Incest in Anime

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Dec 2017

1527

CrustyRolls said:
I just view the whole nii-chan/nee-chan thing similarly to the whole daddy/baby thing, and it doesn't disgust me.

It is annoying the way anime handles it though, and it puts newcomers off of watching anime, which is a shame.

The only anime with incest in it that I didn't find annoying was Ouran, Koi Kaze and Yosuga no Sora.

In Ouran, I found the gag funny.
In Yosuga and Koi Kaze, they both handled it pretty well and I wasn't offended. They acknowledged how taboo and difficult it would be to fall in love with your sibling, and didn't sugar-coat it like other shows do.

I don't actually know if this is satire or real.

Yeah right there is no way a doujin about vomit exists.
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May 9, 2018 8:22 PM

#203

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Jul 2018

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Zerity said:
people who don't have siblings like that shit people with siblings think its disgusting. As long as there are people without siblings the appeal of this will still stay.

I have a sister. I don't give half a shit about incest.

People really need to start minding their own business instead of telling two consenting adults whether they can or can't fuck.

May 9, 2018 9:49 PM

#204

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Lord_Sithis said:
People really need to start minding their own business instead of telling two consenting adults whether they can or can't fuck.

Except unlike other odd kinks that may be otherwise harmless, incest does actually pose a genuine threat to society, which is why it is so universally taboo.

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 9, 2018 9:52 PM

#205

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Jul 2018

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Lord_Sithis said:
People really need to start minding their own business instead of telling two consenting adults whether they can or can't fuck.

So we're not allowed to have an opinion? Ok.

Age was never specified. I'm saying incest for ALL ages regardless of any circumstances.

May 9, 2018 9:58 PM

#206

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Jul 2018

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Arimias said:

Lord_Sithis said:
People really need to start minding their own business instead of telling two consenting adults whether they can or can't fuck.

So we're not allowed to have an opinion? Ok.

Age was never specified. I'm saying incest for ALL ages regardless of any circumstances.

The point is that two consenting adults are free to have sex. We have no right to tell them they can't.

Psyotic said:

Lord_Sithis said:
People really need to start minding their own business instead of telling two consenting adults whether they can or can't fuck.

Except unlike other odd kinks that may be otherwise harmless, incest does actually pose a genuine threat to society, which is why it is so universally taboo.

It actually doesn't if you act responsible. And if you don't act responsible, there are a lot of worse things, and those are not taboo.

May 9, 2018 10:04 PM

#207

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Jul 2018

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Lord_Sithis said:
The point is that two consenting adults are free to have sex. We have no right to tell them they can't.

Sure, if it's legal in a specific country and they're adults, no problem. Even though I'd fight against that law, law is law in certain countries. But for 90% of the world, it is, by law, illegal to be conducting acts of incest. Why? There are many reason why it's bad and unhealthy for a society. Shall I give you a list?

May 9, 2018 10:06 PM

#208

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Arimias said:

Lord_Sithis said:
The point is that two consenting adults are free to have sex. We have no right to tell them they can't.

Sure, if it's legal in a specific country and they're adults, no problem. Even though I'd fight against that law, law is law in certain countries. But for 90% of the world, it is, by law, illegal to be conducting acts of incest. Why? There are many reason why it's bad and unhealthy for a society. Shall I give you a list?

Sure, but that entire list is void by the simple act of using a condom.

May 9, 2018 10:09 PM

#209

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Jul 2018

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Lord_Sithis said:
Sure, but that entire list is void by the simple act of using a condom.

A condom isn't a good counter-argument since it's not 100% guaranteed you still won't get your sister/cousin pregnant.

Just a question out of curiosity: If your sister started to have sexual feelings towards you, would you feel comfortable giving her a chance?

May 9, 2018 10:12 PM

#210

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Jul 2018

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Arimias said:

Lord_Sithis said:
Sure, but that entire list is void by the simple act of using a condom.

A condom isn't a good counter-argument since it's not 100% guaranteed you still won't get your sister/cousin pregnant.

Just a question out of curiosity: If your sister started to have sexual feelings towards you, would you feel comfortable giving her a chance?

Then we have pills, abortion, etc. No big deal. On top of this, no, you won't have retarded babies by getting your sister pregnant, this is way overexaggerated. Do some research and you'll find having kids in your late 30s or 40s has a higher risk of genetic defects than incest.

I mean, I'm not attracted to my sister, but if I were, then sure, why not?

May 9, 2018 10:13 PM

#211

HowTragic

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Oct 2010

464

Honestly, people can fuck a train station nowadays, so I don't see what's so wrong with two consenting adults who love each other. And before I get this mass triggering on the issue of genetics, realize that it takes generations upon generations of consanguinity to produce any clinically significant increase in rare autosomal recessive disorders. More dead in-utero fetuses perhaps, but who cares.

People tend to not view their sister as a sexual partner because long term living under the same roof conditions you psychologically to see them more as a sibling than the opposite sex. The same can't be said if you've never had this conditioning due to living apart - cue the almighty (t)(w)incest animu Yosuga no Sora.

May 9, 2018 10:13 PM

#212

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Aug 2016

1601

Lord_Sithis said:
It actually doesn't if you act responsible. And if you don't act responsible, there are a lot of worse things, and those are not taboo.

Indeed not all things deemed bad are bad in certain situations. However, there is the case that when something is bad most of the time, then it is best to deem it so. Therefore that it should follow that the simple proposition that people can act responsibly is not enough to suppose that something isn't wrong, but rather that people do act responsibly. As such, incest is still wrong.

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 9, 2018 10:16 PM

#213

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Psyotic said:

Lord_Sithis said:
It actually doesn't if you act responsible. And if you don't act responsible, there are a lot of worse things, and those are not taboo.

Indeed not all things deemed bad are bad in certain situations. However, there is the case that when something is bad most of the time, then it is best to deem it so. Therefore that it should follow that the simple proposition that people can act responsibly is not enough to suppose that something isn't wrong, but rather that people do act responsibly. As such, incest is still wrong.

Nope, incest is not wrong. I said before the genetic defects aspect is way overexaggerated. Even then, there's plenty of birth control methods in case you're truly worried about destroying society with retarded babies.

May 9, 2018 10:17 PM

#214

Yuki_Nonaka

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Oct 2016

1065

Kuroda said:
Hey guys, I hope you're having a wonderful day!

Oh YEAH THANKS I DID HAVE A GOOD DAY. :^)

May 9, 2018 10:17 PM

#215

dinesj21

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Mar 2014

2021

I don't understand it and makes me a little uncomfortable to watch. If the show is good enough I will keep watching it, but I wouldn't have a problem dropping it if that was all it had to offer.

May 9, 2018 10:20 PM

#216

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Aug 2016

1601

Lord_Sithis said:
Nope, incest is not wrong.

Why not? If something is not wrong, then it must be good, correct? So why is incest good?

I said before the genetic defects aspect is way overexaggerated. Even then, there's plenty of birth control methods in case you're truly worried about destroying society with retarded babies.

That is assuming that there is, in fact, only one reason as to why incest is viewed as harmful. But given that you're accepting that if something does cause harm, if only in certain circumstances, then it is wrong in those circumstances is it not? So if such circumstances are far more prevalent and greater in number than the circumstances in which it isn't harmful, then it seems like a valid assertion that as a whole it is harmful.

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 9, 2018 10:22 PM

#217

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Psyotic said:

Lord_Sithis said:
Nope, incest is not wrong.

Why not? If something is not wrong, then it must be good, correct? So why is incest good?

I said before the genetic defects aspect is way overexaggerated. Even then, there's plenty of birth control methods in case you're truly worried about destroying society with retarded babies.

That is assuming that there is, in fact, only one reason as to why incest is viewed as harmful. But given that you're accepting that if something does cause harm, if only in certain circumstances, then it is wrong in those circumstances is it not? So if such circumstances are far more prevalent and greater in number than the circumstances in which it isn't harmful, then it seems like a valid assertion that as a whole it is harmful.

Ehm... excuse me? I would re-read my last few posts and not assume things.

May 9, 2018 10:24 PM

#218

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Aug 2016

1601

Lord_Sithis said:
Ehm... excuse me? I would re-read my last few posts and not assume things.

I'm not terribly interested in your discussions with other people. Let me ask you this, would a brother and a sister raising a family together with their own kids be wrong? Yes or no.

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 9, 2018 10:25 PM

#219

NickDen

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Dec 2017

343

Lord_Sithis said:

Arimias said:

A condom isn't a good counter-argument since it's not 100% guaranteed you still won't get your sister/cousin pregnant.

Just a question out of curiosity: If your sister started to have sexual feelings towards you, would you feel comfortable giving her a chance?

Then we have pills, abortion, etc. No big deal. On top of this, no, you won't have retarded babies by getting your sister pregnant, this is way overexaggerated. Do some research and you'll find having kids in your late 30s or 40s has a higher risk of genetic defects than incest.

I mean, I'm not attracted to my sister, but if I were, then sure, why not?

EYYY BRUH YOU GOTTA CHILL. In all seriousness, if you wanna fuck your sister I ain't judging man but you can't deny the increased risk of birth defects that result from an incestuous relationship.

May 9, 2018 10:26 PM

#220

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Psyotic said:

Lord_Sithis said:
Ehm... excuse me? I would re-read my last few posts and not assume things.

I'm not terribly interested in your discussions with other people. Let me ask you this, would a brother and a sister raising a family together with their own kids be wrong? Yes or no.

I could say the same.

It wouldn't be wrong as long as it's only one generation. We only see it as wrong because society tells us it's wrong, just like it has happened in the past with way too many different things.

May 9, 2018 10:29 PM

#221

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NickDen said:

Lord_Sithis said:

Then we have pills, abortion, etc. No big deal. On top of this, no, you won't have retarded babies by getting your sister pregnant, this is way overexaggerated. Do some research and you'll find having kids in your late 30s or 40s has a higher risk of genetic defects than incest.

I mean, I'm not attracted to my sister, but if I were, then sure, why not?

EYYY BRUH YOU GOTTA CHILL. In all seriousness, if you wanna fuck your sister I ain't judging man but you can't deny the increased risk of birth defects that result from an incestuous relationship.

I can't. The increase is just so insignificant that having kids as an old adult has higher chance of birth defect than young siblings having kids. You would need generations upon generations for that insignificant chance to truly grow, like that one Spanish guy.

May 9, 2018 10:34 PM

#222

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Lord_Sithis said:

NickDen said:

EYYY BRUH YOU GOTTA CHILL. In all seriousness, if you wanna fuck your sister I ain't judging man but you can't deny the increased risk of birth defects that result from an incestuous relationship.

I can't. The increase is just so insignificant that having kids as an old adult has higher chance of birth defect than young siblings having kids. You would need generations upon generations for that insignificant chance to truly grow, like that one Spanish guy.

So are you denying the biological cost of incest and how it's an almost 50% guaranteed chance the baby born of incest will have a birth defect?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

May 9, 2018 10:35 PM

#223

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Aug 2016

1601

Lord_Sithis said:
We only see it as wrong because society tells us it's wrong, just like it has happened in the past with way too many different things.

Like I stated earlier, societal norms are not arbitrary things that come into existence out of a simple vacuum. As with many things, things are generally wrong for a reason. Whether or not those reasons are valid is what matters. And in the case of incest, which is such a taboo that virtually all societies frown up on it, and can be so destructive for a species that similar behaviors can be found in plants and animals, that simply stating that we only see it as wrong because society deems it so reduces us to being simple social puppets.

As we have seen time and time again, when the notion that something isn't wrong becomes so prevalent that society completely shifts away from considering it a taboo, that such behavior becomes more prevalent. So it no longer becomes just a simple matter of just a single generation of incest, but if us seeing incest as wrong is purely because society deems it so, what is to say that it will not continue through multiple generations?

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 10, 2018 12:21 AM

#224

WhaleCostume

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Dec 2007

1473

If you don't understand a fetish, having someone explain it to you will not help you understand it ever. It is a personal taste. It's like asking someone why they like certain types of food that you don't enjoy. You're never going to understand it...

Just accept that everyone likes different things and don't try to abolish/censor any of it.

May 10, 2018 2:27 AM

#225

TsukuyomiREKT

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May 2015

5397

Psyotic said:
Incest is degenerate and people who enjoy incest anime are degenerate. The anime industry should stop promoting such degenerate behaviors and start producing more quality works.

How's the weather up on your high horse?

May 10, 2018 5:36 AM

#226

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Jul 2018

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Psyotic said:

Lord_Sithis said:
We only see it as wrong because society tells us it's wrong, just like it has happened in the past with way too many different things.

Like I stated earlier, societal norms are not arbitrary things that come into existence out of a simple vacuum. As with many things, things are generally wrong for a reason. Whether or not those reasons are valid is what matters. And in the case of incest, which is such a taboo that virtually all societies frown up on it, and can be so destructive for a species that similar behaviors can be found in plants and animals, that simply stating that we only see it as wrong because society deems it so reduces us to being simple social puppets.

As we have seen time and time again, when the notion that something isn't wrong becomes so prevalent that society completely shifts away from considering it a taboo, that such behavior becomes more prevalent. So it no longer becomes just a simple matter of just a single generation of incest, but if us seeing incest as wrong is purely because society deems it so, what is to say that it will not continue through multiple generations?

You do know homosexuality was seen as taboo and destructive by society right?

Arimias said:

Lord_Sithis said:

I can't. The increase is just so insignificant that having kids as an old adult has higher chance of birth defect than young siblings having kids. You would need generations upon generations for that insignificant chance to truly grow, like that one Spanish guy.

So are you denying the biological cost of incest and how it's an almost 50% guaranteed chance the baby born of incest will have a birth defect?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

Come on, give me a better "study" than this... thing.

May 10, 2018 5:39 AM

#227

Weirdo47

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Aug 2017

344

I dunno why but, although the real thing disgusts me, I don't mind it in anime

May 10, 2018 5:39 AM

#228

NeoLegendX

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Apr 2017

388

if you ask me
that sort of fetish is disgusting

May 10, 2018 6:05 AM

#229

CrustyRolls

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May 2014

932

Botan-Chan45 said:

CrustyRolls said:
I just view the whole nii-chan/nee-chan thing similarly to the whole daddy/baby thing, and it doesn't disgust me.

It is annoying the way anime handles it though, and it puts newcomers off of watching anime, which is a shame.

The only anime with incest in it that I didn't find annoying was Ouran, Koi Kaze and Yosuga no Sora.

In Ouran, I found the gag funny.
In Yosuga and Koi Kaze, they both handled it pretty well and I wasn't offended. They acknowledged how taboo and difficult it would be to fall in love with your sibling, and didn't sugar-coat it like other shows do.

I don't actually know if this is satire or real.

It's just my opinion, bro. Whats so wrong about it? If you're talking about the whole "sugar coat" part, I still stand by that opinion. Neither show is perfect, but in Yosuga Haru throws up when he finds out Sora loves him, and the relationship pushes everyone else away and all of their friends are disgusted when they find out.
In Koi Kaze, the brother constantly hates himself for how he feels, and when they do start to get closer, it puts their family under strain and ruins the relationship they used to have with each other. In the long run, nobody in Koi Kaze ends up truly happy.

Sorry for the paragraph if that wasn't what you thought must be "satire", but when you leave such a vague and condescending comment, it's hard to know which part of my opinion you are disagreeing with.

May 10, 2018 6:14 AM

#230

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Dec 2017

1527

CrustyRolls said:

Botan-Chan45 said:

I don't actually know if this is satire or real.

It's just my opinion, bro. Whats so wrong about it? If you're talking about the whole "sugar coat" part, I still stand by that opinion. Neither show is perfect, but in Yosuga Haru throws up when he finds out Sora loves him, and the relationship pushes everyone else away and all of their friends are disgusted when they find out.
In Koi Kaze, the brother constantly hates himself for how he feels, and when they do start to get closer, it puts their family under strain and ruins the relationship they used to have with each other. In the long run, nobody in Koi Kaze ends up truly happy.

Sorry for the paragraph if that wasn't what you thought must be "satire", but when you leave such a vague and condescending comment, it's hard to know which part of my opinion you are disagreeing with.

Oh so your like every other commenter here. Nvm It's fucking retarded that this thread still exists.(Sora really? Don't they still fuck.)

Yeah right there is no way a doujin about vomit exists.
Good song https://soundcloud.com/yeungkakit33/op4-hekireki-last-alliance
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Another Good Song Listen to テスト by mukami #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/mukami/77a
Ashita no Joe and Megalo box are disappointing anime.
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May 10, 2018 6:14 AM

#231

Offline

Dec 2017

1527

NeoLegendX said:
if you ask me
that sort of fetish is disgusting

Compared to fart fetish and weird fetishes found on pornhub, not really.(Especially Ntr real life.)

Yeah right there is no way a doujin about vomit exists.
Good song https://soundcloud.com/yeungkakit33/op4-hekireki-last-alliance
Tsumino account is BigMaraIppo
Another Good Song Listen to テスト by mukami #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/mukami/77a
Ashita no Joe and Megalo box are disappointing anime.
My reviews:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Botan-Chan45/reviews
Best Naruto Op: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByCNZxOBVWM&list=RDByCNZxOBVWM&index=1
discord name: Chitoge Kirisaki#9564
https://discord.gg/nGKu6zx my discord server for plebs

May 10, 2018 6:27 AM

#232

Arch-Degenerate

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Sep 2015

7676

CrustyRolls said:
]
It's just my opinion, bro. Whats so wrong about it? If you're talking about the whole "sugar coat" part, I still stand by that opinion. Neither show is perfect, but in Yosuga Haru throws up when he finds out Sora loves him, and the relationship pushes everyone else away and all of their friends are disgusted when they find out.

Haru is nervous and afraid whereas Sora doesn't share those concerns because, well, she loves him and that's what's most important to her. He also goes out of his way to try and find out the history of things and how to avoid issues and tries to research the topic more so he can understand it better so he can reciprocate his feelings in a healthy way. He's still nervous and that's largely portrayed as concerns with the taboos and stigmas surrounding it rather than a sort of revulsion to Sora or being in an incestuous relationship with her.

Also, not all of their friends show disgust, one of the highlights of how it approaches it from a thematic standpoint is being relatively balanced on it and treating multiple standpoints with a sort of respect and making sure there's some kind of representation for such an idea. Some have issues and find it completely disgusting, some people are accepting of their love, so on and so forth, and it's largely left to the viewer to think about when it comes to the taboo itself about whether it's right or wrong - it poses a question on the morality of it and asks the viewer to ponder it themselves, in other words. It provokes thought on the matter, and it does so by addressing different areas and viewpoints on the subject matter and in portraying it as character drama it still allows it to function as more than just a compilation of arguments.

In the end they just decide to run away together and they do sort of fuck all over the house for a good bit in there. To try to play it off as Haru being disgusted or even all of those around them being disgusted makes it seem like you didn't pay attention to how they show treated the aspect at all - he was very much portrayed as confused and concerned and worried about it, but he was also still portrayed as being in love with Sora to a strong degree, and those around them viewed the situation in relatively different ways. For being a soft-hentai, it was surprisingly tactful and willing to portray as many sides to it as possible when it was approaching these themes. Exploring issues with it and how it affects people, exploring why people can accept it and showing a more tolerant viewpoint, it's the one I would encourage people to look to first when it comes to approaching it as a theme compared to Koi Kaze.

Which, contrast with Koi Kaze - which is more what you're saying you approve of here by treating it as both kind of manipulative and as a root of psychological issues or being disgusted with themselves for it. Those things exist, I definitely think they should be frowned upon and are in no way acceptable. And in of itself approaching a series from that dark standpoint is definitely acceptable and there's no issue with that by itself, but if what it was going for wasn't just a dark standpoint or showing how an unhealthy incestuous relationship forms and how unhealthy people can be involved, but instead a realistic depiction of the overhead topic of incest in general like pretty much everybody claims about Koi Kaze being, then it's more or less just creating a scenario where it's setting things up in a way that portrays a much more sinister and unhealthy variant as being the general case and suddenly it becomes much more objectionable and skewed to only show one side of the theme, basically failing as an overhead to question the morality of it and instead showing the side it stands on. If it's meant to function as an overhead questioning of the morality of those kinds of relationships - like the impression I had of it as well as the claims of many other interpretations of it - then it's basically doing the equivalent of rooting out areas that aren't considered rightthink and only showcasing one side to the argument while conveniently ignoring anything else, which isn't at all a healthy way to pose a question on the morality of something within a narrative. Pose the question and then only show one correct answer. It makes it seem more like a propaganda piece than legitimate thought and suddenly the message becomes much more twisted just by that change in focus of how it's trying to address the issue.

If I believed that it wasn't trying for being an overhead, then I wouldn't take issue with it existing, and I would even applaud it for being willing to tackle a taboo and depict something a lot of things other series wouldn't have the balls to touch. But if it's not functioning like that then it becomes much less tact and is only showing one side of the spectrum as a result, which isn't exactly a healthy way to address a strong taboo as an overarching theme and is only suited for just what I said above - showcasing one side or area of the theme and not being broad and general about it.

ManabanMay 10, 2018 6:43 AM

May 10, 2018 6:36 AM

#233

CrustyRolls

Offline

May 2014

932

Botan-Chan45 said:

CrustyRolls said:

It's just my opinion, bro. Whats so wrong about it? If you're talking about the whole "sugar coat" part, I still stand by that opinion. Neither show is perfect, but in Yosuga Haru throws up when he finds out Sora loves him, and the relationship pushes everyone else away and all of their friends are disgusted when they find out.
In Koi Kaze, the brother constantly hates himself for how he feels, and when they do start to get closer, it puts their family under strain and ruins the relationship they used to have with each other. In the long run, nobody in Koi Kaze ends up truly happy.

Sorry for the paragraph if that wasn't what you thought must be "satire", but when you leave such a vague and condescending comment, it's hard to know which part of my opinion you are disagreeing with.

Oh so your like every other commenter here. Nvm It's fucking retarded that this thread still exists.(Sora really? Don't they still fuck.)

It's not "fucking retarded" that this thread still exists, because people are allowed to disagree with you. And whether they fuck or not doesn't affect how well incest is handled in a show. They fuck in Koi Kaze too, by the way, and a lot of people agree it was handled in a mature and comfortable way.
It's ok for me to have the same opinion as others on this thread, it doesn't make your opinion more or less valid depending on how many people agree with you.
And yes, I still think Sora is a valid example because it shows how difficult and depressing it would be to be separated from your friends because of falling for your sibling, and Sora's

highlights that.
Why are you even looking at this thread if you just want to shit on the popular opinion?

May 10, 2018 6:55 AM

#234

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

CrustyRolls said:

And yes, I still think Sora is a valid example because it shows how difficult and depressing it would be to be separated from your friends because of falling for your sibling, and Sora's

highlights that.

Sora's suicide attempt wasn't at all the reaction to being separated from her friends because of falling for Haru, again, I don't think you actually paid attention to the show or are just interpreting it in ways that directly go against how it portrayed these things. Indirectly, maybe, but it's still kind of misdirecting the cause for as much to just pin it on that.

Her suicide attempt was more the result of feeling separated from Haru himself because he was having difficulties coping with a variety of different problems with their relationship, which led to the fight and him shoving and hitting her and trying to break things off. Haru himself had been feeling isolated because of it becoming public knowledge, and that only exacerbated the issues he had already been having in dealing with it and trying to understand it, she herself was portrayed as never being close to Haru's friends and outright viewing them in contempt even. There had been a lot of issues brewing beneath the surface that Haru had been trying to understand and address so things could be alright between them, and eventually if he couldn't have handled it soundly, then something bad would've happened regardless like it did.

Basically, it was very much shown as an acceleration of existing problems, not the only thing that was the issue, there were other stimulants causing depression and anxiety to a high degree as is. And it also not only depicted it as an acceleration of existing issues that had been underlying with their relationship but also showed it as being more of a detriment to them and only making things worse and more difficult for them to handle and deal with, rather than better. It showed other people's responses more as bad for them as people and trying to understand and deal with the relationship rather than just them being depressed about being made distant and it leading to a suicide attempt. Again, that's the sort of tact YnS has that should be noted. It portrayed other existing issues being present aside from just feeling isolated, and it also portrayed said isolation as only making things harder Haru and Sora by a large, large degree and that they couldn't understand or approach these things in a befitting manner that they could come to terms with because of external issues. Isolation wasn't the issue, it was something that exacerbated the already existing issues with their relationship by a large degree. The isolation was very much portrayed as unhelpful or even damaging to things, and it portrayed it as such without distancing itself from the existing problems in their relationship.

So yeah, an indirect cause for the suicide attempt, maybe, but it's a rather surface level interpretation to just narrow it down to that aspect, if I can be honest with you. Her only distress came from Haru, she did genuinely love him for him and it wasn't a matter of them being siblings that made her do so necessarily as much as the bond they had formed growing up together and had she had that bond with somebody else she would've loved them all the same. Haru, while feeling the same way about Sora, had issues with the morality of the topic and how it could affect his and her life negatively, among other things like reproduction and precedence for healthy relationships of this nature - y'know, pretty normal and understandable things to worry about in such a scenario - and when it stopped being a secret and became more public knowledge the isolation and scorn he was met with by many of those around him just served as a catalyst for pushing him over the edge because he couldn't try to explore or understand these things himself, and instead was just seen with sheer contempt and hatred and was doing the thing he wanted to do least - hurting other people by feeling such a way. It was an accelerator stimulating and exacerbating existing problems in their relationship, not the cause itself.

------

I guess for a clarification, since I feel like I didn't word some things particularly well, what I'm saying is that it portrayed people isolating them as bad by itself, not just a natural response to the existing issues. They couldn't try to cope with it or deal with the already existing issues in a healthy way because of some people around them, and it just led to explosions and violence and made existing issues ten times worse. If you take it as being shown as a natural and justified way to respond to such a relationship, then you're missing the point, one of the few stances it legitimately takes is portraying that as a problem in of itself. It's basically taking people who would respond like that and shooting them the finger for being damaging and unhelpful to people who they were supposed to be close to, rather than trying to actually be helpful and help them understand the problems and why they shouldn't be together or what have you. This might sound harsh, but if you're somebody who agrees with that reaction people have of instant scorn and disgust, then the show basically doesn't like you much at all and thinks your way of doing things is shitty and unproductive towards addressing actual problems with the relationship. That's legitimately the stance it takes and it doesn't try to hide it very much at all - it wants you to separate the existing taboo from your standpoint and try to understand the overarching question of "Are feelings all that matter when two people are in love?" and look at it from a more balanced perspective that focuses more on "what's wrong and what isn't wrong with it" instead of just "people will respond poorly so therefore it's bad."

ManabanMay 10, 2018 7:49 AM

May 10, 2018 7:11 AM

#235

Offline

Dec 2017

1527

CrustyRolls said:

Botan-Chan45 said:

Oh so your like every other commenter here. Nvm It's fucking retarded that this thread still exists.(Sora really? Don't they still fuck.)

It's not "fucking retarded" that this thread still exists, because people are allowed to disagree with you. And whether they fuck or not doesn't affect how well incest is handled in a show. They fuck in Koi Kaze too, by the way, and a lot of people agree it was handled in a mature and comfortable way.
It's ok for me to have the same opinion as others on this thread, it doesn't make your opinion more or less valid depending on how many people agree with you.
And yes, I still think Sora is a valid example because it shows how difficult and depressing it would be to be separated from your friends because of falling for your sibling, and Sora's

highlights that.
Why are you even looking at this thread if you just want to shit on the popular opinion?

Every opinion is popular. So that's why I shit in every thread.

Yeah right there is no way a doujin about vomit exists.
Good song https://soundcloud.com/yeungkakit33/op4-hekireki-last-alliance
Tsumino account is BigMaraIppo
Another Good Song Listen to テスト by mukami #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/mukami/77a
Ashita no Joe and Megalo box are disappointing anime.
My reviews:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Botan-Chan45/reviews
Best Naruto Op: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByCNZxOBVWM&list=RDByCNZxOBVWM&index=1
discord name: Chitoge Kirisaki#9564
https://discord.gg/nGKu6zx my discord server for plebs

May 10, 2018 7:36 AM

#236

nabuka

Offline

May 2008

95

its nice in anime
its disgusting irl
simple as that

and im sure the reason why a lot of people are into incest is the "forbidden/immoral" thing i mean its the same with murder isnt it? a lot of people love the "bad guy" character who has killed tons of people cause it's "hot" but would you call a murderer in real life hot? i dont think so and if you do you need help

May 10, 2018 7:40 AM

#237

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Jul 2018

564610

Lord_Sithis said:
Come on, give me a better "study" than this... thing.

Even if I gave you another study, you'd probably dismiss it due to ignorance. We're done discussing this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Botan-Chan45 said:
Oh so your like every other commenter here. Nvm It's fucking retarded that this thread still exists.(Sora really? Don't they still fuck.)

Why is it retarded this thread still exists? I'm not allowed to have an opinion?

May 10, 2018 7:43 AM

#238

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Jul 2018

564610

Arimias said:

Lord_Sithis said:
Come on, give me a better "study" than this... thing.

Even if I gave you another study, you'd probably dismiss it due to ignorance. We're done discussing this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wouldn't, but sure, have a nice day!

Btw, there's something called birth control. It's actually a very interesting thing. I kinda like it.

May 10, 2018 7:47 AM

#239

Offline

Jul 2018

564610

nabuka said:
a lot of people love the "bad guy" character who has killed tons of people cause it's "hot" but would you call a murderer in real life hot? i dont think so and if you do you need help

Huh? What are you talking about? What does murder have to do with the topic of incest? Those are two different subject matters.

May 10, 2018 7:53 AM

#240

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

Arimias said:

nabuka said:
a lot of people love the "bad guy" character who has killed tons of people cause it's "hot" but would you call a murderer in real life hot? i dont think so and if you do you need help

Huh? What are you talking about? What does murder have to do with the topic of incest? Those are two different subject matters.

It's questioning the idea of people approaching reality and fiction with the same mindset and set of morals and principles. It isn't just narrowed down to murder versus incest, it's just comparing another act that could be considered immoral and how people can love that in fiction yet the circumstances would probably change in reality. I don't see how it isn't related tbh, you can express why you view them in different lights if you don't agree with the comparison and such, as opposed to just ignoring the overhead idea being expressed in favor of a more literal interpretation.

ManabanMay 10, 2018 8:00 AM

May 10, 2018 8:05 AM

#241

Offline

Dec 2017

1527

Arimias said:

Lord_Sithis said:
Come on, give me a better "study" than this... thing.

Even if I gave you another study, you'd probably dismiss it due to ignorance. We're done discussing this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Botan-Chan45 said:
Oh so your like every other commenter here. Nvm It's fucking retarded that this thread still exists.(Sora really? Don't they still fuck.)

Why is it retarded this thread still exists? I'm not allowed to have an opinion?

No. It's retarded that this thread exists even though there is always a similar thread. Your opinion isn't retarded, just that this has been regurgitated every time.

Yeah right there is no way a doujin about vomit exists.
Good song https://soundcloud.com/yeungkakit33/op4-hekireki-last-alliance
Tsumino account is BigMaraIppo
Another Good Song Listen to テスト by mukami #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/mukami/77a
Ashita no Joe and Megalo box are disappointing anime.
My reviews:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Botan-Chan45/reviews
Best Naruto Op: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByCNZxOBVWM&list=RDByCNZxOBVWM&index=1
discord name: Chitoge Kirisaki#9564
https://discord.gg/nGKu6zx my discord server for plebs

May 10, 2018 8:24 AM

#242

GabrielB24

Offline

Jan 2016

125

Incest? Is every thread worth mentioning?

May 10, 2018 9:13 AM

#243

Alcoholicide

Offline

Feb 2010

34597

Who needs incest as long as there are other people's imoutos?
Being an imouto > being related.

Just some food for thought since this thread seems to be pretty much stuck and arguing in circles.

I probably regret this post by now.

May 10, 2018 9:59 AM

#244

Offline

Aug 2016

1601

TsukuyomiREKT said:
How's the weather up on your high horse?

I don't think you need to be on much of a high horse to say that incest is wrong.

Lord_Sithis said:
You do know homosexuality was seen as taboo and destructive by society right?

Well that depends on both the time period and culture you're looking at, but it's nowhere near as much of a universal trend as incest is. Depending on the time and place, homosexuality was perfectly acceptable within many societies. However, the same cannot be said for incest.

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 10, 2018 10:26 AM

#245

Arch-Degenerate

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Sep 2015

7676

Psyotic said:
Well that depends on both the time period and culture you're looking at, but it's nowhere near as much of a universal trend as incest is. Depending on the time and place, homosexuality was perfectly acceptable within many societies. However, the same cannot be said for incest.

Zoroastrians in Persia practiced quite a bit, and there's evidence that post Islamic-conquest that they allowed it to continue to a degree which heavily kind of suggests it wasn't just a pragmatic royalty thing given the general displacement of ruling society that comes alongside conquest, albeit at the same time xwedodah can be heavily debated in meaning and some opt to interpret it as something like marrying dead relatives and mostly a means as keeping accumulated wealth within the families, which was mostly attributed to their equivalent of nobility naturally but not necessarily exclusive to it. Zoroastrianism is also one of the few non-Abrahamic religions that very heavily forbade homosexuality and the like. It's not really something that history has universally forbade and made taboo and it's highly unlikely that there is anything of that nature through the various cultures that have risen and declined throughout history.

Ancient Egypt is another very strong example - while it's been known for a long time that pharoes had married several of their sisters and very often had children with them, the general consensus nowadays based on Roman census during their time ruling is that sibling marriages were an aspect that permeated pretty much every class and social structure of that society due to it being a fairly commonplace for husbands and wives to also be marked as having the same sets of parents and being siblings when it comes to where they were born to.

Greeks, kind of historical "weirdos" in these things and I'm pretty sure there are few ancient societies one could travel back to and view as being as degenerate of as much, also had it to a certain but lesser degree and eventually, like homosexuality and pedastry, it left their domain more or less, but it still existed for a good while and was generally more accepted than in most other societies. Leonidas I of Sparta was married to his niece and there's evidence that brother-sister relationships were permitted so long as they had different mothers, meaning half-sibling marriages were perfectly good to go and the issue was when the blood relation was in full swing. Ancient China would allow marriages between those who did not have the same last name, primarily between cousins and such. Those things suggest that it was somewhat taboo for pure-blood relationships in those societies, but not nearly to the same extent at which it could be ascribed by modern standards.

And thing is, all of those are very relevant cultures and societies from a historical standpoint, 4 of the most so by and large, and those are just the examples that I'm aware of. We're not talking about some isolated tribal pagans in Finland or the modern Baltic states somewhere such as that, where one sort of outlier society thought it was all perfectly fine and then coming it and trying to toss it as minor evidence to the contrary or anything. We're talking about pretty relevant societies, especially in their time periods and even today to some extent.

Like, pedophilia is another example of a taboo that, while being more known to being accepted in more ancient cultures than incestuous relationships - is highly forbidden in this day and age, and, from my impression at least, is considered to be far more egregious in current western society than an incestuous relationship would be. Pedastry in general took root in a number of socities to a pretty notable degree, from the Ancient Greeks to the Romans to the practice of shudō in Japan where it was treated as a cultural tradition and existed up until the Meiji restoration or so. On a surface level, if people haven't really read up on societies that had practiced these things, they wouldn't really know much and could just look at how, in a more globalized society, these elements are generally and very widespread to be a taboo and it's generally inconceivable to a lot of people that these things existed up until a couple of centuries ago at least, maybe even a few moreso.

But no, the assertion that incest has been a universal taboo or even really close enough to be considered in the discussion of being "universal" is outright false. Majority? Definitely. Large majority even? Yup. But that's a huge distinction to make between majority, or even a large majority, and universal, a distinction that should not be taken lightly in the context of discussing societal taboos and their prominence throughout history around the world. "Universal" is not the case whatsoever and there's evidence about ancient societies that practiced and permitted sibling relationships specifically, let alone more distant relationships like ones between cousins and what have you.

ManabanMay 10, 2018 10:41 AM

May 10, 2018 11:33 AM

#246

Offline

Aug 2016

1601

Manaban said:
But no, the assertion that incest has been a universal taboo or even really close enough to be considered in the discussion of being "universal" is outright false. Majority? Definitely. Large majority even? Yup. But that's a huge distinction to make between majority, or even a large majority, and universal, a distinction that should not be taken lightly in the context of discussing societal taboos and their prominence throughout history around the world. "Universal" is not the case whatsoever and there's evidence about ancient societies that practiced and permitted sibling relationships specifically, let alone more distant relationships like ones between cousins and what have you.

I was primarily referring to incestuous relationships between brother and sister or parent and child. Incestuous relationships between cousins seems to be far more common than relationships between people with close familial bonds. Even among groups like the Zoroastrians, relationships between brother and sisters was uncommon if not outright looked down upon. The only occurrence that I could find and that you brought up would be during the period of Roman occupation of Egypt. So if your argument is a pedantic one on the use of the term "universal" then sure. But I would respond that didn't use "universal" as an absolute term, rather comparatively "as universal" or "almost universal".

But given that, homosexuality is still far more prevalent than incest, especially close-kin incest, throughout history. So the argument that incest should be okay because the only reason it's wrong is society says it's wrong, and society said that homosexuality is wrong when it isn't, so incest must also not be wrong is still built upon a shaky comparison at best and seems to neglect the plethora of reasons as to why incest is such a common social taboo.

People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol

May 10, 2018 12:03 PM

#247

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Jul 2018

564610

steponmeazula said:
wixoss is one of my favorite animes but the incest was just....a big no. it also bothered me while watching yuru yuri, but at least this time it was used as comedy rather than anything serious.

i actually came into this thread thinking of mentioning wixoss, so i'm glad to see i'm not the only one.

i'm actually the opposite. i thought wixoss was horrible, but their take of incest in it was the best take on it i've seen in anime. they treated it as a taboo, something that people SHOULD be ashamed of, whereas in most anime they just look the other way.

May 10, 2018 2:32 PM

#248

TsukuyomiREKT

Offline

May 2015

5397

Psyotic said:

TsukuyomiREKT said:
How's the weather up on your high horse?

I don't think you need to be on much of a high horse to say that incest is wrong.

Lord_Sithis said:
You do know homosexuality was seen as taboo and destructive by society right?

Well that depends on both the time period and culture you're looking at, but it's nowhere near as much of a universal trend as incest is. Depending on the time and place, homosexuality was perfectly acceptable within many societies. However, the same cannot be said for incest.

You need to be on one to say that it's still bad even in fiction, and to call anyone who enjoys it in fiction a degenerate.

May 10, 2018 3:30 PM

#249