follow it, It will help you much if you heed it. If aware that another is wicked, say so: Make no truce or treaty with foes.” - Havamal 127 |
Sawilagar said: Yet the ones who manage the site itself (you know, the ones with the real power to change things) obviously don't care enough to keep up with the times, much less care what the community thinks. Agreed. Although personally I think the design is still pretty decent, but there is a LOT that needs to be updated. But that isn't what this topic is about. |
| This place is worse than Neogaf, mods are spineless cowards who take orders from forum cliques. This dump should have stayed dead after MAL fell apart. Tbh you might as well just embrace it and purge any dissenting opinions instead of this illusion of "freedom" but you don't even have the balls to do that. |
Railey2 said: dehuman said: well that's reasonable enough, but the best solution they could come up with was (to stick to the analogy) to burn the whole forest down? I can't believe that. It's just incompetent.i agree that controversial topics should be allowed as long as people do not become toxic insulting each other all the time answer by a mod on another thread https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1723982 they want to prevent anecdotal incidents that overgeneralizes groups of people They could have banned @LoneWolf instead, but then how would we laugh? (((^: |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
We would report peope who cant quote users when they should. Thats a lot of fun. |
 |
| @Swagernator I'd get the joke if I understood what you're saying >.> @Ardanaz Don't want to shoot on the ambulance here, but: ""Just ban the trolls!" With what reason? They weren't breaking any rules. People have learned to troll while being at most: borderline trolling. Hard to deal with and if we'd ban them then instead of complaints about rule 7 we'd have complaints about harsh bans." I'm sorry but this only happened because of inconsistent and sometimes defaillant moderation. People like Alti or Allen should have never stayed 2-3 years spitting their venom on CE, calling other users degenerates, faggots, combustible for german ovens, etc. I'm sorry, but it only turned out of control because moderation didn't care and/or sympathized with the trolls at times. The point of baiting and trolling is to leave a doubt; if you guys wait 3 years until the situation turns to shit because you have a doubt, ofc it's going to be a disaster. I won't comment on the fact some mods seemed more offended by jokes about nazis or than by nazis themselves making threads every day >.> Or that nothing was done at all when the target was trans people for a year, because none of the staff sympathize/cares about trans. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Ardanaz said: Pretty much this. I love people bitching about it, but they only see their point. "Mods should just spend 40 hours a week for free to moderate a politics board even though this is an anime forum. They're lazy!" "Muh freedom of speech!" >Stop it. MAL is privately owned. "Just hire more mods!" Right, cause they grow on trees. It's really hard to find suitable people. "Just ban the trolls!" With what reason? They weren't breaking any rules. People have learned to troll while being at most: borderline trolling. Hard to deal with and if we'd ban them then instead of complaints about rule 7 we'd have complaints about harsh bans. "Not every controversial topics gets out of control!" Most of them do though. It might not seem it, but there's almost always some jackass who turns even the most innocent looking thread into an anti immigration or anti jew thread. We also often remove posts, so it may look clean, but that's only because we just cleaned it. I really don't understand why people are so desperate to talk about politics over here. But I guess it's mainly the vocal minority, because I've heard plenty of people who are very much in favor of these rules. I mostly see the shitposting crowd complaining. I probably won't respond to any quotes on this post unless it seems response worthy to me. I've discussed this topic to death already. MAL is an anime forum. Not /r/politics. Go there if you want to discuss these things. Most sites I've seen just have a rule specifically against Nazis, blatant racists, sexists and trolls. One violation and they are banned no warning. Rule 7 is a cowardly way to approach things by trying to protect their name by lumping these people with everyone that can have civil discussion just in the name of impartiality when not all sides are equal nor do all sides represent reversed views. I've already explained a few ways rule 7 should be improved when this first thread was made but was any changes made? Doesn't seem so. Sure I didn't rewrite the rules down to every detail but at least tried to give some rough outline improvements and pointed out where there is obvious contradictions and ambiguities. This is the only site with rules like these which effect everyone and for good reason because it makes these sections of the forum pointless and I am sure not first to say this. In fact the only thing keeping CD on life support are a bunch of listing threads where not much can really be said which is what CD has been reduced to. And haven't you noticed many of the people that approve it don't even post here in CD so often and basically hate any discussion that requires any level of deeper thought especially if it isn't anime related? Some users all they do is complain about other threads while never making a contrubition to anything and never making a thread themselves either. The rest just don't realize the full scope of the new rules and only focus on small aspects. No one that actually contributes to effort filled discussions and knows the real implications of rule 7 is for it they either are against it all together or think it needs to be heavily reworked to not be fishing with dynamite. As I brought up before politics is an inescapable part of life and closely ties to every aspect of it including the internet, manga, anime, visual novels, video games and MAL itself via cencorship of media, political themes in media, trade deals, the wages of people that work in the industry and so on. It's everywhere |
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| @traed sorry mate, but you same as me same as other users are why this rule exist. Cuz we simply like to spice the shit when the right thread is here. |
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Clebardman said: @Ardanaz Don't want to shoot on the ambulance here, but: ""Just ban the trolls!" With what reason? They weren't breaking any rules. People have learned to troll while being at most: borderline trolling. Hard to deal with and if we'd ban them then instead of complaints about rule 7 we'd have complaints about harsh bans." I'm sorry but this only happened because of inconsistent and sometimes defaillant moderation. People like Alti or Allen should have never stayed 2-3 years spitting their venom on CE, calling other users degenerates, faggots, combustible for german ovens, etc. I'm sorry, but it only turned out of control because moderation didn't care and/or sympathized with the trolls at times. The point of baiting and trolling is to leave a doubt; if you guys wait 3 years until the situation turns to shit because you have a doubt, ofc it's going to be a disaster. Do keep in mind that only the 5th ban is permanent. People can get away with too much in my opinion. They also expire after 6 months. The thing about the venom spitting though is that usually it isn't as obvious as in the examples you listed. Those are very clear rule violations, but if someone makes a thread about some nazi rally or whatever, it doesn't really violate the previous rules. You can always say trolling, but it's often just too borderline or not clear enough. We try to be as consistant as possible, but that is easier said than done. Personal opinion rarely gets in the way of things and it really shouldn't either. If I feel too connected to a certain topic, I'll let someone else deal with it. Like if someone I really like or really can't stand gets reported, I'll ask someone else to deal with it, because there's often some level of bias involved or at least it'd seem so even if there isn't any. I won't comment on the fact some mods seemed more offended by jokes about nazis or than by nazis themselves making threads every day >.> Or that nothing was done at all when the target was trans people for a year, because none of the staff sympathize/cares about trans. I think understand what you mean and I definitely think we could've done better. Don't remember when trans people were the target and nothing was done though. I've locked/removed plenty of threads before about trans people and I've banned people for trolling/insulting them. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ @traed: That's cool, but banning every single person who makes a troll thread without warning and just instantly permanent seems a tad much to me. Imagine the complaint threads we'd be getting then. Speaking of change to rule 7, I'm currently discussing adding more things to the list of 'significant topics' to make it more clear what can be posted about. If you have any suggestions, feel free to hit me up! I see a fair few of the regulars in support of it though. I won't deny the rule hits people who CAN discuss these topics properly, but unfortunately too many can't. We've had this discussion before like you said. I won't deny politics is everywhere, but it wasn't always like this on MAL. Since about late 2016 is when it really started to go downhill. CE was nothing but controversial bait topics littered with bait, insults, etc. CD had a lot of it too, but it wasn't as bad as CE. I don't know what changed, but it became like a nazi recruitment board or something. There were constant threads about anti immigration, how jews are terrible blablabla, what stupid thing Trump did today, some random alt-right person who got into trouble, etc. The replies always followed a similar pattern. Very quickly they'd all turn into just a giant shitshow. People baiting, insulting each other, spamming. We tried cleaning it normally for at least a year, but it just got so out of control where if you looked at the report queue, it was like 90% CE reports. It didn't even look like an anime forum anymore. Even after many bans and permabans for some people too, it just didn't help. There'd always be some new person who'd jump in to share his hot take on politics. I think I'm rambling at this point. I understand your frustrations. You're not a shitposter and you can have proper discussions. Unfortunately that trait isn't shared by a lot of others, so the problem had to be removed at the source. Hope you understand. |
| @Ardanaz But waiting until Alti started spewing antisemitic insults at another user wasn't needed when 100% of his posting history was about le jew conspiracy, Soros and libtards, posting pepe pictures and shit. About the permaban thing... Got close to it twice, never spent my days making women or jew or trans or refugee-hating threads like some users who are still here and still do nothing but post threads meant to insult huge portions of this place's userbase. The moderation here is higly biased in favor of smartasses and trolls, letting people fill their posts with insults as long as they're not directed toward a specific person. I'm sorry, I'll always prefer the honesty of a direct insult to the hypocrisy of some people here, and I think it's a shame someone like Alti got banned because he flipped out and insulted another user directly. Because it means he could have kept his dumbass troll act inpunitely without that. About the trans thing: I'll just say the forums wouldn't have been swarmed by very degrading threads treating some users like less than human for a year if said threads were directed toward, lets say, lolicons? (Yes, I'm still butthurt about this ban, and never tried my chance at making a joke about lolicons ever again, while I still see some users make regular threads about evil women or whatever) I guess nobody really felt concerned about those dozens threads every month full of angry people debating where and how trans people should go to the bathroom to avoid threatening their fragile heterosexuality. As much as I think the disappearance of the hate threads is a good thing, and sometimes defend rule 7, you guys merely swept the problem under the rug instead of fixing it. edited to appease Shakespeare's ghost. |
DeathkoOct 17, 2018 11:45 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| Suggestion for new rules: no supporting Donald Trump, no opposing immigration, no criticism of trans or lgbt folks, no criticism of feminism, no questioning corporate media, and NO incorrect opinions! Any infringement of these rules will result in a permanent ban, problems solved! That would be too honest though huh |
| @Ivich No dumb generalizations in general would be a good thing. And I'm not sure what there is to "criticize" about trans people, it's not exactly a political opinion. Enlighten me, I don't see what there is to criticize here? Unless you want to engage in pseudo-science to create a hierarchy between humans, in wich case the 19th century might be a more fitting place for you than MAL. Same about women tbh, it's not a political opinion, I'm not sure what there is to say. There are blogs to show your appreciation towards Elliot Rodgers. (wich some users here legit do) "but women are dumb and illogical and trans are mentally ill and if we were 50 years ago or if I had some courage I'd "criticize" blacks too" yeah yeah, zzzZZZZzzzz, always the same bs to cover hate speech |
DeathkoOct 17, 2018 11:58 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Clebardman said: @Ivich No dumb generalizations in general would be a good thing. And I'm not sure what there is to "criticize" about trans people, it's not exactly a political opinion. Enlighten me, I don't see what there is to criticize here? Unless you want to engage in pseudo-science to create a hierarchy between humans, in wich case the 19th century might be a more fitting place for you than MAL. Same about women tbh, it's not a political opinion, I'm not sure what there is to say. There are blogs to show your appreciation towards Elliot Rodgers. (wich some users here legit do) "but women are dumb and illogical and trans are mentally ill and if we were 50 years ago or if I had some courage I'd "criticize" blacks too" yeah yeah, zzzZZZZzzzz, always the same bs to cover hate speech SO TRUE, there is nothing to criticize, there is no argument, it's objective truth. That's why we need to ban anyone who questions it, it's not the f*cking 15th century anymore |
| As someone who was a member of this site way more than you, this site has always had a Far-Right/Nazi/"Anarchism is a Far-Right Ideology"/Third Positionist/NazBol/WN population. Just in the past they were low-key about it and when Trump got elected they suddenly showed themselves thinking that they could use the media calling literally everything in existence "EVUUUL NAZI" and people's hatred of SJWs as a means of launching themselves into positions of power. That's just something that will happen with the demographics and social class of the users that use this site, and it will happen with those who aren't White. There will be Far-Right Asians, Indians, and Blacks. But CE was always a recruitment board for fringe ideologies as far back as I can remember. An example, if you go back to when the mess in Ukraine started people were posting articles from Russian Neo-Fascists. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1107059 |
Klipoth1Oct 17, 2018 12:31 PM
| @Klipoth I remember the far-right or antisemitic users organizing themselves on their profiles, exchanging links towards threads they created, etc. At one point it was obvious than none of them were here for anime, and their insistence on accusing everybody of defending some "political agenda" was pretty hilarious considering they were the only ones losing their time to turn CE into a shitshow |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| ONTOPIC There literally is no use for news at all when you think of it besides propaganda. That's what Post-Modernism says. The most basic definition of post-modernism I ever encountered was "collapse of metanarratives". A metanarrative essentially being an all encompassing analysis of history. Think Marxist dialectics or the social contract. Idea that history and society has this rational, preordained, and easily verifiable course. What post-modernism proposes (broadly) is that we've essentially lost faith in those metanarratives. That they no longer appear to have any relevance to our lives. It doesn't take a genius to realize a kind of hopeless cynicism is the defining feature of the modern world. At the same time there's an environment of information overload. Truth and lies seem to blend together and flip upside down so much that it becomes almost impossible to tell which is which. Take for example the whole Trump-Russia thing. You have the media saying one thing, the president saying another, a million and one internet blogs saying both and adding some conspiracy theory in for good measure, constant allegations of Russian botnets directing internet discourse, etc etc. Result? Anybody who says they know what the actual fuck is going on is a liar and anyone who tries to use anything to say they are not a liar is a deceiver. That's what anyone who uses news is. Everyone has an agenda. Also, could someone clue me in why the Myanimelist Discord has a Specific Rule not to praise Nazi Germany or the USSR ? I would love to hear the story of that. Went into it and first thing I saw was that. |
Klipoth1Oct 17, 2018 1:41 PM
deg said: It's baically a rule not to praise authoritarian States but it's really specific. I wonder the USSR has anything to do with StaliNEETS as I call them. Internet Stalinists take over every Left-Wing oriented site (or sites like Mastodon that advertise themselves as such) and PURGE PURGE PURGE anyone who isn't a diehard hardcore Stalinist who jokes that Holodomor didn't happen, but it should've and hate Trotskyists so much they will actually use anti-Communist sources to talking about how Trotsky deserved it. Oh and once they have taken over a site they will ban literally anything bad said about Russia/China/N. Korea/Hezbollah/Iran/Syria/Venezuela as "CIA Imperialism" and anything about Israel that wouldn't result in a total destruction will get you banned.Klipoth said: ONTOPIC There literally is no use for news at all when you think of it besides propaganda. That's what Post-Modernism says. The most basic definition of post-modernism I ever encountered was "collapse of metanarratives". A metanarrative essentially being an all encompassing analysis of history. Think Marxist dialectics or the social contract. Idea that history and society has this rational, preordained, and easily verifiable course. What post-modernism proposes (broadly) is that we've essentially lost faith in those metanarratives. That they no longer appear to have any relevance to our lives. It doesn't take a genius to realize a kind of hopeless cynicism is the defining feature of the modern world. At the same time there's an environment of information overload. Truth and lies seem to blend together and flip upside down so much that it becomes almost impossible to tell which is which. Take for example the whole Trump-Russia thing. You have the media saying one thing, the president saying another, a million and one internet blogs saying both and adding some conspiracy theory in for good measure, constant allegations of Russian botnets directing internet discourse, etc etc. Result? Anybody who says they know what the actual fuck is going on is a liar and anyone who tries to use anything to say they are not a liar is a deceiver. That's what anyone who uses news is. Everyone has an agenda. Also, could someone clue me in why the Myanimelist Discord has a Specific Rule not to praise Nazi Germany or the USSR ? I would love to hear the story of that. Went into it and first thing I saw was that. even so news like politics affects the whole or part of the world and about discord i do not know but its hilarious to be so specific with rules like that although i get that nazi sympathizing should not be encourage in anyway especially when the world is headed towards oneness/unity brought by globalization so tribalism mentality is discourage |
Klipoth1Oct 17, 2018 4:40 PM
Ardanaz said: @traed: That's cool, but banning every single person who makes a troll thread without warning and just instantly permanent seems a tad much to me. Imagine the complaint threads we'd be getting then. Speaking of change to rule 7, I'm currently discussing adding more things to the list of 'significant topics' to make it more clear what can be posted about. If you have any suggestions, feel free to hit me up! I see a fair few of the regulars in support of it though. I won't deny the rule hits people who CAN discuss these topics properly, but unfortunately too many can't. We've had this discussion before like you said. I won't deny politics is everywhere, but it wasn't always like this on MAL. Since about late 2016 is when it really started to go downhill. CE was nothing but controversial bait topics littered with bait, insults, etc. CD had a lot of it too, but it wasn't as bad as CE. I don't know what changed, but it became like a nazi recruitment board or something. There were constant threads about anti immigration, how jews are terrible blablabla, what stupid thing Trump did today, some random alt-right person who got into trouble, etc. The replies always followed a similar pattern. Very quickly they'd all turn into just a giant shitshow. People baiting, insulting each other, spamming. We tried cleaning it normally for at least a year, but it just got so out of control where if you looked at the report queue, it was like 90% CE reports. It didn't even look like an anime forum anymore. Even after many bans and permabans for some people too, it just didn't help. There'd always be some new person who'd jump in to share his hot take on politics. I think I'm rambling at this point. I understand your frustrations. You're not a shitposter and you can have proper discussions. Unfortunately that trait isn't shared by a lot of others, so the problem had to be removed at the source. Hope you understand. I never said it should be permanent right away just a normal couple day ban at frist. Ban length shouldn't be solely be determined by number of violations but the frequency they appear in a given time after each ban. Like getting a ban three times in a 30 day period should get a month ban for example but this isn't meant to be my exact time recomendation just example. Then it moves up five bans in a 90 day period is a six month ban. The exact numbers have to be worked out better though. Also I had made a suggestion before in suggestions thread about banning users from certain activities on the site like forum posts instead of full account wide ban because one reason people have alts is just to access their list. I was told something like that was being worked on but I'm not sure it is. Eh I don't think adding significant topics to CE would be much better but it's something. Historical discoveries, anthropological theories maybe? Better discussion often takes place in CD about controversial topics from what I have seen and as I mentioned some can't be talked about at all in CE under current rules because lack of current event relvolving around. With more varied users here in CD while CE has people more into politics in a less rounded way and of those people few want to even challenge the worse users arguments and those users wind up taking over. At least with CD everything is confined to just one or two threads which usually is all that is needed for a topic but in CE you may see more current events all revolving around the same topic just different events so instead of a bad user posting one thread or an argument in one thread maybe two that same ussr would post similar arguments in every thread which destroys descussion because different users are posting in different threads or they constantly have to reference posts in other threads. CE is just not a good place for turning current events into debate topics and seems posts are much worse there than they are in CD. If anything it's better just to allow in CE what is a current event and not from a bullshit source and not presented in a way it's trying to push some ridiculous narrative but moderate it so it stays just that one event not a general debate in which it could be counted as off topic and the general topics can take place in CD threads. So CE for news and checking the facts of it while CD for actual discussion of greater implications. Maybe limit the number of threads about same topic in CD depending how closely related they are. That should be easier to moderate wouldn't you think? I mean sure the violating posts are more spread out in CD threads but in CE they are spread out across more threads to monitor. By stopping larger debate discussion in CE it would be confined to a single thread in CD where it can more easily be moderated and just have mods keep a closer eye on these threads so they can caitch things before it becomes a shit show so it won't turn that way and discussion can carry on in the thread normal. This is strickter than it was before and a more strict definition of off topic discussion for CE than anywhere I've seen before but I think it's better than what is in place now. How it is now for example I still have to repeat the same counter arguments to the same users arguments in CE on a regular basis because they keep repeating themselves in every thread even with current rules since they still can get away with that but with what I suggest you dont run into that level of repition and debates don't get so heavy because in CD it's not like CE where only two or three users are actually debating with eachother because when it's fewer people it's more personal and more effort has to be put in by each user because they alone are doing counter arguments which gets frustrating and tiring. In large CD threads every few posts a new user comments to same discussion so less personal and less tiring. As for users that don't want serious topics in CD they can always just hide the topic and not read it. Also another idea I didnt bring to suggestions before since just thought of it now maybe users that consistently make threads that lead to a shit show because how they worded their OP should have their threads reviewed by a mod before it posts on the forum with a message that comes up telling them so. |
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| This is like saying it's not the gun's fault, it's the parents'! We get it. People are in charge of everything. But rules are in place to reduce harmful incidents. Mods are not paid to police your shit, although given how much MAL makes, maybe they should be. However, the entire forum feature attracts only a very small proportion of traffic, so it would be a negative value proposition. Maybe they should make a paid feature where you can say whatever you want, so they can hire mods with your monthly fee? |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
nicethings said: oh my fucking god, why the fuck did this thread get revived? Ardinanz merged the recent thread with this one. |
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Invidioso said: Swagernator said: Look, take it as smaller evil ... if i were a mod i would ban people for almost anything. I would even ban some mods. Can a moderator ban another moderator? Lol NO, cuz moderators NEVER make mistakes. |
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traed said: Eh I don't think adding significant topics to CE would be much better but it's something. Historical discoveries, anthropological theories maybe? Better discussion often takes place in CD about controversial topics from what I have seen and as I mentioned some can't be talked about at all in CE under current rules because lack of current event relvolving around. With more varied users here in CD while CE has people more into politics in a less rounded way and of those people few want to even challenge the worse users arguments and those users wind up taking over. At least with CD everything is confined to just one or two threads which usually is all that is needed for a topic but in CE you may see more current events all revolving around the same topic just different events so instead of a bad user posting one thread or an argument in one thread maybe two that same ussr would post similar arguments in every thread which destroys descussion because different users are posting in different threads or they constantly have to reference posts in other threads. CE is just not a good place for turning current events into debate topics and seems posts are much worse there than they are in CD. If anything it's better just to allow in CE what is a current event and not from a bullshit source and not presented in a way it's trying to push some ridiculous narrative but moderate it so it stays just that one event not a general debate in which it could be counted as off topic and the general topics can take place in CD threads. So CE for news and checking the facts of it while CD for actual discussion of greater implications. Maybe limit the number of threads about same topic in CD depending how closely related they are. That should be easier to moderate wouldn't you think? I mean sure the violating posts are more spread out in CD threads but in CE they are spread out across more threads to monitor. By stopping larger debate discussion in CE it would be confined to a single thread in CD where it can more easily be moderated and just have mods keep a closer eye on these threads so they can caitch things before it becomes a shit show so it won't turn that way and discussion can carry on in the thread normal. This is strickter than it was before and a more strict definition of off topic discussion for CE than anywhere I've seen before but I think it's better than what is in place now. How it is now for example I still have to repeat the same counter arguments to the same users arguments in CE on a regular basis because they keep repeating themselves in every thread even with current rules since they still can get away with that but with what I suggest you dont run into that level of repition and debates don't get so heavy because in CD it's not like CE where only two or three users are actually debating with eachother because when it's fewer people it's more personal and more effort has to be put in by each user because they alone are doing counter arguments which gets frustrating and tiring. In large CD threads every few posts a new user comments to same discussion so less personal and less tiring. As for users that don't want serious topics in CD they can always just hide the topic and not read it. So basically what you're suggesting is have CE be purely about that one event and possibly allow discussing the wider topic in CD right? My problems with that are that people will always want to discuss the wider topic immediately in the CE thread. They read about how trump said something stupid again and they'll talk about the consequences or their opinion on the possible outcomes or whatever. If we'd have to remove every single post that isn't directly related to that one event, it'd take a lot more time. It also just seems weird to me to have that split up between CE and CD. It would also bring new problems. For example if trump would tweet: "I hate weebs". A post saying: "But weebs are awesome, I'm a weeb and I love it blablabla I don't get why people would hate weebs" that'd be off-topic because it's not directly related to that one trump tweet. I think it'd just confuse people a lot more. To me it seems more like moving the problem from CE to CD which doesn't solve the issue of people pushing agendas and cherry picking topics to spread hate. >If anything it's better just to allow in CE what is a current event and not from a bullshit source and not presented in a way it's trying to push some ridiculous narrative These things have to be defined somehow. What is a bullshit source? What is a ridiculous way to present? Etc. That's why we have the CE rules worded as they are to try and define it as well as possible. It basically is what you wrote, but worded differently (and a little harsher). Also another idea I didnt bring to suggestions before since just thought of it now maybe users that consistently make threads that lead to a shit show because how they worded their OP should have their threads reviewed by a mod before it posts on the forum with a message that comes up telling them . We've considered something like that before, but it wouldn't work. People would send us a message about a thread they wanna make or make a report to ask for permission. It would take some time before we see it as we're heavily understaffed and a lot of us are busy with other things atm. It'd take a lot of time and people would just get frustrated if things go slowly. There's also the thing where some events are important 1 day and a couple days later nobody cares anymore. Take for example that youtube being down thing. Nobody cares anymore, but yesterday it was a somewhat interesting thing. traed said: nicethings said: oh my fucking god, why the fuck did this thread get revived? Ardinanz merged the recent thread with this one. Ardinanz? XD I've had my name spelled in funny ways, but this is a first lol |
Ardanaz said: So basically what you're suggesting is have CE be purely about that one event and possibly allow discussing the wider topic in CD right? My problems with that are that people will always want to discuss the wider topic immediately in the CE thread. They read about how trump said something stupid again and they'll talk about the consequences or their opinion on the possible outcomes or whatever. If we'd have to remove every single post that isn't directly related to that one event, it'd take a lot more time. It also just seems weird to me to have that split up between CE and CD. It would also bring new problems. For example if trump would tweet: "I hate weebs". A post saying: "But weebs are awesome, I'm a weeb and I love it blablabla I don't get why people would hate weebs" that'd be off-topic because it's not directly related to that one trump tweet. I think it'd just confuse people a lot more. To me it seems more like moving the problem from CE to CD which doesn't solve the issue of people pushing agendas and cherry picking topics to spread hate. Basically more like how it was but making CE more restrictive and rules everywhere else that would take care of troublesome users. For example a rule against recruitment. Yes I get what you mean and already considered how they would still want to discuss things on broader context in CE and I'm not saying to make it so they can't say their opinion related to the event but rather can't use the event to make generalized statements to back their views if those views are hate ideology or bringing up similar old events that aren't even related unless it's a direct comparison which should be ok. That's kind of already in the current rules just not applied as well as it could be since it only applies to the OP. I know it's tricky to work out what i am saying into something usable. I've said it before Im better at broad ideas than the exact detail of application. I have a chaotic thought process so it's difficult for some topics. Probably doesn't help I haven't slept yet. Though maybe just the other thing I'm describing would be enough. You yourself said that it was always worse in CE than CD (and I suppose AD). I noticed some users that post in CE don't cross post in CD even before rule 7. It's like a result of these people being used to image boards. They tend to focus on the news board the most because it's most politicized. I don't think toning down CE would make all the worst aspects move to CD and even if it does don't I make a point it's easier to moderate one thread than like 5 of the same topic? Plus like I mentioned and previously implied there isn't a reason for rules against recruitment of hate based ideologies. It would just have to be explained what that looks like. >If anything it's better just to allow in CE what is a current event and not from a bullshit source and not presented in a way it's trying to push some ridiculous narrative These things have to be defined somehow. What is a bullshit source? What is a ridiculous way to present? Etc. That's why we have the CE rules worded as they are to try and define it as well as possible. It basically is what you wrote, but worded differently (and a little harsher). I already was fine with not allowing certain sources but I prefer black lists over white lists but as far as source goes I haven't seen it overused too much yet since at least some mods are checking the sources. It's the other aspects of rule 7 I see as causing problems. We've considered something like that before, but it wouldn't work. People would send us a message about a thread they wanna make or make a report to ask for permission. It would take some time before we see it as we're heavily understaffed and a lot of us are busy with other things atm. It'd take a lot of time and people would just get frustrated if things go slowly. There's also the thing where some events are important 1 day and a couple days later nobody cares anymore. Take for example that youtube being down thing. Nobody cares anymore, but yesterday it was a somewhat interesting thing. Yeah I suppose there isn't active enough mod activity but a wait of half an hour to two isn't too bad if that was eventually reachable. Well maybe it could use some sort of automatic system that searches for a certain frequency of certain volatile words that would trigger a review? Might be tricky to program but doable. Ardinanz? XD I've had my name spelled in funny ways, but this is a first lol It's how I read it so I wrote my guess. You're lucky I didn't go for Ardiznadz It's like spelling banana and not being sure how much nananananana to put in banananana. |
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