My Youth Romantic Comedy Is Wrong, As I Expected (light novel)
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Jun 19, 2015 9:22 AM
#251
People always hate some characters just because they can't understand them or can't read between the lines behind their action. -> Major is different taste :3 |
Jun 19, 2015 9:23 AM
#252
Jun 19, 2015 9:30 AM
#253
Cashdax said: This series is getting a little too hard to swallow lol spitters are quitters |
Jun 19, 2015 9:56 AM
#254
_Charl said: idiotrobot69 said: since her 1st appearance, I never like haruno, and this season is just amplify the hate even more, seriously what's the deal with this girl? She cares about her sister and she doesn't like her sister being dependant. well maybe..but I dont even care whatever her reasons anymore, because to be honest she's like the archtypes I hate the most in anime/manga, especially her tone of speaking, god that annoyed me the most, so yeah I think even when I know the oh-so-sweet reason she has, I probably still wont like her |
Jun 19, 2015 9:57 AM
#256
appu1232 said: ichii_1 said: By DaredevilGR from Kissanime -The 4 last paragraphs are the whole juice. Everything else is complimentary (for TL;DR people). I'd like to ask everyone to look paragraph 4 if they don't wish to read the whole thing. Its something very important that took me years to realise and I think it would be very helpful for all of you. I also think its the essense of the anime itself.- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pretty straightforward episode so I will limit myself analyzing the only "deep thing" I found, which is of course the whole talk about genuity, which contains Haruno's and Yukino's mother interventions. The thing is, there is a significant difference between something deep and something complicated. Up until now, we faced deep thoughts/ideas/etc, but at this episode the whole ruckus is caused by complications and confusion. Probably the reason it took me so much time to figure things out. Now below are listed some very important lines to keep in mind. "It would appear she trusts you a fair bit" - Haruno {EpStart] "I'm not the trustworthy type" - Hikigaya {EpStart} "Its actually not trust, but something more sinister" - Haruno {EpStart} "If you continue to spend time and grow with someone, you'll gradually understand them" - Sensei {EpMid} "I much prefer the old Yukino" - Haruno {EpMid} "Because it was all new to me and because I'd never experienced anything like it, I thought that I just wasn't used to it" - Hikigaya {EpMid} (***) "True to herself, true to myself, we all have our own personal image that's dictated by others, one thats always off the mark. We wish to remain true to ourselves, but who gets to decide who we are as people? "Where can we find our true selves?" - Hikigaya {EpEnd} "There's something I want, but I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I don't play fair, so I can only come up with one answer. But I'm sure that's not the answer expected of me. Why is it that what I want and what's expected of me are so similar, yet so different. In truth a lie would be good enough." - Yui {EpEnd} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1)By saying there is no trust, Haruno implies that the three of them aren't honest to each other and therefore "act". Considering Yukino's newly found feelings, Yuigahama's diplomatic stance and Hachiman's apathy, she is not wrong. But essentially she is (more of that later). The sinister part is that in one sense, they forced that genuine relationship to the only people they knew. Think about it the other way. All three of them had only each other to choose to form a genuine relationship. Just because of this, someone can think that the choice itself is so limited that its not a choice, but a forced agreement. Hachiman avoided thinking that way, because he could not understand his newfound situation that well to doom it as non genuine. 2)However, as the great sensei said,(look above), genuine relationships are not made overnight. By saying they want a genuine relationship (episode 8) doesn't mean they get to have a genuine relationship that night, but work to achieve that. Its not strange that they still haven't reach that point. Sensei is saying exactly that. Is it wrong that they are friendly to each other? Is it wrong that they are considerate to their words and actions? Is it wrong to start forcing a good relationship on themselves? Well, it depends. If you raise a fake relationship and feed it with the above, there is no good to be gained. But if you move together, on a common axis, with the goal of achieving something genuine, then those "lies" may very well lead you to the real thing you seek. 3)Haruno is stack. I am certain that most of you felt what she said was true, but at the same time wrong. Like teasing a puppey for not being a full grown dog. Its obvious from the moment she tries to create a ruckus when she says Hayato recieved chocolate from Yukino once. When she fails she is truly annoyed and then proceeds to hurt their relationship like the bad guy in a movie. She is not saying something false, but again how can you blame them for not having a genuine relationship, when they are actively building it. I think she enjoys drama, teasing people for their insecurity and to test them to see whether their relationships are concrete or not, expecting and wishing at the same time that they aren't. Perhaps she is doing all this to escape from herself. Perhaps she just enjoys it. We'll see. 4)We have our own idea of ourselves and others think of us in their own way. Although many of them think of us wrong and we wish to remain true to ourselves, who decides who we really are? Do we truly choose to be who we are? Do others decide through their strength in numbers who we are? Is the most usual opinion of who we are the one that wins even if it is not our own? This is what Hikigaya implies. But there is something more. Something deeper. Is even our opinion our own? Think about it. Think about yourself and think about seeking something genuine. A genuine thing is unaffected by fakes and lies. Is your self unaffected? Is your self pure? Have you not been affected by school or family or even slightest thing that came in touch with you? If I was born in USA instead of Greece, could I say that I would be exactly the same? Of course not. Everything in this world affects us to a point that if you add every little influence, our own self is partially defined by our surroundings. Being a loner doesn't save you from it neither being closed in your house does. This is why the question "does something genuine exist?" comes up. Since we aren't pure, we aren't genuine to our core, can we have something genuine? This is the mindset of Haruno/Hayato/Hikigaya/Yukino/etc. Remember how in episode 8 Hikigaya said "I know this is impossible". They are stack in a loop doubting whether they truly want or have or even are capable of something because they realise that their self might actually be, not their real self, since they (and thus their thoughts) are affected by so many things. So they are lost and confused. They don't lack understanding (not in this episode). But, as a veteran who suffered a lot from those emotions, I have to ask you. Do you think that thats the case? Do you think we all are fakes? Do you want to think that? This is a life lesson I learnt alone after years of struggle. When you lack knoweldge, dig deep and find it, when you are confused, set foot and define it. Of course the world will affect you, of course you can't be purely what you were borned. People are afraid of being slaves to their emotions and they fall in the trap to become slaves to their logic. But logic is not something concrete and so isn't reality. Society itself is a lie. No god will punish us if we kill someone or disobey it. But we don't, because we chose to believe in a lie that provides us the guarantee of survival and so that lie grew to be our reality. Reality would be to fight for our survival every day in a harsh enviroment. Reality would be that philosophy, entertainment, education that have nothing to do about survival are useless. Those things only give value to survival. This is why we humans have and need our emotions. It doesn't matter what the others think of you, or what you think might affect yourself by something else. Reality itself doesn't even matter. The idea that dictates you what you can't do because it's not reasonable should not affect you. If you are confused and stack on a loop wondering who you are, stop thinking and define who you are. Take a piece of paper, write down what you want, what makes you happy, what makes you angry and bit by bit define who you want to be. Our self is not preset by nature. Its something we build. Stop searching something that doesn't exist and start building it yourself or society will build it for you. That's what Haruno can't understand. Thats what makes her angry and tries to destroy their relationship by chopping bits here and there hoping for it to fall like a Jenga tower. But its useless. They may not have that genuine thing yet, but they wish for it, fight for it and thats all it takes for something genuine to be built. Time and dedication. I close by giving you Yui's last line: "In truth a lie would be good enough." That is very beautifully written. I hope others take the time to read that because the original poster of that surely took a good chunk of their time thinking and writing about that. The topic of something genuine is very broad and characters like Yukino, Haruno, and 8man seem to struggle to define it, yet they seek it. Yui seems to understand that no one is completely genuine to the core, so that explains her last line "In truth a lie would be good enough." Not sure what the lie will be. Surely something to do with her feelings but I guess we'll have to wait and see. This episode seems to make everyone even more confused so I don't think there needs to be so much disagreement in this thread. It should be more of a sharing of opinions on what is going on since none of us really have enough evidence to prove our own theories right. Not an LN reader, and not really understanding what's been happening in the show recently. I did read through the entire post, but I still don't quite understand it. I get that the relationship that Hachiman, Yui and Yukino have right now isn't exactly the genuine relationship that Hachiman was asking for in episode 8. I understand it is sadly due to all three of them still hiding their thoughts and feelings for and about one another from the other two. I assume the "a lie would be good enough" that Yui was talking about was more in regards to her own situation. She can see that Hachiman and Yukino seem to have feelings for one another, and yet in order to maintain the status quo, at least so she won't be left in the dust, she seems to be lying to everyone around them by pretending not to see this. This could be the "psudo-genuine" that Haruno picked up from her in particular. For Hachiman, he stated his desire for the genuine, and yet he acts like he rejects the genuine feelings/goodwill shown to him by others as something else. However, during this episode, when Haruno spilled the beans on Yukino's past with Hayama (before Hayama spoiled her fun by saying that she gave chocolate to BOTH of them), I'm assuming that she got a reaction from Hachiman (I'm not quite sure, because he always squints his eyes like that anyways), which would show that he isn't as "not bothered" by the revelation between Yukino and Hayama as he would make himself out to be. Hence, his current status quo with Yukino may be interpreted by Haruno as "not genuine"? In Yukino's case, I....... honestly have no idea..... I was assuming her not being genuine would have something to do with her being "dependent on Hachiman" and yet putting up a front and not showing it, but I can't be sure this would be what Haruno would observe. She did see a reaction from Yukino when Orimoto had that chat with Hachiman about giving him chocolates (by the way, I also think the Handyman has the hots for Orimoto, judging by how they animated his reaction), but what conclusion she would glean from said reaction is beyond me right now. If Haruno was in actual fact observing the three of them and making her observations known at the end of the Valentines day event, I can understand why the three of them looked so distraught afterwards (since she hit the nail on the head with the "psudo-genuine" observation). What I don't understand is WHY she would make said observation to the three of them. Haruno stated that she much preferred the old Yukino. Personally I believe the old Yukino was not so much dependent of Haruno as aspired to follow in her footsteps. In a sense, Yukino idolized her elder sister for being able to do everything that she could do back then. She has now turned her eyes towards Hachiman instead. Does this mean that Haruno preferred the Yukino who was chasing after her? Is her observation, along with telling Hachiman how he's now boring, her personal declaration of war towards Hachiman and warning that she is out to destroy their happy little Club? Is her tattle to Yuki-mom the first step in her revenge towards Hachiman for stealing her sister's attention, and towards Yukino for her wandering eyes? If she truly wanted the Club to realize the true meaning of something genuine, what was the point in calling in the Yuki-mom anyway? Sorry for rambling. I'm pretty confused by what happened this episode. I kind of get the feeling that Orimoto is kinda into Hachiman now, which sparked off something in several of the girls hearts (I noticed reactions from Yui, Yukiino, Iroha AND Kawasaki), though it may well just be her "friendly" disposition. I laughed at Iroha's pseudo-rejection ending with a "Better luck next time.". She clearly prefers Hachiman, and is using Hayama as an excuse (and also because its fun to mess with Yumiko it seems). Nothing seems to have changed with Tobe and Ebina, though I'm really surprised that she let slip her BL preference there with the Hachiman/Hayama pairing. Wasn't that exactly what she was trying to hide from her current clique? The lighthearted moments were nice and all, but the other stuff is mostly confusing. |
L-RyoshiJun 19, 2015 10:03 AM
HESTIAAPPROVES |
Jun 19, 2015 10:15 AM
#257
Ok, ok, ok...rant incoming. What the HELL Haruno? Like for real? We have 10 straight episodes of some Sakurasou level teen drama and these idiots finally fix up, then YOUUUUUUUUU come along and mix up the pot? Throw the chemical X in there? Gadamn it! What is her major malfunction? Who's side is she even on? Cause it's clearly not Yukino. I mean yeah Yui feels bad cause Yukino is winning cuteness points and getting closer to him. But seriously, after they went through hell to patch up their relationships, this woman comes along and sows a seed of discontent? Like, who the HELL is she to decide how their lives should be? I mean, when you look at it overall it makes sense. The love triangle was active for some time. 8man's confession set of a chain reaction that messed everything up. People (magically, cause it's anime) see that Yukino is depending on 8man, hence why she was so destroyed by him shattering her expectations. BE THAT AS IT MAY, when these tweeny fools finally cry and makeup, in a legit feels episode, along comes big bad wolf Haruno; oh what's that, my sister's semi happy? We can't have that. *FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO*: blows the sand castle down with her big bad breath. I mean seriously, ANYONE could see that the love triangle is there. 8man himself said that he notices Yui's advances on him, back in s1 during the festival episode. And in this ep he was saying to Yukino 'don't get flustered'. There was hella tension without big bad Haruno coming along and shitting on their conflakes. I mean like why. Shit. Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. I'm done. Good episode. This ending better be dramatic as shit after all this nonsense. The parallels with Haganai are astonishing. |
JusticeSoulTunaJun 19, 2015 10:27 AM
--- Twitter: @JusticeSoulTuna Wordpress: JusticeSoulTuna Youtube: JusticeSoulTuna I'm literally JST everywhere |
Jun 19, 2015 10:22 AM
#259
appu1232 said: I mean I can't really prove it to you but this seems like the most realistic reason why Haruno wanted to know her career path and how she was able to realize what she chose just based on hearing that she told 8man. The fact that Haruno would envy's Yukino seems out of the blue to me. Not really. The hints have been there the whole time, but the writer has been clever in balancing things so on the whole it could seem like she was trying to help Yukino. But once we begin to unravel that nothing Haruno has said is true, then the facade fails away and "envious" Haruno best fits the facts. What lies? 1) Yukino is too dependent. Where? She is a high school student who is capable of living on her own, she cooks her own meals and handles her affairs while getting top scores at school. She had earned the trust of her mother to allow her to do this at fifteen. 2) They all get jealous and avoid her. We have no evidence that Yukino was the cause of this. Yukino can be friends with Hachiman, she can be friends with Yui, her superlative skills may isolate her somewhat from most people, but this would be because of "respect" not "jealousy". We also see that when Yukino lets her guard down she is actually a very sweet, helpful person. So here's the question. Why do you think she has her guard up; more to the point who is the person she MOST has her guard up against? Who is constantly imposing herself on Yukino at Yukino's school? Don't people find this extremely bizarre, do we think she was different when Yukino was an elementary student? 3) That something wrong is lurking behind Yukino's decisions. Where has any evidence of that ever been shown? She is able to speak directly with her mother, showing that Yukino has an earnest personality. She also said that she would explain her career path to her, which means that she has a reason and had made her own decision on the matter. Her mother obviously trusts Yukino enough that just Yukino's assurances alone were enough to allow the mother to leave Yukino by herself. Don't people find it odd to what efforts Haruno went fishing about for Yukino's declsion? Really, what business is it of hers? What sort of person calls out her sister's friends and tries to pump them for information (she did the same thing to find out that Yukino was thinking about a 4 year school). That Yukino told Hachiman only told Haruno that Yukino trusts Hachiman in a way she doesn't trust Haruno. And for good reason considering that Haruno went and told her mother something that cause the mother worry. As for the envy, hasn't anyone noticed that whenever Haruno learns something about Yukino she immediately puts the most negative spin on it? And then TELLS everyone? That is a catty girl move, something only jealousy can explain. On a side note, this story is really reminding of the brilliant Silverberg novel "Dying Inside" (top 20 SF novel of all time, not kidding, it really is brilliant). In the story the MC is a telepath, but being such a "superman" doesn't make him happy, indeed it makes him miserable, and he can only achieve happiness by losing this ability. Hachiman is the MC. His needing to learn the truth of that novel to be able to move on. |
Takuan_SohoJun 19, 2015 10:28 AM
Jun 19, 2015 10:26 AM
#260
Damn Haruno cant you just let them be happy for just a little while?? Loved the episode!<3 Sad the next is the last one :c Nikodead said: Case closed LoL Yandere Yui xD |
Jun 19, 2015 10:31 AM
#261
Takuan_Soho said: appu1232 said: I mean I can't really prove it to you but this seems like the most realistic reason why Haruno wanted to know her career path and how she was able to realize what she chose just based on hearing that she told 8man. The fact that Haruno would envy's Yukino seems out of the blue to me. Not really. The hints have been there the whole time, but the writer has been clever in balancing things so on the whole it could seem like she was trying to help Yukino. But once we begin to unravel that nothing Haruno has said is true, then the facade fails away and "envious" Haruno best fits the facts. What lies? 1) Yukino is too dependent. Where? She is a high school student who is capable of living on her own, she cooks her own meals and handles her affairs while getting top scores at school. She had earned the trust of her mother to allow her to do this at fifteen. 2) They all get jealous and avoid her. We have no evidence that Yukino was the cause of this. Yukino can be friends with Hachiman, she can be friends with Yui, her superlative skills may isolate her somewhat from most people, but this would be because of "respect" not "jealousy". We also see that when Yukino lets her guard down she is actually a very sweet, helpful person. So here's the question. Why do you think she has her guard up; more to the point who is the person she MOST has her guard up against? Who is constantly imposing herself on Yukino at Yukino's school? Don't people find this extremely bizarre, do we think she was different when Yukino was an elementary student? 3) That something wrong is lurking behind Yukino's decisions. Where has any evidence of that ever been shown? She is able to speak directly with her mother, showing that Yukino has an earnest personality. She also said that she would explain her career path to her, which means that she has a reason and had made her own decision on the matter. Her mother obviously trusts Yukino enough that just Yukino's assurances alone were enough to allow the mother to leave Yukino by herself. Don't people find it odd to what efforts Haruno went fishing about for Yukino's declsion? Really, what business is it of hers? What sort of person calls out her sister's friends and tries to pump them for information (she did the same thing to find out that Yukino was thinking about a 4 year school). That Yukino told Hachiman only told Haruno that Yukino trusts Hachiman in a way she doesn't trust Haruno. And for good reason considering that Haruno went and told her mother something that cause the mother worry. As for the envy, hasn't anyone noticed that whenever Haruno learns something about Yukino she immediately puts the most negative spin on it? And then TELLS everyone? That is a catty girl move, something only jealousy can explain. On a side note, this story is really reminding of the brilliant Silverberg novel "Dying Inside" (top 20 SF novel of all time, not kidding, it really is brilliant). In the story the MC is a telepath, but being such a "superman" doesn't make him happy, indeed it makes him miserable, and he can only achieve happiness by losing this ability. Hachiman is the MC. His needing to learn the truth of that novel to be able to move on. True say man (or girl, if you're a girl.) Haruno acts all smart but she's the goddamn snake in the garden. I mean, when Yukino said she's doing Literary Arts in the nurse's room, and Yui was at the door: of COURSE Yui probably heard/saw everything. It's easy to see that Yui's getting beaten down now that Yukino's monolithic presence eclipses even the romance department. This is why I said AGAIN that the drama was real WITHOUT Haruno's slimy bullshit |
--- Twitter: @JusticeSoulTuna Wordpress: JusticeSoulTuna Youtube: JusticeSoulTuna I'm literally JST everywhere |
Jun 19, 2015 10:34 AM
#262
ShiroAki1997 said: Damn Haruno cant you just let them be happy for just a little while?? Loved the episode!<3 Sad the next is the last one :c Nikodead said: Case closed LoL Yandere Yui xD Please give Yukino chances, Gahama-san. |
Jun 19, 2015 10:37 AM
#263
Nikodead said: Case closed This ain't School Days. haha |
Jun 19, 2015 10:39 AM
#264
Wow cool episode. I think this episode is a spoiler to volume 11, because I saw the illustration about Saki vs Miura. Well that explains Yui's sad face in the cover, she noticed the love rivals appearing everywhere. Iroha, Orimoto, and Yukino is getting Hachiman far faster than Yui. Also that preview... could it be that Yui is giving up on Hachiman? She realized that she's not playing fair (which was brought up by Yukino) and now she's giving up? The sad face, giving up, noticing love triangle. Is this how Orgairu will end? With the most depressed one is Yui? Damn... I feel bad for her. |
Jun 19, 2015 10:41 AM
#265
Jun 19, 2015 10:41 AM
#266
I really hope this anime ends with 8man pulling a Batman on Haruno. Because for real, they did all that bs just to patch up their big dumb tweeny friendship and Haruno just steps on it. But, in reality that probably won't happen. Probably some confessions and awkwardness, and Yui giving up just because Yukino's winning due to plot armor (which i think is a bit weak of Yui, to give up so easily). Christ almighty Oregairu 2, must you torment me to the VERY END? haha. :p |
--- Twitter: @JusticeSoulTuna Wordpress: JusticeSoulTuna Youtube: JusticeSoulTuna I'm literally JST everywhere |
Jun 19, 2015 10:46 AM
#267
JusticeSoulTuna said: Christ almighty Oregairu 2, must you torment me to the VERY END? haha. :p My guess is that the torment will go even past the end :-) |
Jun 19, 2015 10:49 AM
#268
Takuan_Soho said: JusticeSoulTuna said: Christ almighty Oregairu 2, must you torment me to the VERY END? haha. :p My guess is that the torment will go even past the end :-) Haha, maybe. I dunno, this anime is a solid 9 for me, close to a 10 if it really hits the right note. But this incident with Haruno got me SO mad. Like wow |
--- Twitter: @JusticeSoulTuna Wordpress: JusticeSoulTuna Youtube: JusticeSoulTuna I'm literally JST everywhere |
Jun 19, 2015 10:55 AM
#269
Jun 19, 2015 10:59 AM
#270
Jun 19, 2015 11:53 AM
#271
Takuan_Soho said: appu1232 said: I mean I can't really prove it to you but this seems like the most realistic reason why Haruno wanted to know her career path and how she was able to realize what she chose just based on hearing that she told 8man. The fact that Haruno would envy's Yukino seems out of the blue to me. Not really. The hints have been there the whole time, but the writer has been clever in balancing things so on the whole it could seem like she was trying to help Yukino. But once we begin to unravel that nothing Haruno has said is true, then the facade fails away and "envious" Haruno best fits the facts. What lies? 1) Yukino is too dependent. Where? She is a high school student who is capable of living on her own, she cooks her own meals and handles her affairs while getting top scores at school. She had earned the trust of her mother to allow her to do this at fifteen. 2) They all get jealous and avoid her. We have no evidence that Yukino was the cause of this. Yukino can be friends with Hachiman, she can be friends with Yui, her superlative skills may isolate her somewhat from most people, but this would be because of "respect" not "jealousy". We also see that when Yukino lets her guard down she is actually a very sweet, helpful person. So here's the question. Why do you think she has her guard up; more to the point who is the person she MOST has her guard up against? Who is constantly imposing herself on Yukino at Yukino's school? Don't people find this extremely bizarre, do we think she was different when Yukino was an elementary student? 3) That something wrong is lurking behind Yukino's decisions. Where has any evidence of that ever been shown? She is able to speak directly with her mother, showing that Yukino has an earnest personality. She also said that she would explain her career path to her, which means that she has a reason and had made her own decision on the matter. Her mother obviously trusts Yukino enough that just Yukino's assurances alone were enough to allow the mother to leave Yukino by herself. Don't people find it odd to what efforts Haruno went fishing about for Yukino's declsion? Really, what business is it of hers? What sort of person calls out her sister's friends and tries to pump them for information (she did the same thing to find out that Yukino was thinking about a 4 year school). That Yukino told Hachiman only told Haruno that Yukino trusts Hachiman in a way she doesn't trust Haruno. And for good reason considering that Haruno went and told her mother something that cause the mother worry. As for the envy, hasn't anyone noticed that whenever Haruno learns something about Yukino she immediately puts the most negative spin on it? And then TELLS everyone? That is a catty girl move, something only jealousy can explain. On a side note, this story is really reminding of the brilliant Silverberg novel "Dying Inside" (top 20 SF novel of all time, not kidding, it really is brilliant). In the story the MC is a telepath, but being such a "superman" doesn't make him happy, indeed it makes him miserable, and he can only achieve happiness by losing this ability. Hachiman is the MC. His needing to learn the truth of that novel to be able to move on. I personally don't see it that way. Sure Haruno is going about it the wrong way and I agree that there are better methods to do whatever it is she is trying to do but it seems you are just antagonizing her without giving her a chance. I mean I could be wrong and you could be completely right; she could be the devil. I just think there isn't enough evidence to say that she is the villain yet. Are we certain that she envy's Yukino and wants to do all this just to mess with her sister? No. Are we certain this is all part of a huge plan that will eventually help her sister and 8man realize their true feelings? No. Neither of our theories have enough evidence at this point. I was just discussing my interpretation of her character and why we can't jump to any conclusions yet. |
Jun 19, 2015 12:23 PM
#272
Takuan_Soho said: appu1232 said: I mean I can't really prove it to you but this seems like the most realistic reason why Haruno wanted to know her career path and how she was able to realize what she chose just based on hearing that she told 8man. The fact that Haruno would envy's Yukino seems out of the blue to me. What lies? 1) Yukino is too dependent. Where? She is a high school student who is capable of living on her own, she cooks her own meals and handles her affairs while getting top scores at school. She had earned the trust of her mother to allow her to do this at fifteen. 2) They all get jealous and avoid her. We have no evidence that Yukino was the cause of this. Yukino can be friends with Hachiman, she can be friends with Yui, her superlative skills may isolate her somewhat from most people, but this would be because of "respect" not "jealousy". We also see that when Yukino lets her guard down she is actually a very sweet, helpful person. So here's the question. Why do you think she has her guard up; more to the point who is the person she MOST has her guard up against? Who is constantly imposing herself on Yukino at Yukino's school? Don't people find this extremely bizarre, do we think she was different when Yukino was an elementary student? 3) That something wrong is lurking behind Yukino's decisions. Where has any evidence of that ever been shown? She is able to speak directly with her mother, showing that Yukino has an earnest personality. She also said that she would explain her career path to her, which means that she has a reason and had made her own decision on the matter. Her mother obviously trusts Yukino enough that just Yukino's assurances alone were enough to allow the mother to leave Yukino by herself. Don't people find it odd to what efforts Haruno went fishing about for Yukino's declsion? Really, what business is it of hers? What sort of person calls out her sister's friends and tries to pump them for information (she did the same thing to find out that Yukino was thinking about a 4 year school). That Yukino told Hachiman only told Haruno that Yukino trusts Hachiman in a way she doesn't trust Haruno. And for good reason considering that Haruno went and told her mother something that cause the mother worry. As for the envy, hasn't anyone noticed that whenever Haruno learns something about Yukino she immediately puts the most negative spin on it? And then TELLS everyone? That is a catty girl move, something only jealousy can explain. On a side note, this story is really reminding of the brilliant Silverberg novel "Dying Inside" (top 20 SF novel of all time, not kidding, it really is brilliant). In the story the MC is a telepath, but being such a "superman" doesn't make him happy, indeed it makes him miserable, and he can only achieve happiness by losing this ability. Hachiman is the MC. His needing to learn the truth of that novel to be able to move on. agree with you,and it does make sense.I dont know if it is just envy or something else.But your points does make sense.Also for 2 seasons we have not seen how Yukinon is supposedly so dependent on others...as you say she is shown to be the excact opposite.Also depending on others such as friends/family is not a bad thing usually people actually have to at some point in their life.So i dont get in what way a young kid was so dependent to the point of it being a crime.Or how she is dependent now that she is older... Haruno seems like a creepy stalker to me....adult sister acting like that?There's gotta to be something more than just ''wants to help her sister''.There's gotta be some envy / ''hate'' or sth else to act like this.Its obvious there's something wrong here^^. Honest opinion if someone is dependent that is Haruno,she always just did what her parents/other people expected because she knew if she did sth different she wouldnt have their support,and she was scared to try something on her own. For me you really nailed it,with 2) and 3) as well,i just dont see how yuki is so wrong with her actions,that haruno has to act like this all the time in front of her friends.Her behaviour seems to be that of a stalker's not like an adult sister's.Well just an opinion^^. |
Jun 19, 2015 12:25 PM
#273
Too many variables and too many things to consider in this episode. Such a rollercoaster. Contrary to many of the posts, I loved Haruno in this episode. She just woke up the trio and set up a stage where everything is clear and what is left is the decision of 8man to come up with a resolution. The trio are so far gone, they're hurting each other by trying to do the opposite. Yui, first of all Happy Birthday. Is fully aware of her feelings and possibly, the feelings of Yukinon. The bowl scene and the end part where she says, "I feel that would be unfair of me" when 8man offers himself to walk her home; struck me like a bolt. I really look up to Yui. She's extremely strong even when the world is against her emotions. Yukinon, on the other hand, probably doesn't have enough time to settle her emotions. Things are just too hazy. With everyone constantly painting an image of her, what freedom does she have to think about her feelings. She is framed on the wall. Hachiman. He was caught in the crossfire and he must resolve everything. I cannot decide whether the intentions of Haruno is positive or neutral. Does she want her sister to follow her footsteps? It seems so, her whole family is against her "radical" behavior and it was evident that Haruno wanted to confirm her decision between sci and humanities, ergo, wanted to see if Yukinon was following or straying from the path laid before her. Or is this to some kind of trick to destroy an old building to start anew. I do not know how this will be resolved. It is quite the pickle. What we want is some batman action where swift action will take place. But how will he deal with that sinister thing that make you think illogically and move not dedicated with your mind but with your heart. I think the sinister thing is love and Hachiman might not deal with it in the best of ways. Last time he had to deal with love, it went so bad he had to sacrifice himself once again, and take the knife of rejection for someone else. Just to avoid the destruction of a fake group and make him question the state of his own. That rules out that method of solving things. With everything and how it is going. I see an ending where he ends up with no one to hurt no one and everyone becomes friends. But I don't want that and I don't find that genuine. I want people to get hurt and cry, no more running and no more facades. If everything goes right, the best possible thing to happen is that he ends up with Yukinon. |
Hello? Romance? Yeah, I'm already there. |
Jun 19, 2015 12:26 PM
#274
love this episode. love this series know why, even without explosions, action, fantasy, stupid harem antics, it still delivers tension, the kind that makes you uncomfortable sometimes cause its real, you feel like the characters are real (very character driven) and you just dont get that out of most shows these days [especially those that have all the extra flash, like fantasy, mecha, action and stuff] its disappointing. great episode cnt wait for the conclusion next week and cant wait for vol. 11, pre ordered it yesterday!!! spend summer reading it |
Jun 19, 2015 12:28 PM
#275
DarklordVor said: Nikodead said: Case closed School Days... nice boat. Dark Yui best >_< |
Jun 19, 2015 12:29 PM
#276
appu1232 said: but it seems you are just antagonizing her without giving her a chance. I think giving her the benefit of the doubt for 24 episodes is more than enough of a "chance". In the real world if you wait until everything is clear then it will always be too late. As a return question: can you give a clear example of 1 thing that Haruno did that was for Yuki's benefit? The student festival is not a good example, indeed it is the clear that she did it to spite Yukino. While Yukino may have isolated herself by being the Ice Queen it was clear that the event would have been a success before Haruno showed up. Haruno's interference would have only resulted in 1) Yukino killing herself to do everything herself to save the event, or 2) the event being a disaster, with all the blame going to Yukino. Hachiman saved the day there. It sure as hell wasn't Haruno. Also don't forget what Yukino bribed Haruno with to buy time. I had forgotten that one, but that was a major telling point. The fireworks is about the closest thing, but I question her intent even there (as I said elsewhere). So what are we left with? I can give multiple examples of Haruno being vile: forcing Yukino to come to where their mom was going to go, calling her mom this episode, publicly dismissing Yui, her sister's friend, multiple times. Publicly embarrassing Hachiman (her sister's other friend) over his previous proposal, and then calling Hayama over to see it. Can you name one good thing? appu1232 said: Are we certain that she envy's Yukino and wants to do all this just to mess with her sister? No. That she wants to "mess" with Yukino is clear, that is the only reason she continually visits high school. Even this episode Iroha had said that Haruno was "very enthusiastic" about attending the cooking session. Why? Try to explain that. Did she participate in cooking? No. All she did was mess with Yukino. That was what she wanted. Perhaps envy isn't the right word. I think I have the proper description of Haruno. She is a controlling older sister: she loved to have Yukino idolize her, for her to be the cute but weaker sister who was always following her around. She is trying to keep Yukino (and Hayama) in that position and is annoyed when they try to break free. Hayama has given up, but Yukino continues to fight. In short, Haruno has only told 1 lie this entire series: everything she accused Yukino of being (including being rejected) actually applies to Haruno. Who seems the more dependent, the Yukino who moved away from her family, or the Haruno who always goes or creates situations were Yukino cannot escape (school, or by trapping her friends)? Who is more manipulative? Yukino, or the person who called her mother out? Who has been shown to have a sinister motive? Yukino, or the person who told her mother about Yukino's career choice? Of course maybe next week things will change, but this isn't next week. We are here today. If we want to talk about this episode we need to talk about what we know at this moment. We have to make the best judgment we can with the information we have at hand. Could we be wrong? Perhaps, but in life you never have complete information, you have to make your decisions and honor them. Saying "we don't know, we don't know" is not an argument, it is an evasion. |
Jun 19, 2015 12:40 PM
#277
Nice to see the girls are making chocolates in this episode. |
Jun 19, 2015 12:52 PM
#278
Takuan_Soho said: Of course maybe next week things will change, but this isn't next week. We are here today. If we want to talk about this episode we need to talk about what we know at this moment. We have to make the best judgment we can with the information we have at hand. Could we be wrong? Perhaps, but in life you never have complete information, you have to make your decisions and honor them. Saying "we don't know, we don't know" is not an argument, it is an evasion. I disagree where you say that not knowing is not an argument. My main point here is just that Haruno has been trying to do something about Yukino this entire season and it is yet to be clear what it is. This is why I say we don't know and we shouldn't jump to conclusions. I don't need 5 paragraphs explaining what she has done so far and how wrong it is. I've seen it too and I agree that her methods are questionable but that's it. You are saying that because she is behaving that way, there could be no other reason to it except that she is just naturally a bad person trying to destroy her sister but this show is better than that. There are no characters in this show that are that transparent. Everyone so far has had a reason for their questionable decisions that can be empathized with and I believe we will soon see what the reason is for Haruno. |
Jun 19, 2015 12:52 PM
#279
^^oh, just thought of another thing about Haruno. Remember how she used Hachiman's sister to force Hachiman to go on that "date" with Hayama? What sick person uses a middle school girl as a weapon? Would love to hear an explanation justifying that one. And how she just "happened" to show up at the coffee shop where Yui and Yuki should have found Hachiman on a "date". The only thing that saved situation is that Hayama stood up to Haruno just enough to make it clear that Hachiman had nothing to do with it. That was why Haruno was pissed, her dog showed some independence. Watch the scene again. But watch it with the view that Hachiman's monologue was wrong. Yukino did not call Hayama out, Hayama called Yukino out. That was what Yukino meant by "I see what this is about" Again watch that scene. When has Yukino EVER dumped work on other people? Isn't the opposite more the truth, that Yukino takes on too much work (as with the festival)? But who HAS dumped work on other people (particularly on Hayama)? Picture becoming much clearer isn't it? |
Jun 19, 2015 1:02 PM
#280
Takuan_Soho said: ^^oh, just thought of another thing about Haruno. Remember how she used Hachiman's sister to force Hachiman to go on that "date" with Hayama? What sick person uses a middle school girl as a weapon? Would love to hear an explanation justifying that one. And how she just "happened" to show up at the coffee shop where Yui and Yuki should have found Hachiman on a "date". The only thing that saved situation is that Hayama stood up to Haruno just enough to make it clear that Hachiman had nothing to do with it. That was why Haruno was pissed, her dog showed some independence. Watch the scene again. But watch it with the view that Hachiman's monologue was wrong. Yukino did not call Hayama out, Hayama called Yukino out. That was what Yukino meant by "I see what this is about" Again watch that scene. When has Yukino EVER dumped work on other people? Isn't the opposite more the truth, that Yukino takes on too much work (as with the festival)? But who HAS dumped work on other people (particularly on Hayama)? Picture becoming much clearer isn't it? Takuan_Soho said: Would love to hear an explanation justifying that one. Takuan_Soho said: Picture becoming much clearer isn't it? Sarcastic tone is unncessary. I don't mean any harm here. I know where you are coming from but again these are all just more scenes of Haruno. I know all this happened but to me she has yet to do anything that has crossed the line and would be unjustifiable through some kind of reason (which has yet to be made clear). Like I said, every character in this series that has seemed like the antagonist has either: 1. turned a new leaf 2. we get a different perspective of them or 3. we realize their motives. See: Orimoto, Hayama, Yumiko, and even Yukino. |
appu1232Jun 19, 2015 1:19 PM
Jun 19, 2015 1:14 PM
#281
Great episode, It didn't seem like they were doing that bad. |
Jun 19, 2015 1:19 PM
#282
As always, Based Snafu :D |
Jun 19, 2015 1:23 PM
#283
But what reason does an adult need to act like a stalker. This is not normal behavour, no matter how you see it. Using your sister's friends to manipulate situations,acting like that in front of her friends show abnormal behaviour and is something that you can consider crossing the line. No matter what happens in next episodes or in the LN that show her motives, acting like an obsessed stalker is never good i think,and it cant possibly be justified by just ''wanted to help''.It wouldnt make sense if that is the only reason.Maybe Haruno herself thinks that this is the reason,but deep down there must be something more. Surprised not even one char in the anime doesnt find her behaviour strange.Especially 8man we only seen him thinking she can see through ppl well but he never questioned her actions towards yuki i think. |
Jun 19, 2015 1:33 PM
#284
Jun 19, 2015 1:33 PM
#285
Jun 19, 2015 1:54 PM
#286
neutomint said: Too many variables and too many things to consider in this episode. Such a rollercoaster. Contrary to many of the posts, I loved Haruno in this episode. She just woke up the trio and set up a stage where everything is clear and what is left is the decision of 8man to come up with a resolution. The trio are so far gone, they're hurting each other by trying to do the opposite. Yui, first of all Happy Birthday. Is fully aware of her feelings and possibly, the feelings of Yukinon. The bowl scene and the end part where she says, "I feel that would be unfair of me" when 8man offers himself to walk her home; struck me like a bolt. I really look up to Yui. She's extremely strong even when the world is against her emotions. Yukinon, on the other hand, probably doesn't have enough time to settle her emotions. Things are just too hazy. With everyone constantly painting an image of her, what freedom does she have to think about her feelings. She is framed on the wall. Hachiman. He was caught in the crossfire and he must resolve everything. I cannot decide whether the intentions of Haruno is positive or neutral. Does she want her sister to follow her footsteps? It seems so, her whole family is against her "radical" behavior and it was evident that Haruno wanted to confirm her decision between sci and humanities, ergo, wanted to see if Yukinon was following or straying from the path laid before her. Or is this to some kind of trick to destroy an old building to start anew. I do not know how this will be resolved. It is quite the pickle. What we want is some batman action where swift action will take place. But how will he deal with that sinister thing that make you think illogically and move not dedicated with your mind but with your heart. I think the sinister thing is love and Hachiman might not deal with it in the best of ways. Last time he had to deal with love, it went so bad he had to sacrifice himself once again, and take the knife of rejection for someone else. Just to avoid the destruction of a fake group and make him question the state of his own. That rules out that method of solving things. With everything and how it is going. I see an ending where he ends up with no one to hurt no one and everyone becomes friends. But I don't want that and I don't find that genuine. I want people to get hurt and cry, no more running and no more facades. If everything goes right, the best possible thing to happen is that he ends up with Yukinon. This makes me incredibly nervous for the finale next week. There's no way ALL of the conflicts are gonna be resolved next week in around 22 minutes. There's just no way! They'd have to deal with the love triangle (I'm assuming Iroha is just gonna back off), Yukino's family bc lord do they love adding on to her drama, and then proceed on to wrapping it all up. If they're not gonna produce a season 3, I just can't see everything being resolved and finishing strong next week. Also, in the beginning of this thread I immediately saw a white album reference and, lemme just say, I saw the exact same thing going on. I just recently watched White Album 2 and if this show ends similarly to how white album finished off (the anime at least), everything is going to be a train wreck, including me. Please episode 13, be good to me! |
エル。サイ。コングルー。 |
Jun 19, 2015 2:07 PM
#287
Really good episode, made me feel a lot of mixed feelings throughout. Now lets see how this season pans out :) |
Jun 19, 2015 2:12 PM
#288
I think shippers are wrong at this stage of the story. How could an experienced loner change so fast into a character accepting such advanced relationships, only because of what can be mostly seen as a form of sexual tension caused by a mix of accidental proximity and teenage hormonal activity? In his current state I don't think he could, even if Yui seems to think it could work anyway. I'd say similar things for Hayama and Ebina. Forcing events is not the best way to go for meaningful relationships. I don't say this can't happen, but it would need way more character development to feel plausible. And no, 13+ episodes of random blushing cannot be defined as "character development" or else shows like To Love-Ru would be the pinnacle of it. |
Jun 19, 2015 2:29 PM
#289
Jun 19, 2015 2:34 PM
#290
Ruzgfpegk said: I think shippers are wrong at this stage of the story. How could an experienced loner change so fast into a character accepting such advanced relationships, only because of what can be mostly seen as a form of sexual tension caused by a mix of accidental proximity and teenage hormonal activity? In his current state I don't think he could, even if Yui seems to think it could work anyway. I'd say similar things for Hayama and Ebina. Forcing events is not the best way to go for meaningful relationships. I don't say this can't happen, but it would need way more character development to feel plausible. And no, 13+ episodes of random blushing cannot be defined as "character development" or else shows like To Love-Ru would be the pinnacle of it. Hey! To Love-Ru is the pinnacle of plot, fanservice, character development and definitely art. |
Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime? |
Jun 19, 2015 2:36 PM
#291
>Even as an Iroha fan and shipper, I guess she doesn't really see 8man that way :/ >Orimoto is very likable this episode >hand gesture guy seems to like Orimoto lol >that full blown harem scene though XD >the tension is real among the trio I got to say contrary to the majority's opinion, I actually really enjoy Haruno's character. Just love how she brings storm every time she appears, especially that scene where she announced that Yukino gave Hayato chocolates before XD I find in pretty hilarious. She's pretty spot on though near the end of the episode. The trio are basically like Hayato's group right now, pretending everything is fine to maintain the status quo. Oh and I just want to mention that out of three main girls, Yui was the only one to not make 8man blush this episode XD |
Jun 19, 2015 2:37 PM
#292
Am I the only one who hates Yukino's mom with pashion? 8man needs to pull something like this at the end, or I will be really mad ! |
Jun 19, 2015 2:41 PM
#293
What are the odds of season 3? This season was fantastic, I'd hate to see this get what I'd like to call the FMP treatment. |
"The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
Jun 19, 2015 2:46 PM
#294
HamBaconEgg said: >Even as an Iroha fan and shipper, I guess she doesn't really see 8man that way :/ >Orimoto is very likable this episode >hand gesture guy seems to like Orimoto lol >that full blown harem scene though XD >the tension is real among the trio I got to say contrary to the majority's opinion, I actually really enjoy Haruno's character. Just love how she brings storm every time she appears, especially that scene where she announced that Yukino gave Hayato chocolates before XD I find in pretty hilarious. She's pretty spot on though near the end of the episode. The trio are basically like Hayato's group right now, pretending everything is fine to maintain the status quo. Oh and I just want to mention that out of three main girls, Yui was the only one to not make 8man blush this episode XD Do you read the LN? Because I'm betting that any scene with Iroha will be done a bit differently compared to the anime. |
Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime? |
Jun 19, 2015 2:52 PM
#295
I like the amount of saki in this episode. I feel bad for yui though. |
Jun 19, 2015 2:54 PM
#296
bobzanny said: HamBaconEgg said: >Even as an Iroha fan and shipper, I guess she doesn't really see 8man that way :/ >Orimoto is very likable this episode >hand gesture guy seems to like Orimoto lol >that full blown harem scene though XD >the tension is real among the trio I got to say contrary to the majority's opinion, I actually really enjoy Haruno's character. Just love how she brings storm every time she appears, especially that scene where she announced that Yukino gave Hayato chocolates before XD I find in pretty hilarious. She's pretty spot on though near the end of the episode. The trio are basically like Hayato's group right now, pretending everything is fine to maintain the status quo. Oh and I just want to mention that out of three main girls, Yui was the only one to not make 8man blush this episode XD Do you read the LN? Because I'm betting that any scene with Iroha will be done a bit differently compared to the anime. Uh yes I do. Which Iroha scene is different from LN and anime? |
Jun 19, 2015 2:58 PM
#297
HamBaconEgg said: bobzanny said: HamBaconEgg said: >Even as an Iroha fan and shipper, I guess she doesn't really see 8man that way :/ >Orimoto is very likable this episode >hand gesture guy seems to like Orimoto lol >that full blown harem scene though XD >the tension is real among the trio I got to say contrary to the majority's opinion, I actually really enjoy Haruno's character. Just love how she brings storm every time she appears, especially that scene where she announced that Yukino gave Hayato chocolates before XD I find in pretty hilarious. She's pretty spot on though near the end of the episode. The trio are basically like Hayato's group right now, pretending everything is fine to maintain the status quo. Oh and I just want to mention that out of three main girls, Yui was the only one to not make 8man blush this episode XD Do you read the LN? Because I'm betting that any scene with Iroha will be done a bit differently compared to the anime. Uh yes I do. Which Iroha scene is different from LN and anime? I'd be willing to bet that the scene where Iroha and Hachiman are giving each other libs out siscons and younger girls Iroha will most likely be blushing or more embarrassed and maybe a bit more teasing. I'd say the anime is trying to go for a Yukinon end and it's just simpler to slowly cut off the other love interests. But I could be wrong and just being the diehard Iroha fan that I am I cannot accept defeat. |
Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime? |
Jun 19, 2015 3:00 PM
#298
HamBaconEgg said: bobzanny said: HamBaconEgg said: >Even as an Iroha fan and shipper, I guess she doesn't really see 8man that way :/ >Orimoto is very likable this episode >hand gesture guy seems to like Orimoto lol >that full blown harem scene though XD >the tension is real among the trio I got to say contrary to the majority's opinion, I actually really enjoy Haruno's character. Just love how she brings storm every time she appears, especially that scene where she announced that Yukino gave Hayato chocolates before XD I find in pretty hilarious. She's pretty spot on though near the end of the episode. The trio are basically like Hayato's group right now, pretending everything is fine to maintain the status quo. Oh and I just want to mention that out of three main girls, Yui was the only one to not make 8man blush this episode XD Do you read the LN? Because I'm betting that any scene with Iroha will be done a bit differently compared to the anime. Uh yes I do. Which Iroha scene is different from LN and anime? basic on LN you know he's been treating iroha all the time as a little sister perhaps until that day Komachi join "automatic zone imoute" will be turn off |
Jun 19, 2015 3:08 PM
#299
Hm...so it's finally chocolate times eh? Everyone come together to make chocolate seem nice. Hachiman respond that he will receive chocolate from his Komochi lol. Haruno starting to annoy me with all her bullshit...there are so many questions that need to be answer as well... Wonder how they will wrap up this season in next episode. |
Jun 19, 2015 3:21 PM
#300
bobzanny said: I'd be willing to bet that the scene where Iroha and Hachiman are giving each other libs out siscons and younger girls Iroha will most likely be blushing or more embarrassed and maybe a bit more teasing. I'd say the anime is trying to go for a Yukinon end and it's just simpler to slowly cut off the other love interests. But I could be wrong and just being the diehard Iroha fan that I am I cannot accept defeat. Well either way, I guess Yukino still has a 40% being the end girl. 20% for Yui,, 20% 8man ends alone, 10% harem ending/open ending, 10% with another girl. So yeah, It's basically Yukino end XD But I think I get where you're coming from. Last episode, that supposed Irohax8man scene in the SC room where Yukino ad Yui appeared, the anime exaggerated Iroha's reaction where they made it look funny but it wasn't really in the LN abg said: basic on LN you know he's been treating iroha all the time as a little sister perhaps until that day Komachi join "automatic zone imoute" will be turn off Well 8man actually blushed around Iroha, and 8man doesn't blush around Komachi. He just gets Komachi vibe from Iroha because she's younger than him, but even then he just stated this epsode that he doesn't really see Iroha as someone younger than him. In other words, he doesn't really (okay maybe just a little) see Iroha as an imouto. |
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