Korotoko said: Ladies and gentleman, I present to you Japan. My opinion of Japan was already pretty low because of how weird they were as a culture (not in a good way), but this just made it dip even more. I knew many customs, fetishes, traditions, over there were strange, but seriously why I am not surprised this happened over there? Only in Japan, despite being a modern society, would such disgusting criminals such as these be given such a light sentence. In all honesty, I am not racist by any means, but slowly but surely I may become one. I know I shouldn't group Japan with these scumbags as well, but I'm pretty sure its culture cultivates people like this and other disturbing activities (train molesting, child molesting, incest). Who knows how many sick, deranged people run rampant in Japan? And with such light sentences, what the hell are they teaching? All due respect my fellow Metropolitan but, you sound really ignorant in that post. Japan isn't the only country to be guilty of acts such as this one. Your comment about it's culture "cultivating criminals" like the ones in this particular case was especially alarming. As one quick example, Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Places like Russia and Czech Republic have abundant and extremely active underground trafficking rings for instance. Young girls as low as 4 years old get brainwashed into doing harsh sexual activities. Are you going to say that the culture in Slavic/Eastern European countries cultivates criminals such as those too? What about the mass gang rape that happened at one school about 2 years ago here in America in our own country where a single woman was raped by, I think it was approximately 30 guys? And while all that was happening there were literally dozens upon dozens of innocent bystanders who did nothing but watch? And lol, here's the funny part, afterwards the entire town held a march and speech for this girl, talking passionately about how harsh and how terrible this crime was. Lol even though plenty of those mediocre people in that crowd were the same exact type of mediocre every day people that do nothing when presented with the actual scene in front of them. Most humans are quick to judge on things they most likely wouldn't even be able to act upon when it's actually presented to them. Think about what you lump an entire country together with before you make naive judgments. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"    Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
| I may be thinking irrationally due to my anger and shock, but atleast we as a country just don't slap people in the wrists for such atrocious crimes. 8 years? Are you kidding me? And enough with the "my fellow Metropolitan." Sure such despicable acts happen all over the world such as the ones you've mentioned, by this is by far one of the worst cases I've heard in a LONG time. And you may also be very well be right in saying I'm ignorant in this specific situation, but what other country has given such a light sentence to monsters? Please enlighten me there, I probably won't be too surprised if you find some instances. When you find some (if you do), I'm sure it'll just cause my opinion on humanity to will dwindle even further. |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 4:16 PM
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Korotoko said: I may be thinking irrationally due to my anger and shock, but atleast we as a country just don't slap people in the wrists for such atrocious crimes. 8 years? Are you kidding me? And enough with the "my fellow Metropolitan." Sure such despicable acts happen all over the world such as the ones you've mentioned, by this is by far one of the worst cases I've heard in a LONG time. And you may also be very well be right in saying I'm ignorant in this specific situation, but what other country has given such a light sentence to monsters? Our own country is guilty of giving extremely light sentences to "monsters" all the time. How can you speak on something with comments so specific such as, "this is by far one of the worst cases I've heard in a long time" and use that as a basis. Yeah, that YOU'VE heard in a "long time". I surely doubt you hold records for every crime in the United States, let alone other developed countries. My point is please, don't single out one country over your self-righteous induced anger over one of the most special cases in Japan that happened over 20 years ago. Especially not after that gang rape just 2 years ago right here in our own country where the guy didn't even get more than 10 years averaged across them. ~30 guys, one girl. And this example is a soft one. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Our own country is guilty of giving extremely light sentences to "monsters" all the time. Like who? And do you know that Japan continues to give light sentences to people of this calibur? How can you speak on something with comments so specific such as, "this is by far one of the worst cases I've heard in a long time" and use that as a basis. Yeah, that YOU'VE heard in a "long time". I surely doubt you hold records for every crime in the United States, let alone other developed countries. Fine, it's one of the worst PUBLICIZED cases I've heard in a long time. Happy? My point is please, don't single out one country over your self-righteous induced anger over one of the most special cases in Japan that happened over 20 years ago. I know it's wrong, but sometimes I find it hard not to. Like I said, their culture cultivates odd activities. What other modern country do you know of is train molesting not only normal, but common. And that's not even the strangest thing they do. Especially not after that gang rape just 2 years ago right here in our own country where the guy didn't even get more than 10 years averaged across them. ~30 guys, one girl. And this example is a soft one. Wow, that's already 20x better compared to what Japan did with the criminals that tortured this woman for 44 days. And we're talking some of the most inhuman torture, most of which were done by JUVENILES. If the gang bangers did what they did, you better believe it'd be a life sentence. |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 4:29 PM
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Korotoko said: Like who? And do you know that Japan continues to give light sentences to people of this calibre? That case I used as an example alone is one. Getting raped by 30 or so guys in front of literally dozens of spectators while some egg them on to keep going and others do nothing but stand and watch can be considered an experience as damaging as this one, especially since she had to live with this and has tried to kill herself over it (I forget though if she succeeded or not). Two different cases, both girls wanted death over the experience. Korotoko said: Fine, it's one of the worst PUBLICIZED cases I've heard in a long time. Happy? Publicized? There's more that's publicized that you haven't heard about, apparently one of them was the example I've been using despite how heavily reported it was all over the news 2 years ago. You only know about this particular case because someone posted about it on this forum, and this happened over 20 years ago. Korotoko said: My point is please, don't single out one country over your self-righteous induced anger over one of the most special cases in Japan that happened over 20 years ago. I know it's wrong, but sometimes I find it hard not to. Like I said, their culture cultivates odd activities. What other modern country do you know of is train molesting not only normal, but common. And that's not even the strangest thing they do. What about how "common" human trafficking is in parts of Russia? To the point that people just watch as little girls get dragged into vehicles to be taken away like it's a normal part of every day life? And I'm not even saying Russia is the worst. I'm making the point that you're singling out one country over one post about an event that happened over 20 years ago that you otherwise would've never heard about. Not to mention you clearly don't know enough about other typical common crimes in other countries such as Mexico and Russia. In Mexico there are cases where people are hacked to pieces and genitals mutilated. The worst part? Some of the groups involved are left alone despite being known and possessing enough evidence to put them behind bars. Korotoko said: Wow, that's already 20x better compared to what Japan did with the criminals that tortured this woman for 44 days. And we're talking some of the most inhuman torture, most of which were done by JUVENILES. If the gang bangers did what they did, you better believe it'd be a life sentence. How is it better? The experiences of both girls are properly and accurately simulated in your head? Is that what you're claiming? Both of them wanted to die after what they experienced. And the fact that juveniles received 8 years and adults received ~10 isn't supportive of your argument at all, rofl. You're supporting mine in that sense, because if those guys were juveniles too, they could've gotten less than 10. And please, don't call them gang bangers. Coming from NYC like me, you should know the word gang banger actually refers to those who are involved in gang activity. It has nothing to do with rape. Call them simply, rapists. |
BloodcaliburMar 17, 2012 4:39 PM
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
That case I used as an example alone is one. Getting raped by 30 or so guys in front of literally dozens of spectators while some egg them on to keep going and others do nothing but stand and watch can be considered an experience as damaging as this one, especially since she had to live with this and has tried to kill herself over it (I forget though if she succeeded or not). Two different cases, both girls wanted death over the experience. What you're describing is the Bystander Effect. Our generation has grown considerably more and more apathetic and in this instance, the more people that are around, the less likely a person will help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect And like I said, their sentence is already 20x better compared to what Japan did with the criminals that tortured this woman for 44 days. And we're talking some of the most inhuman torture, most of which were done by JUVENILES. If the rapists did what they did, you better believe it'd be a life sentence. Publicized? There's more that's publicized that you haven't heard about, apparently one of them was the example I've been using despite how heavily reported it was all over the news 2 years ago. You only know about this particular case because someone posted about it on this forum, and this happened over 20 years ago. Just because I've heard of this now doesn't make it any less disturbing. Obviously people are bringing this to light several years later to bring awareness of the atrocity. What about how "common" human trafficking is in parts of Russia? To the point that people just watch as little girls get dragged into vehicles to be taken away like it's a normal part of every day life? Human trafficking is something that is more or less common, but hidden in darkness everywhere in the world. It is not something unique to only Russia. Japan on the other hand has many perversions and crimes that aren't found anywhere else in the world, as far as modern societies go. They are truly innovators of extremely bizarre and disturbing activities. And I'm not even saying Russia is the worst. I'm making the point that you're singling out one country over one post about an event that happened over 20 years ago that you otherwise would've never heard about. Not to mention you clearly don't know enough about other typical common crimes in other countries such as Mexico and Russia. In Mexico there are cases where people are hacked to pieces and genitals mutilated. The worst part? Some of the groups involved are left alone despite being known and possessing enough evidence to put them behind bars. Links? Evidence? We're talking about publicized cases now right? How is it better? The experiences of both girls are properly and accurately simulated in your head? Is that what you're claiming? Both of them wanted to die after what they experienced. And the fact that juveniles received 8 years and adults received ~10 isn't supportive of your argument at all, rofl. You're supporting mine in that sense, because if those guys were juveniles too, they could've gotten less than 10. In terms of how they came out of it, the pictures tell the story themselves. Now tell me? Who do you think experienced worst? |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 4:50 PM
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Korotoko said: What you're describing is the Bystander Effect. Our generation has grown considerably more and more apathetic and in this instance, the more people that are around, the less likely a person will help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect I don't see how this in any defends your statement that Japan is near the top of the list of modern countries in terms of the level of relationship between criminal and societal perversion, which is what you tried to point out in your original rant. So what you're basically saying with that last quote is that you're using a psychological excuse for people to watch victims get raped and do nothing about it and that's okay. But if it happened in Japan it's the most horrible thing ever to you right? Korotoko said: And like I said, their sentence is already 20x better compared to what Japan did with the criminals that tortured this woman for 44 days. You're right, this stuff only happens in Japan. My bad, why did I ever argue you, lol.... Korotoko said: Just because I've heard of this now doesn't make it any less disturbing. Obviously people are bringing this to light several years later to bring awareness of the atrocity. Your point here is totally irrelevant to my counter-argument of your response here: Kortoko said: Fine, it's one of the worst PUBLICIZED cases I've heard in a long time. Happy? Human trafficking is something that is more or less common, but hidden in darkness everywhere in the world. It is not something unique to only Russia. Japan on the other hand has many perversions and crimes that aren't found anywhere else in the world, as far as modern societies go. It's not unique to Russia no, but it's extremely active over there compared to most. I was using this in comparison to your referencing of train molestation being rampant in Japan. Which btw, is yet another case you seem to have no psychological understanding of either, or else you wouldn't even be using that for any reason whatsoever in this argument. Korotoko said: /Facepalm moment here.inks? Evidence? We're talking about publicized cases now right? Here's a link to give you an idea of how rankings are viewed in terms of dangerous places around the world. http://urbantitan.com/10-most-dangerous-cities-on-the-world-in-2010/ Here's the wikipedia article strictly for Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Russia More information on trafficking in Russia. http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/russia.htm Something extra for you concerning how different governments handle something such as female introcision: http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/fgm-prov-m.htm Mutilation in Mexico: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/09/mexico-war-news-happening-drug http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/22/us-mexico-drugs-idUSTRE67L1Y620100822 There's plenty more but I assume you know how to google and do a little research. Korotoko said: In terms of how they came out of it, the pictures tell the story themselves. Now tell me? Who do you think experienced worst? Pictures? You're going to judge the damage those girls experienced from a third person perspective through pictures? Genius rebuttal lol. It would be even funnier if you were going by the MANGA's pictures, LOL. |
BloodcaliburMar 17, 2012 5:17 PM
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Bloodcalibur said: I don't see how this in any defends your statement that Japan is near the top of the list of modern countries in terms of the level of relationship between criminal and societal perversion, which is what you tried to point out in your original rant. So what you're basically saying with that last quote is that you're using a psychological excuse for people to watch victims get raped and do nothing about it and that's okay. But if it happened in Japan it's the most horrible thing ever to you right? Pretty sure that's NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying this is a problem with our generation as a whole. This is something we need to collectively fix in the world. I'd compare to something like Global Warming. A worldwide problem: Apathy. It's not unique to Russia no, but it's extremely active over there compared to most. I was using this in comparison to your referencing of train molestation being rampant in Japan. Which btw, is yet another case you seem to have no psychological understanding of either, or else you wouldn't even be using that for any reason whatsoever in this argument. You have no basis for that argument. You're singling out Russia for human trafficking and you're telling me not to single out Japan? Let's not be hypocrites here. Also, doesn't that just mean they're worst at hiding these events? Not only that, but if you consider the size of their population you can accurately understand why trafficking is so prominent. /Facepalm moment here. Here's a link to give you an idea of how rankings are viewed in terms of dangerous places around the world. http://urbantitan.com/10-most-dangerous-cities-on-the-world-in-2010/ Here's the wikipedia article strictly for Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Russia More information on trafficking in Russia. http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/russia.htm Something extra for you concerning how different governments handle something such as female introcision: http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/fgm-prov-m.htm Mutilation in Mexico: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/09/mexico-war-news-happening-drug http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/22/us-mexico-drugs-idUSTRE67L1Y620100822 There's plenty more but I assume you know how to google and do a little research. This is indeed good stuff, but rather than statistics can you give me some publicized cases? Especially those mexican drug war links you provided, they have nothing in common with what we're talking about. Although they are indeed grotesque, those are drug wars/gang wars. If they were caught they'd probably get life too. And before this spirals out of control, I'll gladly say I am indeed WRONG in grouping an entire country together. I pretty much make that clear in my first post (but you have bad reading comp skills), I just say it's hard not to sometimes. Although I feel a small few are tarnishing them as a whole, I also believe their culture is cultivating that. I myself have the most diverse group of friends. My two best friends are hispanic and some of the coolest people I've met were black. I'm just saying that I can see how some people can "turn" racist. It really is easy to become one. I knew this one white guy who was like openly racist over the net against black people and I would always argue with him. My main argument would always be "not all black people act this way." Upon learning more about him and the community he lived in, it was easy to understand why. He lived in a crime infested community that was predominantly black and he was supposedly one of only two white people (and would repeatedly get harrassed) in his neighborhood. Sympathsizing with his situation I thought to myself "damn, I'd probably be racist too in his position." Pictures? You're going to judge the damage those girls experienced from a third person perspective through pictures? Genius rebuttal lol. It would be even funnier if you were going by the MANGA's pictures, LOL. Are you kidding me right now or just stupid? We have VIVID descriptions of the event AND pictures to prove it. Of course I'm going to use them to compare the two. And don't troll, MANGA pictures? Are you serious? Grow up. How the hell can you joke in this situation? |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 5:54 PM
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Korotoko said: Pretty sure that's NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying this is a problem with our generation as a whole. This is something we need to collectively fix in the world. I'd compare to something like Global Warming. A worldwide problem: Apathy. You fail to see my point (as usual). So when mutilation and sexual torture happens in other places in the world you'll argue that it happens all over the world. But if it happens in Japan, it only happens in Japan right? Korotoko said: You have no basis for that argument. You're singling out Russia for human trafficking and you're telling me not to single out Japan? Let's not be hypocrites here. Also, doesn't that just mean they're worst at hiding these events? Not only that, but if you consider the size of their population accurately understand why trafficking is so prominent. You have a serious comprehension and critical thinking problem if you think I've been singling out Russia this whole time concerning human trafficking. I've repeatedly stated I've been using Russia as an example since it's one of the most active in terms of human trafficking. Russia's entire population count has nothing to do with it considering the trafficking gets done in only specific population groups =d. So your point is null. Korotoko said: This is indeed good stuff, but rather than statistics can you give me some publicized cases? Especially those mexican drug war links you provided, they have nothing in common with what we're talking about. Although they are indeed grotesque, those are drug wars/gang wars. Those are publicized cases. And I did say you're smart enough to google on your own. Gang wars or not, they're examples of grotesque crimes in other places of the world. Now you're just trying to wiggle your way (as usual). Korotoko said: And before this spirals out of control, I'll gladly say I am indeed WRONG in grouping an entire country together. I pretty much make that clear in my first post, I just say it's hard not to sometimes. Let me just also point out that you also have a habit of editing your posts way after just to better support your argument in a point that someone is pushing you into a corner in. Korotoko said: Although I feel a small few are tarnishing them as a whole, I also believe their culture is cultivating that. I myself have the most diverse group of friends. My two best friends are hispanic and some of the coolest people I've met were black. I'm just saying that I can see how some people can "turn" racist. It really is easy to become one. I knew this one white guy who was like openly racist over the net against black people and I would always argue with him. My main argument would always be "not all black people act this way." Upon learning more about him and the community he lived in, it was easy to understand why. He lived in a crime infested community that was predominantly black and he was supposedly one of only two white people (and would repeatedly get harrassed) in his neighborhood. Sympathsizing with his situation I thought to myself "damn, I'd probably be racist too in his position." No matter how you look at it, that's nothing but rationalizing ignorance. An intelligent, open, and wise mind will always succeed at thinking outside of the societal influence he/she is trapped in and find their own opinion. What you mean to say is, less intelligent humans are more easily prone to falling into racism. Korotoko said: Are you kidding me right now or just stupid? We have VIVID descriptions of the event AND pictures to prove it. Of course I'm going to use them to compare the two events. This would be nice and all if the name Junko Furuta was her actual name for one. And two, if those pictures weren't from the movies based off it (LOL did you think the ones you see on google were actually her?). Three, if YOU actually saw the girl who got raped by those ~30 guys I made an example out of. And even then. Even then. Lol.. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
You fail to see my point (as usual). So when mutilation and sexual torture happens in other places in the world you'll argue that it happens all over the world. But if it happens in Japan, it only happens in Japan right? Wrong. You seem to think you know me more than I do. Why exactly would you make such an assumption? You have a serious comprehension and critical thinking problem if you think I've been singling out Russia this whole time concerning human trafficking. I've repeatedly stated I've been using Russia as an example since it's one of the most active in terms of human trafficking. Russia's entire population count has nothing to do with it considering the trafficking gets done in only specific population groups =d. So your point is null. You seem to be the one confused. You're using them as an example and contradicting yourself by singling them out as a major perpetrator of human trafficking. Those are publicized cases. And I did say you're smart enough to google on your own. Gang wars or not, they're examples of grotesque crimes in other places of the world. Now you're just trying to wiggle your way (as usual). You're the one wiggling your way out. I wanted cases, not a whole history lesson or drug war incidents that don't have sentencing information. Let me just also point out that you also have a habit of editing your posts way after just to better support your argument in a point that someone is pushing you into a corner in. You do too, just improvise. More thoughts come into mind and I include them. Problem? No matter how you look at it, that's nothing but rationalizing ignorance. An intelligent, open, and wise mind will always succeed at thinking outside of the societal influence he/she is trapped in and find their own opinion. What you mean to say is, less intelligent humans are more easily prone to falling into racism. We do this all the time. What's your point? I already recognized that in my first post when I even said it. Should I sum up my first post for you?My opinion of Japan was already pretty low because of how weird they were as a culture (not in a good way), but this just made it dip even more. I knew many customs, fetishes, traditions, over there were strange, but seriously why I am not surprised this happened over there? Only in Japan, despite being a modern society, would such disgusting criminals such as these be given such a light sentence. In all honesty, I am not racist by any means, but slowly but surely I may become one. I know I shouldn't group Japan with these scumbags as well, but I'm pretty sure its culture cultivates people like this and other disturbing activities (train molesting, child molesting, incest). Who knows how many sick, deranged people run rampant in Japan? And with such light sentences, what the hell are they teaching? Yes it seems like I'm attacking Japan as a whole at first, but then I expose my true intentions. I'm actually criticizing their culture that breeds this and accepts this (to a degree). As a country, I recognize them as good people (the majority), but as a culture, I feel they've been heading in the wrong direction and have been continuing down that path. This would be nice and all if the name Junko Furuta was her actual name for one. And two, if those pictures weren't from the movies based off it (LOL did you think the ones you see on google were actually her?). Three, if YOU actually saw the girl who got raped by those ~30 guys I made an example out of. And even then. Even then. Lol.. - I've read the descriptions for both events. - I've also seen both parties AFTER them. Not some movie, or manga, actual pictures. I think it's you who should go do some research, because obviously you're ignorant in both cases. You really do like arguing huh? |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 6:38 PM
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| How did you see both parties after? Aka I'm looking for your source |
| |
| For the one he talked about, pictures were spiraling on the net when it occured. I don't know if I can find them now. For the Junko Furuta incident (if those images on google are fake), as far as descriptions go, I'd say she was tormented A LOT worst. I mean shit, 44 days of rape, mutilation, and torture by over 100 men vs 30. Tell me what sounds worst? |
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| This is exactly why I'm on the road to becoming a policeman. No one is touching my Nakama. I could care less about rules and regulations in a situation like this, I'll shoot to kill. |
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-Shuda- said: Kudos to you.This is exactly why I'm on the road to becoming a policeman. No one is touching my Nakama. I could care less about rules and regulations in a situation like this, I'll shoot to kill. |
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| People like those (who committed the torture) are the kind of people I'd LOVE to find where they live and kill them. I swear to god, what would possess someone to do that to another human being... |
| Lemme smang it girl. |
Korotoko said: Wrong. You seem to think you know me more than I do. Why exactly would you make such an assumption? You still failed to see my point. Point was me extracting from you a better argument to support what you're implying, which you haven't done. I was aiding you. But you don't see that. It's called questioning someone's conclusions in order to be given logical reasoning as to how that purpose came to those conclusions. But you react to everything like it's an attack towards you =d. Korotoko said: You seem to be the one confused. You're using them as an example and contradicting yourself by singling them out as a major perpetrator of human trafficking. I don't see how this response provides evidence at all about how using something as an example automatically means I'm singling them out. Especially not after I've reiterated several times that human trafficking is active all around the world. This also means that you missed the point (again). The point was that there are terrible activities being done throughout the world (Russia being one example I gave), not just Japan. You referenced Japan's criminal activity to their culture. Criminal activity that happens to take place all over the world. Tsk tsk. Korotoko said: Moot point, irrelevant to the integrity of the desired goals of our debate. Just another attempt to wiggle your way out by having something to say, even though what you might be saying has nothing to do with directly arguing my points (lol).You're the one wiggling your way out. I wanted cases, not a whole history lesson or drug war incidents that don't have sentencing information. Korotoko said: You do too, just improvise. More thoughts come into mind and I include them. Problem? I never edited my posts to add an argument to a post that happened after that post was made. Editing posts to correct spelling, grammar, or minor changes are one thing, but you have clearly edited your posts (a whole hour after you posted) for the sole purpose of diminishing the damage to your original point when you sense yourself beginning to lose in a debate =d. You edit posts that have several other posts already inputted after it instead of posting a new one. If that's not obvious attempt at manipulating the integrity of your arguments, I dunno what is lols. On a personal note, that's a pretty embarrassing thing to do. Korotoko said: Yes it seems like I'm attacking Japan as a whole at first, but then I expose my true intentions. I'm actually criticizing their culture that breeds this and accepts this (to a degree). ^ Read what you just said and tell me you don't find anything wrong with it. Korotoko said: - I've read the descriptions for both events. - I've also seen both parties AFTER them. Not some movie, or manga, actual pictures. Oh? You found the article concerning that girl who got raped by ~30 guys near her school with dozens of spectators doing nothing? Linking to us would be helpful. And oh? You found Furuta's real pictures after her 44 days of suffering? Link me in PM since it's grotesque. Korotoko said: You really do like arguing huh? Ad hominem in the form of a question. I hope you're not getting upset because it sounds like you are. This is just a debate after all. Stay calm my fellow Metropolitan. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Korotoko said: For the one he talked about, pictures were spiraling on the net when it occured. I don't know if I can find them now. For the Junko Furuta incident (if those images on google are fake), as far as descriptions go, I'd say she was tormented A LOT worst. I mean shit, 44 days of rape, mutilation, and torture by over 100 men vs 30. Tell me what sounds worst? They are from the film, so yes they are fake. I've never heard the claim that "100" men raped her though, but a lot of the descriptions are taken from the book, movie, or graphic novel. As far as what is worse, 100 or 30...tbh I doubt there would be much difference between the two in terms of being raped, of course this is my opinion as I've never been raped, I just can't see a large difference between 30 and 100 in terms of emotional/physical damage. However, I do not doubt she went through some awful torture, but the day by day list, imo is exaggerated greatly. The only valid source to know is the testimony given by the boys at the court, which I have never seen produced by anyone, and most likely no longer exists. While I'll certainly agree that it is a horrendous crime and they got off light, I don't see how this reflects poorly on Japanese culture. You get extreme behavior in every society and people get light sentences in every country. In truth I do think the deserved much harsher penalties, but I think trying to claim they are breeding criminals is a bit over the top. |
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You still failed to see my point. Point was me extracting from you a better argument to support what you're implying, which you haven't done. I was aiding you. But you don't see that. It's called questioning someone's conclusions in order to be given logical reasoning as to how that purpose came to those conclusions. But you react to everything like it's an attack towards you =d. You seriously need to learn how to talk. Why can't you be a little more straightforward rather than attempt to make yourself sound smart by making things sound more complex than they should be?I don't see how this response provides evidence at all about how using something as an example automatically means I'm singling them out. Especially not after I've reiterated several times that human trafficking is active all around the world. This also means that you missed the point (again). The point was that there are terrible activities being done throughout the world (Russia being one example I gave), not just Japan. You referenced Japan's criminal activity to their culture. Criminal activity that happens to take place all over the world. Tsk tsk. Correction, that's what I'VE reiterated. I also said that it's common to the world. We're talking about things unique to a country. Then I said "Japan are truly innovators of extremely bizarre and disturbing activities." You made an argument saying it's more prevalent in that area (Russia), which I argued was because of their ridiculously large population. Moot point, irrelevant to the integrity of the desired goals of our debate. Just another attempt to wiggle your way out by having something to say, even though what you might be saying has nothing to do with directly arguing my points (lol). Lol, you're an idiot aren't you? When someone asks for something specific, yet you give them something entirely different, would you be mad? Good, cause that's essentially what you just did. I never edited my posts to add an argument to a post that happened after that post was made. Editing posts to correct spelling, grammar, or minor changes are one thing, but you have clearly edited your posts (a whole hour after you posted) for the sole purpose of diminishing the damage to your original point when you sense yourself beginning to lose in a debate =d. You edit posts that have several other posts already inputted after it instead of posting a new one. If that's not obvious attempt at manipulating the integrity of your arguments, I dunno what is lols. On a personal note, that's a pretty embarrassing thing to do. Again, new thoughts come to mind and I further refine my post. Problem? You're over thinking my reasons for editing. When someone writes a book or an essay, they tweak, tweak, and tweak, until they're satisfied. That's essentially what I'm doing. ^ Read what you just said and tell me you don't find anything wrong with it. Nada. Seems good. Conveyed what I wanted to perfectly. Do I need to teach you reading comprehension skills too? Oh? You found the article concerning that girl who got raped by ~30 guys near her school with dozens of spectators doing nothing? Linking to us would be helpful. This is totally gone. But you can still find descriptions. And oh? You found Furuta's real pictures after her 44 days of suffering? Link me in PM since it's grotesque. Even if those pictures on google are fake, I'm pretty sure it'd be a lot more gruesome than those movie images. Why? Well, seeing as how they could only give us vivid descriptions rather than photos, I'm sure it was THAT bad. And this is Japan we're talking about, if it wasn't that bad I'm sure images would have been leaked. Ad hominem in the form of a question. I hope you're not getting upset because it sounds like you are. This is just a debate after all. Stay calm my fellow Metropolitan. Is this a polite way of saying "u mad"? Let's keep the trolling down a notch or two. They are from the film, so yes they are fake. I've never heard the claim that "100" men raped her though, but a lot of the descriptions are taken from the book, movie, or graphic novel. As far as what is worse, 100 or 30...tbh I doubt there would be much difference between the two in terms of being raped, of course this is my opinion as I've never been raped, I just can't see a large difference between 30 and 100 in terms of emotional/physical damage. However, I do not doubt she went through some awful torture, but the day by day list, imo is exaggerated greatly. The only valid source to know is the testimony given by the boys at the court, which I have never seen produced by anyone, and most likely no longer exists. While I'll certainly agree that it is a horrendous crime and they got off light, I don't see how this reflects poorly on Japanese culture. You get extreme behavior in every society and people get light sentences in every country. In truth I do think the deserved much harsher penalties, but I think trying to claim they are breeding criminals is a bit over the top. I'm saying they're cultivating behavior that can easily LEAD to criminal behavior. And btw, can you validate the authenticity of the link I gave you? I'd like to know. No other culture glorifies submissive behavior from women more than Japan. Look at how popular maid cafes are over there. They're nurturing those desires. There are a multitude of bad behaviors that they "glorify." I'll elaborate on this further if I have to. |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 7:48 PM
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Korotoko said: You seriously need to learn how to talk. Why can't you be a little more straightforward rather attempt to make yourself sound smart by making things sound more complex than they should be? Are you serious? I'm sure I'm not the only one facepalming at this right now rofl. Tell me, are you serious? You do realize that wording things in such a manner has actually been designed for the purpose of being straightforward right? It's to explain a point while using the fewest amount of sentences as possible. I haven't even been writing eloquently at all, but if it's too "smart" for you then that sounds more like a personal problem to me. This makes me disappointed though, since you're a fellow Metropolitan. Korotoko said: Correction, that's what I'VE reiterated. I also said that it's common to the world. We're talking about things unique to a country. Then I said "Japan are truly innovators of extremely bizarre and disturbing activities." You made an argument saying it's more prevalent in that area, which argued it was because of their ridiculously large population. Word? Pretty sure I said: Bloodcalibur said: As one quick example, Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Places like Russia and Czech Republic have abundant and extremely active underground trafficking rings for instance. Young girls as low as 4 years old get brainwashed into doing harsh sexual activities. Are you going to say that the culture in Slavic/Eastern European countries cultivates criminals such as those too? And that was just the first post. I made an argument in the form of an obvious rhetorical question, which I will now re-phrase for you in the form of direct question so that you can [hopefully] comprehend my point now: Are you going to assume that Slavic countries cultures are to blame for crimes that happen in Slavic countries the same way you assume Japan's culture is to blame for crimes that happen in Japan, even though these are all crimes that can happen anywhere in the world? Mods, find it in your hearts to forgive me for the following harsh ad hominem but: Simply put, Korotoko you are an extremely slow person. Let me guess, when you said you went to school in Brooklyn, it wasn't Brooklyn Tech was it? Korotoko said: Lol, you're an idiot aren't you? When someone asks for something specific, yet you give them something entirely different, would you be mad? Good, cause that's essentially what you just did. So you're mad? I know that sounds trollish but, seriously I'm asking foreal: You're mad again? Well if you are, please refrain from spamming me with walls of text in my message box again like you did days ago. Korotoko said: I'm saying they're breeding behavior that can easily LEAD to criminal behavior. And btw, can you validate the authenticity of the link I gave you? I'd like to know. No other culture glorifies submissive behavior from women more than Japan. Look at how popular maid cafes are over there. They're nurturing those desires. There are a multitude of bad behaviors that they "glorify." I know this wasn't a response towards me but: When you form your arguments in a manner such as the above, it's really hard to take you seriously on an intellectual level. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Are you serious? ...I'm sure I'm not the only one facepalming at this right now rofl. This is your sentence: " It's called questioning someone's conclusions in order to be given logical reasoning as to how that purpose came to those conclusions." ^ Can this be simplified? Yes. Is it a roundabout way of saying something so simple? Yes. Tell me, are you serious? You do realize that wording things in such a manner has actually been designed for the purpose of being straightforward right? It's to explain a point while using the fewest amount of sentences as possible. I haven't even been writing eloquently at all, but if it's too "smart" for you then that sounds more like a personal problem to me. This makes me disappointed though, since you're a fellow Metropolitan. Refer to my above statement. And yes, you need to retake English. Word? Pretty sure I said: And that was just the first post. I made an argument in the form of an obvious rhetorical question, which I will now re-phrase for you in as a direct question so that you can [hopefully] comprehend my point now: Are you going to assume that Slavic countries cultures are to blame for crimes that happen in Slavic countries the same way you assume Japan's culture is to blame for crimes that happen in Japan, even though these are all crimes that can happen anywhere in the world? To a certain extent, yup. It is one of MANY factors. Mods, find it in your hearts to forgive me for the following harsh ad hominem but: Simply put, Korotoko you are an extremely slow person. Let me guess, when you said you went to school in Brooklyn, it wasn't Brooklyn Tech was it? Not important. So you're mad? I know that sounds trollish but, seriously I'm asking foreal: You're mad again? Well if you are, please refrain from spamming me with walls of text in my message box again like you did days ago. What you're doing doesn't sound trollish, it is. And a few sentences is not WALLS of TEXT, let's get that straight. Let's keep personal arguments out of the topic alright? Unless you want to derail it again. And I'm not mad, just annoyed at your desire for argument. It's like food to you. I know this wasn't a response towards me but: When you form your arguments in manners such as the above, it's really hard to take you seriously on an intellectual level. You know it sounds funny, despite how playful and insignificant it might be, it really speaks volumes about what is normal in their society. In Japan, the quintessential wife is one who is totally submissive to their husband. A wife that does everything and anything his husband wants. Lolicons is another thing that is glorified in Japan. When you look at it lightly... so what, they just like children. But what other culture has this strange obsession/fetish with little girls? To the point where it's become normal. Doesn't this cultivate actions such as child molesting and pedophilia? Our country for example cultivates sex, violence, wealth, and drugs. Are we in the wrong too? Most definitely. |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 8:17 PM
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Korotoko said: I'm saying they're cultivating behavior that can easily LEAD to criminal behavior. And btw, can you validate the authenticity of the link I gave you? I'd like to know. No other culture glorifies submissive behavior from women more than Japan. Look at how popular maid cafes are over there. They're nurturing those desires. There are a multitude of bad behaviors that they "glorify." I'll elaborate on this further if I have to. The link you gave me does indeed show pictures from the movie. I can actually send you some clips from the movie (albeit bad quality) if you want to verify that as well. Like I said the quality isn't great, but you'll be able to see the actress clearly enough to see. I do agree somethings cultivate behavior that is not acceptable to society. However, not to nitpick, but as far as no other country glorifying submissive women, I have to wonder where the middle east falls into that, although they do not glorify such things as much as they demand it. In terms of lolicon, I do not see that this cultivates anything. In fact sexual crimes have steadily decreased in Japan, despite a rise in what I consider a strange fetish (lolicon). So I can't agree that it cultivates pedophiles or child molesting. This to me is the same logic people use to say video games increase violence in kids. . You see, if we use the argument that lolicon breeds pedophiles, then it is just as easy to say that Berserk could breed killers or any other violent anime. Instead, I propose that these are merely outlets, and can decrease unacceptable behavior rather then increase it, although there are certainly exceptions, as with all things. But aside from that, many in Japan do not like lolicon either, and there are many groups (much like parents group here for ratings) that speak out against such things. It's not something the older generations typically look on favorably. By no means am I claiming Japan's culture or society is without reproach, because there are some issue's certainly, I'm just merely saying it is not the worst out there, nor as bad as I took your initial post to be saying. It certainly has it's positives as well. As far as the maid cafe's....I do not honestly see this as any different than hooters. http://www.imageandnarrative.be/index.php/imagenarrative/article/viewFile/127/98 An article by a prof. at Tokyo on his studies of lolicon and it's impact on Japan, as my reference for sexual crimes declining. |
rekindledflameMar 17, 2012 9:02 PM
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Korotoko said: Ladies and gentleman, I present to you Japan. My opinion of Japan was already pretty low because of how weird they were as a culture (not in a good way), but this just made it dip even more. I knew many customs, fetishes, traditions, over there were strange, but seriously why I am not surprised this happened over there? Only in Japan, despite being a modern society, would such disgusting criminals such as these be given such a light sentence. In all honesty, I am not racist by any means, but slowly but surely I may become one. I know I shouldn't group Japan with these scumbags as well, but I'm pretty sure its culture cultivates people like this and other disturbing activities (train molesting, child molesting, incest). Who knows how many sick, deranged people run rampant in Japan? And with such light sentences, what the hell are they teaching? I am seriously baffled at how this could even happen. What makes it worst is apparently "More than 100 men are believed to have raped her." I've just heard about this case now and seriously, I'm pissed. I may be even thinking irrationally now due to my anger, but how can you blame me? I hate to bi-pass a solid wall of arguments, but looking back on your original post, it's not even that you sound ignorant. It's that you are ignorant. I don't even feel like explaining to you why, because Blood has tried to explain it to you for the past page, so I won't.. just wanted to point it out to you. |
rekindledflame said: Korotoko said: I'm saying they're cultivating behavior that can easily LEAD to criminal behavior. And btw, can you validate the authenticity of the link I gave you? I'd like to know. No other culture glorifies submissive behavior from women more than Japan. Look at how popular maid cafes are over there. They're nurturing those desires. There are a multitude of bad behaviors that they "glorify." I'll elaborate on this further if I have to. The link you gave me does indeed show pictures from the movie. I can actually send you some clips from the movie (albeit bad quality) if you want to verify that as well. Like I said the quality isn't great, but you'll be able to see the actress clearly enough to see. I do agree somethings cultivate behavior that is not acceptable to society. However, not to nitpick, but as far as no other country glorifying submissive women, I have to wonder where the middle east falls into that, although they do not glorify such things as much as they demand it. In terms of lolicon, I do not see that this cultivates anything. In fact sexual crimes have steadily decreased in Japan, despite a rise in what I consider a strange fetish (lolicon). So I can't agree that it cultivates pedophiles or child molesting. This to me is the same logic people use to say video games increase violence in kids. . You see, if we use the argument that lolicon breeds pedophiles, then it is just as easy to say that Berserk could breed killers or any other violent anime. Instead, I propose that these are merely outlets, and can decrease unacceptable behavior rather then increase it, although there are certainly exceptions, as with all things. Although this would probably have to be handled in a case by case basis, you're right for the most part. Some kids ARE influenced by video games, but most aren't. There are variety of things that influence a person's decisions and overall personality. People are shaped by everything around them. We're influenced by our family, our environment, our friends, the media, our education, etc. By no means am I claiming Japan's culture or society is without reproach, because there are some issue's certainly, I'm just merely saying it is not the worst out there, nor as bad as I took your initial post to be saying. It certainly has it's positives as well. http://www.imageandnarrative.be/index.php/imagenarrative/article/viewFile/127/98 An article by a prof. at Tokyo on his studies of lolicon and it's impact on Japan, as my reference for sexual crimes declining. Lol is this accurate or new? If so, that's pretty interesting. But you're right for the most part, I may have been a bit over the top in my thinking. Bloodcalibur, you can learn a lot from this guy. He engages in a debate without the need to call people names, make stupid/snark comments, troll, or joke around with serious subjects. Isn't that how it should be? Can't people debate civilly anymore? I hate to bi-pass a solid wall of arguments, but looking back on your original post, it's not even that you sound ignorant. It's that you are ignorant. I don't even feel like explaining to you why, because Blood has tried to explain it to you for the past page, so I won't.. just wanted to point it out to you. Not really, you should read the walls of arguments for both sides better before you make such a claim. |
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Korotoko said: Lol is this accurate or new? If so, that's pretty interesting. . It's from 2011, but yes from the sources he used, it is all verifiable. Not to say you won't find evidence suggesting he is wrong. It's similar to how it works here, you can find numerous papers/studies suggesting that violence in video games does not make people violent, but then you can find the opposite as well. The truth usually lies somewhere in between I find. |
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| @Korotoko: No I read them. I just felt that you needed to go back to the original source of the argument to understand that you were way out of line. |
Legendre said: @Korotoko: No I read them. I just felt that you needed to go back to the original source of the argument to understand that you were way out of line. Not really, it sounds that way but you're most likely misinterpreting me. I might have to sum up my intentions to you as well. Give me a sec. Here: My opinion of Japan was already pretty low because of how weird they were as a culture (not in a good way), but this just made it dip even more. I knew many customs, fetishes, traditions, over there were strange, but seriously why I am not surprised this happened over there? Only in Japan, despite being a modern society, would such disgusting criminals such as these be given such a light sentence. In all honesty, I am not racist by any means, but slowly but surely I may become one. I know I shouldn't group Japan with these scumbags as well, but I'm pretty sure its culture cultivates people like this and other disturbing activities (train molesting, child molesting, incest). Who knows how many sick, deranged people run rampant in Japan? And with such light sentences, what the hell are they teaching? Yes it seems like I'm attacking Japan as a whole at first, but then I expose my true intentions. I'm actually criticizing their culture that breeds this and accepts this (to a degree). As a country, I recognize them as good people (the majority), but as a culture, I feel they've been heading in the wrong direction and have been continuing down that path. |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 9:28 PM
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Korotoko said: In all honesty, I am not racist by any means, but slowly but surely I may become one. I know I shouldn't group Japan with these scumbags as well, but I'm pretty sure its culture cultivates people like this and other disturbing activities (train molesting, child molesting, incest). What am I misunderstanding? You not only admit that you "slowly but surely may become a racist towards Japan", but you blame Japan's culture as a whole for cultivating people like this. Expose your true intentions? You say that, and then immediately criticize the Japanese culture as a whole a sentence afterwards AGAIN. So I think you may be a little confused here. Your intentions never changed. You think that the Japanese culture as a whole breeds this and accepts this. I'm here to tell you that that statement in and of itself is ridiculously ignorant. If you do not recognize that simple fact, then there is no reason or point to argue, which is why I went back to your original post. Like I previously stated, Blood has already tried, listing out several reasons why that was an extremely ignorant statement. You still fail to see why, and so I won't sit here trying to convince you as well. |
What am I misunderstanding? You not only admit that you "slowly but surely may become a racist towards Japan", but you blame Japan's culture as a whole for cultivating people like this. Expose your true intentions? You say that, and then immediately criticize the Japanese culture as a whole a sentence afterwards AGAIN. So I think you may be a little confused here. Your intentions never changed. You think that the Japanese culture as a whole breeds this and accepts this. I'm here to tell you that that statement in and of itself is ridiculously ignorant. I don't recognize that. I'm telling you what I mean right now and you're basically saying "NO, THIS IS WHAT YOU MEAN." Seriously, how ass backwards is that? If you do not recognize that simple fact, then there is no reason or point to argue, which is why I went back to your original post. Like I previously stated, Blood has already tried, listing out several reasons why that was an extremely ignorant statement. You still fail to see why, and so I won't sit here trying to convince you as well. It really isn't ignorant when you really think about it. In the end, rekindledflame has already made me recognize I was wrong (for the most part), and I'm fine with conceding the argument. Although I don't believe their culture cultivates the majority of the population, (like you said, some people play video games and don't necessarily follow it) it influences some, those who are probably out of whack in the first place. The level of impact a video game has strictly depends on an individual's state of mind or level of sanity. Let a good kid play GTA and nothing will happen, let a psychopath play it on the other hand... he'll probably get some new ideas. In my case, I thought this glorification of things, (for example) train molesting would motivate this behavior even more rather than prevent it (which is why it is so incredibly common in Japan). It's really weird that the glorification of child molesting is actually having an opposite effect on pedophiles though, but if that's what the studies are saying, sure. |
ElusiusMar 17, 2012 9:42 PM
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| Summary: > Single out an entire country over crimes that can happen anywhere. > Get called out on it. > Start to spin your own words meanings in order to provide enough wiggle room to argue back, albeit semi-incoherently. > Edit your first post an hour later in a manner that shows obvious intent to diminish the visual harshness. > Continue to argue in denial. > Eventually resort to lying, then get caught: Claim you saw post-crime pictures of both "Junko Furuta" and the girl Bloodcalibur used as an example who got raped by ~30 males in front of dozens of spectators. All without realizing that the name Junko Furuta is actually not her real name and that those pictures on Google are from a movie based on the crime. > Dodge the inquiry about posting a link to where you saw the American girl's post-crime pictures. > Become even more incoherent to the point that Bloodcalibur starts to lose enthusiasm for arguing your points, because you eventually had no points. Rape Crime Rates By Country Per Capita (just in case you don't know what that means, it means by ratio, population-wise): http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita Not to mention Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Some examples against specific countries of my choice (but you can use this site to compare it to any country you want on the left panel): Japan vs USA http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime Japan vs UK http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/United-Kingdom/Crime And hell, I'll use my own country of origin too. Japan vs Philippines http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/Philippines/Crime If you had any idea what some towns are like in the Philippines you would never have even published your original post. Civil wars are common in one of my family and friends' home city. People get hacked to death, kidnapped, shot by stray bullets, entire families of women get raped by opposing groups, all in the middle of the province. And all this happens in a pretty normal monthly basis, to the extent that residents facial expressions don't even change when something happens. Conversations like, "oh so and so got raped last night" are normal topics considered to be casual. In January 2011 I had to attend my best friend's wedding. We returned to the Philippines since it would easier for his girl's family to attend if it took place over there. His little brother who died here in Brooklyn a decade ago who also happened to be one of my closest friends is buried in a neighboring town to where the wedding would take place. I wanted to pay his grave (more like a shrine, cuz they devoted an entire garden to him) a visit. The portion of his family who lives in that town specifically, had to give me my own M16 to carry around and a bullet proof vest. Him too. And this was a normal thing. That's how bad it is. I can't even visit a good friend's resting place without putting on a vest, helm, and carrying an M16 around. Christ. So please, get off your high horse about Japan being the worst or even being near the worst, cuz it's far from it. There's some twisted countries out there under the illusion of being a modernized society that are worse. Do you even know what I meant by being disappointed that you live in the same city of New York as me? It wasn't to troll. It was because you talk pretty damn reckless for someone who's experienced Brooklyn in the 90's. You'd think that having gone to school here you'd be a little more careful about your words. P.S. Fun Fact: I was born in a town with the highest crime rate in all of Philippines. That's why I don't like vacationing over there. I don't feel like getting killed just because some idiot who has nothing going for him feels like shooting someone randomly. |
BloodcaliburMar 18, 2012 6:35 AM
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Legendre said: In all honesty, I am not racist by any means, but slowly but surely I may become one. I know I shouldn't group Japan with these scumbags as well, but I'm pretty sure its culture cultivates people like this and other disturbing activities (train molesting, child molesting, incest). personally the culture of japan, from what i've seen tends to cultivate a much more civilized society than what we have here in the u.s.a. - in japan release valves are created for mankind's more violent/twisted/perverse elements via video games, manga, anime, cosplay, etc., while here in the u.s. many of these things are fringe or taboo activities (my emphasis is on playacting/fantasy in japan, where in the u.s. we are taught to live in the moment and take things as they are) - in japan the levels of violent and twisted crime are much lower than they are in the u.s., and i think that is because of the japanese people's rich fantasy life - here in the u.s. we are taught to hold it all in and act "normal"; too much of a rich fantasy life is considered to be wasteful or even perverse - i believe any civilized modern society needs release valves so we can live out our outre fantasies in a safe way rather than bottling up our feelings for years until they set in and create a kind of mental rot and we began to believe that we are the freaks - this is what really creates a criminal where one wasn't before - sadly, we must also realize some people on this planet (in every country) are just born/turned into psychopathic/sociopathic beings by bad childhoods or whatever - to say japan's culture creates psychopathic behavior is flat out avoidance of fact and maybe even racism - check your facts before you make suppositions! all nations in this world have violent and twisted crime - to judge one country for this is just pure idiocy!!! my biggest embarrassment is knowing citizens of the united states would even make statements like the one above when things here are so much worse regarding violent/sex crime here... |
octal9Mar 18, 2012 8:20 AM
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octal9 said: . Hey guy, you quoted the wrong person's name into that quote. You might want to correct that so as to maintain the integrity of the debate people have been having. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Bloodcalibur said: Summary: > Single out an entire country over crimes that can happen anywhere. > Get called out on it. > Start to spin your own words meanings in order to provide enough wiggle room to argue back, albeit semi-incoherently. > Edit your first post an hour later in a manner that shows obvious intent to diminish the visual harshness. > Continue to argue in denial. > Eventually resort to lying, then get caught: Claim you saw post-crime pictures of both "Junko Furuta" and the girl Bloodcalibur used as an example who got raped by ~30 males in front of dozens of spectators. All without realizing that the name Junko Furuta is actually not her real name and that those pictures on Google are from a movie based on the crime. > Dodge the inquiry about posting a link to where you saw the American girl's post-crime pictures. > Become even more incoherent to the point that Bloodcalibur starts to lose enthusiasm for arguing your points, because you eventually had no points. After all the debating and telling me to calm down, yet egging me on with snark comments, which is counterproductive by the way, it seems like you're the one getting mad now. Weird twist. - Single out an entire country? No. I singled out their culture, which in that same post I admitted was wrong. - Spin the meaning of my words? False, I mean everything I say. Everything I'm displaying in front of you is exactly what I'm conveying. - Edit your first post an hour later? Sure to elaborate on it more. Don't twist what actually happened by majorly exaggerating it. - Argue in denial? I already said I AM WRONG in not only grouping a whole country together with scumbags, but also in the belief that their culture cultivates certain behaviors (I'm convinced 95% of the way), that's pretty good when you think about some stubborn I've been. Oh wait, before you say I'm in denial of admitting I'm wrong, let me say it one last time. I Korotoko, am wrong. Jeez, you act like a care about being right or wrong. I'm only in pursuit of the truth, if somehow I'm wrong about something, I will gladly change to accommodate that. That is the beauty of growth. - Resort to lying? You seem paranoid now. I, just learning about this case yesterday, genuinely thought those pictures were real. Even if they weren't the descriptions are far more vivid then what happened to the girl you talked about. - This is who you're talking about right? > http://www.salon.com/2009/10/27/gang_rape/ > http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-28/justice/california.gang.rape.bystander_1_bystander-crime-prevention-kitty-genovese/3?_s=PM:CRIME She was raped, not tortured for 44 days. If she was getting horribly mutiliated and other things, despite how despicable the bystanders were by doing nothing, even they would of stepped in if it got too bad. - Incoherent? Yeah... no. Rape Crime Rates By Country Per Capita (just in case you don't know what that means, it means by ratio, population-wise): http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita Not to mention Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Some examples against specific countries of my choice (but you can use this site to compare it to any country you want on the left panel): Japan vs USA http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime Japan vs UK http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/United-Kingdom/Crime And hell, I'll use my own country of origin too. Japan vs Philippines http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/Philippines/Crime Statistics... Lol, I'm not even going to bother. If you had any idea what some towns are like in the Philippines you would never have even published your original post. Civil wars are common in one of my family and friends' home city. People get hacked to death, kidnapped, shot by stray bullets, entire families of women get raped by opposing groups, all in the middle of the province. And all this happens in a pretty normal monthly basis, to the extent that residents facial expressions don't even change when something happens. Conversations like, "oh so and so got raped last night" are normal topics considered to be casual. In January 2011 I had to attend my best friend's wedding. We returned to the Philippines since it would easier for his girl's family to attend if it took place over there. His little brother who died here in Brooklyn a decade ago who also happened to be one of my closest friends is buried in a neighboring town to where the wedding would take place. I wanted to pay his grave (more like a shrine, cuz they devoted an entire garden to him) a visit. I don't think acts against people in war should be considered or related to this situation. We're talking about a country not engaged in any war. The portion of his family who lives in that town specifically, had to give me my own M16 to carry around and a bullet proof vest. Him too. And this was a normal thing. That's how bad it is. I can't even visit a good friend's resting place without putting on a vest, helm, and carrying an M16 around. Christ. So please, get off your high horse about Japan being the worst or even being near the worst, cuz it's far from it. There's some twisted countries out there under the illusion of being a modernized society that are worse. Seriously man, where the hell did I say Japan is the worst in terms of crime? Quote that statement. Because now you're talking about crime in general, something I'm clearly not insinuating. Do you even know what I meant by being disappointed that you live in the same city of New York as me? It wasn't to troll. It was because you talk pretty damn reckless for someone who's experienced Brooklyn in the 90's. You'd think that having gone to school here you'd be a little more careful about your words. Relax, just learn to debate civilly and I'll give you the same respect. So again, I'm not talking about crime in general. I'm talking about those that step in the realm of psychotic (especially in modern societies, not 3rd world), not indiscriminate gang or war violence. I'm talking about special cases, something not common even in the most crime heavy countries. P.S. Fun Fact: I was born in a town with the highest crime rate in all of Philippines. That's why I don't like vacationing over there. I don't feel like getting killed just because some idiot who has nothing going for him feels like shooting someone randomly. You know, we have way too many things in common. Although I was born in N.Y., I am a Filipino. I've been to Davao many times and that place is beautiful. I do hear stories of turmoil, corrupt leaders, civil wars and other conflicts, but I've never really seen it. I do see the extreme poverty though. Anyways, I've spent too much time on this topic, even for my liking so this is my last response. Let's put this to rest. I'm wrong, you're right, you win, I lose. Happy? Edit: I also you noticed you designed your profile the same way I did. Inspired by me? High compatibility... several identical favorite characters, mangas, people... I have no idea why the person that annoys me most right now, has so much in common with me. I'm young and obviously I still have a lot to learn and experience. I'm fine with making mistakes or being wrong, because that just means there's still more room to grow. *cracks knuckles* I learned a few new things so I guess this debate was pretty educational after all, good stuff. |
ElusiusMar 18, 2012 12:45 PM
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
| Despite this news, Jp is still one of the safest countries to live in. Crimes do happen there. See 3-11 and let's compare it with ... let's say Katrina. The main focus is the punishment being too unfair and that it happens in such a highly modernized civilization. There are more horrible ones in Africa/war areas and no one cares. Jp's law had become too lenient (towards the under-aged) decades ago, possibly due to the over-confidence in their low crime rate - similar scenarios as in Norway. But Jp has changed after this. |
| @Bloodcalibur I am really amazed how you can actually bother starting arguments in every other thread here.. Especially given how hard you seem to try to write dissertations in each post, efforts spent to prove a point to a random person on an anime forumboard a remarkably crappy forumboard.. No hard feelings, simply curious. Because from my point of view, it seems like a complete waste of time. |
The Internet is a very bad place, you should never go there. |
Inconscient said: @Bloodcalibur I am really amazed how you can actually bother starting arguments in every other thread here.. Especially given how hard you seem to try to write dissertations in each post, efforts spent to prove a point to a random person on an anime forumboard a remarkably crappy forumboard.. No hard feelings, simply curious. Because from my point of view, it seems like a complete waste of time. I don't start arguments, I merely respond to things I don't agree with. The same way many of us do on here. And of course the person is going to respond with their defense because people care about how they look on the internet, which is funny to me. I just happen to navigate my debates in such a manner that causes more entertainment than most. Humans after all are like chess pieces on a chessboard, and it brings a satisfying smirk to my face to move those pieces around. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Bloodcalibur said: Inconscient said: @Bloodcalibur I am really amazed how you can actually bother starting arguments in every other thread here.. Especially given how hard you seem to try to write dissertations in each post, efforts spent to prove a point to a random person on an anime forumboard a remarkably crappy forumboard.. No hard feelings, simply curious. Because from my point of view, it seems like a complete waste of time. I don't start arguments, I merely respond to things I don't agree with. The same way many of us do on here. I just happen to navigate my debates in such a manner that causes more entertainment than most. Humans after all are like chess pieces on a chessboard, and it brings a satisfying smirk to my face to move those pieces around. Well, you did reply to him in the first place, which indicates you took the fist shot. He does have the right to state his opinion as long as he's not shoving it onto everyone else, not that you don't have the right to disagree but you do know that might lead to yet another pointless argument. He has an opinion, he's not going to change it simply because of your writings.. >Writing a thesis in every post = entertainment?  Ohh well.. I concur, it's a good feeling when you win an argument. However, I try my best not to take satisfaction in winning arguments on MAL, since most of the people here can't argue for shit. |
datfagMar 18, 2012 2:23 PM
The Internet is a very bad place, you should never go there. |
Inconscient said: Well, you did reply to him in the first place, which indicates you took the fist shot. He does have the right to state his opinion as long as he's not shoving it onto everyone else, not that you don't have the right to disagree but you do know that might lead to yet another pointless argument. He has an opinion, he's not going to just change it simply because of your writings.. But he did. Inconscient said: >Writing a thesis in every post = entertainment? Ohh well.. I concur, it's a good feeling when you win an argument. However, I try my best not to take satisfaction in winning arguments on MAL Oh no worries, it's not about winning or the feeling of winning. I do enough of that in places that matter, too secure to care. I simply find it interesting to see how far people go when they squirm through an argument they know they can't win. Sometimes I'll purposely leave out holes so they can respond back a few more times. It makes that moment that they finally admit they're wrong all the more amusing. Because....I mean, just think about what goes on their head =d. And it isn't trolling because I'm seriously genuine with my desire to debate about something I disagree with. Inconscient said: , since most of the people here can't argue for shit. You're right. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
But he did. Let's step back abit, no I didn't. In the first post I stated "MY OPINION..." Oh no worries, it's not about winning or the feeling of winning. I do enough of that in places that matter, too secure to care. I simply find it interesting to see how far people go when they squirm through an argument they know they can't win. Sometimes I'll purposely leave out holes so they can respond back a few more times. It makes that moment that they finally admit they're wrong all the more amusing. Because....I mean, just think about what goes on their head =d. And it isn't trolling because I'm seriously genuine with my desire to debate about something I disagree with. This would be cool if you know, I didn't admit that my way of thinking was wrong in my first post. My FIRST POST. And you didn't do anything, the person who convinced me in my 2nd argument was not you, but rekindledflame. My last post definitely was going to be my last, but I can't turn away from nonsense sometimes. Get off your high horse. Confidence is one thing, but you're sounding a bit too arrogant here. |
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
| Oh boy. The internet. It makes me smile. Korotoko said: Let's step back abit, no I didn't. In the first post I stated "MY OPINION..." You changed your mind. Korotoko said: And you didn't do anything, the person who convinced me in my 2nd argument was not you, but rekindledflame. You're right, I went to bed and 8 hours later I wake up to find you getting owned by two other people in the debate. Then you changed your mind. But you won't change your mind if you're feeling like you're being belittled. But that's why you're my puppet. This is where you stop posting so the topic can go back to normal now. Korotoko said: My last post definitely was going to be my last You said that in the other thread too. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Bloodcalibur said: Oh boy. The internet. It makes me smile. Korotoko said: Let's step back abit, no I didn't. In the first post I stated "MY OPINION..." You changed your mind. Korotoko said: And you didn't do anything, the person who convinced me in my 2nd argument was not you, but rekindledflame. You're right, I went to bed and 8 hours later I wake up to find you getting owned by two other people in the debate. Then you changed your mind. But you won't change your mind if you're feeling like you're being belittled. But that's why you're my puppet. This is where you stop posting so the topic can go back to normal now. You mention people caring too much about how they look on the internet, but I think you're describing yourself. Look how much time YOU spend in topics engaging in arguments. You're seemingly in serious business mode the majority of the time. And if you purposely left loopholes in your argument for me, my question to you is why? If you could've saved yourself and myself a WHOLE lot of wasted time, why didn't you? Some people avoid lengthening arguments. You on the other hand, you seem to love the drama. But who knows, maybe you just like wasting your time seeing as how you've more than tripled the amount of posts I've made in just one month. I joined this site Feb 2010 and you joined Feb 2012, yet you have 400+ more posts than me. Bravo. Belittled? You're just a stepping stone for me. A tool to extract information from and grow. And owned? Hardly, sure he convinced me that maybe I'm wrong (although not fully), I'd was open to both sides of the spectrum in the first place. Like I said, I don't care if I'm right or wrong, I'm only in pursuit of the truth. If somehow I am wrong, I will gladly change to accommodate that. (Reiterated) You seriously care WAY too much. My last post definitely was going to be my last Indeed, but you always make witty remarks in response that beg for attention and I know that now. Let's just say, I'll stop when you stop. Lesson learned. See? Growth. |
ElusiusMar 18, 2012 3:13 PM
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
Korotoko said: And if you purposely left loopholes in your argument for me, my question to you is why? If you could've saved yourself and myself a WHOLE lot of wasted time, why didn't you? Bloodcalibur said: It makes that moment that they finally admit they're wrong all the more amusing. Because....I mean, just think about what goes on their head =d Korotoko said: Belittled? You're just a stepping stone for me. A tool to extract information and grow. And owned? Hardly, sure he convinced me that maybe I'm wrong (although not fully), I'd was open to both sides of the spectrum in the first place. Like I said, I don't care if I'm right or wrong, I'm only in pursuit of the truth. If somehow I am wrong, I will gladly change to accommodate that. (Reiterated) Okay Naruto. Korotoko said: You seriously care WAY too much. Irony. |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos" Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
Okay Naruto. That show sucks. See. If you end things like this I'm fine. End it with a troll response. |
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
| @Korotoko, I read only your first opinion on Japan. I disagree on like everything, they might seem "strange" for you.. but their crime rates are lower. And this case is "dressed-up", you can't have such precise details, but it does not mean that it's less tragic. Tragedies happen in other countries too, I don't see big difference between them - suffering is suffering. I'm sure Bloodcalibur tried to explain it for several times, and not even that, by looking how much posts he made for you. If you changed your opinion - then why not stop on that and say "sorry"? Instead of making circus. Buy hey, it's always spectacular when Bloodcalibur is the puppetmaster. |
| LUL |
one-more-time said: @Korotoko, I read only your first opinion on Japan. Tell you what, read more and come back. Maybe by then I'll take your advice. And why the hell would I apologize for stating an opinion? one-more-time said: @Korotoko, I read only your first opinion on Japan. I disagree on like everything, they might seem "strange" for you.. but their crime rates are lower. And this case is "dressed-up", you can't have such precise details, but it does not mean that it's less tragic. Yes you can, forensic science can give you descriptions like these. Tragedies happen in other countries too, I don't see big difference between them - suffering is suffering. "The main focus is the punishment being too unfair and that it happens in such a highly modernized civilization." - This sums it up perfectly. |
ElusiusMar 18, 2012 3:33 PM
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
Korotoko said: Tell you what, read more and come back. Maybe by then I'll take your advice. And why the hell would I apologize for stating an opinion? No need, far too ignorant. If you're not ashamed of what you wrote.. then I dunno. Korotoko said: Yes you can, forensic science can give you descriptions like these. I think you should stop watching CSI and rest TV-shows. Korotoko said: "The main focus is the punishment being too unfair and that it happens in such a highly modernized civilization." - This sums it up perfectly. What do you mean - "Unfair"? Are you one of those "eye for an eye" guys? How that makes you any better than the criminal? And their crime rates are still lower with, as you say, unfair punishment.. what's the problem? Anyways, I'm off in few minutes.. I wanted to finish the episode 1hour ago.. f. you guys. |
| LUL |
| Neither party is free of 'guilt'. But, in the spirit of the bemoaned-of sentence in the case, I'll give a 2-minute suspended sentence. |
 |
No need, far too ignorant. If you're not ashamed of what you wrote.. then I dunno. lol I'm not ashamed because I stated I was wrong in the first place, that's why you need to read carefully so I don't have to reiterate these things. In that same first post, read it carefully. I think you should stop watching CSI and rest TV-shows. Before transfering, I went to a school called John Jay College of Criminal Justice and studied Forensics. CSI shows? Lol, no. Funny, but no. Testimony, evidence, and forensic science goes a LONG way. What do you mean - "Unfair"? Are you one of those "eye for an eye" guys? How that makes you any better than the criminal? And their crime rates are still lower with, as you say, unfair punishment.. what's the problem? No I'm not and that's a whole other topic within itself. My problem? Despite having low crime, something of this calibre has to be judged properly. Low crime is no excuse for giving people slaps on the wrist (8 years) for brutally torturing a girl. Anyways, I'm off in few minutes.. I wanted to finish the episode 1hour ago.. f. you guys. Shoo then. |
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
Korotoko said: Shoo then. I am. But don't let Bloodcalibur go anal.. oh wait, he already did. Have fun time ;3 |
| LUL |
one-more-time said: Korotoko said: Shoo then. I am. But don't let Bloodcalibur go anal.. oh wait, he already did. Have fun time ;3 he is. |
| Feel free to join my club if you like Armored Core: |
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