Does pausing underwear loli scene makes you a pedophile?

Read my good friend's WEBNOVEL

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Apr 2016

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Blackheart said:

Dementedkaliber said:

What if i like both though? How does that work as a linear path of brain activity. Did i beat the equation professor? ;)

its not an equation to fix, you're ill.

You stole the avatar of a Canadian that tries to intellectually debate creationists, and i'm supposed to take u seriously when u say i'm mentally ill for desiring kids.

Apr 22, 2016 10:46 AM

#257

Blackheart

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Jan 2008

463

Dementedkaliber said:

Blackheart said:

its not an equation to fix, you're ill.

You stole the avatar of a Canadian that tries to intellectually debate creationists, and i'm supposed to take u seriously when u say i'm mentally ill for desiring kids.

Hey calm down leave my husbando out of this ok? I respect your wairfu or whoever.

But yeah, sexualizing children is an illness. I'm a pagan so i live by the creed of An it harm none, do what thou wilt. Celebrating the illness as much as recognizing it is one.

Apr 22, 2016 10:52 AM

#258

PoeticJustice

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May 2012

7909

What a shitty thread. You people love children too much, fuck you.

Apr 22, 2016 10:56 AM

#259

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Apr 2016

637

Blackheart said:

Dementedkaliber said:

You stole the avatar of a Canadian that tries to intellectually debate creationists, and i'm supposed to take u seriously when u say i'm mentally ill for desiring kids.

Hey calm down leave my husbando out of this ok? I respect your wairfu or whoever.

But yeah, sexualizing children is an illness. I'm a pagan so i live by the creed of An it harm none, do what thou wilt. Celebrating the illness as much as recognizing it is one.

Lol i sent him a screenshot of our conversation on twitter, do wonder if he'll see it and laugh. I don't have a waifu btw.

Apr 22, 2016 11:53 AM

#260

DmonHiro

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Jan 2008

1943

Even if it would, there's nothing technically wrong with being a pedophile as long as you don't act on it. If you're a pedophile and you have never touched a child, and will never touch a child, then it's all good.

Apr 22, 2016 12:02 PM

#261

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637

Fintan said:

There's nothing productive that will come from these threads, but I just hope more of you can see that you can support artistic freedom without supporting pedophiles and the community they've set up among anime/manga fans. Like I said earlier, I don't think any of it should be illegal or banned. I just simply think people should not belittle the consequences of allowing people in our community to talk so freely about their attraction to children, 2-D or otherwise.

I would like to know what u would consider to be the best course of action. If it is simply "don't allow loli communities because pedophiles could communicate there" then that seems unfair. Do you want to allow remotely sexual pics of anime adults but not anime kids. That's not even including who judges whether a character is a kid (or should it be minor?) and if it's sexual in any way. Who is going to support the artistic expression of such images if not the people that like them? If loli lovers are not allowed to talk freely about their attraction, then ur basically preventing them from having communities. I'm not sure what the consequences u speak of are either. Unless u mean bad PR which i could care less about.

Apr 22, 2016 12:23 PM

#262

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Sep 2010

1229

Dementedkaliber said:
I would like to know what u would consider to be the best course of action. If it is simply "don't allow loli communities because pedophiles could communicate there" then that seems unfair. Do you want to allow remotely sexual pics of anime adults but not anime kids. That's not even including who judges whether a character is a kid (or should it be minor?) and if it's sexual in any way. Who is going to support the artistic expression of such images if not the people that like them? If loli lovers are not allowed to talk freely about their attraction, then ur basically preventing them from having communities. I'm not sure what the consequences u speak of are either. Unless u mean bad PR which i could care less about.

I can make it shorter: It's better if pedophiles letting steam off by fapping to 2D-children than storing it inside until they burst and rape an actual child.

There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.

Oil and nuclear are civilisation saviours. Deal with it.

Apr 22, 2016 12:51 PM

#263

ExTemplar

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9843

DmonHiro said:
Even if it would, there's nothing technically wrong with being a pedophile as long as you don't act on it. If you're a pedophile and you have never touched a child, and will never touch a child, then it's all good.

no one can give such big promises, just wait till they have an opportunity

Apr 22, 2016 7:13 PM

#264

lasterrending

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Oct 2014

697

First, I appreciate you taking time to write out a well-reasoned post instead of acting childish and immature like most of the other posters on this thread. It's refreshing to be able to respond to someone with a brain in their head.

That said, because I'm a sucker for a good debate, I'm going to poke holes in your logic. I hope you don't mind. ;)

Fintan said:
All the arguments are the same as they have been in all these threads, and both sides have argued against them countless times now. The major difference is most the peoples arguments that think masturbating to lolicon hentai isn't pedophilic behavior would never be supported in almost any other environment besides a forum such as this one.

True, but irrelevant. No one's arguing that most people wouldn't see a correlation between lolicon hentai watchers and pedophiles, whether there's a correlation or not. Hell, not even the staunchest supporter of lolicon anime will claim that there's not at least an appearance of a similarity. But reality is not dictated by majority opinion.

Fintan said:
I see a lot of you trying to lead the discussion towards the grey areas of the debate, and using words that take the reality out of the meaning behind them. Are there grey areas? Of course, nothing is black and white, especially regarding a topic like this things are never that simple. I would be stupid and paranoid to think every single person arguing against me or that like lolis is a pedophile, but a large amount of them are.

I'm sure some are. Possibly a significant minority. Possibly a majority. But unless we see some actual numbers to back it up, that's simply an unfounded assumption.

Fintan said:
-The video game/movie violence is NOT a comparison you can make. Also remember that just like molestation/rape, violence and murder has very serious consequences. Weird how people wont deny how characters/people in movies,video games, music, ext influence people... People constantly imitate fashion, personality, and lifestyles, ext. which they saw in movies/video games/music.... That's so obvious cause the majority of those things don't have major consequences, so no one is denying it. Being shown something CAN influence you, saying that's not true is idiotic. I'm not trying to say it's as simple as "a video game with violence will make an innocent kid murder people"... Trying to dumb things down to that level will just keep these conversation meaningless and nonsensical.

So, unlike violence where you need to actually commit the act to be a "murderer" or what have you... Pedophilia doesn't require an act to be a pedophile. It simply is the attraction of children, pre early-pubescent. It's not even really the persons fault, it's just a brain chemistry thing from what we understand. I don't think people should be arrested or anything for simply having these feelings.

I agree 100%. Violence (an action) and pedophilia (a state of mind) are like apples and oranges.

Fintan said:
However, like a schizophrenic or certain other mental illness's there's high risk of harm coming to others around them.

Wait! Stop! You can't distance actions from feelings in one breath and then in the next breath try to imply a correlation without any evidence to back it up.

Pedophilia is defined as a mental illness because it's abnormal, not because it's dangerous. As you rightly pointed out before, it has nothing to do with actions. Yes, there are some pedophiles who rape children, and they need to be dealt with harshly. (Can we bring back castration? Please?) But saying there's a high risk of harm because someone has this mental abnormality is drawing the same comparison between fiction and actions as you just finished arguing against in regards to violence.

Fintan said:
Which is why I very much dislike the belittling and downplaying of pedophilic behavior among people in this community. Without a doubt, them getting off to drawings is the better option to real children being used in pornography or worst case actual rape/molestation. The point is, the denial of the connections between hardcore lolicon hentai and pedophila can't be laughed off or denied.

Depends on what you mean by "connections." As I mentioned before, no one's denying that there's a similarity. They're simply denying that the one necessarily follows from the other.

Fintan said:
Finding a loli character in an anime cute like a parent or any person finds a young kid cute is perfectly normal, liking to see them in skimpy clothing, naked, or being raped is not normal. Hell even just liking most lolis in sexy outfits in anime doesn't 100% mean a person is a pedophile, it's when you're getting off to the real hardcore stuff clearly aimed at pedophiles.

While I don't generally watch the hardcore stuff myself, I still feel I should point out that you're once again simply assuming that people who get excited by anime lolis also get excited by real children, a claim which has still not been proven. The real hardcore stuff is aimed at people who get off to anime lolis. That's the only thing we can say for sure.

Fintan said:
There's nothing productive that will come from these threads, but I just hope more of you can see that you can support artistic freedom without supporting pedophiles and the community they've set up among anime/manga fans.

Ignoring the misuse of the word "pedophile" once again, it depends on what you mean by "support." You can refuse to support certain opinions while still supporting the right for those opinions to be expressed. For instance, I don't like gore in anime, so I won't ever "support" it. But I will still support someone's right to say that anime is better the more blood and guts it shows.

But from your next few statements, it sounds like we're kind of thinking the same thing. We both agree that we shouldn't be banning anything here even if we disagree or don't like it.

Fintan said:
Like I said earlier, I don't think any of it should be illegal or banned. I just simply think people should not belittle the consequences of allowing people in our community to talk so freely about their attraction to children, 2-D or otherwise.

The consequences are that we can have an open discussion about whether there's anything wrong with something that many people find abhorrent. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. Points have been brought up on both sides that make you think. Personally, I like being able to talk freely with people who don't necessarily think or feel the same way I do. And I don't believe anyone's going to go out and rape a child because of what they read on this forum.

(On the other hand, I'll admit I'm kind of looking at this with rose-colored glasses because most of this thread has just been a bunch of name-calling)

Fintan said:
I saw a case recently that is similar to tons of others I've seen where a pedophile was being investigated by the FBI for visiting known sites with child pornography, and while they were unable to find anything on his computer(because obviously a person will be a lot more paranoid and safe when they're risking jail time), but like many others before him he was a little cocky about his lolicon images and their legality. Leaving some of them, or some hardcore hentai/manga around his house.

And there's an example of a loli anime lover who's also a pedophile. No one denies that they exist.

Fintan said:
Not every pedophile can get off to drawings of children, but a lot can and do. It's no different from someone who can get off to hentai and also likes normal porn and women/men.

And not every person who gets off to drawings of children is a pedophile. As has been repeated again and again, cartoons are idealized facsimiles of the real thing. The departure from reality makes them more of what attracts us to them. When was the last time you saw a woman as pretty as a Disney princess? When was the last time you saw a man as handsome as a strong, brave anime hero? For that matter, when was the last time you saw a baby animal that looked as cute as a cartoon baby animal?

So when it comes to sexual attraction, is it so hard to believe that someone can be attracted to an unrealistically sexualized young female anime character and not to a real little girl?

Fintan said:
How can people really not be suspicious of such a large group of people claiming they're only sexually attracted to drawings of children and not the real thing? I'm sure some might actually truthfully be that way, but it's unrealistic to believe that the majority are being truthful.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people being suspicious. It's only natural. As I've already admitted, there is a similarity. And there are certainly true pedophiles who also like anime lolis.

They may very well be the majority. I don't know if that's the case. I just don't think we should be treating that as a foregone conclusion, and blurring the definition between lolicon anime lovers and pedophiles is disingenuous at best.

Fintan said:
None of us can PROVE anything. The only proof is in your own head, and you'll have to learn to live with it. I just hope none of you who are pedophiles harm any children. Get help, recognize your problem.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Apr 22, 2016 8:17 PM

#265

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Dec 2015

428

Keep it at 2D lolis and it's all 大丈夫~♡

TyrelApr 22, 2016 11:10 PM

Apr 22, 2016 8:42 PM

#266

Smartmax

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Fintan said:
None of us can PROVE anything. The only proof is in your own head, and you'll have to learn to live with it. I just hope none of you who are pedophiles harm any children. Get help, recognize your problem.

I understand that I am only scratching the surface of the surface of your argument but I want to add to what lasterrending said about this quote.

If I went up to someone and said 'I am a pedophile and I have raped children', there would be an investigation and I would probably be locked in a prison/mental hospital for quite some time until they 'fixed' me.

If I went up to someone and said 'I am a lolicon', the person would probably respond with, 'what the fuck, that's sick' and leave me alone.

Why?

Because there is a total disconnect in the eyes of the law when it comes to pedophilia and pedophiles.

Pedophilia is a fetish for kids who are generally way under the legal age for sex.

Pedophiles are people who rape kids.

What you suggest here is that all lolicons (people with the fetish of pedophilia) should seek mental help to the same degree as a pedophile (someone who rapes kids). This is not the right course of action. There is a mental abnormality or 'problem' with lolicons, but until someone is hurt, in today's world, no action should be taken. This is why governments have so many covert ops where they take preemptive steps to neutralize problems, which then are leaked and there is an outrage (incidentally this is also the premise of the popular anime Psycho Pass). Learning to live with it is one thing, but asking someone to 'get help' as if they had already locked 10 kids in their mom's basement and groomed them as slaves is really unnesisary, to imply that it should be mandatory is even more so.

In order to convict someone of being a pedophile, you need hard evidence that they are one, hence why your statement 'None of us can PROVE anything.' is somewhat ironic considering you suggest that those with the fetish of pedophilia are on the same level of morality as those who are legally child rapists.

NOTE: I am a lolicon, so whatever I say may be said with considerable bias.

Apr 22, 2016 8:56 PM

#267

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428

Fintan said:

flannan said:

Futas are the worst. There is nothing manly about them, yet they have dicks so large it's useless to compare. That time in futabu when one of the futas came buckets (they actually had a whole lot of buckets full of her semen) would make any man feel inadequate. Or roll on the floor laughing.

1) Do I need to remind you that polygraph is pseudoscience and not admissible in court?
2) Once again,

And anybody who denies it is evil.

Lie detectors have been used in court cases, research a bit before you respond. Also calling it "pseudoscience" is just false, they're not 100% that's why it's up to the judge to take the evidence on case by case basis. That fact is they are accurate the majority of the time when conducted properly and by people who know what they're doing. Saying brain scans and functions are also "pseudoscience" is just laughable.

You can all convince other "lolicons" that you're fine, but I know each of you knows the truth and that you're just simply trying to hide the disgusting truth. I don't think 2d=real life, but nothing is that simple. People who get off to these hentai that have little kids getting raped and fucked are obviously likely to be into real children. The legality of it just gives them an opportunity to speak freely about it without legal action or being outcasts(well more of an outcast).

The only place any of you will win this type of argument is in a forum like this where your own kind is the people you're discussing it with. Also anime fans fear that if this was covered more there innocent anime would be caught up in it, which is understandable. Nothing should be illegal about drawings no matter what they depict, but denying the obviousness of a person getting off to drawings of children being molested also being a pedophile is just disgusting.

Again, I could give to shits what is said here because the rest of society would not agree with any of you. That's what matters, not what is said in your lolicon threads.

I think Fintan may be struggling with some inner loli attraction. It's okay, the community is here for you. And the lolis~♡

But in all seriousness, why are you so focused on a community obsessed with pixels and not instead advocating this advice for admitted paedophiles?

l0li_m0e_ya0iApr 22, 2016 9:46 PM

Apr 22, 2016 9:46 PM

#268

Zekkenshin

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Dec 2012

16220

The point with the violent videogame comparison is that it can be argued that humans have inherent violent urges. Why play a game where you chop off heads and dismember civilians when you can play a puzzle or racing game? There are alternatives, you don't have to play a game that glorifies violence. Admit it, you have violent urges and will gladly mutilate an elderly woman if you could get away with it. Seek help.

On a further note, if video games really are "just for fun", why is it that most do not allow you to harm children? Even in games where the selling point is nigh complete freedom (Elder Scrolls, Fallout), killing a little boy or girl is still off limits. This suggests that people who enjoy murdering children on games must have a specific urge to do so in reality.

Of course, I'm only trying to apply the backwards logic I've so desperately tried to observe in this thread.

ExTamplier said:

DmonHiro said:
Even if it would, there's nothing technically wrong with being a pedophile as long as you don't act on it. If you're a pedophile and you have never touched a child, and will never touch a child, then it's all good.

no one can give such big promises, just wait till they have an opportunity

I definitely can, although I'm not a pedo so this isn't even an issue. I've had that golden opportunity to act dozens of times, yet I never pondered on it because it was never a possibility in my mind. Unfortunately because I met self absorbed, pathological projectors in real life, it's now in the corner of my mind. Not the desire but the awareness that I have the power to do so. Maybe if the white knights stopped pushing "ADMIT UR A PEDO UR A PEDO C'MON UR A PEDO SAY IT PEDO PEDO PEDO" into my face twenty four fucking seven, I wouldn't be as aggressive about standing my ground.

ZekkenshinApr 22, 2016 10:07 PM

Apr 22, 2016 10:41 PM

#269

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Sep 2010

1229

l0li_m0e_ya0i said:
But in all seriousness, why are you so focused on a community obsessed with pixels and not instead advocating this advice for admitted paedophiles?

0bviously, because it's much easier & funny.

kitsune0Apr 22, 2016 10:46 PM

There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.

Oil and nuclear are civilisation saviours. Deal with it.

Apr 23, 2016 5:59 AM

#270

Honey8oy

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Feb 2013

18

I would avoid looking at little cartoon girls

I have no idea how to set a signature

Apr 23, 2016 7:21 AM

#271

GiancarloLS

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Apr 2014

18

The legal psychiatric definition of "pedophile" is if the girl is 13 years old or less, while the man is 60 years old and above. Though that term tends to go unnoticed because of higher crime rates involving young-girls-older-men...

...but for another legit definition, "pedophile" only happens if you have sexual attraction to a HUMAN prepubescent girl. 2D characters are, well, not human.

But all those are for "objective reasons". By "subjective", it's mostly on a case-to-case basis. Then again, to put a rest on this case, it depends if you got a boner on that scene, then you're "subjectively counted" as one.

Apr 23, 2016 8:28 AM

#272

megumi211

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Dec 2015

138

i dont think so, it just makes you a totally hentai, hehe

Apr 23, 2016 8:33 AM

#273

Joy4ever

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Dec 2015

325

urg kind of weird but I watch gintama and sometimes pause at gintoki's naked scene and I'm pretty sure I'm normal so...

“The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages.” -Bansky

Apr 23, 2016 8:42 AM

#274

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Apr 2016

637

Honey8oy said:

I would avoid looking at little cartoon girls

But you're in the UK, when i type loli into google in the US, i don't get that ad at the top.
Your in one of the worst countries for anecdotal evidence. I think only Australia is more strict.

Apr 23, 2016 9:58 AM

#275

Fintan

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Apr 2011

2919

lasterrending said:

The bit we disagreed on, I did not word that as best I could. I still stand by the point of what I said. Not all pedophiles are going molest children, but that doesn't mean they should rely just on their will power. I wasn't saying that they should be forced into therapy, I was saying that them choosing to should not be something that's looked down upon or made public to everyone in the world(added to some list anyone can see). Think about it, these people must struggle with the moral of their attraction to kids(i'd like to hope at least). So maybe a lot of them find loli/hentai to be a safe way to feed those urges. That might be the safest and best way, but it also could be potentially dangerous having all of them group together and be able to openly be proud of their attraction to children(2-d ones in this case, but openly being proud of their sexual attraction to child like figures). I could argue that some or even a lot of those people might be further tempted by all of that, rather then it letting them deal with it in a safer way like therapy. Maybe if they stayed away from it, and sought therapy, that would be the best route. Like we both have already said, none of us know this for sure. I'd be very interested in seeing testing/studies done on it.

Did you see that Stanford article I posted? The top psychologists who deal with mental illness(forget exactly who it was conducted by, but smarter people then us) decided that pedophiles who are able to resist and not follow their urges have what they now call "pedophilia disorder", and are not considered dangerous... Until they act, which to be honest the article seems to portray them as a little bit too trusting in my opinion lol. It goes on to say they now only consider the pedophiles who have acted to be the ones with a technical "mental illness".

I think the psychologists were more trying to create findings where admitted pedophiles who have not committed any crimes could be legally and maybe even socially less stigmatized and prosecuted. Like any disorder, or even if we're just going to call it an attraction/urge, you need to be dedicated and persistent in not succumbing to that weakness. To me, having pornography(even though it's illustrated) of children being raped, literal pedophile fantasies being sold openly in stores in large amounts and being excepted by the anime community as not harmful at all... I'm thinking this can indeed be harmful to these people, who I personally feel need help not more temptation. Like I already said, I don't think anything should be banned... Just not openly sold for profit, and excepted by the community as harmless.

@Smartmax - the above was also a clarification of what you commented about.

@Dementedkaliber - I explain more above, but my course of action would certainly not be to ban anything. My "course of action" would simply be to end the denial of the "loli lovers". The whole community is just based around pedophilic fantasies, all sugar coated and sweet so it appears less disgusting to the rest of us. It still sickens a lot of people, but not if everyone was actually being honest. Yes... I know I can't make people stop being in denial, or force them to be honest lol. I don't really have a course of action as you put it, sorry.

:D

Look at some of the "arguments" against my views, most of which are clearly bias and written by people who "enjoy lolicon"... I've seen the above argument countless times "why are people focusing on this when there's real children being raped in the middle east?!"... There's real children being raped all over the world, and people can focus on anything and everything that is around them. Don't think bringing up something worse will draw attention away from what you're doing forever... It's very clear to me that a lot of this community of people is very scared of a spotlight being shined on them, and I don't really blame them.

Apr 23, 2016 10:00 AM

#276

Illyricus

Offline

Jul 2013

15674

The ability of MALers discussing again, and again and again the loli topic and spawn a lot of pages of it will never cease to amaze me.

Apr 23, 2016 10:40 AM

#277

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Apr 2016

637

Fintan said:

The bit we disagreed on, I did not word that as best I could. I still stand by the point of what I said. Not all pedophiles are going molest children, but that doesn't mean they should rely just on their will power. I wasn't saying that they should be forced into therapy, I was saying that them choosing to should not be something that's looked down upon or made public to everyone in the world(added to some list anyone can see). Think about it, these people must struggle with the moral of their attraction to kids(i'd like to hope at least). So maybe a lot of them find loli/hentai to be a safe way to feed those urges. That might be the safest and best way, but it also could be potentially dangerous having all of them group together and be able to openly be proud of their attraction to children(2-d ones in this case, but openly being proud of their sexual attraction to child like figures). I could argue that some or even a lot of those people might be further tempted by all of that, rather then it letting them deal with it in a safer way like therapy. Maybe if they stayed away from it, and sought therapy, that would be the best route. Like we both have already said, none of us know this for sure. I'd be very interested in seeing testing/studies done on it.

I think the psychologists were more trying to create findings where admitted pedophiles who have not committed any crimes could be legally and maybe even socially less stigmatized and prosecuted. Like any disorder, or even if we're just going to call it an attraction/urge, you need to be dedicated and persistent in not succumbing to that weakness. To me, having pornography(even though it's illustrated) of children being raped, literal pedophile fantasies being sold openly in stores in large amounts and being excepted by the anime community as not harmful at all... I'm thinking this can indeed be harmful to these people, who I personally feel need help not more temptation. Like I already said, I don't think anything should be banned... Just not openly sold for profit, and excepted by the community as harmless.

@Dementedkaliber - I explain more above, but my course of action would certainly not be to ban anything. My "course of action" would simply be to end the denial of the "loli lovers". The whole community is just based around pedophilic fantasies, all sugar coated and sweet so it appears less disgusting to the rest of us. It still sickens a lot of people, but not if everyone was actually being honest. Yes... I know I can't make people stop being in denial, or force them to be honest lol. I don't really have a course of action as you put it, sorry.

First i would like to talk about ur response to lasterrending just a little. U say there is no proof either way to if it's harmful for lolicons to have communities. So why shouldn't it be accepted as harmless until proven otherwise? I can respect ur opinion if u think it shouldn't be allowed because it might be harmful, and won't debate whether that's wrong or not as it is too subjective. But some would like to take the opposite approach of "innocent until proven guilty".
For your reply to me, i completely disagree that if lolicons were "honest" and "admitted" to being pedos it wouldn't disgust the other side anymore. For u it may be true, but i think most of those that hate lolicons do bcuz of the fantasy of sexualized children, not just bcuz they are lying. Proof of this is the way antilolicon threads and posts in them by the OP are worded on forum sites. They don't open up with "i hate lying lolicons" or "their denial disgusts me". They open with "is lolicon for pedos" or "are they pedos" and proceed to call the attraction and material disgusting. This clearly shows they are concerned by the pedophilia and fantasy being depicted, not just lying.

Apr 23, 2016 10:48 AM

#278

ExTemplar

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Nov 2014

9843

Honey8oy said:

I would avoid looking at little cartoon girls

lmao, I have never seen this before.

Illyricus said:
The ability of MALers discussing again, and again and again the loli topic and spawn a lot of pages of it will never cease to amaze me.

It settles down fo r awhile, so you have to wait for a right moment, when anime discussion is starving, before making a thread.

Apr 23, 2016 11:29 AM

#279

lasterrending

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Oct 2014

697

Fintan said:
The bit we disagreed on, I did not word that as best I could. I still stand by the point of what I said. Not all pedophiles are going molest children, but that doesn't mean they should rely just on their will power. I wasn't saying that they should be forced into therapy, I was saying that them choosing to should not be something that's looked down upon or made public to everyone in the world(added to some list anyone can see). Think about it, these people must struggle with the moral of their attraction to kids(i'd like to hope at least). So maybe a lot of them find loli/hentai to be a safe way to feed those urges. That might be the safest and best way, but it also could be potentially dangerous having all of them group together and be able to openly be proud of their attraction to children(2-d ones in this case, but openly being proud of their sexual attraction to child like figures). I could argue that some or even a lot of those people might be further tempted by all of that, rather then it letting them deal with it in a safer way like therapy. Maybe if they stayed away from it, and sought therapy, that would be the best route. Like we both have already said, none of us know this for sure. I'd be very interested in seeing testing/studies done on it.

Did you see that Stanford article I posted? The top psychologists who deal with mental illness(forget exactly who it was conducted by, but smarter people then us) decided that pedophiles who are able to resist and not follow their urges have what they now call "pedophilia disorder", and are not considered dangerous... Until they act, which to be honest the article seems to portray them as a little bit too trusting in my opinion lol. It goes on to say they now only consider the pedophiles who have acted to be the ones with a technical "mental illness".

I think the psychologists were more trying to create findings where admitted pedophiles who have not committed any crimes could be legally and maybe even socially less stigmatized and prosecuted. Like any disorder, or even if we're just going to call it an attraction/urge, you need to be dedicated and persistent in not succumbing to that weakness. To me, having pornography(even though it's illustrated) of children being raped, literal pedophile fantasies being sold openly in stores in large amounts and being excepted by the anime community as not harmful at all... I'm thinking this can indeed be harmful to these people, who I personally feel need help not more temptation. Like I already said, I don't think anything should be banned... Just not openly sold for profit, and excepted by the community as harmless.

@Smartmax - the above was also a clarification of what you commented about.

@Dementedkaliber - I explain more above, but my course of action would certainly not be to ban anything. My "course of action" would simply be to end the denial of the "loli lovers". The whole community is just based around pedophilic fantasies, all sugar coated and sweet so it appears less disgusting to the rest of us. It still sickens a lot of people, but not if everyone was actually being honest. Yes... I know I can't make people stop being in denial, or force them to be honest lol. I don't really have a course of action as you put it, sorry.

:D

Look at some of the "arguments" against my views, most of which are clearly bias and written by people who "enjoy lolicon"... I've seen the above argument countless times "why are people focusing on this when there's real children being raped in the middle east?!"... There's real children being raped all over the world, and people can focus on anything and everything that is around them. Don't think bringing up something worse will draw attention away from what you're doing forever... It's very clear to me that a lot of this community of people is very scared of a spotlight being shined on them, and I don't really blame them.

I still think you're unfairly implying that abnormal = dangerous.

Let me put it another way. I'm going to guess that you're heterosexual, i.e. attracted to women. I'm also going to guess that you've never raped a woman in your life. It's safe to assume that the vast majority of men fall into this category.

Some men are gay, i.e. attracted to men. Most of them have never raped a man.

Some people have pedophilia disorder, i.e. they're attracted to children. That's generally considered an abnormal mental state. That much is not controversial.

But why, then, do we assume that these people are any more likely to commit rape than heterosexual or homosexual men? Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. I haven't seen any evidence one way or another.

So without that evidence, we cannot assume that loli hentai is any more dangerous than regular hentai, or that a community permissive of loli hentai is any more dangerous than one permissive of regular hentai.

It's perfectly fine to state that you don't like it. Call it creepy or disgusting. Hell, I"m not even opposed to you calling people who like it a bunch of perverted freaks. But I'm not sure we should worry about MAL turning into a breeding ground for child molesters because it doesn't outlaw discussion of loli hentai any more than we should worry about MAL turning into a breeding ground for rapists simply because it doesn't outlaw discussion of regular hentai.

Aside from that, I'm mostly in agreement with what you've said. I agree that more pedophiles (or people with pedophilia disorder) should seek professional help, not necessarily because they're dangerous but because they're different. Being different can be tough, especially when it involves something most of society has an averson to. I don't know if this disorder can be "cured" but if not they at least need to find a way to live with it.

And if they do happen to find that they can safely satisfy their urges by watching lolicon anime, great!

Apr 23, 2016 11:32 AM

#280

Fintan

Offline

Apr 2011

2919

Dementedkaliber said:

Fintan said:

The bit we disagreed on, I did not word that as best I could. I still stand by the point of what I said. Not all pedophiles are going molest children, but that doesn't mean they should rely just on their will power. I wasn't saying that they should be forced into therapy, I was saying that them choosing to should not be something that's looked down upon or made public to everyone in the world(added to some list anyone can see). Think about it, these people must struggle with the moral of their attraction to kids(i'd like to hope at least). So maybe a lot of them find loli/hentai to be a safe way to feed those urges. That might be the safest and best way, but it also could be potentially dangerous having all of them group together and be able to openly be proud of their attraction to children(2-d ones in this case, but openly being proud of their sexual attraction to child like figures). I could argue that some or even a lot of those people might be further tempted by all of that, rather then it letting them deal with it in a safer way like therapy. Maybe if they stayed away from it, and sought therapy, that would be the best route. Like we both have already said, none of us know this for sure. I'd be very interested in seeing testing/studies done on it.

I think the psychologists were more trying to create findings where admitted pedophiles who have not committed any crimes could be legally and maybe even socially less stigmatized and prosecuted. Like any disorder, or even if we're just going to call it an attraction/urge, you need to be dedicated and persistent in not succumbing to that weakness. To me, having pornography(even though it's illustrated) of children being raped, literal pedophile fantasies being sold openly in stores in large amounts and being excepted by the anime community as not harmful at all... I'm thinking this can indeed be harmful to these people, who I personally feel need help not more temptation. Like I already said, I don't think anything should be banned... Just not openly sold for profit, and excepted by the community as harmless.

@Dementedkaliber - I explain more above, but my course of action would certainly not be to ban anything. My "course of action" would simply be to end the denial of the "loli lovers". The whole community is just based around pedophilic fantasies, all sugar coated and sweet so it appears less disgusting to the rest of us. It still sickens a lot of people, but not if everyone was actually being honest. Yes... I know I can't make people stop being in denial, or force them to be honest lol. I don't really have a course of action as you put it, sorry.

First i would like to talk about ur response to lasterrending just a little. U say there is no proof either way to if it's harmful for lolicons to have communities. So why shouldn't it be accepted as harmless until proven otherwise? I can respect ur opinion if u think it shouldn't be allowed because it might be harmful, and won't debate whether that's wrong or not as it is too subjective. But some would like to take the opposite approach of "innocent until proven guilty".
For your reply to me, i completely disagree that if lolicons were "honest" and "admitted" to being pedos it wouldn't disgust the other side anymore. For u it may be true, but i think most of those that hate lolicons do bcuz of the fantasy of sexualized children, not just bcuz they are lying. Proof of this is the way antilolicon threads and posts in them by the OP are worded on forum sites. They don't open up with "i hate lying lolicons" or "their denial disgusts me". They open with "is lolicon for pedos" or "are they pedos" and proceed to call the attraction and material disgusting. This clearly shows they are concerned by the pedophilia and fantasy being depicted, not just lying.

I do think the communities are harmful, there's just no rock solid proof I can show to end the debate about it. As for what else you said.... Pedophiles themselves aren't disgusting people if they don't act on their fantasies, but their fantasies are more then just disgusting. See... If a pedophile is refraining from molesting children simply because it's illegal and has consequences like jail ext. they would not be a trustworthy or decent person. If a pedophile refrains because they can acknowledge that those fantasies are disgusting and morbid, then I am more opt to think they are a person who is in touch with reality to be trusted on some level. Admitting you're a pedophile and getting help, should coincide with admitting that the fantasy of molesting a pre pubescent is a horrible thing and should never be done to any child.

@lasterrending - I don't quite agree with that comparison, hetero and homosexuals may be able to rape...but they can also have consensual sex. What pedophiles crave can only be obtained by rape. What I said above also adds a little to what I feel is a "non-risk pedophile"

FintanApr 23, 2016 11:39 AM

Apr 23, 2016 11:58 AM

#281

lasterrending

Offline

Oct 2014

697

Fintan said:
@lasterrending - I don't quite agree with that comparison, hetero and homosexuals may be able to rape...but they can also have consensual sex.

Unless they watch anime, in which case they live in their parents' basement and will never get laid.

I'm joking! I'm joking! Please don't hunt me down and murder me in my sleep.

Apr 23, 2016 12:04 PM

#282

Offline

Sep 2010

1229

lasterrending said:
Unless they watch anime, in which case they live in their parents' basement and will never get laid.

I'm joking! I'm joking! Please don't hunt me down and murder me in my sleep.

Too late, you've already dared to voice something against Saint & Mighty General Pedohunter, so you've deemed a filthy pedophile like me, matter neither if you really are or aren't one nor if you're really are or aren't lolicon.

There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.

Oil and nuclear are civilisation saviours. Deal with it.

Apr 23, 2016 12:04 PM

#283

Rayzer

Offline

Apr 2014

3156

Yes you are.
It's simply Japan's substitute for child porn.

Haters always gonna hate.

Apr 23, 2016 12:09 PM

#284

Offline

Apr 2016

637

Fintan said:

I do think the communities are harmful, there's just no rock solid proof I can show to end the debate about it. As for what else you said.... Pedophiles themselves aren't disgusting people if they don't act on their fantasies, but their fantasies are more then just disgusting. See... If a pedophile is refraining from molesting children simply because it's illegal and has consequences like jail ext. they would not be a trustworthy or decent person. If a pedophile refrains because they can acknowledge that those fantasies are disgusting and morbid, then I am more opt to think they are a person who is in touch with reality to be trusted on some level. Admitting you're a pedophile and getting help, should coincide with admitting that the fantasy of molesting a pre pubescent is a horrible thing and should never be done to any child.

Actually the debate on it being harmful does end, since u have no proof it is harmful, u just have to start it up again after finding proof. Disgusting, not trustworthy, not a decent person. Remind me what this has to do with the discussion of allowing loli communities. We are on the internet, it does not matter if someone is trustworthy bcuz we have no contact with each other. U going to let a lolicon babysit ur kids through skype. Better watch out for cybermolestation.

Apr 23, 2016 2:37 PM

#285

Lobinde

Offline

Oct 2015

3109

Alternate title for this thread:
When SJWs and pedos collide!

LobindeApr 23, 2016 3:09 PM

Apr 23, 2016 2:56 PM

#286

AltoRoark

Offline

Jun 2015

3948

JesseTikka said:
Holy fuck you people are stupid. This thread raises my blood pressure.

Here's a very simple answer for you:
Are you sexually attracted to prepubescent children? If yes, you're a pedophile.

That's all there is to it. Go figure that out.

You aren't by any chance one of those "drawings by definition are not children" kind of people, are you?

Apr 23, 2016 5:35 PM

#287

Offline

Dec 2015

428

JesseTikka said:

AltoRoark said:

You aren't by any chance one of those "drawings by definition are not children" kind of people, are you?

Whether it's a drawing or not is irrelevant. If it represents a child and looks like one and you are aroused by it, then you're probably a pedophile. At least if you are generally more attracted to lolis than older looking characters.

Seeing that 90 percent of anime characters have childlike faces, by your logic, almost everyone in this thread is a pedo. How about this? If you fap to pictures of Jimmy and Mary down the street, you're a pedophile. If you fap to cartoons, send me a friend request~♡

Apr 23, 2016 6:18 PM

#288

Thnx4dafood

Offline

Feb 2014

365

55Snakes said:

BlueKite said:

Unless you proceeded to fap to it

This is the important part, are you sexually attracted lol

^^this

I love loli's and I'm an 19 year old female. I'm definitely not sexually attracted to them, I just like the character design. Can't stand loli hentai tho >.>

Apr 24, 2016 12:19 AM

#289

Offline

Dec 2015

428

JesseTikka said:

l0li_m0e_ya0i said:

Seeing that 90 percent of anime characters have childlike faces, by your logic, almost everyone in this thread is a pedo. How about this? If you fap to pictures of Jimmy and Mary down the street, you're a pedophile. If you fap to cartoons, send me a friend request~♡

That's bullshit and you know it. No one faps to just their faces, it's the body that matters. I don't think any child has boobs the size of bowling balls and asses size Nicki Minaj x 3.
The problem with drawings, though, is that they are very unrealistic. Hence why I said "At least if you are generally more attracted to lolis than older looking characters."
Liking lolis more than other characters is a sign that you are more interested in child-like features, because as you said, 90 % of the characters have child-like faces, so why do you pick lolis over other characters? They look the same, right?

In conclusion, liking lolis does not automatically make you a pedo, but well, there's a chance you are one.

いえ、我々はロリコンだ~!

He-hello, my name is A-a-airi, a g-grade schooler!

Airi is so cute, isn't she? How many girls have you seen in anime that follow her same body type? You just rethought your whole life didn't you?
#Notalllolishavelolibodies

So I guess anyone who dates a super model, flat chested or short woman is a pedophile now? Those are after all child-like features. Liking cartoons in general is childish, so now anyone who watches cartoons is a pedo, right? You see how stupid this is?

Apr 24, 2016 12:30 AM

#290

-Trippwire-

Offline

Jun 2013

1644

Hows is this thread still going? (It's hilarious, but seriously)

Apr 24, 2016 12:52 AM

#291

Offline

Sep 2010

1229

l0li_m0e_ya0i said:
いえ、我々はロリコンだ~!

He-hello, my name is A-a-airi, a g-grade schooler!

Airi is so cute, isn't she? How many girls have you seen in anime that follow her same body type? You just rethought your whole life didn't you?
#Notalllolishavelolibodies

So I guess anyone who dates a super model, flat chested or short woman is a pedophile now? Those are after all child-like features. Liking cartoons in general is childish, so now anyone who watches cartoons is a pedo, right? You see how stupid this is?

By definition, loli is not about age, it's all about body type, that's why we still consider Remilia Scarlet as loli despite her being 5OO years old bloody vampire (and also there is probability that's it's not even her true form but merely disguise = it's possible that her true form is of mature adult woman).
So-called "super-models" are usually just too skinny and believe me, without all the glorious post-production effects (think PhotoShop) they are not that attractive when naked (I knew, I dated one beginner model in college). That is, of course, if you like curves not bones (there are men that like skinny women, obviously).

There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.

Oil and nuclear are civilisation saviours. Deal with it.

Apr 24, 2016 1:33 AM

#292

Offline

Dec 2015

428

JesseTikka said:

l0li_m0e_ya0i said:

いえ、我々はロリコンだ~!

He-hello, my name is A-a-airi, a g-grade schooler!

Airi is so cute, isn't she? How many girls have you seen in anime that follow her same body type? You just rethought your whole life didn't you?
#Notalllolishavelolibodies

So I guess anyone who dates a super model, flat chested or short woman is a pedophile now? Those are after all child-like features. Liking cartoons in general is childish, so now anyone who watches cartoons is a pedo, right? You see how stupid this is?

A loli without the body of one is barely a loli at all. You know what kind of lolis we are talking about, so stop cherry picking. I mean really, it's a fucking cartoon. Only the looks matter, not the character itself or her age.

You're mixing cartoons with reality. The difference in real life is that children and adults are distinguishable just by their facial features. Humans are much more complex than cartoons, and sharing just 1 charasteristic does not make one look like a child.
It's the whole picture that matters.

How rude, I'll have you know I've had cow tits since the tender age of 9~

I don't care about complex humans, I care about lolis (and many other things, but for the sake of this thread) LOLIS! If humans are more complex than cartoons, doesn't that mean that they are...ENTIRELY DIFFERENT?! So, if you like 2d lolis, there is no way you can like a 3d child, because they are so fundamentally different!! Jesse...are you secretly a genius?!

l0li_m0e_ya0iApr 24, 2016 2:11 AM

Apr 24, 2016 1:53 AM

#293