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Nov 16, 2023 5:03 PM
#1
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Jul 2018
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I've been noticing that a lot of people are complaining about the "non sense" of Frieren living a long life and yet don’t understand the emotions of others, or, neater, "try to know" the people that shes close to.


I identify a lot with Frieren, and it’s kinda pissing me off that people think that everyone has to know how to deal with people the same as they do.
But anyway,will be any other elf in the anime? I'm a little bit concerned if it's a characteristic of elfs in general or if she's really neurodivergent or something.

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Nov 16, 2023 5:11 PM
#2
lagom
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if she is human then yes she got autism but she is an elf a totally different species so human diagnosis does not apply to her
Nov 16, 2023 5:11 PM
#3
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I think she's just an old lady that doesn't have much emotion because of the fact that she's an elf
Nov 16, 2023 5:15 PM
#4
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Because she is an elf I would have to say no but because she is essentially a human More or less I feel that yes
Nov 16, 2023 5:22 PM
#5

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Nunca viu uma kuudere antes?
Fora que nem humana ela é, mas mesmo se fosse, personagem humano com essa personalidade é o que mais tem em anime.
Nov 16, 2023 5:23 PM
#6
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No she’s an elf and like the anime suggest time works differently to her the whole premise is her making up for it
Nov 16, 2023 5:27 PM
#7
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I dont think those traces even in humans HAVE to mean autism or neurodivergence
being alone, lazy, introvert, bot knowing how to socialize, not understanding or empathizing with others amd not wanting to, not bothering with some things that look super important and not having regularized emotions to transmit are not traits exclusive to someone with autism.
ofc there are lvl to it but autism is more related to how a person perceives the world and how the reality is weirdly diferent for them than to us despite being the same.
autism its more of an error that happens during development and its beyond the persons control, but some ppl chose to have those disfunctional behaviours willingly and have control of it, its just the personality they found. I think its just wrong allways getting to the conclusion that someone has to have X or Y because they decide to act a certain way. Its like when you see an adult women going back and forth frenetically on the bus ehile sitting and you assume she has ADHD when shes rly just lost in tought or felt like doing that.

that out of the way this is anime and shes an elf who lived 1000 yrs, depending on the show 8000 yrs for an elf its middle aged, what for us is "im bored and tired, tomorrow ima sleep till 11am" for her its taking a 3 weeks break of her just doing nothing
Nov 16, 2023 5:30 PM
#8
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She is a regular elf. She metions elves are that way.
Nov 16, 2023 5:41 PM
#9

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I don't know. I know that she is cute and that my heart goes doki doki

Nov 16, 2023 5:51 PM
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561867
Reply to Alex_the_reaper
I dont think those traces even in humans HAVE to mean autism or neurodivergence
being alone, lazy, introvert, bot knowing how to socialize, not understanding or empathizing with others amd not wanting to, not bothering with some things that look super important and not having regularized emotions to transmit are not traits exclusive to someone with autism.
ofc there are lvl to it but autism is more related to how a person perceives the world and how the reality is weirdly diferent for them than to us despite being the same.
autism its more of an error that happens during development and its beyond the persons control, but some ppl chose to have those disfunctional behaviours willingly and have control of it, its just the personality they found. I think its just wrong allways getting to the conclusion that someone has to have X or Y because they decide to act a certain way. Its like when you see an adult women going back and forth frenetically on the bus ehile sitting and you assume she has ADHD when shes rly just lost in tought or felt like doing that.

that out of the way this is anime and shes an elf who lived 1000 yrs, depending on the show 8000 yrs for an elf its middle aged, what for us is "im bored and tired, tomorrow ima sleep till 11am" for her its taking a 3 weeks break of her just doing nothing
@Alex_the_reaper

I agree that those traces dont mean she has something or not, but most of the things she does are normally used to help diagnose irl.
And it looks like she tries to understand and know others but is difficult or doesnt really understand how it works; maybe because shes an elf who has lived so much -yes
One of the reasons I posted this is because a lot of people are dropping the anime because they think she's stupid for doing things that she doesnt really seem to have control over? - but those things are really relatable irl for neurodivergent people, yk?

btw, I love her, and I want to see other elves compare her behavior in the anime!
Nov 16, 2023 5:55 PM
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It’s been clearly shown by dialogue from Frieren herself that elves are dying out as a species due to their indifference to each other, and she has only met a few other elves in her entire life. Seems emotional detachment is a normal state for elves generally, so I wouldn’t expect one to be attached to a human any more than we would get to a hamster. But it seems she is slowly beginning to value company, so maybe the wisdom gained from age is slower to manifest than for humans, but with thousands more years to live, who knows?
Nov 16, 2023 6:01 PM
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Reply to ShadowUnown
Nunca viu uma kuudere antes?
Fora que nem humana ela é, mas mesmo se fosse, personagem humano com essa personalidade é o que mais tem em anime.
@ShadowUnown
Ela até poderia ser interpretada como uma kuudere, mas não se encaixa mt bem. O ponto dela no anime é que não necessariamente sente as coisas ou pelo menos não sabe interpretar elas. O anime é sobre o problema dela em entender e interagir com as pessoas, o que também acaba nos mostrando como as pessoas se sentem lidando com ela.
Kuudere são aquelas garotas que "escondem" seus sentimentos a partir das emoções "frias" delas, o que não é o caso da Freiren.
Nov 16, 2023 6:12 PM

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i don't think they have the same standards
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Nov 16, 2023 6:32 PM

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The race of elves in all media is a bunch of mentally "special" creatures (if diagnosed as humans).

Notice that.
Nov 16, 2023 6:35 PM
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fucking loled
10/10 title
Nov 16, 2023 7:41 PM
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Lanyaners said:
I've been noticing that a lot of people are complaining about the "non sense" of Frieren living a long life and yet don’t understand the emotions of others, or, neater, "try to know" the people that shes close to.


I identify a lot with Frieren, and it’s kinda pissing me off that people think that everyone has to know how to deal with people the same as they do.
But anyway,will be any other elf in the anime? I'm a little bit concerned if it's a characteristic of elfs in general or if she's really neurodivergent or something.


I mean she’s an old lady whose seen a ton of people die in her life. You’ll become desensitized to it. She ain’t autistic
Nov 16, 2023 8:09 PM
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@oooVasAooo omg yessss I totally agree!!!
Frieren already told us that elves are different, but we cant presume they are different the way she is, I'm wishing that we could see other elves tho, also want to observe the reactions of the other characters.
Nov 16, 2023 9:48 PM
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You can look at this question two ways. From a lore perspective we can’t know unless we meet more elves in the show (or manga I don’t know I haven’t read it). However, the author may have written her character with these characteristics in mind and I personally believe that is the more interesting perspective.
Nov 16, 2023 10:13 PM
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TLDR: while elves would be more like Frieren than humans, I think Frieren's distantness is tied more to the fate of the elves and a sense of isolation

Because elves live for millenia, the way they see things, they way they understand and interact with the world is completely different to ours, but I believe the reason Frieren seems so distant and disassociated from the world is due to the elves' natural perception of everything being fleeting being exacerbated by whatever may have happened to the elves. Tbh, it could be that the character is meant to have some kind of autism, but it could also be some kind emotional imbalance or trauma, or even a combination of the above. It's only brushed upon, but it seems something befell them and now there are far fewer elves than there should be. I feel like the elves used to be more invested in the world before whatever it was that happened, but to a race that measures the amount of time needed for even simple tasks in months or even years without batting an eyelid, the rest of the world would be ephemeral. Imagine it for a second, and then imagine that you are an elf within that world. Without any other elves there, you'd be an anomaly, a preserved remnant of the past, unmoving in the maelstrom of life; without other elves there, it would probably start feeling like you've been frozen in time, or like the world is trying to leave you behind. Even with humans, there's a struggle to better connect because their natures are almost opposites; elves have all the time to pursue whatever interests them even a little, while humans have barely a fraction of that to achieve their dreams. I would imagine that, to an elf, an entire human lifetime would barely be enough to befriend someone
iamapondNov 16, 2023 10:53 PM
Nov 16, 2023 10:48 PM
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When judged on a human scale, yes
Nov 16, 2023 10:56 PM
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no she's really really really really old like really old
Nov 16, 2023 11:02 PM
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Why don't we wait and watch peacefully. People expect too much from an anime, that's the reason it makes those people trashy minded.
Nov 16, 2023 11:06 PM
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oooVasAooo said:
Yes, I would say she is somewhat emotionally autistic, assuming the anime treats Elves as having similar modes of intelligence to Humans. We have seen emotions come out of her a few times in odd ways. i.e. Crying at the funeral when she realizes she never knew someone or getting peeved lightly when she thinks she has been tricked. That said, I connect heavily with her emotionally distant nature. people have often told me that they cannot tell what I am thinking based on my limited reactions to stimuli. I think it would be a huge strike against the series if we find out that all elves act like her. It would practically ruin the narrative and make her wholly uninteresting. The big draw for me is watching how she interacts with others from a unique angle.

Is emotion coming out as crying at a funeral considered odd? And even if all elves (what remains of them) are like her, I think the perspective/angle is still uniquely her's.

If the art IS placing elves as an analog with real world, autistic humans, couldn't the narrative not be ruined and Frieren remain just as interesting?
Couldn't you still remain drawn to watching how one person with autism reacts to others from their unique angle?
People with autism aren't monolithic and the path they walk though life is just as unique as everyone else's. Also, depending on where they are, much like the elves, a person with autism could go a long time without meeting another with autism which would even preserve the uniqueness of that particular attribute to the character throughout their story.

Of course, you should be drawn to whatever aspect of the story and characterization draws you! It just feels as though there's still space to consider the possibility of elves representing a population with such common traits without that being an outright strike against the show.

@Lanyaners would it be bad if elves represented a group of neurodivergent people?
LucenProjectNov 16, 2023 11:10 PM
Nov 16, 2023 11:06 PM
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I personally don't think she was meant to be an autistic character. Having said that, it doesn't mean she was meant to not have autism, if that makes sense. I don't think it matters too much, because the character wasn't written to be explicitly mentally and emotionally sound. To be completely honest, I think it's better if it's not made explicitly clear. As you said, a lot of people think that Frieren being unable to understand emotions and humans after living so long is "nonsense"; I feel like if she was confirmed to be an autistic character, people would be like "oh so that's why she's so weird" which is wrong for several reasons. For one, there's many different types of autism, and they have different traits, as far as I know. Secondly, being detached is not a trait that's exclusive to autism, there are several mental illnesses, including depression, which can cause it. Finally, she is NOT HUMAN; at a rough guess, she's about 1200-1500 years old, which is, by all appearances, the elven equivalent of her 20s. This is a woman to whom taking 4 years to decipher an ancient text is a quick favour. This way, people just have to accept that that's how she is without trying to blame it on a condition
Nov 16, 2023 11:09 PM

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Look OP, just cause you're young, and just now learned a new word, does not mean a character you think you like cause you've seen a fan arts of it, is the same as that word you presume know what it means.

You seem like a person who identifies with a lot of things over the week.
Nov 16, 2023 11:18 PM
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Her whole "world" destroyed by demons, then experiencing losing someone dear to her by aging for the first time.
She devoted herself to kill demons and honor her master, that she forget how important her party is and how fragile life actually.
Elf never have a strong desire to make relationship to begin with, shes one of the greatest mage in the world so she can handle things on her own.

For me thats already explain alot about Frieren's character.
Nov 16, 2023 11:20 PM
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Lanyaners said:
@Alex_the_reaper

I agree that those traces dont mean she has something or not, but most of the things she does are normally used to help diagnose irl.
And it looks like she tries to understand and know others but is difficult or doesnt really understand how it works; maybe because shes an elf who has lived so much -yes
One of the reasons I posted this is because a lot of people are dropping the anime because they think she's stupid for doing things that she doesnt really seem to have control over? - but those things are really relatable irl for neurodivergent people, yk?

btw, I love her, and I want to see other elves compare her behavior in the anime!

she ia trying to understand humans but only after 1000 years because the death of himmel worked as a trigger for her feelings, up until that point she never considered human emotions worth studying, for humans its like "Why am i even gonna bother study a very complex machine if its gonna break down in just a few days". As the priest said she changed more in those 50 yrs of journey than the other 950 she lived, that acted like a switch in her and she now knows the value of her time fluctuates alot depending on what she decides to do with it. She explains Elves dont feel very strong emotions and dont feel the biological needs to stuck together or multiply but her life experiences (her master and himmel death for example) kinda stuck with her and drifted her away from the norm.
and about ppl dropping the show, the show still has 9 of rating, ppl who dropped are clearly not open to a slighly diferent gender and are more focused on shonen like shows and power trips XD
Nov 16, 2023 11:23 PM
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Her whole "world" destroyed by demons, then experiencing losing someone dear to her by aging for the first time.
She devoted herself to kill demons and honor her master, that she forget how important her party is and how fragile life actually.
Elf never have a strong desire to make relationship to begin with, shes one of the greatest mage in the world so she can handle things on her own.

For me thats already explain alot about Frieren's character, which is not an autistic one.

Other elves shown later in this series show a similar mindset like Frieren but got different approach and actual goals.
Nov 17, 2023 12:50 AM
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Reply to LucenProject
oooVasAooo said:
Yes, I would say she is somewhat emotionally autistic, assuming the anime treats Elves as having similar modes of intelligence to Humans. We have seen emotions come out of her a few times in odd ways. i.e. Crying at the funeral when she realizes she never knew someone or getting peeved lightly when she thinks she has been tricked. That said, I connect heavily with her emotionally distant nature. people have often told me that they cannot tell what I am thinking based on my limited reactions to stimuli. I think it would be a huge strike against the series if we find out that all elves act like her. It would practically ruin the narrative and make her wholly uninteresting. The big draw for me is watching how she interacts with others from a unique angle.

Is emotion coming out as crying at a funeral considered odd? And even if all elves (what remains of them) are like her, I think the perspective/angle is still uniquely her's.

If the art IS placing elves as an analog with real world, autistic humans, couldn't the narrative not be ruined and Frieren remain just as interesting?
Couldn't you still remain drawn to watching how one person with autism reacts to others from their unique angle?
People with autism aren't monolithic and the path they walk though life is just as unique as everyone else's. Also, depending on where they are, much like the elves, a person with autism could go a long time without meeting another with autism which would even preserve the uniqueness of that particular attribute to the character throughout their story.

Of course, you should be drawn to whatever aspect of the story and characterization draws you! It just feels as though there's still space to consider the possibility of elves representing a population with such common traits without that being an outright strike against the show.

@Lanyaners would it be bad if elves represented a group of neurodivergent people?
@LucenProject
I think it will get more difficult to work without being problematic; actually, I was afraid that other elves wouldnt have their own individuality

The way Sousou no Frieren deals with different races is a little... awkward (I'm thinking abt the way the demons were introduced in the last few episodes) - but they still have the chance to work a little more in this "humanity" on others that are not humans.

Anyway, I hope that the author deals with those things in a good way!
And ty for helping me think more abt this! I'm enjoying the anime so far.
Nov 17, 2023 2:12 AM
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Why you love for 1,000 years and repeatedly loose everyone you know and come to care about you'd become numb to feelings too.
Nov 17, 2023 3:35 AM

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No, but this thread definitely is. Please take your ridiculous Twitter arguments back to Twitter.
Nov 17, 2023 3:54 AM

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It is likely because she lived most of her life in seclusion away from humans patiently setting up for the goal to eliminate demons, and even after she started being around humans because her long life her sense of time being distorted she would often step away from them for very long periods while doing something else so humans are still fairly alien to her. Plus with a long life you do see her more indifferent nature was something that developed over time from decrease in novelty like how she described her feelings for magic was shown to have changed. Though with her being the only elf we have seen it is hard to tell how much is elf and how much is Frieren. Her always seeking unusual spells is possibly a kind of novelty chasing where she is trying to keep interest in magic.
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Nov 17, 2023 9:36 AM
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She doesn’t really understand most emotions because she’s lived so long that at one point, she just didn’t care about human lives when to her, they only last like a week. She doesn’t want to get invested in somebody’s life only for them to die shortly after so she never really put herself out there to make friends and understand them.
The show is about how she is trying to make a change in her life to get to know the people around her, even if they die quickly.
Nov 17, 2023 1:12 PM
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Honestly, as an autistic person myself, I never understood this question if people are autistic or not. Obviously there are some character traits that are frequent for autistic people, but there can always be people without autism who share these character traits, aswell as a lot of autistic people who dont have these traits or "grow out" of them
Nov 17, 2023 1:43 PM

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Leave it to kids these days to label anyone who doesn't act like the cool kids as autistic.
Nov 17, 2023 1:49 PM

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indifferent ≠ autistic
*kappa*
Nov 17, 2023 1:50 PM
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Either the author thinks people with autism give off "having lived for thousands of years" vibes and made it part of their world building for elves to be like that, or she has it, yes.
Personally, I lean towards a very big spoon of: Both, actually.
Its frankly impressive how much it gets worked into nearly every conversation, but I won't waste the effort of listing a ton of examples, mostly because I largely expect this to be read either by hateful weirdos, or people that already agree with me anyway (yes, youre free to respectfully disagree too, I see you) , but safe to say she's one of the most accurately portrayed autistic characters in the medium

Nov 17, 2023 1:53 PM

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Most anime characters in general act like they are on the spectrum for the sake of entertainment.
Nov 17, 2023 8:20 PM
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Could be an option be autistic but Frieren also is too powerful, so more power she gets less interest in anything.
Nov 17, 2023 8:21 PM
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Could be an option be autistic but Frieren also is too powerful, so more power she gets less interest in anything
Nov 17, 2023 8:21 PM
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Could be an option be autistic but Frieren also is too powerful, so more power she gets less interest in anything.
Nov 17, 2023 8:22 PM
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Could be an option be autistic but Frieren also is too powerful, so more power she gets less interest in anything
Nov 17, 2023 9:33 PM
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Reply to removed-user
@LucenProject
I think it will get more difficult to work without being problematic; actually, I was afraid that other elves wouldnt have their own individuality

The way Sousou no Frieren deals with different races is a little... awkward (I'm thinking abt the way the demons were introduced in the last few episodes) - but they still have the chance to work a little more in this "humanity" on others that are not humans.

Anyway, I hope that the author deals with those things in a good way!
And ty for helping me think more abt this! I'm enjoying the anime so far.
@Lanyaners Whoops, we found another demon sympathizer, boys. Bring the torches.
Nov 17, 2023 10:36 PM
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May 2012
1107
I don't think so. She did not show any important autistic traits till episode 11. Her being apathetic, a hermit and with anhedonia could be schizoid personality disorder traits. She doesn't care about relations and doesn't really care about the world she does pursuit little goals that can be considered hobbies but it is not really clear if she does enjoy it at all and if yes how much she does.
Her troubles identifying what did really feel towards Himmels and not being really aware of her emotions could be alexithymia. Alexithymia is common among autism and schizoid patients but being the only trait alone isn't enough. We could say Violet Evergarden has alexithymia and alexithymia only so it can't be considered autistic or schizoid.
The artist did try to explain Frieren's coldness by her long long long life, is common that the longer you live the more apathetic you'll supposed to turn out. After thousands years you lose enthusiasm for everything because you have seen everything, you know everything, you have experienced everything. Love, death, wealth, poverty, power, disease, war, injustice, kingdoms, castles, taverns you met all kinds of people, you have been nobody you have been famous over and over. Her main companions are the magic, grimoires, the staff, herself and her memories. She lives by traveling and studying, she lives in a peaceful and quiet way. She is very reserved and lives like someone who is ready to leave this world because she has already seen it all and done everything that could be done. What else could she do? perhaps take on apprentices and pass on all her knowledge to future generations. She acts like a guardian who only intervenes when strictly necessary in maintaining some sort of balance.
So is she schizoid? no. Her character could be inspired by the schizoid personality disorder? definitely yes.
Nov 18, 2023 12:27 AM
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Jul 2018
561867
Reply to fast2611
Either the author thinks people with autism give off "having lived for thousands of years" vibes and made it part of their world building for elves to be like that, or she has it, yes.
Personally, I lean towards a very big spoon of: Both, actually.
Its frankly impressive how much it gets worked into nearly every conversation, but I won't waste the effort of listing a ton of examples, mostly because I largely expect this to be read either by hateful weirdos, or people that already agree with me anyway (yes, youre free to respectfully disagree too, I see you) , but safe to say she's one of the most accurately portrayed autistic characters in the medium

@fast2611 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES
Nov 18, 2023 1:13 AM
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Jul 2023
293
100% yes I love this
Nov 18, 2023 4:48 AM
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Mar 2020
332
It's honestly fascinating how much people will engage in metal gymnastics to minimize the amount of out groups present in the media they watch.
I've experienced it myself, having watched Kill la kill before realizing... certain things about myself.
I might even have typed out one or two very similar messages to the ones here about Mako and Ryuuko somewhere and certainly spelled it out in my head, and no doubt would have done the same watching Mo Dao Zu Shi if it had already aired by then.
Talking aside the political hate-mongering, the amount of willful blindness and handwaving away in this thread is a pretty good case study of psychology.
Nov 18, 2023 1:12 PM
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Aug 2014
5
Truly amazing how many people in this thread have yet to discover the concept of allegory or metaphor.

This entire series is about living with autism and communicating to the audience what that experience is like through the lens of an elf living among humans.

The series could not possibly be clearer about this, everything from Frieren's hyperfixation on magic (particularly eclectic magics other people have no interest in), which Fern notes is not the same as her interest in magic. Fern comments about Frieren's difficulty picking up on social cues, etc.

This series is about autism. I speak Japanese so I am watching this series in Japanese, so maybe that is where the disconnect is, y'all must either be reading a bad translation or have zero media literacy.
Nov 18, 2023 2:45 PM

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Nov 2013
7439
Here's a better question: "Why do you want her to be autistic?"

Reminded me of "omg, she's just like me" spam when "Bocchi the Rock" aired.

Anyways, we can't know for sure unless we meet other elves.

it’s kinda pissing me off that people think that everyone has to know how to deal with people the same as they do.
To elves humans must be like toddlers who know hardly anything. It can be frustrating to have to deal with them (always new faces) and explain/prove yourself to them every time, so it makes sense why Frieren would try to socialize as little as possible. Also it was already noted that elves lack certain emotions and desires, like desire to reproduce. Then there's this "it's pointless to make friends since they'll die too soon anyways" mindset. Time flows differently for elves. They'd be suicidal, drunkards or insane if they were as emotional and social as humans are.
Don't know if it's due to insecurities, but I don't get why this is such a big deal to some people. In other words, I don't believe she's autistic.
Nov 18, 2023 4:49 PM
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Feb 2021
79
Reply to Sigmar-Unberogen
Here's a better question: "Why do you want her to be autistic?"

Reminded me of "omg, she's just like me" spam when "Bocchi the Rock" aired.

Anyways, we can't know for sure unless we meet other elves.

it’s kinda pissing me off that people think that everyone has to know how to deal with people the same as they do.
To elves humans must be like toddlers who know hardly anything. It can be frustrating to have to deal with them (always new faces) and explain/prove yourself to them every time, so it makes sense why Frieren would try to socialize as little as possible. Also it was already noted that elves lack certain emotions and desires, like desire to reproduce. Then there's this "it's pointless to make friends since they'll die too soon anyways" mindset. Time flows differently for elves. They'd be suicidal, drunkards or insane if they were as emotional and social as humans are.
Don't know if it's due to insecurities, but I don't get why this is such a big deal to some people. In other words, I don't believe she's autistic.
I agree with this 100%.

If every time you blinked, you lived 100 years and all your friends were long dead, would you really make the effort to get close to people? The elves in LOTR were kind of the same way, but they came off as perhaps more arrogant or snooty.

Wouldn't you be standoffish about making relationships or perhaps be arrogant if some 20-30-year-olds tried telling your 800+-year-old self what to do or something?

Fushi in To Your Eternity, although not an elf, has to deal with the same issue and shows the opposite situation. He gets close to people knowing he's eventually going to have to watch them die one way or another.

Elves are perhaps autistic in humans' eyes but to elves' eyes, humans are mentally deficient toddlers who constantly need to be told how to behave and looked after.


EDIT: I really hate this new forum system!
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