Anime Tourism

He's also an anime tourist, so I don't know why you would share his video on this topic.

@ktg hes doenst qualify as an anime tourist. Dont get me wrong, I dont like him either, but he aint one.

He's also an anime tourist, so I don't know why you would share his video on this topic.

Well color me intrigued, how so? 🤔

He's also an anime tourist, so I don't know why you would share his video on this topic.

@ktg Joey may be alot of things,most of which aren't good. But tourist is definitely not one of them.

@DigiCat Here's one of my previous comment.

@ktg Ok... now my question is, is the comment about "One Piece isn't political" in reference to One Piece's in-world politics or in reference to our real world politics?

literally who cares. "anime tourism" isn't real, it's just a term used by people who are upset that their supposed niche interest isn't as niche as they thought.

@DigiCat Technically both, but I - and he - referred to our real world politics.

@ktg Well if he was reffering to real world poilics... i'm gonna have to agree with him

While of course real world politics can influence that of the fictional world one is creating and said stories can even be used as a way to express one's views and be a sort of social commentary, i don't think classifying such works as "political" in the sense you're ferrering to would be accurate

To use an example i'm better versed in, Star Wars very obviously has politcs as one of it's central themes, and yes, there are scenarios that can be compared to ones in the real world, but the politics of the Star Wars galaxy is still not the politics of our countries on planet earth, hence it is not a political piece in the sense of taking sides on real world political issues, it is simply a story with it's own worldbuilding and naturally politics plays a part in that wolrdbuilding

@DigiCat Just say that you don't know what political means. We would have understood it easier.


It is accurate because the point of a fictional work is to tell a message. And this is true for every fictional work, even if it aimed towards kids. But while for kids you would work with simple messages like "friendship is good" or "don't hurt animals", for adult you would go with much more complex themes, like politics.
To be fair, you could make the argument that the importance of friendship is also political, because humans are social beings, so for a healthy life style, they would likely need to make some friends.


It literally is and George Lucas said this himself. Do you think you know it better what the intention was than the creator of Star Wars?
He literally stated that the evil Empire is the US and the rebels are the viet congs:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HDJyAapsLJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rmnO46iKrw

The reason why you create a fictional world to explore a political concept is because then the audience won't bring their prejudice. You cannot be racist against wookiees, because you don't know them, but if another race is racist against them, then the author could explore racism through these these fictional races and give you a message about racism.
So you are 100% wrong, because EVERY political concepts in these fictional worlds are real world political issues. For example, in one of One Piece's arcs the topic is universal healthcare, again that's a real world concept. You won't be able to create fictional politics when you try to model human behaviors and societies even if you do it in a fictional world, because otherwise the characters wouldn't feel like human beings and the audience wouldn't be able to connect to them.

I do know what political means

I also know there is a difference between real world politics and in-world politics


Like i said, yes, your story can have a message, but having a message that is influenced by politics is different than actually putting real world politics in your story

The only time i could see a story being political in the sense your saying is if it's one based in the real world and specifically about whatever issues are relevent to the time it's set in


And honestly, the fact you're comparing friendship to politics is making me think you are the one who doesn't know what politics means


Again, you do realize there is a difference between being inspired by real world politics and even expressing your views within that story vs making it about real world politics

Maybe listen to George Lucas's words more carefully


I am sorry, but that right there is doing nothing but prove your ignorance

Do you think humans were (some even still are) racist towards other humans who didn't look like them because they "knew them"?

What kind of logic is "you can't be racist towards X spiecies because you don't know them"?

The whole root of rascism is based on ignorance, on not knowing shit about other cultures

Just like one Japanese person said on the homie damian channel said "From a Japanese perspective, people who weren't raised in Japan (regardless of race) don't really understand Japanese culture and society, so they're all tourists."



So as it shows this tourism discourse is pointless because everyone are tourists at the end of the day.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QTggCJDQSc&t=493s

@DigiCat
You just described what a political show looks like and then claimed it wasn't political.

The in-world politics based on real world politics that's the point. You can understand the in-world political problem, because we have the same issues with our real world politics. In an anthropomorphic show you can understand the racism between 2 types of animal because structurally it's the same racism as we have in the real world.


This statement makes no sense. The point when the political problem exists in your fictional world, because every world is fictional, you won't have real world politics ever. It's like saying that you want to meet the real world Chewbacca and not the fictional world Chewbacca. There's no real world Chewbacca and there's no real world politics in a fictional world, because it's FICTIONAL. That's the point.

(One exception can be made for documentary.)


Every fictional world is based on the real world. That's the point of storytelling. You choose a rule or point of view of the real world and build a fictional world around it. You won't find a single fictional world that wasn't based on the real world.


Lol, I'm not comparing. I'm talking about one containing the other one. The word politics means - by definition - public life and that includes societal behavior as well, how you interact with others, e.g. friendship.


There's no difference. Even your story technically "happens" in our modern day and age, it's still fictional. There's no real world politics in a fictional world, you have fictional politics always and always about real world politics.


Done. He still says that I'm right and you are wrong.


No. I don't think that. It's factually true.
When someone asks a racist why he is racist against a certain group, why do they answer with a statement about that group?
- "They are stupider"
- "They are rapist"
- "They are thieves"

Yes, people who are racist think that they know that that certain group which would legitimate their hate towards them. Humans try to be logical so they come up with arguments that would rationalize their decision.

Just to prove my point, I can also support this with quotes:
"Yet racists believe that humans are grouped into distinct races with very similar abilities and behaviours that allow each group to be ranked against another. And a racist always believes that they are a member of the superior race"
https://theconversation.com/racism-defies-logic-so-dont-go-searching-for-any-45617
This pretty much proves my point. Racists think that they know that specific group and even their own group. That's why they can make this ranking.


The logic that supported by every research study.


Incorrect, it's based on misinterpreting KNOWN things. People learn from the media - or certain type of media - that there was a research that found out that the black people have lower IQ. So a racist person would use this knowledge to legitimate his hate. Therefore - as I said - racism comes from knowing thing.

Even the Nazis believed that they knew the Jews. That's how they legitimatized their own actions.
What you probably misinterpreted is that you think I also say that they understand what they know, but that's not true. Understanding and knowing things are 2 different things. Racist people know things that they can't understand.

People who use tourism unironically are not exactly anime aficionados either. What value do people who are not "tourists" and proclaims themselves as such bring to the community? What level of expertise do they profess to have that makes the community richer?



Almost every person who complains of "tourism" are those who have the same level of media literacy as Cinemasins or TheCriticalDrinker. Half of their watchlist is brainless isekai or ecchi yet they portend themselves as being the definitive, authoritative force on on anime. It is annoying to me that those who complain the most about tourism are those who make the least substantive content about anime. Often it is just young men in the 20s who do not know anything but want to imagine that their viewing of anime contributes to some greater, more meaningful conflict, but this is just projection.

They do not like anime, they use it as some political cudgel in some culture war that they fight in, against the "woke" boogeyman. Art to them is not something to be personally engaged with, but as escapism to be utilized in their war on reality.

@PeripheralVision
>brainless isekai and ecchi
>brainless
The argument of what exactly constitutes a tourist isn't really about content quality. It's that people claim nonsense such as "quality is objective" and then use that rationale to trash on people who like genres that they don't like.

Being a tourist inherently involves a high and mighty stance about media. And it's the reason why people who oppose it the most are fans of lowbrow content, relatively speaking. Mostly because lowbrow fans just want to have some fun if they like some piece of media. It has a good message? Great. It's not anything new or original, but it's still fun? Great again.

As for the woke part and representation, it is not a boogeyman but a real problem. Woke rests on the equity fallacy which is then being used to push stuff where it doesn't make a lick of sense. Like, why is Cleopatra depicted black in a series that claims to be a HISTORICALLY ACCURATE documentary? (Yes this actually happened, Netflix released it.) Most people don't care about black people or gays or whatnot, they just want the story to make sense contextually. And woke content regularly fails that criterion.

Ah so most fans who are using the tourist label, to identify people they don't like....cool.....good to know. You can like low brow media and still be very high and mighty. It's an attitude thing, not the kind of content you consume.

Sure maybe some people wish to stop you from simply enjoying things, most of the time I just find it's people shouting down individuals who say they feel icky watching something, or they find a work morally repulsive. That or the classic anime fan that thinks they need to "shock" newcomers to make them "true fans", as if you should introduce literature to someone by recommending a dark romance story, filled with rape and incest in it.

Pretty sure if an American animation company made a series like Wandering Son, American Conservatives would want that animation studio annihilated. There are real problems everywhere, however, right now it's mostly social conservatives who are fucking over anime. We have two bad dubs, from almost a decade ago versus conservative groups going after payment processors.... Specifically for anime, it's cons that are the problem right now.

Yeah and they got universal derision for it lol. Literally only black afro centrists (a lot of those guys are pretty socially conservative) were laying their necks out for that travesty. Netflix made it cause, Jada Smith was attached, and they paid for it in the end. It's that simple. You could easily make the inverse argument that Right Wing extremism is the problem by looking at Kanye West.

Nah, after talking to quite a few "anti woke" people they in fact very much do care. I used to have this naive view too, when I thought the right was finally getting their heads out of their asses, and focusing on what mattered in the mid/late 2010s. Sadly we are pretty much back to classical social conservatism, and most of it's proponents believe in that shit too, or at least picky/hypocritical in what they care about.

People might whine about using a both sides argument, however, it's literally both sides that are the problem. Radicalism and reactionaries are just spreading through political discourse, not just within the West but globally. Hey true in Japan, when looking at recent election. Lots of reasons for that, such as the world not being in a good state, however, people aren't going to like the utopian insanity of the alternatives either.

Even though the anti woke/culture warriors have turned into a parody, the pushback against racialism/wokeism was 100% necessary. And of course the war is never over, I just read yesterday a well-known university where I'm from was hosting recruiting events that discriminated against white students... leftists will not stop until they turn this country into 1970s Cambodia but the only reason they' suffered any setbacks was because the "conservatives" finally found some articulate voices (Mr Peterson before he went off the deep end, Douglas Murray, Peter Boghosian) who galvanized the silent majority to vote it OUT.

But since it was so lucrative to join the "culture war" it attracted a bunch of grifters to Youtube and other platforms- a bunch of fat NEET gamer neckbeards are NOT social leaders; and their stupidity is there for all to see so most of us walked away from it when we realized it was bullshit. I never considered myself part of it, I was just glad to see people were finally pushing back against what was plainly insanity.

And leftists are seething with rage- they thought they were going to have government support and free speech locked down forever.
The corporates realized with more than one public embarrassment (such as the Budlight thing, and 'Let's go Brandon') that they were only going to hurt their own profits if they kept listening to the "revolutionaries" (who were NOT buying their products anyway), so the revolution's death was inevitable.
But the revolutionaries will never give up "the cause". And the anti-woke won't shut up because there will clearly always be a reason for them to bitch. So let's let them destroy each other and we can sit back and laugh...

Well, regardless, how I may seem, I am not a progressive. I am a social liberal, and there is a difference there, in my mind at least.

Yeah, like there is really bad writing, and concepts present in left wing fiction. I just think a lot of the grifters exaggerate how much this has "consumed the West". I had a short anti SJW phase, I got over franchises I liked being butchered, and moved on, a lot of these people are incapable of doing that, or continue to play the culture war game for views.

@BilboBaggins365 Truth to be honest, it's not as bad as it was like three or four years ago. Went through the same thing, saw a ton of media get butchered. I do follow along but it's not like, I don't know, 2018 to 2022 when I actively followed anti-woke YouTubers. Just not in the story as much. Still, my stances still stand, that woke did create longlasting damage when it comes to certain themea that won't heal in the next 10 or 15 years at the very least, not to mention that this is all slowly moving towards an attempt at a woke comeback like @SuperAdventure said which is only certain to reignite the war.

I am just going to jump in here for a moment. lol

The idea that “anime tourists” (usually Western fans) can act like “colonizers” who reshape shit like the industry is kind of backwards, because Japanese creators overwhelmingly make Japanese anime for the Japanese domestic market. Fucking Western fandom doesn’t really dictate how shows are written, drawn, or culturally framed at all. At most, they affect localization or how a title is marketed abroad, not the creative process in Japan. lol

People like this can intrude into Western online fandom communities but they can also be completely ignored and easily brushed off, even if they are extremely vocal. Just like if anyone wanted to they can fucking ignore anything I had to say too, much like I can do the same to anyone else. lol

Sure I guess it can be annoying to some, specifically those who are complete snowflakes even over petty shit. But this is like complaining that suddenly commuting on a bus every day one suddenly realized most of the people taking the same ride became flooded with a bunch of noisy teenage brats. But if something is an open public space, much like a local bus ride, there is not much one can do other than bitch and whine about their once quite bus ride now being populated by people that annoy them. lol

I am just going to jump in here for a moment. lol

The idea that “anime tourists” (usually Western fans) can act like “colonizers” who reshape shit like the industry is kind of backwards, because Japanese creators overwhelmingly make Japanese anime for the Japanese domestic market. Fucking Western fandom doesn’t really dictate how shows are written, drawn, or culturally framed at all. At most, they affect localization or how a title is marketed abroad, not the creative process in Japan. lol

People like this can intrude into Western online fandom communities but they can also be completely ignored and easily brushed off, even if they are extremely vocal. Just like if anyone wanted to they can fucking ignore anything I had to say too, much like I can do the same to anyone else. lol

Sure I guess it can be annoying to some, specifically those who are complete snowflakes even over petty shit. But this is like complaining that suddenly commuting on a bus every day one suddenly realized most of the people taking the same ride became flooded with a bunch of noisy teenage brats. But if something is an open public space, much like a local bus ride, there is not much one can do other than bitch and whine about their once quite bus ride now being populated by people that annoy them. lol

Kind of like the disproportionate amount of topics about "tourists" instead of the almost non-existent threads on here about "anti-tourists"? lol