| What do you think are the lacking themes in anime stories? I believe we are missing classic horror themes such as evil possession and exorcism. There are anime such as Ghost Stories and Ghost Hunt, but they are essentially a collection of short stories crammed into an episodic series, and they lack the focus and thriller element of one central story. Organised crime is a cool and unusual concept, especially when the main characters are members of that group; Black Lagoon is a famous example, albeit with a lack of plot continuity. Suicide is a dark subject indeed and it is prevalent in East Asian countries such as Japan. Welcome to the NHK is a notable example. Suicide, however is frequently used as a plot device rather than a theme to be explored. The idol industry, another hot topic in Japan, some dark sides of the entertainment industry may be exposed; this may include dating bans, extreme diets, paparazzi, or sexual harassment. Perfect Blue is a well-known example; it had creepy fans and stalkers, though more of a psychological horror crime starring a celebrity heroine. Beauty Water is another obscure example that focuses on plastic surgery. Prison is also frequently used as a plot device to put characters through hardship and misery for a few episodes. There's Deadman Wonderland, which is just a fighting shonen with superpowers in a prison setting, and School Prison, which is a typical school ecchi with horny sexually frustrated incel main characters. Rainbow is the only serious prison anime I can think of. It sure has some classic cliche prison tropes which you see in hollywood films, but even Rainbow fails to create a visual representation of a prison due to being locked in one room most of the time and barely interacting with other prisoners, and fails to create a perceptible sense of time by showing character development instead of using a narrator and due to its rushed pacing and time skips. |
DeagoMar 15, 2022 4:50 PM
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| Organised crime just reminds me of typical "villain group" idk why tbh. There are alot of idols shows as theme not as you've mention about dark stuff. When it comes to the idea itself, for darker theme 22/7 is a little bit but not as much as you would expect, wouldn't mind 2-3 shows of showing how idols are for example struggling with nerves and stress to extreme point of tiring their own body (as for example from real life, Lisa is known to literally throwing up before the live concert, cause of stress). But the staff about sexual harrassment and papparazi would be much more fitting as it is not shown and actually about papparazi it would be good if they would show the darker side of cosplaying at My dress up darling which they don't do showing of people trying to pick pictures from angles they are not supposed to take, people trying to get a "selfie" but in the same time molesting the idol/cosplayer etc. (Idk how it works for idols, but I had a somewhat pro cosplayer in highschool class, so heard alot how dark it can be). Actually I would add here the "Historical correctly" theme, as there are some shows based on history not denying it, but most of them are not even close to be real (in some cases it is by fighting style, in others the fact that armour is nothing like in movies, sword being able to cut off everything, the fact that knight/soldier is in war 24/7, that war is decided on battles instead of sieges which rarely were ended into conquering/defeating the enemy in fights) etc. Would love a historically accurate SoL, Mystery, Militarry, Police, Politics, Action, Poetry, Romance, Comedy, Drama, Sports and Psychological themes portraying a life of a Knight or Lord by showing what such a person would do during their daily/monthly routine in life instead of showing them as unnatural fighters who can kill with "one swing" 30-40 people, the stuff they've done in their lifes is far more complex and interesting than these action stuff. Actually as I can't think of an example, I would like to see an Action, Drama, SoL anime about a mere, average soldier (no matter of what time era or if it is in fantasy), without any plot armors, stuff like this. Just showing separate stories of group/pack of soldiers by focusing on how they struggled and suffered by showing few of them surviving other not, something like Band of Brothers did but in anime style. And except these additional 2 I've mentioned I don't think I would be able to come up with anything else which in my eyes is lacking in anime. |
Zettaiken said: Organised crime just reminds me of typical "villain group" idk why tbh. There are alot of idols shows as theme not as you've mention about dark stuff. When it comes to the idea itself, for darker theme 22/7 is a little bit but not as much as you would expect, wouldn't mind 2-3 shows of showing how idols are for example struggling with nerves and stress to extreme point of tiring their own body (as for example from real life, Lisa is known to literally throwing up before the live concert, cause of stress). But the staff about sexual harrassment and papparazi would be much more fitting as it is not shown and actually about papparazi it would be good if they would show the darker side of cosplaying at My dress up darling which they don't do showing of people trying to pick pictures from angles they are not supposed to take, people trying to get a "selfie" but in the same time molesting the idol/cosplayer etc. (Idk how it works for idols, but I had a somewhat pro cosplayer in highschool class, so heard alot how dark it can be). Actually I would add here the "Historical correctly" theme, as there are some shows based on history not denying it, but most of them are not even close to be real (in some cases it is by fighting style, in others the fact that armour is nothing like in movies, sword being able to cut off everything, the fact that knight/soldier is in war 24/7, that war is decided on battles instead of sieges which rarely were ended into conquering/defeating the enemy in fights) etc. Would love a historically accurate SoL, Mystery, Militarry, Police, Politics, Action, Poetry, Romance, Comedy, Drama, Sports and Psychological themes portraying a life of a Knight or Lord by showing what such a person would do during their daily/monthly routine in life instead of showing them as unnatural fighters who can kill with "one swing" 30-40 people, the stuff they've done in their lifes is far more complex and interesting than these action stuff. Actually as I can't think of an example, I would like to see an Action, Drama, SoL anime about a mere, average soldier (no matter of what time era or if it is in fantasy), without any plot armors, stuff like this. Just showing separate stories of group/pack of soldiers by focusing on how they struggled and suffered by showing few of them surviving other not, something like Band of Brothers did but in anime style. And except these additional 2 I've mentioned I don't think I would be able to come up with anything else which in my eyes is lacking in anime. As for the historically accurate titles it's funny cause this medium does probably have the one title that actually does depict medieval combat correctly in Maria the Virgin Witch and it's historic fantasy not an actual historic title. Main reason I plan to watch it. I don't see many if any medieval live action films/shows get that right outside the medium. |
| I feel like there are a ton of anime that falls into each of the themes mentioned above. However, what there isn't are anime that handle these themes maturely. Every anime gangster is that loud mouthed yakuza stereotype that's probably just a low end crook in real life, because real criminals don't act like that (at least the high end ones don't). There are tons of idol anime, but they are all saccharine or all about hope and love and willpower instead of a realistic take. And that's really the problem in the end: The vast majority of anime are aimed at a young audience. Zettaiken said: A perfect example of this was Kingdom. The army would go into a siege, with the strategy being to get the generals of the armies to dual. Once they do, all the soldiers stop fighting and they just watch. It's one of the dumbest things I've seen and I just don't understand how anyone thinks this show has realistic strategy or tactics.that war is decided on battles instead of sieges which rarely were ended into conquering/defeating the enemy in fights) etc. |
katsucatsMar 15, 2022 6:00 PM
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Addiction, drug abuse, and even recreational use are barely in anime. Even in manga it's seldom a theme or plot point, and in live-action films it's always tied to the yakuza or something. There's a pretty sizable illegal drug trade in Japan as far as I've read, and I'm pretty sure several species of psychoactive mushrooms grow there. I know the drug laws in Japan are crazy, but a bit weird nobody seems to write any fiction about it. As much as animation can be about anything, I guess anime just isn't the medium for it. Deago said: Suicide is a dark subject indeed and it is prevalent in East Asian countries such as Japan. Welcome to the NHK is a notable example. Suicide, however is frequently used as a plot device rather than a theme to be explored. The anime—as much as I like it—is a really diluted adaptation. Both the NHK light novel and manga are much darker and more candid in ways. I think the anime also cut out all the drug use (and a suicide attempt). |
katsucats said: . Zettaiken said: A perfect example of this was Kingdom. The army would go into a siege, with the strategy being to get the generals of the armies to dual. Once they do, all the soldiers stop fighting and they just watch. It's one of the dumbest things I've seen and I just don't understand how anyone thinks this show has realistic strategy or tactics.that war is decided on battles instead of sieges which rarely were ended into conquering/defeating the enemy in fights) etc. Well I have kingdom on ptw but I've seen the clips and those stuff @BilboBaggins365 Yeah I have it in plans, I've heard about it using proper techniques of fighting, as my promotes said about it, I've seen the youtube video shown by skallagrim about this etc. Surely will watch it soon. |
ZettaikenMar 16, 2022 2:43 AM
| Exploring autism within Japan. While there have been some anime that delved into characters having disabilities being deaf or wheelchair-bound, no anime comes to mind that dabbles into characters on the autistic spectrum. Only the manga series, With the Light, has touched the subject to my knowledge. |
Deago said: The idol industry, another hot topic in Japan, some dark sides of the entertainment industry may be exposed; this may include dating bans, extreme diets, paparazzi, or sexual harassment. Perfect Blue is a well-known example; it had creepy fans and stalkers, though more of a psychological horror crime starring a celebrity heroine. Beauty Water is another obscure example that focuses on plastic surgery. There are thousands and thousands of idol anime, but the reason why there are only a few “dark” idol anime is because there is no basis for that in real life. People have prejudice when it comes to the idol industry but it’s not dark as people think, there are countless interviews with MANY idols who outright say that the industry isn’t grim and pessimistic as people think. It’s a huge misconception. Now, there are SOME examples of bad and shady stuff that do happen, but those examples are so far and few in between that it’s not a true represent of the industry. The number of anime that do contain those themes and enough to cover the amount of that happening in the industry. |
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katsucats said: A perfect example of this was Kingdom. The army would go into a siege, with the strategy being to get the generals of the armies to dual. Once they do, all the soldiers stop fighting and they just watch. It's one of the dumbest things I've seen and I just don't understand how anyone thinks this show has realistic strategy or tactics. Kingdom is basically supposed to be the Romance of the Three Kingdoms of the Warning States period. So that is what it reflects a mythical story where men can kill 50 people like nothing to a ton of focus also on the great men having legendary duels like in the novel. It's a fantasy history kinda like the Illiad in the Western world though with actual historical records. I don't think anyone in the fanbase has claimed that it's a "realistic" title. Pretty sure the mangaka would laugh at you if you implied that because it's obvious what he is going for. Still there are for instance in the much later Three Kingdoms and Tang period single duels of combat between commanders occurred though I don't know how common this was probably not very. Also just because some of the stuff is largely unrealistic doesn't mean the series lacks any form of realism. People like it in the sense of liking Legend of the Galactic Heroes for it's "tactics and politics". Just like LOTGH it also doesn't make sense outside of it's own setting but it's nice for a series to develop it's own internal logic for it's conflicts. Honestly speaking while anime and some fiction like RTK has the obvious fantasy unrealism in their military fiction most stories around war and especially historical conflicts usually are off in media. Less an anime thing more a media thing you can just find tons of crazy stuff in this medium vs the more subtle dumb things that go on in many other war films. |
BilboBaggins365Mar 16, 2022 10:42 AM
Deago said: What do you think are the lacking themes in anime stories? I believe we are missing classic horror themes such as evil possession and exorcism. There are anime such as Ghost Stories and Ghost Hunt, but they are essentially a collection of short stories crammed into an episodic series, and they lack the focus and thriller element of one central story. Organised crime is a cool and unusual concept, especially when the main characters are members of that group; Black Lagoon is a famous example, albeit with a lack of plot continuity. Suicide is a dark subject indeed and it is prevalent in East Asian countries such as Japan. Welcome to the NHK is a notable example. Suicide, however is frequently used as a plot device rather than a theme to be explored. The idol industry, another hot topic in Japan, some dark sides of the entertainment industry may be exposed; this may include dating bans, extreme diets, paparazzi, or sexual harassment. Perfect Blue is a well-known example; it had creepy fans and stalkers, though more of a psychological horror crime starring a celebrity heroine. Beauty Water is another obscure example that focuses on plastic surgery. Prison is also frequently used as a plot device to put characters through hardship and misery for a few episodes. There's Deadman Wonderland, which is just a fighting shonen with superpowers in a prison setting, and School Prison, which is a typical school ecchi with horny sexually frustrated incel main characters. Rainbow is the only serious prison anime I can think of. It sure has some classic cliche prison tropes which you see in hollywood films, but even Rainbow fails to create a visual representation of a prison due to being locked in one room most of the time and barely interacting with other prisoners, and fails to create a perceptible sense of time by showing character development instead of using a narrator and due to its rushed pacing and time skips. IT ain't an anime but a manga. Sun-Ken Rock not only has organized crime but it also has that Idol Industry. The Dark Side of it at least. |
| Go check out my latest review: https://myanimelist.net/profile/YeeYeeAss/reviews |
Hail_Lelouch said: Space anime or maybe something in the horror genre I mean currently sure but if you take into anime as a whole space is a very common setting you just usually have to go a few decades back. |
| I'm gonna say the inside of religious cults. Really going into the mentality of a member of one, maybe have them realize and try to break free. Example: Fire Force had a world-ending cult in it, and seeing its members think lighting kids on fire is a good thing, or having a 13-year-old try to cut a man in half with a sword for getting in his way... they were indoctrinated from a young age. FF is from the heroes' pov, so most characters just call the cult brainwashed crackpots at first, but eventually their motivation is revealed. Nobody just lights kids on fire for no reason. I wrote a fanfiction from the pov of a minor character in the cult, and it was really something to search the manga for clues and study real-life psychology and philosophy to figure out why they did what they did. (Doesn't mean I agree, but I understand.) |
towelgirl21Mar 16, 2022 10:54 AM
MyBodyIsReady said: Romance stories with a bad ending. Even Titanic did it. I thought we had got White Album 2 and 5cm/s? |
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Deago said: I believe we are missing classic horror themes such as evil possession and exorcism. There are anime such as Ghost Stories and Ghost Hunt, but they are essentially a collection of short stories crammed into an episodic series, and they lack the focus and thriller element of one central story. There's a ton of anime about ghost and yokai, they're just mostly not of the classic horror genre because japanese mythology and yokai are much more complex than just ghosts/horror we're used to in the west. I honestly love and prefer the japanese-style yokai stuff over the basic horror tropes you listed. Then again I don't really like horror and feel like if I've seen one exorcism movie, I've seen them all so I really don't need more of that in anime especially since I prefer the yokai stuff we get the way it is. There's still a lot of variety, from fluffy slice-of-lifes to romance to drama to thrillers. There's enough western-style horror already so I like that anime is a counterbalance to that and not more of the same. Tho Ghost Hunt was pretty cool. And there's some other shows too that kinda fit your description so it's not like it doesn't exist at all. Organised crime is a cool and unusual concept, especially when the main characters are members of that group; Black Lagoon is a famous example, albeit with a lack of plot continuity. My opinion on this is similar but different. Unlike horror I LOVE crime fiction, and there are more than a handful of anime that fit that description (from Tokyo Tribe 2 to Gangsta to 91 Days to Baccano or Durarara to JoJo Part 5 etc.... so I wouldn't say we're in desperate need for more, but I'd still watch them if they pop up. Although I do thoroughly believe that anime will never be a match for western TV shows when it comes to crime fiction. The Wire, Sopranos, The Shield, Breaking Bad or Oz are all so much better and more in-depth and larger in scale than anything anime could ever hope to put out on that topic. Partly because that kind of stuff doesn't exist in Japan to a comparable degree (the downside of having a low crime rate if you will) and partly because historically topics like drug abuse are not very anime-friendly or Tv-friendly in general in Japan. At best it's always gonna be a niche genre in anime and I'm fine with that. In part also because I'm very saturated with the western offerings that make the anime counterparts look kinda like child's play. Suicide is a dark subject indeed and it is prevalent in East Asian countries such as Japan. Welcome to the NHK is a notable example. Suicide, however is frequently used as a plot device rather than a theme to be explored. I can recommend this movie: https://myanimelist.net/anime/8142/Colorful_Movie Which really covers the topic in a unique way where it is the center of the movie and not just something that happens as a plot device. But yeah, that's the only anime I can think of that really tackles that topic. Others tackle depression and anxiety and mental health issues that might lead to suicide, but usually not suicide itself. Which I think is understandable, it's such a downer of a topic and most people watch entertainment (and anime in particular) to escape from reality and don't want to have their mood dragged down. It's also a big responsability to write about such a delicate topic. If it isn't handled well it can be very problematic and personally I'd rather not have half-assed melodramas revolving around suicide written by people who lack the sensibilities to do so properly. Hence I'm fine with it being a rare topic. With other topics you can kinda shoot your shot and see if it works out, but a bad suicie story would be much worse than most other type of 'bad' stories which probably is another reason why it's rare. Not many people dare to touch it or have the confidence they could do so in a meaningful way. The idol industry, another hot topic in Japan, some dark sides of the entertainment industry may be exposed; this may include dating bans, extreme diets, paparazzi, or sexual harassment. Perfect Blue is a well-known example; it had creepy fans and stalkers, though more of a psychological horror crime starring a celebrity heroine. Beauty Water is another obscure example that focuses on plastic surgery. There's plenty of idol anime. You make it sound like you want more stuff that exclusively focuses on the negative sides of the idol industry which won't happen cause the idol and anime industries are closely connected so one won't just mercilessly dunk on the other - the opposite is more profitable. It also is unlikely to be a good story if it just focuses on the dark side. You can do a stalker anime (it's been done, Perfect Blue) but I can't think of many other interesting stories you could tell with that premise. I'd prefer more 'normal' takes on the idol industry that don't just highlight everything that can be wrong. Idolmaster was great and had some very well done drama and not just fluff. Girlish Number had y cynical attitude towards the industry. There are plenty of anime about the idol industry and while a lot are very idealized, there are more balanced ones. Personally I'd be interested in more realistic stories about the idol industry, but the keyword is realistic. Only highlighting all the bad stuff is not realistic either. Prison is also frequently used as a plot device to put characters through hardship and misery for a few episodes. There's Deadman Wonderland, which is just a fighting shonen with superpowers in a prison setting, and School Prison, which is a typical school ecchi with horny sexually frustrated incel main characters. Rainbow is the only serious prison anime I can think of. It sure has some classic cliche prison tropes which you see in hollywood films, but even Rainbow fails to create a visual representation of a prison due to being locked in one room most of the time and barely interacting with other prisoners, and fails to create a perceptible sense of time by showing character development instead of using a narrator and due to its rushed pacing and time skips. This is very closely related to the 'crime' stuff from earlier so my opinion is fairly similar. I like it, but it usually only makes sense for the kind of 'crime' show that was mentioned earlier. If you want a story that is only about Prison (which Rainbow is only about prison for the first half either IIRC) then you're gonna have to look very hard. It's a very niche story and even in western TV, which loves crime stuff, there's only a handful of examples I can think of (Orange is the New Black and Oz being the ones that come to mind and that I can thoroughly recommend to you if you want to watch a great prison story). Personally I'll take those over anything in anime any day of the week, but I'm also fine with Prison just being an arc and not the focus of the entire anime. Ashita no Joe had a pretty good prison arc early on and it's also a central theme in Golden Kamuy that the story keeps coming back to. Check those out if you're interested. There's also Nanbaka which is a silly prison comedy like Prison School but much less ecchi that you can give a try. But for serious prison-only stories, I would just watch Oz if you haven't seen it. It's amazing. Hail_Lelouch said: Space anime Yesss abolutely this. Probably my favorite stories are hard sci-fi, space exploration kind of stories set in the not too distant future. I interested if they're less realistic and less hard sci-fi as well (e.g. Oh Edo Rocket) but I would really, really love more stuff like Planetes, Moonlight Mile and Space Brothers. Those are basically the only 3 anime I can think of for that specific subgenre (Twin Spica might be another one. And I guess there is the Spirit of Wonder: Scientific Boys Club OVA). If you haven't watched one of those 3 yet, I urge you to do so. I'm still hoping for Space Brothers to eventually get an anime sequel tho. It's been like 10 years since the last time we got a show like that and I would love for more of them in any kind of shape or form. That's easily my number #1 on the wishlist. #2 for me has always been and still is realistic, episodic slice of life about adults with cool/interesting/unique/weird jobs. Master Keaton and Gallery Fake are two of my absolute favorite anime and also more or less the only anime in that category. There's Yugo the Negotiator, which is cool tho, but not nearly on the level of those other two. Although there is Onihei as well, which I count. Or maybe even stuff like Shirobako, although that isn't quite as episodic as the stuff I have in mind. I'd even go so far as to count 'Mushishi' and 'Mononoke' to some degree, although they are not technically 'realistic' considering they're about supernatural stuff. But they treat those topics in 'realistic' ways and aren't silly or over-the-top and definitely have the episodic-ness that I'm talking about. For #3 I would like to see some actual war anime, similar to western stuff like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. Some of that exists in manga (e.g. https://myanimelist.net/manga/15279/Souin_Gyokusai_seyo) but I don't think I've seen it in anime before. All you usually get is medieval war stuff or maybe alternate history stuff like Zipang or Konpeki no Kantai, or stuff focusing more on spy stuff and the big picture when it comes to WW2. There isn't much, if anything, about how foot soldiers experienced WW2, or any of the wars leading up to that. You get a bit of the russo-japanese war in Golden Kamuy, but that's about it. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Kot_Schlyopa said: World war despite the fact that Japan was a major player in it. I agree with this, I think world war anime would be pretty awesome. cyber wars are pretty awesome. For me it will probably will be mecha, havn't had a good one in a while. 86 was the last good one. |
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| Anime do many thing poorly, i would rather watch a historic war drama from american movie rather than anime. Same goes for disaster movies, family entertainers or heist ones Anime put too much focus of psychological or emotional state of mind. So most of of them hardly take a neutral stance. There is huge difference between watching Dunkirk vs watching barefoot gen. If u want per say topics then i have not seen a single anime about election or autism (most of the time anime doesn't talk directly about any disorder or disease and rarely even name it. Its always drama of death is given more importance ) |
AdampkMar 16, 2022 1:12 PM
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
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| Actual horror. Aside from a few isolated moments during my younger years anime so far hasn't scared me. Even those more well-versed in the genre tell me anime lacks what it takes to be scary. I often hear the realism of horror does the job but that'd make horror books ineffective too, which ain't the case. I hope one day anime will have a good horror. |
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| evil possession and exorcism - Mieruko-chan, Sankaku Mado no Sotogawa wa Yoru, they may not be exactly what you're looking for, but are damn close. Organised crime - 91 days, Gangsta.and I'm pretty sure there are more. Suicide - Wonder egg Priority, Mahoutsukai no Yome, Grisaia no Kajitsu and a lot more than than anyone could expect. idol industry - I will admit, if the under belly of the Idol industry is more apparent. I'd probably watch more of that type of anime. But I truly don't know any. Except for a single scene in "Date a live". Prison - I can't remember a lot, but there are a few more, apart from the ones you mentioned. Like "Baki and Evil or Live". |
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Kot_Schlyopa said: Japan wouldn’t want to make shows about the shit they did in ww2World war despite the fact that Japan was a major player in it. |
| I guess anime needs to touch some deep psychological anime and from "psychology" I mean something dwelling with new concepts such as Gaslightning or Nature vs Nurture concepts. I have seen multiple tv-series and movies doing work with those concepts like Stranges from Hell or Mouse but that could be interesting to see done in the anime medium. |
| There's a lack of adult romance anime that aren't complete jokes (Maison Ikkoku, Yesterday wo Utatte, Senpai ga Uzai Kouhai no Hanashi ARE complete jokes). Nana is the only exception I can think of, but I'm sure there are a lot of shoujo/josei manga that never got an adaptation. |
| Biography. I believe we don't have biography themed anime that popular enough except The Wind Rises. Some themes that close to this are historical fiction like Hotaru no Haka and legend/tale/epic like Kaguya Hime and Heike Monogatari. But I don't think we can count those as a Biography theme. For example, it would be great if we have a real life story about Oda Nobunaga and all of his accomplishments from teen all the way until he died. Or they could just depict one of his biggest moment/accomplishment and make it into a movie. |
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Deago said: If you mean as for what's currently ongoing or announced soon then I never even thought of thinking this way. I take what I get, and that's it.What do you think are the lacking themes in anime stories? If, however, you mean in general, then you're asking for our biases. Whatever answer we can provide it's gonna be affected by our ignorance, our oversight, our longing and whatever else. For instance: Deago said: even if someone like you who has watched nearly every major serial possession/exorcism shows wants more than the plenty that already exist, it doesn't mean there's an actual shortage of them. I guess the problem lies with whether we want to claim objectivity or not.I believe we are missing classic horror themes such as evil possession and exorcism. Besides, some of those themes you crave for are kinda very specific. Non-episodic exorcism, suicide but not as a plot device... This is not to be snarky, but I have a hard time suffering the lack of apricot compote filled sugar glazed emmer and oats cereals, even though I love them. |
| If you're using the accepted literary definition of theme, then those aren't them. You've listed premises. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
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