Macross Δ Episode 25 Discussion

valvravetruth said:
In the preview the 'white' on Freyja's hand expanded:(, i know that her life is short but at least let her go through it peacefully.

It is true that the FreyjaxHayate moment is good, but their developement is not enough to reach a relationship. At most they are just like a ultimate best friend zone. At the very least one side need to confess in order for the pair to happen, especially when Hayate seems to be a bit dull at romance department eventhou he is worried/concern about Freyja.

There is also a chance nothing big(in romance) will happen. So there might be a possible movie specially made for romance.

Frost190 said:
The scene that I enjoyed very much is definitely Hayate x Freyja moment! I knew it that Hayate's father is the Earthling that Freyja met when she was a child! XD

The next episode title is "Eternal Walküre", but the preview shows a crying Freyja makes me worried... I really hope they'll get a happy ending.

Putting that aside, I feel 26 episodes are too short. Some things happened too quick or too slow, causing a lack of characters growth or screen times for several characters aside the major ones. Unless they're planning to make a second season or a movie like Macross F.

Turtles_Leader said:

Well, It's still ten times more than the MiragexHayate moment. I have no problem Hayate and Freiya not ending together, but it's the only couple that makes sense. Either that, either they Freiya die, either there is no romance. That's the 3 possibilities that makes sense to me. But if she stays alive and he goes with Mirage, I call that bad writting.

Fai said:
Mirage has shown something akin to actually adult romantic interest to Hayate, yet undeservedly was robbed of the attention and development she should have had as a persong

Fai said:
Lol@ people who are still believing any of the triangle relationships are in anyway defined. Hayate has shown no interest in either of the girls, Mirage has shown something akin to actually adult romantic interest to Hayate, yet undeservedly was robbed of the attention and development she should have had as a person and Freya's character is literally limited to "Hi I am Ranka 2 with different hair color and without ridiculous dog-ears hairstyle, I don't have a backstory tho(ranka's only redeeming factor) but I just really like singing, y'all!". Hoping Hayate ends up with nobody.

Makina/Reina is the CLOSEST thing even resembling actual romance in this.

AS for the episode, we are back to being disappointing.

There's no way this is getting solved in a single episode without a movie announcement

3/5

Stark700 said:
The flashbacks were somewhat interesting to see about Hayate although I find it odd for it to be in this penultimate episode. They could of made that earlier. Oh poor Mikumo, I really wonder who plans to save her now. I honestly think the whole plan with the brainwashing is going a bit far. She's literally being treated like a tool of war. Freyja and Hayate got some more decent screen time this episode.

Frost190 said:
I feel 26 episodes are too short. Some things happened too quick or too slow, causing a lack of characters growth or screen times for several characters aside the major ones.

Farabeuf said:
My Japanese is bad at best, but I believe Berger mentions that Lady M has links to the Megaroad 1? Did I understand correctly? Then either Misa or Minmay she is.

Turtles_Leader said:


I disagree with that. He clearly has a guenine care for Freiya, and went even if it was less marked in the late few episodes. If you talk about romantic feeling presented as in many anime, yeah, I agree. But personally, I think this kind of romance is better. it's more subtle, it show their care for each other without saying it. The anniversary episode was the peak of that, it's not the kinda thing you'd do for everyone. But yeah, since that there wasn't something really signifiant.



True that, I hate her treatment. she doesn't get enough developpment. I mean love triangle is one of the three bases of macross. She is obviously part of that, and her character is less developped than all Walkure members. As if making her the Max and Milie granchild was enough for them. She always seems pushed on the side. That annoys me, because she has good potential.

Virtual_sk said:
I believe most of the second half of delta lacks excitement. We are on to the final episode but it doesn’t really feel like it.


We previously had masters like Kentaro Haneda and Yoko Kanno so talk about being spoiled. Music is after all a key factor to make these series memorable and I agree about it being more on the lackluster side.

Elazul said:
Mirage had some potential but the writers clearly messed up her development. The plot got inexcusable painful pacing. They spent a lot of time trying to explain the Windemerians reasons for starting a war and I still have to find a convincing one. The dialogue between Keith and Roid about how they used to fly in the same skies was pure filler. We already knew they used to be best friends so why they had to emphasize it another time? Therefore, as the series progressed they repeatedly emphasized the main plot points over and over again, and only decided to unfold them now as the series is nearing its end. This is clearly lazy writing.

hana_san said:
Actually there was no love triangle from the beginning.. it was obvious that hayate has a feeling for Freyja and Freyja has a feeling for Hayate.. and Mirage alone has one sided love..so the the triangle doesn't work that way...

The most clear sign of Hayate's feeling was in ep 16 & 17 (I suggest you to re watch it) and Mirage has witnessed it and got jealous for that..

Virtual_sk said:
I believe most of the second half of delta lacks excitement. We are on to the final episode but it doesn’t really feel like it.


We previously had masters like Kentaro Haneda and Yoko Kanno so talk about being spoiled. Music is after all a key factor to make these series memorable and I agree about it being more on the lackluster side.

Farabeuf said:


Great point. The music has been bland and forgettable. For every good Walkure song, there's 2 more that are meh at best. And I doubt I'd be able to recognize any of the orchestral/background music pieces even when I've been watching this for the past half year.

Turtles_Leader said:



It's even worse for me. If they had to fill 13 episode and still got so much to tell in the last one, It worse than what I thought until now. Seriously, they have to conclude the love story, the mikumo thing, the fight the Lady M thing, give a decent end to Windamere, having a last concert (it's always the case), make an epilogue and surely other thing I don't think of right now in 20 min, it's gonna be hella rushed.

-Janet said:
If the rumors that were going on a couple a weeks ago true the anime was suppose to be 13 episodes with Hayate x Freyja being the main couple of the show but sadly the stupid sponsors forced Kawamori-sensei to include a love triangle how sad /: If only they sticked to his plan the anime would've been more successful among the fans and those mirage fans would finally accept that Hayate only has eyes for Freyja but some just continue to think she actually has a chance. People can't seem to acknowledge the fact that Hayate only thinks of protecting Freyja not Mirage, I'm not saying he loves Freyja but he has shown to care more about her then he ever has for Mirage

Anyways that said what a cute scene between Freyja x Hayate -squeals- please Kawamori-sensei don't kill off Freyja, whatever time she left she needs to spend it with her true love cough cough Hayate <3

Still a Fucken 10 for me ^___^

-Janet said:

I mean you got a point there my friend but I have a feeling that if the sponsors didn't get in the way the anime would've worked out better and we would've had more time to develope a relationship between Haya x Fre and learn more about the supporting characters plus the movie that Kawamori-sensei plan to make to maybe conclude the show Dx but now the anime is all over the place though I'm still enjoying it for some reason :)

GD1551 said:
Things that needed to happen

-Windermerrian declaration of war needed to make sense. The initial conflict had enough to justify why they were doing what they did but declaring war on the UN makes no sense at all, especially since Roid is one of those calculating people.

-If they wanted to make a love triangle Mirage needed more development by FAR. Honestly at this point I think even the admiral of the Elysion has more development than her. Could have done this by removing filler conversations/scenes.

-The pacing needed to be a lot better. At this part of the story we should have been at episode 22 or 23 out of 26. It's absolutely ridiculous that next week is the final episode, and without a movie there's no way they will tie this up.

-They needed not to kill certain people until much later in the show like Messer.

-They needed to be much more consistent without how they protected the singers. Walkure far too often seemed like they were going on the battlefield in the most ridiculous of positions. This is further emphasized with Makina getting shot in the last episode.

-The battles seemed too small scale and were always with the same group of people. Are you telling me 12 or so pilots were holding back the UN forces? That scene with Keith taking out a fleet was BEYOND ridiculous.

- Stop mentioning the damn wind so much, good lord.

- Stop repeating plot details over and over, it's insulting to the viewers. Especially the one about Windemerrians having short life spans.

- Have consistency and logic. For instance, make the effects of the var CONSISTENT. Also there will always be gaps in the singing of the wind/star singer (not confirmed for star though), how do they expect to survive if the UN come with dimensional weapons during those?

Personally, I think the merchant is the most interesting character in the show. He's the only one that's consistent and whose actions make sense. As he said, he's a merchant and operates exactly like one. Going where and to who, he can make the most money off of.

SaeLiuS said:


My thoughs exactly, speacily the wind part. They should stick their wind in their rear hole and be done with it.

L-Ryoshi said:
Woah, did Freyja just trigger the most obvious death flag ever there? "Mmm, I'll tell you later..."... welp, from the preview it seems like she may well sacrifice herself for her love at least.

Mikumo, Mikumo, Mikumo.... was just forced to commit mass murder on an epic scale.

I cannot wait to see how they'll asspull themselves out of this. The Windermerians basically have the greatest weapon of mass destruction, and no qualms with using her. She's basically under leash because of some magic words. Makes you wonder just how they'll manage to save the galaxy when only three Walkure can sing their songs, which can't even reach Mikumo to wake her up, eh?

Looking forward to seeing how they'll try to end this. Maybe if they bust out Lynn and Basara at the end and blast their music across the universe somehow. Still mad asspull, but at least we'll have some much deserved fan service. They owe us that much as least.

Thess said:
Re: Love "Triangle".

Sponsors rumors aren't rumors. Do you want me to search quote about it from the interview? Kawamori didn't specifically say he wanted to take down the love triangle, just 'one of the three aspects of classic macross' (love triangle, transformable fighters and idols), but you can easily put two and two when the draft of Delta was about a valkyrie pilot club that was boosted by their idol's partner (so music and mecha were always part of this).

Sponsors also insisted in the war story because Delta plan originally was just sports competition, so it's not just the love triangle that was added, but also the whole plot. Nonetheless, the foundation of the show is "pilot is powered up by their idol partner" which they have affirmed time and time again. That's why Mirage looks like a third wheel guest star and her scenes are awkward and forced as hell.

Personally, I don't like Freyja and Hayate romantically (I love their friendship), but it's frankly pretty obvious they are the main couple. Novel version of Delta is written by the same Frontier author who was never ambiguous about Sheryl/Alto angle. And he portrays Hayate unknowingly in love with Freyja since their meeting *(Freyja thought he was a creep first, though). Still, they can end it "unresolved" like Frontier was (everyone knew Sheryl/Alto was a couple but didn't have the guts to say so until the movie).

*Signs: Looking at her smile makes his heart race fast, touching her suddenly dispelled of his 'darkness' as if he was washed up by light, he constantly stalked her and made sure she was okay even irrationally because he's never done such thing before and was unwilling to leave her company. The novel insists she gave him his purpose in life and made him enjoy living which he didn't know before their meeting.

It's not really subtle. Yeah, he thinks Mirage (and Mikumo and other Walkure) are beautiful, but they never get his heart race if that makes sense.

YK97 said:


Please go ahead and quote the article. It adds credibility. ;) 'Cuz if not, you're just a random person on the internet behind a screen that can babble all he/she wants. Just saying.

“As you’d expect, the series came about based around the three main aspects that define Macross; songs, battles and a love triangle type of relationship. I normally ask the sponsors if I can drop one but they always ask to include all three.”

“As the singers became a kind of unit in Delta I was thinking of having the variable fighters as a team as well and focusing on the teamwork between the two groups. Before this plan was completed, I had an idea for a competition in terms of air combat. As this kind of competition exists within an air force, like a numbers of air force squadrons competing with one another.”

“For that premise there was no Var Syndrome, just these girl singers harmonizing with an air combat team and get themselves empowered by their songs. However, during that period the sponsor asked to have an obvious enemy in the story.”

Thess said:
Re: Love "Triangle".

Sponsors rumors aren't rumors. Do you want me to search quote about it from the interview? Kawamori didn't specifically say he wanted to take down the love triangle, just 'one of the three aspects of classic macross' (love triangle, transformable fighters and idols), but you can easily put two and two when the draft of Delta was about a valkyrie pilot club that was boosted by their idol's partner (so music and mecha were always part of this).

Sponsors also insisted in the war story because Delta plan originally was just sports competition, so it's not just the love triangle that was added, but also the whole plot. Nonetheless, the foundation of the show is "pilot is powered up by their idol partner" which they have affirmed time and time again. That's why Mirage looks like a third wheel guest star and her scenes are awkward and forced as hell.

Personally, I don't like Freyja and Hayate romantically (I love their friendship), but it's frankly pretty obvious they are the main couple. Novel version of Delta is written by the same Frontier author who was never ambiguous about Sheryl/Alto angle. And he portrays Hayate unknowingly in love with Freyja since their meeting *(Freyja thought he was a creep first, though). Still, they can end it "unresolved" like Frontier was (everyone knew Sheryl/Alto was a couple but didn't have the guts to say so until the movie).

*Signs: Looking at her smile makes his heart race fast, touching her suddenly dispelled of his 'darkness' as if he was washed up by light, he constantly stalked her and made sure she was okay even irrationally because he's never done such thing before and was unwilling to leave her company. The novel insists she gave him his purpose in life and made him enjoy living which he didn't know before their meeting.

It's not really subtle. Yeah, he thinks Mirage (and Mikumo and other Walkure) are beautiful, but they never get his heart race if that makes sense.

Turtles_Leader said:

Ok, that's the seconde time someone write this. This is mathematical. A triangle. 3 vertexes, so 3 people in it. if you put 4 it's a square. The expression love triangle is not based on the number of people around one, but in the number of people in the relation.

alterzero said:


Mirage was undeniably half-assed . Either make her A part of the triangle not a weak link or just not involve her in the 1st opening from the start(SHOULD HAVE BEEN MIKUMO and Freyja ). To quote Master Yoda "Do or do not, there is no try". Mirage's confession was gutsy but fell flat. Main couple are indeed Hayate and Freyja but their moments seem very friendly instead of romantic. As much as I hate ranka...she's got romantic moments with alto. Sheryl had romantic moments with ALto too.(What i meant to say is, the feeling IS STRONGER with ranka and sheryl). Freyja deserves a chance more than ranka IMO. Freyja's cuter than Ranka and sings better too. But as I said before I am fine with how the ship goes since I am a Mikumo fan. It would be interesting to see Freyja die though. None of the main love interests have died so far if i am not mistaken. It would really create a huge impact since Freyja is one of the important characters. Actually any important characters dying would be good too but lets see how it plays out this sunday. I would feel a sour taste if mirage ends up with Hayate though...if there are Delta movies...please make a love triangle from a mathematical way... Hayate is the centre of the triangle... Mirage, Freyja and Mikumo are the edges... All the great girls are going to waste T_T (mirage is not great in my books due to the development...rushed pacing to make her significant is like watching the pace of Batman V Superman, don't get me wrong i love the movie just hated the pacing) . Not gonna get my hopes high up in case I get disappointed...it feels as if Urobutcher (I am careful in expectations thanks to him LOL but i love his work regardless, the dark themes are awesome) ending is around the corner


again, FOREVER HAIL MIKUMO!