Thoughts on OEL manga, anime-influenced animation, "manga-styled comics"—animanga produced by non-Japanese markets for non-Japanese consumers?
Fario-P said: Zhongyush said: Refer to this reply/post I made earlierI don't mind the ping. But how did you know I am from South Asia? lol Anyways, may I know what this particular thread is all about? I saw you discussing stuffs regarding a bengali webtoon which apparently is something I find genuinely intriguing. And apologies for the late reply, I don't quite use My Anime list on a frequent basis haha though speaking of which... asho asho @akib10 @AdritaHiyori @Ay_Rakib @HoInKyOmA @SI_ZISHAN @zidanepiz @shahid-nusrat @Md_Anik_Hossain @H_kun @Shahriah @Alifziad Zhongyush said: Huh, did hear about Karmachakra before, but this is the first I've heard of Trio. Is it this one?India too have released a manga inspired comic named "Trio" which I believe is available on Amazon. And the creator apparently is from West Bengal. It will soon get it's anime adaptation as well in the January of 2025. You may give the trailer a watch. P.S I wish karmachakra was a success as it was solely based on Bengali culture representing our traditions.  That's right! This is what I was talking about apparently |
thislolibites said: Thank you for sharing such big news! Feel free to post a reply here whether it's an update to this or just your thoughts on this topic.YouTuber CoryxKenshin, known for his gaming content and long hiatuses, has just announced that he is releasing a new manga, “MONSTERS WE MAKE.” The video announcing his new manga only consists of an animated trailer by The Line Studio, the studio behind the music video “Humility” by “The Gorillaz” and the 2020 web series “Song Machine.” I don't know about you guys, but as a fan of CoryxKenshin myself, I can't wait to read this. There hasn't been much revealed about the story besides being set in the not so distant future. But it gives me the same kinda vibes as Teen Titans, plus the art for it is very stylistic. I'll make an update on this after Cory's return tomorrow. |
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| Like this one? Monsters we make.     https://monsterswemake.com/pages/about-us |
| HACKs! 🤢🤮 |
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
I think this video puts a lot of my thoughts into words.
Generally, I think a lot of modern pseudo-Anime looks aggressively bland.
Everything is trying to look like Avatar and only takes inspiration from the same 5 mainstream Anime.
Due to the landscape at the time, the authors usually had a far more varied set of influences and actually looked spot on at times.
Thinking about it, there's a serious lack of "Kawaii", whereas Modern Anime Is too "Kawaii"
Something older Manga/Anime influenced Comics/Cartoon was capable of getting just right.
OP presented an example with Peach Fuzz, Megatokyo, Teen Titans, Winx and Code Lyoko were already mentioned but Wakfu, despite being animated in flash with janky looking rigs, looks WAY more appealing than something like VOX Machina.
Generally, I think a lot of modern pseudo-Anime looks aggressively bland.
Everything is trying to look like Avatar and only takes inspiration from the same 5 mainstream Anime.
Due to the landscape at the time, the authors usually had a far more varied set of influences and actually looked spot on at times.
Thinking about it, there's a serious lack of "Kawaii", whereas Modern Anime Is too "Kawaii"
Something older Manga/Anime influenced Comics/Cartoon was capable of getting just right.
OP presented an example with Peach Fuzz, Megatokyo, Teen Titans, Winx and Code Lyoko were already mentioned but Wakfu, despite being animated in flash with janky looking rigs, looks WAY more appealing than something like VOX Machina.
| @AzafuseKingTora I agree. Also blame Netflix for calling everything "anime" and turning it into a marketing tactic for all adult cartoons. Now everyone thinks anime = for adults with blood, sex, swearing and a story cartoon = episodic, comedic for kids Anime becoming mainstream was a mistake. |
| HACKs! 🤢🤮 |
| Pretty good, even if it has its flaws. Like, even if Castlevania’s anime is very edgy emo, it does have its meaningful, funny, heartwarming, and beautiful moments. Not to mention, the art and acting is beautiful. I get they “reuse the same few animes” as inspirations, but all they know are what cartoons the animators watched as a kid, and not everyone knows super obscure stuff. Doesn’t help with the constant gatekeeping. If you were making a Western style cartoon, you, too, would only know the most popular cartoons. If you hate Western cartoons inspired by anime, I got news for you. We’re all influenced by each other. Every culture in the world is. Even Japanese culture has elements of Chinese and Indian culture. China through their kanji, etymology (learning Chinese actually makes Japanese easier, surprisingly) and India through Buddhism (which also influenced nearly all of Asia.) and curry (super popular Japanese food.) Even through their pop culture. Lolita was based on Rococo and Victorian periods (France, England and America), Visual Kei’s based on the goth subculture (most popular in England and America), Gyaru’s got influence from all over (even from European high fashion in Mode Gyaru and African American culture from B-gyaru). (I use African American to talk about Black people in the U.S. specifically.) Japan literally gave the world their media like cartoons, music, books and games, and now a bunch of Western boys are getting mad that other Western people are being inspired by them. That’s how the world works, and always has. Whether it’s pop culture or culture culture. It’s not like they’re not claiming that White Americans invented anime. Japan isn’t an isolationist country anymore, they’re open to the world. Now they’re acting like Japanese nationalists and as if they’re more Japanese than actual Japanese people despite living in Pleasantvile Country in Utah or something. American guy who like Japanese media: OH MY GOD JAPAN IS THE BEST I HATE AMERICA AND WESTERNERS ANYTHING ENGLISH IS BAD AND ANYTHING JAPANESE IS GOOD IF YOU LIKE WESTERN THINGS YOU’RE A TERRIBLE PERSON AND— Japanese guy in Japan who like American media: Yeah, Ariana Grande and Disney cartoons are pretty cool. 😀 |
Confetti112Dec 16, 2024 5:05 PM
| (°<°) <(KA-KAW KA-KAW!) |
Reply to Old_School_Akira
@AzafuseKingTora I agree. Also blame Netflix for calling everything "anime" and turning it into a marketing tactic for all adult cartoons. Now everyone thinks
anime = for adults with blood, sex, swearing and a story
cartoon = episodic, comedic for kids
Anime becoming mainstream was a mistake.
anime = for adults with blood, sex, swearing and a story
cartoon = episodic, comedic for kids
Anime becoming mainstream was a mistake.
Old_School_Akira said: I agree. Also blame Netflix for calling everything "anime" and turning it into a marketing tactic for all adult cartoons. Now everyone thinks Uh, Netflix was not the only one did this, Acura (yes, the Japanese car company) did the same thing with their Chiaki's Journey "anime" shorts, you know these: And guess what? These so called "anime" shorts from Acura you just watched, they weren't animated by a Japanese animation studio, the animation was done in the UK. So yeah, Netflix wasn't the only one that are doing this, Acura did this too. So even a Japanese company are willing to make an animation/anime and used a non-Japanese studio to create it and still called it an anime. But does it really matter, even the definition of anime become blurred, and I'll leave this video from Kenny Lauderdale about that here: Old_School_Akira said: Anime becoming mainstream was a mistake. I don't think it wasn't a mistake for me, it was going to become mainstream one way or another. Beside, if you kept it niche, then it would become not cool amongst people that don't watch anime, and there was a time when watching/viewing anime or even talking about anime amongst non-geeks/non-nerds were "nerdy" and not cool. That's what it was like pre-2018. |
mdo7 said: No, I don't know anyone who even really knows about the term "OEL manga", much less read any of them.Fario-P said: I am not sure why the backlash in general stopped, aside from your theories on Korean pop culture and productions such as Netflix's Castlevania garnering popularity and respect... though I guess when people started to learn more about OEL manga history and how a certain company treated these creators (honestly typing) rather poorly. So I take it that you never talked or spoke (or interview) with anyone that used to hate OEL manga, and ask them "why did you stopped hating OEL manga for? What title or stuff that made you change your view on OEL manga, and manhwa/webtoons, and manhua?" I don't think Tokyopop alone may have caused the backlash to stop, there was still backlash against OEL manga after Tokyopop's North American/US division temporary shut down in 2011 (I need to watch that documentary you linked to me). But I can say that the backlash against OEL manga stop somewhere around 2014/2015, I think around the time when webtoon started to gain major foothold in the US thanks to K-pop and K-drama's popularity, and at the same time, Viz Media's re-printing/re-publishing of Shotaro Ishinomori's Zelda: A Link to the Past comic/OEL manga which was first published in Nintendo Power in the early 1990's (at the time when it was published in Nintendo Power, anime and manga was super niche, and not mainstream like today) could've caused some OEL manga haters to did some research and realized OEL manga existed before the term was coined (like I described on my first post). So, that could be the reason, but as I said in my previous post, I'm not 100% definitive on why the backlash stop at that point. That's why I was hoping and wanted you to talk to people that used to hate OEL manga to ask them why did they stop hated OEL manga, and what made them change their view on OEL manga (that applies to manhwa/webtoon and manhua)? I'm the only person I know irl that is this passionate in discussing anime, manga, and other nerdy things to the point of distinguishing inspired works. I have no idea how I can find people to talk to about this aside from making a thread here. |
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Reply to Fario-P
mdo7 said:
So I take it that you never talked or spoke (or interview) with anyone that used to hate OEL manga, and ask them "why did you stopped hating OEL manga for? What title or stuff that made you change your view on OEL manga, and manhwa/webtoons, and manhua?" I don't think Tokyopop alone may have caused the backlash to stop, there was still backlash against OEL manga after Tokyopop's North American/US division temporary shut down in 2011 (I need to watch that documentary you linked to me). But I can say that the backlash against OEL manga stop somewhere around 2014/2015, I think around the time when webtoon started to gain major foothold in the US thanks to K-pop and K-drama's popularity, and at the same time, Viz Media's re-printing/re-publishing of Shotaro Ishinomori's Zelda: A Link to the Past comic/OEL manga which was first published in Nintendo Power in the early 1990's (at the time when it was published in Nintendo Power, anime and manga was super niche, and not mainstream like today) could've caused some OEL manga haters to did some research and realized OEL manga existed before the term was coined (like I described on my first post). So, that could be the reason, but as I said in my previous post, I'm not 100% definitive on why the backlash stop at that point.
That's why I was hoping and wanted you to talk to people that used to hate OEL manga to ask them why did they stop hated OEL manga, and what made them change their view on OEL manga (that applies to manhwa/webtoon and manhua)?
No, I don't know anyone who even really knows about the term "OEL manga", much less read any of them.Fario-P said:
I am not sure why the backlash in general stopped, aside from your theories on Korean pop culture and productions such as Netflix's Castlevania garnering popularity and respect... though I guess when people started to learn more about OEL manga history and how a certain company treated these creators (honestly typing) rather poorly.
I am not sure why the backlash in general stopped, aside from your theories on Korean pop culture and productions such as Netflix's Castlevania garnering popularity and respect... though I guess when people started to learn more about OEL manga history and how a certain company treated these creators (honestly typing) rather poorly.
So I take it that you never talked or spoke (or interview) with anyone that used to hate OEL manga, and ask them "why did you stopped hating OEL manga for? What title or stuff that made you change your view on OEL manga, and manhwa/webtoons, and manhua?" I don't think Tokyopop alone may have caused the backlash to stop, there was still backlash against OEL manga after Tokyopop's North American/US division temporary shut down in 2011 (I need to watch that documentary you linked to me). But I can say that the backlash against OEL manga stop somewhere around 2014/2015, I think around the time when webtoon started to gain major foothold in the US thanks to K-pop and K-drama's popularity, and at the same time, Viz Media's re-printing/re-publishing of Shotaro Ishinomori's Zelda: A Link to the Past comic/OEL manga which was first published in Nintendo Power in the early 1990's (at the time when it was published in Nintendo Power, anime and manga was super niche, and not mainstream like today) could've caused some OEL manga haters to did some research and realized OEL manga existed before the term was coined (like I described on my first post). So, that could be the reason, but as I said in my previous post, I'm not 100% definitive on why the backlash stop at that point.
That's why I was hoping and wanted you to talk to people that used to hate OEL manga to ask them why did they stop hated OEL manga, and what made them change their view on OEL manga (that applies to manhwa/webtoon and manhua)?
I'm the only person I know irl that is this passionate in discussing anime, manga, and other nerdy things to the point of distinguishing inspired works.
I have no idea how I can find people to talk to about this aside from making a thread here.
| @Fario-P Well, I'm sorry I've asked you, that's unfortunate. I would've liked to know how and what made those haters change their view. I only know 3 theories so far (as I mentioned in my 1st post on this thread). |
Reply to mdo7
@Fario-P Well, I'm sorry I've asked you, that's unfortunate. I would've liked to know how and what made those haters change their view. I only know 3 theories so far (as I mentioned in my 1st post on this thread).
| Hey, it's okay @mdo7, I would've liked to know too but idk many people... actually while I'm still tagging people into here... @Faust721 @Megadedhed @Brand @yakusoku @crystal_yuy @SetsukoHara @Lambtron @IZUMI64 Hope you don't mind the tags... Are you still uninterested in OEL manga? Why or why not? Feel free to share your thoughts on the question, or on the original thread topic on anime/manga inspired works as a whole! |
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Reply to thislolibites
@Fario-P Hi, thank you for quoting my post. I was a little put down about updating the post(I have now, though) due to some anime “fans” who don't wanna give it a chance or being nitpicky about what makes it manga. But thank you for the encourgement, I updated the original post with Cory's video discussing his manga. I highly recommend everyone watches the video, because I believe everyone should see how much thought and work Cory went into making this.
| You're welcome @thislolibites, feel free to discuss about it with @Old_School_Akira in this thread, it fits here. Have you checked out any other anime/manga inspired works (e.g. Avatar, Teen Titans, W.I.T.C.H., Castlevania, Wakfu, etc.)? |
|
So I noticed this Spanish book series for children earlier this year... the covers are so cute and sparkly! Looks like Rainbow Magic but for Spanish weeb kids lol, would love to read Reino Arcoíris sometime if I study the language again |
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| There is one more thing I forgot to mentioned on my first post @Fario-P: RWBY You remember in 2014 when it was announced from Warner Bros Japan that RWBY will get a Japanese release and a dub? In 2015, the series got dubbed in Japanese, and it led to RWBY getting an anime adaptation titled Ice Queendom. I want to note that before RWBY franchise got a Japanese release/dub, people who criticized OEL manga and anime-influenced western animation also went after RWBY even though the series/franchise got not only popular amongst anime fans in the US, but it also got popular in Japan even before it got dubbed in Japanese and a anime adaptation. So it's possible RWBY getting a Japanese release/dub and a anime adaptation probably stopped the backlash toward anime-influenced animation. The Japanese dub of RWBY happened in 2015, almost around the same time when OEL manga backlash in the US just stopped. So it's RWBY's Japanese popularity, and Netflix's Castlevania that probably caused the backlash toward anime-influenced western animation to just stopped suddenly. But again as I said, I'm not 100% sure. But if you read the thread on the 2014 ANN article about RWBY going to Japan, you can see how intense the debate about anime-influenced western animation get on there. There was still animosity and backlash toward anime-influenced animation and also OEL manga. In 2015, that just stopped. Yes, you can also cite the popularity of K-pop and K-drama and webtoons/manhwa that might have remove most or all of the vitriol backlash toward OEL manga and anime-influenced animation, but I'm not 100% definitive. But RWBY getting a Japanese release may have also played a role in that one. |
Reply to Fario-P
So I noticed this Spanish book series for children earlier this year... the covers are so cute and sparkly!
Looks like Rainbow Magic but for Spanish weeb kids lol, would love to read Reino Arcoíris sometime if I study the language again
Looks like Rainbow Magic but for Spanish weeb kids lol, would love to read Reino Arcoíris sometime if I study the language again
| @Fario-P Never heard of Rainbow Magic, but the picture you shared gives me the vibes of a certain Japanese series. https://myanimelist.net/anime/4651 I wonder if this anime was ever translated into Spanish? |
| その目だれの目？ |
Fario-P said: I think anyone can easily see how OEL manga and its ilk are attempts to capitalize on the trend anime's popularity has made. Extremely apt wording. This is very staunchly how I felt for awhile, and still do regarding people changing their voice as a writer or natural style of writing to grift off the popularity of anime/manga. However, I've come to realize a lot of my (and assumedly many others') strife comes from the nomenclature; manga is exclusively Japanese, while comics are almost always English, etc... These things have been identified and laid out as is for so long that we take it for granted. Now that the intersectionality of artistic culture is just the default for many, I think the terminology for comics of any variety will slowly continue to evolve and become more decipherable to a wider audience. Really interesting point of discussion and definitely an area of work I should look into more. Thanks for starting the board! |
Reply to Alifziad
why am i mentioned and what's going down here?
| Hello @Alifziad! Sorry, I thought you might want to share with me what the anime community/preferences in Bangladesh is like. As for how I found you, refer to this reply. Sorry, hope you didn't mind |
|
Reply to PlasticRobot
Fario-P said:
I think anyone can easily see how OEL manga and its ilk are attempts to capitalize on the trend anime's popularity has made.
I think anyone can easily see how OEL manga and its ilk are attempts to capitalize on the trend anime's popularity has made.
Extremely apt wording. This is very staunchly how I felt for awhile, and still do regarding people changing their voice as a writer or natural style of writing to grift off the popularity of anime/manga. However, I've come to realize a lot of my (and assumedly many others') strife comes from the nomenclature; manga is exclusively Japanese, while comics are almost always English, etc... These things have been identified and laid out as is for so long that we take it for granted. Now that the intersectionality of artistic culture is just the default for many, I think the terminology for comics of any variety will slowly continue to evolve and become more decipherable to a wider audience.
Really interesting point of discussion and definitely an area of work I should look into more. Thanks for starting the board!
| You are welcome @PlasticRobot, thank you for putting your two cents in here! Yeah, at a certain point it's pretty pointless to just shit on something for copying others. These artists are probably still putting their heart and soul into these works, and use anime style because they got used to drawing that way over time. I know I can relate to that personally. Besides, we all borrow from each other; some say that anime is becoming more Westernized when it's actually more arguable that it's always been like that, especially when artists like Tezuka admitted to being inspired by Disney films, hence his trademark large eye drawing style. Oh, and are there any more Desi users wanna spread their two cents on anime-inspired works or what being an anime fan over there is like? I am curious especially since I don't live there despite being diaspora, hope you don't mind~ @Samiya_Rahman @not_Biskylover @Tahseen_Noor @Risti4040 @zillgamyang @_Rafid_ @Sunisunimuriken @Istiyak_Shakkhor @master_shifu @uragiri_n @_shirayuri_ @hassankamrul1593 @lemonflick77 @Himel_713 @Paksh @Ifad_Sadman @nazeefarafa188 oh yeah what the hell @Scordolo I'm sorry I forgot to ask you this kind of question at all, would make sense |
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| Just a little heads up @Fario-P, I've just created a topic thread on ANN's manga section on hoping to find out why did the backlash and hostilities toward OEL manga just stopped. Hopefully, I can get some better information and maybe get some testimonials from a former OEL manga haters (assuming they're on ANN) that can help me understand what caused those haters to just stop and changed their views. |
Reply to mdo7
Just a little heads up @Fario-P, I've just created a topic thread on ANN's manga section on hoping to find out why did the backlash and hostilities toward OEL manga just stopped. Hopefully, I can get some better information and maybe get some testimonials from a former OEL manga haters (assuming they're on ANN) that can help me understand what caused those haters to just stop and changed their views.
| Thanks for letting me know @mdo7! Looks like you got some good engagement there. Though on the topic of criticism, I found a constructive video by a fellow MAL user @Punloid: |
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Fario-P said: Looks like you got some good engagement there. Unfortunately, I'm not getting that much engagement other then the 2 ANN users responding back to me on that. I even asked folks at Anilist if anyone on there were former OEL haters, and so far, no responses from there too. I even asked and reiterate it again, and still no responses @Fario-P. So as of this post, nobody can give me a good definitive reasons or why they stopped hating on OEL manga. I don't put my hope up for all my post and topics on OEL manga backlash and why it stopped to get any more responses. I mean for me and you, this is still a mystery, although we both agreed on the role of Korean webtoons/manhwa thanks to anime, and live-action K-drama adaptations for the reason why manhwas/webtoons stopped getting backlash which could've led to OEL manga backlash vitriols getting greatly reduced. But I feel like that's not the only reason and probably not definitive. |
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