Knights of Sidonia
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| I hope Kunato dies a slow, painful death. |
| “Are there some unseen roles that we have unknowingly set ourselves into, dictating the rules of engagement whenever we see each other, inevitably leading to us hurting each other?” |
lampshades120 said: WHY DID THEY HAVE TO KILL HOSHIJIRO. WHY COULDN'T IT HAVE BEEN SHINATOSE INSTEAD. The animation is mind-blowing. I hope to research and re-watch this series in order to understand it fully. Why Shinatose? Izana is the most interesting character so far... |
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| The characters in this show are often too quick to judge. Even if it was Nagate's fault, it was an accident, the people of Sidonia (those two pricks who threw a rock in particular) acted as if Nagate had intentionally screwed them over, accidents happen. It's also funny how they're so quick to forget his heroics in taking out those gauna solo and managing to find Shizuka when she was adrift. |
Onuma said: andreyv said: I also don't understand why didn't Tanikaze report this to the command and just stays quiet. This is so unrealistic that it kills the whole impression from this episode. Maybe because he doesn't have the communication record and no one would buy his story? And he also feels guilty for what happened to Hoshijiro like @Fai said. |
"Komugi, are you there?" |
| Izana is such a bro... uh, sis... bris? |
AiCon said: Would've been a great episode if it wasn't for such a stupidly obvious plot hole. Why didn't anyone bother to look up the transmissions in the mission to find out what happened? I find it hard to believe that none of those mechs have a flight data recorder in each of them when every single aircraft today (military and civilian) all have two of them in each plane. Also, why is it that no one even bothers to ask Nagate what the hell happened in that mission is beyond me. When you go against one of the most powerful families of all Sidonia, you can't do shit. It wouldn't be wise for them to kill the heir to the Kunato heavy industries that produces the current type 18. And seeing how it all ended in "minimal" casualties (despite the risks), they (the immortal ship committee or perhaps the captain) must have -obviously- "overlooked" this evidence. |
VeldarthMay 23, 2014 9:32 PM
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| Revenge is only sweet if you hold it in and let it explode with an exponential amount force. From the look of things, Kunato's going to get wrecked next episode. And he'll deserve every last bit of it. |
| Why worrying about it when the next "I'm not a girl"-girl is ready on the line? :/ Until this episode I really liked the show...I still like it and for me it's one of the best this season, but that shortcoming is something that's really holding me back. I hope it has some meaning and it will be somehow be explained in a later episode because, as of right now, it simply doesn't make any sense. How come the MC didn't say a word about that? You know...people died...and may die for the same exact reason...that is, out of envy. Furthermore, what are those masked guy in the control room even doing? No log whatsoever in a battle who may change the course of the human history?!!! |
| two things i was wandering about in this anime - the too many pink girls : and i knew it today. - the mother bear : i don't no why she even in the series. |
| That's one big ass hive gauna that they have to defeat... Kunato... once a bastard always a bastard it seems. I knew Hoshijiro would die since things were going too well between her and Nagate. I guess the next battle is going to be hard on Nagate at least a little bit. |
| "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall." |
whitecloud6 said: About those that hate kunato...dont ya worry hell get his comeuppance....in a very cruel way, and how he get this unscathed... My first post on this site. Your wrong about one thing. As stated this my first post so I have no idea if all this will remain behind a spoiler tag or not. I hope it is I don't want to spoil anyone unintentionally. |
| "Put a centipede inside the ear. Go on a date to the bookstore and have your insides gently scrambled." |
lampshades120 said: WHY DID THEY HAVE TO KILL HOSHIJIRO. WHY COULDN'T IT HAVE BEEN SHINATOSE INSTEAD. The animation is mind-blowing. I hope to research and re-watch this series in order to understand it fully. Izana wasn't even on that mission - [she] wasn't even promoted to a full pilot yet. It would have been impossible to kill [her] outside of the training sortie in the first two episodes. mezzo12 said: two things i was wandering about in this anime - the too many pink girls : and i knew it today. - the mother bear : i don't no why she even in the series. If you paid attention in the last episode, you'd have learned that the Honokas were genetically engineered clone sisters. Someone else already answered me on Hiyama, but this isn't the first time Nihei had a bear character (though frankly, Hiyama is way more interesting and likable than Biomega's Grebnev). |
DeicideVMay 24, 2014 1:56 AM
| Typing on an ipad is like driving carpentry nails with a sledgehammer. |
AiCon said: Would've been a great episode if it wasn't for such a stupidly obvious plot hole. Why didn't anyone bother to look up the transmissions in the mission to find out what happened? I find it hard to believe that none of those mechs have a flight data recorder in each of them when every single aircraft today (military and civilian) all have two of them in each plane. Also, why is it that no one even bothers to ask Nagate what the hell happened in that mission is beyond me. Because the mission com saw what happened, Nagate detonaded the explosives too early, Kunato didn't give order in public channel, so officials doesn't see reason for investigation, even more so as the captain already forgive the Nagate and Nagate kept silent about his order from Kunato. I think Nagate is mostly blaming himself because after his msitkae he freezed, thus he was needed to be saved. Personally i would have beat shit out of Kunato... |
| Man this show is really good but the writing was all over the place this episode. Hopefully the next one redeems it and keeps pace till the end. |
| Damn it.. I couldn't watch this yesterday. qq Kunato. Wow. Never seen a bastard I've hated so much since Sword Art Online's Sugou Nobuyuki. Shiz, Hoshijiro's death.. o.o O.O Hiyama just threw Tanikaze so easily.. Departure ceremony huh.. Wonder how they do it. Midorikawa is better in commanding than fighting. SIDONIA WHEN AT NIGHT WAS VISUALLY F-CKING IMPRESSIVE. "Don't blame it on me." < wow fag Those Gardes Gauna.. now Mecha vs. Mecha bish Next episode: "Undead" |
"The one true, unchanging righteousness in the world is..cuteness! Cute makes right! All our needs, desires, and instincts seek cuteness, and it is for cuteness that we will give everything we have! That's just the way men are!" - Sora |
| Next episode predictions: White haired ex-officer will die and the new green haired girl will lose her mind jeopardizing the whole mission. The 'farewell ceremony' for the people who want to leave Sidonia involves them getting thrown into the biothermal reactors. (or alternatively just blown out into space to die) |
| Kunato can go and fist himself. On a side note; I'm happy to see that Sidonia no Kishi's score has risen from around 7.3 or 4 to 7.63. |
RiceMay 24, 2014 4:13 AM
Kondo-Isao said: On a side note; I'm happy to see that Sidonia no Kishi's score has risen from around 7.3 or 4 to 7.63. You can expect it to rise even further as new episodes come out. Some people only watch 1-2 episodes, rate 1-2 and drop. As time goes their votes don't count because they don't cover that % required. Same thing happened with Kingdom, it was horribly rated first 15 or so episodes, now it is rated in top 100 with only 3000 votes. This is why I don't take MAL ratings serious at all, some shows with 3-4k votes are higher ranked than the ones with >20-30k. But that's a discussion for other times :) I failed to comment on it because I was pissed off at whole conversation thing but what is it with Gauna and shapeshifting? My original thought was 2 things: 1. Psychological warfare. Fighting image of loved ones is hard (Unless you are Roy Mustang) and it lowers morale of enemies present. 2. Location of core. Take typical anime spaceships/mechas for example, you always know where the engine/pilot is located and can focus attacks there. With shapeshifting it is harder to determine location of a core which gives Gauna more time to kill enemies. However, 2nd point goes down if it transforms into something smaller, such as 702 model. And while psychological effect remains it is much lower and focused on one guy this time, Tanikaze. This leads me to believe that either Gauna can use telepathy to transfer thoughts between each others or they are really trying to communicate. Telepathy came to my mind for 2 reasons, first they found Sidonia much faster after first one died (yes, I know they are in Gauna space) and they are using specifically Tanikaze suit transformed. They would not do that unless they knew he was the one that killed first Gauna that appeared. Maybe I am just looking too deep into this but I am almost certain they have a purpose in their actions and are not doing it based on instincts alone. |
nina4life said: Kondo-Isao said: On a side note; I'm happy to see that Sidonia no Kishi's score has risen from around 7.3 or 4 to 7.63. You can expect it to rise even further as new episodes come out. Some people only watch 1-2 episodes, rate 1-2 and drop. As time goes their votes don't count because they don't cover that % required. Same thing happened with Kingdom, it was horribly rated first 15 or so episodes, now it is rated in top 100 with only 3000 votes. This is why I don't take MAL ratings serious at all, some shows with 3-4k votes are higher ranked than the ones with >20-30k. But that's a discussion for other times :) I failed to comment on it because I was pissed off at whole conversation thing but what is it with Gauna and shapeshifting? My original thought was 2 things: 1. Psychological warfare. Fighting image of loved ones is hard (Unless you are Roy Mustang) and it lowers morale of enemies present. 2. Location of core. Take typical anime spaceships/mechas for example, you always know where the engine/pilot is located and can focus attacks there. With shapeshifting it is harder to determine location of a core which gives Gauna more time to kill enemies. However, 2nd point goes down if it transforms into something smaller, such as 702 model. And while psychological effect remains it is much lower and focused on one guy this time, Tanikaze. This leads me to believe that either Gauna can use telepathy to transfer thoughts between each others or they are really trying to communicate. Telepathy came to my mind for 2 reasons, first they found Sidonia much faster after first one died (yes, I know they are in Gauna space) and they are using specifically Tanikaze suit transformed. They would not do that unless they knew he was the one that killed first Gauna that appeared. Maybe I am just looking too deep into this but I am almost certain they have a purpose in their actions and are not doing it based on instincts alone. I am sure you will get (part of) your answer next week. It will be up to you to interpret it, though. |
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| dick move kunato |
"Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy." |
| Yep, Kunato needs to fucking die. |
My Candies:     |
| OMG!!!!!! I want Kunato to be humiliate and then die!!!!!!!!! Guana kill him!!!!! Hoshiijro T_______T |
| Honestly I wouldn't blame Kunato for what he did (ok maybe) Because you should look all this from his point of view. He's from an elite family and trained most of his time aiming to pilot the famous Type-17 "Tsugumori" then suddenly some unknown guy gets selected as a Guardian Pilot and pilots the Type-17 before Kunato ever had the chance. Not to mention he gets shunned by the four highest ranking veteran pilots. Even during the gauna fight in his point of view, Nagate steals all the glory by defeating the gauna by himself with the kazibashi (which he takes forcefully from Kunato in the manga) so of course that made him jealous and he tried to ruin Nagate's chance in the recent battle. And If I'm not wrong in the manga he didn't mean to get Hoshijiro killed and was slightly depressed after the battle. But I suppose in the anime they wanted to make him seem more villainous. |
Z4KMay 24, 2014 9:24 AM
Z4k said: Honestly I wouldn't blame Kunato for what he did (ok maybe) Because you should look all this from his point of view. He's from an elite family and trained most of his time aiming to pilot the famous Type-17 "Tsugumori" then suddenly some unknown guy gets selected as a Guardian Pilot and pilots the Type-17 before Kunato ever had the chance. Not to mention he gets shunned by the four highest ranking veteran pilots. Even during the gauna fight in his point of view, Nagate steals all the glory by defeating the gauna by himself with the kazibashi (which he takes forcefully from Kunato in the manga) so of course that made him jealous and he tried to ruin Nagate's chance in the recent battle. And If I'm not wrong in the manga he didn't mean to get Hoshijiro killed and was slightly depressed after the battle. But I suppose in the anime they wanted to make him seem more villainous. This is correct. At this point he should be genuinely freaking out about what happened, even if he blames Nagate for it(which is more of a psychological defense mechanism to cope with what he did). In his eyes, Nagate took away took away two things that gave meaning to his life. What Kunato is looking is not really "fame", but an acceptance or belonging. As the cut flashback says his position as Pilot is something he achieved by his own guts and will - something not given to him through his family's money. The things that justified him having that family name and NOT the other way around. He feels like Nagate stole the last small things he had that did not go to him simply because of his family name. He does not "gloat" he does not feel "having won". In an utilitarian society like Sidonia, he feels like he has nothing. |
AhenshihaelMay 24, 2014 9:40 AM
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| I think even Tanikaze doesn't really hate him nor will pursuit any kind of revenge. This is based on simple sentence from Tanikaze: "I fight Gauna. Nothing else". Something along those lines. While I think Kunato is total dick and idiot for doing what he did, I also think it indeed was Tanikaze fault Hoshijiro died. Let me try and explain. Let's assume plan worked, tail was severed, Kunato didn't do anything wrong. All would be fine. However, plan not working instantly threw Tanikaze in a state of disbelief and he made a mistake which would've killed him. That mistake was not his fault this time as we know, but what about next time he makes a mistake? Nobody is perfect (unless you are that certain someone from that certain show) and everyone is gonna make a mistake sooner or later. As strange as it sounds, a "mistake", grief and sadness over losing Hoshijiro was the best thing that could've happened to Tanikaze if we're looking at the future. He has experienced everything now, making his resolve stronger and I'm pretty sure he's not gonna doze off next time something goes wrong. So yeah, Kunato is an asshole, but Hoshijiro dying is as much Tanikaze's fault as it is Kunato's. |
| I don't see it as Tanikaze's fault tbh. Kunato started the chain which lead to her death, it's more his fault than Tanikaze's. Anyway I've read the manga a little further than the anime has gone. They have vilified Kunato more than he actually was in the manga, but he's still a dick. I don't recall seeing him depressed at all after the battle and I've already finished the battle that will take place next episode. |
antonnn said: I don't see it as Tanikaze's fault tbh. Kunato started the chain which lead to her death, it's more his fault than Tanikaze's. Kunato's actions LED to the situation where Tanikaze froze. But the point is -Tanikaze froze. Reaction to something going wrong should NOT be freezing up. |
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| How would you react when you've realised, mid battle, that this other moron has decided to screw you over out of some stupid jealousy when you're fighting to protect the damn human race? It's quite a shocking thing to realise mid battle, I'm sure there are more people who would freak out like that than just being able get on with things. Human's aren't perfect, and that applies for Kunato too, and yeah Tanikaze could have done something more than freezing up at the realisation, but really, the middle of a battle where the human race is on the line is NOT the right time to decide to be utterly petulant and get somebody back out of jealousy, it doesn't matter how much you pride yourself on your ability and achievements thus far or whatnot. Tanikaze is at fault, and revenge happens, sure, but do it somewhere else. Or even better, win your place back, prove yourself to be better than the guy who has taken your place and crushed your pride, especially when you have a high enough opinion of yourself to think you deserve to be there. 15 years old or not, at that age you're old enough to have a general idea of right from wrong, especially when you're brought up as a soldier to protect the human race, such ridiculous thoughts and acts of revenge shouldn't at all be a priority when you're out there to fight against aliens, completing your mission should be. Kunato is hands down more to blame for prioritising a personal agenda over getting the mission done right. You can be a flawed human being but that's no excuse for putting aside the protection of your people to get back a guy without thinking of what kind of damage it may cause. I want to see what eventually happens to Kunato, as in this type of story, guys who do things like this never get away with it. One other thing I am curious about though... why make green head girl(I forget her name) give the commands for the next mission? And make her out to be somebody super talented? What is the point of it? She's a nobody in the manga up to where I've read. Unless she's somebody great later on and they decided to bring this forward? |
antonnnMay 24, 2014 11:28 AM
whitecloud6 said: About those that hate kunato...dont ya worry hell get his comeuppance....in a very cruel way, and how he get this unscathed... Thanks for the tip-off. But in spite of what comes next for Kunato, regardless of whether most of us here think he deserves it or not, I have only one question about that situation: Will the truth of the situation with the patient forgiving "Saint" Tanikaze be revealed to the public of Sidonia? Or will he be deemed a failure of a pilot who was responsible for the deaths of 12 pilots and the failure of that particular mission forever? D5 said: Fai said: antonnn said: I don't see it as Tanikaze's fault tbh. Kunato started the chain which lead to her death, it's more his fault than Tanikaze's. Kunato's actions LED to the situation where Tanikaze froze. But the point is -Tanikaze froze. Reaction to something going wrong should NOT be freezing up. Yeah, and, I wonder if they don't have psychology in the future. They seem to train tactics as if the humans were machines controlling machines, rather than people with minds and emotions who need to control those aspects of themselves as a higher priority than controlling the mechs... since chaotic battlefields are where you really need that sort of mental fortitude. Not just Tamikaze freezing recently, but how the elite squad of four broke down a few episodes back, and how Tamikaze disobeyed orders and tried to fight the first G. directly, without a spear, during the first sortie... all of these things should lead to disciplinary action. Not punishment, but, some process meant to instill discipline. Because when things go chaotic, discipline will see you through that. Piloting skills are useless if you can't pilot your own emotions. To that end, that is why I prefer anime like Golgo 13 or Ninja Scroll, where at least some of the major characters have the discipline to survive a crisis. I have to agree with the both of you here. I can't believe that with all the training that they do in simulators and actual combat, that they don't actually train up their pilots emotional discipline for when things go wrong. This particular issue is one of the only things which I find unbelievable in such a situation. You send out pilots to fight and die for Sidonia, why are you not training them up to give them the best and biggest chance to survive and complete your missions? I mean, they've had the data regarding Gauna for like a century now, they even know how to kill them. Yet with all the conditioning going to teach these soldiers and clones to operate a robot to fight, they don't condition them to react to a crisis or a situation where your comrades are killed? I'm sorry, but I call bullshit on this point. There is no way that military training would neglect something as simple as the individual's psyche and emotional stability when selecting suitable soldiers to fight (if they neglected that, then who knows, maybe soldiers would rush into their own barracks and kill everyone). In a case where they deem certain individuals' participation would endanger the mission, the top option would always be to separate said individuals from the team, and put in a suitable alternative. For the first mission with Akai's squad, it should have been clearly recognized that the girlfriend should not have been on that squad, given it was her breakdown which led to the entire squad being wiped out. Even assuming that they were dating in secret, given the dangers and the parameters of the mission, there shouldn't have been any reason for the other squad members to not consider this potential danger to the squad and make a suggestion beforehand to remove her from the squad. The only excuse I can think of is perhaps that they thought the Gauna were pushovers, which I could only put down to be another failure in military training, since no soldier should be this arrogant in the face of a potential enemy/dangerous situation to neglect to ensure the best preparation for their own survival. Then to make the same mistake again in the second battle, seriously are you shitting me?!? I give Tanikaze the benefit of a doubt seeing as he wasn't raised to fight in a team whereby failure is foisted onto him by others which may potentially lead him to freeze and blame himself in the middle of the battle, and the fact that he probably hasn't been trained in the art of failure anyways, but seriously how the heck can the commanders of the second operation not scan for potential ticking bombs within their own squads in case they mess up the mission again like the first time around. IF the had done so, then Hoshijiro would have potentially been left out of the squad and have survived instead of whatever the heck it is that happened to her, and perhaps Kunato wouldn't have been placed in that position to fuck up the mission. I love this show to bits, and I am still planning to start the manga, but this surreal situation just give me the impression that this isn't really a war with the Gauna, but a bunch of people and kids playing military. I would apologize, but it really pisses me off. Even my friends in the army are better trained and have more discipline to survive a negative situation than this. The military training in this show is a joke. |
HESTIA   APPROVES |
| Why is Sakurai always so good at playing bastards like Kunato. |
| I think the whole failing to control emotions and whatnot will be ironed out later. They hadn't encountered Gauna for a long time and I really don't think pretend battles are going to help you with how you'd go during a real battle where you can actually die. The surviving pilots will toughen up over time, a bunch of them are pretty much kids. |
antonnn said: I think the whole failing to control emotions and whatnot will be ironed out later. They hadn't encountered Gauna for a long time and I really don't think pretend battles are going to help you with how you'd go during a real battle where you can actually die. The surviving pilots will toughen up over time, a bunch of them are pretty much kids. So in a way its Captain and COuncil's fault then, for doing politics and placing bunch of kids there according to PR and not according to reason. Hilariously part of Kunato point of view proved right - Nagate not having years of training and preparation actually ended up being his weakness in a way that scarred both of them. |
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deityignis said: Fai said: antonnn said: I think the whole failing to control emotions and whatnot will be ironed out later. They hadn't encountered Gauna for a long time and I really don't think pretend battles are going to help you with how you'd go during a real battle where you can actually die. The surviving pilots will toughen up over time, a bunch of them are pretty much kids. So in a way its Captain and COuncil's fault then, for doing politics and placing bunch of kids there according to PR and not according to reason. Hilariously part of Kunato point of view proved right - Nagate not having years of training and preparation actually ended up being his weakness in a way that scarred both of them. Sending the younger trainees out is the only way for them to get true experience instead of relying on outdated virtual simulations imo. That and they are more expandable. Normally that would make sense, but when you're very survival is on the line, would it not make more sense to use the best and brightest pilots which you have available to ensure the best chance of your species' continuing existence? We are talking about an enemy which they haven't encountered in a long time. Why would they not send out the most experienced pilots in such a case and leave everything to a bunch of barely-trained, freshly-promoted academy cadets? A PR stunt only works when you are sure of the outcome. When you have so many variables and the stakes are so high that they affect the survival of your entire population, you would think that the higher ups would forego a flashy farce of a parade and instead go for a quick and less messy victory, no? You don't give the most important and potentially battle decisive mission (yes I am talking about the bombs) to a green squad, no matter how much of a hero one of them seems to be. It's just not justifiable. |
HESTIA APPROVES |
| I hope Kunato doesn't die. At least not before his selfish actions come to light and he's experienced the humiliation of being revealed to be a total d-bag. Botato said: Fai said: Botato said: "Departure ceremony." This does indeed sound like she wants to kill anyone that leaves, but I really don't see the point in doing so. Logically and only by speculation, if she did want to kill those who leave, it would obviously be to minimize the unpredictable factors. I thought of that, but then again what could possibly result from throwing some people to drift into space? Unless there's something about the Gauna the commanders know that has to do with this, I see 0 point in doing so. But whatever, not like they'll survive for too long with Gauna around if they leave Sidonia. In a closed system like Sidonia, everything is a resource, including your own body. Everything is recycled. Biological waste (food scraps, dead bodies) are thrown into the biothermal reactor, broken down into their constituent parts, and used for fertilizer or other things. This in mind, having an exodus of discontented people is a blow to Sidonia as a whole. They'd take with them ships, machinery, food, water, other supplies, and their own bodies. The "departure ceremony" is likely a smile, a wave goodbye, and a gas chamber instead of an airlock. Chuck the bodies in the reactor, and they're just as "gone forever" to the people still living there as if they'd left. |
| Looks like I'm late to the party :\ Eh too lazy to read those walls of text, but I'll throw my opinion anyway. Kunato is a moron for doing what he did, without thinking of the consequences. Hell he didn't even consider maybe some other squad screws up, and that if he adds another screw up the entire mission will certainly end in disaster. Nagate was stupid too just standing there like a statue, but out of both of them Kunato is the bigger idiot. |
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| Personally I don't want Kunato to die, and I don't expect him to either. It'd be too typical to kill him off. This isn't some glorified shonen, which is why I like it. 4 episodes already made me like this more than SnK which is similar with it's general plot. SnK pissed me off with how they glorified everything, such as characters dying and the tragedy that befell the human race like there's never been an anime where people died/there was tragedy. I mean shit, episode 4 a tonne of people died when they turned on the thrusters and there was no glorification like there was in SnK when one person got bitten in half. |
| How low could Kunato get....endangering the whole squad, resulting to the death of Hoshijiro just cause of his big fat ego....unbelievable that bastard! Sorry to see Hoshijiro go so early and in such a terrible way :( she was so nice. I still have faith in Tanikaze though. |
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| I got an impression that Nagate didn't report anything because he didn't even know he could. He's been trained in piloting, but he knows nothing about the military structure, the procedures etc. And since he's mostly a passive character (outside of battle), it's actualy believable for him to not try to change anything. He probably has doubts about his memory too. I'm just curious who is the fourth member of Butthurt Sephiroth's squad now, since Hoshijiro is (un)dead... |
![http://myanimelist.net/signature/Oxu.png"](http://myanimelist.net/signature/Oxu.png"){kind=link}
| I'm a bit disappointed that the battle with the Gauna hive wasn't better. Kunato should be executed for treason. His jealousy of Nagate puts the entirety of Sidonia at risk. As for proof... why wouldn't they record every transmission?... |
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