| A lot of Asian fashionista love to wear black contacts to make their iris seems bigger, and it usually turned out to make one's look cuter as well. I don't think this is very much a trend among westerners. I myself have done this several times for years. I also wear big glasses with black frame during my anatomy class, not only for protecting my eyes from the formaldehyde, but also it somehow looks cute on me (I don't have any vision impairment at all though). Have you people ever try or enjoy doing this as well? |
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| Not really... I think I'm cute enough without them (─‿─) |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| You probably should worry more about breathing in the toxic formaldehyde gas. I'm near sighted. I actually technically need glasses but choose not to wear them. I look okay in glasses but not really my style. I cant be bothered with wearing contacts all the time either but id like to have some contacts just for different looks to occasionally wear. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
traed said: Well we all used surgical masks during the class of course. But I think some extra protection might be nice as well~You probably should worry more about breathing in the toxic formaldehyde gas. I'm near sighted. I actually technically need glasses but choose not to wear them. I look okay in glasses but not really my style. I cant be bothered with wearing contacts all the time either but id like to have some contacts just for different looks to occasionally wear. |
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| @Desolated Im no expert on hazardous materials but unless that is well diluted formaldehyde and it's decently ventilated that really doesn't sound like adequate protection. I could be wrong though but worth looking into. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| I know few girls who were wearing the 0 glasses cause they were looking nice in it and also one guy who wear them as he look more handsome/smart in glasses, personally I don't wear glasses/eye contacts to look more smart/handsome whatever I just wear them as I have -2 and -2,5 eyesights so I don't see alot without them x). |
Zettaiken said: So you don't wear those that looking fancy? I mean, there are minus glasses that looks fancy and all that stuff.I know few girls who were wearing the 0 glasses cause they were looking nice in it and also one guy who wear them as he look more handsome/smart in glasses, personally I don't wear glasses/eye contacts to look more smart/handsome whatever I just wear them as I have -2 and -2,5 eyesights so I don't see alot without them x). |
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Desolated said: Zettaiken said: So you don't wear those that looking fancy? I mean, there are minus glasses that looks fancy and all that stuff.I know few girls who were wearing the 0 glasses cause they were looking nice in it and also one guy who wear them as he look more handsome/smart in glasses, personally I don't wear glasses/eye contacts to look more smart/handsome whatever I just wear them as I have -2 and -2,5 eyesights so I don't see alot without them x). nah I don't like wearing fancy thing especially that most of them are very expensive, mine would be very similar to glasses which Aizen is wearing in the beginning soul society arc in bleach but my (the plastic around the glass idk how you call it in english) isn't that thick and big as he has |
| No, I wear glasses because I need them. Have been wearing glasses ever since I was 1 year old. |
If life ain't just a joke Then why are we laughing? If life ain't just a joke Then why am I dead? |
koito777 said: So you're basically say that you're typically not a fashion type of person?I wear them because I have to not because I want to. |
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| Yeah I wear glasses just because I like the way I look with them on. I got 20 20 vision but glasses makes me look more professional and I tend to see that people treat me better with glasses on. |
| If there's a hole there's a goal-Master Oogway |
| Nah, I do wear glasses, but not to look cuter |
| no, and I hope I never need to wear glasses. Those fake glasses worn for fashion looks too big for my face |
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| I do wear eyeglasses that happen to be quite big this time but I wear them only because I have like -7 eyesight. I literally can only see maybe 10cm without my sight being blurry. Also my eye doctor said I can't wear contacts so that's off limits. But no, absolutely not a fashion thing for me even though I like how my glasses look and I think I look better with glasses than without. |
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| i already look cute without them and i hate eyeglasses |
| Haven't wear any contacts or big eyeglasses though i have worn glasses to make myself look more stylish once, i won't do it again |
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| i have -6 since 30 years ago so i began wearing glasses at 5. Never tried contact lenses until i was 17 because i resumed playing basketball again, and this time i didn't want to wear a pair exactly designed for sports as i probably did before. Not that there was so much of a difference, because i hardly ever played official games in the youth minor leagues in both the experiences. As a result, i wore contacts also for my last two years of high school, also for a obviously failed attempt to look a little better. Starting with late 2010, i began wearing dark colored -6 contacts for rare occasions, glad to discover they actually existed because of the unsufferable legend that light colored eyes are better. Also, by then, i started dying my hair blond since more than two years much to the annoyance of my parents because of all those cringe "YoU lOoK gOoD jUsT tHe WaY yOu ArE!!!!111!!!11!" speeches. In early 2013 i bought by mistake some brown contacts that weren't -6 as expected but nevertheless used them gladly while still having glasses, and later in the same year i finally changed these ones too, choosing a black and thicker pair after i kept the ugly thin and fragile previous version since the summer of 2000. At a anime convention in early 2015 i actually lost those glasses on a friday afternoon and couldn't buy a new pair (an almost exact copy of course) until tuesday, so i passed an entire weekend only with contacts or pretty much blind, but still went to work and to basketball matches meanwhile. These glasses survived a lot of metal concerts and mosh pits, but sometimes i decided to replace them with contacts as i did with my 3rd time watching Korn, and also Slayer or Slipknot. Also, some coworkers when i worked at McDonald's never saw me without colored contacts for some reasons. Nowadays, i ditch glasses almost only for cosplay reasons considering the state of live concerts in italy, but glad that at least anime cons have been allowed again. |
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| No. These kind of stuff don't even look good on me |
| شقایق، اینجا من، خیلی غریبم |
| i'm definitly ctuer with glasses but i also need them for medical reasons |
| That's one way to show everyone how shallow you are. |
Sheklon said: how? Explain. People's outer appearance are important as well because that's what others first impression would be formed.That's one way to show everyone how shallow you are. |
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| No, I hate the prospect of wearing either. |
"Molly Ringwald" out right now - check my Linktree!  |
Desolated said: Sheklon said: how? Explain. People's outer appearance are important as well because that's what others first impression would be formed.That's one way to show everyone how shallow you are. By choosing to wear glasses or contacts without a medical need and strictly to look better, you are showing that you prioritize appearance over function. That's pretty much how most people define shallow. Prioritizing the outward presentation rather than the core function or value of something. But, personally, it doesn't matter if you decide to do that. It's not like I'll judge a person's entire character based on how much they care about their looks. Some people can have pretty vain concerns and yet still think about other subjects too. Your last point is exactly what I meant, actually. People form their first impressions on the first look, so giving away that you care about something irrelevant like wearing non-functional glasses shows that you care too much about appearance. |
Sheklon said: The thing is, most people do care about it.Desolated said: how? Explain. People's outer appearance are important as well because that's what others first impression would be formed. By choosing to wear glasses or contacts without a medical need and strictly to look better, you are showing that you prioritize appearance over function. That's pretty much how most people define shallow. Prioritizing the outward presentation rather than the core function or value of something. But, personally, it doesn't matter if you decide to do that. It's not like I'll judge a person's entire character based on how much they care about their looks. Some people can have pretty vain concerns and yet still think about other subjects too. Your last point is exactly what I meant, actually. People form their first impressions on the first look, so giving away that you care about something irrelevant like wearing non-functional glasses shows that you care too much about appearance. Either it to make themselves feel better, or others to have a better impression of them, or some other thing, it would still generally increase their overall prospects in life. Whether it be chance of getting a job, relationships, daily vibe, etc. |
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Desolated said: Sheklon said: The thing is, most people do care about it.By choosing to wear glasses or contacts without a medical need and strictly to look better, you are showing that you prioritize appearance over function. That's pretty much how most people define shallow. Prioritizing the outward presentation rather than the core function or value of something. But, personally, it doesn't matter if you decide to do that. It's not like I'll judge a person's entire character based on how much they care about their looks. Some people can have pretty vain concerns and yet still think about other subjects too. Your last point is exactly what I meant, actually. People form their first impressions on the first look, so giving away that you care about something irrelevant like wearing non-functional glasses shows that you care too much about appearance. Either it to make themselves feel better, or others to have a better impression of them, or some other thing, it would still generally increase their overall prospects in life. Whether it be chance of getting a job, relationships, daily vibe, etc. Well, people are often contradictory. The thing is, I've actually recently known a girl in college who started using contacts that made her eyes look green (their natural color was brown), and most people didn't really think it was cool and they judged her for that. That will, of course, vary depending where you are and which social circle you're surrounded with, but I think in most cases, the average folk doesn't really like when someone is "too out there" with their appearance. I mean, even tattoos are still controversial in most places that aren't urban centers. |
| I have but it was only once. it isn’t for me. |
Sheklon said: Desolated said: how? Explain. People's outer appearance are important as well because that's what others first impression would be formed. By choosing to wear glasses or contacts without a medical need and strictly to look better, you are showing that you prioritize appearance over function. That's pretty much how most people define shallow. Prioritizing the outward presentation rather than the core function or value of something. So, by definition, to be shallow is to prioritize appearance over functionality? There'd be no point in strictly emphasizing it being shallow then, as it is merely a remark on other people's preferences. It would be akin to saying people who like to wear tuxedos in certain events, or people who pick out fashionable clothes while shopping to look good, are shallow. Except shallow has negative connotations. The two aren't even mutually exclusive; one can often ask for custom designed frames after evaluating their eyesight with an optometrist for example. |
OpticflashSep 26, 2021 2:02 PM
Opticflash said: Sheklon said: By choosing to wear glasses or contacts without a medical need and strictly to look better, you are showing that you prioritize appearance over function. That's pretty much how most people define shallow. Prioritizing the outward presentation rather than the core function or value of something. So, by definition, to be shallow is to prioritize appearance over functionality? There'd be no point in strictly emphasizing it being shallow then, as it is merely a remark on other people's preferences. It would be akin to saying people who like to wear tuxedos in certain events, or people who pick out fashionable clothes while shopping to look good, are shallow. Except shallow has negative connotations. The two aren't even mutually exclusive; one can often ask for custom designed frames after evaluating their eyesight with an optometrist for example. Like you said, it has a negative connotation. When you point out that someone is acting shallow, you obviously mean that they're causing a bad impression. Someone wearing a tuxedo is probably going to an event where people will be using similar clothes, or to a costume party. Otherwise, if you use a tuxedo in a family meeting or someone's casual birthday in a barbecue, obviously that will draw some attention that won't be very positive. Same logic applies to the glasses example: it makes all the sense for someone who actually needs them to care about how they look, since it's gonna affect their social presentation nearly 100% of the time (assuming they don't frequently take off their glasses). As for wearing fashionable clothes in general, is that necessary or called for? If not, then you're doing it because you simply want to look good for others and care too much about your appearance. I don't think that's complex to understand. I'm a bit of a cynic, so favoring simplicity resonates with me to some extent. But then again, you do you. I don't care if you want to walk out wearing a tuxedo and cool sunglasses everywhere. Yet, like most people, I'll probably assume you're somewhat shallow in that sense. |
Sheklon said: Opticflash said: So, by definition, to be shallow is to prioritize appearance over functionality? There'd be no point in strictly emphasizing it being shallow then, as it is merely a remark on other people's preferences. It would be akin to saying people who like to wear tuxedos in certain events, or people who pick out fashionable clothes while shopping to look good, are shallow. Except shallow has negative connotations. The two aren't even mutually exclusive; one can often ask for custom designed frames after evaluating their eyesight with an optometrist for example. Like you said, it has a negative connotation. When you point out that someone is acting shallow, you obviously mean that they're causing a bad impression. Someone wearing a tuxedo is probably going to an event where people will be using similar clothes, or to a costume party. Otherwise, if you use a tuxedo in a family meeting or someone's casual birthday in a barbecue, obviously that will draw some attention that won't be very positive. Same logic applies to the glasses example: it makes all the sense for someone who actually needs them to care about how they look, since it's gonna affect their social presentation nearly 100% of the time (assuming they don't frequently take off their glasses). As for wearing fashionable clothes in general, is that necessary or called for? If not, then you're doing it because you simply want to look good for others and care too much about your appearance. I don't think that's complex to understand. I'm a bit of a cynic, so favoring simplicity resonates with me to some extent. But then again, you do you. I don't care if you want to walk out wearing a tuxedo and cool sunglasses everywhere. Yet, like most people, I'll probably assume you're somewhat shallow in that sense. It's not about whether the examples make sense from your definition; it is that denoting one's fashion sense as something bad (from the usage of the word "shallow") is ludicrous. There is no good reason why this should be seen as a bad thing. Usually when we use the word shallow we mean, when it comes to dating, that one doesn't factor in personality at all, not that they choose apparel that looks good or fashionable to them. Yes, most men wear tuxedos to formal events; however they are not doing it for comfort, but for appearance. In many workplaces, you do not even need to put on a suit but many choose to do so to look a certain way. For ordinary clothes, no it is not necessary but a big part of the fashion industry and society in general is to design clothes that would be trendy for years. Not to mention that for many people, especially women, it is a confidence booster to wear clothes they think makes them look good. You have a bad impression of people because they want to dress nice? Ok. |
Opticflash said: Sheklon said: Like you said, it has a negative connotation. When you point out that someone is acting shallow, you obviously mean that they're causing a bad impression. Someone wearing a tuxedo is probably going to an event where people will be using similar clothes, or to a costume party. Otherwise, if you use a tuxedo in a family meeting or someone's casual birthday in a barbecue, obviously that will draw some attention that won't be very positive. Same logic applies to the glasses example: it makes all the sense for someone who actually needs them to care about how they look, since it's gonna affect their social presentation nearly 100% of the time (assuming they don't frequently take off their glasses). As for wearing fashionable clothes in general, is that necessary or called for? If not, then you're doing it because you simply want to look good for others and care too much about your appearance. I don't think that's complex to understand. I'm a bit of a cynic, so favoring simplicity resonates with me to some extent. But then again, you do you. I don't care if you want to walk out wearing a tuxedo and cool sunglasses everywhere. Yet, like most people, I'll probably assume you're somewhat shallow in that sense. It's not about whether the examples make sense from your definition; it is that denoting one's fashion sense as something bad (from the usage of the word "shallow") is ludicrous. There is no good reason why this should be seen as a bad thing. Usually when we use the word shallow we mean, when it comes to dating, that one doesn't factor in personality at all, not that they choose apparel that looks good or fashionable to them. Yes, most men wear tuxedos to formal events; however they are not doing it for comfort, but for appearance. In many workplaces, you do not even need to put on a suit but many choose to do so to look a certain way. For ordinary clothes, no it is not necessary but a big part of the fashion industry and society in general is to design clothes that would be trendy for years. Not to mention that for many people, especially women, it is a confidence booster to wear clothes they think makes them look good. You have a bad impression of people because they want to dress nice? Ok. I have no idea why you decided to mention dating culture when "shallowness" is not inherently related to it, but okay. Let's be honest folks here, do you really think that most people are thinking logically and concisely about the material consequences and benefits of their actions when they behave in a certain way to improve their outward appearance? Naturally, it is an unconscious impulse for aesthetics, not something rational per se. Hence, someone that cares too much about appearance will appear as less rational and more simple minded in their decision. This is definitely a reductive view, but then again... it's the first impression you can and will cause to others, so I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Well, you just described the social function a tuxedo has. It doesn't mean you have to like it or that it's imperative or even highly recommended to wear one in any given situation. It's the result of our thoughtless nature that lusts for aesthetics, but since it's established as social fact, you just have to play along with it nowadays. Back to myself... I don't have any bad or special opinions about individuals that want to dress nice. I just think it's extremely silly for any human to desire something shallow just because they want to impress others. And, yet, that's how humans are. |
Sheklon said: Opticflash said: It's not about whether the examples make sense from your definition; it is that denoting one's fashion sense as something bad (from the usage of the word "shallow") is ludicrous. There is no good reason why this should be seen as a bad thing. Usually when we use the word shallow we mean, when it comes to dating, that one doesn't factor in personality at all, not that they choose apparel that looks good or fashionable to them. Yes, most men wear tuxedos to formal events; however they are not doing it for comfort, but for appearance. In many workplaces, you do not even need to put on a suit but many choose to do so to look a certain way. For ordinary clothes, no it is not necessary but a big part of the fashion industry and society in general is to design clothes that would be trendy for years. Not to mention that for many people, especially women, it is a confidence booster to wear clothes they think makes them look good. You have a bad impression of people because they want to dress nice? Ok. I have no idea why you decided to mention dating culture when "shallowness" is not inherently related to it, but okay. Let's be honest folks here, do you really think that most people are thinking logically and concisely about the material consequences and benefits of their actions when they behave in a certain way to improve their outward appearance? Naturally, it is an unconscious impulse for aesthetics, not something rational per se. Hence, someone that cares too much about appearance will appear as less rational and more simple minded in their decision. This is definitely a reductive view, but then again... it's the first impression you can and will cause to others, so I don't even know what point you're trying to make. Well, you just described the social function a tuxedo has. It doesn't mean you have to like it or that it's imperative or even highly recommended to wear one in any given situation. It's the result of our thoughtless nature that lusts for aesthetics, but since it's established as social fact, you just have to play along with it nowadays. Back to myself... I don't have any bad or special opinions about individuals that want to dress nice. I just think it's extremely silly for any human to desire something shallow just because they want to impress others. And, yet, that's how humans are. The reason I mentioned "shallow" in terms of dating is because it is most often used in reference to dating. But more than that. when we call someone shallow (or label a value in a negative way) is because the underlying values (or lack thereof) are associated with negative consequences. For example, calling someone shallow in the dating scene (here the negative connotation is more important than the word) means they care little about the personality of someone else. What if that someone else is abusive? Likes to hurt animals? Is an asshole towards others? Lacks empathy and cannot imagine themselves in another's shoes? If someone neglects this, they are asking for trouble. The entire purpose of labeling someone as shallow in reference to dating is to shun this aspect and encourage them to pay more attention to the person they are dating. Whereas you are using the word shallow because someone wants to wear clothing that looks good. What are the negative consequences of this exactly? Not everything people do is for a "rational" purpose and certainly many acts cannot even be quantified using a "rational" criteria as decisions are usually a result of people's values. There is no rational criteria when choosing to watch one movie over another or playing baseball over cricket. Likewise, there is no rational criteria in choosing what color or style of shirt to pick. Your remark that someone valuing appearance "too much" will appear less rational or more simple minded is absurd because there is no correlation nor trade-off. They are not opposing concepts. The trade-off for wearing stylish clothing is nothing. It is akin to saying young, blonde-haired women are probably stupid. The point I am trying to make is that calling the individual shallow for wanting to dress nice is ludicrous because you are scolding them for no good reason. If your issue is with humanity in general valuing appearances (I would still disagree because appearance is not inherently a trade-off to anything else), then I would not have said anything. But you are scolding the individual; in this case the OP. It would be exactly the same as calling someone shallow for wearing a suit to work when it isn't required in the workplace. Your original remark is more along the lines of "Hey Tom, I can't believe you're so shallow that you would wear a suit to work" than "I think humanity is pretty shallow to value appearances". |
OpticflashSep 26, 2021 4:07 PM
Opticflash said: If someone neglects this, they are asking for trouble. The entire purpose of labeling someone as shallow in reference to dating is to shun this aspect and encourage them to pay more attention to the person they are dating. Uh... not really. That's your generous attitude, if anything. Plenty of people will just use "shallow" as an insult and not in the best intents towards the target person. Besides, you just gave some examples of negative consequences of being shallow. But that's not the main thing. Someone being shallow means that they give more relevance to surface aspects more than "what really matters"; therefore, they are acting simple-minded-ly by not acknowledging the irrelevance of physical traits regarding the actual value of someone or something. Which is why someone that comes across as shallow causes a bad impression, since it makes it seem like they care more about looks than character, personality, function and so forth. There's a reason why your average guy that brags about going out with 30 different girls a week is deemed shallow in a pejorative way. Not to say that OP's case is as blatant and asinine as this, of course. Opticflash said: The point I am trying to make is that calling the individual shallow for wanting to dress nice is ludicrous because you are scolding them for no good reason. If your issue is with humanity in general valuing appearances (I would still disagree because appearance is not inherently a trade-off to anything else), then I would not have said anything. But you are scolding the individual; in this case the OP. It would be exactly the same as calling someone shallow for wearing a suit to work when it isn't required in the workplace. Your original remark is more along the lines of "Hey Tom, I can't believe you're so shallow that you would wear a suit to work" than "I think humanity is pretty shallow to value appearances". Ah. Well, I never really meant to target OP as a person, but I can see why you'd read it that way since I used the word "you". And I admit I might have been jumpy in my line of thought, since I was thinking about how people start doing small things like that for looks and end up with plastic surgeries and other dangerous procedures. But either way, the follow up comments should have cleared that along the way. And, in fact, even using contacts if you don't need them can be bad for your eyes if you don't follow proper hygiene and maintenance, though that's a given for anyone wearing them. |
Sheklon said: Opticflash said: If someone neglects this, they are asking for trouble. The entire purpose of labeling someone as shallow in reference to dating is to shun this aspect and encourage them to pay more attention to the person they are dating. Uh... not really. That's your generous attitude, if anything. Plenty of people will just use "shallow" as an insult and not in the best intents towards the target person. Besides, you just gave some examples of negative consequences of being shallow. But that's not the main thing. Someone being shallow means that they give more relevance to surface aspects more than "what really matters"; therefore, they are acting simple-minded-ly by not acknowledging the irrelevance of physical traits regarding the actual value of someone or something. Which is why someone that comes across as shallow causes a bad impression, since it makes it seem like they care more about looks than character, personality, function and so forth. There's a reason why your average guy that brags about going out with 30 different girls a week is deemed shallow in a pejorative way. Not to say that OP's case is as blatant and asinine as this, of course. It matters not the intent of the person using the word shallow. The point is the underlying principle behind the terminology is the same, and that principle is there are negative consequences for neglecting other aspects. The examples you have given illustrates this clearly, also. For example, neglecting personality in dating scene usually doesn't lead to anything good, and that is why we call the guy who goes out with 30 different girls a week as being shallow. This is irrespective of whether we use it as an insult or whether we want to help the guy. If somebody values appearance, they are not necessarily being shallow. If they only value appearance, then they are shallow. To call someone shallow for wanting to dress nice makes absolutely no sense because it is not a trade-off to anything such as "functionality" of the apparel nor does such a trade-off (if it exists) have negative consequences for the individual. |
| I don't know whether I should laugh or sigh on how much we're derailing the thread, as it seems you're far more sensitive than OP himself... so I'll just try to sum it up in this post. The trade-off is time. You have a limited amount of time you can dedicate to anything if you also want to care about other things. I.e.: whether I look cuter with glasses or contacts or not is meaningless to me, so I would never consider this issue were it not for other people approaching the subject. Therefore, I was surprised that OP and other people would even care about it. Them doing so show that they spend a considerable amount of their time thinking about their appearance, even regarding silly and inconsequential things. Opticflash said: The point is the underlying principle behind the terminology is the same, and that principle is there are negative consequences for neglecting other aspects. According to who, exactly? I've never seen anyone but yourself say that the word "shallow" only applies to scenarios where there's a negative consequence. If you want to explore definitions, then grab any dictionary. Lacking depth of character, intellect, or meaning; superficial. not showing serious or careful thought disapproving: not caring about or involving serious or important things lacking depth; superficial Being shallow is considered a negative trait by itself. It doesn't have to involve further consequences than what's already prescribed by the definition. It's a judgment of value, if you will. For instance, you could easily end this debate by considering my opinion shallow and calling it a day. |
Sheklon said: I don't know whether I should laugh or sigh on how much we're derailing the thread, as it seems you're far more sensitive than OP himself... so I'll just try to sum it up in this post. The trade-off is time. You have a limited amount of time you can dedicate to anything if you also want to care about other things. I.e.: whether I look cuter with glasses or contacts or not is meaningless to me, so I would never consider this issue were it not for other people approaching the subject. Therefore, I was surprised that OP and other people would even care about it. Them doing so show that they spend a considerable amount of their time thinking about their appearance, even regarding silly and inconsequential things. Time is not a trade-off because people value different things. For example choosing to spend an evening at the cinema is not shallow simply because they could have done something more "productive" in your view. In the case of fashion, it is not even a trade-off because one can look for something functional and good looking at the same time (on top of the fact that I've explained multiple times that they are not opposing aspects). The difference between the "shallow" used to describe someone who only cares about appearance in the dating scene and your usage here is that in the former their value can hurt them in the long run and in the latter they are doing something they value. You seem to not understand this. The reason I'm "sensitive" is because you are essentially berating people who care about how they look for no good reason. Sheklon said: Opticflash said: The point is the underlying principle behind the terminology is the same, and that principle is there are negative consequences for neglecting other aspects. According to who, exactly? I've never seen anyone but yourself say that the word "shallow" only applies to scenarios where there's a negative consequence. If you want to explore definitions, then grab any dictionary. (1) Lacking depth of character, intellect, or meaning; superficial. (2) not showing serious or careful thought (3) disapproving: not caring about or involving serious or important things (4) lacking depth; superficial Being shallow is considered a negative trait by itself. It doesn't have to involve further consequences than what's already prescribed by the definition. It's a judgment of value, if you will. For instance, you could easily end this debate by considering my opinion shallow and calling it a day. Because words have associations with them and common usages that your dictionary.com would not convey to you, especially when you are using it to put down someone. In every one of those definitions denotes the forgoing of something of importance. That's the whole point of there being a negative consequence. If I called your opinion shallow, it would be because your opinion lacked any depth so as to judge people based only on superficial reasons such as their preferences. However, what is the underlying aspect here? The underlying aspect is that your judgement of others for superficial reasons is fundamentally problematic, in your relationships with others and towards others. That is why I would call your opinion shallow. However, since choosing an outfit that looks good is not problematic in any way, it is not shallow because it is a preference or value to the individual. There is no concept of what is "good" or "bad" or "important" in this case. |
Opticflash said: (on top of the fact that I've explained multiple times that they are not opposing aspects). How kind of you. It's not like I said "people can have pretty vain concerns and yet still think about other subjects too" in my second post in this thread, right? Opticflash said: The difference between the "shallow" used to describe someone who only cares about appearance in the dating scene and your usage here is that in the former their value can hurt them in the long run and in the latter they are doing something they value. You seem to not understand this. Or, perhaps, you just don't think that caring a lot about appearance is that bad (i.e. have relevant effects on an individual). Let's take back the example of the guy bragging about his fake sex life, or even the "stupid blonde girl" that dyes her hair to go with a trend and acts in a stereotypical (I guess you could say "Karen") way. Is their desire to externalize a strong presence and rely on their superficial aspects not linked to compensating their faults in other aspects at all? Don't they sacrifice even the slightest bit of intellect or time that could be invested into other traits by wasting their time trying to achieve futile goals? Opticflash said: The reason I'm "sensitive" is because you are essentially berating people who care about how they look for no good reason. No. I'm not as patronizing as yourself. I'm not trying to force anyone to conform to my beliefs. Opticflash said: Because words have associations with them and common usages that your dictionary.com would not convey to you, especially when you are using it to put down someone. In every one of those definitions denotes the forgoing of something of importance. That's the whole point of there being a negative consequence. Cool. I could have been more clear. Those quotes are not from the same dictionary, neither they are the first entry with a literal meaning. They already refer to the common, social usage of the word. They don't imply that being shallow is a flaw because it harms the individuals themselves. They point that being shallow is perceived as a flaw, because... it's not a quality. You don't go beyond surface value, therefore you don't offer deeper and presumably better (as in honed) skills, thoughts and actions to others. So I'll ask you to refer to this again: According to who, exactly? I've never seen anyone but yourself say that the word "shallow" only applies to scenarios where there's a negative consequence. If you have any references, please do share. Otherwise, I'll just assume you have a pretty bad case of solipsism (or a fallible theory of mind, if you wish) resulting from a SJW syndrome. Your passionate speech and your use of the word "problematic" does give me that vibe of the average Reddit user, plus trying to protecc OP when he never asked you to. Apperances do tell you something about someone, don't they? I do hope I'm wrong. Maybe your text interpretation is not good today. Maybe you don't particularly like me and you can't see through that right now to understand my points. Or maybe you care too much about looking like the good guy and "win" this internet argument (by using a personal definition of shallow) because that's important and totally not shallow. |
Sheklon said: Opticflash said: (on top of the fact that I've explained multiple times that they are not opposing aspects). How kind of you. It's not like I said "people can have pretty vain concerns and yet still think about other subjects too" in my second post in this thread, right? You said By choosing to wear glasses or contacts without a medical need and strictly to look better, you are showing that you prioritize appearance over function. That's pretty much how most people define shallow. Prioritizing the outward presentation rather than the core function or value of something. You are quite clearly painting a contrast when there isn't one. Sheklon said: Opticflash said: The difference between the "shallow" used to describe someone who only cares about appearance in the dating scene and your usage here is that in the former their value can hurt them in the long run and in the latter they are doing something they value. You seem to not understand this. Or, perhaps, you just don't think that caring a lot about appearance is that bad (i.e. have relevant effects on an individual). I do not think it is bad, no. Sheklon said: Let's take back the example of the guy bragging about his fake sex life, or even the "stupid blonde girl" that dyes her hair to go with a trend and acts in a stereotypical (I guess you could say "Karen") way. Is their desire to externalize a strong presence and rely on their superficial aspects not linked to compensating their faults in other aspects at all? Don't they sacrifice even the slightest bit of intellect or time that could be invested into other traits by wasting their time trying to achieve futile goals? No. They are not doing anything "shallow" simply because they choose to dye their or look good in certain clothing. Whatever their personality is (their "Karen" attitude) is a separate issue altogether and has nothing to do with how shallow wanting to dress a certain way is. They are not inherently substitutes. Their attitude is a completely separate, unrelated, uncorrelated aspect that they need to address. There is no trade-off between working on letting go of their "Karen" attitude and wanting to dress nice. In addition, what is 'futile' to you may not be to another. Imagine two friends shopping for clothes. One of them says "I think I'll buy this skirt, it looks really nice!". Your remark is akin to the other friend saying "Wow Jessica, I can't believe you're so shallow that you would choose that skirt over something more comfy like those track pants." It makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, it is rude and condescending. Sheklon said: Opticflash said: The reason I'm "sensitive" is because you are essentially berating people who care about how they look for no good reason. No. I'm not as patronizing as yourself. I'm not trying to force anyone to conform to my beliefs. You were clearly putting down OP (and others) with your first post That's one way to show everyone how shallow you are. I'm just calling you out on it. Sheklon said: Opticflash said: Cool. I could have been more clear. Those quotes are not from the same dictionary, neither they are the first entry with a literal meaning. They already refer to the common, social usage of the word. They don't imply that being shallow is a flaw because it harms the individuals themselves. They point that being shallow is perceived as a flaw, because... it's not a quality. You don't go beyond surface value, therefore you don't offer deeper and presumably better (as in honed) skills, thoughts and actions to others. So I'll ask you to refer to this again: If you have any references, please do share. Otherwise, I'll just assume you have a pretty bad case of solipsism (or a fallible theory of mind, if you wish) resulting from a SJW syndrome. Your passionate speech and your use of the word "problematic" does give me that vibe of the average Reddit user, plus trying to protecc OP when he never asked you to. Apperances do tell you something about someone, don't they? I do hope I'm wrong. Maybe your text interpretation is not good today. Maybe you don't particularly like me and you can't see through that right now to understand my points. Or maybe you care too much about looking like the good guy and "win" this internet argument (by using a personal definition of shallow) because that's important and totally not shallow. I do not know you, have no opinion of you, and have nothing against you. All I am doing is telling you that your remark makes no sense and is insulting for no good reason. I cannot procure any references for you because that is something you have to work out. However, you can give me any example of the usage of the word "shallow" with reference to people (other than your original post) and I will give you the underlying aspect of what is important or what the negative consequences are. The whole purpose of calling someone shallow is to tell them they are not considering other important factors. That is the negative consequence. However, since fashion sense is not a substitute for anything and is entirely dependent on preferences, the notion of other important factors does not exist. |
OpticflashSep 26, 2021 8:52 PM
| @Opticflash alright, let's make this less autistic (for both parts) and put this simply. The main topic here is clearly not the lexeme "shallow", but its connotation. You claim it has a negative connotation; fair enough, I acknowledge it. You point that I used a negative word to express my opinion regarding a group of people acting in a determined way; I acknowledge that. You say I can't express my negative opinion because...? I'm not allowed to? This is a public thread. Yeah, my first comment might be a bit of a troll comment (welcome to the internet), but it was in the right space for being posted. Furthermore, OP politely asked for an explanation, so I actually took a step back and actually explained my POV. We both acknowledged each others' opinions and moved on with our lives. You can't, for some reason. I wouldn't tell Jessica that she is shallow, because she is not a public thread in an open forum for open discussion and publicly sharing your opinion. Yet, this is the case here. Seriously. This is the dumbest discussion I've had in this website. Edit: and no, I don't think my opinion of what's shallow or not translates to absolute truth. I did, however, remark that many people will have the same impression that I could have, given the right contexts. |
Sheklon said: You say I can't express my negative opinion because...? When did I say this? You have every right to criticize the OP (as long as you aren't breaking the rules), just like how I am exercising my right to criticize your statement. |
Desolated said: @Sheklon The thing is, it's a pretty popular fashion style here. Moreso in east Asian countries. So putting that on won't make you so standoff to the point of being weird. I wasn't aware of that. So you're Asian? Is that common everywhere in your country or just in some regions? |
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