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gswelcome said: depends on who your referring to there is at least 3 different types of people with 3 very different stances on why they dislike/have greivences with the show.I admit Archer coming out of nowhere was a bit of deus ex machina that bothered me a tad but overall this was a terrific episode that I enjoyed. I feel like I really need to bump this to a 10 (though it doesn't deserve it) just to respond to all these people attacking this show unnecessarily. I commented in an earlier episode discussion that I don't understand the hate and i still don't. I'm still going to go with it being some kind of hipster stance in hating something popular. |
| Well now that the dust has settled and I'm nigh finished, reading the comments is proving to be amusing. As an anime only viewer I found this to be an excellent conclusion to the battle albeit Shirou's constant "I'm a fake but that's aight cause I'm going to be a hero of justice" speeches got a bit redundant. Had to laugh when Gilgamesh was telling Shirou to stay put so he could escape the hole. That headshot left me with mixed feelings since I loved him from F/Z but that was undoubtedly ownage. As a whole I found this to be a fun ride filled with a great deal of flash and very addicting. I'm very glad I waited until it was finished airing as weekly waits would have done me in. I feel like something is missing, however, so I'll try to sort my thoughts out properly during the epilogue. |
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| I personally hate Shirou as character so I wasn't looking forward to seeing Gilgamesh lose, he should be the strongest "servant"/fighter in the entire Fate series given his background and weapon arsenal, Shirou or Aracher's abilty [Reality Marble] be damned. To me it felt very forced and almost ridicoulous enough to be funny that he was able to stand on equal grounds with Gilgamesh when Saber has a hard time fighting him, sigh. Typical "main character strength" and "plot armour defense". What I don't understand is why Aracher suddenly appeared, though I was happy to see him it felt a bit Deus Ex Machina as well but ah well. The best part of this entire serie is Saber destroying the "Holy Grail" with Excalibur, thank god that looked as epic as I hoped it to be and the bgm they used was great as well :) |
| Saber would not have a hard time fighting him in 1v1 combat with no sword spam. Gilgamesh specifically wants to avoid that. Gilgamesh spam was made ineffective by faster spam from Shirou. Not hard to see why Shirou stands a chance. |
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boukendesho said: Okay, the enkidu situation doesn't make a lot of sense. 1) isn't it supposedly automatically activated whenever Gil is in danger? 2) even if Shirou isn't divine, it still should do its function and hinder Shirou's movement. F/Z Rider isn't divine either and he's stronger than Shirou. I.e. if Shirou shoots a projectiles that severes Gil's right arm, I can buy that. He should never get close enough to cut down his arm himself. No. He is divine. UBW sword spam can overwhelm Gil and allow him to get close. Plus the whole thing in that fight was that GoB took longer than UBW to produce weapons. |
nocorrasJul 4, 2015 9:51 PM
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| Alexander was supposed to be child of Zeus.He has divinity. Inside UBW,even if he gets tied up hypothetically,he can still swordspam and overwhelm Gil's GOB |
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boukendesho said: 1) Enkidu comes out whenever he wants it to come out it's just like all his other stuff he has to bring it out himself. it's one of him most valued treasures as equaly valuable to him as EAOkay, the enkidu situation doesn't make a lot of sense. 1) isn't it supposedly automatically activated whenever Gil is in danger? 2) I.e. if Shirou shoots a projectiles that severes Gil's right arm, I can buy that. He should never get close enough to cut down his arm himself. 2) spoiiler that shit first of all. do explain how is gill gonna stop him from closing on him when his spam ability had been cancelled out. yes the chains are strong but they loose all their bonuses against shirou. and this is assuming Gil wants to use one of his most beloved treasures on a mongrel faker. right after he just said "i loose the moment i take some lowlife seriously" inb4 "gil's arrogance is a cop out" we're talking about the same guy whose arrogance repelled all the worlds evil. dont try to say gil shouldnt be arrogant when it's convenient because you dont like that it also caused his downfall. |
MaloghurstJul 4, 2015 10:04 PM
Forgetfulness said: Gilgamesh is not skilled at swordsmanship lol so unskilled he |
InsertanamehereJul 5, 2015 7:39 AM
Insertanamehere said: inb4 UBW Shirou is better at using swords than Fate shirou Saber's swordskills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Archer's swordskills > UBW!Shirou's swordskills >>> Gil's swordskills > Fate!Shirou's (traced) swordskills >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fate!Shirou's (untraced) swordskills |
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Insertanamehere said: Forgetfulness said: Gilgamesh is not skilled at swordsmanship lol so unskilled he He is. That said Gil IS skilled more than UBW Shirou, he is just being overwhelmed and has no way to adapt to entirely different fight styles each different hero would have for each NP. Its less of "lol I don't know how to use those mongrel weapons" and more "lolwtf is going on I can't do shit". |
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Insertanamehere said: Then what was the talk about Shirou becoming better as the battle against Archer went on? Cosmetics? It even outright talks about how Shirou uses the weapons ("the boy who finally had decent skills went back to not using them"), not just about "becoming faster at projection". Also since he can control multiple weapons at the same time, does he not get the skill of all of them inside the RM? (which makes it more powerful the more weapons he got stored) |
Grey-ZoneJul 5, 2015 11:42 AM
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| Projection skills "Then my projection shouldn't be the only thing you got from me. That face. Seeing that nasty face of yours, you saw it too, Emiya Shirou?" No? Just the ones he picks up, what use would it be having the skills to wield a halberd when he's wielding a longsword? |
| Its more along the lines of "lol wth is happening here" rather than Shirou suddenly developing swordskills which are better than Gil suddenly despite his projections.Gil never really got a chance to maintain his calm.Atleast this is my interpretation if you include Fate route Gil and his CQC skills. |
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Insertanamehere said: Projection skills "Then my projection shouldn't be the only thing you got from me. That face. Seeing that nasty face of yours, you saw it too, Emiya Shirou?" No? Just the ones he picks up, what use would it be having the skills to wield a halberd when he's wielding a longsword? So you are saying "Shirou went back to using worse projection magic" is what Archer was talking about in Answer? "Although he has absorbed his combat skill, his techniques are now as clumsy as an amateur's again." |
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| Ok, if we say it means combat skill in the actual sense and not in the sense of combat via projection magic (since you know he's a combat focused mage and all) then that skill is irrelevant to the comparison anyway, since Shirou with Caliburn>Shirou with some random swords from UBW unless said person happened to be a better swordsman than Saber which is unlikely at best. |
Insertanamehere said: Ok, if we say it means combat skill in the actual sense and not in the sense of combat via projection magic (since you know he's a combat focused mage and all) then that skill is irrelevant to the comparison anyway, since Shirou with Caliburn>Shirou with some random swords from UBW unless said person happened to be a better swordsman than Saber which is unlikely at best. What are you basing it on? Where is the proof that the projection-based swordskills make up more of Shirou's total swordskills than the EMIYA-based swordskills? We don't even know how much of the original wielders' abilities Shirou and Archer are able to reproduce from the NPs. It's probably much lower than the original's because otherwise Shirou/Archer could outright beat any of the originals (aside from those with divine constructs) who don't use their NP immidietly, by mutually destroying the NPs leaving the original without any weapon to defend themselves. It's the reason why Shirou says "he is no match against those who master a NP", because he is not able to completely reproduce their skills. |
Grey-ZoneJul 5, 2015 12:59 PM
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| Because Archer isn't that skilled at CQC himself, to the level of renowned HS's. And of course it isn't all of them. |
| Because Archer himself isn't that good in CQC when compared to other servants.His versatility(read UBW stored weapons ) makes up for it most of the time |
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laidellent said: Because Archer himself isn't that good in CQC when compared to other servants.His versatility(read UBW stored weapons ) makes up for it most of the time He's probably still better than Gilgamesh though. Also was Gil even attacking in melee there? The only thing that suggest it is the word "swung". But that is just the translation. There was no mention that any of the two closed the distance of 4 meters or that Gil "took out a weapon" before Merodach. So if he really attack by melee wouldn't he STILL hold Ea in his hand? I think he simply used his easy-mode Gate of Babylon here and Shirou blocked a few attacks with Caliburn until Gil either melee attacked with Merodach or GoBed it at Shirou. |
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| "Saber distances herself and glares at the sword in her enemy's hand." "As soon as Saber defends against it, the man is holding yet another sword." hmmmm what could these mean also http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2098/57-F14-06-087.jpg handles outward instead of blades |
| Oh, so he was still holding that sword in his left hand while using Ea? Is Excalibur "stronger" than Caliburn? If so, then Gilgamesh was using a demonic sword on the level of Excalibur, i.e. it's stronger than Caliburn. The fact that Caliburn gets stronger when Saber uses it together with him, shows that projection is only able to reproduce a part of the owner's abilities. I really think the combat skills from EMIYA still makes a difference. But at least it really seems to be true that Gil didn't use swordspam even once in the fight... the way Saber acted as if it was their first fight is probably one of the bigger inconsistencies to Fate/Zero. |
Grey-ZoneJul 5, 2015 2:49 PM
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Grey-Zone said: Oh, so he was still holding that sword in his left hand while using Ea? p wat Is Excalibur "stronger" than Caliburn? If so, then Gilgamesh was using a demonic sword on the level of Excalibur, i.e. it's stronger than Caliburn. Invisible Air up till vs.Ea The fact that Caliburn gets stronger when Saber uses it together with him, shows that projection is only able to reproduce a part of the owner's abilities. I really think the combat skills from EMIYA still makes a difference. In what? But at least it really seems to be true that Gil didn't use swordspam even once in the fight... the way Saber acted as if it was their first fight is probably one of the bigger inconsistencies to Fate/Zero. She never "fought" him before, she just encountered him and he shittalked her then Kiritsugu made her blow up the grail. But F/Z is a slightly divergent universe from the Fourth Holy Grail war that happened before the F/SN VN anyway. |
| "Slightly different worlds,bruh" lolNasu |
 Time for the beach episode! |
NoobHunterDJul 5, 2015 6:12 PM
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| I thought that fight was pretty damn awesome! And the EVA crap was pretty funny. It got a chuckle from me. also that headshot was pretty badass. Good bye Archer and Saber! Oh a bonus episode. cool! |
| Be sure to message me if you quoted me and want me to respond! Just give me a link to the forum, because usually I leave my comment, then leave the forum. |
| I liked it for the most part, I guess Shirou's UBW speech felt kind of off to me and his delivery of the "I hope you have enough swords in stock, King of Heroes" line wasn't as cool as in the VN. But, overall I liked this episode. The scenes where he and Gil fight were kind of excessive, though. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Inquisitor said: feeling off is kinbd of how many of the big moments of UBW felt throuought this anime. how the scenes were executed were just....they didnt realy feel right like the saber/rin contract scene..it kind of just happened no real tension. back to back...just kind of..happened.I liked it for the most part, I guess Shirou's UBW speech felt kind of off to me and his delivery of the "I hope you have enough swords in stock, King of Heroes" line wasn't as cool as in the VN. But, overall I liked this episode. The scenes where he and Gil fight were kind of excessive, though. |
Maloghurst said: insan3Inquisitor said: feeling off is kinbd of how many of the big moments of UBW felt throuought this anime. how the scenes were executed were just....they didnt realy feel right like the saber/rin contract scene..it kind of just happened no real tension. back to back...just kind of..happened.I liked it for the most part, I guess Shirou's UBW speech felt kind of off to me and his delivery of the "I hope you have enough swords in stock, King of Heroes" line wasn't as cool as in the VN. But, overall I liked this episode. The scenes where he and Gil fight were kind of excessive, though. Yeah, kind of like they went through the motions. Like there was no real passion put into them. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Magic steroids work every time. |
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| Best episode. I was very satisfied. Upped a 7 rated anime to an 8. |
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| Shriou is a boss, Gil is a career jobber. It was Gil's job to put Shirou over and he did. |
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| Well basically Shirou had all the weapons stored in UBW after seeing Archers UBW and Gils NPS which he used within the route and things and UBW, after being casted, is a perfect counter to GOB, provided it meets certain conditions. Gil let him cast is because "lol mongrel can't take you seriously". Now some people say he's bad at melee and that's why he lost, but this isn't actually true at all since he's decent if not outright good at melee fighting, but what happened is Shirou attacked him with his NPs from UBW from the moment it was casted, forcing Gil to break Shirous NP's with their originals (therefore also breaking the originals) and he didn't relent (Shirou notes he'd died in an instant if he relents for even a second) so Gil couldn't counter attack, and when he attempted to enter melee with an NP Shirou would reel in a copy and destroy both to keep him from doing so. They didn't engage in sword fighting and Shirou didn't stand around without attacking and/or fly up in the air on Rho Aias and fall about 50 feet without breaking his legs. He also didn't don his armour because he lost his cool and panicked, reaching for Ea, leading to Shirou cutting his arm off blablabla and therefore he lost. |
InsertanamehereJul 31, 2015 2:53 PM
| You asked what happened in the source and how he actually legitimately beat Gil, didn't you? Well there you go. |
| In addition to what Insert said, the trick is in Unlimited Blade Works. While Gil has to pull out his weapons from Gate of Babylon, Shirou's weapons are already there. Therefore, UBW is faster than GoB, and it provides Shirou with the ability to press Gilgamesh, forcing the destruction of both weapons. Same However, if Shirou slowed down his attacks even a little, he would've died. And actually they were locked in melee, with Shirou, due to the speed he could reel in weapons, forcing Gilgamesh to break both his (original) NP and Shirou's. That way, when Gil reached for Ea, Shirou could immediatelly react and cut off his hand to prevent Gil from using it. |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
Skalios said: opfor3 said: Meh, still don't like it but better than the anime version of the fight I guess, at least he's not better than Hercules there and it makes actual sense. Lol about that... Stop. People need to stop spreading these bad memes like "gil is bad at melee" or Stupid things like "shirou is servant level and/or can kill servants" is inaccurate and you should stop spouting these non-facts. He will certainly never be at the level of Heracles. |
| Guys, it's a classic case of "character i don't like has beaten a character i like". The show gave logical reasons to why Shirou was able to defeat Gil but we just can't have that because "Shirou is shit". And you can't really fully blame them on that, to be perfectly honest. THIS was the guy who defeated Gil. This was how he was depicted, not only from just a couple of episodes prior, but from the very start of the show. ufo really fucked up on that front. |
astroprogsJul 31, 2015 4:14 PM
| Well if you want to talk about foreshadowing, his thing is foreshadowed ish. Non subtle hinting at something, at least. |
| Transitive property always works. |
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Insertanamehere said: wait who are you guys talking about for the foreshadowing? because a lot of the foreshadowing in this series felt like it was shoved down your throat worst than F/Z flat out spoon feeding you the final fight in the first episode.Well if you want to talk about foreshadowing, his thing is foreshadowed ish. Non subtle hinting at something, at least. |
| They wouldn't spend time talking about how amazing his stepping is for no reason whatsoever, is what I mean. It's a kind of in-your-face-way of saying PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PERSON nocorras said: Transitive property always works. er u wot m8 |
Forgetfulness said: Maloghurst said: We're talking about Kuzuki, and I'm assuming he's referring to the fact that Saber was like "his breathing is exceptionally composed" or something along those lines when they visited the schoolwait who are you guys talking about for the foreshadowing? because a lot of the foreshadowing in this series felt like it was shoved down your throat worst than F/Z flat out spoon feeding you the final fight in the first episode. Insertanamehere said: oh yea....the only reason why i get people missing that part is because it's a dialogue episode and obviously people can't be bothered to pay attention to dialogue. the shit with rider on the other hand should have clicked with people.....They wouldn't spend time talking about how amazing his stepping is for no reason whatsoever, is what I mean. It's a kind of in-your-face-way of saying PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PERSON nocorras said: Transitive property always works. er u wot m8 |
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