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Kiniest said: tsudecimo said: Kiniest said: Anyways, my two cents: Why are we assuming the Ant King is dead? Do consider just how powerful his existence is. If the purpose of the "asspull" is supposedly to make it possible to kill the Ant King, what if he actually survives it? Then you can't argue that it's asspull for the sake of asspull. That might make Netero's motivation clearer - he was going to die bomb or no bomb, so in such a case, it might be good to take everyone's foreshadowing points seriously. Also, if you guys are going to argue foreshadowing, present more than one line and make the connection. Now, if he *is* dead, it'll be a much harder arguement. Well.. Or, if you completely disagree with me, or even find my statements completely inane, argue me! I don't bite or get mad if you have a completely different take on the writing than me or other people do. I don't think whether or not it kills the king is relevant. It's an asspull because it's a major event happening with insufficient foreshadowing. As for it's effects, you will get spoiled if I answer. You see my problem is not whether or not it's an asspull, that's not why I think it's bad decision. It what follows from here is what I have a problem, and consider ''bad writing''. |
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| A lot of serious discussions going on here now but anyway, let's just praise Madhouse for the beautiful and superb animation. Glad this episode meet and even exceeded my high expectations since one of Madhouse's other anime (AnD) which is one of my fave too just did a recap which really made me frustrated after a long wait. Kudos for a very good job on this one. Really spectacular and epic. |
Kiniest said: I think the fact that it wasn't foreshadowed isn't completely destructive - it was entirely possible for this situation to happen in the background, given how much time Netero had to prepare and the technology of the world, all it really does is take away the levity of the event actually happening and make it feel less significant. Yes, I agree that the lack of proper foreshadowing (note: Proper) for the focus of this big event takes away the anticipation and feeling of the explosion, and a mention of a "way to end things for good" or otherwise could change a lot of the execution, but rather than being terrible writing or an asspull, it seems more like Togashi was just too damn subtle beforehand about it happening - a mistake, but not a fatal one. Agreed. But I feel like I need to point out once again, that my problem with the rose, is not whether or not it's an asspull. It's the after math of it's inclusion and it's role in the conclusion of the arc, that I have problem with and consider ''bad writing''. Cresherhsm said: [ As a manga reader, you should know that. Ummmm... |
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GalekC said: kcaco said: I heard Netero say "Shinka", though. Is that not in the original, literal translation? Is shinka another word related to "malice"?Mormegil said: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's infinite potential for evolution." I really loved that line. Netero had a lot of awesome lines, come to think of it. Is that the translation? In the manga, the lines has a double meaning that's lost in translation: the original line is: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's bottomless capability for malice." (here's the line: 人間の底すら無い悪意") Malice (in kanji) as the BIG type, while evolution (also in kanji) is a small print in place of the usual hiragana syllabary that usually accompanied the kanji. I take a look and notice most of the western scanlation also only choose 'evolution' as translation. While in Japanese, the word "MALICE" is the actual keyword that's in lots of discussion, and the one major keyword for one of the major theme of Chimera Ant arc. The line "人間の底すら無い悪意" (humanity's bottomless capacity for malice) is a lot more negative than "humanity's infinite potential for evolution" I just wonder if the western readers has been missing something all these years as oppose to Asian fans. "Humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" was a meme or sort on 2ch, etc. And I wonder why western translator chose to highlight it in a positive spin? Netero's creepy smile and the line "humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" has haunted me (and a lot of readers I'm sure) for a long time. I'm puzzled that the English translation chose a positive spin instead. Shinka is Evolution (進化). Malice is Akui (悪意). so the spoke VO chose to Evolution instead of Malice, hence turn the ominous line into more positive in the anime. In the manga, it's more ambiguous with the double speak of Malice/Evolution. I guess it's one of the limitation of animation format. In the manga, it's either or, or both: The King being a naive victim to humanity bottomless capacity for MALICE. Or Netero is championing humanity's infinite potential for EVOLUTION. I guess it's true for both. Just I prefer the manga (Japanese)'s choice of highlighting Malice instead, it's more sinister and tied into the ending more fittingly. |
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kcaco said: Mormegil said: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's infinite potential for evolution." I really loved that line. Netero had a lot of awesome lines, come to think of it. Is that the translation? In the manga, the lines has a double meaning that's lost in translation: the original line is: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's bottomless capability for malice." (here's the line: 人間の底すら無い悪意") Malice (in kanji) as the BIG type, while evolution (also in kanji) is a small print in place of the usual hiragana syllabary that usually accompanied the kanji. I take a look and notice most of the western scanlation also only choose 'evolution' as translation. While in Japanese, the word "MALICE" is the actual keyword that's in lots of discussion, and the one major keyword for one of the major theme of Chimera Ant arc. The line "人間の底すら無い悪意" (humanity's bottomless capacity for malice) is a lot more negative than "humanity's infinite potential for evolution" I just wonder if the western readers has been missing something all these years as oppose to Asian fans. "Humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" was a meme or sort on 2ch, etc. And I wonder why western translator chose to highlight it in a positive spin? Netero's creepy smile and the line "humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" has haunted me (and a lot of readers I'm sure) for a long time. I'm puzzled that the English translation chose a positive spin instead. This is Viz media translation. ''You know nothing of the bottomless malice within the human heart!!'' |
| ''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi |
| Loving the amount of 5/5s for this episode. Netero was badass till the end. The guy is a beast. And King is pretty much impossible to kill. But I think the bomb was able to take him out. I had a feeling he was going to use some sort of bomb hence the reason for the location. Is the King really dead? If yes I guess Pitou is the main villian of this arc after all. Really excited for next episode. |
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SaSa-Zoldyck said: kcaco said: Mormegil said: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's infinite potential for evolution." I really loved that line. Netero had a lot of awesome lines, come to think of it. Is that the translation? In the manga, the lines has a double meaning that's lost in translation: the original line is: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's bottomless capability for malice." (here's the line: 人間の底すら無い悪意") Malice (in kanji) as the BIG type, while evolution (also in kanji) is a small print in place of the usual hiragana syllabary that usually accompanied the kanji. I take a look and notice most of the western scanlation also only choose 'evolution' as translation. While in Japanese, the word "MALICE" is the actual keyword that's in lots of discussion, and the one major keyword for one of the major theme of Chimera Ant arc. The line "人間の底すら無い悪意" (humanity's bottomless capacity for malice) is a lot more negative than "humanity's infinite potential for evolution" I just wonder if the western readers has been missing something all these years as oppose to Asian fans. "Humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" was a meme or sort on 2ch, etc. And I wonder why western translator chose to highlight it in a positive spin? Netero's creepy smile and the line "humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" has haunted me (and a lot of readers I'm sure) for a long time. I'm puzzled that the English translation chose a positive spin instead. This is Viz media translation. ''You know nothing of the bottomless malice within the human heart!!'' Oooh I love this translation, thanks for sharing. |
| I can't even....I can't...I think I need a moment.... .... Well, that episode blew my mind. So, so ridiculously good. Between this and the announcement earlier, today is a good day for HxH fans. I have a lot of thoughts and I want to attempt to do the episode justice, so I'm just going to ramble and try to sound coherent. First off, the action itself was glorious. Fast-paced, exhilarating, well-choreographed, it was a pleasure to watch. I loved how the King's matches with Komugi became so relevant to this episode, as they were largely the reason the King was able to gain the advanatge on Netero at all. Instead of charging in blind, he actually had a strategy and an idea on how to take down his opponent. The board matches that contributed to his growing humanity helped him "win" here, which is significant for reasons I'll get to later. The dynamic between the King and Netero continued to be fascinating. Netero, in keeping with his thoughts before, continued to refer to the King as an insect, one whom he wanted to crush. The King really was quite arrogant this episode, going on about how great he was and about how Netero had "earned" his respect. But then, why not? He WAS far more powerful than Netero, and like most kings, believed himself to be deserving of his status. The plan he outlined for the human race here is all the evidence you need as to why the King couldn't be allowed to live, and why Netero refused to negotiate with him episodes earlier. Long story short, in Mereuem's plan, he is still the King. He is still the ruler of the world, and the humans are still weaker. And they can't have that. Netero was even more fascinating this episode than the one before. I'd noted to myself before, though I would always forget to mention it in my posts, that Netero's attack, where he always puts his two palms together before he made a move, resembled a prayer. It fit in very well with his spiritual nature. That's why it's so significant that even with his left arm cut off, he could still pray. To the end, Netero never strayed from his beliefs. Arms in general, or lack thereof, has been a recurring motif this arc. Let's recap: Neferpitou cut off Kite's arm, The King tore off his arm, Neferpitou cut off her arm, and and now the King cut off Netero's arm. What's even more interesting is that in every single one of these cases, it has always been the LEFT arm, every time, for four times. The people who do it are significant as well: Neferpitou and Meruem, who both happen to be the two primary antagonists of the arc, to Gon and Netero, respectively. They both tore someone else's arm off, and both ripped off their own, though in the reverse order. Pitou cut off Kite's arm out of a desire for aggression and violence, for no reason but to fight and have fun. In short, it was a hostile, vicious act. Later on, Pitou, after transforming into a different, better person, breaks her arm as a way of apology to Gon, of punishing herself. We had the same situation with the King, but in reverse order and in different contexts. The King first ripped off his arm in his match with Komugi, and just as in Pitou case, did it as a way of apology and self-punishment. In short, it was a gesture of humility and apology. Later on, in this episode, the King cut off Netero's arm, but not because he was vicious or hostile; quite the opposite, his goal was to end the fighting. The fact that the order in which Pitou and the King dealt with arms was reversed is relevant to each individual's character development. Pitou from malice to humility, the King from growing humility to greater humanity. It's both clever and subtle. I'm not sure why Togashi consistently focused on the left arm and not the right. Both in general symbolize strength and support, but in different cultures and philosophies there are specific differences between what the left and right represent. In some cases the left represents judgement, power, enlightenment, etc. I could see why Togashi picked the left, but I won't go into that here. Netero's final attack was incredible, because it's so unlike what's usually seen in this type of manga. It was far more than just a giant power beam; it was the perfect representation of Netero and his faith. The narrator described it as enveloping the King with an "indiscriminate love." The attack is paradoxical: destructive, yet gentle, massive yet strangely silent, with a beautiful array of colors. It's the perfect representation of destructive beauty, and fits with Netero perfectly, the way it devastated the place while seeming oddly spiritual in nature. And despite all that, it is still described as having a "murderous aura." It's contradictory, in a way, much like I found Netero. Here is a man whom obviously was strongly religious and spiritual, and had a very compassionate side. Yet, despite that, he used dirty tactics with the King, looked very malicious in his last moments, and in general in the past few episodes he has come across as rather hostile and sneaky than peaceful and honest. And despite the fact that he dedicated his life to training and that his appearance has strong Buddhist connotation, in the end he tells the King that if there is a hell, he'll meet him there. So basically, despite all that he'd done, Netero ultimately saw himself as a rather evil man, someone who wasn't going to a good place if the afterlife exists. I find that, coupled with his statement about the human race, really though-provoking. The conversation between Netero and the King about evolution was intense. The King was essentially saying that he is the pinnacle of the Ants' evolution, an ultimate being of power, and that humanity by its very nature can't do that, because of their individualism- basically addressing one of the biggest themes of the arc. Netero's counter statement ties in thematically to something that's been referred to the whole arc: both humanity's good and bad. Humans can evolve as well, they can be individualistic while also working together. But that wasn't the main point of Netero's statement. If Netero had just said what he said, with nothing else added to it, it could have been interpreted in either a negative or positive light. It can't be, though, because the imagery employed in that final scene is anything but encouraging or inspiring. It's fearful, it's malicious, it's terrifying, it's evil. Netero's horrific expression, his dead eyes, the shadows, the ominous human skull- the evolution that Netero is referring to is not a progressive evolution in the way the Chimera Ants' evolution was; it's evolution towards greater evil, towards greater destruction. And that is what, ultimately, sets humanity apart from the Chimera Ants: their inherent individualism gives them the capacity to achieve more, to do more, than the Chimera Ants could ever hope to. In short, humanity, far more than the Chimera Ant's ever can, has the greatest potential than any species on Earth to achieve greater levels of EVIL, of malice. Netero's words are accentuated by what happens next: a marvel of technology, of human ingenuity: a nuclear bomb exploding. It obliterates everything, and its sheer destructive power makes it clear just how much humans can achieve. The tragic irony is that humanity itself was what crafted such an awful example of utter inhumanity. In the end, ironically, it was the humans who were the most inhumane, the most vicious, as has been the case in many ways since the Invasion started. And this inhuman device was aimed at the creature that had become the most human of all during the arc: the King. It's named the Rose, which of course is just Togashi being consistent. Roses have been a recurring motif since the Invasion started. I think they appeared in the background at some point during Shoot's fight with Youpi, but the first real, obvious example was during Knuckle's and Youpi's fight. Right when Knuckle was about to die, we see a light red rose appear, with its petals flying away. Light red roses, specifically, symbolize love, compassion, respect, as was entirely appropriate in Knuckle's case. Pink roses appeared in the background last episode with Netero; appropriate as well, as those symbolize gratitude. And finally, this episode, the Rose bomb itself was colored a deep shade of red, not a lighter shade like with Knuckle. The reason? Dark red roses often symbolize mourning, and by extension death. And that was certainly a deathly explosion. |
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Kiniest said: tsudecimo said: Agreed. But I feel like I need to point out once again, that my problem with the rose, is not whether or not it's an asspull. It's the after math of it's inclusion and it's role in the conclusion of the arc, that I have problem with and consider ''bad writing''. Now, I haven't finished the manga, but are you referring to the following bits being nil because of the explosion's inclusion, or are these mutually exclusive instances that you're talking about here when you say it's bad writing? If it's the former, I'll continue to argue with you. If it's the latter, I can't continue because I watch it as it goes along. Regardless, I'm still not very bothered by the inclusion of the explosion - could have been better, but hey, to me, this show has been a gift that's never stopped giving. I do enjoy arguing with you, though. Note: If your initial claim is that it was an asspull, that *will* be what people's rebuttals focus on. Especially on MAL. It's the latter. Which is why I said you will get spoiled, if I give specifics. I'm actually kinda indifferent for the existence of the bomb, I don't remember feeling any dislike, like or shock when I read the manga. I was just not expecting it. It what happens after where the problem lies and it becomes more than being indifferent. But I will agree with what someone above said. This is not as controversial as the future events. |
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| Wow, this fight hsd me in shock. I thought he would self-destruct when he stapped himself instead we have a bomb. The fight was short but I'm not complaining it was just too good. Now I want to see Gon and pitou's fight. |
GuusWayne said: If that's your problem, go to the 2nd page and read my first post, you'll find my answer thereKitsuneKomugi said: No, they can just make that place a forbidden done but the ants would've been gone without any fucking effort. Why bring supernatural shit in the first place if technology is superior? As someone said before this is shit writing and I agree.GuusWayne said: soundscape said: It already happens, what do you think a nuke is for? Why would they hesitate to use it against such a threat when they usually do it casually with the stakes nowhere near as high. Also they could've done it before mtfs gathered, all you needed was Knov's ability to teleport the bomb days before. Like it or not but Togashi pulled some fairy tail shit here. I could've skipped everything from the moment the king was born to this episode and it wouldn't make a difference. Have fun finding your brain cells.GuusWayne said: Guilek said: Those bombs are designed for the very purpose of wiping millions of innocents, a few idiots in a castle don't mean shit when we're talking about the survival of a whole species.GuusWayne said: Np the bomb thing I can sorta understand but it wasn't a creative way to end the king at all. They could've just done that from the begining, it downplays the whole arc, fuck the dragon dive, drop a nuke and exterminate them fucking ants. No need for all the shit that's happened so far. Thanks for killing everyone in the castle with your plan. So basically your reasoning is "They shouldn't give a fak about 5 million people and Nuke the stupid castle from the beginning"..... Seems legit.... I would like to see that happening in real world too.... Easy as fak!!!! Well, I lost some brain cells and have to go find them... good luck and best wishes. The best thing I can say to answer your statement is to keep watching, around episode 131or 132 will give the reason why using the Rose in the palace instead of the testing ground isn't a smart thing to do, that's all I can say without spoiling |
| "Now, let us drink. Let us drink. Drink to the human race. In every age, there will be good humans and bad humans. Human life is too long to devote to reproduction, yet too short to devote to learning, in the helix of time. Perhaps that is why humans succumb to desire and seek release. Despite the fact that life is complete with the sun, the land and poetry." Supreme Leader Diego(Real) (Hunter x Hunter 2011) |
| Amazing episode, every episode that goes by lately i get more and more attached to the show unfortunately knowing its hit the climax recently and eventually will have to end. Extremely happy to see the news the manga is coming back though |
| Wooooooooooooow... |
| That was great, and that explosion at the end was beautiful. I wonder if that really killed the King, it seems like self-sacrifice attacks never seem to work (not to mention the King is pretty much invincible). But could someone explain to me why Netero didn't just run into the castle and kamikaze straight away? He would've wiped out the King and the Royal Guard in a second. EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot about all the thousands of people in the castle courtyard (the ones that were hypnotized by Pouf). |
MinagatachiApr 22, 2014 5:54 PM
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MrAM said: I can't even....I can't...I think I need a moment.... .... Well, that episode blew my mind. So, so ridiculously good. Between this and the announcement earlier, today is a good day for HxH fans. I have a lot of thoughts and I want to attempt to do the episode justice, so I'm just going to ramble and try to sound coherent. First off, the action itself was glorious. Fast-paced, exhilarating, well-choreographed, it was a pleasure to watch. I loved how the King's matches with Komugi became so relevant to this episode, as they were largely the reason the King was able to gain the advanatge on Netero at all. Instead of charging in blind, he actually had a strategy and an idea on how to take down his opponent. The board matches that contributed to his growing humanity helped him "win" here, which is significant for reasons I'll get to later. The dynamic between the King and Netero continued to be fascinating. Netero, in keeping with his thoughts before, continued to refer to the King as an insect, one whom he wanted to crush. The King really was quite arrogant this episode, going on about how great he was and about how Netero had "earned" his respect. But then, why not? He WAS far more powerful than Netero, and like most kings, believed himself to be deserving of his status. The plan he outlined for the human race here is all the evidence you need as to why the King couldn't be allowed to live, and why Netero refused to negotiate with him episodes earlier. Long story short, in Mereuem's plan, he is still the King. He is still the ruler of the world, and the humans are still weaker. And they can't have that. Netero was even more fascinating this episode than the one before. I'd noted to myself before, though I would always forget to mention it in my posts, that Netero's attack, where he always puts his two palms together before he made a move, resembled a prayer. It fit in very well with his spiritual nature. That's why it's so significant that even with his left arm cut off, he could still pray. To the end, Netero never strayed from his beliefs. Arms in general, or lack thereof, has been a recurring motif this arc. Let's recap: Neferpitou cut off Kite's arm, The King tore off his arm, Neferpitou cut off her arm, and and now the King cut off Netero's arm. What's even more interesting is that in every single one of these cases, it has always been the LEFT arm, every time, for four times. The people who do it are significant as well: Neferpitou and Meruem, who both happen to be the two primary antagonists of the arc, to Gon and Netero, respectively. They both tore someone else's arm off, and both ripped off their own, though in the reverse order. Pitou cut off Kite's arm out of a desire for aggression and violence, for no reason but to fight and have fun. In short, it was a hostile, vicious act. Later on, Pitou, after transforming into a different, better person, breaks her arm as a way of apology to Gon, of punishing herself. We had the same situation with the King, but in reverse order and in different contexts. The King first ripped off his arm in his match with Komugi, and just as in Pitou case, did it as a way of apology and self-punishment. In short, it was a gesture of humility and apology. Later on, in this episode, the King cut off Netero's arm, but not because he was vicious or hostile; quite the opposite, his goal was to end the fighting. The fact that the order in which Pitou and the King dealt with arms was reversed is relevant to each individual's character development. Pitou from malice to humility, the King from growing humility to greater humanity. It's both clever and subtle. I'm not sure why Togashi consistently focused on the left arm and not the right. Both in general symbolize strength and support, but in different cultures and philosophies there are specific differences between what the left and right represent. In some cases the left represents judgement, power, enlightenment, etc. I could see why Togashi picked the left, but I won't go into that here. Netero's final attack was incredible, because it's so unlike what's usually seen in this type of manga. It was far more than just a giant power beam; it was the perfect representation of Netero and his faith. The narrator described it as enveloping the King with an "indiscriminate love." The attack is paradoxical: destructive, yet gentle, massive yet strangely silent, with a beautiful array of colors. It's the perfect representation of destructive beauty, and fits with Netero perfectly, the way it devastated the place while seeming oddly spiritual in nature. And despite all that, it is still described as having a "murderous aura." It's contradictory, in a way, much like I found Netero. Here is a man whom obviously was strongly religious and spiritual, and had a very compassionate side. Yet, despite that, he used dirty tactics with the King, looked very malicious in his last moments, and in general in the past few episodes he has come across as rather hostile and sneaky than peaceful and honest. And despite the fact that he dedicated his life to training and that his appearance has strong Buddhist connotation, in the end he tells the King that if there is a hell, he'll meet him there. So basically, despite all that he'd done, Netero ultimately saw himself as a rather evil man, someone who wasn't going to a good place if the afterlife exists. I find that, coupled with his statement about the human race, really though-provoking. The conversation between Netero and the King about evolution was intense. The King was essentially saying that he is the pinnacle of the Ants' evolution, an ultimate being of power, and that humanity by its very nature can't do that, because of their individualism- basically addressing one of the biggest themes of the arc. Netero's counter statement ties in thematically to something that's been referred to the whole arc: both humanity's good and bad. Humans can evolve as well, they can be individualistic while also working together. But that wasn't the main point of Netero's statement. If Netero had just said what he said, with nothing else added to it, it could have been interpreted in either a negative or positive light. It can't be, though, because the imagery employed in that final scene is anything but encouraging or inspiring. It's fearful, it's malicious, it's terrifying, it's evil. Netero's horrific expression, his dead eyes, the shadows, the ominous human skull- the evolution that Netero is referring to is not a progressive evolution in the way the Chimera Ants' evolution was; it's evolution towards greater evil, towards greater destruction. And that is what, ultimately, sets humanity apart from the Chimera Ants: their inherent individualism gives them the capacity to achieve more, to do more, than the Chimera Ants could ever hope to. In short, humanity, far more than the Chimera Ant's ever can, has the greatest potential than any species on Earth to achieve greater levels of EVIL, of malice. Netero's words are accentuated by what happens next: a marvel of technology, of human ingenuity: a nuclear bomb exploding. It obliterates everything, and its sheer destructive power makes it clear just how much humans can achieve. The tragic irony is that humanity itself was what crafted such an awful example of utter inhumanity. In the end, ironically, it was the humans who were the most inhumane, the most vicious, as has been the case in many ways since the Invasion started. And this inhuman device was aimed at the creature that had become the most human of all during the arc: the King. It's named the Rose, which of course is just Togashi being consistent. Roses have been a recurring motif since the Invasion started. I think they appeared in the background at some point during Shoot's fight with Youpi, but the first real, obvious example was during Knuckle's and Youpi's fight. Right when Knuckle was about to die, we see a light red rose appear, with its petals flying away. Light red roses, specifically, symbolize love, compassion, respect, as was entirely appropriate in Knuckle's case. Pink roses appeared in the background last episode with Netero; appropriate as well, as those symbolize gratitude. And finally, this episode, the Rose bomb itself was colored a deep shade of red, not a lighter shade like with Knuckle. The reason? Dark red roses often symbolize mourning, and by extension death. And that was certainly a deathly explosion. Awesome.. also just for you |
| Das Feenreich! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUvxzKt5GoM |
| is anyone else sorta disappointed that meruem didnt have any nen abilities? only physical strength and speed.( i dont really count his ability to absorb power from the ppl he consumes.) hell, even ikalgo and welfin have nen abilities. otherwise amazing episode! rip netero |
| Holy shit... Does this finally mark the ending of this arc? This episode was by far the best episode of this arc, maybe even of this series. |
| Madhouse knocking it out of the park as usual |
| Great episode!!! Really awesome fight. I LOVE MADHOUSE!! 6/5 |
Cresherhsm said: tsudecimo said: Ummmm... What? Although the foreshadowing at the end of episode 88 didn't have bomb written all over it, it did get the job done. It wasn't obvious but it wasn't vague either and it was also laid down at the best place possible, before their initial attack on NGL Netero had a plan that involved sacrificing someone to complete their mission as a last resort, the rose fits. Given the new invasion plan, the possibilities for how they could kill the King by sacrificing someone become even less. Most of the invasion group were tasked with separating the King from his Royal Guards so that Netero could have the King all for himself. I linked that post to let you know that I already know the theme behind it. I guess you are on to a new argument. Umm, no, I heavily disagree with this. If you wanna say that it's not an asspull because of that subtle hint when they arrived at the battlefield, then sure I can understand what you are coming for. But that line is incredibly vague, and doesn't hint at the bomb or the possibility of it whatsoever. It hints at the possibility of Netero sacrificing himself. It's a generic line that imply how dangerous the mission is. Having the king for himself, was so he can fight him. I agree with what Setsuko said, the plan to separate the king was more of Netero's selfish desire to fight, than for the bomb plan. There were no hints that implied that Netero had a plan involving sacrificing himself. The sacrifice could have happened simply by Netero using all his power or being have dead with that zero attack, if Togashi were not to use the bomb plot device. Since you know the word ''sacrifice'' itself could have meant a lot of things. |
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noobalm said: I expected the other old man to fight as they were presented like two different sides of each other... I agree that it's pretty stupid that bombs can be so powerful in this series universe... Automatic weapons and etc. are useless but bombs are very powerful and it's not even possible to evade it? The need to perform harakiri by stopping his own heart was pretty silly, why can't he just throw the bomb? Think all the powers and hunters we have seen.... The power of Nen doesn't even come close to a destructive power of an atomic bomb..... (the strongest Nen attack in destructive power would probably be Netero's Zero Hand) Because in the case Meruem killed him the bomb goes.... BOOOOM!!!! |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
noobalm said: I expected the other old man to fight as they were presented like two different sides of each other... I agree that it's pretty stupid that bombs can be so powerful in this series universe... Automatic weapons and etc. are useless but bombs are very powerful and it's not even possible to evade it? The need to perform harakiri by stopping his own heart was pretty silly, why can't he just throw the bomb? I don't know for sure since I don't read the manga or maybe it is never really mentioned, but I think it is pretty clear that that bomb was a nuclear bomb of some sort. Because of that fact, even if you are on the outskirts of the bomb, it can still have devastating effects. I couldn't help but remember atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki when I saw the explosion at the end. And those two bombs had enormous effects on the lives of people living in those two areas for countless years. Considering how close Meruem was to Netero, it is safe to say that if he did not die from the explosion or heat, he would die quickly from dehydration, radiation, or something of that sort. |
| I can proudly say this is one of my favourite eps of HxH. Pure Epicness.Just LEGEN-(WAIT FOR IT)- DARY. |
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xmaikokoro said: noobalm said: I expected the other old man to fight as they were presented like two different sides of each other... I agree that it's pretty stupid that bombs can be so powerful in this series universe... Automatic weapons and etc. are useless but bombs are very powerful and it's not even possible to evade it? The need to perform harakiri by stopping his own heart was pretty silly, why can't he just throw the bomb? I don't know for sure since I don't read the manga or maybe it is never really mentioned, but I think it is pretty clear that that bomb was a nuclear bomb of some sort. Because of that fact, even if you are on the outskirts of the bomb, it can still have devastating effects. I couldn't help but remember atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki when I saw the explosion at the end. And those two bombs had enormous effects on the lives of people living in those two areas for countless years. Considering how close Meruem was to Netero, it is safe to say that if he did not die from the explosion or heat, he would die quickly from dehydration, radiation, or something of that sort. For all intents and purposes, that was definitely an atomic bomb. |
Andan210Apr 22, 2014 6:28 PM
| The only True Ending is the Harem Ending. |
kcaco said: That's pretty awesome.Makes much more sense, and things get even darker.Thanks!In the manga, the lines has a double meaning that's lost in translation: the original line is: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's bottomless capability for malice." (here's the line: 人間の底すら無い悪意") Malice (in kanji) as the BIG type, while evolution (also in kanji) is a small print in place of the usual hiragana syllabary that usually accompanied the kanji. I take a look and notice most of the western scanlation also only choose 'evolution' as translation. While in Japanese, the word "MALICE" is the actual keyword that's in lots of discussion, and the one major keyword for one of the major theme of Chimera Ant arc. The line "人間の底すら無い悪意" (humanity's bottomless capacity for malice) is a lot more negative than "humanity's infinite potential for evolution" I just wonder if the western readers has been missing something all these years as oppose to Asian fans. "Humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" was a meme or sort on 2ch, etc. And I wonder why western translator chose to highlight it in a positive spin? Netero's creepy smile and the line "humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" has haunted me (and a lot of readers I'm sure) for a long time. I'm puzzled that the English translation chose a positive spin instead. |
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| I don't.. even know what to say (just like some of those York New arc episodes this ones going into my favorites) truly amazes me even with a episode like this people will still find something to complain about you can't win! lol RIP Netero even when i thought you were at your end you kept going like a boss |
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| thats its anime form can only go downhill from now |
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Cresherhsm said: Check out my post in page 13. As for the line not hinting towards the bomb, it hinted towards any possibility that fit "sacrificing someone to complete the mission" and the rose fits. Well that's just too broad and not specific. Which means Togashi could have used anything else and you wouldn't have noticed a difference or wondered if he changed what he wanted to do from the beginning. Hence why this is a foreshadowing for Netero's sacrifice whatever that would have turned, and not the rose. Cresherhsm said: The line in episode 88 referred to anyone on the invasion team, including Netero himself. Yeah but how does that imply that he had a plan? someone will be sacrificed doesn't it was part of a intended plan. Cresherhsm said: Sure but in the way it was used? Not a lot, especially when you consider the invasion plan. But here we go back to the root of the issue. The line is generic, open for many interpretations and really vague. It setups for many possibilities without specifically hinting for a specific conclusion that only it fits. Cresherhsm said: A last effort nen attack that cost the user's life is also a possibility but the rose bomb fit Netero's line in episode 88 more. It cost a person his life as opposed to his life energy and the method (implanting a bomb) could be used by anyone on the invasion team as opposed to Zero which could only be used by Netero. Apparently, zero wasn't the sacrifice Netero and Togashi had in mind. We will have to agree to disagree here. I mean it's not really a problem really. Because like I said before tsudecimo said: But I feel like I need to point out once again, that my problem with the rose, is not whether or not it's an asspull. It's the after math of it's inclusion and it's role in the conclusion of the arc, that I have problem with and consider ''bad writing''. |
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| The point was that humans are far more evil than the ants, the ants act on instinct but humans also act knowing what they are doing they are conscious about it, torture, rape, brutal murders etc... the ants had no chance. jirico said: This episode was really epic. But Netero's strategy opens an OP precedent, where in every fight you can just attach a nuclear bomb in your body and kill your opponent if he kills you first... that is cheating. And another thing that bothers me is that the king HAD NO SPECIAL NEN ABILITY!! If he is so powerful he could make an ability like a force shield that revests him to garantee he would survive unexpected incoming attacks. He had to otherwise humanity would have ended cause meruem's nen ability is that he gets his opponents nen, so meruem + netero's nen= the end of humanity. |
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| That was amazing... bravo indeed |
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| The real winners this episode are Madhouse, they did an incredible job with this episode. I gotta say, I'm disappointed that the bomb was a military bomb, instead of a bomb with all of Netero's Nen exploding. They really could've nuked the castle, before all the citizens had gathered out the front. |
tsudecimo said: Ichinoez said: Call it an aspull or whatever you want but the way Togashi sets up his ideas for an arc is different from others. He plans the start and ending of the arc first and asks himself questions like "How can I resolve the arc/ fights in a way that hasn't been done before" He attempts to create an unique ending or resolution that few or none has done before and the middle part of the arc is what he has to come up with as he goes. Sure Togashi puts and setup different ideas and what not, but that is not inherently a good thing or a guarantee for quality. Perfect example imo is the Chimera ant arc, where the different aspects were handled poorly. I'm not sure I would call a suicidal bomb ''original'' or ''never done before''. Don't get me wrong I think Togashi is one of the best mangaka out there in terms of imaginary, execution, ideas and writing, and HxH is my second favorite battle anime of all time but Togashi dropped the ball on this arc. This is no where close to Yorknew's quality imo, with the inconsistencies, the asspulls and possible deus ex machina, the focus on trivial characters, the pesudo psychological parts, the handling of Gon's character, the ending, the narration, the pacing and the length. To each his own. Alright, I'm going to give my two cents here. I'm not going to even bother looking through the last 2 pages of this forum, because damn. First off don't go poking fun at someone speaking our language that is not a native speaker! That is flat out bigotry. More over, if you are going to pull that crap, at least learn proper grammar and spelling yourself: otherwise known as the golden rule (do unto others as you would have done unto yourself). Personally, I know people make mistakes so I think we should be more forgiving of them with that in mind. I make mistakes all the time, and I'd most certainly like to be forgiven for them (whether or not I am deserving of said forgiveness.) You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. I will not deny that in your perspective, this was an ass pull. Personally, I think there is enough evidence beforehand to point you towards this direction, which is really what you want to do. You don't want to spell out your ending, nor do you want it to come out of no where (an ass pull). I will say there COULD have been a bit more foreshadowing, but I don't think it would have necessarily improved the story all that much. Now then, I'd like to say you make some very important points here. I didn't personally enjoy the first half to 2/3 of this arc nearly as much as the others. It wasn't the best arc up till this point (again, in my opinion.) I'd say that, since the event around the beginning of the infiltration, this arc really picked up and I would definitely put this episode up there in my top anime battle scenes. It was fantastic on multiple levels: the meaning, symbolism, strategy, intensity, etc. etc. Now then, if nothing else I would say that if this were an ass pull there are still all too many other series that are more popular than Hunter x Hunter that pull **** out of no where more often, much more blatantly, and even base their plots around said ass pulls (i.e. multiple specific examples could be taken from Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, etc.) Personally, the fact that they do have such an excess of "ass pulls", I've found, doesn't nearly out weigh the instances in which the shows are very well done and enjoyable. So as you said, just because it is or isn't an ass pull doesn't necessarily mean much of anything. As for the suicide bomb not being very original... I don't think you understood what they were referring to (but I may be wrong.) From what I could tell, they are referring to the use of a suicide bomb in this sort of superpower battle shounen. Quite honestly, this sort of thing doesn't happen at all in this genre. It is often a bit too bleak for these shows, and when you have a potentially endless supply of superpowers and the such to cover, it is most certainly a rarity to rely on something you'd see as (normally) unoriginal. It is precisely that mental perspective which prevented other authors from incorporating this into their battle shounen up till now (well... whenever the manga came out.) Because it hadn't been done before or rarely had been done before in these battle shounens, the suicide bomb is actually a nice change of pace, which is slightly ironic since in most other cases people would have the exact opposite response. |
Raidol said: The real winners this episode are Madhouse, they did an incredible job with this episode. I gotta say, I'm disappointed that the bomb was a military bomb, instead of a bomb with all of Netero's Nen exploding. They really could've nuked the castle, before all the citizens had gathered out the front. But this is just 'in hindsight' talk... They could have nuke the queen ant's nest before the guard's born. They could have nuke NGL to prevent eco terror to begin with etc etc. You can keep going back. But the leader of the operation, Netero, wanted to fight the King first. In fact he made sure the King was born so he could have a match in the first place...which seal his own fate. |
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