Bleach > Naruto (With Actual Reasons)

Halpher said:



Dude, You're straight up biased and this link proves it. This link the one you used to defend Eyepatch actually destroys his point even more. Look at issue #2143 and issue #2157. It also seems in a issue like #2151 they want to include all the manga compared to others which only shows like 1 or 2....
Did you blatantly ignore those other issues there?
Literally this is 2012-2013 when Bleach was supposedly on it's decline stated by Eyepatch Wolf so why is it that Bleach gets front covers?
Answer that question. The issue I put out came out around the time proving my point again .

Halpher said:


It is time for to easily destroy all of this with Chapters.
Cough
This "Guy with a Hat" founded the Research and Development of Squad 12, 100 years ago. He also had another Genius Mayuri Kurotscuchi who was in prison JOIN him. You know that guy who developed a serum that slowed down time that heightened senses making a sword that stabbed him in a second feel like it was happening for 100 Years prior.....That Mayuri



You're telling me that Kisuke the "Guy with the hat" knowing all of this was just "HELP THE MAIN CHARACTER GET BANKAI" when Kisuke didn't teach Ichigo Bankai....it was Yoruchi....
Kisuke's accomplishments

1. Created the Hogyaku
   
   
   
   
   
2. Created the Gigai
   
   
   
   
   
3. Built a place with a hot spring that heals wounds
   
   
   
   
   
4. Saved Ichigo's Mom and Found a way to counter Hollowfication
   
   
   
   
   

What more do you want? Oh....and guess what?
Why didn't he tell anyone...even though he did tell people about the things he did.....
He was banished from the Soul Society

Even so he was the reason why the Soul Reapers could even go into the World of the Living because he was the one who created Gigai....without Kisuke Bleach wouldn't have even happened because he was the reason why Ichigo's mom could be saved in the 1st place before her and Isshin birthed him.

To Solve your question this is how one can achieve Bankai and this is why Ichigo's process was faster....




As you can see...this is faster, but it's more dangerous and someone like Renji who achieved his Bankai THROUGH THIS...this is what happened

Ichigo throughout Bleach never fully understood his Bankai's power because he never had time with his Bankai....
Literally for fucks sake it's why his Zanpakto deemed him UNWORTHY!

Wanna know why though? Literally for the entire time...the HOLLOW was the Zanpakto and literally Ichigo's Quincy's power was holding it back and since Ichigo never understood or was aware of his own powers he couldn't control it....hmm sounds like Orihime and Sado?



because from what I remember.....Their powers are wayyyyy different from regular soul reapers....and they couldn't even use it properly until they trained to....but people expect Orihime to be OP and Sado to be OP....I laugh at that looking at the circumstances.
Orihime at the Fullbring actually improved her capabilities...as Ichigo lost his powers....I could easily show you a technique she did against Ginjo while Ichigo is trying to get his powers back training with Ginjo..







Looky here....and OH! You said ICHIGO DOESN'T LOSE HIS POWERS! OH THATS THE WORST YOU HAVE SAID HERE






I have nothing else to say....Everything you have said I have addressed I have addressed. Literally what the hell were you watching? Ichigo did lose his powers...thats why the Fullbring arc happened in the 1st place and you want to know how he regained his powers back




There is no way there is no way....No way.....I have literally gave you the manga panels to stop this bullshit

Weirdo47 said:
I'll just watch both and see for myself

ayeflied said:


About Ichigo actually losing his powers, well, i stopped waching it after that last getsuga bullcrap. But the series goes on right? so i just assumed that they came up with some stupid excuse for Ichigo to still be able to fight. If that's not the case, i apologize. Also, i did not read the manga, so if it presents more details on all the ridiculous shortcuts Ichigo takes to get the series going, i also apologize. However, what i think it has to be understood here is that giving easy way out after easy way out to resolve your conflicts and then trying to justify it with some pseudo-drawback tension is LAZY WRITING. Doesn't matter how many brilliant scientists you make up to give the feel that the bullshit you throw in your narrative is rational. Be it the 'weekend bankai package', Be it 'the control your hollow powers in ten minutes training', or the 'be more powerfull than goku by adding last to the name of your special attacks', after doing it for arc after arc, at some point it's gonna get artificial. Conflict -> Deus ex machina -> justification of deus ex machina. This is a bad narrative structure. Again, Lazy writing.

Halpher said:
'

Now I see. You're just a Bleach hater who even though given Manga content proving everything you just said wrong and it being easily explained, but it's still Deus Ex Machina....ok. You "Assumed" Ichigo had a reason to be able to fight. So you're willing to say shit you don't know and all this stuff about Bleach that isn't true? These "Scientist" as I shown you literally studied shit and Ichigo only got trained by Kisuke once to unlock his Shikai. You're just

ayeflied said:
?
I believe i apologized for my mistake with the lost of powers? anyway, if being a bleach hater means to hate lazy writing, we can end this discussion here. You got it right, I am a bleach hater.

SuperRed said:
Naruto at least has more than just 1 good arc, Bleach only had Soul Society that made it stand out.

DrGeroCreation said:
Arrancar arc (Arrancar arc is before Fake Karakura town arc), Turn Back the Pendulum (Past arc), Fullbring arc and the Blood war arc in the manga (except for the ending) were good. Bleach has better filler arcs like Zanpaktou arc, Invading army arc, Captain Amagi arc. The only good filler arc Naruto has is Chikara arc from Shippuden.

DrGeroCreation said:
Arrancar arc (Arrancar arc is before Fake Karakura town arc), Turn Back the Pendulum (Past arc), Fullbring arc and the Blood war arc in the manga (except for the ending) were good. Bleach has better filler arcs like Zanpaktou arc, Invading army arc, Captain Amagi arc. The only good filler arc Naruto has is Chikara arc from Shippuden.

Izaya77 said:
Buddy, do you still want attention?
If you still insist on this whole charade, I’ll make a few quick points:

Izaya77 said:
Story:
Naruto wants to become the Hokage so that he will be accepted and all of his actions are geared toward that. He chooses to chase after Sasuke because he knows what it is to be alone and wishing that someone would reach out.

Ichigo has no agency in the plot. Simple as that.

He is turned into a Shinigami to survive, his friend is kidnapped, his other friend is kidnapped, he has to give his powers up so he can be strong enough to defeat Aizen, he is given his powers back by people who made that their plan so they can steal his powers, he is brought into a war by someone literally coming through his bedroom window.

He never goes out of his way to make anything happen in the story. Someone always forces his hand. He just gets bounced around like a pinball and all he really ever says is that he wants to protect the people he cares about. That’s a cookie cutter protagonist trait.

Izaya77 said:
Character development:
Wait…bleach doesn’t care about personal growth, so let’s skip this.

No wait, Ichigo didn’t know what he was fighting for but after his chit chat with his father….nah, kidding.
The only character who was developed was Rukia, and maybe Renji.

Izaya77 said:
Fight scenes:
In Bleach, they rely on raw power (spiritual energy) and some unexpected abilities. It's basically Dragon Ball Z with Swords.

Fights in Naruto involve strategies (excluding the War)

I don't even want to touch on the power systems.


Bleach was done after the Soul Society arc, it's not me saying it, it's a fact.

Punpun3 said:
bleach manga might be good, but the anime is utter garbage. same goes with naruto. both are pretty good, the manga version that is. both anime are garbage

animefan0071 said:
I'm a bit biased (I'll be the first to admit it) since well if you see my profile Bleach is pretty much my all time fave anime

(I've been wanting to buy the whole manga series but I won't be able to for awhile hopefully someday)

I used to like Naruto when it was on YTV I guess about 11 years ago going onto 12.

But when I starting getting into anime (finding out alot of the shows I watched as a kid were actually called anime) Bleach was one of my start off's I tried Naruto but after Sasuke Vs Itachi I kind of lost interest.

No offense to Naruto or to anyone just my opinion and I like how well in depth you went.

Again no offense to anyone, in my opinion both Bleach and Naruto both had some bad plot holes (like most long running series manga and anime wise) and fillers are a given but I found the Bleach fillers more entertaining, an example even though it was one that most people say was the weakest the Bount Arc.

When you get into the Arrancar Arc when Shinji introduces himself telling Ichigo that he's a Vizard and telling him he is the same as they are and telling him something along the lines that he could tell that Ichigo couldn't control his inner hollow.

(which in the bount arc Ichigo looses control 2 more times if I remember correctly so a total of 3 or 4 times if you count the time when Ichigo first fought Renji when his spirit energy was going crazy and Ichigo started pretty much overpowering him)

and when Ulquiorra and Yammy first enter the world of the living looking for Ichigo both Orihime and Chad believe at first that they could be Bounts.

Also when Ichigo is fighting his inner hollow he goes up against some of his foes in I guess flashback fighting in the now or something. Where Ichigo fights some of his most worthiest foes like Byakuya, Kenpachi and (filler Bount) Kariya.

The last filler Arc the Reigai arc and the last few episodes leading up to the Fullbringer Arc even though Ichigo doesn't know how much time he had left as a soul reaper but still helping the Soul Society even though he knew he was running out of time.

While in the Soul Society Ichigo looses almost the rest of his powers Kisuke and Kon restrain him using Bakudo 99 Restrict on Ichigo since his hollowfication was going out of control and taking over.

Later on Kon gives Ichigo a mod soul with his spirit energy to fight Kageroza giving him enough to defeat him and going onto the last episode before the Fullbringer Arc.

Ichigo still trying to help by eliminating hollows around his home town ends up using to much of his power fighting a hollow almost getting killed, luckily for him Rukia was with him taking out the hollow and helping him get to safety.

Skipping over almost the rest of the episode Ichigo knew his time was up being able to be a soul reaper in front of his house talking to Rukia one last time saying there goodbye's seeing her fade. Transitioning us into the last Arc.

I just find that it's interesting how they did their best to make some of their fillers connect to the actual story (which I think they did pretty well).

I still find the other two Arcs the Shusuke Amagai Arc and Zanpakuto Rebellion (probably my fave or very close to filler arc) were great too, but didn't connect as well to the story since they were in between the Karakura town Arc (a few others are under it). But were still very enjoyable.

Again I only ever really watched Naruto until Sasuke Vs Itachi and I lost interest, sorry for such a long message and going quite a bit overboard I just thought I'd add some of my own thoughts.

(and sorry for the pic also probably one of my favourite Getsuga's)

SigmaticDoc said:
For someone who would ''respect someone's opinion if he thought that Naruto is better'', you're getting rather heated up. lol

Anyways, both shows are garbage but Naruto is better as it is more consistent.
Bleach really only has it's amazing art going for it, as well as the music. It has some of the best OPs in all of anime. But besides that, it's a rushed mess with tons of plot holes and ended with a few sub-plots not being concluded.

Naruto's writing at it's peak is actually rather decent, the Uchiha Clan backstory, besides that, it's a pretty average shounen with a few inconsistencies here and there as well.

Bottom line is. This topic is pointless as more or less, both shows are not good.

Halpher said:



Now I'm trying to think of a Bleach Plot Hole.....what Plot Hole happened in Bleach? I'm thinking....Um.....
Now when beginning this entire discussion I told people that I had alot to say, but I didn't want the OP being too long yet everyone ignores that.
I didn't even talk about what I hated about Bleach as everyone thinks I blindly worship the show as I'm just defending it from the bullshit everyone has put it through. I also want to show them how hypocritical and shallow some are by pointing out that Naruto wasn't even written better.

Naruto:
I wanted to talk about how the Leaf Village's Ninja Academy is one of the worst systems I had ever seen and how Kakashi is a fucking idiot and how the Sasuke Retrieval for some reason all the Jonin conveniently left the village.....for what? As it's only been a couple of hours since Sasuke Left and Kakashi was still there and no one saw the Sound 4?! Where was this "Barrier" we saw in the Pain Invasion arc?
I hate how every ninja in the show only throws Shuriken and they are scrubs....
I thought the Akatsuki shouldn't have been bigger than they were for so many reasons as it's just that every nation except the Leaf were too stupid to actually do something and the Leaf was stupid by how they went their way about it.

But in Bleach.....oh man...I fucking hate how in Bleach the way they try to make things look deep or justify poor communication. Like when Ichigo failed his test and was rejected by his Asachi this is what happened.





I get annoyed by stuff like this in Bleach as literally I feel the man could easily tell Ichigo that he may of had problems with his Zanpakto or something, but this.....ugh.
I also felt that Chad's fights in Bleach were absolutely boring as hell and the main-cast weren't all that interesting overall. Thats just my opinion, but I'm not counting Ichigo there as Ichigo is actually a respectable character. I swear people don't know that something like this is characterization.


Ichigo's maturity in Bleach is never discussed and I mean it's never brought up how this guy reacts to things around him better than Naruto has ever have. He didn't complain when he lost his powers and he knew what he did and he ACCPETED it as all he cared about was that Kakura Town and his friends were alright.
I really thought Ichigo and how he respected his opponents was something that I liked about him and how he always understood his opponents had beliefs and reasons for why they are doing what they're doing.
Like when he was fighting Gin he was talking how he could understand his opponents, but he couldn't understand Gin at the Fake Kakura Town part of the Arrancar arc.


I want to say that the District before you get to the Seritei were extremely boring to me. Anyone that praises the Soul Society Arc do they ever mention these parts?
Does anyone remember Jidanbou?
Anyone remember Ganju's henchmen?


I'm talking Anime as I didn't read the manga counterpart, but man was it putting me to sleep.
The anime adaption of this wasn't really fun as I remember it being kinda slow.

Also It's funny how in these parts Ichigo is Ganju's cousin, but it wasn't stated as it's implied because....


And to come at @ayeflied once again.
They foreshadowed Kisuke's backstory in Chapter 69 over 100 Chapters and a long time before we actually get to why he got banished and what happened.




It was all foreshadowed all of it was foreshadowed just like Aizen foreshadowed Ichigo's birth as it brought questions and when you get to it...IT ALL COMES TOGETHER!
If Bleach ended at Aizen it wouldn't have answered so many questions.
Many who claim to read and watch and praise the Soul Society Arc as a Masterpiece (Honestly I don't think any Bleach arc was a masterpiece to me as thats just me)
They've seemingly ignored so many details in this arc making me wonder if they actually know what the hell they're saying.

Naruto's fights are not really that great. Honestly they consisted of throwing Shuriken and doing the 1 move every from their clan knew. Go back and watch Naruto the anime and watch the Zaubza arc and you will see how fucking slow it was and anime back then were slow, but I honestly think we're so blinded by nostalgia that everything looks like gold when it wasn't even close. Naruto vs Neji put me to sleep...the reason I recommend people to read the manga is because the manga is just quicker and a full representation of the story. The Anime fooled people to what was canon and what was filler. People think Shikamaru cried when Asuma died......THAT WAS ANIME-ONLY!
People think Pain vs Naruto was that long....as the anime added filler content and that filler content is Pierrot's infamous "MY PAIN IS GREATER THAN YOURS!"
I see people praise Kishimoto who was a shitty writer based on their own standards.

Now I'm not saying people can't enjoy Naruto or that people can't say that Naruto > Bleach because it's really just what series you yourself found better however so many people got their head up their asses in this thread coming at me for defending Bleach and repeatedly saying "Stop acting like it's a masterpiece" when all I do was compare it and say it's better than Naruto and I'm arguing the reasons why I think that way or just being arrogant repeating the same ol bullshit saying Bleach is Shitty therefore Fact and being full of themselves.
I watched both series hence why I can bring to you both sides of the coin and all the manga panels and so much about what both really offered. I want to open this topic back up because of how wrongly judged Bleach has been. Everyone repeats the same ol bullshit and I'm here to argue against all of that with what I've been showing everyone as people compare it to Naruto and act like Naruto was just so amazing. I got issues with both Bleach and Naruto and those talking about.

If someone liked Naruto more than Bleach or Bleach more than Naruto it;s fine. Some people may not care about what I brought up to Naruto as some things they may not prioritize like others, but the people that shit on Bleach state things like "Writing" and Plot-Holes and Characters and "Complexity" that I find it really strange that these same people who are saying this are praising Naruto which is one of the most naive, immature, and shallow shows.
I grew up with Naruto and I loved it as a kid, but your tastes changes as you as a person change and thats ok as looking back shows how far you've come.
I never watched Bleach ever as a kid. I thought it was uninteresting and I never gave it a chance, but I finally gave it a chance after everyone was just shitting on it and I was open. I thought "Maybe it is shit and maybe they have a point", but after finishing the Fullbring Arc in the anime and currently reading the TYBW I question what the fuck was everyone talking about?
I rewatched Naruto (Inadvertently) and my god was it fucking slow and boring.
It took Naruto and Neji to fight after over 13 minutes of JUST DOING NOTHING!
I SWEAR TO YOU NOT I AM NOT LYING!

Naruto did not have this "Great Strategy" Naruto's fights aren't amazing and i can easily tell you all why. Now people are going to misunderstand when I say "I respect peoples opinions" while not understanding that people don't respect mines and never actually address whatever I bring up or give my points a chance. It's unfair to me.
People think

Paul said:


Nothing I say would persuade you as you clearly won't give anything you dislike a chance. You're mentality is the kind to forever hate something probably for the most simplistic reason. I already posted examples before and to my expectations, see you do exactly what I expect you would, nitpicking with a huge wall of text trying to differentiate the two when everything you batter on about applied to both.

Izaya77 said:
@Halpher
Don’t get cocky.

"Also you're really saying that it's a flaw that the plot doesn't revolve around the main-character?"
In a show like Bleach, where Ichigo is the MC. Yes, it’s a flaw.

"let me believe in him just for the sake of the plot which is "ACKNOWLEDGE NARUTO"!"
Oh, this naïve child has the power of kyuubi…of course they believe in him.

"Naruto is a naive child who doesn't know what the hell he wants to do he is reckless and inexperienced"
Isn’t Ichigo the same? He is.

"The moment Ichigo saved this Soul Reaper was the moment he was always going to be involved and also literally Rukia or the Research Development Team can instantly contact him with Kisuke or someone else there. What are you talking about?"
Yes, Ichigo has no agency in the plot. Can you read?

"Ichigo continued to live on and didn't start a war over it or some stupid overreactionary BS."
Ichigo had his dad, sisters, and friends. Naruto had no one, and he was treated wrong.

"Bleach doesn't care about personal growth, lets skip this". Watch what you say to me because I will blow it right back at your face just like the others in here.
Like I said, Rukia was the only developed character.

"This was a psychological fight in which Tsukishima trolled Ichigo harder than Aizen trolled the Soul Society..."
The whole “Aizen trolled Soul Society” is bad writing.

"not all fights in Bleach are dependent on Brute Strength."
All the fights in Bleach are dependent on RAW POWER.

"Ichigo for the first time in the series wanted to kill someone like literally wanted to kill him."
Did he? No, he didn’t.

"Ichigo was so desperate in the arc due to..." blah blah blah
As you said it was a war between Aizen and Soul Society. You’re just backing up my points.

"If you are going to be a condescending jackass acting like whatever you say is fact then just leave if you aren't going to back what you say up Mr. IT'S A FACT!"
Bleach sales went down. It’s a fact. Feel free to search the sales on google if you want proof.

koolkai123 said:

Duel me for it fam. We're going to the time of 4KIDS

kronopy said:
Never wanted to bother with such a debate as I don't really see to much value in it, but the ammount of bullshit is simply too much to ignore it. Is obvious for me that all you are is some salty fan of Bleach who can't accept Bleach's failure and try to shit on Naruto, its rival (from another era), using biased oppinions, salt and bullshit.

Let's see... Comparations:

Story:

Naruto: Is a story with a strong anti-war message. It stars as the adventures of a young child soldier with a high burden on its shoulders, and ends up a pro-peace conculssion, and a story about how the war change and affects peoples, hurt innocent and give birth to monsters.

Bleach: on the other hand is a SF-ization of the old Samurai movies. It doesn't really have any special meaning, just the adventures of a young samurai beating his foes. It follows a very linear system of meeting a powerfull enemy, getting your ass beat off, getting training and power upgrade, beating the enemy, sad/emotional background/flashback for the enemy meant to simpatize with him/her, repeat the cycle. This system is the main reason why Bleach lost popularity and in the end got axed.

Main Characters:

Naruto: Naruto starts as a dumb child, who is totally incompetent as a ninja, but doesn't know how to give up. But as the time pass, he grows up. He is changed by the peoples he meet (both friends but also enemies), those interactions make him grow up, develop ideas and ideals. Until he meets Zabuza and Haku for example, he belived that killing and hating his enemies was the right thing to do because that was what he was educated to belive, but he started to doubt that idea after that meeting, and he started to see the world trough his own eyes. Then later, he does the same with Gaara. Unlike the peoples who hated him because they are afraid of him, Naruto empatize with him, and tries to understand him, making Gaara the man he later becomes, but he is also changed by Gaara as Gaara makes him understand what he truly has, and how his life could had been much worse than it was.
Empathy, is the greatest quality of Naruto. You said that Ichigo respects his enemies... but that doesn't stop him from killing them. The respect that Ichigo has is nothing else than Bushido - samurai code. Respect of the warrior for the warrior. Naruto on the other hand has no such thing... He has empathy, which makes him try to understand his enemies, to try to see their hearts and their values as humans... he would rather try to save them than trying to kill them. He shows that with Haku, after Haku aparently killed Sasuke, he lost his control but recovered, and after hearing his story, he didn't hate Haku, he didn't want to kill him (but accepted to do it as Haku's own request), and then cried for him when he died, and later regreted Zabuza's death too... Ichigo would have killed both Haku and Zabuza. After Garaa hurt Sakura, the one he loved, he once again showed empathy and saved Gaara - Ichigo would have killed Gaara. Before that, he showed the same empathy for Neji, who hurt Hinata and treated her like trash, but instead of destroying Neji, he saved him - what would Ichigo have done. Much later, when Pain destroied his village and killed everyone he loved, Naruto once again showed empathy, and chosed to understand and talk with Pain instead of simply killing him like Ichigo would have done.
Is this empathy what makes him run after Sasuke... when everyone treated Sasuke as an enemy after he gone rogue, Naruto chosed to try ad save him, because he understood how lonely Sasuke truly was and how much he was suffering... When eveyone saw the tailed beasts as monsters he was the first to see them different, and even showed empathy to the one in him, Kyuuby who supposedly was the incarnation of hate and rage. He even showed empathy to Obito who was his greatest enemy.
And here is the catch, he never got wrong. Gaara ended up becoming a great person, despise beeing seen as a monster by everyone excepting Naruto in the past. Neji becomes one of his closest friends. Pain/Nagato changed his ways, and in the last war he even helped putting an end to it. He made Kyuuby his friend and changed the way peoples saw the tailed beasts. He made Obito rebel against Madara and help in end the war he started. And HE SAVED SASUKE.
The only times Naruto truly fought to kill was when he understood that the ones before him where truly evil.

Ichigo: Ichigo is a broken character. Unlike Naruto who gets broken in the last quarter of the story as he gets ridiculously powerfull, Ichigo is broken from the start. He gets some magical power from Rukia and instantly gets powerfull enought to confront and defeat with his samurai power, samurai that had hundreds or even thousands of years of actual battle experience. Unlike Naruto who in beggining he confronts those of his level and he depends on others to defeat those who are above that level, Ichigo jumps fast from few Hollows to defeating Captains. In short time those Hollow end up being like flies, wipped in high numbers by a single attack, while other experienced Shinigami still die in missions against them. As a result Ichigo is boken. He never truly has to grow or he grows, he just get new powers and gets more badass than mature or wise.
Is also ridiculous how you complain about how Naruto chase Sasuke, when the first serious arc of Bleach is Ichigo chasing Rukia, and the second half of the story is Ichigo chasing Orihime. He barely knows Rukia and has no deep relationship with her, yet he goes in a basically suicide mission to save her.
What is worse about Ichigo is that despise not being trained as a murder machine like Naruto and other ninja do, Ichigo is pretty fine from the start with killing others and confronting death (while at least Naruto froze terified in his first actual battle). Him not being like 16yo is the problem. Naruto starts as a 12yo brat, and he acts like one, so does Sakura and the rest, Sasuke being the exception because he was the genius. As he grows up, he stay a 16-17yo boy... he can't give Pain an answer, because he is still basically a child, he didn't had Nagato's experiences and he can't have the wisdom to solve the issues older peoples failed to solve. Ichigo on the other had basically never shows the fact that he is 16yo. He is portraied as a competent and experienced warrior, and never truly shows immaturity and lack of experience. But despise his mature facade, he never truly solves anything. His method for everthing is: fight and destroy. If you had put Ichigo against Pain, he would have done the same - he would had fight to destroy Pain. He would had kill Pain, whithout understanding him, and as a result Konoha would have remained dead. He would have also killed Gaara.
Despise showing respect, Ichigo never showed empathy. His enemy's allways ended in a pool of blood, dead or incapacitated.

Other characters:

Bleach: Caracters in Bleach are decent. Who doesn't love Kempachi for example... it has a bunch of good characters, but nothing truly exceptional. And there are similar characters between Bleach and Naruto. Like Urahara and Kakashi, both mentors with uninterested personalities, but quite badass. Orihime and Hinata, both beta girls, inlove with the MC who seem interested in the other female character, who is stronger as character, but friendzone the MC for other male character - yet at time they are competent and finally their strugle awards them the MC's heart out of blue.
The villains are interesting, but Aizen is simply too dominant on the scene, so Bleach doesn't have the diverstity of interesting villains Naruto has.

Naruto: Naruto has both good and bad characters just like Bleach, but it simply has deeper stories for them. Each character has a story, and more varied. Where Bleach has mostly dramatic back stories, Naruto's conflict are varied, they can start from deep political situations to small things like childhood crushes. It simply does a better job at building and developing those characters. Where Bleach has Mayuri who is the mad scientist with dirty hands, Naruto has Orochimaru. Orochimaru starts as a very dominant character. He is legit scary and continues to give this aura of invincibility even after the aparition of characters like Itachi and Pain who diminish his importance. No matter what he keeps being powerfull underdog, and he has a backstory and ideals.
Where Bleach has Yamamoto, Naruto has 3rd Hokage and Danzo. This is why I don't understand why are you so angry about the 3rd and Danzo, when Yamamoto was no different... he had the love for Soul Society that the 3rd had for Konoha, and is not afraid to get his hands dirty just like Danzo did.
The rest of the villains in Naruto are better too... There are reasons... real reasons, other than thirst for power and blood behind their actions... a great deal of them are ant iheroes, who fight for good reasons using different means from heroes.



''Naruto didn't do anything to become Hokage as for the 2nd Part of Naruto he was focused chasing Sasuke. Literally before Pain...Naruto was OBSESSED with Sasuke. Naruto has no experience in politics or the Ninja World yet he thinks he could create peace without even encouraging a discussion with the nations to solve issues. ''

- Naruto was a child. Like you said, he had no experience in politics so he had no means to understand what Sasuke's implication in Hidden Cloud could lead to. He is also too young to be a Hokage, but there is nothing he has to do to become one, other than becoming the strongest ninja in the village and getting aknowleged by everyone. But by trying to save Sasuke, he acts like a Hokage. Unlike the others who label Sasuke as an enemy for leaving the village, Naruto empatize with Sasuke and understand him. He knows that deep down Sasuke is not evil, but he is blinded by hate and suffering. He see himself in him. What he could have become if he left himself blinded by hate, and understand that he must save Sasuke not from Orochimaru, but from himself.

'' Naruto has no experience in politics or the Ninja World yet he thinks he could create peace without even encouraging a discussion with the nations to solve issues.''

- this is really dumb. He is 12-16yo. How can he make nations discuss when he is a mere child with no power? And how can him being an unexperienced child stop him from having dreams and plans for the future?

'' Sasuke in Part 1 literally did everything and was hindered because of these 2. Look at the forest of death and Sakura got Naruto kidnapped because she didn't want Naruto peeing on a tree and told him to go in the fucking forest.''

- they where like 12yo. And their team was build using the weakest plus the strongest along with Sakura for balance. Is an infunctional team, with great potential. It was belived that all three could develop their full potential in that form. Did it work? Well, Sakura ended up as the greatest Kunoichi and medic in Konoha, and probably the ninja world, while Naruto and Sasuke got god level strong.


'' Naruto told Nagato IN THE WAR that he had NO ANSWER when asked if he had a plan! Think about it from Pain's point of view because Pain stopped doing what he did because he believed in Naruto and died for his ideals....NARUTO DIDN'T DO SHIT! He doesn't understand that when a Ninja is attacking other ninja and is affiliated with a dangerous organization THAT PUTTING AN ORDER TO KILL HIM OR ARREST HIM IS REASONABLE!''

-Wrong, Naruto knows the resonable solution, but refuse to accept that there is a single solution. He tries to find an alternative. He visualize a potentail future where peoples can understand each other. While is not a solution to a problem, it is an alterntative to Pain's conclussion: ''Peoples can't understand each other.'' Nagato didn't die for Naruto's ideals, he died for his own old ideals. What Naruto did, was to remind Nagato that the one behind the ideals Jiraya passed to him, was none other than himself. It was Nagato (Pain) the one who visualized the future where peoples can understand and dream about world peace, and that dream of Nagato influenced Jiraya in dreaming and fighting for such future. Jiraya later influenced Naruto, as a result the one behind Naruto's own dreams and ideals was Pain himself. When he understood that, Pain was reminded about what he was truly fighting for in the begginig and what he becomed in the end, so he gave his life to repair little of the damage he did, and left his dream in Naruto's hands, who as the one who defeated him without killing him was much worthy of it.


''He was a Sasuke hater and after barley talking to Sasuke after the Chunnin Exams in which most of their interactions were in the beginning for some reason they want me to buy into that these 2 are the closet of friends even though they ain't do shit comparable to Gon and Killua, Shit not comparable to Fuu, Mugen and Jin in Samurai Champloo. Their friendship isn't that deep and it never was.''

- I am not sure if you actually finished the anime at this point. It was explained even from the first part that their relationship was deeper than it seemed. While they didn't share an open friendship, they shared a mutual understanding of each other since early childhood. And as incarntation of Idra and Asura the where connected by destiny.

''Sasuke didn't even care about Naruto as he litreally was focused on his own thing and Naruto ignored Sasuke's issue and literally if the Leaf Village was competent Sasuke wouldn't have gone rogue.''

- Sasuke risked his life at least twice in the first part to save Naruto, and refused to kill him when he left, despise the fact that by killing him he would had got MS, which would had been the power he needed to kill Itachi, so is obvious from this that he actually cared for Naruto. And is shown in time over and over again that he saw him as his only and most important friend.
When it come to Naruto, is not that he ignored Sasuke's issues, he simply didn't knew. He knew about his family being killed, but not about Itachi, as Konoha keept lots of secrets from childrens. But even so, Naruto understood Sasukes pain, that why he was the only one other than Sakura and Kakashi who didn't give up on him.

''Saurtobi Hiruzen allowed for Danzo to do so much fuckery it's not even funny. Infact Sarutobi allowed Orochimaru to successfully infiltrate the village and attack it. ''

- And Yamamoto allowed Ichigo to infiltrate Ichigo in SS, and then Aizen to go evil and escape, and then Yahwech to invade.... no they didn't. It was beyond their control to do something about it.

''Sarutobi was the reason that Neji's father died.....Another ninja from the Cloud village attacked the Hyugas and they killed him and the Cloud got mad and wanted the Leaf to send a ninja to them so they can kill them...obviously you tell the Cloud to go f-themselves?''

- and continue a war that would kill thousands and thousands of peoples. Cloud ninjas where there for a peace treaty that would had ended the long bloody war between the two nations. If the negociations failed, the war would had continued, and lots of peoples would had died. This was avoided with a single sacrifice - Neji's father.

''The Uchiha Massacre didn't have to happen if only the 3rd Hokage didn't allow Danzo to have power. Itachi and Shisui one of them wanted to put them under a Genjustu for a while.''

- 3rd Hokage was unaware at that time of Danzo's plans. He left Danzo get power because he knew Danzo wouldn't hurt Leaf. He was very competent and he was doing everything to protect it. Uchiha where planning a coup. It would had lead to civil war, and could had lead to a much greater war with oter nations, who would have used the moment to invade. Shisui plan was only temporaly, and Itachi knew that... even Shisui did. Even with genjutsu it was only a matter of time until Uchiha rebeled. That why Itachi accepted.

''The 5th Hokage Tsunade for some reason
Is a Narutard. She sends NARUTO UZUMAKI TO THE AKATSUKI! because "NARUTO CAN'T LOSE" and when the village elders try to compromise with Tsunade to keep Naruto in the village instead of Tsunade compromising with them to have Naruto get training she tells them to have Naruto be sent on Missions and THESE MISSIONS ARE HIM GOING TO THE FUCKING AKATSUKI that he will be safer traveling in 4-Man Squads where the Akatsuki can't find him, but WHY SAY THAT WHEN NARUTO'S MISSIONS HAVE ALWAYS INVOLVED THE AKATSUKI YOU FUCKING IDIOT! It would be better to have in the village for so many reasons.''

Tsunade understand that Naruto must get stronger. The other villages failed to protect their Jinchuriki, even Gaara the Kazekage was defeated and stolen from the village. Each Akatsuki member is Kage level, and if they want Naruto they can take him from the village. That why, the best solution to protect Naruto is to have him get stronger. Also Naruto is an important asset in defeating the Akatsuki. So Tsunade chose to risks by having Naruto fight Akatsuki members, and get stronger and more experienced by confronting enemies of their level. Tha is better than shielding Naruto, and waiting for Akatsuki to attack. She may also understood that there s some sort of order in which they stole the Jinchuriki.

''If you bring up Itachi and Pain then do you understand how incompetent the Leaf is? Literally Ninjas can come in undetected or detected and the Leaf is incompetent to do anything.''

- Itachi was an AMBU member, a former Leaf ninja and the person who eradicaded his own clan - the strongest ninja clan in Leaf Village.
Pain is the ninja who wiped out Leaf by himself. At the moment he appeared he was the strongest Ninja we saw and he seemed like a God... invincible. If Naruto didn't knew Sage Mode he wouldn't had been able to defeat him.
So they wheren't any Ninja, the where two of the strongest ninja that ever lived.

''Naruto only learned Sage Mode....he still had 2 Justu....''

- Pain didn't had that many either... is more about quality than quantity. Naruto wasn't that good at learning Ninjutsu so the best solution was to learn him something strong, and have him learn how to use it eficently. But he had more than 2.

''I swear the Leaf is weak, but the SAND IS EVEN WORSE!
Tsunade is a stupid bitch who sends Genin to fight Dangerous Ninja to rescue Sasuke.
The Leaf Village have weak ass ninjas to where Genin are more competent than the Jonin.''

In the first part, the only time when Gennin are sent in a mission above them is the Zabuza Arc, and that by mistake, because the one who requested it lied. They are sent then after Sasuke, but only because the are short heanded do to recent invassion of Orochimaru. Most of the other Ninja where awa in missions (including Kakashi), others where incapacitated, and others whre needed to protect the village if other attack happened. Tsunade wanted to recover Sasuke, and sending Genning was better than sending AMBU who would had killed Sasuke on spot.
In the second part the only Gennin is Naruto, and that only because Naruto was away from the villae for two years.... is very probable that Naruto becomed Hokage as a gennin too.

LoneWolf said:
I actually like Bleach better than Naruto too, but its not for any esoteric BS, I just think the art style is cooler and the MC isn't annoying as fuck.

kronopy said:

'' Sasuke in Part 1 literally did everything and was hindered because of these 2. Look at the forest of death and Sakura got Naruto kidnapped because she didn't want Naruto peeing on a tree and told him to go in the fucking forest.''

- they where like 12yo. And their team was build using the weakest plus the strongest along with Sakura for balance. Is an infunctional team, with great potential. It was belived that all three could develop their full potential in that form. Did it work? Well, Sakura ended up as the greatest Kunoichi and medic in Konoha, and probably the ninja world, while Naruto and Sasuke got god level strong.

kronopy said:
Is also ridiculous how you complain about how Naruto chase Sasuke, when the first serious arc of Bleach is Ichigo chasing Rukia, and the second half of the story is Ichigo chasing Orihime. He barely knows Rukia and has no deep relationship with her, yet he goes in a basically suicide mission to save her.

kronopy said:
As he grows up, he stay a 16-17yo boy... he can't give Pain an answer, because he is still basically a child, he didn't had Nagato's experiences and he can't have the wisdom to solve the issues older peoples failed to solve. Ichigo on the other had basically never shows the fact that he is 16yo. He is portraied as a competent and experienced warrior, and never truly shows immaturity and lack of experience. But despise his mature facade, he never truly solves anything.

kronopy said:
''Saurtobi Hiruzen allowed for Danzo to do so much fuckery it's not even funny. Infact Sarutobi allowed Orochimaru to successfully infiltrate the village and attack it. ''

- And Yamamoto allowed Ichigo to infiltrate Ichigo in SS, and then Aizen to go evil and escape, and then Yahwech to invade.... no they didn't. It was beyond their control to do something about it.

kronopy said:
'Naruto: Naruto has both good and bad characters just like Bleach, but it simply has deeper stories for them. Each character has a story, and more varied. Where Bleach has mostly dramatic back stories, Naruto's conflict are varied,

Krystopher said:
Naruto is way better Bleach barely has a coherent setting

Halpher said:


Bleach barley has a coherent setting? What are you talking about?

Krystopher said:

I tried watching it and it made no sense, why is the afterlife Japanese themed if it takes place in modern times where there should be all sorts of people and cultures in the afterlife and also they bump into parakeet boy like 10 minutes into exploring the afterlife like how small is that shit even?

Mist said:
No way someone is defending Orihime. My most hated character ever in anything.

Btw I think the first arc in bleach was better than Naruto ever did but after that, i found the series so boring.

Halpher said:


Why did you find it boring after the 1st arc? Also the 1st arc is before Soul Society as maybe you’re mistaking and what about the 1st arc did better than whatever Naruto ever did?

naka_kun11 said:
First off, I like bleach better than Naruto. The filler arcs in Bleach are one of the major reasons that people don't like bleach. The main arc is pretty interesting, and these kind of break away from the intensity and overall flow of the arc. Overall, I find bleach more funnier (the Soul Society arc is the best).

Also, I agree how after every major opponent Ichigo defeats, the anime tries to explore the other person's perspective, which adds to the depth of the characters.

And nobody can beat Urahara's cheapskate, laid-back and all-knowing mentor (not even Kakashi, even though he's pretty cool).

Halpher said:


Dude, I’ve been saying this. The filler destroyed the pacing and pissed people off when Bleach was on-going. I understand how they feel.
Ichigo vs Grimjow ends then next week you get something completely unrelated.
I think the studio should’ve of wait before releasing new episodes because it just took you out of the story and destroys the pace and tension.
Then Bleach has a recap episode after all that filler because they had so much filler between that time (It is fucking ridiculous) that it even wasted more time.

naka_kun11 said:



On point, dude. And all of them were kind of patchy. The Bount arc was a nosedive after that epic Soul Society arc. Just cause the show was doing well, the studio added them, knowing that all the fans would still watch. And of course it can't interfere with the main arc, so they made up this half-assed stuff.

naka_kun11 said:



On point, dude. And all of them were kind of patchy. The Bount arc was a nosedive after that epic Soul Society arc. Just cause the show was doing well, the studio added them, knowing that all the fans would still watch. And of course it can't interfere with the main arc, so they made up this half-assed stuff.

naka_kun11 said:



On point, dude. And all of them were kind of patchy. The Bount arc was a nosedive after that epic Soul Society arc. Just cause the show was doing well, the studio added them, knowing that all the fans would still watch. And of course it can't interfere with the main arc, so they made up this half-assed stuff.

naka_kun11 said:



On point, dude. And all of them were kind of patchy. The Bount arc was a nosedive after that epic Soul Society arc. Just cause the show was doing well, the studio added them, knowing that all the fans would still watch. And of course it can't interfere with the main arc, so they made up this half-assed stuff.