Do you want Feminism in your Anime?
Yes, politics infesting entertainment is a good thing
18.8%
171
No, the Author's vision should be respected
81.2%
740
911 votes
zodd0 said: _LapisLazuli said: In my country, men are taught to respect women since childhood. And it's not called "feminism", it's called "being a human". And what country is that? Neverland? Sorry, but even the countries that respect women the most still have societies built upon misogyny. You're just putting your head in the sand now. For some reason every anti-feminist tells themselves that their country respects women, no matter what country that is... _LapisLazuli said: Maybe it's cultural difference but I do get your point. Not, it's not. You failed to answer my question. Maybe I live in a white side of the society Listen here, "I do get your point." is my answer. I will admit that it's true that men are stupid creatures, teaching women not to dress slutty is easier than teaching men to not be an asshole. |
| I feel like some people are trying to defend feminism from the over-exaggerations and misunderstandings that others have about it. And even though this is fine (on the surface) I don't believe it's all that constructive. Unfortunately, most modern day Feminists are the radical types, the one giving FALSE information: >The Wage Gap >Rape Culture >Male Privilege ^All of this has done serious harm in gender relations. And the few good feminists talking about legitimate issues are completely drowned out by the crazies. |
_LapisLazuli said: Maybe I live in a white side of the society Listen here, "I do get your point." is my answer. I will admit that it's true that men are stupid creatures, teaching women not to dress slutty is easier than teaching men to not be an asshole. White side? lol what? You wanna hide behind your skin color and pretend white men respect women? Those who voted for a "grab them by the pussy"-TV-star for President? Yeah, it's easier for men to say women are the problem, sure. But you don't seem to get my point, no. Women are taught to be responsible for mens behaviour. Feminism teaches men that they are responsible for their own behaviour. It's very simple... |
Zoldra0Sep 18, 2017 7:27 AM
| @_LapisLazuli oh, sorry I was aggressive. I think the problem here is "when westerners bring the word up while living in such a developed countries that have no problem with gender discrimination." We still have gender/race/whatever discriminations. Not to such an extent than many countries, and most of the time not endorsed by the government, but we do. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| I love the "wage gap", it's like saying "I don't believe capitalism exists" |
Erebus25Sep 18, 2017 9:07 AM
15poundfish said: Feminism teaches the exact opposite with yes means yes, drunk sex is rape and campaigning for other benefits like free abortion and tampons. Feminism is basically takes conservatism to the extreme but tries to make women bad at domestic duties like homemaking and tells women they are useless without the government(men) to save them. Another person who can't argue against anything I've said so you just quote me with random claims about feminism to try to make feminism look bad. |
zodd0 said: _LapisLazuli said: In my country, men are taught to respect women since childhood. And it's not called "feminism", it's called "being a human". And what country is that? Neverland? Sorry, but even the countries that respect women the most still have societies built upon misogyny. You're just putting your head in the sand now. For some reason every anti-feminist tells themselves that their country respects women, no matter what country that is... _LapisLazuli said: Maybe it's cultural difference but I do get your point. Not, it's not. You failed to answer my question. Stop being ridiculous. In every developed country, people are told "Equality this, equality that". That's the norm now. So people are told to respect women. Also, women are told to dress appropriately for their sake, it's no different than locking one's door when they leave their house, it's common sense. Clebardman said: @_LapisLazuli oh, sorry I was aggressive. I think the problem here is "when westerners bring the word up while living in such a developed countries that have no problem with gender discrimination." We still have gender/race/whatever discriminations. Not to such an extent than many countries, and most of the time not endorsed by the government, but we do. Oh, the discrimination is endorsed by Governments, it's called Affirmative Action, which makes discrimination perfectly legal, for """justified causes""". And then you have Sweden, not even hiding behind the justified causes, actively using Affirmative Action to flip the balance of power, rather than achieve equality. |
| Everyone else remember when the Feminists at the United Nations tried to convince the Japanese to ban anime that had violence against women. Third Wave Feminists control mainstream Feminist organizations and are in the Governments of western nations. |
flannan said: Ha yes.. I don't know why I asked the question. But in my memories, many of them are quite silly.There sure exist plenty of those. For example, 80s Dirty Pair are usually found beating the crap out of male villains (they are not above beating genderless computers, but I can't remember any female villains). flannan said: Anime varies on the "treated like a man" part. But Kamijou Touma is well-known for punching female villains no less than male villains. The problem is Touma is the only male character I've ever seen with the balls to punch hard lolis, cuties and hotties girls. I wish we can get more of guys with this wonderfull belief of gender equality. |
Nyu said: again that was visual novels and doujin and only the ones that depicted rape in it however it got stomp by a female mangeka. Dud to the fact that many of those doujin and visual novels are also used to raise awareness.Everyone else remember when the Feminists at the United Nations tried to convince the Japanese to ban anime that had violence against women. Third Wave Feminists control mainstream Feminist organizations and are in the Governments of western nations. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
hazerddex said: Nyu said: again that was visual novels and doujin and only the ones that depicted rape in it however it got stomp by a female mangeka. Dud to the fact that many of those doujin and visual novels are also used to raise awarenessEveryone else remember when the Feminists at the United Nations tried to convince the Japanese to ban anime that had violence against women. Third Wave Feminists control mainstream Feminist organizations and are in the Governments of western nations. It was actually animes and mangas. And even if it was just doujin and visual novels, it would still be censorship, on the part of Feminists. |
Corvus8 said: flannan said: Never heard of any of these shows? Not even about Slayers, the archetypical 90s fantasy comedy anime? Not even Shakugan no Shana, one of Four Tsundere Wonders? What is this world coming to! Kids these days, you really make me feel old. Only a few of these are supposed to be obscure (Ruin Explorers, Tokyo ESP, Ange Vierge, Nijuu Mensou no Musume). There are a lot of this kind of shows, they are both new (Ange Vierge and Flip Flappers were last year) and old (Dirty Pair was out in 1985). This season we're getting Princess Principal, which will probably earn its place in this list. These shows have different settings and genres (but most of them are some kind of action), and this was just a small sampling of shows with prominent female protagonists. Are you taking your anime recommendations from a Jojo fan? Magical girl anime aren't a niche, they are a well-established genre that keeps making nice money to anime studios. To the point that there are special versions of magical girl shows that appeal to men, and even more magical girl shows that attempt to subvert the genre. (I'm sure these subversions are all written by anti-feminists like that Urobutcher guy) Nope, never heard of any of them, although i think i have Tokyo ESP in my dropped list. I'm an anime watcher since ~2012, i try to watch the good old ones, but it's hard to find some that will actually interest me. And also, animes with an female lead are lesser known. I think the reason is, you're trying to watch the "good" ones. And you let little kids who don't want to look at sexy women decide what is "good" for you. Or maybe you let old impotent critics decide what is "good" for you. Anyway, the anime I've mentioned aren't well represented in halls of fame - they are the fun kind of anime that comprise anime's core. I think Flip Flappers does deserve a place in halls of fame, though. Corvus8 said: "Are you taking your anime recommendations from a Jojo fan?" Not sure what you mean by that. Jojo's Bizzare Adventure is a peculiar battle anime. Its peculiarity is its utter lack of female characters. That's why I do not watch it. A lot of homosexuals people with less sex drive tell me it's a very good battle anime, but staring at muscled men for so long is not my idea of fun. Kuma said: Taifood said: There's tons of feminism in anime, but it's done horribly. This is because anime always tries to fit into a male empowerment and self insert fantasy. He's the hero. It'd be blasphemous to have more than one character that doesn't look like a chump, especially a girl. To compensate, the girls are given power over the dude almost like a gag. Not romantically. I mean physically and socially. Women being able to beat male MC into the air Women being able to kick the shonen protag's ass even though they're basically a god Women berating the man in any way possible even though they'd be completely fucked without him. Constantly calling him an idiot/loser/whatever even though most people wouldn't have a surviving friendship Etc, etc, etc This shit is just a symptom of garbage writing. The only remedy to this problem is to drop the narrative-fantasy bullshit and write a good story. This might sound counter intuitive, but I believe Asuna in SAO did this aspect pretty well (don't get me wrong though, almost the entirety of SAO is still terrible). pretty sure you will find them mostly in male targetted series so it was an male fetish rather than feminism it self... have you ever tried shoujo? it's definitely not something like that... And in shoujo anime, male characters are kind of like this too. Erebus25 said: I love the "wage gap", it's like saying "I don't /"believe/" in capitalism" I do not believe in capitalism. So what? Will you burn me for heresy? |
flannan said: Erebus25 said: I love the "wage gap", it's like saying "I don't /"believe/" in capitalism" I do not believe in capitalism. So what? Will you burn me for heresy? Even if you aren't just trolling, that statement beats the purpose of me saying anything else. |
_LapisLazuli said: I will admit that it's true that men are stupid creatures, teaching women not to dress slutty is easier than teaching men to not be an asshole. Frankly, we only need to teach the courts and the police to not be assholes and properly do the rape cases. Being an asshole should be death penalty in the first place. Nyu said: hazerddex said: again that was visual novels and doujin and only the ones that depicted rape in it however it got stomp by a female mangeka. Dud to the fact that many of those doujin and visual novels are also used to raise awareness It was actually animes and mangas. And even if it was just doujin and visual novels, it would still be censorship, on the part of Feminists. What, did you expect feminists to be infallible angels who will descend on this sinful Earth and make things right? Sorry to inform you, but women are humans. I know this is hard to accept, but it's another thing that feminism teaches us. Erebus25 said: Even if you aren't just trolling, that statement beats the purpose of me saying anything else. Frankly, I do not understand your initial statement. Any kid who finds he could not get his favorite toy or candy because it was sold out knows capitalism isn't magic that makes everything optimal. |
flannan said: Erebus25 said: Even if you aren't just trolling, that statement beats the purpose of me saying anything else. Frankly, I do not understand your initial statement. Any kid who finds he could not get his favorite toy or candy because it was sold out knows capitalism isn't magic that makes everything optimal. My initial statement didn't mean "believe" as in "I think it's good", but as in "it might not exist" |
Erebus25Sep 18, 2017 9:00 AM
Erebus25 said: I love the "wage gap", it's like saying "I don't /"believe/" in capitalism" Well, MANY Feminists are marxists, so yeah....they don't believe in capitalism. This is why I can't go along with the Far Left. My political viewpoints are indeed towards the left, but I'm still very firmly a capitalist. I like money, I like the fact I can buy things with money, I like the fact I live in a country that gives me these opportunities. The Far Left, Feminists, and SJWs are massive HYPOCRITES! They get to take advantage of all the great things America and the West has to offer but they still have the balls to criticize the very things they get to enjoy here while other people in less fortunate countries can't. It's disgusting. The far left and the far right can't be reasoned with. |
--ALEX-- said: Erebus25 said: I love the "wage gap", it's like saying "I don't /"believe/" in capitalism" Well, MANY Feminists are marxists, so yeah....they don't believe in capitalism. This is why I can't go along with the Far Left. My political viewpoints are indeed towards the left, but I'm still very firmly a capitalist. I like money, I like the fact I can buy things with money, I like the fact I live in a country that gives me these opportunities. The Far Left, Feminists, and SJWs are massive HYPOCRITES! They get to take advantage of all the great things America and the West has to offer but they still have the balls to criticize the very things they get to enjoy here while other people in less fortunate countries can't. It's disgusting. The far left and the far right can't be reasoned with. I don't even know what's political right and what's left, but I meant as in "don't think capitalism exists" |
Comic_Sans said: Kittens-kun said: No, so that people like you and OP will have something to talk aboutSo feminism needs to exist because of one random dude on an anime website? I only talk about when there's a thread about it. |
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zodd0 said: _LapisLazuli said: Maybe I live in a white side of the society Listen here, "I do get your point." is my answer. I will admit that it's true that men are stupid creatures, teaching women not to dress slutty is easier than teaching men to not be an asshole. White side? lol what? You wanna hide behind your skin color and pretend white men respect women? Those who voted for a "grab them by the pussy"-TV-star for President? Yeah, it's easier for men to say women are the problem, sure. But you don't seem to get my point, no. Women are taught to be responsible for mens behaviour. Feminism teaches men that they are responsible for their own behaviour. It's very simple... Wait, please calm down and read my post again.*** White side, I meant the comfort zone of the society, the "bright" side, the goody two shoes, the geeks, the whatever you would like to call. (Yes, I meant I don't like to go out and socialize with normies <outside of my community>, just like typical otakus, ) I didn't say women are the problem, I actually said men are the problem. |
flannan said: I think the reason is, you're trying to watch the "good" ones. And you let little kids who don't want to look at sexy women decide what is "good" for you. Or maybe you let old impotent critics decide what is "good" for you. Anyway, the anime I've mentioned aren't well represented in halls of fame - they are the fun kind of anime that comprise anime's core. I think Flip Flappers does deserve a place in halls of fame, though. No one "decides" what i watch. I look to 95% at the thumbnails, description and then the rating. I don't really read reviews. "And you let little kids who don't want to look at sexy women decide what is "good" for you." Dahell does that mean? flannan said: Jojo's Bizzare Adventure is a peculiar battle anime. Its peculiarity is its utter lack of female characters. That's why I do not watch it. A lot of homosexuals people with less sex drive tell me it's a very good battle anime, but staring at muscled men for so long is not my idea of fun I know of Jojo, heard a lot how great it is. The artstyle kinda shrugs me off and muscle man only does sound pretty dumb. But if the plot and characters are good i can probably bear with it. |
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Nyu said: Clebardman said: @_LapisLazuli oh, sorry I was aggressive. I think the problem here is "when westerners bring the word up while living in such a developed countries that have no problem with gender discrimination." We still have gender/race/whatever discriminations. Not to such an extent than many countries, and most of the time not endorsed by the government, but we do. Oh, the discrimination is endorsed by Governments, it's called Affirmative Action, which makes discrimination perfectly legal, for """justified causes""". And then you have Sweden, not even hiding behind the justified causes, actively using Affirmative Action to flip the balance of power, rather than achieve equality. Actually, when I wrote "most of the time", I was thinking about the laws that make the punishment worse when a crime is motivated by racism or hatred toward a religion. MFW aggressing me isn't as bad because I'm an atheist :c |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| "2) So, men have to work more. This is a bad thing, and feminism needs to rectify this. Outlaw longer hours, get men extra leave comparable to maternity leave, and overall stop exploitation of men. This will make capitalists stop wanting to hire men over women, so it's in the interests of feminism." Let's meet Bob, Bob want's to buy a new car for his family, not only that, but according to his schedule he won't have tive to see his son's school play. So Bob decides that for the next two months, he will work extra time so he has more time at the end of the year to spend with his family and more money to buy his new car. The next day, Bob goes to talk with his boss about it, his boss has no problem with his choice. Suddenly the SWAT team breaks in and arrests both Bob and his boss for breaking the "Longer hours" law, Bob's life now is ruined. But seriously, this phrase is stupid and uses dumb commie logic that "for one to earn something, other must lose something", which is not like free market works. |
zodd0 said: _LapisLazuli said: I don't see how feminism would solve rape/sexual assault/stalking problem. Feminism will solve equal rights, but not these problems. (btw, in most developed countries, equal rights have already been solved, haven't they?) Feminism is teaching men not to rape, teaching men to respect women and teaching them that womens bodies belong to the women and not to men. Instead women are being taught not to get raped, through slut-shaming and victim-blaming. _LapisLazuli said: These problems have something to do with people being an asshole, they have nothing to do with people not thinking of female as "equal" gender. What? Then why aren't women being "assholes" since 99% of rapists are men? "Feminism is teaching men not to rape" BS, to not rape is something that should be inherent of ones morals and ethics so he or she can be considered a person in the first place, not a beast. There's no need of feminism in this and is not like men (Is stupid puttin half of the population over one brand, but anyway...) don't know that rape is bad, even rapists know rape is bad. " teaching men to respect women" You have dozens of other better ideologies that teach individuals to respect other individuals, no need for feminism here... again. "teaching them that womens bodies belong to the women and not to men" The fact that "One has property over himself", again, has nothing to do with feminism, it's actually a core element of Libertarianism. And why every claim of yours is vectorial instead of talking about individuals? "What? Then why aren't women being "assholes" since 99% of rapists are men?" Nah, that's impossible, for you to be considered a man, first you need to be considered a person. |
15poundfish said: Feminism is bad, all my claims are true with a google search away. Feminism is a cancer that doesn't just invade politics but tries to invade and subvert entertainment to suit their ideology. Its why in anime dubs/subs there is inserted feminist garbage memes/propaganda that nobody gives a shit about except sjws at funimation and crunchyroll. Feminism doesn't really exist in anime and I am glad it doesn't because its in ideology that is poison to anything it touches like religion. As far as anime being about equality those are also rare to find as well, probably the only two anime I can recall that have egalitarian protagonists are touma from index and Akuru from Aho Girl! You are clearly extremely ignorant about feminism. It's not really a single ideology first of all, it's a collection of movements and ideologies. Just one Google search away, bruh. People have already mentioned several times as an example here that Studio Ghibli is one of the most feministic film studios in the world, and yet you claim there is no feminism in anime. This goes to show that you are clueless about either feminism or anime, or both. |
Zoldra0Sep 18, 2017 11:05 AM
Corvus8 said: flannan said: I think the reason is, you're trying to watch the "good" ones. And you let little kids who don't want to look at sexy women decide what is "good" for you. Or maybe you let old impotent critics decide what is "good" for you. Anyway, the anime I've mentioned aren't well represented in halls of fame - they are the fun kind of anime that comprise anime's core. I think Flip Flappers does deserve a place in halls of fame, though. No one "decides" what i watch. I look to 95% at the thumbnails, description and then the rating. I don't really read reviews. Well, good for you. But how come you missed all the shows I've mentioned, and hundreds like them? thewiru said: flannan said: 2) So, men have to work more. This is a bad thing, and feminism needs to rectify this. Outlaw longer hours, get men extra leave comparable to maternity leave, and overall stop exploitation of men. This will make capitalists stop wanting to hire men over women, so it's in the interests of feminism. Let's meet Bob, Bob want's to buy a new car for his family, not only that, but according to his schedule he won't have tive to see his son's school play. So Bob decides that for the next two months, he will work extra time so he has more time at the end of the year to spend with his family and more money to buy his new car. The next day, Bob goes to talk with his boss about it, his boss has no problem with his choice. Suddenly the SWAT team breaks in and arrests both Bob and his boss for breaking the "Longer hours" law, Bob's life now is ruined. SWAT should break in on the words "won't have time to see his son's school play". This is the atrocity I want to outlaw. thewiru said: But seriously, this phrase is stupid and uses dumb commie logic that "for one to earn something, other must lose something", which is not like free market works. Free market is a bad thing. Market has to be regulated, limits on work hours have to be legislated, standards must be enforced. This is the only way modern society is possible. If capitalists don't want to conform to workers' demands, they will be crushed with violence. In a civilized manner (by SWAT breaking in and enforcing law), or in a not civilized manner (by workers tearing them to pieces and taking their stuff). Erebus25 said: I don't even know what's political right and what's left Political right is Great Depression, political left is Stalin's reign of terror. Pick your poison. |
flannan said: Well, good for you. But how come you missed all the shows I've mentioned, and hundreds like them? Just looked up some of the ones you mentioned. These are all exactly what i definitely wouldn't watch. +Like i said, they are not well known. |
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| "Free market is a bad thing. Market has to be regulated, limits on work hours have to be legislated, standards must be enforced. This is the only way modern society is possible. If capitalists don't want to conform to workers' demands, they will be crushed with violence. In a civilized manner (by SWAT breaking in and enforcing law), or in a not civilized manner (by workers tearing them to pieces and taking their stuff)." First i just thought you had commie tendencies, but turns out you went full commie. You forget that the workers are also capitalists, and the capitalists are also workers. The fact that on the industrial revolution people used to work ridiculous amounts of time isn't because "Capitalism is bad", but because: 1: They already did work that same amount of time during feudalism, the fact that people went to factories was mainly because the conditions of working in factories were better than working on the farms of rich aristocrats. 2: It was because production sucked back then, with time better methods and techniques were achieved, and since capitalists gain nothing by producing something more than the demmand, people ended up having to work less. You know, most bosses aren't "villains with twirling moustaches", they are people like us. "Political right is Great Depression, political left is Stalin's reign of terror. Pick your poison." *Political Keynesianism and FED is Great Depression. |
Comic_Sans said: @LoneWolf Here comes Clebardcuck riding in on his white horse to save the asian m'ladies. Do you ever get tired of vilifying your own gender and pushing the women as victims narrative? How is @Clebardman vilifying his own gender here?The implication I got from his post was that Japanese men are more sexist overall than French men and that the weeaboo was ridiculous for trying to paint French men as the literal scum of Earth while simultaneously praising Japan as if it were some kind of magical feminist paradise. That is not the same thing as vilifying the whole male sex. If anything, I would argue that some ideological nutcases would label him a "cultural racist" because he criticized a different culture. Also have you even fucking been to Asia? Or do you have any Asian ancestry? Do you realize how retarded it looks like when you're telling someone from Asia about his/her country and don't even live there and are not part of the culture? "If you're not part of this or that culture, then you have no right to criticize it", hmmm, where have I heard this before?Oh wait, it's the exact same argument multiculturalists tend to use when someone criticizes the highly misogynistic cultures of the Middle East or Islamic conservatism. Do you think they teach men that it's okay to rape girls in Japan? Wtf kind of alternate reality do you live in? Last time I checked rape was illegal in every fucking country no matter what the culture is. Unless the victims happen to be male prison inmates. People know that stealing is wrong too, it doesn't mean they're not going to steal shit. Teaching men not to rape is such a redundant thing to do and only feeds into their own retard ideology and assumptions about men as a whole. Maybe not rape, no, and I don't really believe in the concept of "teaching men not to rape" either. However, Japan does have big issues with sexual harassment, more so than the West, so it's definitely not all fine and dandy. Why do you think Japan has women-only passenger cars? They exist for the same reasons that women-only train cars exist in countries like Egypt and India, and I don't think I need to lay it out for you how women are treated there.Also, rape isn't illegal in "every fucking country", Saudi Arabia being a primary example of this (it's treated as "adultery" and both parties tend to be punished). @Clebardman This is why people need to challenge you more often. You have no fucking integrity. All you do is proclaim you're right; talk shit about anyone who disagrees with you and refuse to debate.. I actually don't mind guys like like Traed who I disagree with often, but he has a great deal of integrity and he actually bothers to defend and expand on his opinions, but people like you are just fucking cancer and scared little bitches. Kind of ironic that a woman is taking up your fight. Anyway @Comic_Sans I don't know why you're bothering to debate in this cuck's stead when he had clearly given up, but good job on attributing on his arguments a lot more thought and elaboration than he's probably capable of. He's vilifying men, by pretty much saying men are "sexist pigs". In a sense hes right that there are gonna be sexist men in any country, but the implication is that the majority of men are "sexist pigs" and there is a culture in all countries that somehow supports these sexist beliefs and that no matter where you go you're just going to get constantly harassed by men just for being female. First of all you're doing something called moving the goal post. The original argument was about rape right? Japan is actually one of the worst countries if you want to talk about a "rape problem", because not only does it have one of the lowest occurrences of rape in the world, but it has one of the lowest crime rates in general. By all means though lets talk about sexual harassment. First of all the groping on the trains and female-only cars. I don't see why would attribute something to sexism, when it could be much more easily attributed to population density. Cities like Tokyo are extremely dense and there are even people that push people into trains to fit more people in. The opportunity is there so that's why these kinds of incidents occur more often. I'm sure if there were these kinds of opportunities in other countries men grope there as well. As for the cars themselves, why would a country that has a women hating culture given them exclusive cars? If they really fucking hated women, would they not just force them to travel with the men? Instead they give them their own exclusive access to cars and of course this is payed through tax-payer dollars... mostly men's tax payer dollars, as men are the vast majority of workforce in Japan. Also lets not forget about the false accusations of groping being such a huge problem there was a film made about it and there is an insurance for it. https://nextshark.com/japanese-men-can-now-get-gropers-insurance-protect-false-sexual-assault-claims/ Now for the whole cultural relativism thing. Do you not think its demeaning to tell people from other cultures how to run their countries and that their cultures need to change? I agree that when people come in from other countries they should integrate to the culture of that country, but your talking about going to other cultures and imposing your values and culture on that country. You complain so much about Islam and the Middle East, but is it not western interventionism that lead to the middle east becoming so unstable and radicalized in the first place? Now if countries voluntarily take on western values thats okay. Places like S.Korea and Singapore have made incredible economic gains by taking on more western capitalist beliefs, but from what I understand you're very much talking about forcing your culture on to other countries and frankly I don't see how that is productive and its just going to lead to more problems like what we're seeing in the Middle East. I get the whole "west is best" mentality and I agree that western values tend to be fairly successful, but you can't force people to take them on and you don't need to force every single western value on them. Maybe they like capitalism, but they don't care much for feminism. Let them take what they want instead of trying to have this cultural hegemony. If people legit love the western values so much they can't stand their own culture and values, then they'll just move to the west. Why does country have to have a homogeneous culture. Also do you not think its rude, demeaning and presumptuous to tell someone from another culture that their culture is just straight up wrong or retrograde and you need to switch to our culture, because its so much better, especially when they've never even experienced the country or culture. I think it's completely okay when they've come to your country and they're not integrating to that countries beliefs, but when your talking about other countries IMO that's going too far. |
LoneWolfSep 18, 2017 12:00 PM
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
thewiru said: "Free market is a bad thing. Market has to be regulated, limits on work hours have to be legislated, standards must be enforced. This is the only way modern society is possible. If capitalists don't want to conform to workers' demands, they will be crushed with violence. In a civilized manner (by SWAT breaking in and enforcing law), or in a not civilized manner (by workers tearing them to pieces and taking their stuff)." First i just thought you had commie tendencies, but turns out you went full commie. Oh, you thought I wasn't part of the political left? thewiru said: You forget that the workers are also capitalists, and the capitalists are also workers. The fact that on the industrial revolution people used to work ridiculous amounts of time isn't because "Capitalism is bad", but because: 1: They already did work that same amount of time during feudalism, the fact that people went to factories was mainly because the conditions of working in factories were better than working on the farms of rich aristocrats. 2: It was because production sucked back then, with time better methods and techniques were achieved, and since capitalists gain nothing by producing something more than the demmand, people ended up having to work less. You know, most bosses aren't "villains with twirling moustaches", they are people like us. It doesn't matter if they are people like us (which they aren't). What matters is, only violence in some form can bring about positive change. |
| "It doesn't matter if they are people like us (which they aren't). What matters is, only violence in some form can bring about positive change." It didn't work out several times, but it will this time, right? Giving the state more power to violate you is one of the most backfireable things you can do. |
| I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I would like to see polls be a worded a little better. It's obvious by the wording of the options that the individual who started the thread felt a certain way about the issue, and your'e not going to get a very representative response when the questions are biased like that. I'm not trying to say that I'm against the general consensus here, just that it seems pointless to offer a poll if you aren't going to get an honest representation of the way people think. |
| First off politics are already in anime so whoever said that is obviously oblivious as hell. And furthermore, asking a bunch of weebs here about their stance on feminism in their anime is borderline asking for regurgitated shit posting because they don't know anything about feminism. Personally I'd like some real life issues used in anime not directly or exact beat for beat but I do find it interesting when world events effect or inspire the state of mediums. It doesn't have to be forced, I only want a writer who is directly influenced or find the subject of interest because other wise it'll just come off as heavy handed or "forced". |
 |
| @LoneWolf Anyway @Comic_Sans I don't know why you're bothering to debate in this cuck's stead when he had clearly given up, but good job on attributing on his arguments a lot more thought and elaboration than he's probably capable of. Why not? It's not like I have anything else to do.He's vilifying men, by pretty much saying men are "sexist pigs". In a sense hes right that there are gonna be sexist men in any country, but the implication is that the majority of men are "sexist pigs" and there is a culture in all countries that somehow supports these sexist beliefs and that no matter where you go you're just going to get constantly harassed by men just for being female. Where is @Clebardman saying "all men are sexist pigs"? Because I looked and looked in his post but I couldn't find anything.Aw don't give me the "Asia doesn't need feminism" BS where everything is pink and good. Japan has women-only cars in trains because they fail to teach people not to rape girls. They're not the only asian country in that case either. "just lives together without a problem" yeah right. Here is his post, now highlight the part where he states he thinks all men are pigs.I still remember that weeb third wave feminist I was working with. She wrote a 2 pages essay on Facebook saying that french men where pigs for looking at her legs when she was wearing a miniskirt, and wanted to emigrate to Japan, the perfect place of equality. The reality check was hard when three different girls came to say "lol u dumb I live in Japan and got followed two hours by a creep on bicycle/groped in the train today, it happens every week" OT: voted yes to piss you off, cringe OP First of all you're doing something called moving the goal post. The original argument was about rape right? Japan is actually one of the worst countries if you want to talk about a "rape problem", because not only does it have one of the lowest occurrences of rape in the world, but it has one of the lowest crime rates in general. Reported occurrences of something ≠ total amount of occurrences. The amount of reported rapes in Sweden was lower in 2015 than in 2014, yet that doesn't automatically signify the actual amount decreased because the willingness to report crimes has dipped as well (though I don't think Japan is one of those countries where thirty gang rapes and three hundred murders a day occur).By all means though lets talk about sexual harassment. First of all the groping on the trains and female-only cars. I don't see why would attribute something to sexism, when it could be much more easily attributed to population density. Cities like Tokyo are extremely dense and there are even people that push people into trains to fit more people in. The opportunity is there so that's why these kinds of incidents occur more often. I'm sure if there were these kinds of opportunities in other countries men grope there as well. Then where are all the women only subway cars in densely populated European or American cities? I mean, I've been to the Parisian metro during rush hour, and it most certainly wasn't sparsely crowded. Are you telling me French men who grope just don't exist?As for the cars themselves, why would a country that has a women hating culture given them exclusive cars? If they really fucking hated women, would they not just force them to travel with the men? Instead they give them their own exclusive access to cars and of course this is payed through tax-payer dollars... mostly men's tax payer dollars, as men are the vast majority of workforce in Japan. Why not choose to stop beating around the bush? Oh wait... that would be more complicated, so let's just give the womynz women only cars instead.Women only cars is a lazy solution born out of pure desperation. If groping hadn't been such a huge problem then they wouldn't have implemented them in the first place. Again, it's not a coincidence that they almost exclusively exist in countries like Egypt and India. Also lets not forget about the false accusations of groping being such a huge problem there was a film made about it and there is an insurance for it. https://nextshark.com/japanese-men-can-now-get-gropers-insurance-protect-false-sexual-assault-claims/ The article you linked to states itself that molesting is a huge problem in Japan, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by citing an article that proves my point even further.Now for the whole cultural relativism thing. Do you not think its demeaning to tell people from other cultures how to run their countries and that their cultures need to change? I agree that when people come in from other countries they should integrate to the culture of that country, but your talking about going to other cultures and imposing your values and culture on that country. Imposing my values on other countries WHERE? Since when does judging a country that has problems equal wanting to invade it and colonize or whatever shit it is you're implying? Going by that logic that would make everybody here on MAL, including you, an imperialist seeing how we've all judged a different country or culture at some point. The moment you form an opinion on a country or a culture that isn't yours is the moment your claim of "not wanting to judge countries or cultures other than mine" is rendered null and void.You complain so much about Islam and the Middle East, but is it not western interventionism that lead to the middle east becoming so unstable and radicalized in the first place? The radical islamist elements were already there before the West started fucking around, though the intervention of the West definitely helped the Islamists furthering their cause. Anyway, I have never claimed to be a fan of Western interventionism, so this is really just a straw man.Now if countries voluntarily take on western values thats okay. Places like S.Korea and Singapore have made incredible economic gains by taking on more western capitalist beliefs, but from what I understand you're very much talking about forcing your culture on to other countries and frankly I don't see how that is productive and its just going to lead to more problems like what we're seeing in the Middle East.I get the whole "west is best" mentality and I agree that western values tend to be fairly successful, but you can't force people to take them on and you don't need to force every single western value on them. Maybe they like capitalism, but they don't care much for feminism. Let them take what they want instead of trying to have this cultural hegemony. If people legit love the western values so much they can't stand their own culture and values, then they'll just move to the west. Why does country have to have a homogeneous culture. Also do you not think its rude, demeaning and presumptuous to tell someone from another culture that their culture is just straight up wrong or retrograde and you need to switch to our culture, because its so much better, especially when they've never even experienced the country or culture. I think it's completely okay when they've come to your country and they're not integrating to that countries beliefs, but when your talking about other countries IMO that's going too far. I have already adressed this, judging a different country or culture and pointing out that it has problems is not the same thing as imperialism and going by this logic everybody on MAL should be considered an imperialist. Japanese people are free to listen to my opinion on their country (which, for the record, is a country that I really like, despite its problems) and afterwards, they can choose to agree, disagree, not care at all or tell me to fuck off, just like foreigners are free to tell me their opinion on France and Sweden and I can choose to agree, disagree, not care at all or tell them to fuck off after hearing it. The difference between me and "but muh different culture"-alists is that I don't try to hide the fact that I have opinions on other countries and cultures while the latter are being hypocrites about it. |
Comic_SansSep 18, 2017 2:43 PM
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| Yeah they'd never have feminism forced into anime. |
BonerIncSep 18, 2017 3:50 PM
| @flannan if your looking for a series with a strong female cast try the Official touhou mangas i can send the manga's and novels Cronolology over if you want |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
Darek said: When looking through this thread I realize how much smarter than most of you guys I really am... And I, by no means consider myself smart at all, makes me wonder what to think of you. It also proves to me why I hate both sides of the table with such a passion and why I've quit using any other board other than AD, with the exception of occasional post. If there is one thing, one thing that I owe this topic and you people, it is that you stroke my ego. And you do so by reminding me that no matter how dumb I might be and no matter how low may I fall at times. I will still be a lot more reasonable than you guys. So thank you for being dumb, feminists and anti-feminists alike. Hehe they are just 2 sides of the same shitty coin that shouldn't have even existed. It's good to see that at least SOME people here are reasonable like you are. So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? |
| @Comic_Sans That is a clusterfuck of quoting... It's more the "teaching men not to rape" sentiment that I had a problem with. I'll admit I made some inferring based on what hes said in the past. But more or less the message he seemed to be trying to send is that men are "sexist pigs" and need to be taught "not to rape". There is a disparity between amount of reported rapes and the actual occurrence of rape in every country. I don't believe Japan is special in this regard. A lazy solution would be not giving a fuck and not investing money into women-only cars. Not only just money, but time and efficiently. Also I don't think you realize how packed these train cars are during rush hours. French men who grope certainly exist, but they don't have the sort of opportunities that the men in Japan do. I never argued that molestation is not a problem. I was arguing about the reason why it happens and also the fact that the numbers of these cases could be inflated due to false accusations, considering in many circumstances its a "he said" "she said" situation. Perhaps I was misunderstanding your stance. You're free to criticize other cultures, but that doesn't mean they need to or should change. They also are not necessarily going to change in the way you want. There are certainly cultures I disagree with as well, but I honestly don't care that much unless I am personally affected. Often times with laws though when a certain case sets a precedent, other countries can soon follow. Also its just kind of fun to follow world politics, but anti-islamic sentiment in particular seems a bit zealous to me. There are also different ways to spread culture like how the UN does it. In many ways those are "forced" as well, but because they are seen as "good changes" they are not always pushed against. |
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Taifood said: Kuma said: Well yeah not every single anime has this premise but the most popular ones sure do. Sure there are popular Shoujo but I don't think they're as popular as Shonen.pretty sure you will find them mostly in male targetted series so it was an male fetish rather than feminism it self... have you ever tried shoujo? it's definitely not something like that... All I'm saying is that it's feminism done terribly, since it also has to adhere to a male audience. A female audience doesn't have to worry about this at all. Of course, poorly written Shoujos will have the opposite of this, making men obsolete. Equality is equality after all. that isn't feminism... i don't get from which view it's feminism... it's all exagrated for cater for male fantasies... i don't said it's bad or good, but definitely missuse... flannan said: Kuma said: pretty sure you will find them mostly in male targetted series so it was an male fetish rather than feminism it self... have you ever tried shoujo? it's definitely not something like that... And in shoujo anime, male characters are kind of like this too. ehh... depend, it has really wide range... some female like to get dominated, some like defeating a man, some like sadist kind of man, but definitely not a weak (literaly) man... even infamouse skip beat that all of story about strong female want to beat his ravange and technicaly really hostile is "meak" when facing tsuruga ren... _________________ also lol'ed at how the pointing out US feminist try to shutdown anime /manga somewhat is justification to illogicaly the whole movement when the one who fight for it also japan feminist... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I am not fond of an awkardly hamfisted obnoxious political message but anime and manga in general could use just the very basics of feminism : That is.......don't make your women oversexualised walking sex toys Another moment that has to go is when the guy says he has to "protect" the heroine becasue " you are a girl' and gets in the way of her fights even though the Female character has the power of superman while he is a nomral human being. It is incredibly cringeworthy |
| Are you really that afraid of women having equal rights, @Nyu? |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Nyu said: GoldNautilus said: See above post, i edited it to talk about the difference between feminism and misandry. They are not and can not be the same thing, even though you pretend they are to push your agenda. Third Wave Feminists are misandrists, but they successfully play themselves of as Feminists, and they are mainstream feminist Organizations, Governments (Sweden) and the UN. They represent Feminism now. Ok, then from now on, let's call pancakes toast, since words and definitions mean nothing to you. I can say that I am toast, but that doesn't mean I am. Same with misandrists who operate under the guise of feminism. You say feminists are all misandrists like it's just that simple. It's not. Wtf am i doing, you are either a fourteen year old who thinks they know everything, or a grown ass man who thinks the world is black and white and can only understand absolutes that fit into a pre-established worldview that completely lacks nuance. Either way, a waste of time and energy. |
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