Overrated?
Homerun-Chan said: Boku no Pico is god-tier stuff. What the hell are people complaining about? Boku no Pico is an intellectual anime. For the chosen ones. |
| Aren't the majority of the shows on this website over-rated? There's a minority of users who genuinely rate from both the heart and with the understanding of "bad" a show is. Frankly, I think the art & animation are excellent, the characters are fully enjoyable even if some if not all of them are predictable, and the story is being adapted from a visual novel. The VA is very popular from what I know & there's a fair amount of complexity with what's involved in it. I can't say that Fate/Zero is the best adaptation of that work, but it's certainly doing better than Fate/Stay Night (which I can say I did not enjoy as much as I'm enjoying this show). FSN still got an 8 from me because I hadn't played any of the VN's before, so everything was pretty dazzling. I also make an effort not to change any scores I've given in the past since I can look back on those scores & understand/see my progression in tastes over the years. |
| きみ は だれ だい？ ぼく は ラムボ！ ぼく は だれ だい？ きみ は ラムボ！ ラムボ なんでし！ |
| Ahem... -Caps Lock Mode Engaged- BACK TO THE GODDAMN TOPIC!!! -Caps Lock Mode Disengaged- Fate/Zero is definitely not overrated. There are tons of Anime that should objectively be higher than it in the rankings, sure, but there are also many that should be lower. Yeah, it did have several spots where it just dragged out, and others where it was being a bit silly. But in the most part, it had just the right amount of action and dialogue, as well as stellar animation and being top-notch in the sound department. And here I want to give my opinion on 2 subjects previously discussed here: a) It's flat-out wrong to count enjoyment as a minor factor when judging any Anime series. It's not about personal preference on rating systems and it's not really something you can argue with - it's anime, it's part of the entertainment industry, it's produced to ENTERTAIN people. It only makes sense that it will be rated heavily on how it accomplished that goal. If it manages to be deeper than the combined manuscripts of all ancient greek philosophers and has the visual/audio quality of Avatar, but somehow ends up being less enjoyable than a 2-hour powerpoint presentation on the reproduction of pine trees taking place at 4pm on a Friday (trust me, I've been in one of those, they're the worst thing that can happen to you that doesn't involve any physical injuries), then the producers did something horribly wrong. And if you make something as stupid as Beelzebub, but somehow make the damn thing funny and enjoyable, you should be rewarded for it in the ratings you recieve. Enjoyment can of course be substituted with other things if it makes sense - for example you should rate most dramas based on how much you were emotionally moved during the whole thing instead of if you enjoyed it, as you can only enjoy dramas in the real meaning of the word if (a) they were so horrible they were funny or (b) you're a psycho. b) Rating something before it finishes is definitely not bad. If anything, it helps people see which of the shows currently airing are good and which are bad, without having to watch a several episodes for themselves first. In the end, MAL doesn't even factor in scores of people that have not completed at least a good chunk of whatever they're rating. And let's admit it - if a series seems to be worth a 7 after 6-7 episodes, it's highly unlikely that it will jump to 9-10 or fall to 4-5 by it's end. And that score will be changing as time goes by anyway, unless you drop the series, in which case of course the score does have the purpose of "It was that bad at the beginning that I dropped it" and should be factored in nontheless, provided of course that you didn't drop it in the first few episodes when the thing had barely started. That's why I almost always start giving ratings at about episode 6-7, and so far the initial score I have given has always been practically identical to the one that stood by the end, give or take 1 point (except for a couple shows like Ergo Proxy, which started off as a masterpiece and then at halfpoint they seemingly replaced the scriptwriter with some baboon or something). Though I'll agree that giving a 10 before the ending is just stupid - even the last 10 minutes of a series can make it drop from a perfect 10 to 5 or below (as Bioware demonstrated earlier this year with Mass Effect 3) Also, this is not a second season in any way other than that the series was split into 2 parts - this is episode 14 out of 26, everyone already knows how the art and sound of the series is, has a good understanding of the characters and pretty much knows where the story is going (anyone who watched f/sn already knows the ending and the major plot point that will follow in the next episodes). All in all, enough to form an opinion that will hold unless something very unexpected happens. Tl;dr : Rating Zero in all 10s right now is just stupid. But overall it's not overated. |
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Topgunuk69 said: Solkiskey said: Okaishi said: Solkiskey said: Why not? How does having higher standards change anything in an argument? It's not like he was saying "this shit sucks" without properly justifying himself, he actually wrote why he thought the anime sucked. Jesus people. Are you implying he dislikes Fate/Zero because he has higher standards? I can't see anything but him criticizing it out of personal dislike rather than him being more sophisticated than the average Fate/Zero viewer who did like the show. I can dislike a ton of shows too and back it up with some silly arguments, but that doesn't mean I have "higher standards." If you look at his reviews and his comments on his anime list, then you'd be able to figure out he is more picky about shows. Or is that you can't accept negative opinions of Fate/Zero? He's not taking issue with someone having a less positive opinion of the show than he does. He's taking issue with you chalking his ratings up to "higher standards". It's not because of higher standards, it's because of different standards, different taste. I mean for one thing he scored Deen's Fate/Stay Night Anime 2 points higher than the first half of Fate/Zero. Which is fine, it's his opinion, but don't tell me it's one born of higher standards. And don't think that his low average ratings mean that he has higher standards either (though since you also have a mean score below 5 you might want it to be true), he obviously just uses the point scale differently. In his comments he'll often use more positive adjectives to describe shows he gave a 3 than I'd feel comfortable using to describe shows I've given a 7 or 8, it's kind of bizarre actually. Okay, "different standards" then, not that it would've changed the guy's reaction in any way, and you know it. About my mean score, I score that way because I don't want series I like less to be rated the same as those I liked more. It's not about "higher standards" (although I'm very picky about anime, which is why I end up scoring what I don't like very low.) Pan151s said: -snip- Tl;dr : Rating Zero in all 10s right now is just stupid. But overall it's not overated. I don't think rating it a 10 is stupid, because it's pretty much a direct continuation of the first part. It could be the same entry, too. It's not like, say, a show spanning multiple seasons with a proper closure in each one. |
Solkiskey said: I don't think rating it a 10 is stupid, because it's pretty much a direct continuation of the first part. It could be the same entry, too. It's not like, say, a show spanning multiple seasons with a proper closure in each one. And, as you would have already known if you had bothered to read my actual comment (people, please learn that the tl;dr is there for those who want to skip through the posts - if you want to reply to a post, READ THE ACTUAL POST) , I said that it's perfectly ok to rate it since it's the 14th episode of the series. But I disagree with rating anything all 10s (notice: not just give it a 10 -I can somewhat accept that one as semi-reasonable- but write a review with all 10s in it) before the series finishes, simply because you can never rate something as perfect before it ends. It lacks closure, therefore it can't under any circumstances be perfect before the end. Much less at episode 14/26... |
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Solkiskey said: Topgunuk69 said: Solkiskey said: Okaishi said: Solkiskey said: Why not? How does having higher standards change anything in an argument? It's not like he was saying "this shit sucks" without properly justifying himself, he actually wrote why he thought the anime sucked. Jesus people. Are you implying he dislikes Fate/Zero because he has higher standards? I can't see anything but him criticizing it out of personal dislike rather than him being more sophisticated than the average Fate/Zero viewer who did like the show. I can dislike a ton of shows too and back it up with some silly arguments, but that doesn't mean I have "higher standards." If you look at his reviews and his comments on his anime list, then you'd be able to figure out he is more picky about shows. Or is that you can't accept negative opinions of Fate/Zero? He's not taking issue with someone having a less positive opinion of the show than he does. He's taking issue with you chalking his ratings up to "higher standards". It's not because of higher standards, it's because of different standards, different taste. I mean for one thing he scored Deen's Fate/Stay Night Anime 2 points higher than the first half of Fate/Zero. Which is fine, it's his opinion, but don't tell me it's one born of higher standards. And don't think that his low average ratings mean that he has higher standards either (though since you also have a mean score below 5 you might want it to be true), he obviously just uses the point scale differently. In his comments he'll often use more positive adjectives to describe shows he gave a 3 than I'd feel comfortable using to describe shows I've given a 7 or 8, it's kind of bizarre actually. Okay, "different standards" then, not that it would've changed the guy's reaction in any way, and you know it. I'm gonna have to disagree there. Look at Okaishi's post. The entire thing was about your use of the phrase "higher standards" which implies superiority. Far from merely changing his reaction, I doubt your post would've provoked a reaction from him at all had the offending phrase not been used. |
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| It's overrated. It's a damn great anime, but when people start saying that it's the anime of the forever, then the hype starts hurting it. |
| For me it's a bit overrated. It has amazing animation, great characters, good music and soundtrack. But for me the story hasn't developed much, there is little character development and the dialogues are forgettable. Maybe it's just my imagination, but people are too captivated by Fate Zero animation action scenes.... Still it's a great series :), not awesome though |
Homolust said: Yes it is overrated. Type-Moon fans rating 10 on only the first episode. Oh boy. 'Anyone' rating it on the first episode I say let the ratings waver(-kun (See what I did thar ;D)) until the show ends. Then when the mass rates it we can finally get an idea of whether it deserves the rating it'll be given. An ending matters hugely in a rating to me. So I'll be waiting to give any judgement on the series. So far though, I'm in love with it, and if I was forced to with a gun to my head, I'd give it a 9-10/10 thus far |
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Magicturbo said: Judging purely out of the first season it currently sits on 8 for me but it might boost itself to 9 if the rest of this season is even better than episode 14. And if the second BD boxset is as full of extra scenes and redrawn and nearly perfect shots, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from giving it the 10. Boxset 1 already did wonders for almost every nitpick I had with the adaptation of the first half (1-3 minutes of extra scenes per episode, almost every animation and art mistake fixed, new effects added or shots changed to give scenes a new feeling to them... the definition of what a BD should be, especially if you're gonna charge a lot for it).'Anyone' rating it on the first episode I say let the ratings waver(-kun (See what I did thar ;D)) until the show ends. Then when the mass rates it we can finally get an idea of whether it deserves the rating it'll be given. An ending matters hugely in a rating to me. So I'll be waiting to give any judgement on the series. So far though, I'm in love with it, and if I was forced to with a gun to my head, I'd give it a 9-10/10 thus far |
Leon-GunApr 14, 2012 12:57 PM
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Pan151 said: Solkiskey said: I don't think rating it a 10 is stupid, because it's pretty much a direct continuation of the first part. It could be the same entry, too. It's not like, say, a show spanning multiple seasons with a proper closure in each one. And, as you would have already known if you had bothered to read my actual comment (people, please learn that the tl;dr is there for those who want to skip through the posts - if you want to reply to a post, READ THE ACTUAL POST) , I said that it's perfectly ok to rate it since it's the 14th episode of the series. But I disagree with rating anything all 10s (notice: not just give it a 10 -I can somewhat accept that one as semi-reasonable- but write a review with all 10s in it) before the series finishes, simply because you can never rate something as perfect before it ends. It lacks closure, therefore it can't under any circumstances be perfect before the end. Much less at episode 14/26... Eh, I have read. I put a -snip- because wall of text is annoying for other people to browse through, and I quoted another guy. I still don't think it's stupid. If it's a direct continuation and Season 1 was a full 10 for them, and S2 is currently a full 10, I don't see what's wrong. Fate/Zero 1 and 2 could be a single entry, you know? @Topgunuk69 because wall of text : Then it's a misunderstanding, I hadn't meant higher standard. Mistake on my part, I guess. |
Aria_WrightApr 15, 2012 3:13 PM
Solkiskey said: I still don't think it's stupid. If it's a direct continuation and Season 1 was a full 10 for them, and S2 is currently a full 10, I don't see what's wrong. Fate/Zero 1 and 2 could be a single entry, you know? There we go again... Do I really need to repeat for the 3rd time that my problem is not whether it's considered the 1st or the 14th episode (already said multiple times I consider the 2 seasons as one, but you still haven't read that apparently) but that you cannot make a review with 10 in everything (characters, story etc) when you haven't seen the ending yet. Yes, it is perfectly acceptable to rate sound and artwork as 10 from the first few episodes, they will stay the same or even improve as episodes pass by... yes, you could even give a 10 to characters and enjoyment midway, since by that time you should heave formed a solid opinion on those 2... But how on earth can you give 10 to the story before you have seen it end? Even if it is perfect so far, how do you know that they won't pull something ridiculous in the next episodes that ruins everything? Yeah, I know there is a novel behind all this, and we won't see anything unexpected, but that doesn't mean the story will be as good as you expect it to be... what if they screw things up, skip parts of the novel that are crucial to the story and we end up with a bunch of plotholes? If you rate it a perfect 10, it should be worth a perfect 10. Not a "we expect it to be a perfect 10 and have faith it won't disappoint"... (One more clarification - all this time I'm arguing against some reviews, not the people who have just put it as a 10 in their list - in case you haven't noticed) |
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| A bit overrated especially when my friend is blinded to say that F/Z is a masterpiece but for someone who read the novel before the anime, I'm quite disappointed. And you know you'll be more disappointed towards the end in which the author (Urobochi Gen) really destroyed some of the adored characters from FSN. Though F/Z (season one) is better than FSN in terms of adaptation and graphics. |
| There is no such thing as overrated. ratings are subjectives. Saying that people rate things higher than they deserve is non sense because you are saying that your opinion is better than the one of the other people. |
| The only good things in Fate series are Saber and the art/animation. |
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Valaskjalf said: There is no such thing as overrated. ratings are subjectives. Saying that people rate things higher than they deserve is non sense because you are saying that your opinion is better than the one of the other people. Are you a logical positivist? That's why the word "overrated" is invented because people think that something is rated more than they THINK it should be. If someone says an anime is overated then the whole point of the argument is to be subjective. It may be nonsense for an LP but being subjective is still important. aiNkyy said: The only good things in Fate series are Saber and the art/animation. No, not Saber. In F/Z its Irisviel, Rider and Waiver and the things needed to clarified in F/SN. |
ratratrat098Apr 16, 2012 5:29 AM
| Nah, it's not overrated, IMO. The whole concept of the Fate series was always extremely interesting to me, with actual heroes being pictured and fighting each other over a holy grail and all. Even then, I think the first Fate Anime failed in a lot of aspects, all the more compared with the VN. Fate/Zero, however, pretty much does and delivers everything right. Story, characters, pacing, development...Even without considering the absurdly good animation and soundtrack. I tend to view Anime is a form of media and rate it based on both my personal enjoyiment and overall critical standpoint, and as such, my scores are fairly lower than that of a lot of people and I only ever rated two shows 10. That said, the only reason I rated the first season 9 is because it didn't end there. Assuming this will get even better until the end, this will be possibly my 3rd perfect score. |
| Well, it was obvious that Fate/Zero wouldn't be a happy story just going by what the Fate/stay VN tells us. Urobuchi was definitely a great fit for a tragic story, though. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
aiNkyy said: The only good things in Fate series are Saber and the art/animation. Yeah right.. The Fate franchise is full of great characters. |
Ragna92Apr 16, 2012 2:04 PM
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neurogal91 said: I'm more as to how he destrouyed it considering Gen basically did a "step by step to portray the backstory Nasu envisioned". ratratrat098 said: A bit overrated especially when my friend is blinded to say that F/Z is a masterpiece but for someone who read the novel before the anime, I'm quite disappointed. And you know you'll be more disappointed towards the end in which the author (Urobochi Gen) really destroyed some of the adored characters from FSN. Though F/Z (season one) is better than FSN in terms of adaptation and graphics. But none of the characters in Fate/Zero appeared in FSN except Kotomine Kirei, Gilgamesh and Saber. Sakura's past is already established in FSN and Saber's hatred for Kiritsugu is already known in FSN. The ending and some of the backstory for Fate/Zero is already established by Nasu in FSN, only Gen wrote them and added them more. So actually there's no issue for Gen destroys them, Nasu already done that. And that's just how Gen Urobuchi rolls. The day he writes happy stories will be the day unicorns fly over rainbows. Seriously. |
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| As if Death note isn't overrated..... |
Kazeshini said: As if Death note isn't overrated..... It's not overrated. |
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| This series pretty much delivers in almost all the departments for me except the 'enjoyment' part, i know its just me but i always try and try to enjoy the show, to find that tingly feeling inside but it just dosent happen for me when watching fate/zero, so i have to say IMO its overrated. Btw, i havnt watched FSN so i dont know if thats the reason i cant enjoy this show as much as everyone does. |
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Zee530 said: This series pretty much delivers in almost all the departments for me except the 'enjoyment' part, i know its just me but i always try and try to enjoy the show, to find that tingly feeling inside but it just dosent happen for me when watching fate/zero, so i have to say IMO its overrated. Btw, i havnt watched FSN so i dont know if thats the reason i cant enjoy this show as much as everyone does. Nah that's not the case. This show is definitely not for you. I would drop it if I were you. I'm surprised you haven't already. |
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Ragna92 said: It's not overrated. explains why it's the most popular here on MAL, and that's just MAL, yet it's pretty dissapointing. |
Ragna92 said: Great argument.Kazeshini said: As if Death note isn't overrated..... It's not overrated. |
| I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls. |
Karhu said: Ragna92 said: Great argument.Kazeshini said: As if Death note isn't overrated..... It's not overrated. Great argument or not, it really has no business in a thread about Fate/zero. Ragna probably shouldn't have replied, but I don't think he needs to go in depth to defend a series which really had no business being brought up in an argument about a completely different series. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: It's not overrated. explains why it's the most popular here on MAL, and that's just MAL, yet it's pretty dissapointing. Why don't you start a topic in the Death note discussion then? |
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| The first season was one of the more boring anime I've watched (I've seen around 50), but the animation is really nice at least. Question: Do you guys really connect with or care about the characters? I feel like they have no depth and I find that I could care less about what happens to any of them, outside of Saber. |
JoshApr 16, 2012 7:55 PM
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
JoshSalas said: The first season was one of the more boring anime I've watched (I've seen around 50), but the animation is really nice at least. Question: Do you guys really connect with or care about the characters? I feel like they have no depth and I find that I could care less about what happens to any of them, outside of Sabre. Yeah I do, you'll really feel the despair in this season if you understand just how much Servants like Lancer or Saber want their wishes granted or how Kiritsugu spent his whole life trying to "save everyone" by killing a few. |
Subby said: But you don't understand, he's seen 50 series, Obviously he knows much more about anime than you. He's an Anime sage, don't mess with them sages. /sarcasmJoshSalas said: The first season was one of the more boring anime I've watched (I've seen around 50), but the animation is really nice at least. Question: Do you guys really connect with or care about the characters? I feel like they have no depth and I find that I could care less about what happens to any of them, outside of Sabre. Yeah I do, you'll really feel the despair in this season if you understand just how much Servants like Lancer or Saber want their wishes granted or how Kiritsugu spent his whole life trying to "save everyone" by killing a few. Joke aside, Fate isn't for everyone, and quite frankly anyone who comes in expecting guns blazing action between Servants, or *shudder* Shounen fighting tournaments as someone else suggested Fate was (apparently he knows the series better than it's creator obviously), will be sorely dissapointed. May I suggest this kind of people to go see One Piece or Naruto? Perhaps even some Hunter x Hunter while we're at it. Not dissing on action fans, but people should just not pretend a series to be what it isn't and then get mad at it for not bending to their will. Just move on and consider it an anime "you" didn't like. Liking something is all subjective in the end. |
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Ragna92 said: Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: It's not overrated. explains why it's the most popular here on MAL, and that's just MAL, yet it's pretty dissapointing. Why don't you start a topic in the Death note discussion then? backing out of the pointless debate so soon? how boring. anyways there's enough of that on there. |
Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: It's not overrated. explains why it's the most popular here on MAL, and that's just MAL, yet it's pretty dissapointing. Why don't you start a topic in the Death note discussion then? backing out of the pointless debate so soon? how boring. anyways there's enough of that on there. If it was a pointless debate in the first place, then it makes sense for him to back out early. |
Knave said: Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: It's not overrated. explains why it's the most popular here on MAL, and that's just MAL, yet it's pretty dissapointing. Why don't you start a topic in the Death note discussion then? backing out of the pointless debate so soon? how boring. anyways there's enough of that on there. If it was a pointless debate in the first place, then it makes sense for him to back out early. I thought I made my sarcasm obvious enough.... |
Kazeshini said: Knave said: Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: Kazeshini said: Ragna92 said: It's not overrated. explains why it's the most popular here on MAL, and that's just MAL, yet it's pretty dissapointing. Why don't you start a topic in the Death note discussion then? backing out of the pointless debate so soon? how boring. anyways there's enough of that on there. If it was a pointless debate in the first place, then it makes sense for him to back out early. I thought I made my sarcasm obvious enough.... No, you haven't, considering it's impossible to detect sarcasm on the internet. |
| Overrated? Naruto? Yes. |
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| Good thing I don't care about rankings. |
JoshSalas said: The first season was one of the more boring anime I've watched (I've seen around 50), but the animation is really nice at least. Question: Do you guys really connect with or care about the characters? I feel like they have no depth and I find that I could care less about what happens to any of them, outside of Saber. Seeing as you have rated similar shows like Madoka Magika so low in your list, and judging by the shows that are high in your list, I'd say that this particular genre just isn't for you. Besides, you should ideally have watched f/sn before this to get a better understanding of who everyone is and connect with the characters. Also, 50 anime is only enough to give you a basic understanding of things, and on top of that most of the things you watched were movies/specials/OVAs - which don't really count all that much... |
Pan151Apr 17, 2012 2:55 PM
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Ragna92 said: aiNkyy said: The only good things in Fate series are Saber and the art/animation. Yeah right.. The Fate franchise is full of great characters. When you hear talk about of Fate automatically comes to your mind the image of Saber |
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KyonSmith said: Overrated? Naruto? Yes. >implying Naruto is the only overrated anime |
aiNkyy said: Ragna92 said: aiNkyy said: The only good things in Fate series are Saber and the art/animation. Yeah right.. The Fate franchise is full of great characters. When you hear talk about of Fate automatically comes to your mind the image of Saber So? Saber's the postergirl for the franchise, how does that negate the possibility of there being lots of great characters or positive things about the franchise other than Saber? |
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Topgunuk69 said: aiNkyy said: Ragna92 said: aiNkyy said: The only good things in Fate series are Saber and the art/animation. Yeah right.. The Fate franchise is full of great characters. When you hear talk about of Fate automatically comes to your mind the image of Saber So? Saber's the postergirl for the franchise, how does that negate the possibility of there being lots of great characters or positive things about the franchise other than Saber? In my opinion, Saber is a really great character, not like the others that don't have nothing special. That's all. |
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Pan151 said: Seeing as you have rated similar shows like Madoka Magika so low in your list, and judgingh by the shows that are high in your list, I'd say that this particular genre just isn't for you. Besides, you should ideally have watched f/sn before this to get a better understanding of who everyone is and connect with the characters. Also, 50 anime is only enough to give you a basic understanding of things, and on top of that most of the things you watched were movies/specials/OVAs - which don't really count all that much... I suppose. It's not that I don't appreciate a good action series, because I do, just didn't get either of them much. That's exactly what I meant to imply by saying I've seen 50 anime, just so people didn't think I meant this is the worst anime ever etc. Although, I don't understand why so many people on this site say 'movies don't count'? If you want to know the number of hours I've watched, look at that. It's there for a reason. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Saber? Depth? She's not a flat character, but she's hardly "deep." I really don't understand why Fate fans love her so much. Just talking about Fate/Zero since that's the topic, Archer and Rider are both much better characters Servant wise, and Kiritsugu and Kotomine have much more depth. |
Leon-Gun said: But you don't understand, he's seen 50 series, Obviously he knows much more about anime than you. He's an Anime sage, don't mess with them sages. /sarcasm Like I mentioned above, I included the number of anime I've seen to imply the exact opposite. I know I'm new to anime, so I didn't want 'this is one the most boring anime I've seen' to carry more weight than it deserves. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
TheRealBoyd said: Saber? Depth? She's not a flat character, but she's hardly "deep." I really don't understand why Fate fans love her so much. Just talking about Fate/Zero since that's the topic, Archer and Rider are both much better characters Servant wise, and Kiritsugu and Kotomine have much more depth. Well, if we talk about Fate/Zero.. Rider IMO is by far the best character, followed by Gilgamesh and Kariya. Most of the Saber fans (including me) like her because of her role in FSN, i think Saber's "Magic touch" disappeared in this season. |
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