| What do you think about this? In the last 2-3 years, I increasingly see how any dispute about author's decisions turns into mutual accusations instead of arguments and counterarguments on the merits. For example, no matter how or what you said about fanservice at Mieruko-chan, people would instantly accuse you of sexual problems depending on the side you were on. Then, when more information about the Girls Frontline adaptation was revealed, people started accusing each other of self-inserting and being obsessed with cute girls. I can understand some of the claims, at least on what logic they are based, but more often it seems to me that people just attack and try to shame those who have a different opinion. And that scares me quite a lot, because such a mentality can signal a return to the days when moral guardians were the main yardstick in the media. |
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Crow_Black said: People who do that really and i mean really need to go outside and touch grass. There have always been such people, but now for some reason this is becoming a very popular argument. For example, a couple of months ago they tried to shame me that I only love hentai with minors because I had Yosuga no Sora in my favorites. |
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| I guess I am too new for internet culture, I am noticing the same from the very start..... _Argument Starts _Few points _Some counter-argument _Abuse _End |
  𝓜𝓪𝔂𝓫𝓮 𝔀𝓮 𝓽𝓻𝓲𝓮𝓭 𝓽𝓸 𝓵𝓮𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪𝓼 𝓶𝓾𝓬𝓱 𝓶𝓮𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓲𝓮𝓼 𝓸𝓯 𝓸𝓾𝓻𝓼𝓮𝓵𝓿𝓮𝓼 𝔀𝓲𝓽𝓱 𝓮𝓪𝓬𝓱 𝓸𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻 𝓫𝓮𝓬𝓪𝓾𝓼𝓮 𝔀𝓮 𝓴𝓷𝓮𝔀 𝓸𝓷𝓮 𝓭𝓪𝔂 𝔀𝓮 𝔀𝓸𝓾𝓵𝓭𝓷'𝓽 𝓫𝓮 𝓽𝓸𝓰𝓮𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝔂 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 |
| Ignore and forget I guess? Anime has become a lot more popular now than it used to be so the new people flood in. |
Crow_Black said: People who do that really and i mean really need to go outside and touch grass. Agreed. I think it's because people are realising that no matter how trash it is, they can say anything. And I mean anything, without actually receiving actual consequences for it (a ban is nothing). Like I said before, I'm pretty sure the 90% of the things people say would not say it in real life. The internet is a free place to say anything, which is why I'll never say I love the internet. |
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Suhas9980 said: Ignore and forget I guess? Anime has become a lot more popular now than it used to be so the new people flood in. It can be very difficult when it becomes enough to express your opinion in any dispute and after 10-15 minutes get a label like "this is because you are a pedophile / racist / SJW / snowflake /" and so on. For example, they recently tried to shame me for wokeness because I said that female characters are often more developed than male characters because they are created as a waifus for a male audience. |
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HaiYai_Forces said: I think this problem arises when people starts taking things personally. It is very common for someone to take an outrageous opinion personally. I mean logical counter-arguments are good but people start hating on each other and pass insults. Because of this most of the time discussion goes off-topic. But what we can do, it is internet. Everyone is free to express their views. The best solution is to ignore such kind of posts. But if someone tries to attack you by quoting you in the posts you can report them or their messages instead of getting into heated arguments. There have always been people who insulted you instead of arguments. I'm more worried about the growing popularity of trying to shame people for a different opinion. For some reason, it becomes very popular to act as a moral guardian and accuse people who disagree with you for moral abuse. |
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| That's why I uninstalled the official MAL app and changed into much better alternative MAL app. |
 “Once you've been loved once and have loved once, you cannot forget it.” ― Natsume Takashi |
| Welcome to the internet. First time? |
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| I take it like this: the first person to break the argument with insults and personal attacks/accusations has officially lost, at that point you can either leave them be in their own bubble of retardation or do a little trolling and pour more fuel on the fire. |
| that’s why I don’t really engage in discussions much, I don’t have the time to waste it on an argument over anime |
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| Sounds like Twitter where people got offended over every little thing. More and more gen z flooding the Internet and MAL. |
| please understand that when i shame people - for example, saying that weebs only dislike ntr because they can't get one gf let alone two - i am 100% trolling and my opinion shouldn't be counted. i can't imagine actually attacking someone for their opinions on anime. that's just asinine |
| People probably do this because they can't think of any real points to argue as to why they think something is bad |
  「 𝕂𝕖𝕪 𝕥𝕙𝕒𝕥 𝕙𝕚𝕕𝕖𝕤 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕣𝕔𝕖𝕤 𝕠𝕗 𝕕𝕒𝕣𝕜𝕟𝕖𝕤𝕤, 𝕤𝕙𝕠𝕨 𝕞𝕖 𝕪𝕠𝕦𝕣 𝕥𝕣𝕦𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕣𝕞 」 |
| Probably because people online hate to lose an argument to someone who isn't in front of them that they can threaten them with violence for having a difference of opinion. I do not get why people need to turn discussions into arguments but I kinda feel that once someone does for no reason that is their way of admitting defeat and trying to run away with some kind of victory. I mean when someone is suddenly "You only think that because you are a racist/pedophile" how exactly do you respond because you know you are screwed... You deny it and they will turn it around into "Look at how flustered they are they know its true" or if you ignore it they look at it like "Oh they have gone quiet they know I've hit the bullseye" |
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| Well, fanservice is always a touchy issue because it has become an increasingly more divisive topic, with strong support/opposition. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: Well, fanservice is always a touchy issue because it has become an increasingly more divisive topic, with strong support/opposition. Yeah. and both sides are so radical that you can easily find creepy fanatics from both sides in almost one day. |
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| Personally, I'll only shame someone if they intentionally try to shame someone else/me or shit on a show, for the sake of shiting on a show. You can disagree with something, whatever, but if your arguments are anything along the lines of: "[REDACTED] was sooooo boring and ass" "[REDCATED] was FIRE" and I disagree with you, then yeah I'll shame you since you didn't even provide a logical argument for shitting on something to begin with. And no, shaming is not disagree with someone respectfully like "How didn't you like _____, it was a pretty good show for X reasons." Shaming is more like "You suck and x show name sucks."  |
| "Did you forget already? In my word the color "red" doesn't exist. These must be...my tears. Ever since I woke up from my coma...I think I've been waiting for this very moment. You'd do well to remember this, Maya. The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over." (Ace Attorney T&T: Bridge to the Turnabout) "I'm my worst critic." (Kendrick Lamar)  |
TheAceAttorney said: Personally, I'll only shame someone if they intentionally try to shame someone else/me or shit on a show, for the sake of shiting on a show. You can disagree with something, whatever, but if your arguments are anything along the lines of: "[REDACTED] was sooooo boring and ass" "[REDCATED] was FIRE" and I disagree with you, then yeah I'll shame you since you didn't even provide a logical argument for shitting on something to begin with. And no, shaming is not disagree with someone respectfully like "How didn't you like _____, it was a pretty good show for X reasons." Shaming is more like "You suck and x show name sucks." I talked about things like "of course you are defending this show, you are just a pedophile like everyone who likes this anime!" |
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| [quote=RobertBobert message=64750680] TheAceAttorney said: I talked about things like "of course you are defending this show, you are just a pedophile like everyone who likes this anime!" Ahh my bad I didn't realize this is what this discussion forum was about. Well in my case, I'd probably be judged for rating Rape hentai (Despite the fact that almost all hentai is Rape hentai) and for giving it a high score at that. No, I don't condone Rape hentai or agree with it, but at the end of the day, it's a form of entertainment. We watch these hentai (at least partly) for the plot, and how good it is. Not based on the morality of the whole thing. There's a hentai on my profile, that I debated putting there, called "Rape Rape Rape!" and well the title speaks for itself. The plot is just sickening; there's a 20 something year old man, that goes out of his way to seek, manipulate, and rape children. Once again, I don't condone this. But it's supposed to be sickening, since that's the story it's trying to tell. When you see the protagonist trick one of the girls into getting raped, you aren't like "Hell yeah, this is fucking hot." No. But you watch it for the pyschological horror aspect. Well at least that's just me.  |
| "Did you forget already? In my word the color "red" doesn't exist. These must be...my tears. Ever since I woke up from my coma...I think I've been waiting for this very moment. You'd do well to remember this, Maya. The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over." (Ace Attorney T&T: Bridge to the Turnabout) "I'm my worst critic." (Kendrick Lamar) |
| People who try to defend indefensible positions with circular logic/sophistical explanations deserver to be called out and made to feel like scum in my opinion. Believe it or not some positions are actually bad to hold, moral relativism be damned. You can justify anything with the use of 'logic and counter arguments' it doesn't make it right. If a certain line of thinking will eventually lead to a negative effect on others OR the self then it is one that should be challenged at every step, not left to be swept under the rug. It's how people grow. I have had some pretty obscene beliefs and likes/dislikes over the years, some things that appall me now but due to extremely harsh and unforgiving criticism on the internet and self reflection I have come to see the errors in some of my own ways. This isn't being a sheep or kowtowing, it is development. If you can't stand the heat of being called out for questionable stances then literally stay off the internet. That's meant not in a mean spirited way but for your own mental health. To expect that discussion forums are going to be echo chambers is simply unrealistic. As regards creepy fanatics on both sides of the fan servce argument just...what? There are those who support it and want more of it and those who are totally against any and all forms of it. To say there are creepy fanatics on both sides is the same as putting an = sign between them in which case they'd be no different. Whenever someone tries to pull this third line business it is always obvious on which side of any given argument they stand. Not a call out, because I don't know the OP at all but just an observation. |
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bluehighbeams said: People who try to defend indefensible positions with circular logic/sophistical explanations deserver to be called out and made to feel like scum in my opinion. Believe it or not some positions are actually bad to hold, moral relativism be damned. You can justify anything with the use of 'logic and counter arguments' it doesn't make it right. If a certain line of thinking will eventually lead to a negative effect on others OR the self then it is one that should be challenged at every step, not left to be swept under the rug. It's how people grow. I have had some pretty obscene beliefs and likes/dislikes over the years, some things that appall me now but due to extremely harsh and unforgiving criticism on the internet and self reflection I have come to see the errors in some of my own ways. This isn't being a sheep or kowtowing, it is development. If you can't stand the heat of being called out for questionable stances then literally stay off the internet. That's meant not in a mean spirited way but for your own mental health. To expect that discussion forums are going to be echo chambers is simply unrealistic. As regards creepy fanatics on both sides of the fan servce argument just...what? There are those who support it and want more of it and those who are totally against any and all forms of it. To say there are creepy fanatics on both sides is the same as putting an = sign between them in which case they'd be no different. Whenever someone tries to pull this third line business it is always obvious on which side of any given argument they stand. Not a call out, because I don't know the OP at all but just an observation. How did you turn a statement about absurd accusations into a statement that all the participants in the discussion are fanatics? It's like if I tell you that I am tired of black bandits and you say "what, are all black bandits?" |
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| I've found in the past few years people are more willing and brazen enough to accuse eachother of being pedophiles. I agree with Null about what he said regarding accusations like that. It's like pointing a loaded gun at someone, you only do it if you intend to kill them. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
RobertBobert said: LostSpectre said: Well, fanservice is always a touchy issue because it has become an increasingly more divisive topic, with strong support/opposition. Yeah. and both sides are so radical that you can easily find creepy fanatics from both sides in almost one day. literally right here. Your words. Creepy fanatics on both sides of the fan service argument. That itself is an 'absurd accusation'. This is the real essence of this entire thread by my hunch. |
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bluehighbeams said: RobertBobert said: Yeah. and both sides are so radical that you can easily find creepy fanatics from both sides in almost one day. literally right here. Your words. Creepy fanatics on both sides of the fan service argument. That itself is an 'absurd accusation'. This is the real essence of this entire thread by my hunch. You think out my words for me. I criticize the absurd arguments, but I do not say anything about the identity of the parties at all. |
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| Kids have invaded the fandom. Now you'll see the wrath of puberty and testasterone, which ideally should have been directed towards getting some chicks. |
Anime was it's best 20000 years ago, when cavemen drew art with real depth. Modern anime is all garbage. I miss great old days of anime. |
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