| I do understand that most people think this way, however the arguments presuppose many assumptions that may or may not be true. For one, I would contest that there is innate value to life aside from experience: P1. Everything we are aware of is a result of experience. P2. We cannot value anything that we are not aware of. C1. We cannot value anything that is not a result of experience. To be sure, we might as well take this opportunity to also contest that there is any inherent value in the content of events: P1. It is conceivable that for any given event e, 3 people could perceive e as being either negative, neutral, or positive experience. P2. C1 is true. C2. We can only value the perception of experience for any given event. C3. As far as we're concerned, there cannot be inherent value in any event. This one's a little redundant, but it must be made clear that when we are talking about experiences, we are talking about the mind's perspective, a specific feeling at time t, and not about the actual events. Next, I'll propose 2 possible approaches: Baseline/Tenseless Approach Because C1-C3 are true, the worst and best feeling a person could truly know must be something he has experienced. The value of any current experience is determined by evaluating its relation according to the moving average of all past experience, where because the moving average is the "baseline" it will be considered neutral. Therefore, the sum of values of experiences over any significant time approaches neutral. Discontinuity/Tensed Approach Because C1-C3 are true, the only thing a person at current time t truly knows is his experience at t. E is determined by a sum of E(t±n), where E(t) has maximum consideration, and the consideration decreases as n increases.  In other words, the further into the distant past or future it is, the less it affects the current experience (too lazy to come up with actual equations like Nequam did). As such, since all experiences are not given the same consideration at any evaluation, the length of life beyond n*2 is irrelevant. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Mostly because someone has to clean up the mess...dying isn't exactly a clean business you know. First there's the dead body to deal with, the mess left at the location of death, other damages caused by the suicide. All the responsibilities/debts/business matters left behind by the deceased. |
Necroflare said: So is it financial? Would it be okay if the suicide has it all prepared and paid for?Mostly because someone has to clean up the mess...dying isn't exactly a clean business you know. First there's the dead body to deal with, the mess left at the location of death, other damages caused by the suicide. All the responsibilities/debts/business matters left behind by the deceased. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
Necroflare said: Mostly because someone has to clean up the mess...dying isn't exactly a clean business you know. First there's the dead body to deal with, the mess left at the location of death, other damages caused by the suicide. All the responsibilities/debts/business matters left behind by the deceased. Ohmygod that's not what its about, and noone thinks like that, if someone i knew died it wouldn't be a burden to take care of them, nor should it be cuz if they were still alive they would be good to me and even f they weren't karma will balance out someday and by doing good others will do good to you. Its about something beautiful being lost without them realizing what they had was wonderful. |
“It’s fascinating. You know all these words, and they’re all English, but when you string them together into sentences, they just don’t make any sense.” |
sydrian said: Its about something beautiful being lost without them realizing what they had was wonderful.  This guy thought murder was beautiful and wishes more people saw it that way. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: sydrian said: Its about something beautiful being lost without them realizing what they had was wonderful. This guy thought murder was beautiful and wishes more people saw it that way. Thats different |
“It’s fascinating. You know all these words, and they’re all English, but when you string them together into sentences, they just don’t make any sense.” |
| No, it's not... Some people might think that suicide is beautiful and that life is actually a waste of time. CAN YOU ARGUE THAT? OHOHOHO, YOU CAN'T HUEHUEHUE. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| i think suicide is quite a good escape route but if i were to imagine what i type of death i'll do for myself i cant think of anything that seems easy. no matter how i look at it i imagine it will hurt. oh, yeah, and most of the time its bad because of the consequences for others. i recently thought the idea about disappearing is quite interesting.u know, to suddenly stop living without having to die and make the world go on like u never existed at all. *i wish we have that option* |
katsucats said: There's no objective goal to life Yes there is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_hrYz_2uAk&feature=player_detailpage#t=198s |
 |
Gripsocks said: On a more important topic though I really dislike how because of things like bullying people think it's okay to blame others for suicide. There is not such thing as a mental edge where you just get pushed over and can never climb back up from. Suicide is a choice no matter how bad bullying may be suicide is no one else's choice but the person who does it. That's one way to look at it, but another way to look at it is that no one actually wants to die, some people just see it as their only way to escape. Not everyone is offered useful help by others, sometimes it's up to the said person to devise a plan all by him/her'self.. so what happens if the said person isn't smart enough to do that? He/she is stuck being tortured forever |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
katsucats said: There's no objective goal to life, no objective valuation for our experiences. If someone makes his peace with death, then that's more than what could be said for most of us. In fact, aren't each of us constantly --even if it's subconsciously-- wrestling with our purpose? Someone finds it and we call him a coward. Yet we all die someday. Having a short one does not mean having a bad one. Invalid question with lots of invalid responses. You can do whatever you want, just because 90% of humans believe it's "wrong", nothing will happen, they will just assume ridiculous things in ridiculous concepts such as you will go to hell, which obviously is not provable. I am, however, happy somehow ( not that any of you care of course ), to see what you wrote in the beginning, and see that there are other people who realize life has no meaning and we're not more important than dust, except in our minds, where we think and it's normal to do so, think that we are the most important. And no, nobody would be called a coward because it's ridiculous for somebody to come up with an idea. What would he say " I have found the meaning ! the meaning is that we do this ! or that !" ... let's not be foolish. You make your own fictional meaning in your own little space, thinking about death or actually applying it matters as much as when you kill any other creature or when it just dies by another cause, you will never know it happen and never think it did. One more small thing, saying that life's purpose is life itself is sort of like saying "The purpose is drinking water is drinking water" . Playing with words like that doesn't make a real statement. |
Kyousuke_MMar 5, 2013 3:16 PM
| It's very selfish of people to ask you to keep living just for their sake, so I don't think "Because there's people that love you" is a very valuable reason. As for an actual answer, I don't have one. |
| You really like asking very dumb questions don't you? You know damn well that this entire premise is utterly and completely subjective to each individual. You also know that it's an unanswerable question that has no definite answer. So you create these retarded threads using the same basic pattern in an attempt to boost your fragile ego. This thread has no meaning or real purpose. |
| ^ this Another reason philosophy majors don't earn any money XD!!!!!!!!! |
DeathCl0ck said: This thread has no meaning or real purpose. Entertainment Learning about others |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
Ghostony said: DeathCl0ck said: This thread has no meaning or real purpose. Entertainment Learning about others sorry I don't learn anything about people with mathematical models about philosophical questions LMAO |
DeathCl0ck said: You really like asking very dumb questions don't you? You know damn well that this entire premise is utterly and completely subjective to each individual. You also know that it's an unanswerable question that has no definite answer. So you create these retarded threads using the same basic pattern in an attempt to boost your fragile ego. This thread has no meaning or real purpose. You can't very well have a discussion about a question with a definite answer. The fact that the premise is subjective to each individual only makes it a better thread. People share their opinions, people debate their opinions, people discuss their opinions. That's kind of the point here isn't it? By your logic, no thread would have any meaning or purpose. Maybe you should sign up for an account here, I think this is more what you're looking for: http://answers.yahoo.com/ |
 |
Mithiq said: Giving up doesn't mean your weak, it means your strong enough to let go... When it comes to problems i totally agree with you. Life isnt a problem |
“It’s fascinating. You know all these words, and they’re all English, but when you string them together into sentences, they just don’t make any sense.” |
Mithiq said: That sounds like something a hikikomori would say.Giving up doesn't mean your weak, it means your strong enough to let go... |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
katsucats said: I don't like to judge others unless they judge me, my opinion on suicide and why I would never consider it no matter how bad things where is that it's a cowards way out, I would rather fight and live off of nothing than die doing nothing or die in vain.There's no objective goal to life, no objective valuation for our experiences. If someone makes his peace with death, then that's more than what could be said for most of us. In fact, aren't each of us constantly --even if it's subconsciously-- wrestling with our purpose? Someone finds it and we call him a coward. Yet we all die someday. Having a short one does not mean having a bad one. I'm atheist so I don't think I'll burn in hell or anything it's just my personality to not give up on things and always "die fighting" I'm not a very stubborn person either I just don't think dieing can justify what you've done or what's happened to you, I believe that if you've done something to merit you wanting you kill yourself you should try to make amends through future actions or if something that's done to you that would make you want to kill yourself you should perform various actions so that it doesn't happen to other people. Edit: Grammar |
alex70031Mar 7, 2013 6:57 PM
 Serial lurker |
| Not respecting your parents who gave you the life? That's the only reason I can think that suicide is considered a bad thing. |
I ♥ Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!! |
tsubasalover said: Not respecting your parents who gave you the life? That's the only reason I can think that suicide is considered a bad thing. Why would someone who wants to commit suicide respect the people who gave them the life that they obviously don't want? |
كنت تهدر وقتك عن طريق ترجمة هذه. mattbenz99 said: Christians and Satanists are technically the same thing |
| In all honesty, it takes a lot more courage and determination to actually kill yourself then you think. Doing nothing about your situation is the weak way out~ |
DeathCl0ck said: You also know that it's an unanswerable question that has no definite answer. We can still have it here for the sake of discussion. |
| There is no meaning to life? Each individual creates their own meaning. If you honestly think there is no meaning in life then you are doing something wrong. However... to get back on-topic. Suicide is not necessarily bad, but I will always think it is the easy way out. Of course it is hard to know what a person is going through, but there is so much to enjoy in life. It is truly a waste. The after effects are bad, as been explained a couple of times already. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
katsucats said: There's no objective goal to life, no objective valuation for our experiences. If someone makes his peace with death, then that's more than what could be said for most of us. In fact, aren't each of us constantly --even if it's subconsciously-- wrestling with our purpose? Someone finds it and we call him a coward. Yet we all die someday. Having a short one does not mean having a bad one. the goal of life is to find your purpose in life, find what makes you happy and gives you peace. I don't underdstand how more people can't be saying "WTF" to this post. suicide is never the answer. Life is a struggle but all those struggles make it so much sweeter when you finally find your purpose. Also people who kill themselves dont make peace with their death before they do it, they're people who feel trapped in a corner with nowhere and no one to turn too. So much damage is done to family and loved ones as well. Think of the person/people you care for the most in life and imagine if one day they just killed themselves... you can't honestly still tell me theres no value in life. |
sydrian said: Mithiq said: Giving up doesn't mean your weak, it means your strong enough to let go... When it comes to problems i totally agree with you. Life isnt a problem thank you, thank you, thank you |
| Well there's nothing positive or good about suicide either it's one's choice and will to live, if they don't want to continue on then it's their problem |
| save all the cute girls from ntr manga |
| Your bascially saying I dont care about anything but My self and your being selfish in a way regardless of what point of view you look at it from Its bad |
 |
Goryo said: tsubasalover said: Not respecting your parents who gave you the life? That's the only reason I can think that suicide is considered a bad thing. Why would someone who wants to commit suicide respect the people who gave them the life that they obviously don't want? That's the problem. They don't think about their parents when committing suicide, and that automatically categorizes the "suiciders" as are ungrateful children. |
I ♥ Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!! |
| Cause I imagine most people that kill themselves didn't sign a release form for people to collect your organs retinas and what not. Then your death isn't really benefiting anyone. Also funerals are really expensive =/ |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
necrojesta said: Suicide > impacts everyone around you, inconveniences them and hurts them emotionally > suicide due to fleeting pessimism (you probably just finished watching Welcome to the NHK or some shit) = you suuuuuck That's pretty much how I see it. If I offed my ass, my wife would be left grieving a husband she loved, she'd be left with all the bills and shit etc. It'd destroy her life. So I'd be a complete tool if I did that and would deserve an enternity in hell stuck in a cage naked with the Swedish hockey team and a bottomless jar of lube. But if I didn't have her, I'd see no reason why giving my body to the worms would be a bad thing if I truly felt like life had nothing left to offer me and/or living on would just bring me more pain and misery. |
tsubasalover said: Goryo said: tsubasalover said: Not respecting your parents who gave you the life? That's the only reason I can think that suicide is considered a bad thing. Why would someone who wants to commit suicide respect the people who gave them the life that they obviously don't want? That's the problem. They don't think about their parents when committing suicide, and that automatically categorizes the "suiciders" as are ungrateful children. So.... just because daddy didn't slip a condom on his willy, people should feel obligated to live out a "shitty pointless life"? |
كنت تهدر وقتك عن طريق ترجمة هذه. mattbenz99 said: Christians and Satanists are technically the same thing |
tsubasalover said: Not respecting your parents who gave you the life? That's the only reason I can think that suicide is considered a bad thing. I think a better question is, do all parents deserve respect? Some do, but most don't. |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Battlechili1 said: Anyways, suicide is selfish. When someone commits suicide, they leave it everyone elses responsibility to pay to bury the body First of all, I believe it's already been mentioned in this thread, but it's equally selfish for someone to use "you're precious to me" as an excuse in an attempt to prevent someone from committing suicide. And concerning "burying the body" what if they elected to be cremated? Battlechili1 said: Also, suicide is very much a foolish action. Few people actually want to die. So, what of those "few people who actually want to die"? is suicide a foolish action for them? who are you to determine whether their last action on this earth was foolish? Battlechili1 said: For you, maybe. The "plenty of reasons" that you have may be vastly outweighed by the reasons to die by someone who is inclined to commit suicide. In fact, the reasons you choose to live for may be the reasons someone chooses to commit suicide over.People mainly just hate having such a terrible life. People have tough times handling the stresses and hardships of life. People sometimes lose hope and decide there's no point to go on. However, there are plenty of reasons to go on living. Battlechili1 said: Just as there are terrible things in life, there are wonderful things, and I would think that most people would want to experience those happy things. Certainly there are both terrible and happy things in life, but in the perspective of the person who wishes to commit suicide, I'd imagine that they'd be inclined to believe that the balance between "terrible" and "happy" is skewed towards the former. Who are you to judge them for believing in something different from you? who are you to judge them for enacting upon those beliefs that differ from yours? |
GoryoMar 10, 2013 12:02 AM
كنت تهدر وقتك عن طريق ترجمة هذه. mattbenz99 said: Christians and Satanists are technically the same thing |
Battlechili1 said: Who am I to do these things? A friendly boy who cares about all of humanity, and all human life, who wants people to experience life to the fullest. What if the person who wishes to commit suicide does not care about all of humanity? or indeed, themselves? What if they believe they've already lived their life to the fullest? Battlechili1 said: To argue back, suicidal people may indeed be in a right state of mind, but if I'm right, more often then not, suicidal people aren't thinking about everything. Usually, it's just "I can't take it anymore!" and it leads to that. Why do I think this? A number of reasons, one being that I myself have the thought in my head come nearly everyday now "Kill yourself", meaning in my head I constantly tell myself to kill myself. But I refuse. I'm not a suicidal person, merely a person who's under a lot of stress lately. Luckily for me, I'm on vacation for the week, so that stress is subsiding and those thoughts are vanishing. People need to take time to relax and think very hard before deciding to commit suicide, for one. Some people who wish to commit suicide may not have the luxury of taking a vacation. They may be living in poverty and struggling to pay for each and every meal. |
كنت تهدر وقتك عن طريق ترجمة هذه. mattbenz99 said: Christians and Satanists are technically the same thing |
Battlechili1 said: but they do have the luxury to think, right? In some cases, no. |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
| Well for starters it's bad for the economy when skilled workers start killing themselves left right and centre! LOL But no, on a moral basis suicide is wrong because you're running away from life, and life is a challenge for everyone, nobody "has it easy" although you may think so but your perception is relative. |
apatch3 said: But no, on a moral basis suicide is wrong because you're running away from life, and life is a challenge for everyone, nobody "has it easy" although you may think so but your perception is relative. Taking a look at a homeless person, I don't think that you're thinking: "What a stoic and strong person he is!". |
| LUL |
one-more-time said: apatch3 said: But no, on a moral basis suicide is wrong because you're running away from life, and life is a challenge for everyone, nobody "has it easy" although you may think so but your perception is relative. Taking a look at a homeless person, I don't think that you're thinking: "What a stoic and strong person he is!". Actually no...that's exactly what I'm thinking. I mean clearly I feel bad for their circumstance but I admire anybody who lives through adversity. |
apatch3 said: Well for starters it's bad for the economy when skilled workers start killing themselves left right and centre! LOL But no, on a moral basis suicide is wrong because you're running away from life, and life is a challenge for everyone, nobody "has it easy" although you may think so but your perception is relative. Most people that dont want to go on with their life dont just think; this life is way to hard! They have been true months/years of deppresion mostly. Not everyone gets into a long deppresion like that! So saying that everyone doesnt have an easy life is just stupid.. |
 |
Why is suicide considered a bad thing? Maybe because it is ? |
| Insert wise quote here |
OneHellOfAuser said: Why is suicide considered a bad thing? Maybe because it is ? That's a nice and logical explanation. Please, tell us more. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
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